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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

Door County Cherry

By Door County Cherry
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kes0704

kes0704

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

If CD doesn't have another show anymore, it seems obvious Tommy will return, imo, though he's so bland I never understood fandom's obsession with him. That said, he doesn't need to be E2 Tommy. He could be E1 Tommy resurrected. Even the set-up is there from when Malcolm really didn't want Thea put in the lazarus pit - maybe he did it to Tommy and it went wrong. IDK.

I think bringing him back for the last 10 episodes is kinda pointless tbh. Some characters should just stay dead.

This is me. I really do not understand the Tommy obsession in fandom. He was a one season character that served his purpose in Oliver choosing to approach his mission in another way. 

Bringing him back as resurrected, post-Lazarus Pit Tommy would’ve had an impact on S3 or early S4 Oliver. But S7 Oliver is a different man who is at a different point in his life now. S7 Oliver has a wife and child and a baby on the way.

Bringing Tommy back for 10 episodes seems pointless when we’ll know that Oliver’s wife and baby daughter are hidden away in a cabin in the woods. At this point in the show, I don’t really expect the writers to take any time to explain why dealing with Tommy would take priority over his family. 

I will side eye any shock or surprise on Oliver’s part at seeing a version of Tommy again. He’s popped up in one form or another so often it should just be a routine event now. 

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

Anyone who actually thinks she's dead deserves the crushing disappointment they'll feel when they find out she isn't. 

Chaser
Chaser

“Felicity my love, let’s make a baby. I want to expand our family.” ”Oh Oliver...” ”That way a piece of me will always be with you.” ..........”What the Fuck did you do?”

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6 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

This is me. I really do not understand the Tommy obsession in fandom. He was a one season character that served his purpose in Oliver choosing to approach his mission in another way. 

Bringing him back as resurrected, post-Lazarus Pit Tommy would’ve had an impact on S3 or early S4 Oliver. But S7 Oliver is a different man who is at a different point in his life now. S7 Oliver has a wife and child and a baby on the way.

Bringing Tommy back for 10 episodes seems pointless when we’ll know that Oliver’s wife and baby daughter are hidden away in a cabin in the woods. At this point in the show, I don’t really expect the writers to take any time to explain why dealing with Tommy would take priority over his family. 

I will side eye any shock or surprise on Oliver’s part at seeing a version of Tommy again. He’s popped up in one form or another so often it should just be a routine event now. 

Yeah, Oliver's reason for not being with his wife and baby (and son) should be because he has unfinished business saving the city or fixing whatever mess that means Felicity has to be in hiding. I assumed/guessed that S8 would be Oliver doing everything possible so Felicity and little Mia could come home to Star City eventually (but then Crisis happens and well, it doesn't work out). Evil Tommy should not be a priority at this stage.

And I'm honestly so sick of these evil characters popping up and they get some lame redemption story. It's boring at this point. 😴

If Tommy is back, let him stay evil and be done with it. 

JamieLynn832002

JamieLynn832002

(edited)
7 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Or it leads to them deciding "Fuck this ungrateful city, we're not going through this shit again" and leaving it to rot while they go raise their baby somewhere else.

I'm reasonably certain that this isn't what the show wants us to be rooting for but yeah, this. Star City is an ungrateful hellhole that always blames Oliver in one way or another for its problems, it doesn't deserve to be saved at this point and the fact Felicity and their children are still trying to save it 20 years later is infuriating. I think that's what would actually piss me off most if Felicity were to die in the FFs because even if it was directly to save William and Mia it would still be because she wanted to save Star City and Star City isn't worth it...at all.

I liked Tommy but I don't think there's anyway to satisfactorily bring him back at this point. As @kes0704 says it simply wouldn't make sense for Oliver to concentrate on Tommy while abandoning his wife and newborn (of course, I also feel like this is true about pretty much anything beyond Oliver forcibly spending S8 with The Monitor or as The Monitor so...) The only way I can see it working is if Tommy is part of what Oliver is hiding his family from and I feel like it would be hard to play that out in only a few episodes. I also think the show has gone to the "someone Oliver trusts/loves secretly sucks" well too many times already and don't really want to see it again.

Edited by JamieLynn832002
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Mary0360

Mary0360

I’m glad I’m not the only one who doesn’t get what’s so great about Tommy. In season one Oliver and Diggle has a far more realistic and deep friendship then Oliver and Tommy and as far as acting goes I don’t think Colin is anything special.

Also I’m sick of Arrow bringing people back from the dead. 🤷‍♀️

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lemotomato

lemotomato

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

If CD doesn't have another show anymore, it seems obvious Tommy will return, imo, though he's so bland I never understood fandom's obsession with him. That said, he doesn't need to be E2 Tommy. He could be E1 Tommy resurrected. Even the set-up is there from when Malcolm really didn't want Thea put in the lazarus pit - maybe he did it to Tommy and it went wrong? IDK.

I think bringing him back for the last 10 episodes is kinda pointless tbh. Some characters should just stay dead.

I wouldn't be surprised if the show brought CD back for an appearance or two like it has in almost every season he got written off, but just because he's leaving Chicago Med doesn't mean he's going to be back for all 10 episodes.

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

9 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Or it leads to them deciding "Fuck this ungrateful city, we're not going through this shit again" and leaving it to rot while they go raise their baby somewhere else.

In one of my favorite fanfics from season 3, Felicity gets angry that Star City isn't mourning Oliver after he sacrificed himself for the city by dying at Ras' hands, and she develops a desire to litter.  I understand the urge.

If they are going to bring back Tommy, one of the two characters that have stayed dead, I want them to bring back Moira, too.

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I wouldn't be surprised if the Ninth Circle is responsible for the police warrant being served on Felicity as a way to get their hands on her and her Archer program.

I wonder if 722's title - if it is indeed "You Have Saved This City," could refer to Felicity, not Oliver. For example, maybe Oliver or a Team Arrow member is trying to convince Felicity to go into hiding, but she's resistant and wants to stay in Star City. Or maybe it's relevant to the flashforwards, where Mia or William tell her, "You have saved this city many times, now it's our turn." 

(And yes, I'm thinking of that scene in the movie Serenity where River says to her injured brother: "You take care of me, Simon. You've always taken care of me. My turn.")

Edited by tv echo
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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

I liked Tommy and I'm glad CD comes back occasionally but I don't want him back for 10 eps of S8, though I wouldn't be surprised at all if he does pop up for one or two. 

I thought Tommy's role in S1 was to show how they really weren't best friends anymore, they'd grown apart in the 5 years (obviously). Oliver put on the playboy front with him and Tommy hated Oliver the murderer/vigilante etc. Then the Laurel issue.... If he'd stayed on the show that would have lead to him taking up his father's mantle rather than Malcolm surviving being stabbed through the heart. He could have done it after TommyX.

I do like him and would rather see him and Oliver than with Dinah or Other Dinah but then that probably pushes Dig out and he's been Oliver's brother and Yoda since the beginning.

I'm not really that big a fan of fan fiction Tommy, he often comes off as a bit too perfect, mature and can do no wrong to Oliver's fuck up personality to me.

CD has been between series before and hasn't been brought back full time or for more than one episode so it's not necessarily guaranteed here.

Edited by Featherhat
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kickingnames

kickingnames

My emotional rollercoaster just now:

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

I wonder if 722's title - if it is indeed "You Have Saved This City," could refer to Felicity, not Oliver. For example, maybe Oliver or a Team Arrow member is trying to convince Felicity to go into hiding, but she's resistant and wants to stay in Star City. Or maybe it's relevant to the flashforwards, where Mia or William tell her, "You have saved this city many times, now it's our turn." 

👍👍😍

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(And yes, I'm thinking of that scene in the movie Serenity where River says to her injured brother: "You take care of me, Simon. You've always taken care of me. My turn.")

😭😭😭

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

It would be interesting if both KC and CD were series regulars again in S8, considering both their original characters are dead. But what if E2 Laurel returns to Earth-1 and brings E2 Tommy with her?  Maybe E2 Tommy is now Earth-2's Green Arrow, because E2 Robert Queen decided to retire from wearing the hood? (IIRC, Robert Queen is currently Green Arrow on Earth-2.)

It would certainly be consistent with SA's tweet: "It’s been one hell of a run. I promise we’ll finish the way we started." (Mar. 6, 2019 SA instagram post, page 750 of Social Media thread)

Edited by tv echo
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

It would be interesting if both KC and CD were series regulars again in S8, considering both their original characters are dead. But what if E2 Laurel returns to Earth-1 and brings E2 Tommy with her?  Maybe E2 Tommy is now Earth-2's Green Arrow, because E2 Robert Queen decided to retire from wearing the hood? (IIRC, Robert Queen is currently Green Arrow on Earth-2.)

It would certainly be consistent with SA's tweet: "It’s been one hell of a run. I promise we’ll finish the way we started." (Mar. 6, 2019 SA instagram post, page 750 of Social Media thread)

If it finishes the way it started it will be with me only watching out of a feeling of obligation.  

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Featherhat

Featherhat

51 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

If it finishes the way it started it will be with me only watching out of a feeling of obligation.  

I hope and assumed at the time he just meant "awesome" rather than Oliver Laurel and Tommy since that's not a dynamic SA ever really got on with, unlike OTA.

I suppose it could be Mia and William vowing to save the city for their parents or Old Oliver is alive in the FFs to help or something.

I really can't see S8 being E2LL and Tommy centric. But I bet Dinah and Rene have big parts.

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Featherhat

Featherhat

16 hours ago, way2interested said:

If that's what SA meant, then he and Beth are super forward thinking, knowing bts info about another show from another company almost 2 months in advance from the general public XD

Heh. I guess they might take advantage of it but I can't see it being as a regular role. Maybe like the Slades eps from S6 if anything. CD would have known a while ago, although all this is entirely speculation.

"You have saved this city" Felicity dies heroically in the FFs? 

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Just more confirmation that TW's comment was a joke...

Will Tom Welling Appear in Season 8 of “Arrow”?
April 22, 2019
https://www.supermanhomepage.com/will-tom-welling-appear-in-season-8-of-arrow/

Quote

You may have seen reports circulating around the internet over the past week that Tom Welling is rumored to be appearing in the eighth and final season of “Arrow” on The CW. During a panel held on Saturday, April 13 at Armageddon Expo in New Zealand, Welling is reported to have said, “I will be on Arrow next season.”

The claim was posted on Twitter, and media sites all over the internet posted the news on face value. The Superman Homepage contacted the organisers of Armageddon Expo to find out what was really said. When we asked if Tom Welling had indeed told those in attendance that he would be appearing on Arrow during his panel, we were told that Welling said it in jest, and was not serious. “He was joking,” a representative of Armageddon Expo told us.

ETA: Yes, I was joking with the "Baby Sara" comment.

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
29 minutes ago, way2interested said:

How so?

The following words I've bolded concern me:

Quote

SEASON FINALE (May 13): Cast member Juliana Harkavy told TVLine that the series’ penultimate closer — aka Emily Bett Rickards’ final episode — is “very exciting, and really emotional,” while Schwartz said, “Almost everyone who read it was in tears.” The EP also described the finale as “insane” and “huge” “in terms of action, in terms of characters that might be coming back, and in terms of the ending.” In fact, it is two finales-in-one. The flash-forward characters “have their own finale, which will be pretty large,” all adding up to an episode that is “extremely unique. It definitely propels you into Season 8.”

I doubt the "tears" were tears of joy, but more likely tears of sadness. I'm also concerned that they'll bring back Curtis to replace Felicity in order to add a lighter touch in the Arrow Bunker. We already know that E2 Laurel is returning for the finale, so that might mean an explanation for her sticking around on Earth-1 for S8. And I'm also concerned that the flashforward finale will include future Felicity's death. I know a lot of people are saying that they won't kill off Felicity, but I don't trust Beth any more than I trusted MG. I find her use of the word "unique" interesting.

Edited by tv echo
Velocity23

Velocity23

(edited)
9 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I guess with the "everyone in tears" absolutely insane etc doesn't indicate a happy ending for Felicity 2040 or at least not one where she's alive but off screen. It backs the theory she heroically sacrices herself for her children/to "save" Craphole City.

I dont think it says that at all. The way the filming of the finale took place its quite obvious that the set up for s8 is the kids getting together to save their parents. We know Colton, JH and RG all wrapped up on Monday. The kids were filming Thursday and Friday on their own with none of the old members of team Arrow that we know off. My guess is they get kidnapped, Diggle probably emerges as the person that is going to help the baby team arrow.

I find it cute that people actually think there is going to be a team arrow in the present timeline. IMO you gonna see the team getting the tattoes because they are parting ways for the moment in s7 finale. Curtis and BS not having them shows they are not part of it. 

Edited by Velocity23
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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)
18 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I doubt the "tears" were tears of joy, but more likely tears of sadness.

JH clarified in another quote that it was because of tears of joy, because they liked the episode and it was a time the whole cast (since EK and KC came back and EBR is leaving) actually got to be together for a scene possibly for the last time.

ETA: found the quote "We were crying the entire shoot. Not just because it’s sad, but because we know that the end is coming up and this is our last full-season finale…. It was just kind of surreal. It’s a really incredible script — everybody really put their all into it — and there is so much action. It’s very exciting, and really emotional.” So not that necessarily it was joy joy, but more of crying because of the experience more than saying the finale is sad.

18 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I'm also concerned that they'll bring back Curtis to replace Felicity in order to add a lighter touch in the Arrow Bunker

I don't think so. EK left. An appearance in the finale (which is one of the things Beth was referring to) is one thing, coming back is a whole other ordeal. I would sooner believe that they would have Alena """"replace"""" Felicity than Curtis.

18 minutes ago, tv echo said:

And I'm also concerned that the flashforward finale will include future Felicity's death. I know a lot of people are saying that they won't kill off Felicity, but I don't trust Beth any more than I trusted MG. I find her use of the word "unique" interesting.

It could be a concern, but I don't think her quotes indicated it either way. She would say all of this stuff if Felicity didn't get killed off anyway. Heck, in 523, literally none of the main characters died ("cliffhanger" notwithstanding, they never were going to kill any of the leads and most of the fans knew it), and they still used descriptions very much like the ones Beth used.

Edited by way2interested
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JamieLynn832002

JamieLynn832002

I still don't actually believe it will happen (and if it did it would probably be Eden Corps/Galaxy One) but the sudden reintroduction of Deathstroke via JJ compels me to say, if Future Felicity sacrfices herself to save William, Mia or Connor from JJ/Deathstroke, I will actually need Barry Allen's Sara Diggle-erasing head on a platter.

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Trisha

Trisha

I’m guessing this is more of a case of DR trying to put a nice spin on things and/or needing better media training, but the not canon thing confuses me. And implying that Felicity or OTA was holding them back from storytelling is a bad look.

https://www.tvinsider.com/770712/arrow-season-7-episode-19-spartan-digg-father/

Quote

What about the ongoing saga of Original Team Arrow losing one of the sides of the triangle?

Yeah, we're losing the T from our OTA. Obviously, we all feel how we feel about it... Emily Bett's been fantastic. I remember making a comment years ago, of me and Stephen [Amell, Oliver] brooding in the foundry until Felicity showed up and that's just part of what Emily brings. But again, what I point to is being able to tell these big, big stories without being limited to anything that we had previously, that includes OTA. As wonderful as that is, you can have 10 episodes here where you can say and do whatever you want...canon and not canon. So I think as sad as we are, and she will be missed, I think it also gives us an opportunity to go some place we've never gone before.

lemotomato

lemotomato

4 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I’m guessing this is more of a case of DR trying to put a nice spin on things and/or needing better media training, but the not canon thing confuses me. And implying that Felicity or OTA was holding them back from storytelling is a bad look.

Yeah, I don't like the way his answer sounds either. It's a clumsier version of his usual "It's good to try new things/directions/interactions" response that he trots out when he's asked "Why don't we get more OTA or Felicity/Diggle or Oliver/Diggle scenes?"

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

10 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I’m guessing this is more of a case of DR trying to put a nice spin on things and/or needing better media training, but the not canon thing confuses me. And implying that Felicity or OTA was holding them back from storytelling is a bad look.

https://www.tvinsider.com/770712/arrow-season-7-episode-19-spartan-digg-father/

It's an especially weird take because OTA hasn't been an actual thing in practice apart from *maybe* an episode a season in five years, LOL.  

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And confuses me.

Same.

They've had various people come onto the team, they've had people leave it. They've operated as sub teams, they've had Diggle be the leader, they've had no team! People have worked individually, like...what specific writing avenues are available to them now that weren't available before? Unless there's just not going to be an alliance between anyone anymore and they all go their separate ways. And they didn't need Felicity to go away for that to happen. 

I get that he's trying to sell something new for a measly 10 episodes that people may not totally be on board with. Moving an audience's cheese after 7 years is not really the best way to go out, but he should figure out a better way to express himself on that front. 

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kes0704

kes0704

(edited)

If DR is trying to sell me on watching S8 then he failed. It really does sound like he’s implying that Felicity leaving means that the show is no longer being held back from telling big stories. 

OTA hasn’t been much of anything for several seasons now. Felicity being part of the show didn’t stop them from introducing Dinah, Rene & Curtis and spending time on stories for them. Felicity being present also wouldn’t stop them from exploring E90 John Diggle as Green Lantern. 

They only have 10 episodes in S8, one of those will be the crossover and one will have to wrap up the series as the finale. That leaves 8 episodes so how big can the big, big stories be in the episodes that are left? 

At this stage I don’t think I’m going to regret not watching whatever they do for S8.

Edited by kes0704
JamieLynn832002

JamieLynn832002

I'm really beginning to lean into the idea that S8 will be nothing like the Arrow we know. The Monitor showing up in the finale, coupled with DR's weird, not really in character, sort of nonsense answers makes me think S8 will be very different and DR is hampered by not really being able to say that (I know DR never seems to worry overly much about spoilers but I'm assuming he's forced to exercise some discretion in official interviews.) Either way, I'm still not sure if I'm here for it.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

I am more and more convinced,  that s7 is the end of team Arrow. And s8 at least for Oliver will be about honoring his deal with the Monitor and we get to see heroes from other worlds. Probably going to add Earth 90 Flash and GL in the form of John Diggle to his traveling buddies. The others will have their SL wrapped up. It really going to work just to set up the crossover. And the rest of episodes they quickly going to wrap up the big bad. 

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