OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

[KingOfHearts]

Finally got to watch Into the Woods. I've never wanted Once to have a musical episode more than now. Something I appreciated was that it satirized fairy tales and, for the most part, didn't take itself seriously. It was an extremely accurate portrayal of Grimm's in terms of nuances, feel and carefree attitude toward gruesome details. I might be wrong in comparing it to Once because it's a movie-musical against a TV show drama, but it certainly held better in some of the areas Once is weak in.

 

There was a small scene toward the end showing Red Riding Hood debating the morality of killing the giantess. She implied her mother taught not to do such things and to be good. This sounded an awful lot like Snow White's dilemma with killing Cora. This movie definitely handled the outcome better, imo. Really enjoyed Meryl Streep as the witch. Her death scene was just great. Take notes, Rumple!

Edited January 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Something I appreciated was that it satirized fairy tales and, for the most part, didn't take itself seriously.

 

Number one problem with the geniuses behind Once.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Number one problem with the geniuses behind Once.

Sorry I don't understand. Are you saying the Once writers take it seriously or they don't? I think they want viewers to take it seriously when it's really too nonsensical. 

Edited January 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Sorry I don't understand. Are you saying the Once writers take it seriously or they don't? I think they want viewers to take it seriously when it's really too nonsensical.

 

I think they take it and themselves too seriously.  

[retrograde]

I enjoy Once's ridiculousness and I don't think it would work if they were winking at the camera all the time. 

[Shanna Marie]

I liked the "Love" song in Robin Hood when I was a kid, but I liked singing, and that was the one good singing song for a girl in that movie. In addition to all my Disney records, I had tons of Broadway stuff, so I had a high tolerance for musical numbers and romantic ballads.

 

I really, really wanted Lady Cluck to show up in Storybrooke to be Marian's BFF/advocate.

[retrograde]

Oh man, I had forgotten how much I hated that song as a kid. I disliked all the song portions of Disney films until Aladdin came along, I think (I mean, there was a spectrum -- I loathed "Once Upon a Dream" in Sleeping Beauty, but tolerated the ones in the Little Mermaid [some of which I now like as an adult]). 

 

But yes, Galavant definitely reminds me of Disney's Robin Hood and especially Prince John, which is why I know I would have loved it and the King Richard character as a kid. 

[daxx]

Tried Galavant, totally not my thing. Will have to find another way to while away the hiatus.

[HoodlumSheep]

Tried Galavant, totally not my thing. Will have to find another way to while away the hiatus.

I can't remember, were you one of the dozen (bit of an exaggeration) who watched Wonderland? If not, you could give that a shot.

And yes, I'm one of the people who will always recommend watching Wonderland (the WHOLE way through).

King Richard does remind be of Prince John from Robin Hood! All he needs to do is suck his thumb! Personally, I'm holding out for the rooster narrator to show up and start singing.

Galavant and co. galavanting around everywhere on a journey makes me want Once to go back to the EF. I'm rather torn. Once was set up as a fairy tale/modern(ish) world mash up, with the main character herself having grown up in the real world. Once has kinda shifted away from that though (or at least they don't seem to focus on the whole "fish out of the water" scenario as much). I loved What we got with Emma in 2a and the 3b finale (she was a total fish out of water).

I sometimes wish we could get another half season of Emma and co. Galavanting around the EF, going on quests. Yet, at the same time, I don't know if I want them to completely throw away Once's original premise.

[YaddaYadda]

Galavant and their GoT references.  Yesterday there was a mention of Castle Black.  

 

Hard as I tried, I'm not a huge fan of the Enchanted Forest, I sort of find it a bit dreary.  I'm tired of the fairybacks and the first half of season 2 in the EF that was completely destroyed by the curse was just depressing.

[Shanna Marie]

I haven't been liking Galavant, but I did flip by it last night for the pirate bit. That was freaking hilarious with Hugh Bonneville and this group of inept pirates who weren't pirates of the sea but by the sea. I haven't laughed so hard in a while.

Oh gosh, the pirates with their sustainable agriculture and organic pastries and interest in girl supplies were cracking me up big time, but then the whole thing was made even funnier by the fact that Downton Abbey was on immediately afterward on PBS, so then I got to spend that whole episode with the mental image of Robert in a pirate outfit. Come to think of it, Hugh Bonneville played a pirate on Doctor Who, so perhaps he's been typecast, Downton Abbey aside.

[daxx]

I watched Wonderland during its first run, slow beginning but it ended nicely.

[OnceUponAJen]

Oh gosh, the pirates with their sustainable agriculture and organic pastries and interest in girl supplies were cracking me up big time, but then the whole thing was made even funnier by the fact that Downton Abbey was on immediately afterward on PBS, so then I got to spend that whole episode with the mental image of Robert in a pirate outfit. Come to think of it, Hugh Bonneville played a pirate on Doctor Who, so perhaps he's been typecast, Downton Abbey aside.

OK.....now I have to go back and watch the rest of Galavant Ep 2! I only got halfway through.

ETA: Got a kick out of seeing Hugh Bonneville as the pirate king. Maybe this show will grow on me?

Edited January 16, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Shanna Marie]

First, given the discussions we've had in various threads of the way they use Beauty and the Beast on this show, I thought that this "If Beauty and the Beast Were Honest" cartoon was rather amusing.

 

Second, another fairytale-related reading recommendation (I guess I'm in a mood, but really, this is what I'm finding on the library's "new books" shelf): Bitter Greens, by Kate Forsyth. It's a story (well, stories) within a story about the woman who first published the French version of the Rapunzel story, with the origin story of the tale woven into it. I guess you could call it historical magical realism. The main character -- the woman who wrote Rapunzel -- really existed, and it seems like a lot of her exploits that are in the book were based on her life, but in this book the kind of folk magic (love charms, curses, etc.) that people did really does work, and I'm sure that the origin of the Rapunzel story was entirely fictional. Apparently there was an Italian version published some time before the French version, but no one has been able to tell how the French woman came to hear of it, and this book comes up with a story behind that.

 

Anyway, the framing story is about a French noblewoman/author who gets banished to a convent by Louis XIV after one court scandal too many. While there, an elderly nun befriends her, and while they work in the garden she tells the tale of a young girl taken from her parents and imprisoned in a tower by a witch. Woven into the framing story about life in the convent are flashbacks of this woman's life to that point, the story of the girl in the tower, and the story of the witch. I guess you could say it's very OUAT in structure in that way. Except the show's writers could learn a lesson or two about how a villain can be human and even somewhat sympathetic without pulling any punches about how wrong she is in what she's doing and about how to redeem a despicable person without making the good guys into wimps. And wow, did they waste the Rapunzel story on the show.

 

I found it a little slow to get into at the beginning when it's just about arriving at the convent and having a hard time adjusting, but once all the flashbacks get started it becomes really interesting.

[KAOS Agent]

I'm driving my mother from Minnesota to Phoenix and downloaded Alias Hook to listen to on the endless drive. My mother calls it a boring book and is less than amused that I'm listening to it. But I'm driving and it's either that or 80s on 8 on XM, so she'd rather listen to the book (she also slept for about six hours of the drive today, so it's not like she's hearing any of it anyway). It's an interesting story, but so far I find myself way more interested in the Hook background story than the Neverland stuff. I do appreciate the world building and that the rules associated with it are being adhered to.

[FurryFury]

I've just started playing Telltale's A Wolf Among Us (a video game prequel to Fables, which I haven't read because it's not my medium of choice, generally), and so far, it's awesome. I remember hearing something about either Adam and Eddy or ABC trying to make a Fables TV adaptation, failing and settling for Once, but I'm not sure about it. Anyway, it's really fun, and you can pretend it's an R-rated Once AU. Or switch Graham for Bigby, which would have been hilarious.

Edited January 23, 2015 by FurryFury

[Dianthus]

You'll be shocked, SHOCKED, to know that I just totally geeked out over Gal's dad (Yay!).

Edited January 26, 2015 by Dianthus

[ParadoxLost]

Delete this if its against the rules, but I was searching for something else and came across this.  ROFLMAO

 

 

So, I'm thinking we need a musical spell.

Edited January 26, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[legaleagle53]

Oh, now that's just wrong on so many levels -- but I love it!

[Writing Wrongs]

Live action Beauty and the Beast starring Emma Watson coming:

http://www.tvguide.com/news/emma-watson-beauty-and-the-beast/?rss=keywords

[Camera One]

Wow, Disney is really going all out on all the live action versions, aren't they.  Well, this is one that "Once" won't be able to jump on since they've already ruined it.

[Trini]

I'm actually quite surprised that it's taken Disney this long to do a live-action Beauty and the Beast movie.

[Camera One]

The "look" of the live-action Beast would be a challenge.  They can't make him too hideous, nor too fake-looking.  There's also the furniture and household objects like Lumiere, Cogsworth, etc.  I guess they could all be CGI.  I think inherently, that makes it more difficult to do than the traditional fairy tales like Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella.

[Trini]

It doesn't have to be a re-make of the animated film.

And it's looks like the French beat them to it anyway:

 

Edited January 27, 2015 by Trini

[Serena]

It doesn't have to be a re-make of the animated film.

It doesn't, but it will be. They're doing it with songs and everything.

[FurryFury]

Eh, never cared about this story. I think I'll pass on this one. But then, I rarely watch remakes at all.

[Shanna Marie]

Web surfing while waiting for a conference call to start, I ran across this post on life lessons learned from Disney villains. I'm almost afraid to think of the life lessons learned from the villains of this show.

 

Meanwhile, I finally saw Mirror, Mirror when it was on TV Saturday night (and they ran the same Once promo over and over again. They probably need to start freshening that up a bit), and while in many ways it was a hot mess and utterly insane, I thought they were actually pretty clever about subverting some of the fairy tale tropes. Actually, I think my favorite may have been a meta casting trope,

where it's a big surprise to reveal that a character played by Sean Bean is alive (instead of him dying near the climax, like in every other movie he's in).

I think Snow White becoming a bandit while on the run from the Evil Queen may be on its way to being a trope. Ah, but I miss our feisty bandit Snow.

 

And catching up OnDemand, there was an episode of The Librarians (so-so show, but fun when you have time to kill) in which fairy tales were coming to life in a small town. That made me realize just how badly they're neglecting the fairy tale origins of our show. It should matter that the waitress at the town diner is Red Riding Hood and the owner is her grandmother, or that the town counselor is Jiminy Cricket. Storybrooke feels like any other little town (with the occasional magical villain) rather than an enclave of fairy tale characters. Like, there should be a running feud between the three pigs and the wolf (all in human form), or the sheriffs should play rock, paper, scissors to determine who has to go haul Goldilocks away after her latest home invasion.

[coops]

The fairy tale origins of the show are certainly neglected and i too would have liked the show to focus on the reality of fairy tale characters living in our world. I once read a book called asbo fairy tales where sleeping beauty was a model but missed all her jobs because she had a hangover and slept in all the time, it was hilarious! When ouat started i thought the fairy tale characters stories would have some relevance to their lives in our world but sadly no.

One really good mini series I watched years ago was the 10th kingdom where some new yorkers get into the fairytale world. It was only ten episodes but the world building was by far superior to ouat. One major distinction was that the 10th kingdom was about the original fairytales not the disney cartoons. One of my major problems with once is that it cant decide between the disney tales and the original stories. Take the arrival of Cruella De Vil. Shes not a fairy tale character and while Im excited to see what they do with her it seems really jarring for her to be in the enchanted forest.

[jhlipton]

It doesn't have to be a re-make of the animated film.

And it's looks like the French beat them to it anyway:

 

Almost 70 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty_and_the_Beast_(1946_film)

[Curio]

I have no idea where to post this, but I think this might be the best thread for it. I'm currently listening to a podcast series called "The Worst Idea of All Time." It's basically just two guys who force themselves to watch the movie Grown Ups 2 every week for an entire year, and then they do a podcast about each viewing. (It's surprisingly funny if any of you are into podcasts.) I'm only at Week 17, but you can already tell they're going insane because the movie is just that bad.

 

How does this relate to Once Upon a Time you ask? Good question. The reason why this podcast made me think of Once is because their comments about the awfulness of that movie are basically the same arguments we have about this show. They'll say: "There are so many characters to keep track of, and the majority of them are completely useless." "They introduce one plot, and then completely abandon it for another totally random plot, and then we never hear about either plot again." "Whenever a scene is going bad, the writers just throw in a bunch of random characters and abruptly move on from the scene." "There is literally no coherent plot." "The writers can put anything they want on screen because they know millions of people will still watch it." "Some of these characters are so detestable, but we're still meant to root for them for some reason." "I think the writers only wrote half a script and decided to just work from that." "The more I watch, the worse my sanity becomes." 

 

What makes listening to this podcast so meta for me is the fact that they seem to be in so much pain watching the movie, but they force themselves to watch it each and every week, and then force themselves to do an analysis about it each week. Then it dawned on me -- that's exactly what I do with this show. Sometimes, it's so painful sitting through each episode, but for some inexplicable reason, I force myself to do it each week. At least for us, we don't have to watch Bleeding Through or Breaking Glass week after week.

 

So there you have it. I just managed to make a comparison between Once Upon a Time and Grown Ups 2. That is not a good thing, Adam & Eddy.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Curio

[FurryFury]

"The Wolf Among Us" inspired me to read "Fables", which I'm about 1/3 way through. I can't say I'm really in love with it, but it's an OK read. I can definitely see how it inspired Adam and Eddy, and I wouldn't mind seeing a proper TV adaptation a few years down the line (not on network TV, obviously). One good thing is it's very much not Disney. I'm kinda sick of Once shoving Disney down our throats every half-season. Maybe because I don't have the same love for these movies that Americans do, I don't know, but there are so many interesting fairy tales unfairly ignored in favor of easily marketable stuff.

[Shanna Marie]

As part of my cleaning, decluttering, and organizing my office project, I've been digging through the boxes I took with me when I left old jobs. I found a USA Today article from around the original release of the Disney Beauty and the Beast, about how Belle was a more "liberated" princess and a better role model. Under the header "Mirror, mirror, who's the most liberated of all?" they did a comparison of the various Disney princesses, their age, looks, background, goals, burdens, personality pluses and minuses, accomplishments, job potential in today's market, predictions for happily ever after, and role model grade. I thought it was interesting, especially in comparison to the Once Upon a Time versions of these characters.

 

Here's how they all rated on job potential, happily ever after and role model grade (and remember, this is all from 1991):

Belle:

Job potential -- Supreme Court justice

Happily-ever-after -- terrific outlook, considering they've already gone through hell and back. Things can only get better. And they're perfect dining partners.

Role model grade: A+

(Movie Belle is basically the polar opposite of show Belle)

 

Cinderella:

Job potential -- Princess Di's successor (this is where the 1991 shows)

Happily-ever-after -- Much like Charles and Di. There will be a chill after she's borne a couple of heirs.

Role model grade -- B+

(I'm not sure I agree. Cinderella wasn't afraid of hard work.)

 

Princess Aurora:

Job potential -- A pampered suburban princess who can do odd jobs. But not a seamstress -- too many needles (I guess they don't realize that needles and spindles are different things)

Happily-ever-after -- A devoted twosome who have survived a few trials.

Role model grade -- C

 

Ariel:

Job potential -- A lounge singer at a Red Lobster restaurant or an aquarium director.

Happily-ever-after -- Neither one is a rocket scientist -- they should be OK.

Role model grade -- D+ (they weren't thrilled that she was willing to give up her voice for a guy)

 

Snow White:

Job potential -- Running a maid service or a home-decorating company

Happily-ever-after -- Not great. She seems to be marrying far too young. (they'd judged her age at 12-13)

Role model grade -- C-

[Writing Wrongs]

I was off work yesterday and was in a fairy tale mood so I re-watched Ella Enchanted and Mirror Mirror. I'd forgotten how bad Mirror Mirror was. Julia Roberts, ugh.

[MedievalGirl]

Mirror Mirror read much better to me when I found out about the director's Bollywood background. The over the topness made more sense.  

[HoodlumSheep]

Funny how Belle always seems to be rated best. It is probably these exact reasons why she isn't and never will be my favorite princess. She's too perfect for my liking.

I didn't really like Julia Roberts in "Mirror Mirror" either. I love Ella Enchanted though. I've never read the book it was based on, but apparently the movie is pretty much blasphemous according to most of the book community.

I Saw "Into the Woods" in January, but I have been plagued by a certain question: what became of Prince Charming's character?

I remember he and Cinderella parted ways and I'm pretty sure he mentioned something about going to slay the giant, but then he isn't seen for the rest of the movie.

I liked how there was a good mix of what you could consider happy endings vs not-happy endings compared to Once, where it seems like everyone is going to get their happy endings.

[Shanna Marie]

In the stage version of Into the Woods, Rapunzel's prince and Cinderella's prince ditch them and go after Snow White and Sleeping Beauty. There's a reprise of the "Agony" song in which they sing about loving a woman who's asleep.

[HoodlumSheep]

In the stage version of Into the Woods, Rapunzel's prince and Cinderella's prince ditch them and go after Snow White and Sleeping Beauty. There's a reprise of the "Agony" song in which they sing about loving a woman who's asleep.

Interesting, although I think I'm glad they seemed to change it and let the lil' brother prince and rapunzel get a happy ending (or at least the happiest ending out of the main characters). He was definitely portrayed as the nicer/better of the two. His feelings seemed genuine.

[Shanna Marie]

In the stage version, as I recall, both Rapunzel and her prince end up being killed by the giant's wife (or maybe it's just Rapunzel? I know she dies, since that's what triggers the Witch's final "screw you all"). We see Cinderella's prince with whichever sleeper he ends up with (I think it was Snow White) in the epilogue/finale song. There was a lot of controversy over the movie changing Rapunzel's fate.

 

I have the DVD of the stage version and should probably rewatch it. It's been a long time. I listen to the cast recording a lot, but haven't sat down to watch the show in ages.

[SilverShadow]

In the stage version there is a long gap of time between the Third Midnight and Rapunzel's Prince finding her/Cinderella's wedding, during which Rapunzel bore a set of twins. In Act 2 she is much much more unstable from everything the Witch has done to her. Her prince talks about it before the "Agony-Reprise," where he admits to having fallen for a comatose Snow White and Cindy's Prince likewise exposits he's found a sleeping maiden in a tower. Later Rapunzel accidentally runs into the giant's path and is smushed, causing the grieving Witch to cement her desire to deliver Jack to the giant, which results in her breakdown/suicide in "Last Midnight." The Princes are shown very briefly to have gotten with Snow White and Sleeping Beauty.

 

"The harder to wake the better to have! Agreed?"

"Agreed!"

 

The twins aren't referred to again. They're either somewhere safe and presumably gonna be raised by their Dad('s servants) or they didn't make it.

 

[Writing Wrongs]

Cinderella is getting good reviews. It seems to follow the animated movie pretty closely. I'm looking forward to seeing it. When I saw Maleficent in the theater I loved it, but I couldn't get through the blu-ray watch. Maybe I get enough of the misunderstood villain on this show.

[tennisgurl]

I think this show might have actually preemptively killed Maleficent for me. I saw the trailer and was like "This is going to a story about a badass female villain who is actually a sad wounded bird, who was hurt by those mean good guys, turns bad, then is redeemed by the love of a child who isn't biologically her`s isn't it? Good God not this crap again!" Granted, Maleficent isn't as annoying as Regina tends to be in her most self-pitting, and she actually had much better reasons to be pissed, but yeah. Maleficent is the Queen of Evil! I don't WANT her to be a misunderstood good guy. And ruining the awesome good fairy trio, by turning them into child neglecting morons? Unforgivable, movie! 

 

I am looking forward to Cinderella though. Its getting good buzz, and I am in desperate need for some really good fairy tales. 

Edited February 22, 2015 by tennisgurl

[Camera One]

And ruining the awesome good fairy trio, by turning them into child neglecting morons? Unforgivable, movie! 

 

I totally agree, especially about the Fairies.  Is it that difficult to write the "good guys"?   Is only the misunderstood villain allowed any depth?  Granted, I understand the movie was supposed to be about Maleficent but they could have done a much better job.

[Writing Wrongs]

Live action Beauty & The Beast casting news:

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/downton-abbey-star-dan-stevens-115800904.html

 

So Emma Watson as Belle, Luke Evans as Gaston and some guy from Downton Abbey as the Beast. Hmm. Not sold on Emma Watson.

[Curio]

I'm going to be rooting for Gaston the entire movie, aren't I? (Wasn't entirely impressed with Dan Stevens on Downtown. Although, that might just be because I couldn't get into Downton's melodrama period...)

Edited March 5, 2015 by Curio

[Serena]

Not impressed with any of the cast. I'm not impressed with the Cinderella cast, either.

[turbogirlnyc]

Not impressed with any of the cast. I'm not impressed with the Cinderella cast, either.

Isn't Holliday Granger Anastasia? She was great in The Borgias & Bonnie & Clyde. Also love Cate Blanchett!

[Shanna Marie]

I'm actually rather excited about Cinderella. I am planning a Grand Day Out next Friday to see it, even though it's spring break and there will likely be children at the matinee. I'm okay with a few cute little girls wearing Cinderella costumes as long as they're reasonably quiet.

 

Oh, and Frozen fever has not abated. I found some Frozen stickers in the Dollar Spot at Target, and you'd have thought I was handing out puppies from the way my kindergarten choir reacted when I handed out Frozen stickers at the end of choir. Most of the girls want Elsa-related stickers. One of the boys does, too, because he thinks she's beautiful (and he picked the one where she's posed with that slit up the leg of her dress really evident). The other boys want Olaf stickers. No one wants poor Anna, so I gave myself an Anna sticker. No one has wanted Sven or Kristoff, either.

 

But I did see the cutest little Anna the other night. I'm helping with the youth musical production of Mary Poppins, and the little sister of the boy who plays Michael was at the rehearsal. She was about 3, had bright red hair, and was wearing the Anna's ballgown costume with pink cowboy boots. She sat in the front row to watch the rehearsal, utterly rapt, but then when a dance number started, she got up from her seat and did the dance routine down in front of the stage. I think she has the choreography nailed better than some of the teenagers do. It was a little surreal to see a redhaired Anna in pink cowboy boots doing the "Step in Time" chimney sweep dance.

[Serena]

Isn't Holliday Granger Anastasia? She was great in The Borgias & Bonnie & Clyde. Also love Cate Blanchett!

Holliday is one of the stepsisters, yet. She's so great, I don't get how she wasn't cast as Cinderella herself. Maybe Disney didn't want their new fairytale princess to have a previous role where she showed her boobs and had sex with her brother? Heee.

[turbogirlnyc]

Holliday is one of the stepsisters, yet. She's so great, I don't get how she wasn't cast as Cinderella herself. Maybe Disney didn't want their new fairytale princess to have a previous role where she showed her boobs and had sex with her brother? Heee.

I also thought she would've been perfect as Cinderella but you have a very good point there.

[icewolf]

Frozen 2 is being made

John Lasseter, Chief Creative Officer of Walt Disney and Pixar Animation Studios, released the following statement today:

"We enjoyed making Frozen Fever so much and being back in that world with those characters. Jennifer Lee and Chris Buck have come up with a great idea for a sequel and you will be hearing a lot more about it and we're taking you back to Arendelle. We are so excited about that."

To date, Frozen has earned $1.27 billion worldwide and is the most successful animated film of all time.

No surprise that the sequel is happening. Disney can't ignore that money.

 

My guess is that OUAT's Frozen season arc will be completely ignored by the sequel. But it would be nice if Elsa had one line in the sequel mentioning how she had "a fun time with Emma a few months ago" or something. The Frozen characters appearing this season will probably end up being a one time deal.

 

Or the characters could be back on OUAT in the future for marketing purposes. Who knows?

Edited March 13, 2015 by icewolf