Loathesome!: Characters We Hate

[GHScorpiosRule]

I have never seen Bobby enable JR. on the contrary, he was always calling JR out on his shit, shady and illegal dealings, and also beating the shit out of him. Ray was another who beat the shit out of him and called him out on his crap-AFTER JR screwed hon over and slept with Kate Mulgrew’s character. But then she didn’t care to be faithful to Ray.

Miss Ellie did, but there were a few times when she had had enough and brought him down-like when they voted JR out when Jock was “missing”.

[bluegirl147]

JR was the quintessential character you love to hate.  And that was due to Larry Hagman.  In another actor's hands he could have been a stereotypical villain.  

[AgathaC]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I have never seen Bobby enable JR. on the contrary, he was always calling JR out on his shit, shady and illegal dealings, and also beating the shit out of him. Ray was another who beat the shit out of him and called him out on his crap-AFTER JR screwed hon over and slept with Kate Mulgrew’s character. But then she didn’t care to be faithful to Ray.

Miss Ellie did, but there were a few times when she had had enough and brought him down-like when they voted JR out when Jock was “missing”.

Sometimes he called him out. But if any outsider (or even family member) tried to, he would often shut it down. I get the family sticking together thing. And there were times Bobby and/or Miss Ellie would get upset with him. But it felt like they would usually end up backing down and not hold him truly accountable. Even things like Bobby not letting JR back into Ewing Oil or not letting him be part of oil deals, he would always back down — which would almost always end up with JR doing something to jeopardize the company/family.

You’re right in that he would sometimes hold JR accountable. I think I just get annoyed with how many times he backed down or seemed to forget how JR truly was. Other than those times, I liked Bobby fine.

 

20 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

JR was the quintessential character you love to hate.  And that was due to Larry Hagman.  In another actor's hands he could have been a stereotypical villain.  

Absolutely. JR is a heinous human being, but he’s a damned entertaining one. And that’s due to Hagman’s portrayal.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

Absolutely. JR is a heinous human being, but he’s a damned entertaining one. And that’s due to Hagman’s portrayal.

He's the ORIGINAL MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!!!!!!

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

He's the ORIGINAL MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!!!!!!

I was a kid when Dallas first started airing so I wasn't reading TV magazines but surely there was talk of how can Tony Nelson play a villain.

Edited March 21 by bluegirl147

[GHScorpiosRule]

38 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I was a kid when Dallas first started airing so I wasn't reading TV magazines but surely there was talk of how can Tony Nelson play a villain.

So was I! I have mentioned in the show thread and other places that it took me some time to see Major Tony Nelson as a villain! And Ginger!

[bluegirl147]

Just now, GHScorpiosRule said:

So was I! I have mentioned in the show thread and other places that it took me some time to see Major Tony Nelson as a villain! And Ginger!

Oh yeah.  Tina Louise played Julie Grey.  I remember her fall off the building.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, AgathaC said:

Sometimes he called him out. But if any outsider (or even family member) tried to, he would often shut it down. I get the family sticking together thing. And there were times Bobby and/or Miss Ellie would get upset with him. But it felt like they would usually end up backing down and not hold him truly accountable. Even things like Bobby not letting JR back into Ewing Oil or not letting him be part of oil deals, he would always back down — which would almost always end up with JR doing something to jeopardize the company/family.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this. More often times than not, Bobby would tear into JR; and that started with the mini-series pilot. 

Sure, when it was the Family against outsiders, they would stick together to the, say, The Cartel, but when JR pulled that shit with Asian oil fields, and then forcing Miss Ellie to open that one well she promised her Daddy she never would do because of JR (at the last moment she didn't have to) with the Asian oil fields, the family ripped him a new one, and deservedly so.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I was a kid when Dallas first started airing so I wasn't reading TV magazines but surely there was talk of how can Tony Nelson play a villain.

I watched I Dream of Jeanine before I saw Dallas. It was a shocking at first to see Major Nelson being such a bastard.  

[Egg McMuffin]

Sue Ellen was the best mother on the show. Let’s compare her to the others:

• Ellie played favorites (“Gaaaarrry!”), guilted her sons to live at home as adults, and was party to denying her granddaughter’s mother the opportunity to raise her.
• Pamela abandoned Christopher after her car accident.
• Rebecca abandoned Pam and Cliff.
• Jenna was coy about Charlie’s parentage, and then tried to keep Lucas away from Bobby and his family.
• Patricia Shepherd directed her daughters, Sue Ellen and Kristin, to pursue rich husbands at any cost.
• Afton denied her daughter the opportunity to know her father.
• Valene’s mother dumped her on relatives so she could pursue her dreams of being an autoharp superstar.

The Dallas fathers were no better, btw.

• Jock played favorites and helped contribute to JRs villainy by feeding his insecurities. He also treated women like second-class citizens.
• JR treated his son’s mother like crap.
• Ray took a bizarre interest in his teenage stepdaughter’s romantic life.
• Bobby abandoned Lucas because Christopher felt insecure.
• Gary abandoned Lucy.

Edited March 22 by Egg McMuffin

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Pamela abandoned John Ross after her car accident.

I think you mean Christopher. And I disagree because it and Pam’s abandonment of Bobby AND Christopher was a plot point because Victoria left the show; and they turned her into a deadbeat mom, and then killed her off.

And I don’t think Bobby was a bad dad.

Sue Ellen became a good mother after she decided to become a mother, and avoiding John Ross (after giving birth), and of course her drinking when she was pregnant.

 

[AgathaC]

39 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think you mean Christopher. And I disagree because it and Pam’s abandonment of Bobby AND Christopher was a plot point because Victoria left the show; and they turned her into a deadbeat mom, and then killed her off.

And I don’t think Bobby was a bad dad.

Sue Ellen became a good mother after she decided to become a mother, and avoiding John Ross (after giving birth), and of course her drinking when she was pregnant.

 

Bobby was an awesome dad, in my opinion.

And I hated the way they wrote Pam off — on multiple levels.

As for Sue Ellen, remaining in a state of intoxication for most of her pregnancy was not her finest hour. But once she stabilized, I thought she was level-headed and a good parent.

[JustHereForFood]

Speaking of family relationships, I can't remember - once it was revealed that Ray is Jock's son, was it ever brought up that he slept with Lucy or have they conveniently never mentioned it again? I think it was the latter but I'm not sure.

[GHScorpiosRule]

40 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Speaking of family relationships, I can't remember - once it was revealed that Ray is Jock's son, was it ever brought up that he slept with Lucy or have they conveniently never mentioned it again? I think it was the latter but I'm not sure.

No. And the only reason they made Ray a Ewing was because Kanaly wasn’t happy and was going to quit. Hagman convinced him to stay, spoke with Katzman, and they came up with that storyline. I saw this on a YouTube interview just last week-what with rewatching the show, I went into a Dallas rabbit hole, 😁. But it was never brought up that Ray and Lucy had had an affair when she was 17.

Edited March 23 by GHScorpiosRule

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. And the only reason they made Ray a Ewing was because Kanaly wasn’t happy and was going to quit. Hagman convinced him to stay, spoke with Katzman, and they came up with that storyline. I saw this on a YouTube interview just last week-what with rewatching the show, I went into a Dallas rabbit hole, 😁. But it was never brought up that Ray and Lucy had had an affair when she was 17.

That's what made the reveal so weird. 

[Blergh]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That's what made the reveal so weird. 

How tough would it have been for Ray and/or Lucy to have had a momentary reaction of 'EWWW!!!!' while shuddering upon hearing the news?

But,none of the characters who'd known about their unquestionably dubious encounters  ever even vaguely alluded to it.

P.S. Yes, even had they NOT been related- for a grown employee to have had sexual encounters with an underage girl( his employer's granddaughter)  was already icky- to say nothing of criminal!

Edited March 24 by Blergh

[JustHereForFood]

10 hours ago, Blergh said:

How tough would it have been for Ray and/or Lucy to have had a momentary reaction of 'EWWW!!!!' while shuddering upon hearing the news?

But,none of the characters who'd known about their unquestionably dubious encounters  ever even vaguely alluded to it.

P.S. Yes, even had they NOT been related- for a grown employee to have had sexual encounters with an underage girl( his employer's granddaughter)  was already icky- to say nothing of criminal!

I don't know if criminal, think she was 17, isn't the age of consent 16 in the US? But it's still icky considering the age difference and the fact that Lucy specifically was not very mature. She wasn't particularly mature when older either, though.

[Egg McMuffin]

On 3/20/2024 at 10:12 AM, AgathaC said:

As for JR, he grew up knowing he was neither parents’ favorite, constantly seeking his father’s approval. That can do a number on the psyche.

I thought it was great that the show carefully set up a reason for JR’s villainy from the first episode. JR didn’t do bad deeds just for the sake of it; he was doing them to gain his father’s approval by building up the company.

When Jock died, they did a storyline about JR giving up on his work because it didn’t matter anymore now that his daddy wasn’t around. JR eventually snapped out of it and went back to his villainous ways when Bobby reminded him that he was now building the company for his son instead of his father (thanks, Bobby!).

[bluegirl147]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:45 PM, Blergh said:

But,none of the characters who'd known about their unquestionably dubious encounters  ever even vaguely alluded to it.

Am I wrong in remembering only Pam knew about it?

On 3/22/2024 at 3:44 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

Jenna was coy about Charlie’s parentage, and then tried to keep Lucas away from Bobby and his family.

Could not stand Jenna.  I think the audience was supposed to think of her as a poor put upon damsel in distress but like you said she was not above playing games.

On 3/22/2024 at 7:34 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I disagree because it and Pam’s abandonment of Bobby AND Christopher was a plot point because Victoria left the show; and they turned her into a deadbeat mom, and then killed her off.

I don't think the show ever recovered from that.  I would have been willing to accept a recast for Pam if they had chosen the right actress.

On 3/24/2024 at 12:16 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I thought it was great that the show carefully set up a reason for JR’s villainy from the first episode. JR didn’t do bad deeds just for the sake of it; he was doing them to gain his father’s approval by building up the company.

When Jock died, they did a storyline about JR giving up on his work because it didn’t matter anymore now that his daddy wasn’t around. JR eventually snapped out of it and went back to his villainous ways when Bobby reminded him that he was now building the company for his son instead of his father (thanks, Bobby!).

JR was a complex character. He wasn't some big bad who did evil things just because. Most of his misdeeds were related to doing what he thought was best for Ewing Oil.  He was probably wrong as much as he was right but that was usually his motivation.  His cheating on his wives though was just him being a dog.  There is no complexity there.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

27 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Am I wrong in remembering only Pam knew about it?

Bobby also knew about Ray and Lucy. There was a scene in the first season, I think, at the disco? or maybe later, where Bobby warned Ray to stay away from Lucy-that he wasn't as blind (I'm paraphrasing here) to what had been going on.

Look, Hagman and Katzman wanted Kanaly to stay with the show. So they hand waved the affair Ray and Lucy had. 

29 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I don't think the show ever recovered from that.  I would have been willing to accept a recast for Pam if they had chosen the right actress.

They didn't. The show just went downhill from that season until the end. I stuck with it out of loyalty, but it was horrible. Then Linda left two years after Victoria.

They did a small plot with a Pam dead ringer, who apparently had been living in Dallas all her life, was a real estate agent, but suddenly, Bobby crossed paths with her. Of course they had to make her out to be a scheming whatever-reading up on Pam, dressing like her; so Bobby had a short fling, as a way to say goodbye to Pam. Then the same actress (who did look sort of like Victoria) showed up as Pam a year later, when Cliff found her, only to tell him, she didn't care about Christopher--the baby, the child-she'd always wanted. Something that had made her suicidal and put in a sanitarium-or Bobby, because she fell in wuv with her doctor. Yeah, yeah, she was dying. From WHAT? I guess she just wasn't a strong enough actress to play Pam long term? It was clear Katzman and company didn't know what to do and cobbled all this together, after Pam begged Bobby to never leave her when she woke up from the dream season.

Can ye tell I'm still bitter over this?

[MissAlmond]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Look, Hagman and Katzman wanted Kanaly to stay with the show. So they hand waved the affair Ray and Lucy had. 

Dallas never mentioning the Ray/Lucy affair again after Ray became a Ewing was the show's Men in Black way of saying: Didn't happen.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, MissAlmond said:

Dallas never mentioning the Ray/Lucy affair again after Ray became a Ewing was the show's Men in Black way of saying: Didn't happen.

Exactly!

[MissAlmond]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Exactly!

[AgathaC]

As we seem to have taken over this thread, i’m going to move over to the Dallas thread! 

[Spartan Girl]

Thomas Boleyn on The Tudors. It takes a special kind of asshole to top Henry as the Worst Father Ever on the show, and oh did he ever. Bad enough that he treated his daughters like cash cows for power. But he disowns Mary for marrying a commoner for love, refuses to show Anne any sympathy for her miscarriages, and ultimately sells Anne and George down the River, not even bothering to hide how giddy he is for keeping his wealth! Even after Charles Brandon gives him his long overdue riot act—“Was it all worth it?”—he doesn’t even have the decency to acknowledge Anne when she tearfully waves to him from the Tower window.

Piece. Of. Shit.

Oh yeah, he tried to murder Bishop Fisher too.

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Thomas Boleyn on The Tudors. It takes a special kind of asshole to top Henry as the Worst Father Ever on the show, and oh did he ever. Bad enough that he treated his daughters like cash cows for power. But he disowns Mary for marrying a commoner for love, refuses to show Anne any sympathy for her miscarriages, and ultimately sells Anne and George down the River, not even bothering to hide how giddy he is for keeping his wealth! Even after Charles Brandon gives him his long overdue riot act—“Was it all worth it?”—he doesn’t even have the decency to acknowledge Anne when she tearfully waves to him from the Tower window.

Piece. Of. Shit.

Oh yeah, he tried to murder Bishop Fisher too.

Wow, it's hard to beat Henry as an even worse father. That's Lady Jane Grey levels of father. 

[Danny Franks]

I did a rewatch of Scrubs and decided I might as well bite the bullet and watch season nine for the first time.

I only got halfway through. Partly because it just isn't very funny and the entire setup is awkward and artificial, and partly because Dave Franco's character is one of the most unpleasant and annoying characters I've ever seen on a TV show.

He is selfish, narcissistic, callous and rude. One of the first things he does is sleep with Kerry Bishe's character, then take a photo of her naked when she's not looking and share it with people at the hospital.

Then, even after she's completely humiliated by that, she sleeps with him again.

He's similar to another rich boy med student character who appeared much earlier in the show. In that case, Elliot humbles him and calls his bluff on his threat that his rich dad will pull his donation to the hospital. But there is no such humbling or humanising of Dave Franco in season nine.

[Mabinogia]

15 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I did a rewatch of Scrubs and decided I might as well bite the bullet and watch season nine for the first time.

Thank you for watching that so I don't have to. That sounds horrible, and nothing like the Scrubs I knew and loved. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Rewatching The Resident, and I’m currently on S1. I know it’s obvious to hate Lane, the oncologist, but for her to harm so many cancer patients and overtreat them to get more money…it’s so hard to watch Lily, the one patient particularly special to Conrad, die an unnecessary death. This was when Bell was still a villain and covering up his own issues while having a short fling with Lane in late S1. 

I do think Melina Kanakaredes is very attractive though. I remember seeing promos for Providence back in the 2000s and not realizing she was probably one of my first girl crushes (never saw that show though).

Also on The Resident: Barrett Cain, the neurosurgeon who shows up in S3. Even for a surgeon, he had way too big of an ego, and I don’t think the show did nearly as convincing of a job at his redemption as they did with Bell’s. But similar to what I said above…Morris Chestnut is so attractive that it sucks to hate his character. The show did have a lot of good villains in seasons 1-3 now that I think about it. That part kinda fell off later in the series.

Still, neither Lane or Barrett is as hated for me as Abby Lockhart, although they came close. I’ve slowed down my latest ER watch considerably (I’m not as into it as I was a year or two ago now that I got off my nostalgia high), and I still want to smack her most of the time. Although I will say she is more bearable when the show focuses on her at work and her personal life isn’t depressing a laughing hyena. 

[BlueSkies]

Dana from Step by Step.

 

As a kid I respected that she seemed studious and serious.  As an adult she seems rather like a snob more often than not.  The Code Man on the show helped her out multiple times yet she still never seemed to respect him.   

[AgathaC]

13 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

Dana from Step by Step.

 

As a kid I respected that she seemed studious and serious.  As an adult she seems rather like a snob more often than not.  The Code Man on the show helped her out multiple times yet she still never seemed to respect him.   

I haven’t seen that show in years, but I recall thinking she was a pompous, self-righteous bitch. (She actually reminded me of someone I knew who was, and still is, similar in personality.)

[Spartan Girl]

I hesitate to add him, because apparently the actor is facing harassment on account of people being too stupid to distinguish actors from they characters: Criston Cole on House of the Dragon.

It sets my teeth on edge that some viewers excuse his shitty incel behavior on the way Rhenryra treated him. Rhaenyra is no saint, but she didn’t owe him marriage just because he broke his chastity vow for her. He was a willing participant in the affair, and he could have turned her down before, regardless of the fact she was the princess. He had no problem turning her down after she made it clear she wouldn’t marry him. And he could’ve just let it go and move on with his life, but noooo. Like every Nice Guy scorned, he uses that as excuse to to an asshole and spend his energy obsessing over her and wanting revenge.

Not to mention that he’s a total failure at his job, and yet somehow keeps getting promoted.

I don’t really care about this show, but I do want him to die. Preferably soon. And painfully.

That being said, leave the actor alone, you idiot trolls.

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

That being said, leave the actor alone, you idiot trolls.

This I agree with 100%.

[Katy M]

On 3/24/2024 at 9:37 AM, JustHereForFood said:

I don't know if criminal, think she was 17, isn't the age of consent 16 in the US? But it's still icky considering the age difference and the fact that Lucy specifically was not very mature. She wasn't particularly mature when older either, though.

In TX in 1920 the age of consent was 18 and in 1999 it was 17, but I don't know when it changed. So, maybe illegal, maybe not.

[Palimelon]

I was ok with them forgetting about Ray and Lucy hooking. It wasn't a huge plot point, and if they were going to make Ray a Ewing, they kind of needed to forget about it and move on. Plus, continuity wasn't as big back then as it is today.

Quote

I don't think the show ever recovered from that.  I would have been willing to accept a recast for Pam if they had chosen the right actress.

I thought the actress they got to play the Pam lookalike and then Pam herself was decent enough. They could have given it a chance and tried to have the character back on the show, but they never bothered so...it was what it was.

[BlueSkies]

Louie DePalma from Taxi

 

Even though he was hysterical he was still an ass hole.  lol 

[Blergh]

16 minutes ago, BlueSkies said:

Louie DePalma from Taxi

 

Even though he was hysterical he was still an ass hole.  lol 

I'm not arguing with you on this (and somehow I don't think Rhea Perlman would either).

 

However, Louie was the ONE sure-fire lemon in the batch for the Taxi lemonade.

OTOH,IMO, Bobby Wheeler (the late Jeff Conaway) was annoying and arrogant and by no means the bestie he wanted the rest of the crew to think he was- and he was needlessly antagonist to Louie on those rare occasions when Louie attempted to muster civility to him. He kept rubbing it everyone's faces how he was an actor wasting his time driving cabs and would soon have his Big Break, be outta there & so long SUCKERS!  That didn't happen and the audience was expected to throw him a pity party until he abruptly was gone. Frankly, I was relieved when Bobby was gone and thought the group seemed a great deal less tense thereafter.

[Dimity]

With the sad passing of Bob Newhart I was thinking about the Newhart show and I'd have to say that Kirk, who owned the Minuteman Cafe in the first two seasons, was pretty loathsome!  I meant not JR Ewing loathsome but a pathological liar with few redeeming qualities loathsome.

[Blergh]

9 minutes ago, Dimity said:

With the sad passing of Bob Newhart I was thinking about the Newhart show and I'd have to say that Kirk, who owned the Minuteman Cafe in the first two seasons, was pretty loathsome!  I meant not JR Ewing loathsome but a pathological liar with few redeeming qualities loathsome.

One of the only redeeming qualities he had was that his sneaky grandma was played by Ruth Gordon. She'd raised him wrong from  early childhood  and Kirk (and his new bride) wound up in jail thanks to her shenanigans.  Yeah, she simultaneously brought the laughs AND somehow got the viewer to genuinely feel sorry for her framed grandson and granddaughter-in-law.

 

[Wiendish Fitch]

Kirk was awful; a charmless, unfunny, horribly written character. Writing him out  improved Newhart tremendously.

 

[Palimelon]

Ben Linus from Lost. I didn't love to hate him, I didn't feel bad for him, or sympathize with him in any way, I just hated him. And it always annoyed me that the show kept pushing that he was worthy of some redemption because he lost his mom at a young age and his dad didn't hug him enough or whatever when other characters like Michael or Ana Lucia didn't deserve that same redemption even though he was far, far, far worse than any of them. 

[Anela]

2 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Ben Linus from Lost. I didn't love to hate him, I didn't feel bad for him, or sympathize with him in any way, I just hated him. And it always annoyed me that the show kept pushing that he was worthy of some redemption because he lost his mom at a young age and his dad didn't hug him enough or whatever when other characters like Michael or Ana Lucia didn't deserve that same redemption even though he was far, far, far worse than any of them. 

I haven't finished a re-watch, even though I was close to done, because I had forgotten a lot, and they just kept Ben doing his thing, for so long. I think part of his issues, were also supposed to be when he helped one character, as a kid, and then that same one shot him. the whole going back in time thing - it showed us more of the Dharma Initiative, and the Others, but I didn't like that plot.

[Palimelon]

I think I read somewhere that Ben wasn't supposed to be a long term character, but the actor playing him impressed the producers so much that they made him a regular character.

[bluegirl147]

There are some shows upon a rewatch I realize I find all the characters loathsome.   Or at the very least unlikable.   Lost is one of those shows.  I did like the dog.  Vincent I think was his name.

[Dimity]

4 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Kirk was awful; a charmless, unfunny, horribly written character. Writing him out  improved Newhart tremendously.

The first maid, Stephanie's cousin, was also written out after the first season and that really improved the show.  She was a perfectly nice person but she didn't really add anything to the show.  It worked best with Dick and Joanna being a normal couple surrounded by eccentric characters.  Kirk wasn't eccentric just unlikeable.

[kathyk2]

Elias Woodstone from Ghosts. He cheated on his wife Hetty and didn't care about his son Thomas. He wanted to use his ghost power which was making people aroused to ruin Sam and Jay's goal to open a B&B. After he rejects Hetty again he is sent to Hell something the ghosts thought was impossible. I have never hated a character more than him.

[ABay]

My love for Ben Linus is eternal. As much as I thought the finale and all but maybe 2 episodes of the final season were painful, the episodes from late 3rd season through the 4th season were brilliant, because of Ben. There's a lot to dislike about Lost and i'll never willingly watch any else touched by Damien Lindelof, but it gave me Ben and I'm grateful for that.

 

 

 

[Wiendish Fitch]

14 hours ago, Dimity said:

The first maid, Stephanie's cousin, was also written out after the first season and that really improved the show.  She was a perfectly nice person but she didn't really add anything to the show.  It worked best with Dick and Joanna being a normal couple surrounded by eccentric characters.  Kirk wasn't eccentric just unlikeable.

Poor Jennifer Holmes, she did her best, but the character of Leslie just did not work. I will give Bob Newhart and company this, at least they didn't talk smack about Holmes years after the fact like the writers of Friends did with Helen Baxendale. It was absolutely not Holmes's fault that Leslie wasn't that interesting.

Them's the breaks, I guess. 

Edited July 21 by Wiendish Fitch

[Is Everyone Gone]

On 7/20/2024 at 9:52 PM, ABay said:

My love for Ben Linus is eternal. As much as I thought the finale and all but maybe 2 episodes of the final season were painful, the episodes from late 3rd season through the 4th season were brilliant, because of Ben. There's a lot to dislike about Lost and i'll never willingly watch any else touched by Damien Lindelof, but it gave me Ben and I'm grateful for that.

I also loved Ben. I always empathized with him even though he was a villain.

I've got one: Bill from Big Love. It's one of my favorite shows of all time. I adored the dynamic between the sister wives. But good lord, I hated Bill. And it was a weakness of the show that three beautiful, essentially good women (Barb, Nicki, Margene) would love this guy so much. He was just dull, wishy-washy, clueless, inconsiderate. Like what did they see in this guy? 

[Annber03]

3 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

And it was a weakness of the show that three beautiful, essentially good women (Barb, Nicki, Margene) would love this guy so much. He was just dull, wishy-washy, clueless, inconsiderate. Like what did they see in this guy? 

Mind, I haven't seen this show, but based off my time watching true crime stories about polygamous cults, or what's his face in the commercials I see for that "Sister Wives" show, or whatnot,  this detail seems like a fairly accurate portrayal of those kinds of relationships. 'Cause that's the exact same question I have when I see those shows, or commercials for them - "What the hell kind of pull does this guy have over these women?"