Carlton Gebbia: She'll Put a Spell on You

[Lisin]

Carleton... I just can't. I don't understand her. Her house is literally covered in crucifixes so I do not understand how Kyle asking if she was Catholic at the beginning was a very clearly pointed insult.

[KarenClassic]

My favorite Carleton story line is when she was mad at Kyle because she had a dream that Kyle was talking about her behind her back, and decided it must have happened in real life.  I believe this was also a ridiculous plot involving Phoebe in an episode of Friends. 

[Lisin]

Oh my god! You're right, Phoebe is definitely mad at Ross because of a dream! Carleton is so awful!

[film noire]

Carleton, the leather queen -- of skin, not sex -- spent her whole season in search of a storyline and imo, never quite found one. Sex room, sex toys, dry-humping her own mother-in-law (not that dry-humping anybody *else's* MIL would be more palatable); a version of Wicca that even Endora would reject; Pentagram-gate interspersed with random rages about labeling, bigotry (while Carleton herself was busy labeling everything in her sightline).  Plus homework with her child, to provide some sense of normalcy, I assume. (Shot all to hell when she told her own daughter "Tell them your mama is hawt" -- wtf, say again? Am I watching "To Catch a Predator" all of a damn sudden?) It was one of the weirdest "one and done" housewife arcs ever for me.  (And I would love to have a season of The Real Housewives of One and Done; how frantic and manic would *that* show be?)

Edited March 27, 2014 by film noire

[SPLAIN]

Beef Jerky Carlton is one of the biggest hypocrites ever to grace my screen. After seeing that picture of her with that thing called Allison DuBois, it makes total sense to me why she hates Kyle.

[msblossom]

Agreed.

I have to wonder if Allison DuBois planted the story about Mauricio cheating with the tabloids and then got Carlton to pitch it discreetly to the producers?

Edited March 28, 2014 by msblossom

[BuddhaBelly]

I've started pretending she's not on the show.

[CottlestonPie]

Carlton is seriously a worthless addition to the cast.  She's just oh so edgy and dark and wicca and sexual and EDGY.  She just loves the fee-male bod-ee.  And here I thought Pam (Dana) was the most wanna be try hard that had ever appeared on the show.  Carlton's pool party looked so low-rent and sleazy compared to say, the one Adrienne did, which also featured people with body paint and had sexual undertones, but whereas Adrienne's was more sensual and was done at night (as a party like that should be), Carlton's reminded me of a low-rent porn star party.  And how DARE Kyle comment that her bathroom smelled!  Although Joyce saying, "Ew, somebody did a poopy" cracked me up.

Edited March 28, 2014 by TheGirlses

[rustyspigot]

 

and was done at night

I never thought about that, but yeah. A sexy brunch pool party doesn't work too well. Carlton's response: REALLY?

[BogoGog24]

I hope Carlton is gone after this season. (Although the producers might make her stick around since she hates Kyle) I just don't get this woman. According to her, she got angry with Kyle about the Catholic comment because it was a build-up of similar comments that we didn't see. I just feel like she is overly sensitive when it comes to anything concerning her religion. The fact she has an alliance with Brandi is even worse. If she was gone next season, I would not miss her. Sorry. I'm sure she can probably be a nice person in real life but I just don't like her on this show. The whole season would be her and Kyle fighting all the time.

[Lura]

From the tone of Carlson's blog on Bravo, it sounds like she's already been told that she won't be returning.  I have my own theory about Carlton.  I think she was an Andy creation who did and said everything that Andy wanted -- i.e., a tramp.  When Bravo received so much flack about her, I think she was told just to be herself, and she changed horses in the middle of the stream, becoming the more likeable Carlton of the later episodes.  However, by that time, she'd lost so much of the audience that she couldn't recover.  I think the ratings were down, and Andy was desperate, and that's when the Carlton idea was born.

[BogoGog24]

How did Carlton change or become "more likable"? She appeared the same throughout the whole season, I didn't notice any drastic changes in her personality. If anything, she probably got more nasty as the season progressed, maybe because she thought it would help her stick around for next season. She got particularly nasty at the dual birthday party. 

[Lura]

I noticed quite a few people saying the same thing under her blog, but that doesn't make us right.  I'm not at all a Carlton fan, but I did noticed a decided tapering off of the f-word, a greater tendency to listen rather than to interrupt, and a softer side (with Lisa) that I hadn't seen before.  At the Reunion, she was quiet, even when Yolanda grabbed her arm twice and told her not to talk! 

Speaking of Yolanda, it appears that all of her blogs have been deleted.  Does that mean that she has been, too?

[AKA...CJ86]

I think the only thing I noticed is her style improved towards the end of the season.  And outside the show, minus Bravo appearances where she still occasionally did her edgy thing like the Premiere Party and her WWHL appearance(s).

 

If the firings are true…I'll miss her and Joyce.  I don't like one and done's, I think they should at least get two seasons, no matter how hated they ended up.  

[Gumby]

Carlton, if you are looking for a pool boy, Romeo just got eliminated from ANTModel.

 

 

If the firings are true…I'll miss her and Joyce.  I don't like one and done's, I think they should at least get two seasons, no matter how hated they ended up.

I know. It feels like there are more than a couple of 'Wives I have loathed the first season and liked the next. Like maybe Camille, and LuAnn... and... hm.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Gumby

[AKA...CJ86]

I think Joyce and Carlton maybe would have worked better as friends.  After Joyce's "feud" with Brandi cooled she was lost in the shuffle while Carlton was largely a non-factor, really grasping for anything in her "feud" with Kyle.  It also hurt both ladies missed a few events between them, but I thought at least Joyce did mesh well with the other ladies.

[vrocotamy]

From the tone of Carlson's blog on Bravo, it sounds like she's already been told that she won't be returning.  I have my own theory about Carlton.  I think she was an Andy creation who did and said everything that Andy wanted -- i.e., a tramp.  When Bravo received so much flack about her, I think she was told just to be herself, and she changed horses in the middle of the stream, becoming the more likeable Carlton of the later episodes.  However, by that time, she'd lost so much of the audience that she couldn't recover.  I think the ratings were down, and Andy was desperate, and that's when the Carlton idea was born.

 

I agree with your theory insofar as it relates to Carlton's faux-edginess in the early episodes - the sex toys, gratuitous F-bomb, lingerie shopping with MIL, Brandi make outs, etc. But Carlton revealed her complete hypocrisy as the season went on in other ways. She criticized Kyle to no end for killing a bee, and then wolfed down a beef cheeseburger with all the toppings. She reminded us that religion and politics are off limits topics, while she couldn't shut up about her religion. She criticized everyone for believing she practiced "black magic", and then threatened Joyce with "black magic" when Joyce said she didn't believe in it. She impugned Joyce for talking about her husband's penis size and then revealed her husband was hung like a donkey in a talking head. She puts bare-breasted women at the front door of her party and then calls out Kyle for making a joke about Lisa's nipples. Moreover, she puts forth her eccentricities - e.g. the Catholic crosses and confessionals while being a practicing Wiccan - and then can't deal with people who she barely knows characterizing her in that light. Although I have mixed feelings about Kyle, Kyle's rationale for questioning whether or not Carlton had a Jewish star - Carlton is completely liberal about the use of religious symbolism, to the point of having confessionals in her house - was totally valid. Kyle should not have called her an anti-Semite, but Carlton's offense was so overblown that Kyle's overblown response makes sense. Although Carlton was performing her "edgy persona" by the end of the season, her fundamentally unappealing character came out blazing. Brandi cannot often be trusted to be a voice of reason, but I completely agreed with Brandi in the reunion that Carlton simply didn't like Kyle and should have left it at that, instead of trying to dress it up with imagined offenses (at least I remember Brandi saying something along those lines...)

Edited October 29, 2014 by vrocotamy

[cooksdelight]

Each of these women are faxed or emailed their scripts before an episode is filmed. It's laid out who is appearing with who, where, what they are going to talk about, and to take it from there. I think that perhaps Carlton was told to be edgy like Brandi, to be her new BFF, and it just didn't gel. She may have been told to antagonize Kyle at every turn, who knows?

All I know for sure is that they are told by production what to talk about, who to hang out and be friends with, and when to amp up the drama. And that was told to me by someone who works for one of the franchises.

[vrocotamy]

Each of these women are faxed or emailed their scripts before an episode is filmed. It's laid out who is appearing with who, where, what they are going to talk about, and to take it from there. I think that perhaps Carlton was told to be edgy like Brandi, to be her new BFF, and it just didn't gel. She may have been told to antagonize Kyle at every turn, who knows?

All I know for sure is that they are told by production what to talk about, who to hang out and be friends with, and when to amp up the drama. And that was told to me by someone who works for one of the franchises.

I believe all of this is true, but that there still is room for a.) Improvisation on the part of the housewives, within the parameters set by production and b.) Actual likes and dislikes among the cast members. In the latter case, I think production manipulates cast members' feelings in order to get TV-worthy results, since these are not trained actors, mostly. I think Carlton was probably told to be Brandi's new BFF and be super-edgy and it didn't gel (following your and Lura's theory), and then was probably both covertly and overtly made to antagonize Kyle, building on an initial dislike. I presume production fed Carlton info, true or not, that Kyle was talking shit about her after her pool party to stoke the flames of a deflating antagonism. In short, I think the Carlton vs. Kyle drama may have been initiated by overt producer staging and then brought to full force by covert producer manipulation. Production works upon the Housewives in all sorts of ways to achieve their desired results.

I would conjecture that when filming began, Season 4 was not supposed to be about all the returning cast members opposing Lisa. Carlton and Joyce were hired to reignite fading antagonisms between the returning cast members, with Carlton aligning with Brandi/Lisa and against Kyle and Joyce aligning with Kyle against Brandi/Lisa (the very scripted Joyce-Lisa confrontation on the terrace bespoke this.) This was sort of working with the Dream Team divisions in Palm Springs, but the story arc failed to solidify when other cast members wouldn't definitively take sides in the Brandi v. Joyce and Carlton v. Kyle drama. Production then rushed to create a dramatic climax to the season by cultivating anti-Lisa sentiment (having Scheana serve at Ken and Mo's party, having Brandi hike with Kyle to discuss Lisa and then tell Kyle about the mags, telling Kim Lisa got back from Missouri early, etc.)

Edited October 29, 2014 by vrocotamy

[ScoobieDoobs]

Sheesh, why in the fuckety fuck would Satan Andy wanna bring this thoroughly unpleasant woman back?  Man, I couldn't stand her & her bullshit fake lesbian crapola.

 

You know why I really completely & totally hated this woman?  Cuz she made me defend Kyle.  Gah, you bitch!  How could you make me do dat?  You should be exiled from this show forever for making me do dat!

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2872857/Fired-Real-Housewife-Beverly-Hills-Carlton-Gebbia-open-returning-producer-Andy-Cohen-admits-unfairly-portrayed.html

Edited December 14, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[BogoGog24]

I really don't want Carlton back unless she will be portrayed differently. And even then, I'd rather have Joyce. I loved Joyce because she just seemed normal and she handled Brandi's nastiness with much more class than any of the other ladies would have. But I guess production finds her too boring. Sigh. 

[Neeners]

Maybe they are thinking of bringing her back because nobody else wants to film with Brandi?

[LotusFlower]

Oh please. They're not bringing her back. Why would they? She was as about unpopular as HW's get. Sounds like PR spin to me (from her, not Bravo).

[ScoobieDoobs]

I haven't read Andy's book, but he said to Lisa on something they did on Youtube that he mentioned in his book he thought Carlton wasn't portrayed in the best light & maybe the audience misunderstood her -- or something like that. He said he thought there was too much sexy stuff & not enough about the rest of her life & her being an involved PTA mom. Er, huh? Who cares that she's a PTA mom? She's still unpleasant as fuck & I really don't wanna see her creepy-ass mug ever again. Eh, he's way off base if actually does wanna bring her back.

Edited December 14, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[WireWrap]

Oh please. They're not bringing her back. Why would they? She was as about unpopular as HW's get. Sounds like PR spin to me (from her, not Bravo).

Andy has brought her up himself lately. If they are planning to get rid of Brandi after this season, Carlton could be a good fit. They would have to show more of her real life, not this sex crazed drunk party witch, but the family loving mom that is just a bit eccentric. He could also bring her back as a "friend of" for Brandi since she, Brandi, is running out of HW's to film with if he wants to keep her. I would rather they bring Carlton back and fire Brandi.

[LotusFlower]

Andy has brought her up himself lately. If they are planning to get rid of Brandi after this season, Carlton could be a good fit. They would have to show more of her real life, not this sex crazed drunk party witch, but the family loving mom that is just a bit eccentric. He could also bring her back as a "friend of" for Brandi since she, Brandi, is running out of HW's to film with if he wants to keep her. I would rather they bring Carlton back and fire Brandi.

Andy mentioned her in his book, since it was a daily diary and she was likely a guest on WWHL, and all he said was that he thought she got a raw deal on the show. He's done that with other HW's, too. I don't think it's even remotely possible they're interested in bringing her back. Regardless of whether she has a more appealing side, she was a full-time HW, and she bombed. (And if it was partly Bravo's mistake for only showing the Wicca and stupid sex stuff, that's their mistake. It's not like they can re-introduce her as a totally new person).

If they did talk to her, it's possible they were interested in having her do a cameo, sort of like what Adrienne and Taylor and Camille did.

[LotusFlower]

I haven't read Andy's book, but he said to Lisa on something they did on Youtube that he mentioned in his book he thought Carlton wasn't portrayed in the best light & maybe the audience misunderstood her -- or something like that. He said he thought there was too much sexy stuff & not enough about the rest of her life & her being an involved PTA mom. Er, huh? Who cares that she's a PTA mom? She's still unpleasant as fuck & I really don't wanna see her creepy-ass mug ever again. Eh, he's way off base if actually does wanna bring her back.

Right. But I don't think he said the audience misunderstood her so much as the show misrepresenting her. I thought it was a pretty rare instance of Andy/TPTB taking responsibility for screwing up and getting it wrong. He might feel bad about that, or have regrets, but too late! I don't think fans are clamoring for her return.

[cooksdelight]

If they brought Carlton back as a mommy who bakes cookies, that would be admitting what a horrid sham this show is. Wouldn't it?

[ScoobieDoobs]

Eh, her personality is what it is. She went after Kyle for nitpicky stupid shit & I think that really sealed her fate cuz Kyle is very well-liked. Maybe not by me, but she is very popular. I'm still not seeing how highlighting her as a PTA mom is gonna make any diff to make her more likable. See, this is where I think Andy assumes viewers are morons & easy to manipulate. Er, no.

[WireWrap]

If they brought Carlton back as a mommy who bakes cookies, that would be admitting what a horrid sham this show is. Wouldn't it?

I think they would flip things if they brought her back. They would show more mommy time with just a bit of the naughty witch, the emphasis on the mom part and with a touch of the sexy/naughty witch. Last season she was portrayed/shown as a nasty sex crazed witch with very little mommy time at all. I think it can be done but it will take a lot of doing to achieve it, including her and Kyle making amends, starting off with her apologizing to Kyle. They can say that Brandi "influenced" her opinion of Kyle last season! LOL

Edited December 14, 2014 by WireWrap

[BogoGog24]

I don't see any reason for bringing Carlton back, even if they decided to portray her differently. Don't they only choose to do that if the Housewife was really popular and wanted back by demand? I don't think there are fans out there exactly demanding Carlton return. I'm sure she's got her supporters, but she was only on for one season, so I don't think she'd have made enough impact for a bunch of people to be wanting her back. I don't know enough about the franchise, but I don't know if maybe that was a factor for why Dina Manzo returned to RHONJ, or Countess LuAnn having tons of screen time this past season of NYC? Maybe they weren't all that popular when they were main cast members, I don't know. But they were also on for multiple seasons I think before being asked to return. They were not one-and-dones.

Edited December 14, 2014 by BogoGog24

[cooksdelight]

Isn't Carlton's husband a big "somebody" in Beverly Hills? Could he have maybe stirred the hornet's nest? I don't care one way or another at this point as I am barely watching this show anymore.

[thewhiteowl]

Carlton should hire Camille's PR people if she comes back. Camille was hated in her first season, too.

[imjagain]

I think they would flip things if they brought her back. They would show more mommy time with just a bit of the naughty witch, the emphasis on the mom part and with a touch of the sexy/naughty witch. Last season she was portrayed/shown as a nasty sex crazed witch with very little mommy time at all. I think it can be done but it will take a lot of doing to achieve it, including her and Kyle making amends, starting off with her apologizing to Kyle. They can say that Brandi "influenced" her opinion of Kyle last season! LOL

But Brandi and Kyle were on good terms last season. Right? I forget who is feuding with Brandi and when.

If Carlton came back (big if, in my opinion because, I don't see her being in big demand) She would have to admit she had preconceived ideas about Kyle and went on the show with an agenda when apologizing to Kyle. Carlton always denied watching the show so she wouldn't do that.

She was a nasty piece of work, who went after Kyle for no real reason. I'm not Kyle's biggest fan but I sided with her about Carlton.

And if they brought Carlton back, I would have to just throw in the towel on this show. I'm already ff so much.

So please no Carlton I don't care if she is a PTA mom ( wtf?). Why is that considered interesting haha.

[Almost 3000]

The only plus to the cast storyboard last year was Carlton was about the only one who still spoke to Lisa and I'm sure tptb didn't want to completely marginalize Lisa. If Lisa hadn't mended some fences between seasons Carlton may have been an option otherwise not so much.

[zoeysmom]

I saw plenty of Carlton with her children as much as any of the other HWs, who film with their children.  We saw them cooking and Carlton dropping f-bombs in front of them, in the spider mold filled playhouse, her husband putting the kids drilling the kids with strenuous exercise, not be allowed at the pool party and her kids telling her she was hot.  As Caroline Manzo says-"don't give them anything you don't want filmed."  Her husband business was featured  and we had the dreaded Chamber of Commerce of Beverly Hills tie in that her husband is a director on the Board of Directors.  Carlton and her husband chose to be insufferable and rude to Joyce and Kyle and also had the faux pas of cancelling at the last minute at King David's party.  The woman also wrote the most hate-filled blogs often erroneous it what had transpired.  She also was rude at the Reunion sounding like a hyena with her bursts of laughter. 

 

I saw no need for Carlton and I think Joyce got screwed in the whole deal as Lisa V. needed new allies and had to run with how despicable the other women were to her.  Joyce and Carlton ended up on her side by season's end and would have interfered with Lisa's grand plan.   Personally, I think by mid-season the producers had decided to ax Carlton-they didn't even bother to include her on the Puerto Rico trip.

[vrocotamy]

I don't believe Carlton (or Joyce) will be invited to return. I agree with zoeysmom that TPTB had decided to axe Carlton by mid-season. I think they first tried to sell her as this sex-crazed Wiccan who would engage in faux-lesbianism with Brandi, but her character came off as very fake, forced, and un-relatable. They then tried to course-correct by just focusing on her ridiculous feud with Kyle, which was so nasty it failed to be even entertaining (and was about religion, which is too...weighty for the Housewives.) Her reputation with fans can't be salvaged, even if Andy (and TPTB) admit they made some mistakes with how she was story-boarded. Personally, I just think she doesn't make good TV, even if production erred in emphasizing shock value too much in her portrayal.

 

I also don't trust the Daily Mail article about Carlton because it got some facts on her wrong. Like Camille, she was a soft porn actress, but she and her husband met at her day-job at his family's brokerage. He then produced an erotic thriller in 2001 especially for her after they married, which flopped and barely made it into general theatrical release.

Edited December 15, 2014 by vrocotamy

[zoeysmom]

There was her career as Carlton Lynx  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0253745/

 

My guess is some of her seedier work didn't warrant screen credits.

[vrocotamy]

There was her career as Carlton Lynx  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0253745/

 

My guess is some of her seedier work didn't warrant screen credits.

 

Yep. I'm actually kind of surprised her stints in porn didn't come up on RHOBH. Maybe they figured it was redundant after Camille's photos popped up at The Dinner Party from Hell in Season 1. I also would presume it's not that abnormal among trophy wives in Los Angeles to have some adult entertainment credits (it is the center of the American porn industry, after all, since a lot of people who fail at making it in Hollywood turn to it.)

[ScoobieDoobs]

Yep. I'm actually kind of surprised her stints in porn didn't come up on RHOBH.

It didn't even matter cuz she was trying soooo freakin' hard to be sexy. Sheesh, the woman pissed me off like crazy with that fake lesbian shit. I would imagine lesbians found the fakeness of this offensive as hell. Why'd she do that crap? Wasn't it all just one big ole fake-out? Supposedly she's a happily married woman. What in the fuckety fuck was she trying to tell us with all this nonsense? That she's bisexual & she has sex with women? Or that she does this stuff cuz it gets her husband hot?

Or was she trying to turn on the viewers? Cuz if she was trying to turn on the viewers with this fake lesbian crapola . . . er, big, huge, gigantic FAIL. Did Andy forget who the audience is? Mostly straight women & gay men. So does Andy want Carlton back cuz he realized he failed big time with this stupid fake lesbian stuff he was having her push so hard at us?

Remember how she was being all flirty with her giggling idiot nanny? What was the deal with dat shit anyway? She wanted us to think she & the nanny were having sex? And then there was that ridiculous kiss with Brandi. And then she got all pissed off when Brandi shot her mouth off about it. Why? The whole world saw it on camera anyway.

Look, I mean, she did all this shit on camera. Why is Andy so regretful now? Cuz he directed her to do all this fake crap? We saw her party with the naked people. But we did also see a few scenes of her with her daughters. We saw she seemed to have a handle on her kids. But I also remember her cursing a ton in front of her young daughters. Really hated to see dat. Honestly, we saw plenty of Carlton. There's absolutely no more of her I wanna see.

What's gonna change bout Carlton? She's still a witch, right? She's still got all the crosses & the confessional in her house. She's still a nasty, hardened piece of work. Gonna try to script her into a sweetie-pie, Satan Andy? Not. Gonna. Happen. Get it into your fuckin' head, will ya, Satan Andy -- the viewers are not morons!

Edited December 15, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[KFC]

Right. But I don't think he said the audience misunderstood her so much as the show misrepresenting her. I thought it was a pretty rare instance of Andy/TPTB taking responsibility for screwing up and getting it wrong. He might feel bad about that, or have regrets, but too late! I don't think fans are clamoring for her return.

 

Yeah, I think it was the closest we'll ever get to Andy Cohen admitting that a lot of what we see is manufactured for the cameras and largely preplanned by the producers. Nowhere in his comments did I get the impression that he thinks viewers are "morons," I only gleaned that his words were codespeak for "Carlton was a dutiful employee and played along with the (failed) script/character we had in mind, and what you saw on screen was not an accurate representation of who she is." 

 

I don't think he was literally saying that showing Carlton at a PTA meeting would make her more likable; I thought he was saying that she's more of a PTA mom than the f-bomb-dropping allegedly sex-crazed "witch" she played/everyone hated. I agree that there's not much point in bringing her back, but I don't think Andy is underestimating the viewers by defending her either. And I hate Andy, so it pains me to come to his defense here, but it's the closest he's ever come to breaking the fourth wall, so I'm inclined to believe there's a fire behind the guilt-smoke and that the "Carlton" we saw on screen could have easily been a fictitious persona handed to her by the producers.

Edited December 15, 2014 by KFC

[LotusFlower]

Yeah, I think it was the closest we'll ever get to Andy Cohen admitting that a lot of what we see is manufactured for the cameras and largely preplanned by the producers. Nowhere in his comments did I get the impression that he thinks viewers are "morons," I only gleaned that his words were codespeak for "Carlton was a dutiful employee and played along with the (failed) script/character we had in mind, and what you saw on screen was not an accurate representation of who she is." .

I don't think the Wicca or sex stuff with Carlton was fake or manufactured by Bravo, nor do I think Andy was implying this. I think it was just one side of her, and Andy seemed to feel bad that they only focused on that side, which made her come across as kind of freaky and unlikeable, and didn't show her "softer" side, that I guess she has.

[MatildaMoody]

The thing I like about Andy's admission about Carlton, is we finally get an acknowledgement of the other side of "reality" tv. We always hear the adage, that the producers can only show what the participants give them. And that is true. But the other side of that is that you can also give them plenty of your life and have very little of it actually play out on screen. And, that part is largely ignored because participants who point that out are automatically disdained for "blaming the editing." 

 

It's disingenuous of producers to just say,"we only show what you give us." Because it doesn't address the bulk of things that the participants also give that never gets shown.

 

Don't get me wrong. I have no desire to have Carlton back. But, for Andy of all people to admit that she got a raw deal when it came to what wasn't shown, is a big step in my opinion.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Guess my point is that we did see her as a mother. There were plenty of scenes of her as a mother. I only meant he'd be assuming viewers are idiots if he brought her back with a completely changed personality. It would be totally unbelievable. I assume he's regretting making her do the fake lesbian stuff, which was just so dumb. Just shows how off his instincts can be. Like with Aviva's father. He thought his misogyny was "hilarious", but viewers absolutely hated him.

At this point, it makes zero sense to bring Carlton back. She brings nothing. OK, so if he made her cut out the fake lesbian shit, & if he scripted her to be a sweetie-pie to Kyle & show her driving the kids to school -- so then what? It would still end up the same unpleasant shit we've seen before from huh. Er, no thanks.

[thewhiteowl]

IMO Carlton served her purpose. She was grossly unlikeable and relentlessly and unfairly attacked Kyle swaying many to defend her. She played her part, I think she's done.

[AKA...CJ86]

Regardless of what Andy says...you can't edit or present her awful attitude.  That's all Carl's...she couldn't hide her contempt or disgust when in the same room with Kyle or Joyce...

[MatildaMoody]

Regardless of what Andy says...you can't edit or present her awful attitude.  That's all Carl's...she couldn't hide her contempt or disgust when in the same room with Kyle or Joyce...

Agreed. Carlton seethed with disgust for both Kyle and Joyce and it seemed to come out of nowhere. She had to have decided that she wasn't going to like Kyle based on watching the show. And I think she figured that if Kyle was backing Joyce then she would win points by disliking her as well. 

 

I just think it's good that Andy acknowledges the other side of the "We only use what you give us." I feel like Reality Show producers think we are idiots when they refuse to acknowledge that there could be footage that completely refutes the story they are trying to give us. Not to say that was what was going on with Carlton.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by MatildaMoody

[ScoobieDoobs]

I thought Kyle's reaction to Carlton was sorta interesting. Kyle can be extremely catty, particularly to someone she doesn't care for. But I don't especially remember her ever making catty comments about Carlton. I think she was puzzled by her & didn't get her. Who the fuck did? And she was really surprised & puzzled by the way Carlton came at her so viciously.

Look, Kyle never knowingly provoked her -- ever. If she offended Carlton, it was likely unintentional & all Carlton needed to do was point it out to Kyle & I'm sure she woulda apologized sincerely. So Carlton's over-the-top anger & her attacks on Kyle never made any sense. Is Andy regretting he scripted Carlton a storyline that made no sense? So what? Would PTA witch mom be better? She's creepy as fuck. Viewers will hate her no matter what script Andy or his minions write for her.

Edited December 15, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[MatildaMoody]

I thought Kyle's reaction to Carlton was sorta interesting. Kyle can be extremely catty, particularly to someone she doesn't care for. But I don't especially remember her ever making catty comments about Carlton. I think she was puzzled by her & didn't get her. Who the fuck did? And she was really surprised & puzzled by the way Carlton came at her so viciously.

Look, Kyle never knowingly provoked her -- ever. If she offended Carlton, it was likely unintentional & all Carlton needed to do was point it out to Kyle & I'm sure she woulda apologized sincerely. So Carlton's over-the-top anger & her attacks on Kyle never made any sense. Is Andy regretting he scripted Carlton a storyline that made no sense? So what? Would PTA witch mom be better? She's creepy as fuck. Viewers will hate her no matter what script Andy or his minions write for her.

Yeah, the only thing that I ever remember Kyle doing was when she cut Carlton off mid sentence at that first meet and greet at Kyle's house. Carlton was telling some story and Kyle cuts her off to say something about opening the wine. I thought that was hilarious, but I could see how that would be embarrassing if I were in that situation.

 

As for the rest, I think Andy was citing that Reality Shows aren't just about the footage the participants give. Because we know that the participants give hours upon hours of footage that never makes the air and it is insulting to viewers to pretend that its ONLY about the footage the participants give. It is about what the footage the producers choose to use more than what the participants are willing to give.

[AKA...CJ86]

Yeah, the only thing that I ever remember Kyle doing was when she cut Carlton off mid sentence at that first meet and greet at Kyle's house. Carlton was telling some story and Kyle cuts her off to say something about opening the wine. I thought that was hilarious, but I could see how that would be embarrassing if I were in that situation.

-offended when Kyle's friend killed a bee in the same meet and greet...she loves nature and all it's creatures...but didn't Carl's kill spiders at her home...I wish this was brought up at the reunion...

-dreaming Kyle talked trash about Carl's...

 

I'll add more as I remember them...she had a few "reasons" to hate Kyle.

Edited December 15, 2014 by CyberJawa1986