Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Sakura12]

Felicity: "There's a robbery in progress"

Diggle and Roy are getting ready to walk out the door to go help. Laurel's still buckling up. 

Laurel: "Hold on a minute guys, I got put on my lipstick"

Diggle: "We're fighting crime not going to a fashion show." Looks at Felicity. "Are we 100% certain Sara's dead, dead?"

[doesntworkonwood]

This is mean but I'm just imagining her waddling around like a penguin because her buckles have gotten stuck together...

[Chaser]

Is that the same costume on display?

 

I just pulled up the other image to compare and it really is the same outfit. It just looks odd.

Edited January 12, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[apinknightmare]

Is that the same costume on display?

 

I just pulled up the other image to compare and it really is the same outfit. It just looks odd.

It looks the same, minus a glove.

[Guest]

You know, aside from the buckles which is just asking to get caught in something, my only issue with the BC costume is the fingerless gloves. She leaves a fingerprint behind at a crime scene and she is done. It's so simple and so dumb.

[Chaser]

Maybe she does and that's how Quentin finds out..lol?

 

I'm only half way joking on that comment

Edited January 12, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[KirkB]

Sakura12, I like your scene so much I made my own.

 

Felicity: Robbery in progress at fifth and main. Big group of bad guys. All hands on deck.

Oliver (on comm): On my way.

Roy and Diggle head out while Laurel is buckling up. Laurel: Almost ready, guys.

The fight is intense. Roy and Oliver are pretty banged up. Diggle has to ride with them cause the van is ruined. They turn the bad guys over to Quentin and head back to the lair, where Laurel is finishing up one last buckle.

Laurel: Done!

[Sakura12]

Laurel will probably be sitting in a chair with her compact applying her lipstick first, then start with the buckles.

 

That'll make her different then Sara! Sara looked all grimy and gross after rescuing a kid from a burning building. Laurel's not going to make that mistake, she's going to set a fashion trend for vigilantes with her lipstick and buckles. That's what is really important when fighting bad guys, looking good. 

Edited January 12, 2015 by Sakura12

[strikera0]

I actually want them to kill Felicity off now, so EBR can get a show that is worthy of her, and I can actually watch her again. She's too good for this dogshit. So are Stephen Amell, David Ramsey and Willa Holland.

 

I would be careful with sentiments like this because there is no guarantee that anyone associated with Arrow is going to line up another worthwhile role once the show is over. Very often, these type of roles turn out to be the pinnacle of an actor's career.

[Carrie Ann]

From the Spoiler spec thread (spoilers removed):

 

I've already dropped Sleepy Hollow and I'm pretty darn close to dropping Arrow after only just giving it a real chance over the summer. I really didn't anticipate Guggenheim et al could fuck up so much what I was enjoying and actively excited about for season 3: Team Arrow, Sara as BC, Olicity, and the potential of Ray and Ra's.

[...]

Also I feel like there has been a decent amount of criticism aimed precisely at this pacing, this course, that they don't want to alter.

 

blixie, you know I dropped Sleepy Hollow too, for the same reasons. And I see similarities between what happened over there and what's happening on Arrow. I think the reasons are very different, but the problem is the same at its root: the EPs need to identify the things that work on their shows and then make sure not to compromise those things while working to build other assets, or while building toward some amazing payoff. And this season, neither show has succeeded in that.

 

My number one complaint about 3A is the sacrifice of Original Team Arrow and the way that has impacted the feeling of the whole show. And part of it is for this unconvincing and muddled "Identity" conflict they're putting Oliver through. But the biggest reason for it is that they're trying to "activate" these other characters--Roy, Ray, Laurel. They think they're leveraging their assets--using their beloved characters to develop their weaker characters--but they're actually compromising them instead. They're sacrificing what works best in favor of things that don't work at all, and all we're left with is a show that is 85% composed of things I don't care about or actively dislike. 

 

You know, go ahead and introduce conflict between O/F, but then step up the F/D and O/D interactions to make up for it. Let the three of them share scenes alone together, even if it's just to roll their eyes at each other, I don't care. But build on this thing you've created. A season and a half isn't enough history to just bank on; you can't just ignore or even damage those characters/relationships for nine episodes and trust the S1&2 baseline to buoy the show. You can do that for a few episodes, but you need to come back to what works to make sure viewers know that you still care about those things and that you recognize where the real heart of the show lies.

 

I'm not dropping Arrow yet, but how 3B plays out, and how the EPs respond to viewer and critical concerns in the summer hiatus will really impact whether I watch S4. Because right now all I'm hearing is that Everything is Awesome and Don't You Love All These Other Characters, and NOPE, so if their priority now is to "build this world" and not to deepen the parts of it I actually care about, then I probably won't be here for that. (And back to SH for a minute--it would be great if Mo Ryan did an interview with MG like she did with Goffman, because she's been such a huge supporter of Arrow, but she shares all of my issues with this season and I'd love it if she put MG's feet to the fire in the same way.)

[MostlyC]

I've moved a bunch if posts this morning, so please be mindful of the topic.

 
Also, no fighting, no biting.  You know who you are.

[AnyoneButYou]

I'm hoping they add another full-time producer next season who can help them sort out the mess they've created this season. It's just been way too chaotic and, for me at least, there's just been no storytelling like there has been in the past two seasons. I don't think MG can run the show by himself and it's been pretty obvious that GB and AK are both way too busy with their other shows.

[catrox14]

My bitterness largely now is that I watch for Oliver Queen and removing him, '"killing " him off at this stage is  not what I signed up for. I signed on for Oliver Queen to become the Green Arrow and call me crazy but I would like that the show to remain focused on that character in 23 of 23 episodes.

Edited January 13, 2015 by MostlyC

[TanyaKay]

 

Would it be asking too much to Arrow people to actually invest in a set of a lab or at least make Ray’s office look more lab type. Right now, it looks like there are some tools and wires haphazardly strewn around a glass top table. If Dr. Ray Palmer is really that kick ass science wonder boy - particle physicist and electrical engineer rolled in one - then he should have an appropriately equipped lab with proper safety measures. This glass office is a disaster waiting to happen. ... if Felicity meets an accident in that office, that will be another reason for fans of the show to hate him.

I am bitter about this kind of disrespect for science.

[Luckylyn]

I've decided to take a break from watching Arrow for the next couple of episodes because I just don't want to deal with an expanded Laurel role at Oliver's expense.  If I had confidence that Oliver's absence would lead to interesting developments for Diggle, Felicity, and Thea I would give it a chance but I'm worried that it's going to be all about Laurel.  I've reached my limit with the character.  Once the writers killed Sara to push Laurel's story and had her keep it a secret from Quentin, she has been FF material for me. I will never understand killing Sara when they could have had her kidnapped or some other twist leading Laurel to go vigilante.   This show was a favorite and now it's become almost a chore.  I've been hanging on for the talented actors and the characters I've become attached to, but I'm very worried about the future of this show.  I feel there's a focus on Laurel who I have no patience for anymore.  I kept waiting for her to be a better character, and it never happened.  I want to make it clear I blame the writers for my distaste for Laurel and not KC.  I worry that Arrow has become a spinoff machine and that they are more concerned about launching new heroes than giving the already established characters good development.   Oliver, Felicity and Diggle's popularity shouldn't just be used to promote writer favorites at the expense of the characters I care about.  I watch for Team Arrow (Oliver, Felicity, Diggle) and because I have a major soft spot for John Barrowman who has been ridiculously underused since being promoted to regular.  I was so looking forward to Thea's story as well, but they took her agency away.  They are becoming like Torchwood with the lack of imagination leading to death being the only way they can think of to bring drama and push characters' stories forward.  I'm particularly concerned that women keep getting fridged.  It's become so redundant.  Whatever trust I had with the writers in Seasons 1 and 2 has been eroded.  Arrow should be about Arrow and his partners.  So, since Oliver's gone, I'm gone.  I'll stop cancelling dvr recordings of the show when Oliver returns.  I don't want to add to the show's ratings with my dvr in episodes that exclude the hero the show is supposed to be about to promote a character I don't have interest in anymore or help the next spinoff.

[writersblock51]

I've been away from prev.tv for most of the hiatus but now with the TCA and the latest interviews, I've been catching up on posts in various threads.

 

There's very little that I'm looking forward to in the next 4 episodes because I'm already turned off by most of what I'm expecting to be on. The show baffles me.

 

In no particular order, the list of things that I'm very bitter about:

 

1) the waffling about just how much Laurel's story will feature while Oliver is gone.  I get why the EPs are loath to say that Laurel wil be front and center because they KNOW that she's not as popular as the rest of the cast. But it's disingenuous to pitch the upcoming episodes as something they aren't.  Viewers will figure it out. And if they don't like what they see, they'll tune out.  I know the EPs will stretch things to minimize their risk - I don't like being lied to.  But MG's Tumblr adventures did enlighten us, finally, that KC will indeed be front and center.  So my bitter self will NOT be watching. Good to know but now I'm bitter that there's at least 3 episodes this season that are being devoted to a character & arc that I dislike intensely to the exclusion of the other parts which I want to see more of

 

2) Laurel's costume. Edward Scissorhands resemblence aside, why are there buckles on the INSIDE of her legs??  How is that a smart design feature?!?!?!  Buckles get caught on things. If she moves effortlessly, then the costume is even more unbelievable.

 

3) Thea's storyline getting backburnered. OK, not completely so but I did think it would be a more meaty than it's been so far.  I'd much rather have seen more of Thea, Malcolm and Oliver than Laurel.  Thea and Malcolm's adventures, such as they are, play directly into what Oliver ended up doing.  I don't think we needed to see Thea shoot Sara sooner than we did but we could have seen more of her and Malcolm's interactions throughout. I even would have liked to see Thea and Roy more. 

 

4) I was very annoyed and even concerned that MG doesn't know what constitutes 'stalking.'  He seems to think it's relegated to personal relationships only, not professional ones. His attitude explains a lot of the inappropriate behavior that Ray had so far this season

 

5) the very blatant imbalance of the Arrow and Flash panelists at the TCA.  My goodness, if ever there was a red flag about what's still unsettling about the various mediums in the comic book industry, that panel exempllfied it. GB's comments after ward, while decent that he took ownership of the panel selection, seemed more about getting reamed about the choices than understanding why the panel felt so off in the first place.  He and the other EPs AND the CW as well as DC were getting heat about it as early as last Friday, when the panelists were announced.  Changes could have been made to include some of the actresses.  Instead, the title of the panel was changed, creating an awkward situation for David Ramsey.  I hope things are fixed for Paley Fest in March

 

6) The overall movement away from what was working as the show's strengths. That is: Team Arrow, Oliver and Feliclty, Diggle & his brother (HIVE, ARGUS). Throw in a solid story for Thea, finally, and there was so much that could have been happening so far this season. But those things have been broken up, backburnered or pushed off for Season 4.

 

7) Sara's death. Quentin still not being told the truth. Dinah letting that continue. Laurel not doing a thing to find Sara's killer. Laurel's reasons, and she flips among them, depending on who she's talking to, for not telling Quentin. Just everything about this is so AWFUL that it removes any chance that I will be rooting for Laurel to become Black Canary. Because it feels like so much screen time was wasted on Sara only to have her dismissed so coldly JUST so that Laurel could become BC. It's terrible in every way to me.

 

8) Underwhelming Ra's.  Maybe there will be more to it but I wasn't impressed whatsoever until the fight scene. I would have been even MORE impressed if I hadn't been so aware of his Matt Nable's stunt double in many of the shots. That's a first with the stunt team, in my opinion. I've never been that aware of the stunt doubles until that scene.

 

9) Still too Nolan-eseque in tone.  Oliver Queen has never been, nor should he be, Batman or Bruce Wayne. Oliver has shown that his relationships are a key part of who he is and why he's doing what he's doing. But the constant regression to lonely brooding Oliver is wearing thin. I don't want unicorns and rainbows on the show but the soul crushing manpain has to stop. Or be more balanced with the humor and humanity that has made so many scenes and episodes more compelling.

 

10) Still too tied to the comics - but only under some circumstances.  I say this as someone with decades of comic book love under my belt. But the show must treat it's ties to canon carefully. I think this remains their problem with not only Laurel but also their overall attitude of 'what makes a hero' or a villain.  Moira turned out to be one of the most layered characters on the show who could be both fiercely loving or fatally dangerous. The show created that character - and she worked beautifully in the confines of the show.  Felicity, Diggle and Sara are TV creations that have - for the most part - been handled very well on the show. Felicity is nothing like her minor comic book chharacter, not surprising since she was intended to only be a 1 shot Easter Egg in Season 1. But the show would be so vastly different without them. So for the show to then have to try to fit Laurel into this landscape, because of a pre-determined (even before the pilot, apparently) comic book fate, is a dissservice, I think to the show.  

 

11) Hyping the Oliver free episodes as among 'the best ever.' Just NO. Stop that. And stop expecting SA to hype these eps as well. That's insensitive and ridiculous.

 

12) Naming Heroes. I do not understand how Laurel's journey takes her from some basic martial arts and gun experience to the fully named Black Canary when Oliver, 3 years home, is still just Arrow.   We've been told that the 2nd version of the heroes more closely resemble their comic book origins. We've also been told that the name does matter - Oliver is still earning the 'Green.'  How can that be, though? What does Oliver need to do on this show to get the full name? I'd be fine if he got it in the final season. But that's shot to hell now with Laurel getting the Black Canary moniker.

 

This is the inconsistent and baffling crap that bugs me about this show.

[KirkB]

I can deal with pretty much anything the EP's throw at me so long as they are straight forward and consistent about it. If you say you're going to do it then do it, or else don't say it. Don't take back or retcon or "What I meant was..." because that kind of thing drives me nuts. Just own it. "We're going to make get rid of Oliver for a few episodes and focus on Laurel." Full stop. I don't have to like it but at least I'd know where I stand. They don't have to answer questions or give away secrets. If you don't want to spoil something or you don't like the question, just don't answer it.  

Edited January 15, 2015 by KirkB

[BunsenBurner]

I personally think that the buckles on the legs of the BC costume are to give the legs bulk(definition) so that the stunt double won't be so obvious.

[writersblock51]

I think that's why they're on it, too but I don't understand having that much on the inside of the legs - stick that stuff on the front, back or outside

[Menrva]

It's a poorly designed concept all around, from the buckles to the hair color to the black lipstick.

They should have gone more golden blonde with her hair, to better suit KC's skin tones. I would have gone with a more nude color lipgloss, rather than that harsh dark tone and played up her eyes under the mask. The shiny black doesn't do it for me either; it's too close to Edward Scissorhands/Catwoman from Tim Burton's Batman Returns. I wish they'd stuck closer to CL's Canary jacket and done something with the bodysuit underneath. There were a lot of nice little details on CL's costume, like the diamond lattice stitching on the pants that echoed the infamous fishnet stockings. I don't know why they couldn't have done something along those lines, without copying Sara's look exactly. The buckles look silly and serve no purpose. It's lazy and a failure of imagination. It reminds me of something I read about William Gibson (he wrote Neuromancer and The Difference Engine, perhaps the seminal work of steampunk fiction) about why he wasn't fond of the steampunk look. He hated how people would slap some gears and clock parts onto something and say, "Look, it's steampunk!" He thought if you're going to add gears, they should actually do something. They weren't decoration; they should have a purpose.

I guess the buckles are appropriate for Laurel's costume then…

[calliope1975]

The shiny black doesn't do it for me either; it's too close to Edward Scissorhands/Catwoman from Tim Burton's Batman Returns. 

 

Buckles aside, the shininess is what makes it so bad for me. If it had been matte, I think it would look better. It's veering into cheap dominatrix category. 

[Chaser]

I'm getting really annoyed about all 

the great Laurel interactions we have coming up. Diggle and Felicity? Sure, BUT WAIT FOR THE LAUREL AND DIGGLE. Thea and Felicity? At some point. BUT HEY LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT LAUREL AND FELICITY.

 

[jay741982]

I'm still so fucking bitter that this show won't focus on Diggle Thea and Felicity in Oliver's Absence instead focusing on a woman who doesn't deserve BC one fucking bit

[KirkB]

I'd rather watch an episode of Quentin in the office signing arrest warrants than Laurel in her Sara-suit.

Edited January 15, 2015 by KirkB

[Genki]

In the wake of the Season 4 renewal, I think MG is no longer trying to hide the Laurel-ness of the upcoming episodes. Not sure whether it is a good or a bad thing.

[pivot]

It sure looks like they are re-positioning Arrow as an ensemble superhero show which is stupid IMO.

[jay741982]

I'd rather watch an episode of Quentin in the office signing arrest warrants than Laurel in her Sara-suit.

So angry that she gets BC HANDED to her when she don't deserve it one Goddamn bit

It sure looks like they are re-positioning Arrow as an ensemble superhero show which is stupid IMO.

it would be Extremely stupid from what I hear Diggle and Felicity are like the most popular charcters besides Oliver

[calliope1975]

Hey Marc! I love Arrow and am a huge fan of the show. Thanks for writing such strong women! Speaking of them... Will we see the women of Arrow working more closely together in the second half of the season? Also, will we get any Laurel and Ray interactions? I think that would be an interesting dynamic. Thanks!

We’ve got some really nice women working together scenes coming up.  There’s a great one between Felicity and Laurel and then another between Laurel and… oh, that would be telling…

 

 

It's Thea, right? What other women are on the show? Nyssa? When you kill off most of the women, it really narrows the choices down, Marc.

[Chaser]

It actually could be Nyssa based off of that KC interview.

 

Point still made though

Edited January 15, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[jay741982]

It's crazy how MG running the show by himself has dampened my enthusiasm for this show. The spoilers just don't sound that good at all. Too much Ray and Laurel. Ensuring Ray only has scenes with Felicity. Possibly isolating Felicity from TA. Possible gross Raylicity. God I wish AK and GB weren't so busy with The Flash.

[Happy Harpy]

The more it goes, the more I fear that the show jumped the shark when Oliver "died".

 

First, because it's a stunt. You know that they won't kill the main character of a successful show (at least it's a success for its network) unless there are onset/money/legal/wanting out troubles with the actor. Not the case here. No matter how well-acted it was, it comes off as a ploy. When death becomes a plot device, and a regular one at that, it loses impact.

 

Second, because it means imo that the writers rush headlong into a spiral of doom and gloom.They killed all but one member of Oliver's family, his two best friends (Tommy and Sara the Black Canary) two of his love interests (Shado and Sara Lance). He lost his money and his company to a guy who also aims for the woman Oliver loves, he lost his sister to her evil bio-dad. Oh, and then he "died", away fromTeam Arrow.

The writers want more shock, they want more impact...hey, there are other ways than death and despair to achieve it. Moreover, how do you top your main character dying? You can't, unless he actually stays dead. *Jinx*

 

Third, because it usually means reset and unfortunately, often through other cheap ploys like the hero comes back with amnesia, as a villain and so on. But anyway, I don't feel that Arrow needed a reset. I even don't feel that the show is truly "set" yet. I didn't have enough Team Arrow fighting crime episodes to feel that there was a routine about it or that things needed to be shaken. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

Ironically, it reminds me of Moonlighting when, to accommodate C.Shepherd and B.Willis, the writers expanded sidekick/comic relief Agnes DiPesto and Herbert Viola's roles. They ended front and center and the show sank mainly IIRC because the audience didn't see David and Maddie anymore. This is the real Moonlighting curse.

I feel that's exactly what Arrow's TPTB set to happen. Except that they didn't have to place their main character (and his fan favorite teammates) on the backburner in order to accommodate new/supporting characters. As far as I know, no one is pregnant with twins, no one is filming Die Hard, no one hates each other's guts so much they refuse to be in the same scene. So my bitterness is reaching the maximum level.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[chaos is welcome]

So bitter that everything I read makes my stomach sink. Even more bitter that I recommended this show to people and they are excited for upcoming eps. Will have to see if they will still be friends with me after the horrible stuff that's coming our way.  And I don't see how it won't be horrible.  I don't want to see Felicity grieve and then shut herself off with Ray, but that's what we're going to be.

I don't want to see Buckles suddenly get all skilled, but that's what we're going to get. I will never stop being bitter about the way they are going to do this. And no MATTER WHAT MG SAYS, I don't need to see it to know its going to be horrible.

I am bitter that whoever tumblr'd MG thanked him for writing such strong women.  I mean, they do write strong women, they just kill them off.  So, thanks, but no thanks.

I miss Celina Jade and Caity Lotz from this cast so bad.  And Susanna Thompson. 

Its frustrating that Felicity/Thea has been pushed back.

I don't want superheros-r-us.  I want a show grounded in reality, which is NOT EVERYONE SHOULD GET A MASK.  It has to be earned, and it hasn't been.

I am still horribly bitter that they spent so much time on Sara, they skipped over Roy's origin, and that they are botching Sara's origin more.

I am bitter that O/F interactions are being used to push other products, and that we have to buy them/tune in if we want to see what we should get to see on the show (Vixen and 2.5 comics).

 

Like HappyHarpy said, bitterness is about maxed out. Until I read another spoiler, then it reaches new levels.

Edited January 16, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[tv echo]

I do not understand how Laurel's journey takes her from some basic martial arts and gun experience to the fully named Black Canary when Oliver, 3 years home, is still just Arrow.

It's worse than that.  We haven't seen Laurel take any martial arts lessons or firearms training (or police baton training).  She's only shown some basic self defense skills and taken some boxing lessons.

[SonofaBiscuit]

So bitter that everything I read makes my stomach sink. Even more bitter that I recommended this show to people and they are excited for upcoming eps. Will have to see if they will still be friends with me after the horrible stuff that's coming our way.  

 

Arrow, ruining friendships since 2014 :)  I guess I'm lucky in that I can't even get people to watch this show.  They'd probably hate me right about now.

[chaos is welcome]

I call media stunt with the release of the 2.23 kiss.

Eps: oh shit, no one is eating the bagels in buckle suits. Quick, quick, distract them with something pretty.

No.

[Morrigan2575]

Pretty sure MG is on Tumblr for damage control of the TCA crap.

[statsgirl]

I think he likes the adoration and the ability to write out longer replies, like the "Oliver tells Laurel he's leaving" scenario.

 

I agree, the release of the clip at this time has fishy all over it. But it sure worked.

[apinknightmare]

What do you guys think the CW planted a troll to ask him if he'd release the kiss if the fandom got a WW trend? 

[jay741982]

LOL the sad thing is that it's very possible a lot of fans might accept Laurel as BC as long as Olicity sails on and is Endgame.

[Morrigan2575]

What do you guys think the CW planted a troll to ask him if he'd release the kiss if the fandom got a WW trend?

I know someone who actually questioned just that. It would be a really smart move...which is why I figure this is legit ;-) Edited January 17, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

LOL the sad thing is that it's very possible a lot of fans might accept Laurel as BC as long as Olicity sails on and is Endgame.

 

I think fans will accept Laurel as BC regardless. I think after the episode airs, the people who were excited about Laurel becoming BC will be excited, the people who didn't want it won't like it, and some people in the middle will be swayed one way and some the other. But I do think them pursuing Olicity in this season is definitely to even out the scales of pushing forward with an unpopular storytelling decision. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

What do you guys think the CW planted a troll to ask him if he'd release the kiss if the fandom got a WW trend? 

 

Worldwide trends are nothing new for the Olicity fandom, though. It trends regularly (pretty much every Wednesday at 4 p.m. EST) so why this time? I was thinking about this last night (because I'm a cynic) but the whole thing was all about Olicity. Which really doesn't need a lot of promotion right now. There are other aspects of the show that need the buzz more. Get the fans excited so they'll watch 3x10? They know they're not going to get their Olicity moments (except for the reaction to Oliver's death).

Edited January 17, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[jay741982]

Worldwide trends are nothing new for the Olicity fandom, though. It trends regularly (pretty much every Wednesday at 4 p.m. EST) so why this time? I was thinking about this last night (because I'm a cynic) but the whole thing was all about Olicity. Which really doesn't need a lot of promotion right now. There are other aspects of the show that need the buzz more. Get the fans excited so they'll watch 3x10? They know they're not going to get their Olicity moments (except for the reaction to Oliver's death).

I think some of it is Olicity is more popular than Laurel and Ray who are shoved to the forefront when Oliver's "Death" should have the focus on his best friend, Sister, and the woman he loves who loves him. I know I'd rather see focus on Felicity Thea and Diggle not see Felicity play second fiddle to a Newbie and Laurel being Instacanary

[wonderwall]

So I spent the better part of the last hour accumulating my thoughts on why Season 3 hasn't been that great. I have to say, it was very cathartic. And I thought that I would share. Beware this will be really long. What can I say? I had time to spare and I just wanted to do it. Judge me all you want :p But for real, it's really cathartic and made me more calm about the show in the sense that I have very low expectations for it now. 

 

Sara's death and how it was handled:

 

The whole death was so contrived, so badly handled. Not only was the death scene terribly handled, but everything regarding her death was terribly handled. I get that the writers wanted to meld seasons 1 and 2 together by having that mystery and that overarching villain, but it didn't work. What was meant to be a compelling mystery, became something that was brushed aside from episodes 3,5-8 and then revisited again in the finale. There was no sense of urgency to find Sara’s killer for the majority of the season. Why? Because Sara was already dead. There was nothing they could do about it. So when there’s no sense of urgency, it made me wonder why I even cared about the killer? It’s not like knowing who it was would change anything.

 

The episodes that did focus on capturing Sara’s killer were just terrible. At one point it got frustrating because all of their leads would end up being dead ends and it would feel like nothing’s happening, that progress wasn’t being made. It was just annoying.

 

Now taking a few steps back, while the effects of Sara’s death was poorly handled, the actual death was probably worse. They killed Sara in less than a minute. They made her fall on a dumpster (and it could’ve easily been a car) and then put her body in a fridge. It was disgusting. Then the writers wanted us to believe that Laurel could actually carry Sara from wherever they were to the foundry? Are they serious?! Just by doing that took us out of the episode because it made us wonder, how the hell did she carry her all the way there and put her on the table? It was just sloppy writing and terribly handled.

 

Laurel's entire arc:

 

A brief history on how I felt about Laurel. I was okay with her in season 1. Nothing spectacular. Then I started to really hate her in season 2 when her arc was just a mess, even though I understand why she went through what she did. Now this season I feel nothing for her. I watch this show in spite of Laurel. And it’s a shame because I was expecting good things for Laurel after before the premier. Hell, I even liked her in The Calm. 

 

Her arc this season is just a huge mess. No. Not this season, her entire existence is a mess. I sort of blame Laurel for Sara’s death because if the writers stopped trying to make Laurel happen, I don’t think Sara would’ve died another time. I know it’s unfair, but that’s just how I see it. Trust me when I say I wish I didn’t. I made this point before and I’ll make it again. Take Laurel out of the narrative of any of the seasons, all else equal, what would change? Not much except I feel like the characters would’ve been happier. Tommy wouldn’t have died trying to save Laurel (even though I’m sure the writers would’ve tried to find a different way to kill him), Quentin would know about Sara’s death and would’ve made his peace with her, Quentin wouldn’t have to worry about Laurel going out trying to beat people up, Oliver wouldn’t have to worry about her either because I feel like 99% of the time she just gets on his nerve… It’s baffling how Laurel is such a non-entity yet she’s known to be the female lead.

 

Anyways, back to her arc. Before season 3, I thought Laurel was a character with a few layers (granted, her characterization was a bit sketchy, but she still had a few layers to her). She was dynamic and she wasn’t flat. But this season they reduced her character into one that is either angry, melancholy and nothing in between. And then I read interviews from Katie Cassidy where she says that Laurel has a big heart, she’s kind, strong, smart, and a warrior and I just don’t see it? When did Laurel show her big heart this season? When she almost murdered a man who didn’t kill Sara? Or when she was barking orders at Team Arrow without actually having a conversation with them? How has she shown her intelligence? Because all I’ve seen is Laurel making one dumb decision after another. And her biggest, most stupid decision was not telling Quentin. And her excuse is just lame and thin and selfish and cowardly. Laurel isn’t a strong person. She’s not strong physically (because I’m pretty sure Thea could whoop her ass any day), she’s not strong mentally because of the piss poor decisions she’s made recently, and she’s not strong emotionally, because her emotions apparently make her decisions for her. So yeah, Laurel’s just a mess as a character.

 

While I expected Laurel to be an integral part in figuring out Sara’s killer, she was actually the most useless person in this process. She said she had a fire in her, that she wanted to seek vengeance, what in the world did she do to find Sara’s killer? She did nothing. She didn’t try to help Felicity by taking evidence to the forensics department; we didn’t even see her put forth any effort into trying to find her killer. I mean, she tried for an episode then gave up and took boxing lessons.

 

With what I’ve previously stated, it makes it laughable to me that someone like Laurel could become a superhero/vigilante. First, I don’t understand what her motivation is. What is it that made her want to go outside the law to take down criminals? She was perfectly successful as a lawyer when Oliver caught them and she cooked them. Her motivation just doesn’t make sense to me because if Laurel does it to honor Sara, it wouldn’t make sense because Sara wouldn’t want that life for Laurel. She would be vehemently against it. How can you honor someone by doing exactly the opposite of what they would’ve wanted? Second, there’s the logistics of it all. How can Laurel be a fighter when she works for the DA during the day (and being a lawyer isn’t a 9-5 job. It requires a lot of hard work and a huge chunk of  your life. I would know, I married a lawyer)? How does she find time to train and become a seasoned fighter? Add to the fact that she’s 30 years old and can’t dedicate as much time as Sara/Oliver/Thea/Roy could when they trained, how in the world is it believable that she can kick as much ass as either of them? I just feel like her becoming a vigilante is her just trading one addiction for another. That’s not what I’d call growth.

 

Now instead of fixing her character, giving her a distinct personality and characteristics, making her grow and THEN make her BC, the writers decide to put a band aid on Laurel by making her BC ASAP. I think that, that was completely the wrong thing to do. The writers aren’t fixing Laurel, they’re essentially building up BC on a rocky foundation that is Laurel’s character. Now when someone asked Marc Guggenheim to give them 3 adjectives to describe Laurel’s journey in the second part of this season, all he could say was “black canary, bitch!”. Now that’s worrying because Laurel IS NOT BC. BC is just a mask. What matters is the character underneath. The fact that he couldn’t come up with any adjectives means that BC is more important than Laurel which just isn’t right. While I hope that the next three episodes start to build Laurel back up as a CHARACTER and not a MASK, I’m not going to hold my breath. 

 

Thea and her utter nonsense:

 

One of the things I hated the most was the writers using Thea and taking away her agency just for the sake of plot and how her decisions made zero sense to me. I can’t believe that Thea would even consider choosing Malcolm over Oliver. Not even that, I can’t believe that she asked Oliver not to choose between him and Malcolm. Thea should choose Oliver hands down no questions asked. Because what in the world has Malcolm done? He’s a murderer, and deceitful and I just don’t understand why Thea would apparently follow him to the ends of the earth. I just don’t understand that connection because Thea is a grown ass woman who can run her own club but can’t make sound decisions regarding her private life? What the hell?!

 

Then the writers had to use Thea as a plot device so Oliver could ‘die’ which is equally as offensive to the character that made little sense in the first place. It’s just, what are they doing with Thea? She’s just been such a tough character to like this season because I can’t connect with her whatsoever. This and the fact that they had to stick that douchey DJ guy on her? It made her arc all the more unpalatable.

 

Diggle/Felicity don't interact as much:

 

They built such a beautiful friendship in season 2. I just hate how it feels like they've fallen by the wayside. I was irked when Digg and Felicity had a talk in her office. I feel like Digg has been siding with Oliver way more. I sometimes wish I could see him support Felicity for once. I miss their interactions. I miss the way the show would show their importance to one another, I miss Digg having Felicity’s back, making sure she’s okay. I miss Felicity worrying about Digg, and joking around with him. I just miss it. It’s a shame that the writers haven’t capitalized on what this amazing friendship because their interactions could’ve lightened up the mood of the show.

 

Lack of Team Arrow:

 

One of the strongest things about the show is Team Arrow. So why the hell haven't we been getting any moments? It feels like every time they're together, Oliver/Diggle seem to get along but with Felicity all they seem to do is order her around. Her appearances with the team have essentially been reduced to her just getting information through hacking and nothing more. I don’t even know if that makes sense, hopefully it does.

 

Ray Palmer:

 

I was so looking forward to Ray Palmer. I was hoping he’d just be more than an obstacle for Oliver/Felicity but I was proven wrong. I wanted to like Ray, but his character has proven to be problematic and just not enjoyable for me.

 

I'm surprised by how a lot of people like him from what I've seen outside of tumblr. Ray Palmer is just not a very pleasant person. He’s forceful, he doesn’t know the meaning of boundaries, he’s inappropriate, he’s creepy, he’s just everything that a woman should be concerned about in a man if this was the real world. Just because Ray is very socially constipated doesn’t mean that it gives him a free pass to Ping someone’s phone when they don’t want to be found for his own personal gain. It’s just wrong. And his character is just so gross that he irks me every time he’s on screen.

 

I hate how his arc is taking screen time from more important things. I just wonder if he was never on the show, would that mean we would’ve gotten more Team Arrow moments? Would Digg/Felicity have more interactions? Would the writing be tighter? I just hate that we have to waste our time with an origin story that isn’t very significant.

 

Oliver/Felicity:

 

While I believe the writers handled their relationship extremely well, I’m bitter about the fact that we will never see their relationship grow from being partners to being more than partners .I wanted to see how Oliver got from episode 2x23 to 3x01 with regards to his feelings for Felicity. I wanted to see them grow closer romantically, to see them flirt, to see them affect one another. This is why I think in The Calm they rushed Oliver and Felicity. But they learned their lesson and pulled back a bit. I always loved their subtlety. And I’m glad the writers brought it back in the last two episodes of the season.

 

Roy:

 

He needs to stop flipping. God it’s becoming annoying.

 

The writing/plot:

 

I feel like the season has been extremely scattered so far. Instead of making who killed Sara the central plot that weaved through every episode, seamlessly tying the first half of the season together, the writers dropped the arc not knowing how to handle it and then brought it back up in the finale. Then there is the fact that there’s just so much going on. The whodunit, Laurel’s training, Felicity getting a life outside of Arrow, Oliver’s personal growth, Thea training, Roy and him dealing with killing a cop (which they handled poorly), Ted Grant, Ray Palmer and his origin story, Quentin and how he’s dealing with not seeing Sara and Laurel’s lies, not to mention the villains of the week.

 

The fact that the writers have been juggling so much means that there will be inevitable plot holes. And there have been a lot of them this season. For example, in episode 4 Ra’s didn’t care about who killed Sara. But then suddenly in episode 9 he cares? When did this development happen?

 

Just juggling so much leads to weak writing which is why they’re still failing Laurel, why they are failing Thea, why Ray Palmer is just turning out to be creepy instead of charming, why finding Sara’s killer was just a pain to watch, why the end result of the whole whodunit was really contrived and just not great… If they focused on less, I feel like this season would’ve been better and tighter.

 

Sorry for the length. I just really like to write out all my thoughts of certain television shows I love.

[NumberCruncher]

Very eloquently stated, wonderwall. Here's what I find funny about what you just wrote...you've summed up that nearly everything can be blamed on the showrunners trying to shove so many stories and characters at us, yet ironically, so many S3 episodes have felt like filler because nothing signifcant really happened after the premiere. Oliver still brooded and acted self-sacrificing ala S1 and S2. Malcolm was still a manipulative bastard. Laurel was fluctuating between raging and moping. Thea wound up serving drinks at Verdant. Ray acted as creepy and controlling as when we first met him. Felicity and Diggle got a teeny bit of development, but nothing that moved the plot of the show in any significant way.

All in all, in their quest to make the show full of exciting twists and turns over the past 9 episodes, they show hasn't really gone anywhere. That takes serious skill, LOL.

Edited January 17, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[tv echo]

Bravo, wonderwall!  When I finished reading your post, I wanted to stand up and applaud.

 

The EPs are juggling too many projects - spinoff TV shows, companion comics, digital comic spinoffs, etc.  They just seem more interested in expanding their piece of the DC universe pie.

Edited January 19, 2015 by tv echo

[chaos is welcome]

YES, TV Echo, and I think that's why they insist on having the Flarrow panels everywhere instead of just Flash or Arrow--they are far more interested in garnering attention for the universe than just Arrow, and Arrow seems, at least to me, to be at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of who gets attention. Which is why we end up with Arrow character issues being addressed more on the Flash, 2.5, and Vixen then in the actual show.  When the relationships of the characters lead to the success/positive feedback for the show in the first place, making everything else possible.  Bitter bitter bitter bitter. 

 

Also, cause it hasn't been mentioned in awhile, bitter Quentin still doesn't know, and everyones become so accepting of it that I don't even think Guggie has been asked about it on Tumblr (or he refuses to answer). Tell the man his daughter is dead. 

[wonderwall]

 

“You’re doing something wrong if certain characters have to die to make other characters interesting.” - Norman Reedus

I really want to ask Marc Guggenheim if he agrees and if so, why so many people on the show died to further along Oliver arc as well as make Laurel interesting (even though she still really isn't). 

[looptab]

With the approaching rise of Laurel Lance as Black Canary, I've been asking myself if they truly considered all the ramifications of killing Sara to let this happen. Aside from all the things we already said about it, the thing is that Sara had a potentially unlimited(illimitated is definitely not a word :/)  story value, since her years with the League of Assassins were mostly shrouded in mistery, and they could have pulled out anything from that hat, in terms of enemies, big bads and whatnot. But now Sara is dead, and Laurel is becoming BC. So what now? What happens after that? She is going to face villain of the week after villain of the week, I suppose. Didn't they say they hated those?? 

I'm really curious to see how they come out from this hole they dug themselves into.

Edited January 20, 2015 by looptab

[loki567]

I'm going to be curious what's MG's next move when Laurel is still hated even after becoming Black Canary. Most of Arrow's cast and crew has seemingly gone into this bubble of, "they only don't like her because she's not the Canary yet," so I wonder what they're going to do when that bubble bursts. They're officially out of excuses at that point. 

Edited January 20, 2015 by loki567