S04.E09: The Watchers On The Wall 2014.06.08

[Mya Stone]

Episode Synopsis: 

 

Jon Snow and the Night's Watch face a big challenge.



Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into a potential spoiler you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[Mya Stone]

I expected either Pyp or Grenn to take Donnel Noye's place; I did not expect to lose them both.

That battle was amazing. Fucking epic work. It felt like a mini-movie. Color me impressed.

[Haleth]

It was very well choreographed. Man, I hate that both Grenn and Pyp died.

Shoot, are they going to end the season with Stannis's arrival?

[Mya Stone]

I believe so, @Haleth - I imagine he'll come to save them in the next episode.

[Izzyboy]

Ugh, sucks to see both Pyp and Grenn fall.  They've been two of my favorite supporting characters in the series.  At least they both went out well.

 

Overall I was impressed and happy with the episode.  I'm sure it'll draw a lot of comparisons with "Blackwater" since those are the only two single location episodes to date, but I think it held up well.  John Bradley was particularly good I thought.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Izzyboy

[Mya Stone]

Agreed on John Bradley. He was stellar. As was Edd. Heck, Kit was great tonight too, and I haven't always been his biggest fan.

Can I just say I can not wait until Slynt gets the Ned Stark treatment? Gods, I hate him.

And who knew I would end up liking Thorne?

[sunflower]

 

I expected either Pyp or Grenn to take Bowen Marsh's place; I did not expect to lose them both.

 

The sad thing is as book readers we know whoever holds the gate is going to die, but was it really necessary to kill them both?  Sam wasn't even there yet, right?  So, of course, of the two weaker ones, they have to kill Pyp.  Ugh.  

 

The ending came too quick.  It felt good in parts, but too much was going on.  In hindsight, they really should have had the attack from the south in, like, the third episode.  Thank the gods that Tormund survived.  That would have been too crazy a change.  Love that guy.

 

Too much Sam, some of those lines he had with Pyp?  Drag.  Boring.  Pyp has to die so Sam can be brave, but not really?  I'm sick of him.

 

Jon Snow did look awesome though.  Book 5, here we come!

Edited June 9, 2014 by sunflower

[Haleth]

One thing I did like a lot is that Sam wasn't constantly cowering the way he does in the book. He actually had some fairly brave moments. Big improvement to his character.

[benteen]

That was how it ended?!

 

Er...sorry about that.  The quick ending aside, this was a really impressive hour of television.  Not as good as Blackwater storywise but definitely surpassed it in terms of action.  Great job!

 

I was sorry to see Pyp and Grenn die too but at least they went out in a good way.

 

Loved getting to see Peter Vaughn as Aemon...that man never disappoints.

 

Owen Teele also shined as tonight and his fight with Tormund was awesome.  We didn't see Ser Alliser die so I would assume he'll live to see another day.

 

Good job by Kit Harrington...the character of Jon Snow really shined.  I did love how he utilized some dirty fighting against the Thenn.  Same with John Bradley and I'm glad he was part of this battle.  Loved him dropping an F bomb.  He might have been the MVP tonight.

 

Will miss Rose Leslie a lot.

 

Some really impressive action pieces and FX.  Nothing with the Giants disappointed, especially the one who fired an arrow all the way up to the top of the Wall.  That was awesome!

 

Next week is going to be a series-long 66 minutes and they are going to need it...that episode has a LOT to pack in.

Edited June 9, 2014 by benteen

[Pete Martell]

I was surprised at no Stannis. I hope we still get to see him in battle again, as I enjoyed that in Blackwater.

 

Did Alliser being carried away remind anyone of Stannis in Blackwater?

 

The early stuff with all the talk about Sam's love life didn't do a lot for me (although it was nice to see so much of Aemon, and I'm glad he didn't die), but the action was first-rate. 

 

I knew Ygritte was going to die, but as someone who has loved Rose Leslie's work from her first scene, it bummed me out. I wish the show hadn't had that stuff with the boy early this season as it gave the whole thing away somewhat. 

 

I don't think her heart was really in it anyway (the battle, I mean).

 

The guy who plays Alliser gave one hell of a performance tonight. I will give him praise. 

 

Janos sucks. Was he this much of a coward in the books? I was afraid he was going to attack Gilly when they were alone together. 

 

I had a feeling Grenn and Pyp were going to die, and that's why we'd seen more of them lately, but it still hurt, especially Grenn, who was one of the hottest guys on the show. 

 

I was kind of glad for a break from the other characters, although I just hope this doesn't mean we're going to get less of Stannis at the Wall next week (if that happens) since there are going to be 20 other stories.

[Izzyboy]

And who knew I would end up liking Thorne?

 

I know right?  They did well in showing that even though he's kind of a prick, he really does have the Night's Watch's best interests at heart.  We may not agree with his methods, but he's just doing what he feels he has to do.  And he was a badass in the field of battle...

 

Janos Slynt on the other hand...HATE.

[AzureOwl]

So the wildling arrows don’t come anywhere near the top of the Wall, but the giants’ arrows do! Well played Show, well played.

[Avaleigh]

I thought it was great. Shocked that we lost both Grenn and Pyp. Loved Alliser's fighting and had my hands over my mouth in worry as he was battling Tormund. I almost didn't know who to root for in that one on one so I was kind of glad to see Alliser survive and loved Tormund being the last man standing later on.

I wanted to scream when they didn't use an archer to take out that giant who was trying to breach the gate. Actually, there were a few times when I was wondering why they weren't making better use of their archers when it came to large targets like the giants and mammoths.

No Mance? Did I miss him?

[elzin]

I hated it. Worst episode of the series for me. I have acute testosterone poisoning from that hour-ish of tv.  I didn't hate all of it; I cried several times and I was very, very impressed by the effects and cinematography.  Just overall it was just fight-fight-fight and that's not my favorite aspect of the show/books.  I don't know why I liked Blackwater more, but I did.

[Pete Martell]

I hated it. Worst episode of the series for me. I have acute testosterone poisoning from that hour-ish of tv.  I didn't hate all of it; I cried several times and I was very, very impressed by the effects and cinematography.  Just overall it was just fight-fight-fight and that's not my favorite aspect of the show/books.  I don't know why I liked Blackwater more, but I did.

 

Blackwater had more emotional stuff and less battle. The Cersei/Sansa and Cersei suicide scenes are among my favorites of any season.

 

I preferred the battle scenes in this episode to the ones in Blackwater, as I cared more, but the other scenes weren't quite as strong.

[benteen]

Blackwater had more emotional stuff and less battle. The Cersei/Sansa and Cersei suicide scenes are among my favorites of any season.

 

I preferred the battle scenes in this episode to the ones in Blackwater, as I cared more, but the other scenes weren't quite as strong.

 

I enjoyed both.  The Watchers on the Wall has better wall-to-wall action but Blackwater has it beat due to the character moments and getting to utilize more of the regular cast.

Edited June 9, 2014 by benteen

[Izzyboy]

I wanted to scream when they didn't use an archer to take out that giant who was trying to breach the gate.

 

Actually I think it was either Grenn or the guy next to him (the one that was scared) that mentioned the giant was already as full of arrows and it hadn't even fazed him.  Makes the fact that they were able to stop him all the more impressive.

[Shriekingeel]

That one long single shot of the entire panorama of the battle at the south gate was very impressive. Disappointed they couldn't fit Stannis in.

[MichaelaRae]

I just struggle with finding anything to do with the Wall or Beyond the Wall interesting. It has been the least interesting aspect of the books or the show for me. But the action scenes were impressively done.

[Independent George]

So the wildling arrows don’t come anywhere near the top of the Wall, but the giants’ arrows do! Well played Show, well played.

 

That was a really nice touch, especially for readers (like me) who have always been somewhat annoyed by the wall's scale.

 

That was a well shot and choreographed episode, but it lacked the emotional resonance of Blackwater. What would have made it work is if they'd spent the previous two seasons making us somewhat sympathetic to the Wildlings, instead of making them precisely the kind of barbarians the Kingdoms treat them as. 

[Avaleigh]

I have to admit too that as much as I enjoyed this episode, I'd be lying if I didn't also admit that my favorite part of tonight's viewing experience was the preview for next week's episode.

I definitely prefer the Battle of the Blackwater episode overall if we're comparing, but I thought the actual fighting in the Battle for Castle Black was better. For me the non battle scenes in Blackwater were a lot stronger than the non battle scenes in tonight's episode, and I think that's a part of the difference.

I wonder who Maester Aemon once loved? Not that I expect to find out but I wish he'd at least said which house or kingdom she was from.

ETA

I also think there was more humor in Blackwater and that always helps. Blackwater had "fuck the king", drunk!Cersei, Stannis barely blinking over the wildfire (I still get a kick out of his reaction to one of his men explaining why attacking after the wildfire display probably wouldn't be a good idea and that hundreds would die. ), Tyrion's "Let's go kill them" line, etc.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Avaleigh

[benteen]

I have to admit too that as much as I enjoyed this episode, I'd be lying if I didn't also admit that my favorite part of tonight's viewing experience was the preview for next week's episode.

I definitely prefer the Battle of the Blackwater episode overall if we're comparing, but I thought the actual fighting in the Battle for Castle Black was better. For me the non battle scenes in Blackwater were a lot stronger than the non battle scenes in tonight's episode, and I think that's a part of the difference.

I wonder who Maester Aemon once loved? Not that I expect to find out but I wish he'd at least said which house or kingdom she was from.

 

I kept worrying Aemon was going to say the girl was his sister.  The Targaryens do LOVE incest, you know. ;)

 

Completely agree with your assessment.  Blackwater was better because of the character interaction, emotional scenes, and great use of the main cast.  But Watchers on the Wall has them beat in terms of pure action.  They have gotten even better since Blackwater when it comes to shooting a scene.

 

Although color me shocked that they didn't manage to squeeze in some unnecessary nudity tonight...

 

A moment I loved...the Night's Watch cooks (I would assume Hob was among them) making an impressive stand.  I wish Tormund and Ed could have gotten some funny lines but both were badass tonight.

Edited June 9, 2014 by benteen

[magdalene]

I don't know. The episode was well executed but something was missing for me. I think it's because in general I just care less about the Northern  and the Wall story line.

 

For me also the momentum was broken from last episode.

[snowblossom2]

I was not impressed. Maybe because as someone else said, it lacked emotional resonance.

 

I am also a little pissed that they didn't include Stannis. A whole episode to the battle of the wall and it's not finished? They only did half?! There's too much they already have to cover in the season finale, they should have wrapped up the wall storyline this episode.

[ihartcoffee]

Jon Snow was so sexy in this episode, when Ygritte died in his arms I teared up. She hesitated, like her dad said if she wanted him dead he'd be dead. She could have easily shot him.

I was sooooo sad about Pip and Grenn! Such adorable characters!

Can't wait for next weeks episode! In the previews for it I caught a glimpse of Tyrion peering thru a hole..... What does he see? I am so curious how they will show it going down.

[screamin]

I was...a bit bored. It was fairly obvious that the kid was going to get Ygritte since the beginning of the episode, and I was waiting impatiently for him to DO IT ALREADY long before the episode ended.

[Pete Martell]

I don't know. The episode was well executed but something was missing for me. I think it's because in general I just care less about the Northern  and the Wall story line.

 

For me also the momentum was broken from last episode.

 

For me the King's Landing story this season has never really had momentum. It's been a lot of things happening, then Tyrion sitting in jail pondering life, then a lot of things happening. I don't know if they did that deliberately so that the cuts away from the Lannister group would have less impact, or if it's just that that Cersei/Jaime scene derailed much of what I was feeling in the first two episodes, but it's not one of those stories where I mind lengthy scenes (or even entire episodes) which focus elsewhere.

 

I liked the break from the other stories (if I had to see another week of Arya and The Hound marching in a circle I may have thrown a  shoe at the TV), but I wish they'd cut down a little on the earlier love life scenes in the episode, so we could see more of the battle aftermath. 

[Wanducoppee]

Ok I actually made an account for this hot mess travesty of an episode. What the purple Frick was that?! Where was the beautifully masterminded strategic withdrawal and the blowing the stairs? Why was the north attack and the south attack the same battle? I adored that book scene (this is book talk, right?) with the straw nights watch and the moving people to safety up the wall (though they killed moles town in the show, so who would they move...) and the hubris of the wildlings all bunched up on the stairs certain of their victory, then- bam!

Sure, Jon Snow and his badass sword fighting is cool and all, but not half as cool as the strategic defeat of the wildlings south of the wall by a handful of men!

We were robbed. If they want to cut stuff, cut the torture porn and sex scenes, but that castle black defense was one of the best chapters of any of the books, IMO.

[Grammaeryn]

I just loved the giants and the mammoth. I knew they would be killed but we had a couple kick ass scenes at least! Also, it was really nice to see one of Ned's sons fight and lead. We have been missing that Stark (Snow) fight all season. It's ridiculous Stannis didn't show up this episode but with all the Blackwater parallels, that would have made him the Tywin.

[Pete Martell]

Jon Snow was so sexy in this episode, when Ygritte died in his arms I teared up. She hesitated, like her dad said if she wanted him dead he'd be dead. She could have easily shot him.

I was sooooo sad about Pip and Grenn! Such adorable characters!

Can't wait for next weeks episode! In the previews for it I caught a glimpse of Tyrion peering thru a hole..... What does he see? I am so curious how they will show it going down.

 

Yeah, I don't think Ygritte wanted to be there. She talked about vengeance, but she was extremely low-key during the battle. I think she would have killed him if she'd had the chance, but I think she would have killed a lot of herself in the process, which she knew. I think that's also why Jon likely would have never killed her (maybe if she was threatening Sam or Ghost).

 

In many ways Ygritte was a stereotypical trope, the feisty lass, mostly defined by her relationship with Jon, and by his manpain. Yet Rose Leslie always made a meal of the character and gave her so many shades. She added such an undercurrent of sorrow as the role went along. Ygritte was one of the most complex characters on the show. I will miss her, even though we've barely seen her this season.

[benteen]

Oh yeah, I forgot.  Jon had them burn the stairwell in the book in order to stop them.  And yeah, would have loved to have seen those straw archers too.

Edited June 9, 2014 by benteen

[am1994]

I really enjoyed this episode, the fight sequences and special effects were quite stunning, I liked this battle even more then Blackwater.  I really was expecting to see Stannis this episode, but maybe he will show up in the finale.

 

And I just knew Ygritte would die in Jon's arms and she would whisper to him, "You know nothing Jon Snow".  It was very emotional and I applaud both actors.  Both of them thinking back to their interlude in the cave as she died made me sniffle.  Very well done death scene.

 

I'm looking forward to the finale, I thought I saw a quick glimpse of Drogon right at the end of the promo.

[Pete Martell]

That was a really nice touch, especially for readers (like me) who have always been somewhat annoyed by the wall's scale.

 

That was a well shot and choreographed episode, but it lacked the emotional resonance of Blackwater. What would have made it work is if they'd spent the previous two seasons making us somewhat sympathetic to the Wildlings, instead of making them precisely the kind of barbarians the Kingdoms treat them as. 

 

I haven't gotten to that point in the books yet, but I feel like on the show, they mostly sympathize the Wildlings who are allies to the main characters and don't interact with other Wildlings (Osha, Gilly). As a result the WIldlings who are together are more dangerous and less easy to relate to. I guess with the red-bearded guy still around, and the shot of Mance in the previews, we will see more sympathetic Wildling material to come. The group we saw was mostly shown marauding, and Ygritte's story was about vengeance more than losing her home.

 

I guess that's why they had the scene of Ygritte sparing Gilly and her baby in the last episode.

 

I don't really know how to feel about the Wildlings. I do think the Night's Watch group are more heroic, overall, but then, every non-asshole in the NW other than Jon, Edd, Sam, Aemon, and that archer kid died tonight :(

[Izzyboy]

Almost forgot to mention that I'm glad we had a Ghost sighting tonight! I actually cheered outloud when he burst from his pen and started mauling people...lol

[Pete Martell]

Almost forgot to mention that I'm glad we had a Ghost sighting tonight! I actually cheered outloud when he burst from his pen and started mauling people...lol

 

I got angry at Sam when he released Ghost. I was so scared. I'm glad nothing happened to him. 

 

Seeing him ripping throats out was very satisfying. I wish he'd paid Janos Slynt a visit.

[Blue Nocturne]

I wonder who Maester Aemon once loved? Not that I expect to find out but I wish he'd at least said which house or kingdom she was from.

 

I thought they were hinting at Olenna being his great love. I know book-wise they are probably too far apart in age, but I can see the show implying that they are of the same generation.  It kind of makes sense show wise--the woman he loved rejected him so he joined the Maesters, then later the Night's Watch.

 

One thing I love is how this episode made explicit what was being hinted all season about Slynt and Thorne.  Both are Jon's enemies and there is plenty of mutual animosity.  Thorne though, once he saw what was out there, was man enough to admit to Jon he was wrong.  And Jon, to his credit was gracious enough to acknowledge that Throne as leader had to make the tough decisions that could very well be wrong, but still have to be made.  They can hate each other, but still count on each other in when it counts. Then Thorne got to give the rousing speeches and fight like a badass. Slynt meanwhile blubbered about his command of the City Watch and hid with the woman and child.

 

I was a bit disconcerted at how much relief I felt when we cut back to Gilly and Slynt and saw that there was no rape, no attempted rape, no evidence that Gilly had to fight him off or anything.  Just Slynt curled in a corner taking a nap like the coward he is.  Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful the show decided not to even hint at a rape even though everything about the circumstances seemed to point to one happening (frightened previously sexually victimized girl locked in a room with a sleazy coward with an overblown sense of his manliness, no one would probably interrupt them for hours), but I don't think my mind show default to "oh she's getting raped" so often.

 

Was that the smallest opening credits in the history of the show?  Only five names: Jon, Sam, Gilly, Ygritte, and Tormund.  

 

I think once I get over my disappointment at the lack of Stannis showing up and wondering how the hell the pacing is going to work for the finale, I'll appreciate this episode more.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Blue Nocturne

[loki567]

That really shouldn't have been an episode nine, even though Neil Marshall did a fantastic job as expected. Jon/Ygritte and ESPECIALLY Sam/Gilly are two of the weaker storylines in GoT. They shouldn't have made up half the episode. The battle's filled up of a bunch of minor characters that show has never done a particularly good job of distinguishing. Although I admit Grenn had some really good moments.

 

Even though I realize they spent most of their budget on this episode, it should have been episode five. We get Stannis' rescue this episode and we get the election this season. Jon and Stannis's storylines would have really benefited from it. 

[Independent George]

I haven't gotten to that point in the books yet, but I feel like on the show, they mostly sympathize the Wildlings who are allies to the main characters and don't interact with other Wildlings (Osha, Gilly). As a result the WIldlings who are together are more dangerous and less easy to relate to. I guess with the red-bearded guy still around, and the shot of Mance in the previews, we will see more sympathetic Wildling material to come. The group we saw was mostly shown marauding, and Ygritte's story was about vengeance more than losing her home.

 

That's exactly the problem, though - it's kind of a cheat to make the Wildlings only sympathetic when they're on the same side as the protagonists. Jon's story in S3 arc should have been a Donnie Brasco on ice - where we can't but help humanizing the wildlings even if we consciously understand them to be dangerous and brutal. I'm not a book purist, but turning the Thenns into Cannibals instead of being a cultural offshoot of the Northerners really robs the story of a lot of depth that we needed. (I always imagined the Thenns as being a Northern clan driven into exile after losing to the Starks thousands of years ago).

 

I really like Show!Alliser Thorne; he's so much more compelling than the book version. Speaking of protagonist-centered morality, that's one of the things that annoyed me about Jon - he gets on with all of the protagonists (including Stannis), but is at odds with all of the antagonists (Thorne, Slynt, etc.). I like Thorne being a loyal man of the Watch even if he's a jerk; it's so much more interesting to me that way. 

[benteen]

They changed (simplified the backstory I geuss) Aemon's background a little bit by noting he was heir to the throne instead of an unlikely heir.

 

Show Thorne is definitely a much better character than Book Thorne.  He's an ass but a compelling one who is right about certain things.  His return was one of the many good things about Season 4.  Although Grenn got the giant-killing, Thorne does basically get the rest of the Donal Noye role.

[jjjmoss]

Was that the smallest opening credits in the history of the show?  Only five names: Jon, Sam, Gilly, Ygritte, and Tormund.  

By more than half. Each other season has had an 11-main-character episode: You Win or You Die, Blackwater, Rains of Castamere.

 

I believe the first two held the record for fewest POV chapters adapted from with 3 - Ned/Jon/Dany with original stuff for Tywin&Jaime and Theon&Osha, which makes it much more splintered than the latter's Davos/Tyrion/Sansa. And now we have Jon/Sam.

Edited June 9, 2014 by jjjmoss

[that one guy]

I thought most of this one was really well done, but I did miss the collapsing staircase. What I liked about that in the book was that it provided a clear and believable explanation for how the Watch prevailed. Here, the whole time it looked like they were losing the battle at the south gate, and then after Jon killed Styr it just . . . ended and they had won. I don't get it. I do think that making the two attacks simultaneous was an improvement, simply because if the first attack in the book had succeeded, the Tormund would have had to hold the gate until Mance arrived. This way, all they had to do was open the gate and reinforcements would pour it - it's a much better plan. So the show has given us smarter Wildlings but dumber Night's Watch.

[LilWharveyGal]

 

I had a feeling Grenn and Pyp were going to die, and that's why we'd seen more of them lately, but it still hurt, especially Grenn, who was one of the hottest guys on the show.

 

You ain't never lied!

[benteen]

The two-pronged attack was a lot smarter.  You're right too about the staircase...the NW going scored earth in their own castle was how they one.

 

The only issue I really had though was pointing out last week that there were only 102 men left.  Seriously, the Wildlings must have killed more than half of them in this battle alone.  They've acknowledged the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch on the show but are those castles completely empty now?  Or have they been retconned away?  Eastwatch was fighting a group led by Rattleshirt in the books and Bowen Marsh had just fought a bloody battle at the Skull Bridge.

Edited June 9, 2014 by benteen

[Haldebrandt]

So... This was a exactly what expected and feared.  Visually impressive, emotional bland, not episode 9-worthy

 

Been saying this for months, feeling part vindicated, part disappointed.

 

I'd like to believe that non-readers were at the edge of their seats because they don't know the outcome but I'm seeing mostly mixed reactions so far.

 

Anyway, the good:

- Really impressive direction for a TV show.  That tracking shot may be the best thing the show has ever done in that regard.

- Green's last stand was truly impressive.

- Perhaps because I'd already heard Stannis wouldn't show up, I didn't miss him.

- Meat Cleaver Dude.  Who the fuck was that.

 

Not so good:

- No amount of gee-wheez can ever make up for a subpar story.  The Wall just hasn't been very interesting.

- D&D seem to think that having people standing around reciting horrific odds and prospects is scary.  It's not.  It's tedious a fuck.  Much of the dialog reminded me of that awful Bronn/Hound scene in Blackwater.  And the less said about the various pronouncements on love, the better.

- Kit Harrington is the worst actor on this show.  Good grief, man, your first love just died.  Awful.

 

How I wish GRRM had written this episode.  Or that the battle were shorter.  Or that it weren't episode 9. Or that...

[Skeeter22]

I think it was a mistake to kill Pyp and Grenn when there are so few recognizable characters in that storyline. The episode was mostly well done, but there just isn't enough emotional investment for it to merit the Blackwater treatment. I don't think Jon and Sam are strong enough characters in the show to anchor an entire episode. Especially since they didn't even get through the entire battle. Mance and Stannis ex machina would have filled it out better.

[AuntiePam]

This is the first time that I've preferred the book fight to the show fight.  For one thing, it's not so damn dark in the book -- I can see who's doing what to who.  What I liked best about the episode was after the fight, two men sitting close together on the steps, blink and you'd miss 'em.  I also liked not seeing the fight with the giant at the gate, just seeing the aftermath.

 

Did not like Ygritte hesitating, getting shot by the kid, then dying in Jon's arms and the dying words.  Fan service, not realistic, sappy, trite.  It diminished the character, and I'd be interested to know what Martin thought about it. 

[Pete Martell]

I thought most of this one was really well done, but I did miss the collapsing staircase. What I liked about that in the book was that it provided a clear and believable explanation for how the Watch prevailed. Here, the whole time it looked like they were losing the battle at the south gate, and then after Jon killed Styr it just . . . ended and they had won. I don't get it. I do think that making the two attacks simultaneous was an improvement, simply because if the first attack in the book had succeeded, the Tormund would have had to hold the gate until Mance arrived. This way, all they had to do was open the gate and reinforcements would pour it - it's a much better plan. So the show has given us smarter Wildlings but dumber Night's Watch.

 

I was surprised at the end of the battle, surprised that they'd won. This was partially because I was expecting Stannis. I do wonder how non-spoiled people felt about the end of the battle.

[NJ RadioGuy]

I'm thinking that going forward, Thorne will replace Bowen Marsh ("For the watch"), but that before then, he will support Jon Snow for his actions in this battle. As such, we may be spared the drawn out Lord Commander's election process, Sam's shuttle diplomacy between Eastwatch and the Shadow Tower and all the attendant nothingness that accomplishes. For a 10-hour/year adaptation that's probably best, too.

 

Glad we got a "husband to bears" shoutout, though still no HAR! nor any "member" talk. I want the legend of his member, godsdamnit.

 

Count me as one who loved how Grenn the lads went out, holding the gate. I was shouting my vows at the TV over top of them.

 

Glad Dolorous Edd survived so he can complete his block-fetching duties--which will be even sweeter after seeing Slynt in action tonight, but I would have loved hear him tell Grenn the story of Watt and the Bridge of Skulls. So perfectly Eddelicious.

[Pete Martell]

So... This was a exactly what expected and feared.  Visually impressive, emotional bland, not episode 9-worthy

 

Been saying this for months, feeling part vindicated, part disappointed.

 

I'd like to believe that non-readers were at the edge of their seats because they don't know the outcome but I'm seeing mostly mixed reactions so far.

 

I thought there would be a negative reaction, as Jon really isn't a big fan favorite, so I've been surprised at the mixed response (pleasantly surprised, as I don't think it deserves a negative reaction). I do wonder if it will become more negative as the week passes. 

 

What gets me with, "If Dany/Tyrion/Arya had been here this episode would have been good" is that if Ygritte had been in more of the episodes this season, then I think the story would have had more impact, at least if we saw more POV beyond her being angry and killing people. They really cut this story to the bone for other stories this season, until this episode. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Maximum Taco]

That was fun I guess. It still felt lacking though, probably because it was just wall to wall action, and a couple small death scenes in the middle.

 

I fully understand why they didn't include Stannis tonight though, this had to be a Night's Watch victory, having Stannis come in and save everyone would've felt a bit hollow and unsatisfying. Now that they managed to hold through the night on their own, it'll be ok for him to come in next episode and sweep up the remaining wildling hoard.

 

I kind of also expected Grenn to fill Donal Noye's shoes, but losing Pyp was rough. Now we're just left with a bunch of faceless Night's Watchmen. But I kind of understand what's going on here, with Stannis and Co storming into the Castle Black story it's kind of necessary to clear out some of the more recognizable faces to make way for Team Baratheon.