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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

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56 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I was kind of joking but you never know. Barry and Iris had an unnecessarily close "foster sibling" connection that Joe chose to highlight at the wedding. ūüėČ

I think it will be mainly Connor vs JJ for other issues though, but I am expecting some of those to be highly silly and petty.

Hopefully they just do Connor really struggling with his brothers Evil ways and Have Mia just be there for him, be his rock and they get back together or finally hook up. And I'd rather JJ be full Evil and no Mia torn between brothers cause I HATE with a fiery passion Love Triangles especially the ones with Siblings fighting over a Woman/Man . 

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8 hours ago, jay741982 said:

It's just so stupid and Lazy. We already had this bullshit with Andy being an evil POS abandoning Carly and their son and basically driving Dig to kill him. God forbid we have something different. 

I understand your frustration but Arrow is Arrow and it will do what it does best. 

Arrow is like cheap jewelry from a mall chain. Flimsy, poor quality and not particularly unique but enjoyable in it's own way. You can't exactly expect Van Cleef and Arpels quality. 

That's my take anyway. I've been watching super cheap productions that I don't quibble over and I'm at the point where I feel like that about Arrow. 

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Maybe the twist will be that that whole kill Connor thing was a misunderstanding and JJ is a grey character, not evil.  I mean at this point Slade and Deathstroke aren't the enemy.  And Connor joined his brother's gang in the past which you'd like to think he wouldn't have done if that org was just all bad.

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From KM's open letter published in TV Guide yesterday - it certainly sounds like she's expecting more Mia in the future,,,
https://www.tvguide.com/news/shadowhunters-kat-mcnamara-tv-yearbook/ 

Quote

... Beth and the writers at Arrow HQ have gone above and beyond in crafting Mia's story. They have created a woman who is complex, dark, troubled, and badass, yet who still manages to have a sense of humor and a heart of gold, albeit one a bit tarnished by the events of her life. This has made it an absolute dream to explore and create this woman, and I'm beyond excited to see where her journey may lead.

Edited by tv echo
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Is Arrow Splitting Timelines Again? Did Life in Pieces Over-Poo It? SYTYCD Misstep? Gross Ninja? And More Qs!
By Vlada Gelman, Matt Webb Mitovich, Kimberly Roots, Dave Nemetz, Rebecca Iannucci and Ryan Schwartz / June 7 2019,
https://tvline.com/2019/06/07/arrow-season-8-timeline-tv-questions-answers/

Quote

7 | Given that Arrow‚Äės grown-up Connor Hawke has been promoted to series regular and TVLine reported that they‚Äôre casting an adult John Jr., is it safe to say the show is doing a split narrative again for its short, final season? Or might Oliver‚Äôs mission for the Monitor take him to the year 2040?

Edited by tv echo

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Is Supergirl trying to one-up Arrow? I just posted Vimeo audition videos in the Supergirl forum (here) for a new character, "Andrea Rojas", who apparently learned to build computers at age 3 (per audition sides).

This would make her more of a tech prodigy than Felicity, who started building computers at age 7.

Edited by tv echo
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7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Maybe the twist will be that that whole kill Connor thing was a misunderstanding and JJ is a grey character, not evil.  I mean at this point Slade and Deathstroke aren't the enemy.  And Connor joined his brother's gang in the past which you'd like to think he wouldn't have done if that org was just all bad.

That would be a better idea than brother vs brother with 2 second redemption and/or death which is what we had this season or in S2 where there was plenty of Lance drama but no actual conversation between the sisters. Although Slade isn't an enemy isn't his son who has taken over still an enemy? I wouldn't be surprised to see him or Grant (shades of LOT 2046) in the future.

I could see Connor and/or the others meeting Oliver at some point for maximum angst benefit, I think BL and KM also expressed an interest in it, but TVline is playing dumb when it's already been confirmed there are more FFS. 

Yeah it does seem that Mia is going to be around  (and not just to be put on the bus hopefully). It was just KM's vague answer a few weeks ago that made me worry that one of the remaining storyline I care about still, Oliver's kids bonding and claiming their legacy, was going to disappear. Now I'm just wondering if they're regulars as well.

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2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Is Supergirl trying to one-up Arrow? I just posted Vimeo audition videos in the Supergirl forum (here) for a new character, "Andrea Rojas", who apparently learned to build computers at age 3 (per audition sides).

This would make her more of a tech prodigy than Felicity, who started building computers at age 7.

I think Felicity built a supercomputer at the age of 7, way more complex than a normal computer.  We don't know when Felicity built her first computer.  My money's on 2.5 years old.

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From Arrow panel (CH, WH, moderated by Clare Kramer) at Oz Comic Con Melbourne on June 9...

 

Google translation: "# INFO : Colton has commented on the
 # OzComicCon that he still does not know if he will be on the S8 of # Arrow because the show has new characters and new stories."

Google translation: "Summary: They have released the bomb that Roy resurrected from the wells because the League of Thanatos follows behind them being a PIECE of plot, for NAD A. OK BETH. OK  # Arrow"

Edited by tv echo

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Casting Intel: 6 Series Adding (Significant) New Blood Next Season
By Michael Ausiello / June 7 2019
https://tvline.com/gallery/fall-preview-new-characters-this-is-us-the-flash/#!5/arrow-66/

Quote

ARROW
As we previously reported, a twentysomething, circa 2040 version of Diggle and Lyla’s son John Jr. will be a major recurring presence during the eighth and final season. Casting is underway.

Edited by tv echo

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I guess Wild Dog is back next season...

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12 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I think it would be more of a surprise if he wasn't in it.

Wishful thinking on my part that maybe we'd be blessed with no Wild Dog

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I'm at the point where I'm hoping next season will be chock full of WD and Dinah just so I can see what the ratings/engagement levels are. Can the Flash drag it up or will they sink together further. 

For all the resentment against shippers lets see what happens without shipping to carry the show. 

Anyone know if the bulk of the shipping population is still going to watch?

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I guess more mainly Olicity fans will watch with that ending than if they'd gone with a purely tragic on. And maybe if William and Mia have a good storyline. Or OTA fans if there's good Oliver and Dig or even Oliver and John Stewart Dig. I hope Lyla is around with the Connor v JJ stuff.

But with 10 eps to go I don't see anyone giving a hoot about the ratings really. I expect Colton will show up at some point even if he really doesn't know right now and he might be over egging that on purpose. I still want to know what happened to Thea and even an appearance by WH (possibly in the future to show she isn't dead? ) at least as a multiverse version.

Edited by Featherhat

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4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm at the point where I'm hoping next season will be chock full of WD and Dinah just so I can see what the ratings/engagement levels are. Can the Flash drag it up or will they sink together further. 

For all the resentment against shippers lets see what happens without shipping to carry the show. 

Anyone know if the bulk of the shipping population is still going to watch?

I'll watch for Dig Roy Mia William and Connor. But I'm expecting Dinah and Rene to get even more screen time based on past show history. And I'm half expecting Kat and Ben to not be regulars next season for some reason 

Just now, jay741982 said:

I'll watch for Oliver, Dig, Roy, Mia , William and Connor. But I'm expecting Dinah and Rene to get even more screen time based on past show history. And I'm half expecting Kat and Ben to not be regulars next season for some reason 

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8 hours ago, Featherhat said:

But with 10 eps to go I don't see anyone giving a hoot about the ratings really. I expect Colton will show up at some point even if he really doesn't know right now and he might be over egging that on purpose. I still want to know what happened to Thea and even an appearance by WH (possibly in the future to show she isn't dead? ) at least as a multiverse version.

Yeah, I'd expect all of the former regulars to show up at least one more time if scheduling permits, even if they're playing alternate versions of themselves.  And this really is a post-script season so who really cares if the ratings are good or not.  Everyone's still going to get paid and it's ultimately about getting Oliver set for the big crossover. 

And I still think something will happen to alter the future we've seen.  If it doesn't then even if Mia, William, etc. usher in a new utopia it still means Oliver, Felicity, etc. failed miserably and needed their kids to clean up the mess.

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It's not like Oliver and Felicity actually failed, peaced out, and left their kids with their jobs because they were too old to do them anymore or the villain was too big for them. Team Arrow won in 722 and then some months later Oliver has to leave with the Moniter and Felicity had to protect/raise baby Mia. If anything, the FF are the way they are specifically because the team couldn't be fully together and because Oliver was gone, not from a specific moment of Oliver and Felicity failing to be heroes. They even show this in 716, them being able to win because it was the first time in years that they actually worked together again (yeah the kids did a bunch of the work because it was their episode, but without info from Felicity and Rene and theoretically help from Dinah and the assistance from Knightwatch/Diggle, they wouldn't have won). 722 was to show that the kids could actually do it on their own (William comes up with their original plan, Zoe saves William and Rene, Mia blows up the wall, etc.).

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5 hours ago, jay741982 said:

I'll watch for Dig Roy Mia William and Connor. But I'm expecting Dinah and Rene to get even more screen time based on past show history. And I'm half expecting Kat and Ben to not be regulars next season for some reason 

Dinah and Rene will probably have a lot to do based on how other screen time has gone, setting up the future, and with Oliver probably not there for the majority of the time.

Hopefully Did, Lyla and BT based on Connor being a regular (although that certainly doesn't guarantee screentime). William and Mia I think they might have been made regulars at the same time of they were going to be but I guess we'll know for definite by SDCC.

I think they will be keeping the future since they've invested a lot in it storywise, but might alter it a bit if all hope of a spin off has gone.

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5 hours ago, way2interested said:

IfÔĽŅ anything, the FF are the way they are specifically because the team couldn't be fully¬†together and because Oliver was gone, not from a specific moment of Oliver and Felicity failing to be heroes.

I‚Äôll take this a step further‚ÄĒ from what we‚Äôve seen of the future so far, the fall of SC is because the people who stayed to continue the mission were failures.¬†Dinah and BS‚Äôs flock of canaries apparently did nothing except fuel people‚Äôs resentment of¬†vigilantes and Rene not only sold out, but was stupid enough to use his position to help the bad guys.¬†

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1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I‚Äôll take this a step further‚ÄĒ from what we‚Äôve seen of the future so far, the fall of SC is because the people who stayed to continue the mission were failures.¬†Dinah and BS‚Äôs flock of canaries apparently did nothing except fuel people‚Äôs resentment of¬†vigilantes and Rene not only sold out, but was stupid enough to use his position to help the bad guys.¬†

I mean basically yeah XD. The show has way more hints at showing how it's their fault rather than Olicity's, unless the failure to not be there (because they chose their families) and trust apparently inadequate help counts. The whole theme of the season was what Olicity would do for their family anyway, so it wasn't really portrayed in a negative light.

Edited by way2interested
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I'm good with the idea that the hell that is Starling City was caused by Dinah and Rene. It seems fitting to me.

22 hours ago, Featherhat said:

But with 10 eps to go I don't see anyone giving a hoot about the ratings really.

Especially since the only reason we're getting those 10 episodes is to set up COIE. Without that, the show would be over already.

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I previously posted a Digital Spy article titled "Arrow star admits that 'no one really wants' to make final season without Emily Bett Rickards" that included some DR comments at MCM London Comic Con on May 25 or 26 - now video of DR's media interview from which those comments were taken has been posted...

ARROW SEASON 8: David Ramsey previews what to expect, losing Felicity and...coconuts?!
Published on Jun 13, 2019, by Tanavi P

-- On how recent events (EBR's departure, Arrow announcement about ending after S8) have changed how he feels about returning to shoot next season of Arrow, DR: "Well, obviously, we go back and Emily's not a part of it. That's a big thing. You know, no one really wants to do that show. ... But yeah, I mean, there's that. No one really wants to do that."

-- DR: "But it's funny, we're talking about the next step, the next evolution of the show. Um, Stephen and I were talking. We both had conversations with the producers, and telling us exactly what they want to do with the next season. And it really is, um - it's exciting. I don't know how they're gonna do it, but whatever you think could happen, um, is probably something else." 

-- On whether it will feel like a different show, DR: "To some degree. To some degree." Tanavi commented that that makes sense, with Olicity presumably not going to be there, and then asked if Diggle was going to be looking for "new buddies." DR joked: "Uh, no. Actually, Oliver and Diggle fall in love... to replace Olicity.... No, they're not going to find new partners. I mean - you know, I don't know that. That's a good question. Will they find -? First of all, they can't find anyone to replace Felicity Smoak, Overwatch, right? How do you do that? So I don't know exactly how that plays out. And I don't know if everything's linear... I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think all that's on the table... I think, um, you know, multiple Earth things, I mean, all that stuff is, uh, stuff they're going to be playing with, I think... I mean, I think Crisis - Crisis does have a lot to do with actual [unintelligible word], so...." Tanavi then commented about maybe multiple Diggles and multiple OTAs, but DR didn't say anything. 

-- On Diggle possibly having the Green Lantern ring. DR: "They continue to kinda tease this thing. Um, I don't know what's gonna happen with that. It's fun to tease it... I've said this before, I would love to jump into that John Stewart, Green Lantern, whole universe. But I don't know."

-- On whether he's read episode 801, DR: "No. I just got the bullet points... and that was enough for me to be like, 'wow.' But, no, I haven't read it yet."

-- On the pros and cons of having a 10-episode season, DR: "Um, well, I think the cons will be that you just aren't working as long with people you like to work with. I think everyone enjoys working with each other. So we won't be doing that. There's a new muscle because for the last seven seasons, we've been doing 22, 23 episodes. So that's another muscle, right? ... Just in terms of the pacing of one episode. Because now you have really just have - uh, tend to tell this story that normally was told twice as many episodes. So that pacing, I think, have to get used to. But the positive to it, I think, is that you can kind of do whatever you want, the next 10 episodes. So, um, that's exciting, right? Because you just have this big looming storyline in Crisis that's coming. You can kind of do whatever you want kind of between."

-- On what he wants to see for Diggle and his family, DR: "Um, I think there has to be some - I know we will have some - some interesting things to happen between John Diggle and Lyla Michaels... You're going to have a good amount of Dyla... Yeah, there's going to be some stuff happening between them. And, um - and obviously, how Connor Hawke became their adopted child. There's a story there. And, um - and, you know, his own son John Jr., how he became the leader of this nefarious group in the future. What happened to that relationship? So we kind of have to touch on all of that. And, you know, if John Diggle does take on the moniker of the Green Lantern, does he take on also the moniker of perhaps becoming a Stewart? And if he does, what happens to that relationship with his father to let him to do that? ... There's a lot to tell with John Diggle. Um, John Diggle, to me, is just one of those characters where you know him but you don't know him, you know, you just haven't seen - this first time you saw his father... finally, yeah... and his last name is Stewart. You're like, what does that mean? You find out his father's alive and what his father says. Never seen his mother. So I think it's just a lot of story left for John Diggle."

-- On what advice he could tell his S1 self, DR: "Stop. Listen. Be true to yourself."

-- Tanavi: "Last thing, 'cause it is going to be the end of the series. Do you want to go out with a happy ending or in a blaze of glory?" DR: "Um, in all seriousness... I know some of the answer to that, based on what I know about what happens ultimately to John Diggle. Um, so I would say, um, that it's both."

-- On S8, DR: "It is going to be awesome. Things you have not seen."

Edited by tv echo
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Arrow is coming back Oct 15. 

Also, this person seems to think they’ll air their xover ep before Xmas and come back after the winter break for one final ep to wrap it up, but I don’t know where she’s getting that info:

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It wasn't really common belief that Arrow would come back in January, they announced Arrow would return in October on Tuesdays after Flash back at Upfronts. Depending on when the crossover is this year, they might have Arrow have 2 episodes in 2020 since it's airing a week later. Like, if the crossover is in the first week of December that would be 609 of Flash while Arrow is only on 808.

Edited by way2interested
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On 6/12/2019 at 2:42 PM, lemotomato said:

Dinah and BS’s flock of canaries apparently did nothing except fuel people’s resentment of vigilantes and Rene not only sold out, but was stupid enough to use his position to help the bad guys. 

Yeah...what exactly did the flock of canaries do to help things exactly? We mostly just heard how they keep each other getting their asses kicked, or hear about them all being killed to try and make the bad guy more scary. Everything still sucks, have we ever seen them making any real difference? 

I am actually kind of curious about what "things we have not seen" are. I guess Olicity having more than two conversations in one episode that are not angsty as fuck?

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Just a summary of what we already know so far...

Fall TV Preview: Who's In? Who's Out? Our Guide to Every Casting Move So Far
By Team TVLine / June 18 2019
https://tvline.com/gallery/tv-cast-changes-spoilers-2019-2020-season/#!1/tv-cast-changes-arrow-emily-bett-rickards/

Quote

ARROW
Emily Bett Rickards (Felicity) is not returning as a series regular for the eighth and final, 10-episode season. (READ MORE)

https://tvline.com/gallery/tv-cast-changes-spoilers-2019-2020-season/#!2/arrow-joseph-david-jones-2/

Quote

ARROW
Joseph David-Jones (Future Connor Hawke) has been promoted to series regular for the eighth and final, 10-episode season. 

Edited by tv echo

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IIRC, Arrow is also going to have a retrospective of the series with cast and crew.  It makes some sense that might immediately follow the final episode so they have #10 in January the week before the other shows return.

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S7 finale being the end of Arrow is pretty much what we were all thinking but good to know.

No alternative versions of characters? I was assuming that was coming as a way to bring back actors for a last hurrah or provide some cool/shocking moments without disrupting much like John Diggle Stewart, actually alive somewhere!Tommy or some other version of Laurel for Katie.

What was the "dream ending for Oliver" about? I can't seem to get twitter to work right now.

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26 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

What was the "dream ending for Oliver" about? I can't seem to get twitter to work right now.

Fan tweet simply said: "Dream ending for Oliver Queen? Uh-uh. :)."

I don't know if SA's "uh-uh" meant that he was saying Oliver won't get a dream ending or if he was just refusing to respond to that question.

Maybe if someone posts video, we can get a better idea of what he meant by the context and tone of his response.

Edited by tv echo

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Thanks. Hmm, hard to tell what he means.

He's probably not with his kids post 7x22 ending but it's likely Felicity is off to join him wherever or he dies saving everyone or both which are all good endings for him. Possibly he was just saying he wasn't going to give out his prefered senario then.

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I'm beginning to worry a bit about Kat McNamara and Billy Lewis not being announced as regulars yet. I like Connor but I need him Mia and William to be in all the Flashforwards next season to enjoy them 

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1 hour ago, jay741982 said:

I'm beginning to worry a bit about Kat McNamara and Billy Lewis not being announced as regulars yet. I like Connor but I need him Mia and William to be in all the Flashforwards next season to enjoy them 

I thought they'd be announced together if they all were getting upped, but it doesn't always happen that way. LOT promoted/cast several new regulars at different times last summer and KA was only announced soon before the season began, there's still time. I'm not interested in William and Mia-less FFs but if they remain guest stars doesn't mean that they won't have a good storyline or be in every one. JDJ being a regular doesn't mean he'll be in all of them either, far from it. Guest stars quite often have more to do. I really hope they aren't bussed off somewhere in favour of brothers Diggle. 

I was thinking KMcN might not want to commit even for 10 eps as she's getting quite a bit of publicity right now but Ben Lewis did seem to think he'd be back and isn't doing much else, so who knows. I've been talked down from thinking Kat's comments meant she didn't know if she's be back at all. Hopefully we'll hear something one way or another soon. I'd be more worried if it was a full season (same with other storylines) and it does seem heavy on Oliver plus Monitor. Now I'm thinking about what the non comment today meant. Did he just not answer the question or did he, very succinctly? ūüėČ

Edited by Featherhat

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12 hours ago, Featherhat said:

S7 finale being the end of Arrow is pretty much what we were all thinking but good to know.

No alternative versions of characters? I was assuming that was coming as a way to bring back actors for a last hurrah or provide some cool/shocking moments without disrupting much like John Diggle Stewart, actually alive somewhere!Tommy or some other version of Laurel for Katie.

What was the "dream ending for Oliver" about? I can't seem to get twitter to work right now.

He doesn't think we will but that doesn't include actual COIE.

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RG and JH (as well as KL and KA) will be at Fan Fest-New Jersey next weekend. Maybe they'll give us a clue as to what Rene and Dinah will be doing next season.

As for KM and BL, maybe the delay is due to spin-off negotiations and/or even making a spin-off decision by TPTB, so that they can announce their S8 cast status at the same time. Or maybe the negotiations and decisions have already been made, but they're saving the big announcement for SDCC (July 18-21).

Edited by tv echo
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48 minutes ago, Trini said:

Was McNamara a regular last season?

No, she and BL were just recurring (BL being in 11 episodes, KM being in 10), but the leaked casting call for their characters originally had their roles as recurring with series regular option for s8.

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Another reason for the delay might be KM's contractual obligation to Shadowhunters. Even though that show just finished its final season and is now cancelled, there might be a period of time during which the actors are still under legal obligation (I think something like that happened with Timeless where the cast was bound for a few months after cancellation). Therefore, if the show is somehow saved by another network or streaming service,* she would be committed to doing that show again and not be available for a series regular role on Arrow next season or for any Arrow spin-off.  Tbc, I don't know, I'm just speculating.

(* At least one media outlet has speculated that Shadowhunters might be saved by winning one or more Teen Choice Awards - they have 4 noms in Wave 1. Voting in this wave ends on June 25, but the winners won't be announced until the live awards show on Aug. 11. However, I doubt Arrow TPTB would wait until then to make their decisions.)

Edited by tv echo

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