Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, angora said:

How was Henry Golding as William Elliot? I love him, but the trailers have made me wary of seeing it.

Well see that's the thing!   He's a bigger star than Cosmo Jarvis and of course with the advertisements I assumed he was the love interest!  He isn't!  His role is VERY small.

It's kind of interesting to see him like this, he's more of like an acerbic antagonist.

But yeah, this is no Crazy Rich Asians or even A Simple Favor.  :( 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Well see that's the thing!   He's a bigger star than Cosmo Jarvis and of course with the advertisements I assumed he was the love interest!  He isn't!  His role is VERY small.

It's kind of interesting to see him like this, he's more of like an acerbic antagonist.

But yeah, this is no Crazy Rich Asians or even A Simple Favor.  :( 

Really? That's disappointing. I really thought his role was bigger.

[angora]

Ugh, boo! I know Persuasion well, so I knew he was the cad. Like you said, a very different role for him, which intrigued me (even as I was disappointed that he wasn't the male lead.) But if he isn't even in it that much? What a waste, as he was the main reason I would've wanted to watch it.

[Hiyo]

Academy Awards apologises to Sacheen Littlefeather for Oscars speech moment.

[angora]

So I still haven't checked out Persuasion, but I did watch Fire Island, which I think was a decidedly better choice. While the trailer caught my interest, learning it was a modern reimagining of Pride & Prejudice intrigued the hell out of me, and it did NOT disappoint.

I thought the film did a great job translating the class interplay of Jane Austen to the social dynamics of LBGTQ men on Fire Island. Yes, economic status is still an issue--I love when Noah sees the size of Charlie's beach house and immediately throws away the half bottle of wine one of the other characters had brought as a "gift"--but the script plays with other types of social currency as well. The five "sisters" are mostly people of color, mostly more feminine, and have an array of body types, things that mark them out as less desirable to a lot of the wealthy/white/masculine/toned men around them.

Bowen Yang and James Scully are sweet/endearing as Howie and Charlie (the Jane/Bingley of the film.) Charlie's stuck-up friends act like Howie is beneath them, but I love how taken Charlie is with Howie's earnestness and dorky charm. ("Have you guys seen 'Gays in Space'?" lol, I love it.)

Meanwhile, I LOVE Joel Kim Booster and Conrad Ricamora as Noah and Will (the Lizzy/Darcy.) That combative chemistry is spot on, I really enjoy Noah's wit, and Will's characterization is just the right combination of blunt and shy--you see see the full-on horror in his eyes during "game night" with the Kitty and Lydia characters, lol. Honestly, Conrad Ricamora is a Colin Firth-level Darcy for me, sooooo good!

And as awesome as all the Pride and Prejudice stuff is, I like that the movie also has some things of its own to say. I love the found family aspect between the five friends and Margaret Cho's Mrs. Bennet character, especially the deep friendship between Noah and Howie. The conflict that develops between Noah and Howie over their shared-but-still-different experiences as gay Asian American men is really good, and while the film only addresses it briefly, it's interesting that Will is the one person of color in Charlie's otherwise-white group of friends.

On the whole, really loved it. I'd happily watch another movie with these characters, or if Joel Kim Booster decides to write a whole series of Jane Austen-inspired queer BIPOC romcoms, I'm there.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, angora said:

Honestly, Conrad Ricamora is a Colin Firth-level Darcy for me, sooooo good!

I thought he was so good too, and so hot lol.

2 hours ago, angora said:

The conflict that develops between Noah and Howie over their shared-but-still-different experiences as gay Asian American men is really good, and while the film only addresses it briefly, it's interesting that Will is the one person of color in Charlie's otherwise-white group of friends.

Agree.

[Scarlett45]

On 8/25/2022 at 10:25 AM, angora said:

So I still haven't checked out Persuasion, but I did watch Fire Island, which I think was a decidedly better choice. While the trailer caught my interest, learning it was a modern reimagining of Pride & Prejudice intrigued the hell out of me, and it did NOT disappoint.

I thought the film did a great job translating the class interplay of Jane Austen to the social dynamics of LBGTQ men on Fire Island. Yes, economic status is still an issue--I love when Noah sees the size of Charlie's beach house and immediately throws away the half bottle of wine one of the other characters had brought as a "gift"--but the script plays with other types of social currency as well. The five "sisters" are mostly people of color, mostly more feminine, and have an array of body types, things that mark them out as less desirable to a lot of the wealthy/white/masculine/toned men around them.

Bowen Yang and James Scully are sweet/endearing as Howie and Charlie (the Jane/Bingley of the film.) Charlie's stuck-up friends act like Howie is beneath them, but I love how taken Charlie is with Howie's earnestness and dorky charm. ("Have you guys seen 'Gays in Space'?" lol, I love it.)

Meanwhile, I LOVE Joel Kim Booster and Conrad Ricamora as Noah and Will (the Lizzy/Darcy.) That combative chemistry is spot on, I really enjoy Noah's wit, and Will's characterization is just the right combination of blunt and shy--you see see the full-on horror in his eyes during "game night" with the Kitty and Lydia characters, lol. Honestly, Conrad Ricamora is a Colin Firth-level Darcy for me, sooooo good!

And as awesome as all the Pride and Prejudice stuff is, I like that the movie also has some things of its own to say. I love the found family aspect between the five friends and Margaret Cho's Mrs. Bennet character, especially the deep friendship between Noah and Howie. The conflict that develops between Noah and Howie over their shared-but-still-different experiences as gay Asian American men is really good, and while the film only addresses it briefly, it's interesting that Will is the one person of color in Charlie's otherwise-white group of friends.

On the whole, really loved it. I'd happily watch another movie with these characters, or if Joel Kim Booster decides to write a whole series of Jane Austen-inspired queer BIPOC romcoms, I'm there.

Ditto to everything you said here. I also wanted to share that it’s my second favorite Pride & Prejudice adaptation after  “Pride & Prejudice & Zombies”.

[Spartan Girl]

People are already starting to be alarmed by Captain America: New World Order, mostly because the title is a conspiracy theory. And other things are setting them off in terms of the casting:

Feige might want to rethink this one, especially after how some people were upset about Moon Knight’s Jewish identity being watered down on that show. At the very least, they need to change the title.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Danny Franks]

On 9/11/2022 at 3:34 AM, Spartan Girl said:

People are already starting to be alarmed by Captain America: New World Order, mostly because the title is a conspiracy theory. And other things are setting them off in terms of the casting:

Feige might want to rethink this one, especially after how some people were upset about Moon Knight’s Jewish identity being watered down on that show. At the very least, they need to change the title.

Ah, they're just ensuring the movies embody the spirit and views of Walt Disney.... and not the predominantly Jewish writers and artists who invented comic books.

Tim Blake Nelson already played the Leader (or the character who becomes him, who I think is Jewish) in The Incredible Hulk, so it's not the casting that's problematic, it's the title of the movie. They should really reconsider that title, as catchy as it might be.

I had my eye on Shira Haas as a potential Kitty Pryde, if the X-Men movie cast her as an adult (and if Haas can do an American accent), but it would be good to see her playing Sabra. It's a shame most of the articles so far are using Sabra's old costume, which was very much just her wearing the Israeli flag. That's not what she wears any more, and I would wager it won't be what she wears in the movie.

[Spartan Girl]

I know I shouldn’t give the racist backlash against the new Little Mermaid one breath of oxygen, but the fact that the trolls managed to give the teaser trailer 2 million dislikes on YouTube and bombed the comments section with “jokes” (using that term loosely) like “I loved it when Ariel stole the Infinity Glove” makes my teeth crack.

And if I hear the word “woke” one more time I’ll scream.

But on the upside, I’m loving all the videos posted on TikTok that show little Black girls reacting to the trailer.

[Ms.Moon]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I know I shouldn’t give the racist backlash against the new Little Mermaid one breath of oxygen, but the fact that the trolls managed to give the teaser trailer 2 million dislikes on YouTube and bombed the comments section with “jokes” (using that term loosely) like “I loved it when Ariel stole the Infinity Glove” makes my teeth crack.

And if I hear the word “woke” one more time I’ll scream.

But on the upside, I’m loving all the videos posted on TikTok that show little Black girls reacting to the trailer.

I wonder if racists can figure out what types of peoples live in the Caribbean.  I believe this version of The Little Mermaid is set somewhere in the Caribbean since many of the songs in the original Little Mermaid were very calypso adjacent.  Plus nobody will be charmed by the waters outside of the tropics.  We took my goddaughter to Bermuda and she finally understood why we never went to the beaches in New York where we live.  Nobody wants to see a beach anywhere outside of the tropics the water is prettier, clearer, and the sands are also very pretty.  If they want a Little Mermaid set somewhere in England I hope they enjoy watching people in thick sweaters walking briskly along a beach to the nearest pub to get fish and chips because that’s a trip to the beach in England a good 95% of the time.

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

But on the upside, I’m loving all the videos posted on TikTok that show little Black girls reacting to the trailer.

I just watched that three times in a row and my eyes are still leaking with happy tears.

[Spartan Girl]

At this point, I don’t even care if the movie is good or not. I want it to make Top Gun: Maverick box office money so I can drink from the tears of every single asshole commentator that crapping on it, and show all those little girls that they deserve to be mermaid princesses too.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I know I shouldn’t give the racist backlash against the new Little Mermaid one breath of oxygen, but the fact that the trolls managed to give the teaser trailer 2 million dislikes on YouTube and bombed the comments section with “jokes” (using that term loosely) like “I loved it when Ariel stole the Infinity Glove” makes my teeth crack.

And if I hear the word “woke” one more time I’ll scream.

But on the upside, I’m loving all the videos posted on TikTok that show little Black girls reacting to the trailer.

At this point my TikTok is almost entirely little Black reaction and reactions to racists losing their mind. I go from being in near tears seeing reminders of how much representation matters to wanting to throw things at the comments from people who devalue those little girls. It’s an emotional roller coaster. 

At this point I feels non stop with one project after another being bombarded. 

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

At this point, I don’t even care if the movie is good or not. I want it to make Top Gun: Maverick box office money so I can drink from the tears of every single asshole commentator that crapping on it, and show all those little girls that they deserve to be mermaid princesses too.

Same. 

[Spartan Girl]

Just now, Dani said:

At this point I feels non stop with one project after another being bombarded. 

Seriously! We go through this EVERY FUCKING TIME: Ghostbusters, Captain Marvel, Star Wars, Lightyear, Obi-Wan Kenobi, that Lord of the Rings show—every time something doesn’t exactly how they want it, they have to ruin it for the rest of us. Can’t they just shut the fuck up for once in their lives?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I've read comments on Twitter where people say that these people who are angry about the casting don't actually care about the movie, and were never planning on seeing it regardless of who was cast, and I think that's important to remember.  They're just grabbing onto any of these issues where they feel 'white rights' are being encroached upon, and unfortunately their rage is being amplified.  It does really suck though.

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Seriously! We go through this EVERY FUCKING TIME: Ghostbusters, Captain Marvel, Star Wars, Lightyear, Obi-Wan Kenobi, that Lord of the Rings show—every time something doesn’t exactly how they want it, they have to ruin it for the rest of us. Can’t they just shut the fuck up for once in their lives?

I think there is something happening with "The Sandman" too but I don't know enough about the issue to comment.  People are complaining about the show and saying it's not Neil Gaiman's vision and then lo and behold Neil is extremely active on Twitter and says, actually this IS my vision.

[Spartan Girl]

I’m trying to remember if Brandy got this much crap for playing Cinderella. She probably did, but there was no social media around back then to amplify the nastiness. 

On 9/13/2022 at 11:41 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've read comments on Twitter where people say that these people who are angry about the casting don't actually care about the movie, and were never planning on seeing it regardless of who was cast, and I think that's important to remember.  They're just grabbing onto any of these issues where they feel 'white rights' are being encroached upon, and unfortunately their rage is being amplified.  It does really suck though.

And this is why we can’t have nice things.

What makes me sad is how these so-called purist claim to love Ariel so much, but they just proved they never understood her at all. Because Ariel was a character that believed just because something was “different” didn’t mean it was bad. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m trying to remember if Brandy got this much crap for playing Cinderella. She probably did, but there was no social media around back then to amplify the nastiness. 

I don't recall any backlash from the Brandy-Whitney Cinderella, but that was not a live-action version of a Disney movie.  It was a remake of the Rodgers and Hammerstein musical and was correctly marketed as such. But some quick research shows that unfortunately yes the tabloids did print some nastiness--

The cast is so hot that the supermarket tabloids took notice--running a story about Brandy and Whitney getting into a cat fight on the set, with Whoopi stepping in to break it up.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-aug-24-ca-25271-story.html

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The cast is so hot that the supermarket tabloids took notice--running a story about Brandy and Whitney getting into a cat fight on the set, with Whoopi stepping in to break it up

Oh that is such BULLSHIT. Brandy idolized Whitney! But nothing makes a juicier story than two women fighting 🙄

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/15/2022 at 8:23 AM, Spartan Girl said:

I’m trying to remember if Brandy got this much crap for playing Cinderella. She probably did, but there was no social media around back then to amplify the nastiness. 

What's sad is that I was thinking along similar lines.  I grew up in a time when Whoopi Goldberg was the star of every movie and I was in absolute bliss.  I was thinking if that happened now, it would just be complaints about how everything is so woke.  And people would probably just be sending her harassment and death threats online.  What a sad thought.

It used to be mostly just tabloids attacking female stars.  And entertainment shows, and people like Joan Rivers.  I immediately thought of Alicia Silverstone in the Batman movie.  Now, because of social media, it's these nasty online white supremacist communities that hate anything that doesn't uphold that status quo.

House of the Dragon is another one being criticized by racist trolls:

https://deadline.com/2022/09/the-view-whoopi-goldberg-blasts-the-rings-of-power-house-of-the-dragon-trolls-racist-backlash-1235109652/

By the way Ismael Cruz Córdova from the Lord of the Rings show is so hot.  I know him from The Undoing (which was good) and Mary Queen of Scots (which unfortunately I didn't love.)  The cast of Mary Queen of Scots was pretty multiracial.  It was definitely a good cast.  I just don't know if the movie really came together for me.  Maybe I just hate the (real life) story.  It's pretty harsh.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[methodwriter85]

On 9/15/2022 at 11:35 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't recall any backlash from the Brandy-Whitney Cinderella, but that was not a live-action version of a Disney movie.  It was a remake of the Rodgers and Hammerstein musical and was correctly marketed as such. But some quick research shows that unfortunately yes the tabloids did print some nastiness--

Brandy was also an established star at this point, and a likeable one at. She in general got very little negative press when she was at the height of her fame. Brandy had the whole sweet, "girl next door who happens to be black" marketing going on for her. Of course, again, she was lucky that she didn't have to deal with social media as a 18-year old star.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

Brandy was also an established star at this point, and a likeable one at. She in general got very little negative press when she was at the height of her fame. Brandy had the whole sweet, "girl next door who happens to be black" marketing going on for her. Of course, again, she was lucky that she didn't have to deal with social media as a 18-year old star.

Halle and Chloe are established singers that are very well liked (by everyone who isn’t a racist troll anyway). I don’t recall hearing anything bad about either one of them.

So yeah, had Brandy been in the prime of her fame today, she probably would have dealt with much more crap. I only have to think about her Dancing with the Stars and how, despite being one of the best dancers that season, she got deliberately voted off and cheated out of being in the finals.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Guest]

On 9/15/2022 at 8:35 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't recall any backlash from the Brandy-Whitney Cinderella, but that was not a live-action version of a Disney movie.  It was a remake of the Rodgers and Hammerstein musical and was correctly marketed as such. But some quick research shows that unfortunately yes the tabloids did print some nastiness--

The cast is so hot that the supermarket tabloids took notice--running a story about Brandy and Whitney getting into a cat fight on the set, with Whoopi stepping in to break it up.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-aug-24-ca-25271-story.html

I remember there being a backlash at least with critics. I imagine that was echoed with some of the audience but they just didn’t have a platform. It was less obviously racist. Comments about a Black women and a White man having an Asian son. Labeling it as PC. A lot of criticism of Brandy’s acting which I felt had a lot to do with race.

Commentary: Critics ridiculed Brandy’s ‘Cinderella.’ Its lasting legacy is a lesson to Hollywood

ETA: I just read the original Variety review and have to take back my less obviously racist statement. 
 

Quote

Whitney Houston (one of five executive producers) is another story entirely. Clad in a garishly bejeweled get-up and padding that lends her a look not unlike Jennifer Holliday on steroids, Houston plays the Fairy Godmother as she might be played by Chaka Khan: all verve and sass and overzealousness.

Houston’s is a frightening caricature, one certain to send the kids scurrying into Mom’s lap for reassurance that the good woman will soon go away.

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, Dani said:

I remember there being a backlash at least with critics. I imagine that was echoed with some of the audience but they just didn’t have a platform. It was less obviously racist. Comments about a Black women and a White man having an Asian son. Labeling it as PC. A lot of criticism of Brandy’s acting which I felt had a lot to do with race.

Commentary: Critics ridiculed Brandy’s ‘Cinderella.’ Its lasting legacy is a lesson to Hollywood

ETA: I just read the original Variety review and have to take back my less obviously racist statement. 
 

Oh these asshole can fuck all the way off. 😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤

Edited September 17, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Guest]

I came across this old clip on TikTok from Last Week Tonight that is sadly even more relevant today. 

“Yes, if your black, even if your an actor that sometimes dresses like French Waldo, people will still say you’re too street.”

Maybe I’ll just start posing this whenever some claims a double standard or reverse racism. 

[Annber03]

I've pointed this out before, but I always get a kick out of how, whenever people point out how unrealistic it is for a TV show or film that's set in a big city like New York or L.A. or whatever to have an all-white, all straight cast, we have people rushing in to be all, "It's just TV/a movie/fiction! It doesn't HAVE to be realistic!" 

But the moment any TV show or film has a cast that's largely full of people who aren't white or straight, THEN all of a sudden we have to start caring about things like "accuracy" and "demographics" and "statistics". THEN all of a sudden fiction has to be "realistic". 

Funny how that works. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

When a bunch of white people take roles meant for people of colour, or garner all of the nominations or win all of the acting awards, someone is always there to argue Well it's merit based and the best person for the role/nomination got it.

When people of colour gets a role or award it always becomes "This is just trying to be woke" or a "This was a diversity hire".  The goalposts are always moving.

This is why I point out when only white directors or actors are up for certain movies and roles.  They don't even audition non-white actors for some roles.  They certainly don't care about merit in that situation.  They only care about what looks "good" (read: white) on the poster and merit doesn't factor into it. 

For example, when I watch a movie that's set in the year 2777 or whatever, it always makes me laugh that the cast is mostly white.  Does that still feel realistic to writers and producers, really?  There was no science or merit that went into that casting, just let's find a bunch of white people and no one will question it.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Guest]

I typed a post and then I remembered that Trevor Noah had already said most of what I was thinking. 

It’s all bad faith arguments. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

When people of colour gets a role or award it always becomes "This is just trying to be woke" or a "This was a diversity hire".  The goalposts are always moving.

This is why I point out when only white directors or actors are up for certain movies and roles.  They don't even audition non-white actors for some roles.  They certainly don't care about merit in that situation.  They only care about what looks "good" (read: white) on the poster and merit doesn't factor into it. 

When you look at the other live action Princess movies I don’t even think they even found the best white actress for the role. Lily James and Elle Fanning were fine as Cinderella and Aurora but they didn’t bring anything particularly special to the roles. Emma Watson is perfect for Belle’s look and intellect but far too weak of a singer to be the best choice. It happens all the time. 

I do believe that Mulan and Jasmine went to the best actresses they saw because they had to go based on merit. When a non-white actor gets the role it is usually because they actually are the best choice because there are so many barriers. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Naomi Scott was wonderful, and so was Mena Massoud.  And even Aladdin had to be ruined for me because there was this big rumour that Billy Magnussen of all people was going to get a spinoff, and that Guy Ritchie put brownface on white extras in his cast.  I mean, for goodness sake.  Also why was a white prince character even CREATED for that movie?!

Look at the career Mena has next to Billy.  Billy is constantly getting new movies and television shows thrown at him.  I saw the first season of "Made for Love".  I fail to see what is so fucking special about Billy Magnussen.  Meanwhile Mena is just so gorgeous and charismatic and cute and a good actor!   It's sad.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[angora]

Live-action Aladdin is a pretty middling movie, but I'm so happy it exists and I've watched it multiple times because Mena Massoud and Naomi Scott were sooooo charming, funny, romantic, and endearing in those roles. It's criminal that Mena isn't a huge star right now, especially in light of all of interchangeable bland actors Hollywood keeps offering up in a "desperately trying to make fetch happen" way.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Naomi Scott were sooooo charming, funny, romantic, and endearing in those roles.

It would have been nice if they got someone from the Middle East in that role, if not someone with Arab roots.

[Lugal]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:18 PM, Dani said:

At this point I feels non stop with one project after another being bombarded.

Unfortunately, there's a reason.  Fan-baiting.  Dr Thala Siren explained it on their twitter thread.  The whole thread is worth reading, but a few highlights:

“Fan-baiting” is a form of marketing used by producers, film studios, and actors, with the intent of exciting artificial controversy, garnering publicity, and explaining away the negative reviews of a new and often highly anticipated production. 1/10

Fan-baiting isn't "black people getting cast". Rather, it's corporations banking on black people getting harassed to inflate publicity. Hence, diversity casting is in part motivated by the hope that the corporation can maximize harassment and, consequently, $$$.

For those of you who like this thread on #fanbaiting, know that it is an example of structural racism: the individuals involved may not be personally racist, but the profit motive of the corporations who employ them orients them to make decisions that harm racialized peoples.

[Guest]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:36 AM, Lugal said:

Unfortunately, there's a reason.  Fan-baiting.

Some studios certainly fuel it but I don’t think it all that big of a factor in what we are seeing right now. Shows and movies are being attacked as soon as the cast is announced. 

This part is exactly why I don’t think it is that big of a factor. Black Panther was well-crafted, broke box office records and was loved by critics but it’s audience score on rotten tomatoes is nearly 20% below its critics score. We’re at the point where diverse projects where the script is well-crafted and audience reviews are accordingly positive doesn’t exist. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Lugal said:

Unfortunately, there's a reason.  Fan-baiting.  Dr Thala Siren explained it on their twitter thread.  The whole thread is worth reading, but a few highlights:

Also, just an FYI, but Thala Sirens are creatures in Star Wars. 

[methodwriter85]

On 9/13/2022 at 11:41 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've read comments on Twitter where people say that these people who are angry about the casting don't actually care about the movie, and were never planning on seeing it regardless of who was cast, and I think that's important to remember.  They're just grabbing onto any of these issues where they feel 'white rights' are being encroached upon, and unfortunately their rage is being amplified.  It does really suck though.

There was actually a reverse of this, as well.

Some people on Twitter were very much up in arms because Rachel Zegler was cast as Lucy in Snakes and Songbirds, the Hunger Games prequel. They were angry because Rachel Zegler is not black, and they had jumped on a tweet that Stephanie Jacobson did about how she hoped they cast a black woman. (In the book itself, Lucy is not described at all, just that she wears a rainbow colored dress.) They went on and on about Lucy being "whitewashed" and whatnot. There was also some discussion about whether Latinas can count as POC or not.

Of course, when it comes to Snow White, Rachel Zegler isn't considered white so she's getting racist comments about that. It's weird and strange how she's getting anger directed at her because she's not black, and also because she's not white. 

It's kind of wild to me, to be honest.

[Hiyo]

Quote

There was also some discussion about whether Latinas can count as POC or not

I'd say anyone in the US who faces discrimination based on their race and/or ethnicity from white majority counts as a POC.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I'd say anyone in the US who faces discrimination based on their race and/or ethnicity from white majority counts as a POC.

Yes, but as @methodwriter85 said, Zegler is getting it from both sides of the aisle because she's not white, but she's apparently not enough of a POC either. Does that make the people who are mad because she's Latina racist, since we seem to have entered into some odd shadowy area where she's caught in the middle? Unlike Katniss with her 'olive skin', there's no physical description of the character Zegler will be portraying outside of her clothes, so what's the real point of contention here?

[Hiyo]

That is a whole different set of issues. For the record, I was just replying to one specific point, whether or not Latinas can count as POC.

[angora]

Ugh, poor Rachel Zegler--that's just too much mess to deal with.

I agree with @Hiyo. And because "Latino" is more of an ethnicity than a race, it's interesting to see the different factors that contribute to perceptions/privilege/marginalization. Pedro Pascal, Rachel Zegler, Michael Pena, Zoe Saldana, Diego Luna, Justina Machado, and Oscar Isaac each have different opportunities/experiences in Hollywood, based on their color/features, their name, and their accent.

On the fan-baiting thing, the worst for me is the idea brought up in that thread that studios cut corners on quality knowing they can use any racist/sexist backlash to deflect from valid criticism. Aside from the fact that studios should want to make *good* movies/shows, that just adds to the burden they're placing on the actors being thrown to the trolls. I remember when Jodie Whittaker was first announced as the Doctor, one of my overriding thoughts was, "The writing for her had better be *impeccable*." Even though trolls were going to shit on the first female Doctor no matter what, I also knew that any faults of the show were going to blow back on *her* in a way that her predecessors like David Tennant or Matt Smith didn't have to deal with. When the writing is lackluster, that gives trolls further ammunition to say, "See?!? Jodie's a terrible Doctor!!! She's ruining Doctor Who!!!"

I do believe that true equality ultimately means that projects with marginalized leads should have the right to underperform/flop, the same way that white male stars can get chance after chance to succeed. But if a studio is putting out a cheap/subpar product with the intention of using "diversity!!" as a shield against any criticism, they're leaving those actors even more high and dry than they already were.

[methodwriter85]

On 9/20/2022 at 4:42 AM, Hiyo said:

I'd say anyone in the US who faces discrimination based on their race and/or ethnicity from white majority counts as a POC.

Camila Mendes also gets comments about whether or not she can be considered a POC because she's on the lighter side of the spectrum.

I've always wondered if the people who think that someone who looks like Camila or Rachel aren't going to be subjected to discrimination are either in a really liberal bubble or they're just completely oblivious to what most of the country is like. Trust me- if Rachel Zegler rolled up to a 90 percent white town in the Mid-West, I have serious doubts she'd be treated and accepted as a white girl.

On 9/20/2022 at 5:50 AM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Unlike Katniss with her 'olive skin', there's no physical description of the character Zegler will be portraying outside of her clothes, so what's the real point of contention here?

I think because Corio had to be white (because he has to look like a young Donald Sutherland) people were counting on Lucy to be the POC representation. People were pointing to a (deleted) tweet of Nina Jacobson where she said they were hoping to cast a black girl for Lucy and certain parts of the fandom ran with it and felt they were promised a black girl would play Lucy. I'm not sure they understood that "hoping to" and "will" are two different things.

There were also a fair amount of people who drew Lucy as Native American or as an Irish-American redhead, so things really did run the gamut.

For what it's worth, the casting for Snakes and Songbirds is actually pretty diverse.

Edited September 21, 2022 by methodwriter85

[Scarlett45]

I keep seeing ads for Bros staring Luke McFarlane (I know him from his years as a leading man in Hallmark Romantic Movies). This movie was has a 100% LGBT principal cast, per the Universal Blurb

Quote

Starring Billy Eichner, the first openly gay man to co-write and star in his own major studio film—and featuring an entirely LGBTQ+ principal cast, including Luke Macfarlane (Killjoys), Ts Madison (The Ts Madison Experience), Monica Raymund (Chicago Fire), Guillermo Díaz (Scandal), Guy Branum (The Other Two) and Amanda Bearse (Married …with Children)—Bros is directed by Nicholas Stoller from his screenplay with Eichner. The film is produced by Judd Apatow, Stoller and Joshua Church (co-producer Trainwreck, Step Brothers) and is executive produced by Eichner.

I really want to see it, but I might wait for it to come to streaming.

[possibilities]

The ads I'm seeing everywhere are funny. I hope this isn't the only good scene, but it shows

Spoiler

the two leads on a picnic blanket in the park, while a bunch of other dudes are playing some sport or other in the background. The leads are arguing and kind of wrestling and yelling at each other and the sports guys come over to break up the fight, see that the guys are actually making out, and are cool with it, apologize for interrupting.

Eichner is doing the rounds of late night talk shows promoting it. He was on with Colbert last night, will be with Seth Meyers tonight.

I wonder if there are any Ls, or if they just throw our initial in when they really mean GBT casting.

[Hiyo]

Quote

I wonder if there are any Ls

Amanda Bearse doesn't count?

[possibilities]

I didn't know she is in it. If so, then I guess that's one.

Honestly, if you want to make a gay male movie, I'm fine with that.

I just don't like how often Ls get listed and excluded or tokenized. If we're not in it, that's fine but don't pretend we are when we aren't. Representation is more than an initial.

[JustHereForFood]

On 9/20/2022 at 3:34 AM, Dani said:

This part is exactly why I don’t think it is that big of a factor. Black Panther was well-crafted, broke box office records and was loved by critics but it’s audience score on rotten tomatoes is nearly 20% below its critics score. We’re at the point where diverse projects where the script is well-crafted and audience reviews are accordingly positive doesn’t exist. 

I also don't think it's a big factor. When a huge percentage of negative scores comes from review bombing and/or from russian bots, we can't take the audience scores seriously anymore.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, possibilities said:

I didn't know she is in it. If so, then I guess that's one.

According to IMDb there are a least two more, Dot-Marie Jones and Shannon O'neill. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm excited for Bros.

Some people thought that Billy's earlier marketing of the movie was dismissive of the LGBT+ movies that have come before it.

https://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/2022/9/03/billy-eichner-clarifies-disposable-lgbtq-streaming-comment

In a new interview with Variety, Eichner praised the scale of his film: "This is not an indie movie," he said. "This is not some streaming thing which feels disposable, or which is like one of a million Netflix shows. I needed to appreciate that."

Edited September 23, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[xaxat]

I just watched a trailer for the next iteration of the Bring it On! franchise and it is blatantly a teen slasher film, which makes me sad.

The original movie is one of my guilty pleasures. Yes, there are major problematic elements (the sexualization of teen girls) bur it is also a movie explicitly about cultural appropriation. I'm sure there were earlier ones, but this is the one I remember. 

In addition, the original actually presage the upcoming world of social media. Where white influencers become famous for duplicating the work of the original Black creative.