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Jesus God, Leah!!


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4 hours ago, Ladystardust said:

What's sad is that bad grammar is almost a dialect there. I grew up in WV and most of my family lives there (I hightailed it out of there at 18 and they all still think I'm nuts for leaving). I have a cousin who is a high level nurse who constantly writes shit on FB like "I thought I seen you there!". Drives me crazy, and she's one of the more educated people in the area (we only have about a 10% college graduation rate in the state). The undereducated people...well, let's just say I can barely decipher their FB posts at all. It's super sad and embarrassing.

I think I'm with you on bad grammar almost being a dialect.  How she could get the contraction "should've" right but followed it with "did" really confused me.

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23 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I think I'm with you on bad grammar almost being a dialect.  How she could get the contraction "should've" right but followed it with "did" really confused me.

Absofuckinglutely guarantee "should of" was one of the wrong choices on those online grammar/vocab quizzes she was taking that she posted on her twitter.

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16 hours ago, Mkay said:

The hat is back. 

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NOOOOOO pls pls pls don't tell me she got a boxer puppy. Pls no. I will take him. 

Boxers are amazing dogs- a great breed with kiddos but  They need a ton of attention, time and energy. She cannot handle a boxer. My boxer needed 100% supervision until he was like 3 years old. This poor thing will get out from under her. My heart just dropped. UGHGHHGHGHGHGHHGHHG 

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9 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

"I should've just did my hair?" Leah clearly is not paying attention in her remedial English class.

@MissMel, you brought back childhood memories of taco pizza at Happy Joe's! In my neck of the woods the best place for taco pizza is Casey's (a gas/convenience store place, oddly enough).

Midwesterner? Casey's taco pizza is BOMB!

Anyway, what I really came to post was that you could see every freaking bone in Leah's body - even through her clothes - during the last episode.  She can eat as many of those Doritos concoctions as she wants..girl needs food. 

Edited by saratothej
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42 minutes ago, saratothej said:

Midwesterner? Casey's taco pizza is BOMB!

Anyway, what I really came to post was that you could see every freaking bone in Leah's body - even through her clothes - during the last episode.  She can eat as many of those Doritos concoctions as she wants..girl needs food. 

You know it - Iowa represent! Maybe we could send a few taco pizzas to Leah.

Back to snarking: if Leah spent a little less time on those tarantula horrors the rest of us know as eyelashes she would have had time to "did" her hair. 

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9 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

"I should've just did my hair?" Leah clearly is not paying attention in her remedial English class.

@MissMel, you brought back childhood memories of taco pizza at Happy Joe's! In my neck of the woods the best place for taco pizza is Casey's (a gas/convenience store place, oddly enough).

Casey's has pizza?  I remember when our town got a Casey's.  It was a big deal!  We moved from Iowa to Florida shortly after though.  I was 10.  That was over 30 years ago.  I have a friend that lives in Illinois and she had her son's birthday party at Happy Joe's.  I was so surprised to see what Happy Joe's looks like now.  It wasn't like when we were kids, for sure.  

I've been in the South so long that I didn't even notice the "did my hair" part of Leah's post.  I was impressed by the 'should've', though.  I'm just used to hearing "get my hairs did" or "my toes did" so much that I didn't even notice her slip up.  Haha!  It's just a way of speaking in some places, I guess.  

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7 hours ago, yogi2014L said:

NOOOOOO pls pls pls don't tell me she got a boxer puppy. Pls no. I will take him. 

Boxers are amazing dogs- a great breed with kiddos but  They need a ton of attention, time and energy. She cannot handle a boxer. My boxer needed 100% supervision until he was like 3 years old. This poor thing will get out from under her. My heart just dropped. UGHGHHGHGHGHGHHGHHG 

Of course she got a breed that needs a lot of supervision!

here's what I don't understand:

1. She says she needs to keep her stress level low, because the stresses of being a regular mom have worn her out. Goes to "rehab" for this. 

2. Is still so tired after "rehab" that she has to take naps and ask other people to go pick her kids up from school. 

3. Suddenly thinks it's a GREAT idea, on top of kids getting to a more demanding age, to start a 4-year college, an MLM, and get a puppy. Like...wtf? Can anyone explain this to me? I am at a total loss. 

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Just now, Christina87 said:

Of course she got a breed that needs a lot of supervision!

here's what I don't understand:

1. She says she needs to keep her stress level low, because the stresses of being a regular mom have worn her out. Goes to "rehab" for this. 

2. Is still so tired after "rehab" that she has to take naps and ask other people to go pick her kids up from school. 

3. Suddenly thinks it's a GREAT idea, on top of kids getting to a more demanding age, to start a 4-year college, an MLM, and get a puppy. Like...wtf? Can anyone explain this to me? I am at a total loss. 

ITA!!!!

I just wish that puppy had a puppy daddy to watch him 50 % of the time.

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3 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Of course she got a breed that needs a lot of supervision!

here's what I don't understand:

1. She says she needs to keep her stress level low, because the stresses of being a regular mom have worn her out. Goes to "rehab" for this. 

2. Is still so tired after "rehab" that she has to take naps and ask other people to go pick her kids up from school. 

3. Suddenly thinks it's a GREAT idea, on top of kids getting to a more demanding age, to start a 4-year college, an MLM, and get a puppy. Like...wtf? Can anyone explain this to me? I am at a total loss. 

Some drugs make people feel like they can do anything and everything.

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These girls drive me crazy with their pet hoarding. Leah already has a cat/cats. Isn't that enough? Cats are so independent that I don't worry about them too much being in her care. Although Gracie did manage to sneak it in the car under Leah's watchful eyes. But dogs...dogs require so much attention and training. They should really just borrow a dog for a couple days before they jump into owning one. The novelty will wear off quickly and that dog will be living at Grandma Sandy's. 

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5 hours ago, saratothej said:

These girls drive me crazy with their pet hoarding. Leah already has a cat/cats. Isn't that enough? Cats are so independent that I don't worry about them too much being in her care. Although Gracie did manage to sneak it in the car under Leah's watchful eyes. But dogs...dogs require so much attention and training. They should really just borrow a dog for a couple days before they jump into owning one. The novelty will wear off quickly and that dog will be living at Grandma Sandy's. 

Hoarding? Maybe it would be hoarding if they kept the animals but we rarely see these dogs last more than two seasons. 

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On 2/20/2017 at 5:44 PM, CofCinci said:

Will she go to college this week? Or did her glitter pen run out of ink so she needs to wait for them to come by Amazon first. 

Whoa, let's not bring glitter pens into this. They are a beautiful simple pleasure. 

Jeremy and Brooke are single on social media now. How many more women will he be engaged or married to before age 30 before he realizes he can't be faithful? 

Edited by Lm2162
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On 2/21/2017 at 1:10 PM, yogi2014L said:

NOOOOOO pls pls pls don't tell me she got a boxer puppy. Pls no. I will take him. 

Boxers are amazing dogs- a great breed with kiddos but  They need a ton of attention, time and energy. She cannot handle a boxer. My boxer needed 100% supervision until he was like 3 years old. This poor thing will get out from under her. My heart just dropped. UGHGHHGHGHGHGHHGHHG 

We have a boxer/lab mix. He is a wonderfully trained, very smart service dog but boxers are stubborn (but loyal, and not aggressive) and he needed the full 2 years of training to obey all commands fully. He is very needy for companionship and tends towards anxiety that needs to be comforted by humans, which makes life as a service dog good for him because he's rarely alone. Leah should NOT have one. He will be abused and neglected. :( 

Edited by Lm2162
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5 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Whoa, let's not bring glitter pens into this. They are a beautiful simple pleasure. 

Jeremy and Brooke are single on social media now. How many more women will he be engaged or married to before age 30 before he realizes he can't be faithful? 

He obviously does have problems with being faithful, so why, WHY, would he propose to a known cheater who couldn't decide between him and her ex after like 5 minutes? Did Jeremy think there was ANY chance of the marriage working out? If not, why did he bring a kid into it? I swear, I think out of everyone on the show, I understand him and his motives the least. 

Edited by Christina87
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11 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

He obviously does have problems with being faithful, so why, WHY, would he propose to a known cheater who couldn't decide between him and her ex after like 5 minutes? Did Jeremy think there was ANY chance of the marriage working out? If not, why did he bring a kid into it? I swear, I think out of everyone on the show, I understand him and his motives the least. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if these people were mature and intelligent enough to negotiate, they'd be candidates for an open relationship. If you both don't want to be monogamous...Just don't be! Problem solved and no more deer cam drama!!

What makes even less sense to me is proposing to an actually monogamous girl after. Maybe he thinks if the girl is perfect enough, he'll keep it in his pants? I don't know. Just date around till your mid 30s or something, people, or be polyamorous. 

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Just now, GreatKazu said:

I am watching the Teen Mom special Most Explosive Moments. I am laughing so hard at the scene where Addie is being smothered with shit in the SUV as Germy and Leah are fighting and cussing. 

Good times.

And then Germy brings up how much trouble they'd be in if the cops pulled them over to which Leah responds "do you know how many people can't see out their rearviews?" Really, Leah? Because I think we have laws about things like that. 

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13 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

And then Germy brings up how much trouble they'd be in if the cops pulled them over to which Leah responds "do you know how many people can't see out their rearviews?" Really, Leah? Because I think we have laws about things like that. 

Leah always has a stupid response to facts!! She throws out alternative facts. I cannot stand her. Yeah, everyone has a car full of shit that is blocking our view. Stupid inbred.

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On 2/21/2017 at 11:22 AM, Ladystardust said:

What's sad is that bad grammar is almost a dialect there. I grew up in WV and most of my family lives there (I hightailed it out of there at 18 and they all still think I'm nuts for leaving). I have a cousin who is a high level nurse who constantly writes shit on FB like "I thought I seen you there!". Drives me crazy, and she's one of the more educated people in the area (we only have about a 10% college graduation rate in the state). The undereducated people...well, let's just say I can barely decipher their FB posts at all. It's super sad and embarrassing.

I agree, I notice a lot of the ppl from this show aren't particularly well-spoken but I especially notice it with the WV crowd.

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I watched the Top Ten Explosive as well and was struck by how much better Leah looked when she was having her outside argument with Cory. I remembered that I used to think she was somewhat cute back then. She looks so much more harsh and raw nowadays.

And yes, that car with the crap falling all over Addie was overboard and I agree with Jeremy. 

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10 hours ago, BitterApple said:

And then Germy brings up how much trouble they'd be in if the cops pulled them over to which Leah responds "do you know how many people can't see out their rearviews?" Really, Leah? Because I think we have laws about things like that. 

Laws aside, no good parent would ever drive around like that. I take my children's safety when we're in the car very seriously. That was a nightmare waiting to happen. Not only could she cause accident by having SUCH a large blind spot, but poor Adderall was being drowned in a sea of white trash indulgence. I'm surprised she didn't suffocate or develop a concussion. 

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My laughing began when Jeremy was waiting for Leah as they were trying to get out the door. Jeremy asked of Leah "Where are we gonna put it all?" with regards to Gracie's cheer stuff. Gracie said, "Just shove it in the back!" Jeremy then says to Leah "When the five year old knows how her mom does things."

That scene of Leah screaming and yelling at Jeremy to shut up, and then the cursing. Oy. Gracie was just looking at her mother as if it was the most normal thing. Addie was just trying to breathe. lol

Edited by GreatKazu
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11 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

I am watching the Teen Mom special Most Explosive Moments. I am laughing so hard at the scene where Addie is being smothered with shit in the SUV as Germy and Leah are fighting and cussing. 

Good times.

They treated that as so funny and all I saw was a toxic marriage and child neglect...Things on this show are glossed over so quickly. "whoops, killed another animal!! Oh well!"

Edited by Lm2162
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Just now, Lm2162 said:

MTV. I don't think L&J were laughing. They always show these horrible moments as just juicy bits of drama.

It is the life Jeremy and Leah gave them which happened to be the reality of Leah and Jeremy's life at that point in time.

Unfortunately, Leah has laughed off such scenes when discussing it on the reunion show or in some interview.

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Just now, GreatKazu said:

It is the life Jeremy and Leah gave them which happened to be the reality of Leah and Jeremy's life at that point in time.

Unfortunately, Leah has laughed off such scenes when discussing it on the reunion show or in some interview.

Well yes, of course. I'm pointing out the toxicity of playing out actually awful moments in your life and your kids' lives as reality television/a juicy soap opera. I don't see who this could "help" as they all claim. 

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Just now, Lm2162 said:

Well yes, of course. I'm pointing out the toxicity of playing out actually awful moments in your life and your kids' lives as reality television/a juicy soap opera. I don't see who this could "help" as they all claim. 

It helps no one. But it does fill Leah's pocket with money, something she seems she can't let go of and I don't see her letting it go anytime soon.

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I love to snark on this show as much as the next person. But I do think having a "Most Explosive Moments" episode is a bit much. It's like they're celebrating how psychotic these people are. Filming them and airing the things that happen is a typical reality show; and while it can often be disturbing, it's nothing new. But a compilation of the most intense and scary moments in the lives of these children? Ehhhhh. How about a "cute kids" compilation? Or words used incorrectly? Hell, you could air about 5 of those. 

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Leah's life hasn't changed at all. She is still a screaming shrew who is still hoarding and putting her kids in danger. The compilations just reaffirm it. It also reaffirms that Adumb and Kail haven't changed, not that I expected them to. Whether it is a compilation or a new episode the shit remains the same. The kids are still in chaotic situations and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. 

Edited by GreatKazu
Spell check wants to post complications instead of compilation.
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The whole show made me so uncomfortable (of course that didn't stop me from watching and rewinding a few parts). Leah was a hot holler gal once upon a time. Now she looks like Farrah Fawcett when she went on Letterman and was all zoned out on something. Extremely thin and sinewy, blonde hair a big hot mess, looking ragged as hell. Of course poor Farrah had many years of being a sweet, responsible woman. 

I can't stand this thick eyebrow phase. Who looks good in that (I know I would not)? Leah's brows and thin pointy chin are making her look very witchy. 

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2 hours ago, saratothej said:

I understand the issue of how the show has gotten off it's original point of trying to show the struggles of being a teen mother since they all started making bank. HOWEVER, does anyone really want to be like Leah? Yes, she has money (hopefully), but she also has emotional issues/drug issues/custody issues/relationship issues/misc. Leah issues.  I suppose you could say some of it is related to being a teen mom and some of it could be blamed on the money/"fame".  Aside from Chelsea, these girls all have major issues and I wouldn't trade places with them for their cash. To be fair, I don't know that I'd even want to deal with Adumb in exchange for Chelsea's money. 

I think a lot of these girls have similar issues surrounding men and sex (including absent and/or abusive father figures, and using sex to try to remedy their feelings of insecurity).  I hope girls with similar issues will see the show and say "I'd better be extra careful about getting pregnant, because instead of it being something that makes my life better by giving me someone who will love me unconditionally, it will probably make my life harder."

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On 2/17/2017 at 1:32 PM, BitterApple said:

I know with Mary Kay you purchase upfront and it's on you to unload your inventory, but I'm not sure about LipSense. 

My cousin just recently got into LipSense and from what I can gather they can purchase their own inventory or just place an order if someone wants something they don't have.  So probably very similar to Mary Kay.  My cousin doesn't seem to keep a lot of inventory on hand.

On 2/21/2017 at 5:48 PM, MissMel said:

Casey's has pizza?  I remember when our town got a Casey's.  It was a big deal!  We moved from Iowa to Florida shortly after though.  I was 10.  That was over 30 years ago.  I have a friend that lives in Illinois and she had her son's birthday party at Happy Joe's.  I was so surprised to see what Happy Joe's looks like now.  It wasn't like when we were kids, for sure.  

I've been in the South so long that I didn't even notice the "did my hair" part of Leah's post.  I was impressed by the 'should've', though.  I'm just used to hearing "get my hairs did" or "my toes did" so much that I didn't even notice her slip up.  Haha!  It's just a way of speaking in some places, I guess.  

CASEY'S PIZZA!!!!! omggggg you have no idea how excited that makes me that two people on here are familiar with casey's pizza.  I couldn't find the previous post but you guys need to try the BBQ beef next time you can.  Even their commercials now say "known for pizza"

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16 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if these people were mature and intelligent enough to negotiate, they'd be candidates for an open relationship. If you both don't want to be monogamous...Just don't be! Problem solved and no more deer cam drama!!

What makes even less sense to me is proposing to an actually monogamous girl after. Maybe he thinks if the girl is perfect enough, he'll keep it in his pants? I don't know. Just date around till your mid 30s or something, people, or be polyamorous. 

Open relationship?! Non-monogamous?!?! What kind of sinful witchin' language is you talking, LM2162?  We don't do that lib'ral Godless stuff, no sir'ee fiddle dee dee, we's is good country folk, not them high fluting big city people with them sinful ideals! (Cue Deliverance banjo)

Sorry, couldn't help myself. The sad thing is that isn't far off on how the people in Jeremy's/Leah's neck of the woods think. I mean, open/non-monogamous relationships are still newer concepts to the more progressive parts of this country. Backwoods West Virginia? Yeah, no. Anyway, I don't think Jeremy is so much non-monogamous as he is an egotistical macho redneck who wants his cake and to eat it to. The men and women folk of the bible belt still revel in some very outdated concepts of gender. Germs is way too limited and arrogant to stand for his woman having relationships outside of him. Same for Leah, actually; she wants to be the center of her partner's universe but she would fall apart if they had someone else, no matter how many deercams she is caught on. Neither has a healthy concept of sex or relationships imo.

Honestly, my guess is that anyone from their Holler didn't want to get married as teens/aren't straight/aren't interested in Holler "monogamy"/have a modicum of ambition, work ethic, or intelligence get the hell out of dodge as soon as they can.

Edited by HeySandyStrange
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20 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Open relationship?! Non-monogamous?!?! What kind of sinful witchin' language is you talking, LM2162?  We don't do that lib'ral Godless stuff, no sir'ee fiddle dee dee, we's is good country folk, not them high fluting big city people with them sinful ideals! (Cue Deliverance banjo)

Sorry, couldn't help myself. The sad thing is that isn't far off on how the people in Jeremy's/Leah's neck of the woods think. I mean, open/non-monogamous relationships are still newer concepts to the more progressive parts of this country. Backwoods West Virginia? Yeah, no. Anyway, I don't think Jeremy is so much non-monogamous as he is an egotistical macho redneck who wants his cake and to eat it to. The men and women folk of the bible belt still revel in some very outdated concepts of gender. Germs is way too limited and arrogant to stand for his woman having relationships outside of him. Same for Leah, actually; she wants to be the center of her partner's universe but she would fall apart if they had someone else, no matter how many deercams she is caught on. Neither has a healthy concept of sex or relationships imo.

Honestly, my guess is that anyone from their Holler didn't want to get married as teens/aren't straight/aren't interested in Holler "monogamy"/have a modicum of ambition, work ethic, or intelligence get the hell out of dodge as soon as they can.

I totally agree. The ironic thing is that they would consider ethical nonmonogamy agreed upon by all partners "slutty" and "gross" and "sinful" but J&L can cheat with every girl in booty shorts or boy in camos who can sort of read and it's "excusable."

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24 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Open relationship?! Non-monogamous?!?! What kind of sinful witchin' language is you talking, LM2162?  We don't do that lib'ral Godless stuff, no sir'ee fiddle dee dee, we's is good country folk, not them high fluting big city people with them sinful ideals! (Cue Deliverance banjo)

Sorry, couldn't help myself. The sad thing is that isn't far off on how the people in Jeremy's/Leah's neck of the woods think. I mean, open/non-monogamous relationships are still newer concepts to the more progressive parts of this country. Backwoods West Virginia? Yeah, no. Anyway, I don't think Jeremy is so much non-monogamous as he is an egotistical macho redneck who wants his cake and to eat it to. The men and women folk of the bible belt still revel in some very outdated concepts of gender. Germs is way too limited and arrogant to stand for his woman having relationships outside of him. Same for Leah, actually; she wants to be the center of her partner's universe but she would fall apart if they had someone else, no matter how many deercams she is caught on. Neither has a healthy concept of sex or relationships imo.

Honestly, my guess is that anyone from their Holler didn't want to get married as teens/aren't straight/aren't interested in Holler "monogamy"/have a modicum of ambition, work ethic, or intelligence get the hell out of dodge as soon as they can.

Omg you made me laugh out loud reading this. So funny. 

But I totally agree- jeremy doesn't want to be "non monogamous", he (like a lot of people) want the BENEFITS of a monogamous relationship while being able to get their jollies on the side. Jeremy would want his woman to be 100% faithful to him and "look the other way" if someone else caught his eye, so long as he was "taking care of home". I'm glad Brooke dumped him. Better now than after they got married.

I do think Corey "will make an effort" to stay faithful to Miranda, but even he cheated on her with Leah after their marriage. Given Corey's history with Leah, I do think he would be willing to forgive Miranda for a one time slip with someone she once loved, but there's certainly a double standard at work. 

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56 minutes ago, gunderda said:

My cousin just recently got into LipSense and from what I can gather they can purchase their own inventory or just place an order if someone wants something they don't have.  So probably very similar to Mary Kay.  My cousin doesn't seem to keep a lot of inventory on hand.

Yeah, from what I could tell, you don't have to purchase anything beforehand, you can just wait and fill all your orders. The benefit to that is obviously not getting stuck with makeup you can't sell. The downside is, if you're willing to order more stuff, you get steeper discounts from the company, and therefore make a better profit (if you sell one lipstick, you buy it from the company at $15 and sell it for $20, and make $5. If you are willing to buy 20 lipsticks at once, I think you can buy them for like $10 each, then you make $10 on each one sold. Just using rough numbers). And you also might have an easier time selling to someone if you can hand the product right over.

 

I am betting Leah just plans on making her money off the commissions of her "team". However, you do have to make a portion of your commission from your own sales (if the person below you sold $10,000, and your cut of that is $200, and you did $0 in sales, you do not get your "team" commission). I don't remember the minimum you have to sell in order to be eligible, but my guess is, Leah will end up buying her own commission each month, until she inevitably gets bored with it and quits altogether.

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@Scarlett45, it definitely seems that male cheating is kind of expected as long as you can hide it in their circles. Female cheating makes you an irredeemable whore. 

I'd like to think Corey's was a one time thing. If he was in the same position as Jeremy and constantly on the road I don't think he'd be nearly as much of a dog, but I do think he'd have made a much bigger deal out of it than Miranda did if she had cheated immediately after their wedding. 

They seem to be pretty good now, but man, the fact that he was cheated on right after a wedding and then turned around and did exactly the same thing is rough. 

Edited by Lm2162
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Leah is a prime example of money not solving all problems. There are some people who could have all the money in the world and they will still be ignorant and low class. You can't fix stupid.

@gunderda - BBQ beef pizza? That's the bomb! Sadly my family has now moved away from Iowa so there's a good chance I'll never have Casey's pizza again.

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40 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

I totally agree. The ironic thing is that they would consider ethical nonmonogamy agreed upon by all partners "slutty" and "gross" and "sinful" but J&L can cheat with every girl in booty shorts or boy in camos who can sort of read and it's "excusable."

In the mindset of these types of people, as long as you keep your "mess" out of the church and keep up appearances, it is A OK to fool around a little (or beat your spouse, drink/do drugs, abuse your kids, etc.), especially, of course, if you are a man. I'm not just being a judgmental asshole, either, I have experience growing up in the Bible Belt South and they have some seriously backwards attitudes about "appearances" versus healthy honesty. Which, tbh, could go for a lot of people but still.

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9 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

@Scarlett45, it definitely seems that male cheating is kind of expected as long as you can hide it in their circles. Female cheating makes you an irredeemable whore. 

I'd like to think Corey's was a one time thing. If he was in the same position as Jeremy and constantly on the road I don't think he'd be nearly as much of a dog, but I do think he'd have made a much bigger deal out of it than Miranda did if she had cheated immediately after their wedding. 

They seem to be pretty good now, but man, the fact that he was cheated on right after a wedding and then turned around and did exactly the same thing is rough. 

I am sure there are plenty of places where there is still a "boys will be boys" attitude, along with a dose of "if you don't take proper care of your man, some other girl will".

Really, that might have (pure speculation here) contributed to Miranda's willingness to forgive Corey- the underlying thought that if she'd put out more, made herself more attractive (ie thinner), was more vivacious and flirty...well then maybe he wouldn't have strayed.

 

ETA- in case it wasn't clear- I don't think Miranda should feel that way, but that might be how she feels based on her surrounding environment.

Edited by Tatum
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