Spoilers and Speculation

[SimoneS]

7 hours ago, loki567 said:

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where both Carl and Maggie are dead by the end of the season and Negan still lives. Not pretty. 

They have already finished filming season 8. If Maggie does die, it will be next season.

[Gobi]

11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I put this here because it is a potential spoiler. Sounds like Maggie might be on her way out. Good for Lauren demanding parity. I am glad that she is getting offers for pilots. We'll have to see what happens. Danai's contact should be up at the end of next season. She will have to make a similar tough decision.

http://deadline.com/2018/02/lauren-cohan-pilot-offers-the-walking-dead-maggie-1202276937/

I don't know how reliable this is: It says Maggie is a fan favorite.

[SnarkyTart]

19 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Didn't we already see all this? Well, with the exception of Carl buying the farm and looks like that will be stretched out as long as possible, with many monologues. The only thing missing there is Rick diving out another window. Ho hum.

You're so right.  We've seen every one of those scenes multiple times.  Even Carl's death is going to be so tedious, and have so many repetitious monologues, that we'll feel like we've already seen it several times before it's over.  Huh.  Maybe that's part of Gimple's plan - Carl will have so many labored death monolgues, complete with death rattles, that we'll be glad he's gone when Rick finally stabs him in the head.

[AngelaHunter]

52 minutes ago, SnarkyTart said:

Carl will have so many labored death monolgues, complete with death rattles, that we'll be glad he's gone when Rick finally stabs him in the head.

I'm pretty sure that's the way it works. That's how I felt while watching Tyreese expire for what seemed like 3 or 4 hours, complete with trippy visions and all the other wannabe-artistic nonsense. I actually wailed aloud, "Oh, please, just die, FFS!!"

[SimoneS]

I have no doubt that Carl will have nonsensical monologues about forgiveness and non-violence on his deathbed. However, I highly doubt that will take away from pain of his death and Danai and Andy's stellar heartbreaking performances. I know that my heart will hurt. To me, Carl will forever be that boy who cried out "dad" and ran into his father's arms that first season. Despite my own misgivings, I am going to watch live because I cannot imagine not being there to say goodbye to Carl.

Edited February 5, 2018 by SimoneS

[sigmaforce86]

Now Kirkman is saying Carl may not die.   I call BS and am a little annoyed by his smarmyness in the interview.  The only way Carl doesn't die is if that bite was a Whisperer not a walker.   Yes the Whisperers are probably coming up on the show and Kirkman even mentions them in the interview but........... if this were all a fake out (on a level higher than the Glenn/dumpster fake out) they've gone to great lengths to maintain the illusion that Chandler was let go from the show.  There's no way I believe that they got Chandler's Dad to send out pissed off tweets about his son being fired just so the fans would think his death was a done deal.  If it turns out that this is true (which I'll give a 1%-2% chance of) then I'll have to give them credit for really making us think he was a goner......but I have trouble believing that's where they're heading.

Robert Kirkman - Carl May Not Die

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Now Kirkman is saying Carl may not die.   I call BS and am a little annoyed by his smarmyness in the interview.  The only way Carl doesn't die is if that bite was a Whisperer not a walker.   Yes the Whisperers are probably coming up on the show and Kirkman even mentions them in the interview but........... if this were all a fake out (on a level higher than the Glenn/dumpster fake out) they've gone to great lengths to maintain the illusion that Chandler was let go from the show.  There's no way I believe that they got Chandler's Dad to send out pissed off tweets about his son being fired just so the fans would think his death was a done deal.  If it turns out that this is true (which I'll give a 1%-2% chance of) then I'll have to give them credit for really making us think he was a goner......but I have trouble believing that's where they're heading.

Robert Kirkman - Carl May Not Die

In any case, it really grinds my nads when TPTB start pulling tricksies outside the show to affect viewer perceptions of activities within the show.  To me, such tomfoolery is blatant admission of the writing’s weakness.

[nodorothyparker]

As pissed off as so much as the fandom has been about the Carl situation, do these morons really think offering a fakeout that maybe it is or maybe it isn't is a good idea?  Now people are either going to mad that yet again we got another under the dumpster fakeout that comes to nothing, or they'll be mad because they were given false hope only to tune in and watch this kid we've all seen grow up on our TVs die.  They already shit the bed.  The best thing they could have done was leave well enough alone, not put their foot in it and track it all over the house. 

[Anela]

I haven't read the comics, but I have read about the Whisperers. I wondered of they were the walkers in the water, in the preview. They looked too organized to be (un)dead. 

I think they would be stupid to pull another fake-out, though. Having him get bitten was bad enough (and I was one of the annoyed viewers, over Glenn and their going so far as to take his name out of the credits, when I was sure he wasn't dead). I don't think his father would have been so pissed off a couple of months ago, either, unless he's a really good actor, and got paid to do it. 

[CrashTextDummie]

On 2/3/2018 at 4:03 AM, SimoneS said:

I put this here because it is a potential spoiler. Sounds like Maggie might be on her way out. Good for Lauren demanding parity. I am glad that she is getting offers for pilots. We'll have to see what happens. Danai's contact should be up at the end of next season. She will have to make a similar tough decision.

http://deadline.com/2018/02/lauren-cohan-pilot-offers-the-walking-dead-maggie-1202276937/

Sounds like standard order re-negotiation shenanigans. Of course she's going to entertain pilots to hitch up her price for TWD. I wouldn't take this as a sign of anything.

[Gobi]

11 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Now Kirkman is saying Carl may not die.   I call BS and am a little annoyed by his smarmyness in the interview.  The only way Carl doesn't die is if that bite was a Whisperer not a walker.   Yes the Whisperers are probably coming up on the show and Kirkman even mentions them in the interview but........... if this were all a fake out (on a level higher than the Glenn/dumpster fake out) they've gone to great lengths to maintain the illusion that Chandler was let go from the show.  There's no way I believe that they got Chandler's Dad to send out pissed off tweets about his son being fired just so the fans would think his death was a done deal.  If it turns out that this is true (which I'll give a 1%-2% chance of) then I'll have to give them credit for really making us think he was a goner......but I have trouble believing that's where they're heading.

Robert Kirkman - Carl May Not Die

If he does live, I stick with my helicopter prediction. That way, he could live and still leave the show, which would explain his father's anger.

[Smad]

17 hours ago, Nashville said:

In any case, it really grinds my nads when TPTB start pulling tricksies outside the show to affect viewer perceptions of activities within the show.  To me, such tomfoolery is blatant admission of the writing’s weakness.

They remind a bit of Chris Carter, only in reverse. I don't have Talking Dead where I live so them constantly explaining what is up on there instead of in the show doesn't help me at all. Chris Carter always 'denied everything' outside the show, never committing to anything when asked a direct question. It's one thing to want to leave a little mystery for the viewer but at some point it just gets stupid.

13 hours ago, CrashTextDummie said:

Sounds like standard order re-negotiation shenanigans. Of course she's going to entertain pilots to hitch up her price for TWD. I wouldn't take this as a sign of anything.

Or she might actually want to work again. Maggie, like Carol and Michonne, barely gets any screen time. It's not just that the cast is so bloated. But Rick is the main guy so we constantly see Rosita and Tara who I don't care for while we go episodes without these 3 women. Granted DG was off with Marvel (damn good for her since it's way bigger than AMC and TWD) but even before we would go episodes with no Michonne or blink and you miss them appearances. Same with Maggie. The show is also beyond any character development at this point which is not exactly exiting for actors nor does it help them develop their craft.

[CrazyDog]

On 2/5/2018 at 9:24 AM, Nashville said:

In any case, it really grinds my nads when TPTB start pulling tricksies outside the show to affect viewer perceptions of activities within the show.  To me, such tomfoolery is blatant admission of the writing’s weakness.

I agree, and is Kirkman even working on the show anymore? I thought he had moved to only doing the comics, though I don't pay a ton of attention to whose doing what. While I would love Carl to live, I don't see this as anything other than Kirkman being, well, Kirkman. 

[Nashville]

On 2/5/2018 at 11:58 AM, nodorothyparker said:

As pissed off as so much as the fandom has been about the Carl situation, do these morons really think offering a fakeout that maybe it is or maybe it isn't is a good idea?  Now people are either going to mad that yet again we got another under the dumpster fakeout that comes to nothing, or they'll be mad because they were given false hope only to tune in and watch this kid we've all seen grow up on our TVs die.  They already shit the bed.  The best thing they could have done was leave well enough alone, not put their foot in it and track it all over the house. 

 

On 2/5/2018 at 2:24 PM, Anela said:

I haven't read the comics, but I have read about the Whisperers. I wondered of they were the walkers in the water, in the preview. They looked too organized to be (un)dead. 

I think they would be stupid to pull another fake-out, though. Having him get bitten was bad enough (and I was one of the annoyed viewers, over Glenn and their going so far as to take his name out of the credits, when I was sure he wasn't dead). I don't think his father would have been so pissed off a couple of months ago, either, unless he's a really good actor, and got paid to do it. 

 

13 hours ago, CrazyDog said:

I agree, and is Kirkman even working on the show anymore? I thought he had moved to only doing the comics, though I don't pay a ton of attention to whose doing what. While I would love Carl to live, I don't see this as anything other than Kirkman being, well, Kirkman. 

"Kirkman being Kirkman" be damned - he still has a contractural relationship with the show.  Immediately post-broadcast, Gimple and the rest of Production worked overtime to lock into viewers' minds that Carl's bite is typically terminal - but now that Kirkman is floating a potential redemption arc, they better follow through with it.  Any other course of action would represent a toxic level of audience-fuckery bordering on the sadistic, and being executed personally by members of the production team.  

If TPTB were to...

1. Initially presents a favored character  as being unequivocally doomed (both inside and outside the show) - then;
2. Outside of the show, throws out a potential lifesaver arc - THEN;
3. Kills the character anyway, with a hearty "Ha, ha!  Fooled you, didn't we?  You were actually stupid enough to believe us!?!?  MUAHAHAHAHA...!!!" thrown in.

...then how could they reasonably NOT expect some degree of negative audience backlash?  

Do they think viewers would appreciate having their loyalty to the show being treated like puppet strings, to be jerked around for Production's entertainment?  And to what purpose?  Are they on some arcane mission to determine the depths of viewer loyalty - to see just how much shit viewers will take before defecting in disgust and disappointment?  Or are they just sick of the show, but trapped in blood-signed contracts which bind their work souls to TWD for so long as the series runs - prompting them to come up with creative and exciting ideas to kill the show by driving off their core viewership?  Because I see no possible way a Production-fostered false flag operation does anything to help the show.

To sum up: now that Kirkman has floated this save-Carl idea balloon, TPTB better be busting their collective asses to make it happen - else the resulting viewer exodus will probably result in the show's cancellation within a year.

[AwesomO4000]

11 hours ago, Nashville said:

To sum up: now that Kirkman has floated this save-Carl idea balloon, TPTB better be busting their collective asses to make it happen - else the resulting viewer exodus will probably result in the show's cancellation within a year.

I would be so pissed. Or more pissed. I mean, I'm already pissed - Carl is my favorite and once he dies I'm outta here - but if the showrunners try to tell me he won't die, so maybe I won't leave the show on the off chance he's saved, and then he dies anyway? That's just mean, in my opinion.

On 2/3/2018 at 8:22 PM, AngelaHunter said:

I'm pretty sure that's the way it works. That's how I felt while watching Tyreese expire for what seemed like 3 or 4 hours, complete with trippy visions and all the other wannabe-artistic nonsense. I actually wailed aloud, "Oh, please, just die, FFS!!"

Hee. I'm remembering Elaine from Seinfeld and everyone dragging her to see "The English Patient."  "Quit telling your stupid story about the stupid desert and just die already! Die!"

Edited February 7, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[rab01]

I'm the reverse - Carl dying sucks but sticking him under the dumpster would suck worse. I don't know whether I'm sticking with the show either way but pulling a fake-out on a zombie bite would be just bullshit.

[catrox14]

I can't imagine they would do this. Chandler's father has lashed out at the show. Chandler has stated he's dead. Yes I know Kit Harington but this would be a bit much.

Unless the trick is that Carl survives, they do a time jump of like 2 years and recast the part. That I kind of could see them trying to get away wit..

[heisenberg]

Already the garbage people and the women camp was too much of a bunch for me. 

If they throw the Whisperers in without ending the war and getting rid of a good part of the people it will be chaos... 

They are not able to do a war that we are able to follow, if the Whisperers are in it will be a master mess.

[maystone]

I've been watching the trailers closely for the back half of S8, and it sure looks like Carl is dying/dead. There's a part that shows Carol rushing into Hilltop all smiles; the voice-over says something about bringing everyone together in one spot, and it immediately cuts to a shot of a devastated Carol clinging to a teary Daryl. I think that's when she finds out that not everyone made it. And then there's a shot of Michonne watching Rick in the distance comforting someone rather petite. Is that Enid?

I hate that TPTB killed off Carl. As many have said, we watched that kid grow up. I've always liked the character - even in his "I'd rather die than the stay in the house" phase, because that would have been me, too. I feel absolutely maternal about that young man.

Bottom line, no matter what the asshats behind the scenes have done to screw with the show, I'm here until the end. I'm here for the cast; I'm here for Nicotero; I'm here out of respect for some damn fine story telling that has come along the way. But seriously? I hate the Suits.

[Smad]

29 minutes ago, maystone said:

I've always liked the character - even in his "I'd rather die than the stay in the house" phase, because that would have been me, too.

If only it were a phase. This is the very thing that got him killed.

[SnarkyTart]

From The Spoiling Dead Fans Army facebook page.  Q&A spoilers for episode 8.9 "Honor"

Quote

Did you miss us? Welcome back!

Thank you to our awesome source. Episode 8.9 "Honor" Q & A. Buckle up and grab your Xanax and tissues, buttercups.

Does Carl say goodbye to everyone before he goes? What does he say?

He says his goodbyes to Rick and Michonne. We see that the flash-forwards from the first episode are actually Carl’s visions of how things could be if Rick stopped fighting. Rick promises Carl that he will “make them real."

How does Carl’s death play out? Who puts him down? Last words?

Carl kills himself inside the burned church with his own gun.

Who do we see react to Carl’s death? What are their reactions?

Rick and Michonne. They end up taking Carl to the burned church and leave him there alone after saying their goodbyes. When they hear the gunshot they completely break down, utterly devastated.

What happens during the flashback scenes with Carl?

These flashbacks show the moments from when he is bitten and the moments after. Carl knows he’s on borrowed time and tries to make the best out of the time he has left. So he writes several letters (to Rick, Michonne, Enid, etc). He takes lots of Polaroids with Judith so that she will have a visual reminder of her big bro. He also plants a tree.

Does Ezekiel get rescued? How?

Yes! Carol and Morgan to the rescue. They wipe out all the Saviors that were at the Kingdom. Henry actually kills Gavin.

Do we find out how the Saviors escaped the Sanctuary?

Yes. It was Eugene’s plan. They basically shot down walkers from the windows of the Sanctuary. The bodies piled up and created some kind of barricade which opened up a path for some of the Saviors to escape.

What’s going on with Dwight? Does Laura make it back to rat him out?

We don't find out. There are no scenes at the Sanctuary except for the flashback scene.

What happens at Oceanside with Enid and Aaron?

We don't see them in this episode.

Do we see anything at the Hilltop in this episode?

No.

What happens to Siddiq? Does he escape to Hilltop with the rest of them?

Yes, he leaves with everyone. They all escape except for Rick and Michonne who stay behind with Carl.

This should put to rest Kirkman's fakeout tomfookery about Carl's death.  Still, the heard-but-not-seen gunshot in the church will leave some people wondering if it was Carl killing someone else, and he's hiding under a dumpster pew or something. 

[Mu Shu]

What about father Pee?  What happens to him?  Anyone?  Bueller?

[SimoneS]

I am glad Carl takes pictures for Judith although the way things go on this show, they will be long gone before she is old enough to appreciate them.

Poor Rick and Michonne. I read that Danai and Andy gave stellar performances as I predicted. I will miss Carl. 

[nodorothyparker]

That just sounds tiresome.  So Eugene's genius master plan was to ... shoot from windows?  And Kirkman really needs to stop talking if all he can do is offer up a weak fake fakeout.

[SimoneS]

I already don't how they expect us to find it believable that Negan lives, but how are they going to justify Eugene going back to live at Alexandria or with Rick's people after his treachery. He should stay at the Sanctuary.

[Smad]

5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

So Eugene's genius master plan was to ... shoot from windows?

Hey now. It's a huge step up from shooting at windows for no reason.

 

And Gavin is the first major Savior to bite it. Seriously??? The only decent Savior gets killed while scum like Jared, Negan, Simon etc. are still running around. This show still makes no sense.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Smad

[Gobi]

7 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

That just sounds tiresome.  So Eugene's genius master plan was to ... shoot from windows?  And Kirkman really needs to stop talking if all he can do is offer up a weak fake fakeout.

And we all made fun of Rick for trying to destroy the windows. Turns out there was a reason, after  all.

[catrox14]

15 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

Carl kills himself inside the burned church with his own gun.

This sucks. I don't like this at all. No. He should be around his family and Michonne should have been the one to put him down. Remember when he said it should be someone they love? FUCK THAT

[CrazyDog]

15 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

From The Spoiling Dead Fans Army facebook page.  Q&A spoilers for episode 8.9 "Honor"

This should put to rest Kirkman's fakeout tomfookery about Carl's death.  Still, the heard-but-not-seen gunshot in the church will leave some people wondering if it was Carl killing someone else, and he's hiding under a dumpster pew or something. 

Crap. Yes, there will be endless predictions about Carl showing up in the finale or something. I'm still so sad to see him go.

If he really does turn the gun on himself, I get it. Despite his conversation with Michonne, he would want to spare her that (there's no way they could kill him while he was still alive), and I can understand him not wanting to wait and turn. He's pulling an Andrea. I do find Rick leaving him kind of weird.

I still need Eugene to die - no redemption arc for him.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

And we all made fun of Rick for trying to destroy the windows. Turns out there was a reason, after  all.

Bet it will look dumb when they show them shooting the walkers down.

Like too obvious they could do that or ridiculous.  If they're shooting from distance, they'd have to be good shots to kill the heads.

And they were shooting a lot of ammo from the sounds of the gunfire, so how do they replenish their ammo?  Eugene going to make them one at a time by hand?

[CrashTextDummie]

I'm reading these spoilers and I see that Henry kills Gavin.

And I ask myself, who is Henry? Who is Gavin?

I guess it goes to show how much attention I am still paying to this show.

[Mr. Sparkle]

They've added a lot of characters that I don't care about. Gavin is the Saviors lieutenant that was at the Kingdom all the time. (The one with the watermelon.) No idea who Henry is. 

ETA: Henry's the kid? The one whose brother was killed? 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Superclam

[rab01]

23 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

That just sounds tiresome.  So Eugene's genius master plan was to ... shoot from windows?  ...

These idiots really have no fucking clue do they?  Show us that before the break in real time and meh, fine.  But after acting like it was something no one else could've devised? Either they're morons or think all their viewers are. 

Also, are they just going to ignore the snipers that Rick left watching Sanctuary who would've sent a runner to report back that much gunfire? 

I am so tired of being played by this show.  Ever since they reached Alexandria, I've had to spend too much time explaining away shit that makes no sense and they've relied too much on stunts to cover up the stupidity.  

Edited February 15, 2018 by rab01

[Nashville]

On 2/14/2018 at 10:36 AM, nodorothyparker said:

That just sounds tiresome.  So Eugene's genius master plan was to ... shoot from windows?  And Kirkman really needs to stop talking if all he can do is offer up a weak fake fakeout.

 

4 hours ago, rab01 said:

These idiots really have no fucking clue do they?  Show us that before the break in real time and meh, fine.  But after acting like it was something no one else could've devised? Either they're morons or think all their viewers are. 

Also, are they just going to ignore the snipers that Rick left watching Sanctuary who would've sent a runner to report back that much gunfire? 

There has to be more to it than that.  HAS to be.

 

Quote

I am so tired of being played by this show.  Ever since they reached Alexandria, I've had to spend too much time explaining away shit that makes no sense and they've relied too much on stunts to cover up the stupidity.  

I’m on the edge myself - especially after Kirkman’s false-hope hijinks.  Fuck that bitch.

[rab01]

the really weird thing is that this portion of the comics is better and more mature than the stuff they used for the early seasons - so why is the show worse?

[Smad]

7 hours ago, Superclam said:

ETA: Henry's the kid? The one whose brother was killed? 

Yep. Henry is Ben's younger brother. The one we saw last in 8x06 with Carol. If this leads to another story about Carol and a child that goes horribly wrong (she was the one who gave him a gun) then all is lost IMO. Think of something new God damn it and stop recycling the same crap over and over. I also don't want another speech about how Rick is going to kill Negan (though there probably will be) when we all know at this point that he won't.

[Mu Shu]

8 hours ago, CrashTextDummie said:

I'm reading these spoilers and I see that Henry kills Gavin.

And I ask myself, who is Henry? Who is Gavin?

I guess it goes to show how much attention I am still paying to this show.

Who is Henry?  Gavin is the one who sucks the least, but who the fuck IS Henry?  

I am yawning over here.  We are supposed to keep track of who these assholes are?  Just kill their asses already. 

ETA:  I see who Henry is.  But I don’t give a shit.

and yeah, fuck that weasel Kirkman. Someone needs to leave a burning bag of shit on his doorstep.  I hope he has chronic canker sores and inflamed hemorrhoids.  For life.  Stupid ass poop face.

well I am mad.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Mu Shu

[Smad]

6 minutes ago, rab01 said:

the really weird thing is that this portion of the comics is better and more mature than the stuff they used for the early seasons - so why is the show worse?

Gimple and his writers IMO. He and them have no idea about structuring an arc. The sickness storyline and 6A were both unrealistic because there was no urgency despite the dire situation. They are forced to do bottle episodes due to budget. Which in itself is not a problem as long as you have writers who know how to write characters. Which this show doesn't. No one talks like a real person, no one has any character development rather they have nonsensical character transplants. Daryl is one example that makes it perfectly clear how much Gimple & Co. suck in that department. Before Gimple took over Daryl was a complex guy. Gimple turned him into an occasionally grunting Neanderthal without any sort of table manners, a game character with activated God mode and since the end of S6 a colossal moron who does what he does for...reasons I suppose and making mistake after mistake. They also focus way too much on characters most people don't care about. It feels like aside from Rick and Daryl, Tara and Rosita are in every episode. While we have to wait for special appearances by Michonne, Maggie and Carol. Enough already, I want them to focus on the long running characters I care about instead of the likes of Rosita or Tara who despite all the focus they get have zero arcs or character development.

[Nashville]

45 minutes ago, rab01 said:

the really weird thing is that this portion of the comics is better and more mature than the stuff they used for the early seasons - so why is the show worse?

Uhhh... because Gimp is straying from the source?

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, rab01 said:

the really weird thing is that this portion of the comics is better and more mature than the stuff they used for the early seasons - so why is the show worse?

I actually think that this is the worse and stupidest story with the most ridiculous characters (Negan, the rest of the Saviors, and Ezekiel) in the comics which is why they are struggling to adapt this arc to the screen. They are also driven by the preposterous; justifying Rick keeping Negan alive. It made no sense in the comics (other than Kirkman loves the character) and it is impossible to rationalize on the show so they are spinning their wheels to find a way to make it happen.

Edited February 15, 2018 by SimoneS

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I actually think that this is the worse and stupidest story with the most ridiculous characters (Negan, the rest of the Saviors, and Ezekiel) in the comics and this is why they are struggling to adapt this arc to the screen. 

No disagreement here - but as bad as Kirkman’s storytelling is, I think Gimp’s imagination is worse.

[SimoneS]

4 minutes ago, Nashville said:

No disagreement here - but as bad as Kirkman’s storytelling is, I think Gimp’s imagination is worse.

I refuse to blame Gimple is this debacle. His adaptation of the material is controlled by Kirkman who was instrumental in getting the last two showrunners fired. The ridiculousness of keeping Negan alive is what Kirkman wants.

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I refuse to blame Gimple is this debacle. His adaptation of the material is controlled by Kirkman who was instrumental in getting the last two showrunners fired. The ridiculousness of keeping Negan alive is what Kirkman wants.

A year ago I’d agree with you; now, though...?  I suspect Gimple has gotten some leverage (witness his recent promotion) and he’s feeling his oats.  

Think Kirkman came up with - or was ok with - killing off a core character who is still a central figure in the GN today?  I don’t.  I suspect Kirkman fought like hell against it; having lost, though, Special K isn’t amenable to the notion of advertising his defeat.

[SnarkyTart]

2 hours ago, Smad said:

Yep. Henry is Ben's younger brother. The one we saw last in 8x06 with Carol. If this leads to another story about Carol and a child that goes horribly wrong (she was the one who gave him a gun) then all is lost IMO.

Honestly, I had to look up both Henry and Gavin to remember who they are too.  While looking up Henry, I ran across a youtube channel of a TWD comics fan who watches and analyzes plot points (as if there are any!) in TWD.  He had some observations regarding Henry. 

He says that TWD Carl strayed pretty far from the Carl character of the comics.  He opines that Comics Carl is a cold-blooded bad ass and would never do a lot of the things that TV Carl does, such as chase off after some guy in the woods to help him with food and supplies.  He also mentions that it was Comics Carl that killed Lizzie, rather than Carol doing it, whereas TWD Carl wouldn't do something like that.  He thinks that, in addition to TWD Carl having physically grown up too much to fit future storylines, it would be out of character for TWD Carl to be involved in some of the upcoming stories in which he's featured.  He, (the youtube guy), thinks Henry may be Carl's replacement to carry forward future plot developments that would otherwise have belonged to Comics Carl.  He bases this speculation on Henry being younger than Chandler, and that Henry has been shown developing his skills and interests in being a bad ass fighter.

Seems possible, in which case I think TWD fans are still going to be so pissed off about Carl's pointless death that the majority of them are unlikely to transfer their attachment from Carl to Henry, a guy who many of us had to look up to remember.  This show is already stupid enough without them asking longtime viewers to mentally replace Carl with Carl 2.0 (Henry).

[Nashville]

@SnarkyTart - interesting proposal, and good points.  

And for the record, I for one would be EXTREMELY unlikely to accept Henry as a Carl surrogate.

[Gobi]

So Gavin, the only savior (besides Dwight) who acted like a believable human, dies, and that back-bending, monologue-spewing joke Negan lives?

[nodorothyparker]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

So Gavin, the only savior (besides Dwight) who acted like a believable human, dies, and that back-bending, monologue-spewing joke Negan lives?

He's the only Savior who's had any degree of shading at all beyond being a one-note asshole monologuer.  So of course he has to go.

[Smad]

13 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

Honestly, I had to look up both Henry and Gavin to remember who they are too.  While looking up Henry, I ran across a youtube channel of a TWD comics fan who watches and analyzes plot points (as if there are any!) in TWD.  He had some observations regarding Henry. 

He says that TWD Carl strayed pretty far from the Carl character of the comics.  He opines that Comics Carl is a cold-blooded bad ass and would never do a lot of the things that TV Carl does, such as chase off after some guy in the woods to help him with food and supplies.  He also mentions that it was Comics Carl that killed Lizzie, rather than Carol doing it, whereas TWD Carl wouldn't do something like that.  He thinks that, in addition to TWD Carl having physically grown up too much to fit future storylines, it would be out of character for TWD Carl to be involved in some of the upcoming stories in which he's featured.  He, (the youtube guy), thinks Henry may be Carl's replacement to carry forward future plot developments that would otherwise have belonged to Comics Carl.  He bases this speculation on Henry being younger than Chandler, and that Henry has been shown developing his skills and interests in being a bad ass fighter.

Seems possible, in which case I think TWD fans are still going to be so pissed off about Carl's pointless death that the majority of them are unlikely to transfer their attachment from Carl to Henry, a guy who many of us had to look up to remember.  This show is already stupid enough without them asking longtime viewers to mentally replace Carl with Carl 2.0 (Henry).

Was it Trevchan's channel? He usually does those fan theory videos and Q&A with what people write in his comments. He also did a Carol becomes Alpha video a long time ago which was just stupid. There are fan theories worth discussing (like Henry taking over Carl's stories) and there is indulging in stupid, nonsensical fan theories (Carol=Alpha). I never watch him really, too much blah blah blah until he gets to the point. There are better channels where people explain certain things about the show/comic.

57 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

He's the only Savior who's had any degree of shading at all beyond being a one-note asshole monologuer.  So of course he has to go.

That's why this whole 'show the Saviors mercy' crap will not work for me. Gavin is like the only named/known Savior where I would be fully on board with 'mercy'. He doesn't want any killing or bloodshed, he never did. And if he'd had his way I bet he would never let Jared (long haired freak) be in his crew back when he was interacting with the Kingdom. They kill Gavin and we are left with the only known Saviors being straight up assholes or sociopaths/psychopaths. How do they expect the audience to get behind Rick showing those guys any mercy? Because we have seen before how that works out for Rick or others when they showed those types mercy or didn't finish the job (see The Gov, Termites, Wolves).

Edited February 16, 2018 by Smad

[rab01]

20 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I actually think that this is the worse and stupidest story with the most ridiculous characters (Negan, the rest of the Saviors, and Ezekiel) in the comics which is why they are struggling to adapt this arc to the screen. They are also driven by the preposterous; justifying Rick keeping Negan alive. It made no sense in the comics (other than Kirkman loves the character) and it is impossible to rationalize on the show so they are spinning their wheels to find a way to make it happen.

In the comics, the Governor has absolutely no depth or intelligence and is seriously the most cliched comic-book character of all of them.  The Show turned him into something interesting.  Before they hit this stretch, I was praying that the Show would do something similar with Negan and lose the harem bullshit (probably somewhere up-thread actually) but instead of making him more realistic and smarter, they made him dumber and more cartoony.  So, I really do think that the Alexandria, Hilltop and Savior storylines had potential. 

[SnarkyTart]

6 hours ago, Smad said:

Was it Trevchan's channel? He usually does those fan theory videos and Q&A with what people write in his comments.

I wish I could say, but I have no idea.  I found it by putting a variety of search terms in google to try to find out who Henry was since I couldn't remember him.  I do remember the guy had dark hair and that he rambled off-topic more than a little, if that helps.