S01.E08: Milk

[formerlyfreedom]

Finale! Airing 8/26/2018 -

Quote

Concerned for the safety of Amma, Camille puts her own life in jeopardy as she gets closer to the truth behind the shocking mysteries surrounding the Wind Gap killings.

 

[preeya]

I posted this in S01E07 Falling as my prediction for the finale.

The way I see it: 

My two cent prediction.

Adora is guilty of murder (Marian) and attempted murder (Amma). She will likely be committed to a mental institution because she is one sick person.

The other two murdered girls were likely killed by the trio of "marauding skaters" (Amma and her two friends).

I can't envision Amma being strong enough to have done it alone.   JMHO

Edited August 27, 2018 by preeya

[ferjy]

5 hours ago, preeya said:

I posted this in S01E07 Falling as my prediction for the finale.

The way I see it:  My two cent prediction.

Adora guilty of murder (Marian) and attempted murder (Amma). Will probably be committed to a mental institution, because she is one sick person.

The other two murdered girls likely killed by the "marauding skaters" (Amma and her two friends). I can't envision Amma being strong enough to have done it alone.   JMHO

The Adora situation, yes. But as far as Amma goes, as others have noted, not enough in the show has pointed to Amma, so it would be a poor conclusion if they go that route.

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy

[ShellsandCheese]

Hated it. The way the ending and big reveal were handled, sucked. Ugh. 

[HollyG]

In the last scene during the credits, was she harming the new little friend now?  Are they really just going to leave it like that? Hated the ending!

Edited August 27, 2018 by HollyG

[Broderbits]

In spite of the terrific actors, I am disappointed with this series; there were too many boring moments and not enough coherent exposition. They really should have made a movie out of the book.

[angelamh66]

I didn't mind the twist, but I would have preferred an explanation as to why she killed those girls. 

[VagueDisclaimer]

With all the meandering we did to classic rock, drinking and driving for 7 episodes, they literally rushed through two huge plot points in under an hour and ended on a tease of a reveal, sneaking in a random flash in the credits.

How deeply unsatisfying.

[eyewatchtv]

I loved the series.

[Chaos Theory]

I know a lot of people are going to complain about the slow slow burn and sudden ending but I really liked it.  Of course the killer turns out to be Amna.  No one gets out of that family alive.  Not really.  Adora’ is going to spend a good portion of her life in prison but more importantly her reputation ruined. Camille is going to have to live with the truth about her family.  And Amna is seriously fucked up.

i liked the ending even though it jumped at parts it was a good story.  

Edited August 27, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Diana Berry]

The ending credits have a quick flash of scenes--guess of Anna in the psych ward.  It flashes right after the Led Zep song ends fyi.

[ferjy]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I know a lot of people are going to complain about the slow slow bjtn and sudden ending but I really liked it.  Of course the killer turns out to be Amna.  No one gets out of that family alive.  Not really.  Agora is going to spend a good portion of her life in prison but more importantly her reputation ruined. Camille is going to have to live with the truth about her family.  And Amna is seriously fucked up.

i liked the ending even though it jumped at Padres it was a good story.  

I like a slow burn too, but usually there's character development along the way. There was virtually none here, very little that they didn't reveal in the first episode.  They went for artsy then the big shock reveal. Yes, shocking because it didn't lead there!

4 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

The ending credits have a quick flash of scenes--guess of Anna in the psych ward.  It flashes right after the Led Zep song ends fyi.

Yes, the credits scenes are part of the big reveal. Still unsatisfying.

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy
clarification

[Xantar]

2 minutes ago, HollyG said:

Ok, so they are just going to leave it like that? 

Yep. And I’m watching the after-episode special where the cast and crew are congratulating themselves on how they earned the ending and had a great cut to black. Ugh.

This was a series where everybody was a terrific actor, the cinematography was fantastic, and most of the individual moments worked really well, but man the overall plot just suuuuuuucked. The actual murder mystery was a non-entity because it was so clear that Adora was up to no good and that Amma was a killer psychopath. I called it in my post in the previous thread, I believe. And at the same time, we got no explanation for either of those revelations. 

You could argue that the point of the series was about atmosphere and how past trauma haunts Camille, but they screwed that up too. For one thing, they stretched everything out way too long. I can only have so many shots of Camilla driving while looking pensively before I want to yell, “I get it! She’s messed up! Can we look at something else now?” And meanwhile, her actual background is just way too much. Camille’s sister died, she was gang-raped, she was put into a psychiatric hospital for self-harming behavior, her roommate in the facility committed suicide, and her mother never loved her. As I said before, you could have made a perfectly compelling story by just picking two of those things and jettisoning the rest.

I really have to wonder if it was a good idea to have Gillian Flynn adapting her own novel because she doesn’t seem to have done any editing. In all honesty, this would have been just fine as a 2-hour movie. It worked for Gone Girl, didn’t it?

So much wasted potential. I was on board for the first two episodes, but I started to get really concerned around episode 4 and outright disliking the show by episode 6. This ending didn’t address any of my concerns. It actually solidified my feeling that everybody involved was too much in love with their product to do any editing.

[HollyG]

4 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

The ending credits have a quick flash of scenes--guess of Anna in the psych ward.  It flashes right after the Led Zep song ends fyi.

Is that where she was... the psych ward? I thought the girl she was attacking was her new friend she made living with Camille. I had a sinking feeling when her mom came looking for her. Or did I completely miss something?

2 minutes ago, Xantar said:

Yep. And I’m watching the after-episode special where the cast and crew are congratulating themselves on how they earned the ending and had a great cut to black. Ugh.

 

Where is the after episode special?

[Penman61]

Hi, I'm Camille. I just confirmed my Mom poisoned my sister to death and is poisoning my other sister now.

SO WHY THE FUCK AM I DRINKING HER MILK AND EATING HER FOOD?!?

Edited August 27, 2018 by Penman61

[ferjy]

4 minutes ago, Xantar said:

Yep. And I’m watching the after-episode special where the cast and crew are congratulating themselves on how they earned the ending and had a great cut to black. Ugh.

This was a series where everybody was a terrific actor, the cinematography was fantastic, and most of the individual moments worked really well, but man the overall plot just suuuuuuucked. The actual murder mystery was a non-entity because it was so clear that Adora was up to no good and that Amma was a killer psychopath. I called it in my post in the previous thread, I believe. And at the same time, we got no explanation for either of those revelations. 

You could argue that the point of the series was about atmosphere and how past trauma haunts Camille, but they screwed that up too. For one thing, they stretched everything out way too long. I can only have so many shots of Camilla driving while looking pensively before I want to yell, “I get it! She’s messed up! Can we look at something else now?” And meanwhile, her actual background is just way too much. Camille’s sister died, she was gang-raped, she was put into a psychiatric hospital for self-harming behavior, her roommate in the facility committed suicide, and her mother never loved her. As I said before, you could have made a perfectly compelling story by just picking two of those things and jettisoning the rest.

I really have to wonder if it was a good idea to have Gillian Flynn adapting her own novel because she doesn’t seem to have done any editing. In all honesty, this would have been just fine as a 2-hour movie. It worked for Gone Girl, didn’t it?

So much wasted potential. I was on board for the first two episodes, but I started to get really concerned around episode 4 and outright disliking the show by episode 6. This ending didn’t address any of my concerns. It actually solidified my feeling that everybody involved was too much in love with their product to do any editing.

But it wasn't. It's a guess at best because nothing much lead us to that.  It could have been anybody. The writer just happened to pick Amma at the end, in this adaption at least.

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy

[tomsmom]

One of the credits scenes is of Natalie on the floor by John’s bed (hence the blood stain)

[Penman61]

1 minute ago, tomsmom said:

One of the credits scenes is of Natalie on the floor by John’s bed (hence the blood stain)

Good catch.  So did Amma murder Natalie there?  Did Ashley know/help?

[Xantar]

7 minutes ago, ferjy said:

But it wasn't. It's a guess at best because nothing much lead us to that.  It could have been anybody. The writer just happened to pick Amma at the end, in this adaption at least.

You’re right that they didn’t give us a lot of clues or indications that Amma was the killer nor even any hint of her motive. However since the show presented zero other suspects, she was the obvious choice. 

[jeansheridan]

7 minutes ago, ferjy said:

But it wasn't. It's a guess at best because nothing much lead us to that.  It could have been anybody. The writer just happened to pick Amma at the end, in this adaption at least.

She admitted as such in one of the one minutes specials about the adaptation. The book does explain things. Get it from the library and read the epilogue. It will explain the murders. But please get it from a library or a friend. Don't buy it. Flynn doesn't deserve your money.

[ferjy]

10 minutes ago, HollyG said:

Is that where she was... the psych ward? I thought the girl she was attacking was her new friend she made living with Camille. I had a sinking feeling when her mom came looking for her. Or did I completely miss something?

That's what I saw too. The last scene is Amma strangling her new friend at the fence. I didn't see a psych ward anywhere.

[alicia]

I thought there were certainly some hints throughout the series that Amma was involved. When she said she could get her friends to do anything she wanted, I immediately suspected her. The sneaking around at the pig farm. The sort of bullying of she did of Camille -- putting the lollipop in her hair, getting her to take drugs, the menacing tone that surrounded her and her roller skating friends from the very first time we saw them. It wasn't completely out of left field.

The Munchausen's stuff with Adora seemed more like a last-minute addition than the Amma twist. They never showed us any hint of what caused Marian's death until episode 7.

Edited August 27, 2018 by alicia

[ferjy]

1 minute ago, Xantar said:

You’re right that they didn’t give us a lot of clues or indications that Amma was the killer nor even any hint of her motive. However since the show presented zero other suspects, she was the obvious choice. 

I disagree. Adora, Ashley and Alan were as likely a suspect as Amma was.

[Penman61]

41 minutes ago, Xantar said:

Yep. And I’m watching the after-episode special where the cast and crew are congratulating themselves on how they earned the ending and had a great cut to black. Ugh.

Yeah, that was a bit much.  

28 minutes ago, ferjy said:

That's what I saw too. The last scene is Amma strangling her new friend at the fence. I didn't see a psych ward anywhere.

I thought the final shot of Amma in that mid-credit sequence (not the end credit shot of her as the White Goddess or whatever) was of her behind institutional grating.  It was definitely not a fence.  ETA:  Just rewatched, and it might be a fence!  Sorry. :(

Edited August 27, 2018 by Penman61

[tomsmom]

1 minute ago, ferjy said:

That's what I saw too. The last scene is Amma strangling her new friend at the fence. I didn't see a psych ward anywhere.

I think scenes were cut with Amma being locked up because you see the girls being killed but you also see women in white coats which I’m assuming are doctors in the psych ward. 

[Xantar]

2 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I disagree. Adora, Ashley and Alan were as likely a suspect as Amma was.

We can agree to disagree, but it was always clear to me that Adora didn’t kill the two girls because she’s not the type to rip out teeth. Meanwhile, Alan is way too passive to strangle anyone to death. Amma was really the only suspect to me.

[jeansheridan]

I am impressed you all aren't furious. I did read the book and this ending was wretched. It was a horror movie ending and not a character study ending or a mystery ending. And I think the writer and producers should be punished and not get any awards.  And I kind of hope Amy Adams doesn't now either. I find this sort of ending completely insulting. I don't need to be spoon fed all the details, but showing the last three murders in the end credits was lazy. I get that the writer and director are too arty to have a straight ending, but this ...oh boy. My hope is other film-makers avoid this sort of ending. Just the worst. I cannot wait to badmouth this entire series. I am feeling that spiteful.

Edited August 27, 2018 by jeansheridan

[ferjy]

3 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I thought the final shot of Amma in that mid-credit sequence (not the end credit shot of her as the White Goddess or whatever) was of her behind institutional grating.  It was definitely not a fence.

It's a chain link fence, the same as the one shown when they were strangling the first girl. In the scene just before the White Goddess (you're right, second to last scene), it shows the new friend being strangled then pans to Amma still gritting her teeth.

[tomsmom]

8 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Good catch.  So did Amma murder Natalie there?  Did Ashley know/help?

Yep but I think her two roller skating friends were her accomplices

[thesupremediva1]

I can only fully appreciate and understand the ending because I've read the source material multiple times and all motivations were neatly explained. 

I want to see Camille's full reaction to Amma being a full-on psycho killer who, in my opinion, is even worse than Adora.

I want to see her bitch friends get arrested and watch as they all squeal on each other to save their own skin.

I want to see Adora and Allen's reaction to Amma's crimes. I want to see if Amma confesses or forces a trial.

I want to see Vickery have to release John Keene with full apologies.

I want to see John Keene take the stand and confront that nasty bitch Amma and her evil girl squad. They chanted baby killer at him and threw him out of parties, and meanwhile the Southern Mansons killed his sister. I'd like to see him get tossed out of the court room for trying to wring their necks.

I want to see Bob Nash's reaction to the truth. Maybe he and John Keene sit together in court.

I want to know how Natalie's blood got under Ashley's bed. Did Amma put it there a few eps ago when she was lying by the pool and taunting John?

I want to see Amma explain her motives for killing those girls.

I want to see Jackie's courtroom outfits and her blasé expressions during the trial as she realizes that one Crellin girl wasn't worth saving.

What I didn't want to see was a montage of those girls being killed. Thanks for the gore but all it gave us was proof Amma's roller-skating gal pals were accomplices. And then the show was over. No joy.

I watched a lot of driving montages and 45-minute episodes. I was excited this would be a series because I thought we'd have time to explore the aftermath. I didn't realize they'd cram it all into 10 minutes. Time wasn't used well here.

Taylor John Smith was a revelation these last two eps. Eliza Scanlen is a stunner. 

There was SO MUCH I loved and appreciated about this show. I wish we'd had another whole episode to create an ending that had an impact and not mere shock value. Because with the level of detail provided, I don't think this series will hold up for rewatch.

[BingeyKohan]

1 minute ago, ferjy said:

It's a chain link fence, the same as the one shown when they were strangling the first girl. In the scene just before the White Goddess (you're right, second to last scene), it shows the new friend being strangled then pans to Amma still gritting her teeth.

At first I thought it was the entryway to the apartments where they’d been roller skating but that’d be too highly trafficked probably. I’m betting the chain link fencing was at this closed pool in the park they kept referring to, Amma took advantage of it being closed. (I also think it was to show the viewer it was an urban setting, to differentiate it from the other two murders.)

Did anyone else see a doll propped in the window of the room where Camille found the teeth? The same way Natalie had been propped in that window in the alley?

[jeansheridan]

3 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Taylor John Smith

Agreed. He was great in his one scene. So good I think he shook Richard's belief in the case. And that scene was well-written. He's smart and thinking on his feet. He doesn't assume he understands Ashley's motivations but has empathy for her. I look forward to his future work.

[SoWindsor]

Did Adora poison the food or was Camille faking being sick so that Adora would focus on her and not Amma? I’m thinking the latter.

The show did a great job of keeping the tension going in St Louis when all seemed well. I definitely knew something else was coming with Amma.

What was the significance of Camille noticing how Ammas new friend was eating — didn’t really get that. But it definitely seemed like Amma had killed the new friend.

[jeansheridan]

5 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

There was SO MUCH I loved and appreciated about this show. I wish we'd had another whole episode to create an ending that had an impact and not mere shock value. Because with the level of detail provided, I don't think this series will hold up for rewatch.

Everything you said! Everything.

[ferjy]

16 minutes ago, alicia said:

I through there were certainly some hints throughout the series that Amma was involved. When she said she could get her friends to do anything she wanted, I immediately suspected her. The sneaking around at the pig farm. The sort of bullying of she did of Camille -- putting the lollipop in her hair, getting her to take drugs, the menacing tone that surrounded her and her roller skating friends from the very first time we saw them. It wasn't completely out of left field.

The Munchausen's stuff with Adora seemed more like a last-minute addition than the Amma twist. They never showed us any hint of what caused Marian's death until episode 7.

I thought there were several of clues to the Munchausen by Proxy . I can't remember them all now, but a couple were Adora closing the door to Marian's room and not letting Camille in while she "tended" to Marian; Adora's demeanor, most mother's would be more distraught with such a sickly child. I'll have to try recall the rest, but they hit me as I was watching, pretty early on.

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy

[Xantar]

1 minute ago, SoWindsor said:

 

What was the significance of Camille noticing how Ammas new friend was eating — didn’t really get that. But it definitely seemed like Amma had killed the new friend.

There was a shot where it looked like Amma’s new friend had some words written on her hand, so that’s what Camille was reacting to. Whether or not those words were actually there is anybody’s guess.

I actually thought they were pretty heavy-handed with foreshadowing Amma killing her new friend. There was a shot of the two of them rollerskating and at one point Amma rolls into a loop of string and pantomimes getting strangled.

[ferjy]

14 minutes ago, Xantar said:

We can agree to disagree, but it was always clear to me that Adora didn’t kill the two girls because she’s not the type to rip out teeth. Meanwhile, Alan is way too passive to strangle anyone to death. Amma was really the only suspect to me.

We may have to. lol As for Adora, I don't think she was as frail as she let on, it was all for attention, so I certainly could see her doing it (behind closed doors, of course, so as not to tarnish her image). Although I thought it was more likely that Alan was in on it with her, doing her dirty work. We saw enough clues to that effect.

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy

[HollyG]

Another question... I will look for the book at a later date, but.... Did Amma kill the girls alone or did the other roller girls help? And was there a motive?

[tomsmom]

3 minutes ago, SoWindsor said:

Did Adora poison the food or was Camille faking being sick so that Adora would focus on her and not Amma? I’m thinking the latter.

The show did a great job of keeping the tension going in St Louis when all seemed well. I definitely knew something else was coming with Amma.

What was the significance of Camille noticing how Ammas new friend was eating — didn’t really get that. But it definitely seemed like Amma had killed the new friend.

Still confused as to why Camille would LET Adora poison her??? If she was trying to spare Amma wouldn’t it been easier to excuse yourself and call Richard to help get her out of there.

[Beezella]

Did everyone see that the ivory floor in the doll house was made from TEETH?

Edited August 27, 2018 by Beezella
spelling error

[Penman61]

19 minutes ago, ferjy said:

It's a chain link fence, the same as the one shown when they were strangling the first girl. In the scene just before the White Goddess (you're right, second to last scene), it shows the new friend being strangled then pans to Amma still gritting her teeth.

Screengrab (not a chain link fence, but institutional grating, imho, but it shifts focus quick, so...could be?)

Edited August 27, 2018 by Penman61

[jeansheridan]

2 minutes ago, tomsmom said:

Still confused as to why Camille would LET Adora poison her??? If she was trying to spare Amma wouldn’t it been easier to excuse yourself and call Richard to help get her out of there.

In the book (can we mention the book now?) Spoiler tags if not.

Spoiler

In the book it's her stupid way of gathering evidence against her mother. All the poison in her system is evidence and she can testify that Adora gave it to her. The show makes it look more sacrificial. 

[ferjy]

19 minutes ago, tomsmom said:

I think scenes were cut with Amma being locked up because you see the girls being killed but you also see women in white coats which I’m assuming are doctors in the psych ward. 

Were the women in white coats in those end credit bits? I missed that completely.

[PepSinger]

I'll just quickly interject that my mother and I loved Gone Girl (the movie); however, our only critique was the ending. Once I read the novel Gone Girl, it explained why Nick and Amy stayed together so much better. This is now the second time -- with the Sharp Objects finale -- where I feel as though what's on screen isn't satisfying enough, and the book does the ending justice. My question is, why do people who adapt Gillian's novels do this?? It's frustrating. They need to leave time for the end.

[tomsmom]

3 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Were the women in white coats in those end credit bits? I missed that completely.

Yes.

[jeansheridan]

6 minutes ago, HollyG said:

Another question... I will look for the book at a later date, but.... Did Amma kill the girls alone or did the other roller girls help? And was there a motive?

Also putting in spoilers just in case book talk is not allowed yet:

Spoiler

The roller girls helped her. Amma was jealous of the girls for getting Adora's attention and her friends were just idiots who went along with the murders. One girl is beginning to crack in the book (and it was a major irritation to me because I cannot imagine three girls keeping a secret for six months). As for the teeth, Amma just wanted them for her dollhouse. Not big deal. AND turns out pulling a kid's tooth doesn't require much strength at all so Richard's hypothesis was wrong. See! She answers all of this in like 10 pages)

[ferjy]

4 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Screengrab:

 

 

 

 

Are you sure that's institutional grating? I'm no expert on fence material. lol But the scene before that is her new friend being strangled. If Amma is in an institution in that shot, why is she gritting her teeth (as if she just strangled someone)?

[Penman61]

5 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Also putting in spoilers just in case book talk is not allowed yet:

  Hide contents

The roller girls helped her. Amma was jealous of the girls for getting Adora's attention and her friends were just idiots who went along with the murders. One girl is beginning to crack in the book (and it was a major irritation to me because I cannot imagine three girls keeping a secret for six months). As for the teeth, Amma just wanted them for her dollhouse. Not big deal. AND turns out pulling a kid's tooth doesn't require much strength at all so Richard's hypothesis was wrong. See! She answers all of this in like 10 pages)

My bolded part really pisses me off now.  The show took the time to show Richard getting a PIG'S HEAD and using pliers to remove teeth from said pig's head, and then he later humblebrags about it to Camille as way of confirming how much strength it would take to remove human teeth.  I mean, there's misdirection and there's outright disrespecting the viewer.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Penman61

[PepSinger]

I think I figured it out about 10-15 mins into this episode. I will say that when I re-watched the series this afternoon, during the episode where Richard pulls out the pig's teeth, I noticed that it didn't look nearly as difficult as I thought it did. Hell, I even thought to myself that *I* could do it. That's what immediately made me think a woman could do it. Not to mention when you think about the ages the girls were killed, they would still have some baby teeth, and I remember the coroner mentioning something about it being easier to pull those kinds of teeth!

Edited August 27, 2018 by PepSinger

[Penman61]

6 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Are you sure that's institutional grating? I'm no expert on fence material. lol But the scene before that is her new friend being strangled. If Amma is in an institution in that shot, why is she gritting her teeth (as if she just strangled someone)?

I watched the scene again and freeze-framed, and I think you're right now.  The focus blurs the fencing so it just looks like grating (at least it did to me), but when it pops into focus, it's a fence.  I think you're right. :)

Edited August 27, 2018 by Penman61