S14.E06: Optimism

[raven]

Quote

Sam and Charlie team up to get to the bottom of a string of random disappearances. Meanwhile, Jack believes that he has found a case and convinces Dean to partner-up with him on the hunt.

Airdate 2018.11.15

[gonzosgirrl]

The 'Then's have become so annoying. We literally saw some of this stuff last week. And clearly the Michael flashbacks they spoke of are them repeating the same two or three scenes over and over in the previouslies.

First of all, Dean checking in with the Chief if it's okay to take Jack on a hunt is patently ridiculous. And he was checking up on Mary and Not!Bobby? WTF?

Oddly, I didn't hate the 'old man' scene - it was clearly Dean's idea to set up Jack as her 'hero'. What is it with voice-over exposition in the show though?

Sam and Not!Charlie are boring. #SorryNotSorry What was the point of their hunt? Just so The Chief could teach Not!Charlie how noble hunting is?

So now we officially have Consumption!Jack. Oy. And they didn't seem too fussed to have left a necromancer out there.

Edited November 16, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Mulva]

Another hit out of the park!  Loved Jack tonight, he was adorable.

[Lady Calypso]

Ok, I really liked the episode. I did like Sam and Dean splitting up because it was with two people who I actually really like, and the episode, once again, wasn't crowded with a bazillion subplots like usual. That's probably why this season has really picked up the last few episodes for me. No Nick, no Mary/Bobby, no demons, no angels. Of course, the downside was no Cas... 

This episode had a lot of comedic moments in it, which worked for me. For example, the moment with silent Sam and Charlie in the truck at the beginning, and Sam using the fidget spinner? That is the type of humour I enjoy. Dean/Jack's ploy with Harper was fun as well. You could see the "oh no you didn't" look from Dean when Jack went off script and called him old man. That is a thing any teenager would say to any adult, which is why I didn't take it seriously. I also laughed at Jack's attempts with testing her as a demon. Everyone looked like they were having fun this episode, especially Jensen and Alex. 

Sam and Charlie's plot was really fantastic. It was a character plot between the two of them, which was fun. Charlie talking about her lost love Kara/Cara was pretty awesome. Felicia Day is always a gem to watch and I like that they found a way to bring her back with an altered version of Charlie. I like this Charlie as much as the original Charlie. Also, I wasn't really expecting their monster to be...that. And yeah, Sam was pushing Charlie to keep being a hunter, but she shut him down, at least. I like that she talked about her time in apocalypse world and what she had to go through. Ok, yes, Charlie needing to be convinced to keep hunting when she probably deserves some time to herself was annoying, but I love Charlie and wouldn't want her to go away. It was actually a fairly decent plot overall, even with its holes. Sam and Charlie bonded a bit and it was fun! 

I loved the Dean/Jack stuff a lot. I like that both have some residual guilt over Michael, both for different reasons, so it makes sense that they connected. I really like Jack telling Dean that he has nothing to feel guilty for. He does need to keep hearing it, even if he can't stop the guilt. As for their case, it was kind of obvious, but still fun. The guest actress looked like she was having a blast. And Dean/Jack's plans were all great to watch play out. The fact that Jack and Dean worked together and neither upstaged the other was great. Both captured zombie boyfriend together. Jack got to be the frontman with Harper while Dean got to fight zombie boyfriend and come up with the plans. It was an equal partnership....well, with Dean as the leader, of course. Dean was teaching Jack about being a better hunter, something that he needs to hear, and Jack was actually listening. I enjoy the Dean/Jack friendship. 

I think this episode established that both Sam and Dean have knowledge to share and they both have their strengths. 

No surprise by the ending but at least they revealed Jack's illness pretty quickly. We did only find out about it in his last appearance. 

Overall, it was a really fun episode and quite possibly one of my favourites in the last few years. I guess I'm trying to take advantage of these "smaller" episodes before we get forced back with seven different subplots...or Nick....or Mary/Bobby again...or other things I don't like. 

Also....I know the Previouslies section is usually skippable, but the way they edited it this episode was actually kind of decent? 

[BoxManLocke]

After letting teenage girls go on hunts, Sam is now guilt-tripping people into staying in the hunter life.

 

What the hell is going on.

 

Directing and music were horrendous and the episodes felt like a whole lot of nonsense even though Jack/Dean had some fun parts.

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't like Speight's directing. Like, at all. His penchant for 'homage' is already old. And the editing is so choppy, it's hard to invest in anything.

[Jediknight]

Jack's first crush turns out to be an insane killer witch, Sam's loves die, and Dean eats his true love (pie).  He's truly a Winchester.

Sam implements the buddy system, and then lets Charlie go off by herself to investigate.  Come on, Sam, don't be like that.

[mertensia]

I laughed during the "Stayin' Alive" bit. 

I did not see the whole "it turns them both on" bit coming.

The musca are a little too Grimm for me.

[ILoveReading]

Why the hell is Dean asking Sam for permission and running things by Sam.  He's an adult.  Imagine if that was reversed.  Dean would be accused of controlling Sam.

At least the capture was a team effort. 

I was right about no consistency.  The monster didn't recognized Dean as Michael or care about the meat suit. 

Did I mention that Dean doesn't need permission from chief.  Screw that.

Dean checking on Bobby, and mentoring and giving advice without needing to shame people.  He's a much better leader than Sam.

It seems that the whole purpose of Sam and Charlie was so all wise and supreme leader Chief could guilt trip Charlie into staying.   Can't have any flaws or imperfections on Chiefs record. 

I did like Dean's plan.  I've missed that out of the box thinking.  

The editing and directing were terrible.  All choppy and weird. 

At least they didn't throw Dean under the bus to pimp Jack.  He made mistakes on this hunt.  Dean actually was allowed to say that.  Take note "Chief"

Again Dean doesnt' need Sam's permission.  I hate this.   I hate that he has to clear everything with Sam.

But Charlie can hunt alone.  Roll my eyes.  At least charlie doesn't listen to Chief

The Sam pimping is getting over the top ridiculous.   If you have to work that hard to sell something maybe something is getting lost in translation in your writing.

 

9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't like Speight's directing. Like, at all. His penchant for 'homage' is already old. And the editing is so choppy, it's hard to invest in anything.

what was the homage

Edited November 16, 2018 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

What was the homage

The 'walk' from Saturday Night Fever. 

[DeeDee79]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

It seems that the whole purpose of Sam and Charlie was so all wise and supreme leader Chief could guilt trip Charlie into staying.   Can't have any flaws or imperfections on Chiefs record. 

I haven't watched yet but I assumed that the pairing would be so Sam could alleviate his guilt over OG Charlie getting killed by the Stynes. I figured if Dean immediately went there when he first saw her last season then Sam would have a similar scene.

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I haven't watched yet but I assumed that the pairing would be so Sam could alleviate his guilt over OG Charlie getting killed by the Stynes. I figured if Dean immediately went there when he first saw her last season then Sam would have a similar scene.

Its not even mentioned.  She wants to walk away because she's seen too much death and destruction.   Sam guilt's her into staying by comparing to her to the Flyman.  

Edited November 16, 2018 by ILoveReading

[DeeDee79]

Huh. It seems that my scenario would have been less annoying :(

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Its not even mentioned.  She wants to walk away because she's seen too much death and destruction.   Sam guilt's her into saying by comparing to her to the Flyman.  

[Myrelle]

This was an episode that is so easy to skip.

Unless you like Soapernatural starring WoobieJack and Charlie the Perfect, who simply must keep hunting because she's just So. Awesome.- and nothing like this world Charlie-Oh, except for that.

Gag me.

But then we got the Jack Show-complete with his falling into a coma at the end.

Ugh.

I don't know which hunt was worse.

Probably Sam and Charlie because at least the hunt with Jack and Dean turned out to be somewhat entertaining while also being completely predictable. 

Jack swooned at the end and yes, Charlie Sue was talked into continuing to hunt by Chief at the end.

Oh, and Jack has a stalker now-See. Soapernatural.

Ugh and Blech.

Skip it and then you also won't have to see Dean kow-towing to Sam-even though it was only over Jack which somehow doesn't bother me as much.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Myrelle

[Morrigan2575]

I freaking loved this episode, it was fun and entertaining from starting to finish. 

I'm not a Charlie fan and I personally think Felicia Day is a poor actress (she pretty much plays Felicia Day in everything) but, I thought she did really well in the truck scene talking about Kara.

I loved the Stayin' Alive part, got a big smile on my face, I was so entertained/distracted that I forgot he was a Dead Man Walking.

I was shocked by the Harper reveal, I remembered thinking when she got Snarly over the keys/unlocked door that I really liked her and hoped she stuck around. I was not prepared for Crazy Necromancer Harper and her Killer Zombie boyfriend  and their weird sex games. I find it oddly fun that she's crushing on Jack, I guess she'll show up again before the end of the season.

Lastly m, hands down best part was Sense/Dean's reaction to Jack calling him and Old Man. I loved it, he was so hurt and annoyed and in disbelief. LOL

[Myrelle]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Lastly m, hands down best part was Sense/Dean's reaction to Jack calling him and Old Man. I loved it, he was so hurt and annoyed and in disbelief. LOL

I find it interesting that Dean is always the one in the more vulnerable position when they have "plans" like this-same as in the earlier episode with Dr. Ellicott-all part of my theory that they are trying to turn Jack into the "new Sam".

I hated that part, but if you skip this episode you won't see that either. ;-)

[trudysmom]

I enjoyed this episode for the most part.  I usually like Speight's directing, his episodes seem to move along at a good clip, when it's over I think 'wow that was fast'.   I didn't like Dean's "clear it with Sam" stuff, but in the end he took Jack along and, except that Jack looks like a high school boy, they did well together.  I liked things from both stories, Felicia Day was really good in her scene in the truck, talking about her old life.  Sam just seemed flat, to me.  Like he was just mouthing the words.  I did like the fidget spinner though.  

Dean got to eat pie, yay.  Jack passed out but it looks like next week he's driving Baby?  Must be a case of 24 hour consumption.  All the AU hunters were out on hunts or something, yay again. They can stay gone.

[bettername2come]

They used "Christo!" for the first time (I think) since it's introduction 13 years ago! They threw that in for the old timers like me.  I really liked Jack in this episode. Sam had a good line with Fake Charlie that I didn't get written down, but am totally posting in the Obsession thread when I get the whole thing. Loved Dean and Jack's dynamic in the setting up Jack to be a hero scene, although the "old man" line was clearly not approved by Dean in advance. Great use of the library set for the fight scene. Loved "Staying Alive." I love Jack. I don't think he's in any danger of being killed off, but still I was sad when he fell down bleeding. 

I don't care for New Charlie and even I thought Sam was being completely unfair comparing her repeatedly to Original Recipe Charlie. Man, I wish we could trade New Charlie for New Kevin Tran. He had more potential. Although, credit to Felicia Day for making this Charlie feel very different.

Edited November 16, 2018 by bettername2come

[gonzosgirrl]

I really, really, thought, when Not!Charlie talked about this one last case before retiring, she was a goner. That is just about the oldest trope in storytelling and I am amazed that Show resisted it. There is supposed to be a death that haunts Sam and I figured it would be a Soapernatural thing to do to make Sam feel responsible for her death twice, LOL.

[Myrelle]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I really, really, thought, when Not!Charlie talked about this one last case before retiring, she was a goner. That is just about the oldest trope in storytelling and I am amazed that Show resisted it. There is supposed to be a death that haunts Sam and I figured it would be a Soapernatural thing to do to make Sam feel responsible for her death twice, LOL.

Oh man, I wish.

That pairing AND the Lurve Story of Charlie and Tara was a complete snooze-fest to this fan.

[BlueSapphire]

They’ve already used a few of the classic soap storyline tropes, but come on, where’s the surprise baby and the amnesia?  Maybe that’s being saved for the second half.

[ILoveReading]

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I really, really, thought, when Not!Charlie talked about this one last case before retiring, she was a goner. That is just about the oldest trope in storytelling and I am amazed that Show resisted it. There is supposed to be a death that haunts Sam and I figured it would be a Soapernatural thing to do to make Sam feel responsible for her death twice, LOL.

I wasn't surprised because that would put a blemish on Chief's record.  So I knew she wasn't killed but I knew she wouldnt' stay. 

Kind of hypocritical of him when he ran at every opportunity.  So why the sudden 180.  Is it because he know has adoring flunkies.  Even Jared looks so uncomfortable with these lines. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by ILoveReading

[BoxManLocke]

Can't believe I was hopeful at some point that the reduced episode order would somehow help Dabb with pacing and we'd get more Sam/Dean together since it would be like 4 less weeks of work for the guys.

 

Six episodes in it's like the season hasn't even started, and J² get the absolute bare minimum screen time, and separated too, so there's even less stuff to shoot.

 

Honestly if they were so adamant on reducing their work load that much, season should have been cut to 13 episodes.

Edited November 16, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[tessathereaper]

42 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Its not even mentioned.  She wants to walk away because she's seen too much death and destruction.   Sam guilt's her into staying by comparing to her to the Flyman.  

Yeah but Sam's an "awesome" leader, guilting people into being hunters.

I would LOVE if Sam's lesson was to be made to remember that hunting is a dirty, deadly bloody business.  Of course that won't happen on Dabbnatural where he wants to make hunting seem glamorous.

[mertensia]

58 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

I was right about no consistency.  The monster didn't recognized Dean as Michael or care about the meat suit.

I don't know why Vance would recognize Dean; Michael didn't meet with him.

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

Can't believe I was hopeful at some point that the reduced episode order would somehow help Dabb with pacing and we'd get more Sam/Dean together since it would be like 4 less weeks of work for the guys.

I never felt like the number of episodes was the problem.  The problem is Dabb.  He doesnt' know how to tell  a story.  he just slaps a bunch of stuff together and hopes something sticks.

I was hoping that the reduced order might have increased Jensen and Jared's screen time.  I'd rather 13 episodes where they work full time rather than 20 where they get about 10minutes per episode.

[ZennyKenny]

My feelings about this episode are very uneven:

- Disappointed that they used all those Michael clips to gear me up into thinking that this was going to be a main story arc episode.

- I I really enjoyed the Dean/Jack bonding scenes.

- Dean reacting to being called "old man" was easily my favorite part of the episode. Jenson is just so good with facial expressions.

- I got so bored with the Jack/Harper conversation on the house.

- The fly-man hybrid. Ew. Just, ew.

- Having just watched the first 5 & 1/2 seasons, I am really really REEEEALLY not a fan of Sam trying to dissuade Charlie from leaving the hunter life. IMO, that goes against one of the core themes of the show. What happened to "this life only ends one way: bloody!"?

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

Disappointed that they used all those Michael clips to gear me up into thinking that this was going to be a main story arc episode.

I think those were the flashbacks we were promised. 

[S Cook Productions]

45 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

They’ve already used a few of the classic soap storyline tropes, but come on, where’s the surprise baby and the amnesia?  Maybe that’s being saved for the second half.

I do love me a good ol’ amnesia story! Lol 

[Wynne88]

I liked the humor.  The 'Stayin Alive' song was perfect.  It was fun watching Dean's reaction when Jack would say ridiculous things - it reminded me a lot of when he first took Castiel hunting and Cas held his badge upside down.  I even liked the little stuff, like while the waitress was saying that sometimes there was sex without courting, and Dean gave the glass rooster (aka cockerel) a look and pointedly turned it away.  Although I'll always prefer the brothers hunting together, I thought that given how much Jack and Dean have in common at the moment in terms of guilt over Michael, it was good to have them spend some time together.  Hopefully it helped them both.  

Sam and Charlie's case had too much sitting and talking, and although I liked Sam messing with the fidget thing and his line about having read all the books, their part of the episode just didn't do a lot for me.

For what it's worth, I didn't see Dean asking Sam for permission to go on the hunt.  It seemed to me that he was simply telling Sam that they were going, which was considerate.  Sam suggested someone else could take it, but never told him 'no'.  (Nor do I think Dean would have listened if he had.)  There's a lot of dislike of Sam's role as 'Chief', and I agree that it's not a good fit.  But while other characters have mentioned how great he is (ad nauseam), I don't see Sam bragging about it.  He has implemented some common sense things, but he knows he has also made big mistakes.  

[Ninamags]

I enjoyed this for the most part.  Dean and newbie Jack did work well together. 

So did Sam and Charlie.

didnt like that Sam and Dean didn't touch base at all.  I've read that Jensen and Jared have had very different work schedules and I guess this is that. I don't like it. 

[BoxManLocke]

I'll give credit to Yockey for something, the way he wrote Charlie is to me a somewhat "realistic" depiction of someone who is from an alternate universe and the affect that has on Sam makes sense : the awkwardness, the fact that he can't forget about old Charlie, and the fact that she's a very different person in many aspects.

 

For some reason they skipped all of that stuff with FakeBobby, Sam and Dean don't seem to give a crap when he's around when they should feel awkward as hell.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still loathe the concept of alternate characters since they're just glorified resurrections and all about that fanservice. Besides Sam ruined all the positives I had gathered before when he forced her to keep hunting, which basically goes against EVERYTHING Sam and Dean ever stood for.

 

I don't know if they want Sam to have an epiphany and realize his stint as Chief Parasite has turned him into an asshole, but he should never behave like that in the first place.

[SueB]

My 'The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly' first thoughts:

The Good:
- Zombies!  It's been a while since we had a zombie.  Glad they recalled the stake thru the coffin lore.  
- Halley the batshit crazy librarian.  She was fun -- I expect her to visit Jack someday.
- Jack & Dean on the case.  Hit all the right notes for me. I REALLY need someone to write 'the Talk' scene fic.  Because it's a crime we didn't get to see it (maybe it's still coming someday).
- Jack showing Dean the mirror when it comes to letting shit go.  I loved those shout outs because Dean knows what he's telling Jack is true.  He knows (logically) that what Jack is telling him is true.  And he can see how both are struggling to shake off the guilt.
- A lot of the comedic beats -- 'I bet they're doing something interesting right now.' cuts to boredom stakeout moment.  Speight had a bunch of those moments and I enjoyed them.
- How different Charlie is.  She's experienced love and wants to settle down.  I like that she's got snark but she's a different person.
- Continuity shout-out about going to visit Mary & Bobby.

The Bad:
- The Goldblum didn't work for me.  And WHY would you leave his carcass and dung nest for someone to find? And GROSS but probably not unreasonable that his own kind came and took away the body.  But it was a weird coda-like scene that I didn't need.
- Why do they treat Jack like he's less capable than Maggie?
- Why didn't Sam call Dean when he left w/ Charlie?  Not that Sam has to ask permission, but don't these guys talk every day?  That was weird.

The Ugly:
- Dean should never have to ask Sam permission to take Jack on a hunt.  Maybe if it was one of Sam's AU newbies, but Jack?  Nope. 
- Sam lobbying for Charlie to stay.  If she wants to go try 'normal', Sam should let her.  Now if his argument was that AUMichael might be hunting down the old hunters... .maybe.  But AUCharlie was forced into the life.  She doesn't have to stay.
 

Bottom Line:  Lots of fun scenes.  I enjoyed the chemistry between the two pairings and the necromancer librarian villain.  The bug hunt was meh and Sam should let Charlie try a normal life.

[catrox14]

This was stupid and terrible.

Also, fuck you, Dabb and Yockey. You have the gall to have Jack use "Christo" but the boys haven't remembered to use it  for 13 fucking years.  That completely took me out of this if I wasn't already out because I don't fucking care about Jack and his crushes.  JFC. This was garbage from beginning to end save a few moments.  The music was awful and I kept thinking...what dumb show am I watching?

They really are trying to turn Sam into Dean and Jack into Cas. I don't find it endearing or cute when Cas isn't even present in the last what 3 episodes? Fuck you, show.  I kind of hate Jack now. 

I don't see Sam's relating to Charlie as "empathy".  I see it as self involved.

I will say though, that I'm relieved that Charlie remained a lesbian in the AU. And I also liked the idea that the war between Michael and Lucifer took out the AU's electronics. I actually found that 100% intriguing. 

Other than that, it was stupid IMO. A disappointing effort from Yockey and I am 100% convinced he didn't write this.

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, ZennyKenny said:

- Having just watched the first 5 & 1/2 seasons, I am really really REEEEALLY not a fan of Sam trying to dissuade Charlie from leaving the hunter life. IMO, that goes against one of the core themes of the show. What happened to "this life only ends one way: bloody!"?

I blame that on Robbie Thompson when he decided Charlie had to have a "magical quest".

ETA: Sam's speech about "maybe other people will do this because we do this" or whatever the fuck that was....was just bad.  Stop giving Sam speeches that don't sound like words he would ever say.  Just stop it.

[catrox14]

And another thing.  Dean isn't going to sit around acting helpless when Jack collapsed. He's far more capable in an emergency than that. 

I am so disappointed in this episode (and no I didn't have "misaligned expectations".  I did expect better from Yockey. 

[AnimeMania]

I don't know why Charlie didn't go to Chicago and see if this world's Kara had a bakery. Then she would have a good reason to stop being a Hunter.

[BabySpinach]

Why would we ever want a fleshed out Michael!Dean story when we can watch a two-year-old manbaby almost get laid, or suffer a romantically tragic illness? To be fair, he was perfectly bearable in this episode, which is about the highest compliment I'm ever going to give this character. If he STAYS IN HIS DAMN LANE from now on, I could grudgingly put up with Nougat Sue. 

The complete lack of any Michael!Dean automatically lowered my overall enjoyment of this episode. I'm still waiting on those flashbacks and some answers, a little less patiently now. There's really nothing here that I'm curious enough to speculate over. Jack's illness seems to have taken center stage for the conceivable future. To that, I can only say that I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK, especially since this will suck up screentime that should have gone to an actual lead's story. 

Spoiler

The promo for next week looks like one of those schmaltzy, manipulative tear-jerkers where the main character has a terminal illness and they're trying to find the meaning of life or whatever. Soapernatural, full steam ahead! Michael who?

Once again, Dean came across as a far better leader, strategist, and mentor than Sam. If the writers hadn't so clearly demonstrated that they have no grasp of subtlety or subtext, I would have sworn that this was done on purpose. Sam sometimes exhibits this Nice Guy(tm) Syndrome where he (and the writers) believes that he's being wise and helpful, but in reality he comes across as a condescending know-it-all. His attempt to talk a stripper into going to nursing school, mentioned in 13.05, was supposed to be charming but made Sam appear to assume that he knew what was better for a woman than she knew herself. Same case with Charlie, here. Stop telling her what she's supposed to want, "Chief"...

This relates to a serious problem with the current portrayal of hunting, that it's a noble quest that anyone can and should undertake. Even as recently as Asa Fox 12.06, this was clearly not the case. His life was presented in a frank montage that ended in a sudden, brutal death. Yet Sam is trying to talk Charlie into a potential fate like that? Ugh. Dabb's simplistic thinking in a nutshell: saving people = good, hunting = saving people, therefore hunting = good!

There's no mention of the traumas that usually drive people into hunting, how they're already cursed or damaged in some permanent way. It's basically what Dean summed up back in Wendigo 1.02, that their own family was screwed up but it was worth trying to prevent it from happening to others. Seems like Dabb only remembers the second part of that. It used to just be Charlie in her little fantasy bubble, but this new philosophy has now spread to naive rookies like Jack and Maggie, too.

At least Dean was cool and competent. He thought of the smart plans, came to Nougat Boy's rescue, and the latter didn't obnoxiously show him up. Their bonding scenes actually weren't half bad, and were specific to their characters' pasts with Michael. But the inevitable focus that Jack's woobie illness will merit just makes me bitter over Michael!Dean's aborted screentime. 

This Charlie was less gratingly perky than the original. She's more world-weary and less arrogant and self-satisfied, but I still don't buy her as a badass, "pure steel" (gag) military type. Not only has she refused to tie up her long hair once, she's whimpered and cried and needed rescuing multiple times in previous appearances. She didn't pimp Sam as the Best Leader Evar, nor did she defer to him, so that was a plus. 

A breezy, harmless 40 minutes that still managed to piss me off for the complete absence of the only story I'm actually interested in.

Edited November 16, 2018 by BabySpinach

[juppschmitz]

5 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Oh man, I wish.

That pairing AND the Lurve Story of Charlie and Tara was a complete snooze-fest to this fan.

The perky red head and her true love t̶̶a̶̶r̶̶a̶ Kara. Oh, how original, Not!Joss Whedon!Dabb.

5 hours ago, BlueSapphire said:

They’ve already used a few of the classic soap storyline tropes, but come on, where’s the surprise baby and the amnesia?  Maybe that’s being saved for the second half.

I wouldn't mind one bit if a big reveal was that Dean was adopted. What with his bad table manners and his being a "dick" he can't truly be a genetic Winchester...

That would be my dream come true.

[juppschmitz]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

And I also liked the idea that the war between Michael and Lucifer took out the AU's electronics.

So Dabb's robbing ideas from Dark Angel as well as Buffy. Smooth. 

[ZennyKenny]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I will say though, that I'm relieved that Charlie remained a lesbian in the AU. And I also liked the idea that the war between Michael and Lucifer took out the AU's electronics. I actually found that 100% intriguing. 

Tbh that sounds like a much better episode that I would have loved to have watched.

[hunenka]

I enjoyed the Dean & Jack storyline, it was fresh and rather nicely balanced (no idiot Dean, luckily), with Dean clearly being in the mentor role but letting Jack pull a lot of the weight too. And I loved what he said to Jack about making mistakes and learning from them at the end.

I know a lot of people don’t like Jack, but I think Alex is a really good actor, so unless the script is outrageously woobifying Jack, he’s one of the most enjoyable characters on the show now. Especially his delivery of those comedic lines where Jack doesn’t realize he’s being awkward or just plain weird are really good (way better than what Misha is doing in similar scenes as Cas).

And the “old man” exchange was priceless. I think it worked so well (aside from Jensen’s hilarious acting, of course) because the whole episode made it clear that Dean is in fact not some useless old man.

Sam and AU!Charlie were in parts boring, in parts very bad. I wanted to yell “Yes!” at the screen when Charlie talked about getting away from hunting. (What a nice change from our Charlie’s belief that hunting is some awesome magical quest… which Dean tried to talk her out of, unsuccessfully.) Sam’s weird motivational speeches about people and how Charlie needs to stay were cringeworthy.

I only hope that Charlie didn’t actually change her mind about leaving, and just said whatever Sam wanted to hear because after being stuck in a car with him and his speeches all day, she just had to shut him up.

 

Oh, and I loved Dean's distaste of the term "hunting buddies"!

Edited November 16, 2018 by hunenka

[hunenka]

7 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

After letting teenage girls go on hunts, Sam is now guilt-tripping people into staying in the hunter life.

What the hell is going on.

Curiously though, Sam seemed really worried and uncertain about Dean and Jack going on a hunt, even going as far as to suggest sending some other hunters to work the case. So he trusts Maggie to hunt on her own, but Dean watching over Jack on a hunt is too dangerous?

[devlin]

I admit I don’t pay attention during sam scenes so I probably missed something but why was sam surprised that AU!charlie was living with her girlfriend before the war

Edited November 16, 2018 by devlin

[hunenka]

21 minutes ago, devlin said:

I admit I don’t pay attention during sam scenes so I probably missed something but why was sam surprised that AU!charlie was living with her girlfriend before the war

Because "our" Charlie didn't have any girlfriend (at least not when Sam and Dean knew her).

Though it's a bit surprising that Sam was so surprised (*g*) by this. The AU world was literally a different world, so what exactly he found so shocking about this particular difference escapes me.

[companionenvy]

3 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I don't know why Charlie didn't go to Chicago and see if this world's Kara had a bakery. Then she would have a good reason to stop being a Hunter.

I'm still expecting this to happen eventually.

I think if Charlie had been planning on something like that, Sam wouldn't have tried to talk her out of it. Instead, she seemed to be planning on running away and closing herself off from the world. 

Really liked the Dean and Jack plot - fun dynamics between them, and fun villain. Though I'm not sure if I need the necromancer to come back, as I assume she will.

[AnimeMania]

Just now, companionenvy said:

Really liked the Dean and Jack plot - fun dynamics between them, and fun villain. Though I'm not sure if I need the necromancer to come back, as I assume she will.

If Jack's illness get worst and he dies, then you will be glad the necromancer lady is around to bring him back.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

So Dabb's robbing ideas from Dark Angel as well as Buffy. Smooth. 

And Revolution. Hey, maybe Kripke's ghost is haunting them. 

[juppschmitz]

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And Revolution. Hey, maybe Kripke's ghost is haunting them. 

I never saw Revolution, but I take your word for it!

[ahrtee]

Bottom line first:  sort of enjoyable.  They at least avoided most of the things people here were afraid of:  making Dean into an idiot/dick again.  Making Jack into the romantic lead.  Having Charlie fawn all over Sam.  Considering how so many people were pre-emptively hating the ep based on spoilers and tweets, maybe they've decided that lowering expectations is the way to make mediocre episodes seem good?

Random thoughts:

1.  I was glad they didn't go the easy route of making Dean into a dick towards anyone (including the waitress, the librarian and Jack).  And even the pie-eating scene didn't show him shovelling food in and eating with his mouth open.  (side note:  is this the first time we've seen Dean eat a cream pie?  Is that a nod to the pie-in-the-face bits they've been doing BTS?)  Second side note:  the diner was called "Dick's".  When I saw that, I feared the worst, but maybe it was in honor of Speight.

2. Although I liked the fact that they gave the obnoxious fidget-spinner to Sam instead of Dean (and he was enjoying it way too much) it did seem a little OTT/OCC for him. *shrugs*

3. Why did Dean have to actually *go* and check up on Mobby?  They're adults, experienced hunters, and apparently went off to "bond."  Wouldn't a phone call/text work well enough to make sure they were all right?  Wouldn't they kind of resent having an adult son checking up on them in person?  I know, it was to get Dean out of the way so he wouldn't go on the hunt with Sam, but... *shrugs again.*

4. I didn't think Dean was asking Sam's permission to go on the hunt with Jack, just letting him know about it, in case things went sideways.  But I wasn't paying a lot of attention at the time.  

5. Why did it take Dean so long to get to the library after the boyfriend ran out?  He couldn't have been more than a few seconds behind him, and don't zombies...shamble?  :)  But the guy walked to the library, beat on the door, the girl let him in (and monologued) and Jack was ducking around hiding before Dean showed up.  Even if he was casing the place, it took an awfully long time.  Which brings me to:

6.  Zombies.  I guess lore changes depending on what they want for the stories.  Past SPN zombies either didn't eat at all (the girlfriend in CSPWDT) or ate guts (in Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid).  But this one supposedly ate her admirers, but apparently only ripped out their throats.  (Maybe she made him into a zom-pire?  Werebie?)

Second part of that:  it was nice to see them remember zombie lore from season 2, but how exactly were they going to stake him in his grave?  Apparently no one knew he was dead, so where was he buried?  Behind the library?  Or would any grave do, so they just had to dig one and stake him in it?  

7. Shout out to Dark Angel.  I'm surprised Charlie didn't call it "the Pulse."  But disrupting electronics causes mass confusion/disruptions to civilization.  It doesn't destroy it (or we never would have survived long enough to develop electronics in the first place.)  I guess we can assume Michael did more things than just that, which would mean (IMO) that Charlie would be more valuable discussing ways to stop Michael (or at least strategizing on what he might be doing) instead of going on random hunts.  And maybe that should be the lure Sam used to keep her with them.

8.  Dangling ends:  why did the fly people pick up the body (which, as others have pointed out, *wasn't* salted and burned but just left for anyone to find?)  Was it to show "monsters are people, too" or as a hint they might be back, and pissed?  Is necromancer/librarian going to be stalking Jack?  Has Charlie decided to keep hunting after all?  Is Sam no longer so essential to the running of the bunker so he can finally get some sleep (or go on random hunts)?  I'm assuming Jack will be cured shortly so there's not a lot of tension there.