Catelynn (and Tyler)

[ReadMeLattice]

40 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

If you're smoking it every day, all day, like Tyler promotes, they're just like their addict parents. 

Promotes? That's a bit much. He said whenever he has free time, which people generally use to mean "recreationally"; I would assume he wants us to believe he doesn't have much. Of course, we know the truth. 

Even being an enormous stoner (which I believe they are or at least were) wouldn't be "just like" being a violent, abusive crack addict. Marijuana legalization has significantly lowered violent crime rates in Colorado. It's not a positive thing to smoke that much weed, and can screw with your ambition levels and be a big ol' waste of time, but still not a Butch or April level issue by any means. Marijuana addiction is so rare that specialists don't even all agree it exists. 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Lm2162

[CofCinci]

All he has is free time.

He's disgusting.  The best thing Catelynn could ever do is cut this 130lb. noose around her neck.

Edited June 4, 2016 by CofCinci

[Katt]

Then she'd have to walk around with rope burns around her neck for days... 

[ReadMeLattice]

6 hours ago, CofCinci said:

 

He's disgusting.  The best thing Catelynn could ever do is cut this 130lb. noose around her neck.

Well, certainly agree there. I feel for her. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On June 3, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Lm2162 said:

Marijuana is no big deal, way less of an issue than alcohol honestly. A good habit for anxious people if, as in anything, in moderation. That's the least of their problems. 

What the fuck is this business they started?!

I agree as long as you're otherwise a productive member of society.....which Tyler is not. 

Edited June 9, 2016 by MyPeopleAreNordic
I know grammar.

[ReadMeLattice]

11 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I agree as long as your otherwise a productive member of society.....which Tyler is not. 

Agree there. I just think 'promoting rampant drug use/a druggie' is a bit of a stretch for describing 'a stoner,' even if they truly are a hardcore stoner. It really can barely be considered a drug at all, and helps in many cases. He's lazy in general and stonerism is just one part of that, lol. I especially think Catelynn is self-medicating (prescription meds can suck, don't know if she's on them) and has severe depression and anxiety that can ramp up marijuana use that starts off healthy and then might become a bit of a crutch, and in general I just feel really bad for her. 

I mean, I fucking hate Tyler and 99% of what he does except for try not to be like his dad, though, so, meh.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Lm2162

[Caracoa1]

They are so incredibly lazy!  Get off the couch and take a class..it doesn't even have to be educational... ceramics or photography or gymboree for Nova!  

[ghoulina]

12 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I agree as long as your otherwise a productive member of society.....which Tyler is not. 

Exactly. I don't have anything against pot, in general. Just like I don't have anything against alcohol. My husband works in construction all day and some nights likes to have a whiskey and coke when he comes home. Not every night, but most nights. He'll just have one, he doesn't get drunk. I could see someone being the same with pot - smoke a bit to relax or take the edge off, whatever. No biggie. But Tyler doesn't work, doesn't do anything productive. So I really do picture them sitting around and smoking pot and eating all day and checking social media. So pathetic. 

[Birdee]

Honestly, I'm surprised they're even motivated enough to get off their butts and buy weed. Someone must deliver it to their house.

[truelovekiss]

9 hours ago, Birdee said:

Honestly, I'm surprised they're even motivated enough to get off their butts and buy weed. Someone must deliver it to their house.

If that's not already a thing, someone could make a lot of money creating an app where you can order weed and have it delivered in 1 hour or less.

[Katt]

Yeah, you could simply press the hash key on your smart phone. 

[MissMel]

Haha! Brings a whole new meaning to the pound key.

[CofCinci]

Sounds like another business idea for Farrah. 

[DangerousMinds]

11 hours ago, truelovekiss said:

If that's not already a thing, someone could make a lot of money creating an app where you can order weed and have it delivered in 1 hour or less.

It's a thing in California.

[AmyFarrahFowler]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

It's a thing in California.

Washington state too. My regular delivery will come around 2:00 pm today.

[DangerousMinds]

Speedweed.com

[GreatKazu]

On 6/4/2016 at 7:29 AM, Lm2162 said:

Promotes? That's a bit much. He said whenever he has free time, which people generally use to mean "recreationally"; I would assume he wants us to believe he doesn't have much. Of course, we know the truth. 

Even being an enormous stoner (which I believe they are or at least were) wouldn't be "just like" being a violent, abusive crack addict. Marijuana legalization has significantly lowered violent crime rates in Colorado. It's not a positive thing to smoke that much weed, and can screw with your ambition levels and be a big ol' waste of time, but still not a Butch or April level issue by any means. Marijuana addiction is so rare that specialists don't even all agree it exists. 

Tyler has shown anger towards his dog. Catelynn recently revealed Tyler has an anger problem and that the public would be shocked to know just how angry he can get. These two may not be involved in DV situations, but the utter lack of wanting any career, education or acquiring a job is on the Butch and April level.

Butch and April did not offer any support or push these two to be better than they are. 

Of course, having a home and several cars seems to be raising the bar. What more do Cate and Tyler need? 

Tyler smokes during his free time. Considering he does not work and does not care for his child, I guess he is smoking all day. His chances of getting a job are slim since many jobs, including minimum wage jobs, require drug testing.

[ReadMeLattice]

22 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Tyler has shown anger towards his dog. Catelynn recently revealed Tyler has an anger problem and that the public would be shocked to know just how angry he can get. These two may not be involved in DV situations, but the utter lack of wanting any career, education or acquiring a job is on the Butch and April level.

Butch and April did not offer any support or push these two to be better than they are. 

Of course, having a home and several cars seems to be raising the bar. What more do Cate and Tyler need? 

Tyler smokes during his free time. Considering he does not work and does not care for his child, I guess he is smoking all day. His chances of getting a job are slim since many jobs, including minimum wage jobs, require drug testing.

I agree it's not a good lifestyle, but April and Butch were both deeply abusive and neglectful and frequently went to prison. I agree he's a lazy, gross kid and a stoner, and should do a lot more, and he's an asshole. I don't feel the same about Cate because she's clearly uber depressed but I still wish she'd do something. But Butch and April were violent druggies who weren't around at all except to abuse their kids, or partners for Butch, and in and out of prison. That's just not the same. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I recently read "The Girls Who Went Away" about adoption in the baby scoop era. It was a great read. One thing that stuck out to me is that many of the women said they had a hard time bonding with children they had later and kept. They didn't want to form attachments because they were worried at anytime they'd lose the child somehow. Every milestone the child met reminded them that they had missed the relinquished child's same milestone. It was just too difficult and they ended up distancing themselves from the baby/babies they kept until they got treatment (sometimes this was decades later). Sometimes they felt guilt about bonding with their kept babies when they couldn't bond with their relinquished baby. I know the circumstances around Carly's adoption were very different, but I wonder if some of Cate's depression/having April do a lot of babysitting of Nova, etc has to do with issues like this from Carly's adoption. I really hope that if these issues were effecting her after she had Nova that she was able to get some real help in treatment. I have a suspicion these issues might be some of the reasons for Cate's depression, but she can never articulate that publicly because they're still shilling for Bethany Christian Services and singing the praises of adoption as sooo perfect.  

Edited June 17, 2016 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[geekamonggeeks]

This post is pretty long, and it makes more sense in my head, but here goes nothing.

Going by what MyPeopleAreNordic is saying, I think it was the aftermath of Carly's adoption that really did Cate in. First, she received no counseling for her intense loss and subsequent grief (those birth mother meetings she went to a couple times don't really count, IMO). Both she and Tyler should've been in therapy the moment they decided on adoption. I can't imagine giving a child up like that and then not getting any kind of therapeutic help whatsoever. As we've seen, this isn't something you can just get over by yourself. It takes months of therapy to come to terms with relinquishing a child. C&T never learned any real coping skills or ways to detach themselves from Carly in a healthy manner. I think that's part of the reason why Cate felt so overwhelmed when she had Nova; she never moved past losing Carly in a healthy way and didn't know how to handle these feelings because she never learned how to. That, and she's been taking care of her daughter all by herself since day one. It's sad, too, because Catelynn admitted that part of the reason she ultimately placed Carly was so that she wouldn't be a single mother. Tyler threatened to break up with her if she parented, and she feared (or knew) that he would've kept his word. Now, even though they're married with a house and everything, she's still raising a kid by herself. Tyler has proven himself to be a lazy father, thus confirming Catelynn's teenage fears.

Another reason for her inability to bond with Nova could also stem from how Catelynn was treated after placing Carly. A lot of her family members---including her own mother---verbally abused her and treated her like garbage for her decision. They acted like the adoption was akin to Catelynn throwing her infant into a Dumpster and walking away without looking back. Instead of supporting her, getting her therapy, and telling her that she made the right choice, they told her over and over again that she was a worthless piece of shit for what she did. Cate seems like she's always had low self esteem; making such a huge sacrifice and then being degraded for it only made things worse. I mean, Tyler got some shit for it, too, but he wasn't living with it daily like Cate was. If he got tired of Butch's crap, he went home to Kim and received nothing but praise and support for placing Carly. Cate never got that. She didn't get to escape the barrage of nasty comments and physical fights until a couple years later. I remember in the very first episode of "Teen Mom", Cate and Butch got into a vicious argument over the adoption and April actually pushed Cate away and got in her face for fighting with Butch. April, the one person who's supposed to unconditionally love her daughter no matter what, demeaned her, picked a man over her, and made it clear she was not welcome in their home for daring to make a different parenting choice. Cate's a pretty forgiving person, but it's possible that caring for Nova may have dredged up those old feelings of inadequacy. It may make Cate think, "How can I be there for my child when my own mother wasn't there for me for most of my life?" 

Cate's been given conditional love her entire life. April's always been a shitty mom, and she literally pushed Catelynn away after the adoption. Tyler made her jump through all those ridiculous hoops to marry him, thereby earning his love and affection. She's afraid to call him out on his bullshit out of fear that he'll withhold that love and affection because he's so easily done it before. Even Carly most likely doesn't love Cate the same way she loves Teresa. Nobody in Catelyn's life has ever given her 100%. They've always expected something in return. Nova expects everything because sh can't take care of herself and Tyler won't help. I think Catelynn is just burned out from the adoption experience, from the aftermath and from the fact that she's most likely emotionally starved due to her dysfunctional past and present. There are several factors into why Cate is the way she is and why she's so distant from Nova. Those are just a few based on what I've seen on the show having watched it for seven years.

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, geekamonggeeks said:

This post is pretty long, and it makes more sense in my head, but here goes nothing.

Going by what MyPeopleAreNordic is saying, I think it was the aftermath of Carly's adoption that really did Cate in. First, she received no counseling for her intense loss and subsequent grief (those birth mother meetings she went to a couple times don't really count, IMO). Both she and Tyler should've been in therapy the moment they decided on adoption. I can't imagine giving a child up like that and then not getting any kind of therapeutic help whatsoever. As we've seen, this isn't something you can just get over by yourself. It takes months of therapy to come to terms with relinquishing a child. C&T never learned any real coping skills or ways to detach themselves from Carly in a healthy manner. I think that's part of the reason why Cate felt so overwhelmed when she had Nova; she never moved past losing Carly in a healthy way and didn't know how to handle these feelings because she never learned how to. That, and she's been taking care of her daughter all by herself since day one. It's sad, too, because Catelynn admitted that part of the reason she ultimately placed Carly was so that she wouldn't be a single mother. Tyler threatened to break up with her if she parented, and she feared (or knew) that he would've kept his word. Now, even though they're married with a house and everything, she's still raising a kid by herself. Tyler has proven himself to be a lazy father, thus confirming Catelynn's teenage fears.

Another reason for her inability to bond with Nova could also stem from how Catelynn was treated after placing Carly. A lot of her family members---including her own mother---verbally abused her and treated her like garbage for her decision. They acted like the adoption was akin to Catelynn throwing her infant into a Dumpster and walking away without looking back. Instead of supporting her, getting her therapy, and telling her that she made the right choice, they told her over and over again that she was a worthless piece of shit for what she did. Cate seems like she's always had low self esteem; making such a huge sacrifice and then being degraded for it only made things worse. I mean, Tyler got some shit for it, too, but he wasn't living with it daily like Cate was. If he got tired of Butch's crap, he went home to Kim and received nothing but praise and support for placing Carly. Cate never got that. She didn't get to escape the barrage of nasty comments and physical fights until a couple years later. I remember in the very first episode of "Teen Mom", Cate and Butch got into a vicious argument over the adoption and April actually pushed Cate away and got in her face for fighting with Butch. April, the one person who's supposed to unconditionally love her daughter no matter what, demeaned her, picked a man over her, and made it clear she was not welcome in their home for daring to make a different parenting choice. Cate's a pretty forgiving person, but it's possible that caring for Nova may have dredged up those old feelings of inadequacy. It may make Cate think, "How can I be there for my child when my own mother wasn't there for me for most of my life?" 

Cate's been given conditional love her entire life. April's always been a shitty mom, and she literally pushed Catelynn away after the adoption. Tyler made her jump through all those ridiculous hoops to marry him, thereby earning his love and affection. She's afraid to call him out on his bullshit out of fear that he'll withhold that love and affection because he's so easily done it before. Even Carly most likely doesn't love Cate the same way she loves Teresa. Nobody in Catelyn's life has ever given her 100%. They've always expected something in return. Nova expects everything because sh can't take care of herself and Tyler won't help. I think Catelynn is just burned out from the adoption experience, from the aftermath and from the fact that she's most likely emotionally starved due to her dysfunctional past and present. There are several factors into why Cate is the way she is and why she's so distant from Nova. Those are just a few based on what I've seen on the show having watched it for seven years.

I can agree with almost all of this. I do think that Cate is a sweet person with a kind heart (I could tell that from the way she took care of her little brother), and growing up as she did with April for a mother etc makes me understand why she clung to Tyler as hard as she has. I have no doubt she wants to be a nurturing loving Mom to Nova, but I think she's been clinically depressed for a long time. People can only take so much before they are spent emotionally. Catelynn may also fear that Nova may not love her, and she wants to protect herself from the pain. I think she needs intense therapy and a supportive adult to help her decide what type of parent she wants to be. Tyler may be "there" but he's no help (sadly that happens a lot). 

[DangerousMinds]

Of course Carly loves Teresa, she is her mother. Cate is not.

[geekamonggeeks]

18 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Of course Carly loves Teresa, she is her mother. Cate is not.

 

Of course. That's what I was trying to get at (I think my post, being so long, made more sense before I tried composing it). Carly loves Teresa because she's her mom and her only mom in the traditional sense. Catelynn may have "pushed that baby out of [her] vaginal canal", but in the end of the day she isn't Carly's real mother. Carly probably loves her and is excited when she sees her, but it's not even close to the same thing. I think that was a very bitter pill for Cate to swallow since she may have been holding out hope that she and Carly would have a very close bond. That could also partially explain her disinterest in Nova. Cate didn't bond with her firstborn and then had to watch her firstborn bond with somebody else, call somebody else Mom, etc. Catelynn seems like she has more respect for Brandon and Teresa as Carly's parents than Tyler and his family do, but this all calls back to the lack of post-adoption therapy and treatment. If Catelynn had gotten some sort of professional help to cope with her traumatic loss, maybe it wouldn't hurt so bad and mess her up when it comes to bonding with her own daughter.

Both she and Tyler have had issues with the adoption and their rather minuscule roles in Carly's life. But while Tyler carries on loudly and tries to raise a ruckus, Catelynn internalizes her pain and tries to ignore it or act like it's not coming from the most obvious source. As others have posted, part of her problem is Bethany misled her about what her realtionship with Carly would look like. They made it seem like C&T called all the shots even after the adoption was finalized, that they'd be super close to Carly, act like her second set of parents, have her spend her summer vacations with them, etc. Then reality hit and it was nothing like what Cate was promised. That'd be a pretty bitter pill for anybody to swallow, but she can't admit it because she and Tyler are Bethany's prized birth parents. If they start admitting they were deceived, they can kiss some of their income goodbye.

[ghoulina]

I definitely think that those two were given very unrealistic expectations about what an open adoption would entail. I also don't think Cate wanted to give up her baby. I think she felt pressured by Tyler. Cate seems more naive and romantic about things (not just boys). I believe she probably had ideas about them fighting the odds and bringing up their baby despite their crappy circumstances. I don't think she ever really got over that, and may feel a lot of resentment towards Nova. The whole situation is fucked. 

[geekamonggeeks]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I definitely think that those two were given very unrealistic expectations about what an open adoption would entail. I also don't think Cate wanted to give up her baby. I think she felt pressured by Tyler. Cate seems more naive and romantic about things (not just boys). I believe she probably had ideas about them fighting the odds and bringing up their baby despite their crappy circumstances. I don't think she ever really got over that, and may feel a lot of resentment towards Nova. The whole situation is fucked. 

Cate had many legitimate reasons for why she initially wanted to give Carly up for adoption. I think she agreed to it with very good intentions. Then, as her pregnancy progressed and her bond with the baby strengthened, she began to lose sight of those intentions and why she first thought adoption was the best choice. At one point, she was changing her mind every other week over whether or not she was going to keep the baby. One week, the adoption was definitely going to happen; the next, she's telling her mother she's going to keep Carly no matter what. April buying her all sorts of infant things---including a bassinet for Cate's bedroom---probably only fueled her conflict and made her feel more indecisive. I forget how it went down in "16 and Pregnant", but I don't think Tyler ever entertained the idea of keeping the baby---at least not seriously---and made it clear to Cate when she was feeling doubtful that he would break up with her if she changed her mind. Instead of offering support and gently reminding her why they decided on adoption, he straight-up played with her insecurities and abandonment issues. He did not want to raise Carly nor did he want to financially support her. So Cate went through with the adoption for several reasons---partially to give Carly a better life, partially so she wouldn't be a single mom, and partially to appease Tyler.

If Tyler had changed his mind on the adoption, then Cate would have Carly with her right now. Of course, if that happened, there's a good chance that Nova wouldn't exist because C&T would've broken up before Carly even turned a year old, Tyler wouldn't be helping or offering much in child support, etc. You know, sort of like what he's doing right now. It just makes me sad for Nova. Her parents are messing her up big time. At least Carly got to escape this dysfunction. Nova is dwelling in it, and her mother's too much of a sadsack and her father is too useless and self-absorbed to fix it.

Edited June 20, 2016 by geekamonggeeks

[shelley1234]

I do think Cate and Tyler were given unreasonable expectations about an open adoption and what it would be like, however I also think that everyone involved had no idea the impact of the show on all of their lives.  I think if Cate and Tyler were just normal, run of the mill birth parents that things would be very different and Teresa and Brandon wouldn't be as lock down as they are when it comes to Carly.  I do think Cate regrets giving up Carly, but at the same time I think she also sees the world that was given to her by the sacrifice of adoption.  I think that is pretty typical of birth parents.  I think it's compounded by being on tv and having every second of her life watched by millions.  

And I don't agree with the masses that Tyler doesn't have those same feelings.  I think he does as well, however he just isn't as emotional as Cate.  I do think he was more for the adoption and I give him credit for that, since I strongly believe it was the right choice.  Carly's life is a million times better because she was placed for adoption.  I do think Tyler is more controlling and really doesn't like someone else telling him what to do...hence the tantrums and the posting pics even though he knows he can't.  Cate understands the deal and I also think she much more than Tyler lives in constant fear that Teresa and Brandon are going to cut off all contact and she'll never see Carly again.  

As for the lack of bonding with Nova, as someone said above...it is often pretty common with mothers when they have put up a child for adoption and then have a child that they choose to raise.  It is hard to not compare everything to the child you gave up and also not feel guilty for doing things for the child you kept.  I do wish both Cate and Tyler both got real therapy.  They need it.  Badly.  

[DangerousMinds]

Adoption was absolutely the right choice. I hope they come to fully realize that.

[kira28]

I think Cate is just lazy and doesn't like to do anything that requires any effort. Children can be exhausting especially babies. They are a lot of work as they are entirely dependent on you! Cate and tyler got to be "parents" to Carly and it brought them mostly good things with little effort. They received tons of praise and attention and more money than either had ever dreamed of. They felt like they were Carly's parents and they had to do nothing but buy some cheap crap to send to her for Christmas or sit around and wait for pictures of Carly to arrive. They could cuddle on the couch under that hideous Carly blanket and think about their "daughter" and what great parents they would have been if they had kept  her.  Fast forward, what? Seven years and they are still the same two lazy pieces of crap and they decide to have a baby (probably to keep the TM train rolling). Their own daughter Nova actually requires effort, there is no handing her off to someone else to raise (well April) and Nova is a lot of work. Cate has no interest in that. She found out the hard way that a child is a lot of responsibility and she and Tyler don't enjoy that. Hence poor Nova is dumped on every relative they can find, much like what Janelle does with her kids.

[geekamonggeeks]

I agree that playing "parents" to Carly from far away definitely has something do with with C&T's disinterest in Nova. It's easy to act like a mom and dad to a child you barely see and aren't paying for. It was fun for Cate and Ty to be Carly's "parents" because they only got to play with her and give her gifts. They didn't have to clean her up, change her diapers, deal with her temper tantrums, take care of her when she's sick, the list goes on and on. But they have to do all that for Nova, and they hate it.

I do think Catelynn has genuine issues stemming from the adoption and her horrible, chaotic childhood. But Tyler can go kick rocks. I've never liked him, not even from the beginning. He always came across as phony and reaching to me.

And, yes, there are a lot of similarities between Catelynn and Jenelle. Cate doesn't get nearly as much flak though, I guess because she's playing the PPD card and gave her first child up for adoption---something Jenelle should've done when she had the chance.

Edited June 21, 2016 by geekamonggeeks

[Tatum]

On 6/21/2016 at 0:15 PM, kira28 said:

I think Cate is just lazy and doesn't like to do anything that requires any effort. Children can be exhausting especially babies. They are a lot of work as they are entirely dependent on you! Cate and tyler got to be "parents" to Carly and it brought them mostly good things with little effort. They received tons of praise and attention and more money than either had ever dreamed of. They felt like they were Carly's parents and they had to do nothing but buy some cheap crap to send to her for Christmas or sit around and wait for pictures of Carly to arrive. They could cuddle on the couch under that hideous Carly blanket and think about their "daughter" and what great parents they would have been if they had kept  her.  Fast forward, what? Seven years and they are still the same two lazy pieces of crap and they decide to have a baby (probably to keep the TM train rolling). Their own daughter Nova actually requires effort, there is no handing her off to someone else to raise (well April) and Nova is a lot of work. Cate has no interest in that. She found out the hard way that a child is a lot of responsibility and she and Tyler don't enjoy that. Hence poor Nova is dumped on every relative they can find, much like what Janelle does with her kids.

I think Cate is a nice person- way more than I can say for Jenelle- but I can't argue with much of the above. Cate is lazy to the extreme. She makes Amber look like a go-getter.

[Scarlett45]

On June 22, 2016 at 0:51 PM, Tatum said:

I think Cate is a nice person- way more than I can say for Jenelle- but I can't argue with much of the above. Cate is lazy to the extreme. She makes Amber look like a go-getter.

I don't think Cate is ambitious, but if she is clinically depressed that would explain the slug like demeanor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Catelynn basically raise her little brother Nick from the time he was a baby until she took custody because April was doing god knows what with whomever? That little boy loved his sister fiercely as if she were his primary caretaker. That tells me she's 110x the human being Jenelle is. Lazy, unmotivated and needs mental health care? I can absolutely see it, but I don't think she's a moral failure. I think if she got HELP she could be a nurturing Mom to Nova. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don't think Cate is ambitious, but if she is clinically depressed that would explain the slug like demeanor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Catelynn basically raise her little brother Nick from the time he was a baby until she took custody because April was doing god knows what with whomever? That little boy loved his sister fiercely as if she were his primary caretaker. That tells me she's 110x the human being Jenelle is. Lazy, unmotivated and needs mental health care? I can absolutely see it, but I don't think she's a moral failure. I think if she got HELP she could be a nurturing Mom to Nova. 

Exactly. Cate may not be a go-getter, but I think the laziness we've seen of late is probably due to depression. As someone who has battled clinical depression most of my adult life as well as prenatal depression, I agree her "laziness" looks like depression to me. I think Cate is a good person. I think Jenelle is a sociopath. 

[CofCinci]

Looks like their "Reunite" series will be on Mtv. 

http://www.mtv.com/casting-calls/reunite

[Katt]

Like Barbara, Butch is also getting a spin-off special. It airs on July 18. I will NOT be watching.

37 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Looks like their "Reunite" series will be on Mtv. 

http://www.mtv.com/casting-calls/reunite

No more Tyler, thanks. 

[geekamonggeeks]

This show is a disaster in the making. Considering how Cate jumped from therapy to doing another TV series, I can't help but wonder how long it'll take before she hits the slippery slope again. Somebody on Reddit posted a photo of Cate taken when "Teen Mom" went on hiatus a few years ago. She honestly looked great, and healthy to boot. Now she's miserable and sickly; she looks worse than ever. I wonder how much of it is PPD, how much is adoption anxiety, and how much of it stems from the fact that Cate is sick of being on TV. I also wonder how much Tyler twisted her arm when MTV told them they were bringing back "Teen Mom". Something tells me he was more willing to be back on TV than she was.

Edited to Add: I don't know if I'd be able to watch a Butch-centric show. He's such a horrible person and I was cringing when he went up to Carly during the wedding and then more or less said he had a right to since he's biologically related to her. I can barely handle Tyler's self-entitlement as it stands. I also wonder how long it'll take before Tyler complains about the adoption again since he never seems happy unless he's dragging Brandon and Teresa through the mud for some petty reason?

Edited July 10, 2016 by geekamonggeeks

[geekamonggeeks]

I was browsing through the "Teen Mom" subreddit and somebody posted that Catelynn and Tyler are in Hawaii again and didn't bring Nova. A producer was with them, so chances are they're being filmed for the show (I know it returns this August). Weren't these two just in Hawaii a little over a year ago? They didn't bring Nova then, either, but at least they were on a honeymoon that time. I also understand parents needing time away from their kids every so often, but C&T take it to ridiculous extremes. They don't work, don't go to school, and pawn their kid off every chance they get. They complain about all they've missed with Carly, but ignore the daughter they actually did keep and did get to raise. Before they know it, Nova will be independent (well, as independent as she can get being raised by these two), and they'll sit and wonder how it happened. They're missing out on so much with her and they don't get it. They'd rather talk about the kid they didn't keep than focus on the one they did. It's messed up.

[Darknight]

Ok long post about domestic infant adoption. 

 

I'm a foster parent so it's completely different than infant adoption. Infant adoption is a big business. White healthy babies are in high demand. Agencies charge couples 40k to adopt a healthy white baby. Some agencies and adoptive parents are willing to do anything for a white healthy baby. Including lying to a pregnantwoman, using emotional tatics to get her to choose adoption instead if parenting or aborting, make her sign away her rights when she's just out of a c section and coming off meds, make promises they can't keep, and tons of corruption. 

 

Bethany is horrible. Read the child catchers or birth mother who placed with them. You'll read what they told a young woman and learn more about the business of adoption. Bethany christian services targets women and uses the whole christian stuff on her. God allowed her to get pregnant to give her baby away to an infertile couple. There's tons of online stuff about them. Mostly negative. Most adoptions close within five years. Birth parents have no legal rights once they sign away their rights. Utah have lax adoption laws and you could sign in a parking lot. 

 

Dawn and BCS saw two uneducated teens with a healthy white baby. Their counseling is bullshit. The birth mothers they have on panel work for them to encourage women to place their babies for adoption instead of aborting or parenting. Apparently a single woman can't raise kids. Because children need a mom and dad. There's a reason why Caitlyn and Tyler were hired by Bethany. Dawn and Brandon and Thersea probably made a bunch of promises to C&T. They probably thought they would co parent Carly. I don't think anyone thought the show would last this long. The adoption would've been closed by now. But due to the show it makes Bethany and B&T look bad. 

 

Caitlyn should've gotten real legit therapy before during and after. Birth mother grief doesn't go away. It's for life. It feels like a death but your child isn't dead. It probably hurts Caitlyn to hear the child you've birthed call someone mommy but she's just Caitlynn. Then she had a replacement baby and probably can't bond with Nova. She needs to get away from Tyler stop having babies and take care of herself. Get a job, hobby, do something. Caitlynn just sits on her ass and does nothing. You have a kid now you're raising. She probably thought she would see Carly more since Nova is her full blood sibling. 

Excuse the typos. Too lazy to edit. 

[geekamonggeeks]

Catelynn and Tyler will never admit that Bethany lied to them. Ever. It's probably too painful, for one thing, and acting as "spokespeople" for Bethany is their bread and butter. They themselves get paid to go on the extreme pro-life circuit and tell pregnant, scared, vulnerable women about how giving up their babies is the best thing they can do. Then they go on TV and bitch about their own adoption plan and how "unfair" Brandon and Teresa are for not letting them share Carly's photos with their crazy fans or for not wanting to bring Carly onto a reunion show. They either don't understand or flat-out ignore that there's a disconnect between "Adopting through BCS is GREAT" and "How come we can't see Carly more?"

I always wondered if Dawn maybe lied to or misled Brandon and Teresa as well. They were initially looking for a closed adoption, then wanted a semi-open when Catelynn and Tyler expressed interest in them. Maybe Dawn told them that C&T were totally down for a semi-open adoption even though they clearly wanted a 100% open plan. Then again, Dawn should never have had those two couples meet in the first place. When one couple wants no contact whatsoever and the other couple wants contact all the time, there's going to be problems. I think B&T have been great so far in regards to letting C&T have contact with Carly. They get photos and updates, and they get to visit her. She even came to their freaking wedding, which is going way above and beyond the call of duty. If B&T were only keeping up a relationship with C&T for fear of bad publicity, then they would have cut things off completely when the show got canceled the first time. I think BCS tells them to play nice because it gives the agency good PR.

Remember when Catelynn told Dawn she didn't know what B&T expected from their adoption arrangement? Red flag right there. How could C&T not know what B&T wanted after six years? If that isn't a sign that Dawn completely bungled this entire thing, then I don't know what is.

Edited July 13, 2016 by geekamonggeeks

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, geekamonggeeks said:

Catelynn and Tyler will never admit that Bethany lied to them. Ever. It's probably too painful, for one thing, and acting as "spokespeople" for Bethany is their bread and butter. They themselves get paid to go on the extreme pro-life circuit and tell pregnant, scared, vulnerable women about how giving up their babies is the best thing they can do. Then they go on TV and bitch about their own adoption plan and how "unfair" Brandon and Teresa are for not letting them share Carly's photos with their crazy fans or for not wanting to bring Carly onto a reunion show. They either don't understand or flat-out ignore that there's a disconnect between "Adopting through BCS is GREAT" and "How come we can't see Carly more?"

I always wondered if Dawn maybe lied to or misled Brandon and Teresa as well. They were initially looking for a closed adoption, then wanted a semi-open when Catelynn and Tyler expressed interest in them. Maybe Dawn told them that C&T were totally down for a semi-open adoption even though they clearly wanted a 100% open plan. Then again, Dawn should never have had those two couples meet in the first place. When one couple wants no contact whatsoever and the other couple wants contact all the time, there's going to be problems. I think B&T have been great so far in regards to letting C&T have contact with Carly. They get photos and updates, and they get to visit her. She even came to their freaking wedding, which is going way above and beyond the call of duty. If B&T were only keeping up a relationship with C&T for fear of bad publicity, then they would have cut things off completely when the show got canceled the first time. I think BCS tells them to play nice because it gives the agency good PR.

Remember when Catelynn told Dawn she didn't know what B&T expected from their adoption arrangement? Red flag right there. How could C&T not know what B&T wanted after six years? If that isn't a sign that Dawn completely bungled this entire thing, then I don't know what is.

I absolutely believe that C&T will never admit Bethanny lied to them about what the adoption would entail. I do think over the years Brandon & Theresa have grown fond of Catelynn (perhaps Tyler too) and maybe their eyes were opened a bit that she was a sweet sweet girl who was dealt a bad hand in life and wanted to be adopted along with Carly. THIS is why they allow as much contact as they do. 

Catelynn needs therapy and a job outside of being a spokesperson for Bethanny. 

3 hours ago, geekamonggeeks said:

Catelynn and Tyler will never admit that Bethany lied to them. Ever. It's probably too painful, for one thing, and acting as "spokespeople" for Bethany is their bread and butter. They themselves get paid to go on the extreme pro-life circuit and tell pregnant, scared, vulnerable women about how giving up their babies is the best thing they can do. Then they go on TV and bitch about their own adoption plan and how "unfair" Brandon and Teresa are for not letting them share Carly's photos with their crazy fans or for not wanting to bring Carly onto a reunion show. They either don't understand or flat-out ignore that there's a disconnect between "Adopting through BCS is GREAT" and "How come we can't see Carly more?"

I always wondered if Dawn maybe lied to or misled Brandon and Teresa as well. They were initially looking for a closed adoption, then wanted a semi-open when Catelynn and Tyler expressed interest in them. Maybe Dawn told them that C&T were totally down for a semi-open adoption even though they clearly wanted a 100% open plan. Then again, Dawn should never have had those two couples meet in the first place. When one couple wants no contact whatsoever and the other couple wants contact all the time, there's going to be problems. I think B&T have been great so far in regards to letting C&T have contact with Carly. They get photos and updates, and they get to visit her. She even came to their freaking wedding, which is going way above and beyond the call of duty. If B&T were only keeping up a relationship with C&T for fear of bad publicity, then they would have cut things off completely when the show got canceled the first time. I think BCS tells them to play nice because it gives the agency good PR.

Remember when Catelynn told Dawn she didn't know what B&T expected from their adoption arrangement? Red flag right there. How could C&T not know what B&T wanted after six years? If that isn't a sign that Dawn completely bungled this entire thing, then I don't know what is.

I absolutely believe that C&T will never admit Bethanny lied to them about what the adoption would entail. I do think over the years Brandon & Theresa have grown fond of Catelynn (perhaps Tyler too) and maybe their eyes were opened a bit that she was a sweet sweet girl who was dealt a bad hand in life and wanted to be adopted along with Carly. THIS is why they allow as much contact as they do. 

Catelynn needs therapy and a job outside of being a spokesperson for Bethanny. 

[Darknight]

Here's what BCS said to a young birth mother when she tried to contact the adoptive parents of her son

"When Jordan called Bethany’s statewide headquarters one night, her shepherding mother answered, responding coldly to Jordan’s lament. “You’re the one who spread your legs and got pregnant out of wedlock,” she told Jordan. “You have no right to grieve for this baby.”

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/shotgun-adoption/

[Darknight]

6 hours ago, geekamonggeeks said:

Catelynn and Tyler will never admit that Bethany lied to them. Ever. It's probably too painful, for one thing, and acting as "spokespeople" for Bethany is their bread and butter. They themselves get paid to go on the extreme pro-life circuit and tell pregnant, scared, vulnerable women about how giving up their babies is the best thing they can do. Then they go on TV and bitch about their own adoption plan and how "unfair" Brandon and Teresa are for not letting them share Carly's photos with their crazy fans or for not wanting to bring Carly onto a reunion show. They either don't understand or flat-out ignore that there's a disconnect between "Adopting through BCS is GREAT" and "How come we can't see Carly more?"

I always wondered if Dawn maybe lied to or misled Brandon and Teresa as well. They were initially looking for a closed adoption, then wanted a semi-open when Catelynn and Tyler expressed interest in them. Maybe Dawn told them that C&T were totally down for a semi-open adoption even though they clearly wanted a 100% open plan. Then again, Dawn should never have had those two couples meet in the first place. When one couple wants no contact whatsoever and the other couple wants contact all the time, there's going to be problems. I think B&T have been great so far in regards to letting C&T have contact with Carly. They get photos and updates, and they get to visit her. She even came to their freaking wedding, which is going way above and beyond the call of duty. If B&T were only keeping up a relationship with C&T for fear of bad publicity, then they would have cut things off completely when the show got canceled the first time. I think BCS tells them to play nice because it gives the agency good PR.

Remember when Catelynn told Dawn she didn't know what B&T expected from their adoption arrangement? Red flag right there. How could C&T not know what B&T wanted after six years? If that isn't a sign that Dawn completely bungled this entire thing, then I don't know what is.

Yep. And most birth mothers want open adoptions. But they don't know it doesn't matter what they want. They have no legal rights to their child the adoptive parents do. 

 

BCS used C&T. Both for their prolife bs and their adoption bs. Adoption isn't all flowers and rainbows. Speak to birth mothers that are grieving. Speak to birth mothers that were lied to. Speak to birth mothers that promises were made. Speak to birth fathers and how the agencies told the birth mom to lie about not knowing who the father was. That's why Utah is a hot spot. That's why some agencies try to isolate the birth mom to guilt her into placing her child for adoption. Women now just don't choose adoption. It's much easier to be a single parent now than 60 years ago during the baby scoop era. Single parenthood isn't shamed. Unless you're BCS. BCS said a child needs a christian mother and father. That's why BCS allowed themselves to be advertise. More  white babies =$$$

The reason why I'm pointing out white babies is because they're in demand. Black babies are hardly adopted but cost less. 

 

I think once the show ends. BCS and B&T will cut ties with C&T. I wonder how BCS felt when they had another out of wedlock child. 

[geekamonggeeks]

16 minutes ago, Darknight said:

Here's what BCS said to a young birth mother when she tried to contact the adoptive parents of her son

"When Jordan called Bethany’s statewide headquarters one night, her shepherding mother answered, responding coldly to Jordan’s lament. “You’re the one who spread your legs and got pregnant out of wedlock,” she told Jordan. “You have no right to grieve for this baby.”

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/shotgun-adoption/

Holy hell. I can believe it. I've heard and read so many things about this place, none of them any good. The only reason Dawn still puts up with C&T is because they give the agency all sorts of publicity. If "Teen Mom" hadn't come along, Dawn would have slammed the door in their faces the first time they came to her post-adoption.

The question I have is what did the adoptive parents think? Did they go along with it, lying right along with BCS until the adoption was finalized? Were they lied to as well and led to believe that this young woman changed her mind about wanting a relationship with them? I think Brandon and Teresa really give a lot to Catelynn and Tyler, but I guess there are people out there who don't have any scruples and are willing to deceive and manipulate these birth parents until they get exactly what they want.

Also, I'm not sure if B&T will cut off ties if "OG" ever ends. They didn't cut off contact the first time the show was canceled. I think they genuinely want Carly to have some sort of a relationship with C&T; the only reason I can see them ending things if is C&T (well, Tyler, actually) really push their boundaries and get too creepy or possessive.

Edited July 14, 2016 by geekamonggeeks

[Caracoa1]

I wish Tyler and Catelynn would stop thinking of themselves for one moment and think how this is affecting Carly as she is growing older.  In school, her classmates may not watch Teen Mom but their parents could be watching and discussing it in front of them...how awful!  Going to school and being teased about your jailbird Grandpa Butch, your birth parents going on and on about you and your birth father being a lazy ass fame whore!  I hope Carly realizes the truly awful life she managed to escape.  

[GreatKazu]

On 7/17/2016 at 8:07 AM, Caracoa1 said:

I wish Tyler and Catelynn would stop thinking of themselves for one moment and think how this is affecting Carly as she is growing older.  In school, her classmates may not watch Teen Mom but their parents could be watching and discussing it in front of them...how awful!  Going to school and being teased about your jailbird Grandpa Butch, your birth parents going on and on about you and your birth father being a lazy ass fame whore!  I hope Carly realizes the truly awful life she managed to escape.  

Right. None of these people are thinking about Carly, except Brandon and Theresa.

[MissMel]

I don't know for sure. I almost think the show might help her a little. Of course Brandon and Theresa's guidance is the most important but I think the show could/might also help. It seems like there is going to be a relationship between Caitlyn and Carly. (And dippy, I mean Tyler)  April, Butch, and everyone else are C&T's family, not Carly's. I don't know, I just imagine if Carly does get teased she has a pretty decent comeback. C&T are just her biological parents so all the other people are theirs, not hers. Her family is her family. Thank God. And laugh it off. That would help a lot in shutting down any negative comments. B&T chose her-the other kid's family just took what they got. At least that's how my friend in grade school snapped back. It worked pretty well!

It's unfortunate the show pretty much guarantees some teasing but I think Brandon and Theresa can help Carly handle it. I feel the same way when it comes to Jace about Jennelle on TM2. I hope when it's handled, the kids will be able to see the show as a blessing to them. I mean, it will at least show them where they came from instead of them wondering and possibly romanticize the unknown. I imagine both will think the life they have isn't so bad considering what it could have been.

Edited July 19, 2016 by MissMel

[Miss Chevious]

Just saw the Being Butch special. Didn't see a category for this, so I'll just post my observations here. I was never a big Butch fan, but I was pleasantly surprised to see he really is working on getting his act together. He now has a job and a new girlfriend who seems to have her head on straight. He seems to genuinely regret his cruel comment to Tyler about how cocaine was the most important thing in his life even more than his children. He has goals to continue his sobriety and own property. He seemed to be a loving Grandpa in his scenes with Nova. I wish him luck and hope he continues to stay on the straight and narrow.

[Bijou]

"Being Butch" -Shouldn't mean, being unable to clean a toilet.

Happy for him and his lovely lady friend.

[smores]

Good Lord, that toilet was disgusting.

[ghoulina]

I too was impressed Butch has his own company going and his girlfriend seems really grounded and stable. I'm glad he gave her the key necklace instead of a fucking promise ring! I just hope he really can stay on track for good. His refusal to admit he was actually addicted to "crack-cocaine" is a bit worrisome. Sometimes I think he depends on external factors to keep him on the right path, especially with this woman. I hope he has really found a strength within himself. 

I didn't care for how much Tyler was on, though. I get that that he's a big part of Butch's life, and I actually appreciate how honest and open Tyler is with his dad. But we all know that dude is a straight up fame whore. He couldn't stay away from the cameras if they paid him. 

And dude never looked so unattractive in his life. He looked so pasty and doughy! I've never been personally attracted to him, but I could see how girls would find him attractive. But wow, something changed, because he looked awful. 

[qtpye]

Tyler has sort of a squinchy puggish face that will not age well.  He might not gain weight, but his bad health habits will probably catch up to him sooner then later.