S08.E06 Return to Murder House

[coppersin]

I don't have anything substantial to add but credit where it's due: Cody Fern made the leather outfit work.

[Rap541]

18 hours ago, Nutjob said:

AHS has offended the satanists, everyone.

(sigh) I'm qualifying this with *I am not a member of the Church of Satan*.

I thought this was a somewhat offensive and certainly inaccurate depiction of Anton LaVey. 

Look, I'm not saying he didn't love the lurid or call himself the Black Pope... but the "religion" of the Church was really a variation of atheism and most of the black mass/dressing up like the Devil was about pissing off the religious sorts and not about raising up the AntiChrist and murdering all of humankind. Considering that Anton LaVey was a real, non serial killer person, I can see why friends and family *might* take offense at depicting him as faking his own death so he can help raise the Antichrist... a figure he didn't actually believe in.

Frankly, AHS is not at its best when it creates parodies of historical figures. There are survivors of the Jonestown Massacre who I suspect weren't amused by the Jim Jones stuff last season, likewise the Andy Warhol/Valerie Solaris stuff. 

Plus, honestly, for Anton LaVey to have been secretly alive, in 2015/16 whenever this is set? We all do realize he would have been a man of about 85 years of age and not the 45-50ish guy we saw?

[sashayshante]

There really doesnt seem to be any concern for accuracy. I mentioned before that Dinah cited the wrong song from The Hardy Boys episode she mentioned. It took all of ten seconds to go to you tube, find the episode, and hear the correct song used.

 

As for Cody Fern in the Rubber Man suit, I'll just leave this here. 13,000 comments and still going.

[Terrafamilia]

The fact that numerous characters over the seasons are played by the same actors is something for us, the viewers. To the the characters themselves they do not look the same (unless and until someone in-story comments on an uncanny similarity).

Some wildly pie in the sky speculation and prognostication - Since it seems the reason Michael has such powerful magical woowoo powers is because he is actually the SoS rather than a manwich, he may have been awarded the title Supreme but he isn't really a Supreme. But since Cordelia has been physically waning there must be a real next Supreme out there. So here's where I go way out onto the end of that limb - the real next Supreme will turn out to be either Emily (!) or Timothy (!!) who, because of their potential supreminess are only merely dead (and get better) and not most sincerely dead. This will at least rehabilitate a story line that never went anywhere.

The above is almost certainly completely wrong.

[PeaceLily2]

On 10/19/2018 at 7:19 AM, Captanne said:

I am so old* that I took the "Montgomery" reference to be a cute shout out to Elizabeth Montgomery who starred in "Bewitched" in the 60s.

 

*And by "so old" I mean that I can't remember characters from a current show in 2018 but I can from my childhood in the 1960s.  Yeah.  That old.

 

ETA:  "Tear jerker" made me laugh.

Who are the other Montgomery’s Billie was talking about? 

[Female83]

7 hours ago, PeaceLily2 said:

Who are the other Montgomery’s Billie was talking about? 

She was talking about Charles and Nora Montgomery who were the original owners. 

[Rap541]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:20 AM, sashayshante said:

There really doesnt seem to be any concern for accuracy. I mentioned before that Dinah cited the wrong song from The Hardy Boys episode she mentioned. It took all of ten seconds to go to you tube, find the episode, and hear the correct song used.

My small counter argument - because I am not that invested in defending the memory of Anton LaVey - is that there's a big difference between getting a song mention from a rather obscure tv show from the late 1970s wrong, and depicting a real if minor historical figure in a way that that is wholly inaccurate to his beliefs and views. Anton LaVey didn't believe in the AntiChrist and didn't even really believe in religion. I get why his friends and family are offended at the idea of his being depicted as *faking his own death to raise the AntiChrist* - that seems like a bigger accuracy issue than misquoting what song was on that episode of the Hardy Boys.

[willco]

I've been running behind on my tv viewing, and just finished this episode today. In my opinion, it was the most enjoyable one this season. Not so much because of the Murder House tie-in, as I thought that was a good season ( but not my favorite)-- I just think more happened, even if it happened in the past, and they explained more than they have before. It took them awhile to get around to it, but they got it done. Now we have a clear idea of how Michael became who he is in the present timeline. By the way, if you have trouble remembering how things happened or just want some insight into each episode, there are quite a few recaps on You tube. I have a couple that I like and I always watch them, and they do a good job of explaining things and also pointing out little Easter Eggs that I also miss, like the Pepper actress being one of the Satanists . I see that a lot of you guys caught that, but I didn't.

 

I do find it funny that the Church of Satan is offended at how they were portrayed ! How often is belief in God or even religion in general mocked by tv and movies, and all sorts of famous people ( no need to name names, they know who they are) feel free to say how dumb it is to believe in any higher power, yet Heaven forbid ( pun intended) that Satanists are portrayed badly 1 time and are offended ! Maybe LaVay didn't actually do human sacrifice, but he sure didn't contribute much of anything positive to the world. By his own description, he was a selfish, self-centered person, and proud of it. That's basically what that religion teaches- appease your own needs, do what makes you feel good, and to Hell ( again, pun intended) with everyone else. Sorry for the rant, but they don't seem to be a group that needs anyone's sympathy.

[DangerousMinds]

I think it's more about lazy writing. Getting historical facts and figures completely wrong.

[sheetmoss]

On 10/19/2018 at 7:21 PM, LoneHaranguer said:

And a good writer can make almost anyone look good. It can be hard to tell who to credit when things go well.

Maybe Sarah Paulson directing helped as well?

[gunderda]

coincidence or no..... Michael and Tate had the same hairstyle? 

[Ohiopirate02]

13 hours ago, willco said:

I've been running behind on my tv viewing, and just finished this episode today. In my opinion, it was the most enjoyable one this season. Not so much because of the Murder House tie-in, as I thought that was a good season ( but not my favorite)-- I just think more happened, even if it happened in the past, and they explained more than they have before. It took them awhile to get around to it, but they got it done. Now we have a clear idea of how Michael became who he is in the present timeline. By the way, if you have trouble remembering how things happened or just want some insight into each episode, there are quite a few recaps on You tube. I have a couple that I like and I always watch them, and they do a good job of explaining things and also pointing out little Easter Eggs that I also miss, like the Pepper actress being one of the Satanists . I see that a lot of you guys caught that, but I didn't.

 

I do find it funny that the Church of Satan is offended at how they were portrayed ! How often is belief in God or even religion in general mocked by tv and movies, and all sorts of famous people ( no need to name names, they know who they are) feel free to say how dumb it is to believe in any higher power, yet Heaven forbid ( pun intended) that Satanists are portrayed badly 1 time and are offended ! Maybe LaVay didn't actually do human sacrifice, but he sure didn't contribute much of anything positive to the world. By his own description, he was a selfish, self-centered person, and proud of it. That's basically what that religion teaches- appease your own needs, do what makes you feel good, and to Hell ( again, pun intended) with everyone else. Sorry for the rant, but they don't seem to be a group that needs anyone's sympathy.

I agree with you about the faux outrage from the Church of Satan.  I'm Catholic and there is not enough time in the day for me to point out all the inaccuracies found in movies and tv about my faith.  It is so easy for writers to forget that while all Catholics are Christians not all Christians are Catholic.  I chose not to watch Asylum after finding out Ryan Murphy was going to have priests and nuns as characters.  I knew that it was not going to be for me.  

 

On another note, I am in love with Behold Chablis and Billy Porter's portrayal.  Between him and Myrtle, I am thankful that we finally have a season with good characters.  The last few seasons were lacking in interesting characters.  

[Anela]

I watched it last night. I didn't like Tate and Violet's "happy ending". I know they said the house made him do it, but I don't remember the others hurting anyone? Intentionally. That one burnt guy killed his family, but not for the house, for Constance. He was obsessed with her. It also makes out that the love of a good woman or girl, can heal a violent boy/man. No. 

The rest of it, I liked for the most part. I have no interest in devil worshippers, but loved the Omen movies, and thought I heard the music there. I was falling asleep as it finished. 

[Bruinsfan]

I mean, didn't the house warp Zachary Quinto and Teddy Sears' characters so they were willing to assault people and plotted to kill a baby so they could keep its ghost? I don't recall seeing any indication of that kind of evil in them while they were alive. (Also, ghosts of people that didn't seem malevolent in life turned pretty kill-happy in the Cortez...)

[BookWoman56]

4 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I mean, didn't the house warp Zachary Quinto and Teddy Sears' characters so they were willing to assault people and plotted to kill a baby so they could keep its ghost? I don't recall seeing any indication of that kind of evil in them while they were alive. (Also, ghosts of people that didn't seem malevolent in life turned pretty kill-happy in the Cortez...)

Hayden (Kate Mara's character) also seemed to change dramatically once she became a ghost. She transitioned from garden variety young woman (wasn't she still a grad student or something?) having an affair with a married man and deluding herself he would leave his wife to BSC loon willing to gaslight Viv so that Viv would end up in a psych ward or even institutionalized, leaving one twin for Hayden and one for Nora Montgomery.  I'd say the house itself was responsible for most of the evil that occurred there.

ETA: Yes, Tate committed the high school shootings while he was still alive, but he was actually living in the house at that time. Presumably the house can affect live people as well as ghosts; certainly Chad and Patrick (Quinto and Sears) became pretty hostile at least to each other before they were killed. I assume the Murder House is supposed to be reminiscent of the house in Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House, in that the house itself has a tremendous power to wreak havoc on anyone who is on the premises. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by BookWoman56

[DangerousMinds]

Tate committed the school shooting before he died.

[coppersin]

The house's stab-happy instincts and its less than stellar history regarding children mean that Tate probably never had a chance. Between his parents and then his mother's remarriage he presumably spent some/most of his formative years on a hellmouth. Putting aside the psychological damage of whatever messed-up ghosts he probably saw wandering about as a kid, the evil in that place probably soaked into him like radiation. Did he have issues? Sure. But my impression from the first season was that he wasn't the kind of guy that would burn his stepfather and mass-murder his peers. As always, YMMV.

[BeeBop88]

I am not fully involved in AHS as you all have been, but have enjoyed season 8 and this episode is my favorite so far. Watching AHS has been on and off for me due to life interruptions but even not knowing how everything connects to something else, I still enjoy it. I have put AHS DVD's on my Christmas list, so after watching all of them I will be able to understand what you all have been saying. But I have been told it is not a very Christmassy gift, LOL!

It appears that Madison does have a heart. I loved it how she got Violet and Tate back together at the end. I really don't understand how they had to do all this "research" to find out that Michael is the anti-Christ. I could have told them that.

Edited October 27, 2018 by BeeBop88

[Token]

I'm confused by the comment that Tate was corrupted by growing up in a house with ghosts..... didn't Tate, as Jessica Lange's son, grow up in the house next door to the Murder House?  I don't think he grew up in the Murder House.  Or am I remembering that wrong?  I think Tate really was just a garden variety psycho who shot up a bunch of classmates.

[Rap541]

You're remembering wrong but it was also one of the more confusing and inexplicable aspects of Murder House. Apparently Constance and Tate (and creepy thing child under the stairs) and girl with Downs Syndrome who I want to call Nan even tho I know the character has a different name, lived in the Murder House with Burned Guy. Constance murdered the maid and possibly her husband IN the murder house, trapping the maid (although the husband never seemed to turn up as a ghost) and when Tate went on his rampage of burning Stepdad Burned Man and killing his class mates he was gunned down by the SWAT team in the house....

And Constance then moved to the house next door to be close to her dead kids but the whole financial aspect of how she was able to do that was totally ignored. 

I also think it ignores the opening sequence of Murder House where the two twin 1970s boys were murdered and the daughter with Downs Syndrome (clearly younger) warned them of their impending deaths and there was clearly no one living in the house... BUT NOW I AM BEING FUSSY!!! 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Rap541

[Stallion12]

The husband was mentioned as having sex with mori in the basement. It sounded recent and pissed off constance .

[Bruinsfan]

Didn't the Coven season all but state outright that everyone ends up in Hell eventually?

[Stringey]

On 10/22/2018 at 10:55 PM, sheetmoss said:

Maybe Sarah Paulson directing helped as well?

Oh did she direct this episode?? I was going to ask if someone else directed murder house because it seemed different. Better honestly than the other episodes this season. More serious.

5 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Didn't the Coven season all but state outright that everyone ends up in Hell eventually?

Other than delphine lalauries hell all other personal hells have been silly. The thing about the frog and working bad retail??? Come on any version of he'll would be pure torture.

[Whodunnit]

So am I correct in assuming that Constance kept Michael in extreme isolation for about 6 years?

I'm talking about him never leaving the house, no school, no other people, (except the babysitter and the priest) very limited media exposure, no knowledge of his past, etc.

...and then she's surprised that he has problems.

[Female83]

9 hours ago, Whodunnit said:

So am I correct in assuming that Constance kept Michael in extreme isolation for about 6 years?

I'm talking about him never leaving the house, no school, no other people, (except the babysitter and the priest) very limited media exposure, no knowledge of his past, etc.

...and then she's surprised that he has problems.

I think she only kept him in isolation after he killed the priest and aged a few years.