Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Danny Franks]

Wait... they actually stashed Sara's body in a fridge? There is no way that wasn't deliberate, and it's just fucking gross. An insult to the character and to Caity Lotz ('hey, we know people like you, but we don't, so bye bye') and definitely to fans of the character. I imagine them giggling with glee at the symbolism of it, and it just solidifies my belief that they hated the character of Sara for somehow becoming popular while their precious princess, Laurel, was still loathed.

 

Nothing to do with the writing of the characters, or the talents of the actors involved or anything, just stoopid fans who won't make the smart choice and pick Laurel as their gal. I think this is a show I could grow very quickly to hate, even if I'm no longer watching it.

 

I cannot watch Laurel, and I feel like they've only had her keep Sara's death from Lance is so that she can be in the 'Let's Keep Secrets' Club, along with Oliver and the rest of Team Arrow. 

 

I have no interest whatsoever in Oliver and Felicity being at loggerheads, given that most of the fun in this show came from the two of them. If they're now trying to graft on Brandon Routh as the fun character, then they're really desperate. I said back when they first released spoilers about this storyline that the prospect of Oliver moping and flagellating himself in the Arrow Cave while Felicity embarks on a relationship with Atom or Flash or fucking Aquaman, sounded like a show I don't want to watch. Now I'm glad I made that decision.

 

I hope the ratings for this episode absolutely stink.

[kryptonjedi]

I think killing Sara was a bad move, and wish they would have gone in different direction. But  it seems some people seem to be thinking that the writers did this out of malice  towards the fans and Caity Lotz. I really think this is just a case of writers wanting to tell a story that not everyone going to be happy with.  

Edited October 16, 2014 by kryptonjedi

[Danny Franks]

I think killing Sara was a bad move, and wish they would have gone in different direction. But  it seems some people seem to be thinking that the writers did this out of malice  towards the fans and Caity Lotz. I really think this is just a case of writers wanting to tell a story that not everyone going to be happy with.  

 

I can't agree. The way her death was framed, and the symbolism used both during and after, tells me that this was not just the story they want to tell and the necessary evil of it. There is glee and a sense of smugness and meanness involved that I don't think can be ignored.

[Pyramid]

Thrown in the garbage and then in the fridge. They should go the whole hog and get CL to be KC's stunt double.

[Password]

I think that's part of the reason the episode felt so off. I feel like they missed a moment somewhere between Oliver and Felicity. I get that things are in flux between them but I needed a hug at the end. They didn't even need to talk. Just something.

 

And fine, I get it Oliver and Laurel needed to comfort each other at the funeral (if it can pass for that). But why wasn't Diggle holding Felicity? I'm liking Roy and Roy/Felicity, but after Diggle's muted reaction to Felicity getting hurt. I needed something.

 

Oliver and Diggle was prefect. All the other relationships? Just off. 

 

 

Yeah, there were a few opportunities where I thought maybe they'd put their differences aside and hug, and I hate that it didn't happen. They've blown up at each other before (and in high-stress situations, I completely understand it, regardless of how wrong it is to the core - like Felicity with her "feelings" comment, which I'm glad she apologized for right away), but yet again they're writing for plot instead of character. They need Oliver and Felicity to have emotional distance to keep them apart (contrived, contrived, contrived), but the Felicity and Oliver they've written over the past two years would've comforted each other. Oliver in his emotionally closed-off way and Felicity in her emotionally available way. I didn't even need it to be "Olicity"-like, just...something to show that they were in this together. Ugh.

 

This ep was disappointing, and if that's a love letter to Sara Lance, then...I feel sorry for these guys' wives.

 

This is definitely how I felt. I'm at the point where I think it went down exactly as it should have, or it was actually kind of OOC. I actually felt like there was an entire frikin' episode missing between Felicity and Oliver. The chasm was very wide and I think we're meant to see how much the ILY affected them, and Felicity walking away but...I hope the writers don't decide that this chasm is the way to write their relationship. I love their openness and honesty with each other. And the comfort. It just seemed like they really needed Felicity to make (very quick and emotional) decisions to get her to Ray Palmer's company. Whilst I'm all for her life outside of OQ...there was just something not quite right.

[tv echo]

KC is giving interviews all over the place now.  You can tell she is deliriously happy about Sara's death.  From her interviews, it sounds like she signed onto this show with the understanding that she was going to play an action hero.  I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason that Laurel had to become the BC was because the EPs feared a breach of contract lawsuit.  The rest of the reason, as I've speculated before, is producer ego.

 

I see ratings dropping this season, and different groups of fans blaming different things for the ratings drop.  I think the EPs grew complacent with Arrow's success and the go-ahead for The Flash spin-off, and got lazy with Arrow's storytelling - make Laurel the BC!  introduce

Ra's al Ghul!

Edited October 16, 2014 by tv echo

[Genki]

I'm bitter because I was feeling very good about this season and Episode 3.01 then that pulled THAT ENDING. Steps toward Laurel as the Black Canary significantly dropped my enthusiasm levels.

 

Silly me thought they couldn't drop any lower then Episode 3.02 happpened.

 

Was a "good" episode, with some amazing acting, I even believed KC portrayal of Laurel in some scenes, it just wasn't enjoyable.

 

A large was due in part to Plot contrivances, but the biggest was the chasm between Oliver and Felicity. Seemed way more than it should be based on previous character development. If it continues, it will be so very hard to get through the rest of the season.

[apinknightmare]

This is definitely how I felt. I'm at the point where I think it went down exactly as it should have, or it was actually kind of OOC. I actually felt like there was an entire frikin' episode missing between Felicity and Oliver. The chasm was very wide and I think we're meant to see how much the ILY affected them, and Felicity walking away but...I hope the writers don't decide that this chasm is the way to write their relationship. I love their openness and honesty with each other. And the comfort. It just seemed like they really needed Felicity to make (very quick and emotional) decisions to get her to Ray Palmer's company. Whilst I'm all for her life outside of OQ...there was just something not quite right.

I understand why Oliver was distant; I think that if he had hugged her or allowed himself that comfort, he would've fallen apart (for lack of a better word). He was losing Felicity on top of losing Sara and I get that it would've been too much. And I maybe understand Felicity not being there for him like she had been previously, because allowing herself to be vulnerable like that for him is dangerous for her too. But I think we needed an ep or maybe just a few scenes where they re-established some boundaries so it didn't seem so jarring, considering how emotionally open they were being with each other last episode.

I'm glad the show has established that Felicity's wary of Ray and acknowledges that he's a stalker (which is still not cute), so I think she went in and accepted that offer because it was something she couldn't refuse since she's been working a shitty part time job in order to make herself available for Oliver's crusade. I can see how that would be tempting given the headspace she's in and since she's going into it with her eyes open, I'm okay with it.

[quarks]

Yes, @DannyFranks, they really did stuff Sara's body into a fridge.  And agreed with you that seeing Oliver/Felicity at loggerheads takes away a lot of the fun of their relationship.

 

I really think this is just a case of writers wanting to tell a story that not everyone going to be happy with.

 

 

Sara's death? Sure. 

 

The fridge part? No.

 

Look, if at some point someone over on How To Get Away With Murder stuffs a woman's body into a fridge, I'll let it go, because I have no evidence that the writers for that show know anything about this trope, and also, that's not a superhero show. Go ahead and stuff away.

 

This show, though? It's written by comic book writers.  Kreisberg and Guggenheim have publicly discussed the "Women in Refrigerators" issue at comic book panels and in interviews. They chat with Gail Simone, who pointed out the problem and created the term, on Twitter and in real life.  They know exactly what putting the body of a dead woman in a refrigerator means in the context of starting a superhero journey.   And they know their superhero tropes and symbols: they keep using them all over the show. 

 

So yeah, that part was deliberate.

[HighHopes]

I'm bitter about that last shot of Laurel holding Sara's shark and then holding up the jacket. I'm a younger sister to three older ones, and an older sister to a (way) younger half brother and sister. If I had just experienced everything Laurel did? I would most likely either be sobbing uncontrollably into that shark, or I would be in such a state of shock and emotionally drained that I would be just sitting there.

 

I would not hold my sister's favourite stuffed animal and then have their crime fighting jacket next to me, throw the stuffed animal aside and hold that up instead. And yes, Laurel went through the grief of losing her sister before- but she watched.her.sister.die. And her response is to hold up the leather jacket and go "Hmmmm????". Really?

Edited October 16, 2014 by HighHopes

[Sakura12]

Sara's favorite stuff animal was a shark? That's pretty badass. lol. 

 

However I really wonder how much she liked it after having been floating around the ocean for days on nothing but a piece of wood, twice, when sharks were probably around. 

[dtissagirl]

Yes, @DannyFranks, they really did stuff Sara's body into a fridge.  And agreed with you that seeing Oliver/Felicity at loggerheads takes away a lot of the fun of their relationship.

 

Sara's death? Sure. 

 

The fridge part? No.

 

Look, if at some point someone over on How To Get Away With Murder stuffs a woman's body into a fridge, I'll let it go, because I have no evidence that the writers for that show know anything about this trope, and also, that's not a superhero show. Go ahead and stuff away.

 

This show, though? It's written by comic book writers.  Kreisberg and Guggenheim have publicly discussed the "Women in Refrigerators" issue at comic book panels and in interviews. They chat with Gail Simone, who pointed out the problem and created the term, on Twitter and in real life.  They know exactly what putting the body of a dead woman in a refrigerator means in the context of starting a superhero journey.   And they know their superhero tropes and symbols: they keep using them all over the show. 

 

So yeah, that part was deliberate.

 

I completely agree that it was deliberate, for all the reasons you stated, but I just... what's the point in lampshading the fact that they used a super problematic trope while killing Sara? It's tacky, it's cruel, and it's unnecessary since the narrative is dealing with the death anyway.

 

Is this some sort of power play between the EPs and the audience? Are they telling us we better get in line and accept Laurel as our One True Princess Warrior, or they'll keep fridging everyone that gets in her way? Is this the point where these guys out themselves as legit scum people?

Edited October 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Trini]

 

Is this some sort of power play between the EPs and the audience? Are they telling us we better get in line and accept Laurel as our One True Princess Warrior, or they'll keep fridging everyone that gets in her way? Is this the point where these guys out themselves as legit scum people?

The only other shows that I know of that deliberately trolled their audiences are Smallville and Supernatural. Hmm... maybe it's a CW symptom.

[HighwayFlower]

They should have just gave Katie Cassidey her own super hero show from the start since Arrow is becoming all about her.

[hogwash]

Like everyone else, I saw Diggle's daughter being named Sara coming. But when Diggle said it, all I could think (besides DUH) was if s02 had actually done what is was supposed to do, I wouldn't have been rolling my eyes during this supposedly poignant moment and wondering (1) if Lyla and Sara actually interacted (I'm 80% sure they didn't) and (2) when Sara and Diggle actually showed the kind of relationship that would warrant Diggle naming his first kid after her.

The first one can be fixed through retconning (and anything that retcons s02's back half is alright with me), but the second thing will probably just keep reminding me how lazy last season was til the bitter end. Especially when it comes to Sara. As far as I'm concerned, only Roy and Oliver's reaction fit with their s02 relationship with Sara. Though I should probably give Felicity more credit considering she cried for Moira who, like I've mentioned, was EVUL!! Laurel's reaction was... It wasn't completely out of the blue since it was very similar to what she did when investigating Sebastian Blood. But the spirit behind it is what I don't buy. Hell, if Laurel had ended up murdered and we spent the episode watching Sara frantically and irrationally trying to find her beloved sister's killer, I would've called bullshit.

I wouldn't expect either of them to be doing the jig to ding dong the witch is dead if the other one ended up murdered but I don't buy the purported love behind their interactions/relationship (I actually tuned out of their 301 meeting until the first arrow hit Sara). Whenever they interact, it always hits me that the foundation for this newfound relationship of theirs is 214. UGH. On paper if you didn't know they were sisters, everything about their relationship/interactions breeds antagonism. But s02 basically glossed over any issues they had with each other in favor of a quick and easy reconciliation. I almost wish they had done a rehash of Laurel's s01 relationship with Oliver and the Hood (only not as dumb and inconsistent) with Sara and the Canary. Hell, they could have at least let Laurel be pissed about Sara hooking up with Oliver again within .002 seconds (in Laurel's view) of getting back to Starling City for longer than half an episode. Or let Sara hold onto that slightly petulant attitude she had when Laurel didn't welcome her back with open arms for a couple of episodes. But instead *60 second fart noise* and we're stuck pretending these sisters actually loved and supported each other in a probably season long arc for Laurel. *60 second fart noise*

I am actually pretty cool with 301/302 but I saw a chance to bitch about s02, Laurel/Sara, and 214 (hate that episode with a burning passion) and I ran with it.

[Danny Franks]

The only other shows that I know of that deliberately trolled their audiences are Smallville and Supernatural. Hmm... maybe it's a CW symptom.

 

Nah. Castle did it too. Most egregiously in a third season episode called Countdown. It was so obviously trolling, and was even ramped up by the dumbass showrunner pimping the episode on social media as the "best writing [he'd] ever done", that he had to issue an apology afterwards and ask fans to trust him. Writers dick around with their audience if they think they can get away with it, so it's the audience's responsibility to tell them they can't.

 

But it does seem like they're punishing the audience for daring to like Sara more, and I think that's worse than dicking around. That's just flat out petty, mean writing, and it has no place in the work of a professional. It feels more like a fanfic written by one of Katie Cassidy's more zealous fans, who hates anyone who threatens her place on the show.

[KenyaJ]

 (2) when Sara and Diggle actually showed the kind of relationship that would warrant Diggle naming his first kid after her.

 

I don't think they ever did, TBH. They had a handful of interactions here and there, but the most substantial one I can think of is the conversation with Oliver about their scars in TOD. I felt like naming the baby Sara was more of a gesture to Oliver, because he knew her importance in Oliver's life. That's what made Diggle's reaction to her death of interest to me, had he been allowed to have one.

[Chaser]

Diggle naming his daughter Sara just felt like a gimmick to me. It didn't pack any punch for me.

 

I really wanted Diggle to throw some shade on Laurel in the Foundry, but I feel they are going to use Sara's death to make Laurel sympathic to Diggle this season. I will be pissed if they bond over the lose of a sibling. Ugh. I could totally see them doing that. Coupled with the lack of Diggle and Felicity intereaction so far. Just Ugh

[Happy Harpy]

Sara Lance: "They fridged me for my sister, and all they got are those crappy ratings".

 

#bitter

and

#bitter for the cast and crew who work so hard

[Sakura12]

I think the EP's see Diggle naming his daughter Sara has a consolation prize for Sara fans. 

 

To me it also seems like the EP's have no idea what they wanted to do for season 3. They really think who killed Sara is a half season mystery? That should be 3 to 4 episode tops. Especially since it's whole purpose is to jump start Laurel's journey (which most fans are not interested in). 

 

The first two episodes of season 2 I was ready to jump all in with Arrow, then up until episode 14 I was excited to watch every Wed and watched most episodes again. This season I already skipped 1 episode out of 2 that aired and really don't plan on watching more. I might watch Felicity's ep but just skip around to her parts. However Arrow is off my DVR schedule.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Sakura12

[hogwash]

They had a handful of interactions here and there, but the most substantial one I can think of is the conversation with Oliver about their scars in TOD. I felt like naming the baby Sara was more of a gesture to Oliver, because he knew her importance in Oliver's life. That's what made Diggle's reaction to her death of interest to me, had he been allowed to have one.

That scar conversation from 214 is basically how I remember their interactions too. I vaguely remember Sara calling Diggle her friend when Roy was hulking out sometime after 214 and some minor stuff from the beginning of the season, but I don't think there was much more to their relationship that we missed.

Diggle naming her Sara for Oliver is sweet and totally fits with Diggle and Oliver but at the same time it's frustrating. Because with this show (and especially s02), Oliver is always the common thread. I honestly don't problem with that. It's a big draw for me that the show is about Oliver. But two characters like Sara and Diggle who could have easily had a great relationship, don't because the show focuses on tying it all to Oliver. Now there's no chance of it because Laurel is nothing on the show if she's not the Black Canary (s03 and the Black Canary thing is still a fiasco). It's two things that can really bother me about Arrow. One more than the other...

[JJ928]

You know I really loved Sara, and I'm still pissed they killed her off but I didn't like Diggle naming his daughter after her. It feels like the writers were throwing her fans a bone, while making Diggle's newborn about honoring someone he didn't know that well. Again, I love Sara but I feel like the baby should have been named Andrea after his brother Andy, or some other family name. We have yet to truly explore Diggle's story that began in season 1... the search for his brother's killer, now once again it's being pushed aside and it pisses me off. 

[ban1o]

Yeah I thought Felicity's reaction was also a little bit much considering she didn't know Sara for that long. I get that they just wanted to give her more screen time, but it kinda felt artificial. 

 

Same with Diggle. 

Edited October 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Velocity23]

Didnt Felicity & Diggle know Sara now for about 1 year. And they did spend quite some time together in the lair. Felicity even got a bullet wound while throwing herself infront Sara. Maybe i also count the deleted scene where they were holding hands and where Felicity told Sara that the lair is her home.

[Password]

I agree that when Felicity was lamenting Sara's Amazonian warrior-ness and said she was jealous I had Time of Death flashbacks to when I really believed Sara would end up with the ability to fly. Did not appreciate that moment at all. Especially considering the deleted scenes from season 2, it wasn't quite earned for Felicity or Diggle.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah I thought Felicity's reaction was also a little bit much considering she didn't know Sara for that long. I get that they just wanted to give her more screen time, but it kinda felt artificial.

Same with Diggle.

I wrote this in another post (can't remember where), but I think this is where the show suffers a lot from crammed story lines. We don't get to see their friendships, but Sara spent a lot of time with Felicity and Diggle. They were in that foundry working together for hours nearly every day. I don't doubt they were friends, close friends even, but the story suffers because we're left to connect the dots without ever getting to see it.

[Guest]

They should have kept that deleted Sara/Felicity scene from s2 and then their connection/friendship would have been felt more in this episode.

[calliope1975]

One of my regrets for this show was not seeing Sara and Diggle interact very much. I thought they had a really nice dynamic when they first met (I was even quasi-shipping them,) but then it went nowhere. I know it's all about Oliver Queen and the show is called Arrow, but I think all the characters suffer when everything must lead back to Oliver.

[ban1o]

I wrote this in another post (can't remember where), but I think this is where the show suffers a lot from crammed story lines. We don't get to see their friendships, but Sara spent a lot of time with Felicity and Diggle. They were in that foundry working together for hours nearly every day. I don't doubt they were friends, close friends even, but the story suffers because we're left to connect the dots without ever getting to see it.

I think the show suffers a lot from "telling" and not "showing" 

They should have kept that deleted Sara/Felicity scene from s2 and then their connection/friendship would have been felt more in this episode.

yeah I didn't really get a sense in the show that Felicity and Sara were really friends. I though EBR's performance was decent but it didn't feel completely genuine or earned. 

 

And Diggle naming the baby Sara felt more for Oliver and Laurel then for Sara since they barely interacted. 

Edited October 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Chaser]

I actually liked Felicity's monolouge over Sara's body. As much as I didn't like TOD, I liked hearing Felicity admire Sara. Even though the show didn't get to show Sara's friendship with Felicity and Diggle, I don't doubt they had one. Sara touching Felicity's arm in greeting. I loved when Sara asked what she should do if she say Helena.

 

Though I wish Roy was replaced by Oliver in the scene. I think it would have been nice to hear his memories.

[NumberCruncher]

From News thread:

I agree and I'm really trying to figure out what made season 2a so exciting. That aura is just gone.

The aura that's gone is the original Team Arrow banter. The Oliver/Felicity/Diggle interaction in the first episodes of S2 has disappeared in S3 because there are now 2 more people there. I don't say that as a hater of either Roy or Laurel, but the SA/DR/EBR chemistry just isn't being allowed to shine as much because there are too many characters in the Arrow cave and that makes me sad. You can't compare what we have been given in these first 2 episodes to the awesome Diggle/Felicity/Oliver airplane and island scenes in 2x01 and the QC office and Arrow cave scenes from 2x02.

[Happy Harpy]

 

Felicity even got a bullet wound while throwing herself infront Sara.

I agree.

Moreover, Felicity has always showed deep empathy for the people who suffer. She was feeling for Sara's plight before she even knew her, IIRC. Same for Diggle, Sara said explicitly he was her friend and was ready to kill for him.

Finally, if you rewatch Sara's arrival in the Arrowcave in last season's finale, the little arm squeeze and exchange of glances between Sara and Felicity is a sweet show of friendship, between two people who know and like and understand each other (and actually, I think it's my favorite scene of the episode).

 

And it makes me that Diggle/Sara and Felicity/Sara friendships were left with crumbles, in order to give more airtime to sister swapping and Emmy-worthy performances.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[writersblock51]

I bought the grief expressed by Felicity and Diggle - part of the 'gap that I think was missing from the show and what we've seen aired was filled in slightly with the deleted scene of Felicity & Sara.   I also think there was an implied friendship between the 2 of them that we didn't see but doesn't mean wasn't there.  The case in point for me was when Sara showed up in the finale with Nyssa, Nyssa looked straight at Felicity, with respect.  I think Sara told Nyssa all about Team Arrow.

 

I also read a lot of fanfic during the hiatus and Sara and Felicity being close friends was among the common thread for a big chunk of the stories I'd read.

 

As for Diggle... I think he and Sara shared a lot of common ground - as fighters, as Oliver's fighting partners and as people who have seen and done things that they don't talk about.  I think they respected each other very much.  While I cringed at the scene at the funeral about the baby's name, I wasn't surprised about it.  It seemed like a thing that of course the show would do. *eye roll*

 

That being said, I think it's sad that it was Diggle's only line of dialogue to Laurel in the entire episode.  Unless I missed a scene, which is entirely possible.

 

As for Felicity, I'm not surprised she took Sara's death so hard and emotionally. I think she's an emotional person - we've seen her get ridiculously excited about stuff like a microprocessing system or what not ("Can I touch it?") so yeah, the lows are going to be low.  And I think this is the first death of a friend that she's had to deal with since joining Oiver's adventure.  She was clearly sad - and it lingered for a bit - when they thought Walter was dead.  And he was merely her kind boss.   She cried for Oliver at Moira's funeral. 

 

But Sara was a friend, possibly a close one, and she was lying in the place that (per the deleted scene) that Felicity called "home."

 

So I give her all sorts of space to grieve but it was all around an absolutely awful situation.

 

I also think Sara's death feels yet more painful coming as it does after the break up with Oliver.  It's been a devastating week for Oliver and Felicity.

 

ETA: And what Happy Harpy said ;-)

 

I'm still bitter about how every element of Sara's death has been written.  I do believe every aspect of it was thought out.  This is not the rough draft - this is the final product, so there definitely was a lot of consideration put into it.  I would think every major charactes death on the show is analyzed from every angle.  The show takes symbolism seriously. 

 

While the show agreed with Manu Bennett about using a sword to kill Moira because of the honorific meaning it held, I have to wonder what other options had been on the table when discussing how Sara would die.  And this was the best they could come up with.  This ... mess... is what Andrew Kriesburg calls their love letter.

 

Fuck them.

Edited October 16, 2014 by writersblock51

[JJ928]

Just to clarify: I do think Diggle had respect and genuine caring for Sara, even if I don't think they knew each other that well. I mean, we saw Sara all year long but when she left Starling the first time ,she didn't come back to present day until mid-season. So in reality, Team Arrow didn't get to spend that much time with her. Yes, I considered all of them friends, however, there are friends & there are friends you name you child after. For me, they weren't that close & it felt off that Diggle would do that. I agree with people saying that it was more for Oliver, but it bothers me because his baby should be about him & Lyla only.

 

Felicity's reaction didn't feel out of place for me. I think it could have been a stranger, someone Oliver cared about and she would have been emotional. Not to the same extent but she'd still mourn for Oliver.

With Sara, I do think she considered her a friend, and I think she really admired Sara's strength. I always viewed Felicity as lonely, so I expect her to be deeply affected when something happens to the family she has formed with Team Arrow. Sara though a late arrival did become part of that family for her.

[dtissagirl]

I was reading the io9 recap that was linked in the Media thread [http://io9.com/on-arrow-laurel-wants-to-help-1647009818] and I admit that up until now Ray Palmer was barely registering on my radar. Obvious Felicity/Oliver cockblocker, creepy stalker but the show is admitting to it, superhero played by a bland pretty face actor that's gonna make me confuse Ray/Roy every single time, but that was about it.

 

However, if they're deliberately going with a 50 Shades parallel here with the 1.2 billion corportate shenanigan to get to the girl? I might vomit.

Edited October 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[writersblock51]

That review is on target, no pun intended. That and the AV Club one seem to best explain things to my satisfaction.

[Morrigan2575]

Never read 50 Shades, but I really, really hope that's not what they're doing.

[Orion]

So far I've ... not noticed Ray. For good or bad most of the time. He was cute (which I was not expecting at all) during the scene at Tech Village -cute flannel, skippy step, appreciates that Felicity shouldn't be working there. But that scene last night where he told her how she was feeling, that set off all kinds of NO alarms for me. My biggest pet peeve in any story hands down is to have a male character tell a female character she doesn't know how she feels but he does. That gets really too close to patting her on the head and sending her on her way for me.  "Aren't you cute little lady, let the men folk handle things like understanding how you feel, you women are just way too emotional for such things. *wink*"

 

But on my list of problems I have with that episode Ray is going to have to take a back seat. I'm still not over other issues, which might be good for him, give him time to course correct before he draws my attention.

[wonderwall]

Did anyone else notice KC tweet "The Rise of Laurel Lance" during the episode? I swear to god that woman is so tactless. It's quite insulting to Sara fans actually.. 

[Sakura12]

She's probably hoping the show will do things like they did for Sara when they had "a Canary uncaged!" in their promo. 

[Guest]

Did anyone else notice KC tweet "The Rise of Laurel Lance" during the episode? I swear to god that woman is so tactless. It's quite insulting to Sara fans actually.. 

 

Yes and it really pissed me off. She needs to learn some netiquette. Glad it didn't trend though, which again says a lot.

[apinknightmare]

I was reading the io9 recap that was linked in the Media thread [http://io9.com/on-arrow-laurel-wants-to-help-1647009818] and I admit that up until now Ray Palmer was barely registering on my radar. Obvious Felicity/Oliver cockblocker, creepy stalker but the show is admitting to it, superhero played by a bland pretty face actor that's gonna make me confuse Ray/Roy every single time, but that was about it.

 

However, if they're deliberately going with a 50 Shades parallel here with the 1.2 billion corportate shenanigan to get to the girl? I might vomit.

 

I don't think it's reached 50 Shades level yet, because he's only pursing her as a potential employee, not a girlfriend. My ex-boyfriend was heavily recruited by two Fortune 500 companies, and the things they did for/gave him to persuade him into working for them was ridiculous. To me, Ray's your typical rich guy who goes after and gets what he wants, professionally speaking. I mean, he wouldn't be a billionaire if he didn't! If he acts this way if/when they date, I'll change my tune and quickly.

 

I think the Buy More purchase was probably done because the people who write this show don't know/care how business works OR that purchase was already underway and Ray just told her he purchased it so she'd be his subordinate just to tease her.

[Danny Franks]

Did anyone else notice KC tweet "The Rise of Laurel Lance" during the episode? I swear to god that woman is so tactless. It's quite insulting to Sara fans actually.. 

 

Did it trend worldwide? Ah, stupid question. It probably didn't even trend in the Cassidy household.

 

But that scene last night where he told her how she was feeling, that set off all kinds of NO alarms for me. My biggest pet peeve in any story hands down is to have a male character tell a female character she doesn't know how she feels but he does. That gets really too close to patting her on the head and sending her on her way for me.  "Aren't you cute little lady, let the men folk handle things like understanding how you feel, you women are just way too emotional for such things. *wink*"

 

 

Yeah, it's absolutely creepy, and if the writers were going for that, and deliberately setting him up to be a creeper who won't take no for an answer, then it might be interesting, if unsettling. But you know these writers don't have that sort of depth, so Ray telling Felicity what to think, and exerting his control over her 'charmingly', is probably supposed to be a romantic gesture. He'll probably be forcing her into going on dates with him, by about episode five of the season. You know, that trope where he leads her to believe it's some business function, but really he wants to take her to a fancy soiree, and charm her out of her underwear.

[Velocity23]

there were apparently 93 tweets on that topic. So nope it didnt tweet.

[writersblock51]

Just checked it - because I'm morbidly curious. It got 351 retweets. And I think it did trend at some point. Someone posted a picture of it trending.

 

Yay.

 

Insensitivity and unprofessionalism rewarded!

[dtissagirl]

Since they made Ray a stalker and then Felicity called him a stalker to his face about 17 times, that part didn't bother me much. And I really don't feel anything towards Ray right now other than he's just... there. Possibly putting me to sleep so far. And yeah, I thought he was after Felicity professionally too, except for that line about most girls being flattered he spend 1.2 billion on her, which I thought was patronizing on top of creepy. Then again, Felicity thought the same thing, so I'm good there too.

 

But I had no idea about the 50 Shades thing until I read the io9 recap, and my hatred for what that book represents is so great that it pinged my bitterness.

Edited October 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Velocity23]

it trended in Brasil.  I just checked. And the RT i think came more from the fact that CW Arrow RT it.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Velocity23

[JJ928]

That tag trended in Brazil. One of the Arrow fan accts rt the photo last night.

[slayer2]

A bit bitter that there were random Tommy flashbacks when it should have been Sara/Laurel, Sara/Ollie Sara/Sin flashbacks that moved the plot along. Oh my Sara. *sigh

[dtissagirl]

it trended in Brasil.  I just checked. And the RT i think came more from the fact that CW Arrow RT it.

 

I APOLOGIZE FOR MY COMPATRIOTS!

 

Also, pfft, does trending while ilegally livestreaming a show counts?