S06.E13: Win, Place, Or Sonja

[LovetoSnark]

This is in reply to Scoobie Doobs and why don't they get it I couldn't get the quotes to work:

 

I truly believe that Andy Cohen thinks that he has the pulse on what people want to see on TV. Andy has been so successful in his creations ( Housewives, Top Chef, What Happens Live) and has won a Peabody, an Emmy, and was named in 2010 one of the top 25 most influential people in TV.

 

Andy may have become susceptible to the same fame whore that has been the destruction  of several  reality housewives.. My mother used to call it  " getting to big for your pants---- some one is going to take you down a notch or two". Our Housewives Franchises have changed and the change is due to Andy. Rating will probably kill it ---- but even with that I don't know if Andy or Bravo will get it. They will probably say the viewers lost interest---- instead of admitting that they killed it with with their over the top  drama :, drunkenness, extreme sexuality, misogyny, physical violence, sexual harassment, chair-gates, book-gates etc.

Edited June 9, 2014 by LovetoSnark

[DebbieM4]

Of course she is and we are entitled to not like her. The only difference is, tolerating sexual assault and brushing it off as charming puts all of us at risk. Not liking Kristen harms no one.

 

I agree.  And she clearly did not like it and seemed very uncomfortable, to the point of leaving the room.  Sure, she has every right to find his behavior okay.  But it was pretty obvious to me that she was flustered, caught off guard, and not happy about it.  Her frozen smile spoke volumes and she was clearly not sure how to react.  She did not look at all to me like someone who was caught up in a fun moment and easily brushed it off.   I also think that models are used to being seen undressed by many people and touched as clothing is fitted, adjusted, etc, but not necessarily having their body parts grabbed, fondled, and played with strictly for someone's sexual amusement.  And she certainly did not seem used to it.   Someone who was used to it would have continued to move around the party, talking to people, grabbing a drink, etc, acting just the same as she had before she was grabbed.  But that's not what she did.

 

Laughing and joking about it now, and acting as though it was harmless just shows me how shallow and spineless she is.  This was last summer, and in all the time since then she's said nothing to indicate how she really felt about what he did or to even hint that old men grabbing young women they have just met may not be okay.  How many times have we heard Kristen say, "That's NOT OKAY!!?  About a myriad of things, including the super-trivial.  Yet this she just lets pass with the equivalent of a wink and a smile.  Not just at the party.  Ever since then, nearly a year later.  

 

(Obviously it's not just old men who should not be grabbing young women.  No one of any age should be grabbing any part of anyone else's body without their consent.  And that includes an arm, a breast, or anything at all. Whether they have just met or not.  If that's a "thing" between friends, that's different, but most definitely not what happened here.)

[shoegal]

I hate watching it & I would bet It's absolutely NOT what most, if not all, viewers want to see.  Why don't they get that?

 

 

I don't think Andy gives a shit whether you like it or not when you are watching it, as long as you are watching it.  There is no distinction in the ratings between fans and grudge watchers. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Well, I think they're pushing viewers, who are at the point of being "grudge-watchers", to tuning out completely.  I predict ratings are gonna plummet.  This is not what I wanna see on the show.  I suspect many viewers agree with me.

 

Still say, George & Veevs are absolutely murdering this show.

Edited June 9, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[ryebread]

.....& Bravo putting this crap up to supposedly entertain us.

Not only are they putting the crap up, but they use the crap from the verrrrrry bottom of the bucket.  George's comments about what he'd do to Ramona at her funeral...WHY would they choose to leave that in?  They could have just as easily left it out.  It was shocking, it was gross, it was possibly the most disgusting thing I've heard on any of the franchises.  So the purpose was to shock, or show us what we already know about George.  Maybe it was a test to see how far they could push the envelope before viewers turn the Hos off.  If ratings are high this week, they'll know they struck gold and they'll keep testing the limits.

 

Or is Andy really so gross and vile that he really thinks that shit is funny?

[comatoast]

In her own words (from Kristin's blog):

 

"Getting felt up at this point is a #RHONY right of passage.I knew it was coming. I am the new girl, I was prepared to take one for the team."

 

This is where I can't cut her any slack. Of course it is perfectly acceptable behavior to be shocked after being molested and not know how to react (and even withdraw and deny it even happened), but how much shock was there when she knew it was coming and was prepared for it? If you know something is going to happen to you and you go there and let it happen, you are playing an active role in whatever happens. This takes it into murky territory as to whether she is a victim or not, but what is very clear to me is that she IS perpetuating and enabling this kind of behavior. On national TV. To be replayed over and over. And calling it a rite of passage just makes it sound like he is doing them a favor by groping them. She might as well #ThanksGeorge. 

 

Maybe a major plummet in the ratings will make Bravo/Andy listen in the long-run, but for now, I'm afraid our outrage will continue to fall on deaf ears so long as Kristin continues to condone this. In my opinion, her voice has the most impact right now.

[shoegal]

Of course it is perfectly acceptable behavior to be shocked after being molested and not know how to react (and even withdraw and deny it even happened), but how much shock was there when she knew it was coming and was prepared for it?

 

 

It is possible that Kristin was not as outraged and offended by George's behavior as one might think she should be, and I think that's perfectly acceptable, too. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

"Getting felt up at this point is a #RHONY right of passage.I knew it was coming. I am the new girl, I was prepared to take one for the team."

 

 

Yeah, I guess she can feel the way she feels.  But I really shudder at the thought of a woman who would think getting felt up is a "rite of passage".  This sends out a horrible message.  Keep, laughing, Andy Cohen, keep laughing.  Women getting molested is just so hilarious, right?

Edited June 9, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[MatildaMoody]

 

I'm afraid our outrage will continue to fall on deaf ears so long as Kristin continues to condone this. In my opinion, her voice has the most impact right now.

But why should her voice have more impact than Sonja's or Carole's or Heather, or any of the women who defended him when Ramona kicked him out of her charity event? Kristen is towing the party line even now. Her outrage over being physically assaulted by Ramona was met with "that's just Ramona." Even the audience was telling her to let it go. But, now she is supposed to don a cape and lead a crusade against George when absolutely no one else was willing to do it?

 

Even Ramona greeted George kindly when he first arrived at her charity event. She hugged him, kissed him on the cheek, thanked him for coming and everything. And this was after he spoke to Carole about squirting orgasms and poked his erection into Sonja's back. It wasn't until he started following her around and grabbed her arm that she got angry even then, it was about him making a scene at her event.

 

Why should Kristin be singled out as the one who has the most influence over this guy's behavior when none of the self admitted "ballsy" women on the show have been willing to do so?

Edited June 9, 2014 by MatildaMoody

[Higgins]

I wonder if she would be okay with him grouping her daughter when she is of age?

I mentioned Sonja in my post, as far as I know those are he only women that he physically assaulted. All of them should stand up against his actions.

Edited June 9, 2014 by psychnurse

[film noire]

 

And calling it a rite of passage just makes it sound like he is doing them a favor by groping them.

 

Agreed.  And the use of the phrase "felt up" is a massive red flag;  as if this were an old episode of "Happy Days" -- with the Fonz teaching Ritchie how to get to second base -- and not *another* instance of predatory behavior from the same perp.  It's repulsive how  (sometimes at the edges of our culture, but sometimes right up front) women's bodies are still seen as public property to be used, fondled and handled like some kind of flesh-toy.

Edited June 9, 2014 by film noire

[Satchels of gold]

I think it hysterical that with all the different posters the one thing we can agree on is "George is disgusting ". Truer words have never been spoken.

[DebbieM4]

There is nothing to suggest that George would stop if Kristin or Sonja or any other woman stopped "giggling" an pushed back, there are men who go to jail for rape and come out and rape again, so even prison is not a deterrent to some people.  It's not up to Sonja or Kristin to control George's behavior, and I suspect George knows his behavior is not OK and doesn't need anyone to tell him that, I also feel confident that George does it for what he gets out of it, not because he believes the women like it.  It's up to George to control his behavior, not Kristin or Sonja. 

 

I'm sure you're not saying that rapists shouldn't be informed that rape is wrong because in some cases even prison is not a deterrent.  But that's what it sounds like.  A child in school who has a habit of shooting his classmates with a water pistol also might not stop if a teacher tells him to.  So should we just shrug our shoulders, laugh along with him, not even try, and let him keep shooting? -  or should he be told loudly & clearly that it's wrong and be put in detention?  And of course this extends to far more violent & dangerous situations as well.  That's what makes us a civilized society.  

 

No, George may not stop.  But that doesn't mean women should just stand there and take it.  There is no reason at all, IMO, not to speak up.  It's wrong and he needs to be told it's wrong.   Whether or not he changes his behavior, whether or not he thinks they're over-reacting, hysterical females, whether or not he sees it as harmless fun.  It's wrong to fondle women for his own pleasure.  And yes, I agree that he does it for what he gets out of it.  But that's using women to satisfy his own twisted needs, and he has no right to do that.  And he needs to be called out for it.  Personally, I would remove myself from his presence and let both George & Bravo know that I find him disgusting and inappropriate.  It would be important to me to make my voice heard, whether or not I thought he would take my words to heart.  I don't think he will ever see the error of his ways, but it would be important to me to speak my mind anyway because I couldn't live with myself if I didn't.  Or look a future daughter or granddaughter in the eye.  Women have come a long way, and creeps like George have the potential to set us way back if we don't call him out on it and if we don't send a message loud & clear to every man within the sound of our voices that this kind of behavior is wrong.

 

Yes, of course it's up to him to control his behavior.  But a woman who lets him continue and acts as though it's all in fun just because she doesn't want to make waves is a coward who is helping to lay the groundwork for crimes against women and the mentality that women were put on earth strictly for the amusement of men.

 

(Whoops!  I just saw the warning to all of us to tone things down.  I wasn't intending to attack anyone and I hope it didn't come across that way.  I tried to edit, but I'm having problems with the editor and I don't know how to delete a post.  So sorry!  Newbie here, feeling dumb about how this site works.)

Edited June 9, 2014 by DebbieM4

[comatoast]

It is possible that Kristin was not as outraged and offended by George's behavior as one might think she should be, and I think that's perfectly acceptable, too. 

Of course it is. And since she chose to be on TV in a reality show, it is perfectly acceptable for me to criticize and judge her for not being outraged and offended by George's behavior.

Edited June 9, 2014 by comatoast

[Trooper York]

I thought what we agreed on was that Andy Cohen is disgusting?

[shoegal]

I'm sure you're not saying that rapists shouldn't be informed that rape is wrong because in some cases even prison is not a deterrent.  But that's what it sounds like.

 

 

 

Of course I am not saying that. 

 

 

I am also not saying that a woman should be forced to take it if she feels uncomfortable, I just don't think that the woman is failing society if she's not made uncomfortable by it. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by shoegal

[DebbieM4]

I go back to my main issue with George - what the fuck is he doing on my TV, and why does he play such a pivotal role the times when he is? He is Aviva's father - nothing more. She is hardly a well-liked Ho'wife, or a long term gal. I couldn't care less about Aviva, so I certainly don't care about her father. Even if he was a nice, charming man, I would be screaming for them to show me more of the stuff I want to see. I want over-the-top parties (Heather's rooftop anniversary party was my fav moment this season). I want house, clothes and shoe porn. Who cares if Aviva's dad is engaged or had a threesome? He can be a nice guy or a pervert. He is still a guy who has no appeal to me because he has nothing to do with what I find interesting on this show.

I cannot believe it took Bravo so many months to cobble together this vast collection of steaming bullshit.

I would love to see the stuff with Lu that got left on the cutting room floor during this epic edit.

 

Yes to all of this!  I want to see parties and houses and all of that too.  And HW's, and maybe cute husbands.  A father is just way too much of a fringe character for me, and we see him much too much.  As you said, even if he was a nice, charming man, I watch these shows to see the way these women live.  Glimpses into their backgrounds & families are fine, but everything seems off-balance this season.  Too much forced stuff.  Too much drama over stupid things.  And a sudden awkward weird engagement that really has no relevance to what this show is supposed to be about.

 

And yes - I would love to see the Luanne stuff too.  She's adorable this season!  Very entertaining, even when we just hear one of her dry sense of humor remarks in the background when she's not even onscreen.  I love her now!

[comatoast]

 and maybe cute husbands.

Total douche that we know he is, If I lived near Mario, I would so dye my hair blond and pretend to be a total nutbag. I want to be repulsed by him. I really do! But I'm just not.

Edited June 10, 2014 by comatoast

[comatoast]

But why should her voice have more impact than Sonja's or Carole's or Heather, or any of the women who defended him when Ramona kicked him out of her charity event? Kristen is towing the party line even now. Her outrage over being physically assaulted by Ramona was met with "that's just Ramona." Even the audience was telling her to let it go. But, now she is supposed to don a cape and lead a crusade against George when absolutely no one else was willing to do it?

I criticize the others plenty for their giggly school girl dance around George, but seeing as Kristin is the one at the center of this incident in this last episode which seems to have caused the most outrage, that is why I believe her voice would have the most impact right now. Clearly the hemorrhoids at Bravo don't see anything wrong in this last episode that aired. Then there is the burst hemorrhoid named Andy, well, he just thinks this episode was hilarious, so to him, the outrage is just probably coming from the silly or crazy women who don't have a sense of humor. His opinion is only reinforced by all the cast members, but specifically, Kristin, because it was her breast and her butt that was fondled in the episode he thought was just hilarious. Unless Kristin says otherwise, he will continue to think that.

 

As for the cape, she could don one if she wants, but that might be too last season.

 

With Ramona she did not tow the party line. She was a dog with a bone and good for her.

Edited June 10, 2014 by comatoast

[DebbieM4]

Of course I am not saying that. 

 

 

I am also not saying that a woman should be forced to take it if she feels uncomfortable, I just don't think that the woman is failing society if she's not made uncomfortable by it. 

 

I think Kristen was made uncomfortable by it.  Neither of us knows for sure, of course, but the way she acted immediately after looked to me as though she was not happy and didn't quite know what to say or do.  So she got away from him and left the room.  She didn't just smile and continue making the rounds at the party, grabbing some food (was there food at that lame party?), getting a drink, or joining a conversation.  She fled the scene and got as far away from him as she could.  So I don't think she's being true to herself now.  JMO, obviously

[SFoster21]

As far as the Georges of this world go, they usually know how to pick their victims. I bet he's unlikely to try his crap on someone who would deck him. So, absolutely, object loudly.

DebbieM, fabulous avatar. Are you an artist?

[LotusFlower]

I thought what we agreed on was that Andy Cohen is disgusting?

You are making me laugh today!

[MatildaMoody]

 

but seeing as Kristin is the one at the center of this incident in this last episode which seems to have caused the most outrage, that is why I believe her voice would have the most impact right now.

Last season after George poked Sonja in the back, Andy had some fame whore lawyer on WWHL (I can't remember which one but I remember that she was respected in some circles) along with Aviva. 

The lawyer was adamant that this was sexual assault and that George could and should have been arrested. The outrage from the fan base was just as if not more pronounced at that time, as it is now in Kristin's case.

 

Aviva's response that "Sonja wasn't wearing underwear" further enraged the lawyer and the audience as Aviva was obviously saying that the victim deserved what she got. The outrage and the "please keep George off my screen" comments were every bit as prevalent and yet here George is on our screen and being given even more disgusting screen time and a story line with his "engagement."

So, if we use the same logic, Sonja's voice would have had the most impact at that point. And what did Sonja say? Nothing that I could find about the incident. In fact, we saw Sonja laughing it off when Aviva used it as a joke in her toast to her dad and Cody. 

 

My point - I apologize for taking so long to make it - is that Sonja, who had many more fans last year than Kristen has this year, had every opportunity to speak out about it and she chose to brush it under the rug. Kristen is doing the same thing and is being vilified for not speaking out. 

 

It's as though Kristen is stuck in this weird situation where if she speaks out about being assaulted she is told to accept it because "that's just how Ramona is." But, when she is warned "hey, this guy might grope you, but don't worry, that's jut how he is." And she tries to just go along with it, she is somehow a coward who is endangering her daughter and other women out in the world. 

 

Sonja has a young daughter as well, no one was saying that she should have said or done something for her daughter's sake at the time.

 

But, Kristen is being called out. Maybe if Kristen had totally ignored it in her blog post the way Sonja did, the wrath wouldn't be as strong. 

 

ETA:

 

As far as the Georges of this world go, they usually know how to pick their victims. I bet he's unlikely to try his crap on someone who would deck him.

I agree. I notice that he hasn't tried this on Heather, and that for all of his gross talk, to Carole, he hasn't groped her - that we have seen. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by MatildaMoody

[shoegal]

I think Kristen was made uncomfortable by it. Neither of us knows for sure, of course, but the way she acted immediately after looked to me as though she was not happy and didn't quite know what to say or do. So she got away from him and left the room. She didn't just smile and continue making the rounds at the party, grabbing some food (was there food at that lame party?), getting a drink, or joining a conversation. She fled the scene and got as far away from him as she could. So I don't think she's being true to herself now. JMO, obviously

I would need to see the scene unedited to determine whether I think Kristen is being true to herself or not, but it seems to me that Kristin is not one to shy away from making it known that certain things are not okay with her, and she's had plenty of time to reflect and her reaction at this point seems to be fairly ambivalent.

ETA: upon rewatch, it's interesting that during the toast at the end, Kristin was standing right next to George. If she was that uncomfortable, I would guess that she'd keep her distance for the rest of the party.

Edited June 9, 2014 by shoegal

[LotusFlower]

It was Nancy Grace!

[MatildaMoody]

 

It was Nancy Grace!

 

HAHAHA! I knew it was a fame whore that had a following! I just couldn't remember her name for the life of me.

 

RE: George sizing up his victims. I wonder if he would have behaved the way he did with Kristen if her dick head husband had been by her side?

 

Also, did anyone notice how Maurio was telling George not to touch his wife, but at the same time he was laughing it off as some type of joke? That was so weird. Especially knowing what we know about them now.

Edited June 9, 2014 by MatildaMoody

[Higgins]

Some of us did say that about Sonja.

[LotusFlower]

Yup! I remember it well because I'm generally not a fan of Nancy Grace or her talk show and brand of sensationalism, but man, did she go after George! Kind of makes you understand how she gets her fans - cuz if you agree with her, it's fun to watch her go after her prey. It was also kind of refreshing because it was the only time I've ever seen a guest on WWHL look (and talk) of disgust about another Bravo-leberty (sp?) who was RIGHT THERE in the clubhouse! (George was the bartender behind the bar). Good tv!

[sasha206]

I agree.  And she clearly did not like it and seemed very uncomfortable, to the point of leaving the room.  Sure, she has every right to find his behavior okay.  But it was pretty obvious to me that she was flustered, caught off guard, and not happy about it.  Her frozen smile spoke volumes and she was clearly not sure how to react.  She did not look at all to me like someone who was caught up in a fun moment and easily brushed it off.   I also think that models are used to being seen undressed by many people and touched as clothing is fitted, adjusted, etc, but not necessarily having their body parts grabbed, fondled, and played with strictly for someone's sexual amusement.  And she certainly did not seem used to it.   Someone who was used to it would have continued to move around the party, talking to people, grabbing a drink, etc, acting just the same as she had before she was grabbed.  But that's not what she did.

 

Laughing and joking about it now, and acting as though it was harmless just shows me how shallow and spineless she is.  This was last summer, and in all the time since then she's said nothing to indicate how she really felt about what he did or to even hint that old men grabbing young women they have just met may not be okay.  How many times have we heard Kristen say, "That's NOT OKAY!!?  About a myriad of things, including the super-trivial.  Yet this she just lets pass with the equivalent of a wink and a smile.  Not just at the party.  Ever since then, nearly a year later.  

 

(Obviously it's not just old men who should not be grabbing young women.  No one of any age should be grabbing any part of anyone else's body without their consent.  And that includes an arm, a breast, or anything at all. Whether they have just met or not.  If that's a "thing" between friends, that's different, but most definitely not what happened here.)

 

I think I love you.  You have said everything I want to say in a much better way!  

[DebbieM4]

As far as the Georges of this world go, they usually know how to pick their victims. I bet he's unlikely to try his crap on someone who would deck him. So, absolutely, object loudly.

DebbieM, fabulous avatar. Are you an artist?

 

Thanks!  No, I'm not an artist.  I'm a writer.  No artistic ability at all!

I would need to see the scene unedited to determine whether I think Kristen is being true to herself or not, but it seems to me that Kristin is not one to shy away from making it known that certain things are not okay with her, and she's had plenty of time to reflect and her reaction at this point seems to be fairly ambivalent.

ETA: upon rewatch, it's interesting that during the toast at the end, Kristin was standing right next to George. If she was that uncomfortable, I would guess that she'd keep her distance for the rest of the party.

 

I completely agree that editing can misrepresent what happened in any situation.  But we did see Kristen fleeing and apparently distressed.  Sure, it could have been because she got an upsetting text or she got gum in her hair.  But based on everything I saw, I do think that she wasn't okay with what George did.  And where she was standing during the toast could have been very easily determined by Bravo as they attempted to get the camera shots they wanted.  It might not have been her choice to stand there just as it might not have been okay with her that he grabs all the girls and that night it was her turn.

 

So yes - Definitely what we're seeing could be completely not at all what happened or not at all the way people responded to it.  These women are Bravo's bitches, and in some ways all of us are too.

[MatildaMoody]

 

Laughing and joking about it now, and acting as though it was harmless just shows me how shallow and spineless she is. 

We don't know that she is laughing and joking about it now. We have two sentences in a blog that follows the same party line that all of the other women are following - that doesn't automatically equal shallow and spineless to me. At most it shows self preservation. At worst it shows misplaced diplomacy based on the actions of her co-workers. 

 

Are Sonja, Heather, Carole, and Ramona also spineless? They all laughed George off as the "charming old lech" last season - until Ramona took issue with Aviva. After that, Carole, Heather, and Sonja felt bad for the old pervert for being kicked out of Ramona's party.

Edited June 9, 2014 by MatildaMoody

[shoegal]

Thanks!  No, I'm not an artist.  I'm a writer.  No artistic ability at all!

 

I completely agree that editing can misrepresent what happened in any situation.  But we did see Kristen fleeing and apparently distressed.  Sure, it could have been because she got an upsetting text or she got gum in her hair.  But based on everything I saw, I do think that she wasn't okay with what George did.  And where she was standing during the toast could have been very easily determined by Bravo as they attempted to get the camera shots they wanted.  It might not have been her choice to stand there just as it might not have been okay with her that he grabs all the girls and that night it was her turn.

 

So yes - Definitely what we're seeing could be completely not at all what happened or not at all the way people responded to it.  These women are Bravo's bitches, and in some ways all of us are too.

I don't believe Bravo dictates who stands next to whom at events, nor do I believe that Kristin fled in distress, just like I don't believe that Cody fled the conversation with Ramona in tears as was edited/portrayed. I do believe that Kristin is now free to express her outrage if she feels like it, and from what I've seen she hasn't, which says to me that she isn't.

[LovetoSnark]

I don't like Kristen but It appeared to me that she was upset at being groped. Yet months later in her blog etc she diminished the act by George. Playing devils advocate here---Could there be a clause in the contracts that these reality players sign that they are prohibited from speaking their minds as long as they are under contract.. I am sure that Bravo reviews those blogs before they are put up--- they would be fools not to. Sometimes the blogs to me are a direct parroting of the nonsense that I have just watched.

 

 

oops I meant to say parroting instead of parody---- hence a little editing.

Edited June 10, 2014 by LovetoSnark

[ryebread]

These women are Bravo's bitches, and in some ways all of us are too.

 

 

Always.  In ALL ways.  /Ryan Serhant



[MatildaMoody]

 

I don't like Kristen but It appeared to me that she was upset at being groped. Yet months later in her blog etc she diminished the act by George. Playing devils advocate here---Could there be a clause in the contracts that these reality players sign that they are prohibited from speaking their minds as long as they are under contract.. I am sure that Bravo reviews those blogs before they are put up--- they would be fools not to. Sometimes the blogs to me are a direct parroting of the nonsense that I have just watched.

 

I have seen some of the Housewives - too bad they are mostly reviled- say that Bravo edits their blogs. Teresa from NJ and Nene from Atlanta have both said that they don't like blogging for Bravo because Bravo edits them. I have always thought that the real reason they choose to host their own blogs outside of Bravo is so they can control the comments. 

 

But, I have also seen where Bravo will delete negative comments about the both of them (as well as many other less liked howives - looking at you Tamra, Kyle, and TMCFR)  so I don't know where that whole thing lies.

 

I do know that the Bravo machine is not to be trusted. As a Devil's Advocate argument, I think that your's is a good one. 

Edited June 10, 2014 by MatildaMoody

[DebbieM4]

Always.  In ALL ways.  /Ryan Serhant



 

Ha!  I love it!  I'm actually watching Ryan right now!  

I think I love you.  You have said everything I want to say in a much better way!  

 

Thank you!  It's nice to be loved.  (Are we allowed to use smiley faces here?)

[ScoobieDoobs]

As I've said several times, I had enough of George & Veevs.  Fine, Andy Cohen.  You think these 2 are hilarious.  You wanna turn this into the George & Aviva shitfest, then watch your ratings & your career go into the shithole.  I'm checking out.  I have a replacement now.  Ladies of London is exactly what I'm looking for.  Catty bitches in expensive tacky dresses ripping each other to shreds in pretty restaurants & fancy schmancy parties & events.  Awesome!  I agree with Alex on this show.  It's just like season 1 of RHNY.  Buh-bye, George & Veevs.

[tulip555]

Perhaps Kristin doesn't believe she was assaulted by George. Sexual assault can be subjective, there are things that I would tolerate from a friend or acquaintance that I would not from a stranger. I think it's up to Kristin whether she felt threatened or offended by George, or if she feels she was assaulted.

I got the feeling she really didn't know what to do because she's on the show and didn't quite know much of a fuss she could make

[LovetoSnark]

As I've said several times, I had enough of George & Veevs.  Fine, Andy Cohen.  You think these 2 are hilarious.  You wanna turn this into the George & Aviva shitfest, then watch your ratings & your career go into the shithole.  I'm checking out.  I have a replacement now.  Ladies of London is exactly what I'm looking for.  Catty bitches in expensive tacky dresses ripping each other to shreds in pretty restaurants & fancy schmancy parties & events.  Awesome!  I agree with Alex on this show.  It's just like season 1 of RHNY.  Buh-bye, George & Veevs.

ScoobyDoobs, I am with you. I have had enough of George and Veevs! Haven't watched the Ladies of London yet----- but I will give it a try. I am so tired of the perversion, bullshit fights,drunkenness, etc. I don't plan to watch the up coming Rhony show.I

 

If  I want to hear/watch a threesome between a gorgeous woman, disgusting old turd, and a fame whore  or see a drunken woman make a move on another woman I can go to the adult video store and rent a DVD that probably even has a better script! The entire concept of the next episode makes me nauseous. If I were Sonja and knew all season long I had to do something like that I would stay drunk too. . The puppet-master Andy can kiss my butt. I am no longer one of his bitches ---- not  even on DVR!  

Edited June 10, 2014 by LovetoSnark

[film noire]

 

She fled the scene and got as far away from him as she could.  So I don't think she's being true to herself now.  JMO, obviously

 

IMO, even if she wasn't upset, she still needed to weigh in because a woman's body being fondled and groped by anyone (other than a baby) without explicit permission is not the standard we've said we're going to uphold in our society.

 

I may think the word “cunt” needs to be re-taken by women (so as to disempower people who use it as an insult) but when somebody uses that word in my presence (as an insult) I weigh in and shut it down. Despite my different take on the word, I understand I live in a larger world than the one in my own head so I follow the same process used in the past (as a  society) for out of bounds behavior.  Lots of people haven’t minded small-boned boys being pushed around to toughen them up, or racist slurs being bandied about, or women having their asses slapped in the halls of corporate America, but enough did so as to make it socially repugnant to perform or witness those acts.

So to my eye, whether Kristin was personally offended or not is beside the point. When your body is groped   -- without permission --  especially by a man who has a history of groping female body parts every chance he can get, you need to step up.  Explain why you either think it’s wrong, or if  Kristin really thinks it’s just peachy keen fine/boys will be dirty old men, that needs to be explained as well (beyond “take one for the team”; as if a female body being groped is a sporting event, with to-be-expected acts of molestation, and it’s all just part of bein’ a gal).

Edited June 10, 2014 by film noire

[comatoast]

So, if we use the same logic, Sonja's voice would have had the most impact at that point. And what did Sonja say? Nothing that I could find about the incident. In fact, we saw Sonja laughing it off when Aviva used it as a joke in her toast to her dad and Cody. 

 

My point - I apologize for taking so long to make it - is that Sonja, who had many more fans last year than Kristen has this year, had every opportunity to speak out about it and she chose to brush it under the rug. Kristen is doing the same thing and is being vilified for not speaking out. 

 

It's as though Kristen is stuck in this weird situation where if she speaks out about being assaulted she is told to accept it because "that's just how Ramona is." But, when she is warned "hey, this guy might grope you, but don't worry, that's jut how he is." And she tries to just go along with it, she is somehow a coward who is endangering her daughter and other women out in the world. 

 

Sonja has a young daughter as well, no one was saying that she should have said or done something for her daughter's sake at the time.

 

But, Kristen is being called out. Maybe if Kristen had totally ignored it in her blog post the way Sonja did, the wrath wouldn't be as strong. 

 

ETA:

I agree. I notice that he hasn't tried this on Heather, and that for all of his gross talk, to Carole, he hasn't groped her - that we have seen. 

I don’t think Kristin is a coward because she has proven she isn’t one when it comes to Ramona. I do think, based on the episode and her blog, that she sees nothing wrong with George’s behavior; therefore, by expecting it and going along with it on a national TV show, she is contributing to a message that says it is OK to grope women. Whether that results in greater misogyny and rising numbers of assaults on women overall, I myself do not know. But the message is still disgusting to me and that is why I am criticizing her.

 

I know for me, Kristin’s blog definitely added insult to injury. She basically said it was all OK. And I know some here see this differently, but I did not see anything in her behavior around George that indicated any level of discomfort. Oh, but later on in the engagement party scene, we are treated to like three of her signature overly-dramatic, I’m-so-totally-horrified faces when she hears about what Ramona said. We also get a TH of her saying it was so tacky and rude. Absolutely! But George groping you is not also tacky, rude, and deserving of one of your shocked faces? No "who does that" TH? Nothing?

 

Sonja, on the other hand, does seem a bit squeamish around George, even while going along with the trashy talk. And I do remember her telling him to not grab her ass again before the erection scene. Why would he think an erection to her back would be welcome? Plus, there was a TH with her saying something about it being gross, but at least it works. It might not have been much, but at least it was more than laughs and making it out to be totally normal.

Edited June 10, 2014 by comatoast

[DebbieM4]

 Oh, but later on in the engagement party scene, we are treated to like three of her signature overly-dramatic, I’m-so-totally-horrified faces when she hears about what Ramona said. We also get a TH of her saying it was so tacky and rude. Absolutely! But George groping you is not also tacky, rude, and deserving of one of your shocked faces? No "who does that" TH? Nothing?

 

 

 

That's the most annoying part of this whole thing for me.  Kristen is very easily shocked, horrified, and bent all out of shape, and she has no problem letting everyone know.  I don't think there's been an episode yet where we haven't been treated to one of her indignant, stunned O-faces.  But somehow - when a co-worker's father (who she doesn't know) proudly grabs her private areas and smirks about it - she laughs it off at the time and dismisses it as a "rite of passage" nearly a year later.

 

She never, ever rolls with the punches about anything.  Every tiny perceived slight results in the O-face and whiney complaining.  I can't even count how many times we've seen that.  Yet this gets brushed aside.  Ramona hands her flowers & an apology, and is criticized, but George fondles her for sport and that's okay.  

 

Comatoast, I know that you & I disagree about one point -  I do think she seemed uncomfortable & upset at the time.  The end result - either way - is the same though, IMO.  What he did was wrong, and I completely agree with you that her recent comments definitely  put the stamp of approval on what George did and she is clearly saying now that it was okay.  And all of this after knowing the disgusting thing he said about what he would do to Ramona at her funeral, which to me raises the level of his inappropriateness & way of thinking to a whole new even more disgusting level.  This man is vile and under no circumstances should he be encouraged.  Shame on her.

[Cheetosandchoc]

I am taking this off my DVR today. I just got caught up on this episode and find it worse than I thought it would be.

I have never been abused, but have for sure been made uncomfortable by comments from pervy old men plenty of times, particularly in my late teens and early twenties. I had been stunned and just put up with it at the time becuase I did not know better but it happened at three different jobs. I have three daughters. I don't want them to put up with that shit.

I seriously gag thinking about what George said he would do to Ramona's dead body.

I loved Luann and Sonjia's bike ride and pic nic scene.

[quaintirene]

With regard to Kristen's behavior with the egregious George, I suspect the reason for her apparent complaisance is the same as Carole's. Ungorgeous George is an Andy Cohen favorite. With AC in charge a Ho'Wife who wanted to stay on the payroll might well bite her tongue and smile rather than go off on his pet. Only Ramona has the guts and seniority to do that. It stinks. But the show stinks.