S06.E09: Jennings, Elizabeth

[bluelena69]

12 minutes ago, White Sheep said:

Was Oleg trying to trick Stan into doing the dead drop to get dirt on him?    Or was he that desperate he had to ask Stan? 

 

Where are the Phillips going to go to hide?   KGB will move heaven and earth to find them. There ONLY hope to stay alive is to go to the FBI.

No, Oleg wanted that message to get passed along. He truly believes it's in everyone's best interest

[jjj]

How scared shitless was Philip?  He did not try to sell an airplane ticket to Father Andrei.

[NitneLiun]

30 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I pretty much loathed Stan tonight. Him telling Oleg he didn’t care if Gorbachev was ousted had to be one of the dumbest things he could say. First- it’s bad news for the US. It just is. That shouldn’t be rocket science to him. 

How sad for Claudia- Claudia really thinks Philip and the kids are meaningless things to have left. Note her emphasis on American kids. 

You have to remember that this was 1987. Many in the West still did not know what to make of Gorbachev. Some thought he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Good point about Claudia's obvious contempt for anything American, especially P and E's American kids.

[bluelena69]

2 minutes ago, NitneLiun said:

You have to remember that this was 1987. Many in the West still did not know what to make of Gorbachev. Some thought he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Bingo

[Auntie Anxiety]

Stan and Alderholt are going to look like schmucks when everyone hears that the spies were Stan's next door neighbor and Alderholt just spent Thanksgiving with them. Hilarity ensues.

 

Quote

Pastor Dollar Biil's new wig, 

When I saw Kelly AuCoin's name in the beginning, I thought, huh, I wonder what role Dollar Bill from Billions had in this show. I was shocked when I saw Pastor Groovy Hair. He looks nothing like Dollar Bill. I had no idea.

[renatae]

Wow! One of the best episodes ever! Elizabeth got a clue about her blind loyalty and grew a conscience, it seems. I was surprised Claudia didn't immediately sic some of her faction on Elizabeth, as well as that Elizabeth seemed aware this would not be a problem, which I find a bit surprising if not confusing.

Here's my Pollyanna wish for the outcome. If they get caught, I hope the family defects to the U. S. and receives protection. There is probably a snowflake's chance in hell that Elizabeth would go for this, but maybe she's so disillusioned by Claudia's lies she will go for it, finally realizing her family is more important than her misconceptions about what her country stands for. 

Of course I hope Oleg gets free and goes home but I can't think of any reason that would happen except the powers that be deciding keeping Gorbachev in power is a worthy goal and believing Oleg was not attempting to be a threat to security. For whatever reason, Gorbachev's desire for peace is not currently apparent to Stan and is not even on his radar.

Edited May 24, 2018 by renatae

[numbnut]

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

Everything seems kind of tacked-on and a little forced.

Yeah, suddenly Elizabeth is haunted by the ghost of a wounded citizen that she left to die.

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I was waiting for the moment when Claudia would weaponize that pot of hot fish soup.

When she was calmly talking with her arms hidden behind the table, I was like "Hands! Hands, motherfucker!"

This was a compelling ep despite the rush to tie up loose ends. I liked they way they didn't reveal Philip's FBI tails until he started running.

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, aquarian1 said:

The look of dread and ohshitedness on Elizabeth's face when Philip said things were topsy turvy.  Something they probably prepped for ever since they've been there, but after being there so long and never needed had to be such a shock.

"Topsy Turvy" could have been a great title for this episode.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Boy, is Henry going to be surprised! Guess he's not going to finish this semester, let alone his senior year.

[MisterBluxom]

9 minutes ago, renatae said:

Wow! One of the best episodes ever! Elizabeth got a clue about her blind loyalty and grew a conscience, it seems. I was surprised Claudia didn't immediately sic some of her faction on Elizabeth, as well as that Elizabeth seemed aware this would not  a problem, which I find a bit surprising if not confusing.

Here's my Pollyanna wish for the outcome. If they get caught, I hope the family defects to the U. S. and receives protection. There is probably a snowflake's chance in hell that Elizabeth would go for this, but maybe she's so disillusioned by Claudia's lies she will go for it, finally realizing her family is more important than her misconceptions about what her country stands for. 

Of course I hope Oleg gets free and goes home but I can't think of any reason that would happen except the powers that be deciding keeping Gorbachev in power is a worthy goal and believing Oleg was not attempting to be a threat to security. For whatever reason, Gorbachev's desire for peace is not currently apparent to Stan and is not even on his radar.

When Stan said, "Someone wants to get rid of Gorbochov? I could give a shit."

I was just frozen. How could he be so obtuse?

Also, when Granny was eating her bread with her stew (or whatever it was), I flashed back to the film, "The Falcon and the Snowman" (I hope that is the correct title). I'll never forget the line that went something like, "They eat like .... shit". Granny sitting and calmly eating her food. I was just astounded by that. What was the point of showing us that?

[hellmouse]

4 minutes ago, numbnut said:

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

Everything seems kind of tacked-on and a little forced.

Yeah, suddenly Elizabeth is haunted by the ghost of a wounded citizen that she left to die.

I'm willing to forgive that. She had a big awakening in the last episode. She may have shut off feelings and memories like the dying police officer back in Moscow before. But now she's changing - shifting like the earth after an earthquake - and things that were hidden are accessible to her now. 

But I was also surprised to see another Elizabeth flashback, mostly just because we've had Elizabeth flashbacks and I would like to see a Philip flashback. 

[missy jo]

I wish they'd gotten to this point a few episodes ago. Both the Stan and Paige point of views seem rushed. I'd have liked more time for this part of the story to play out. 

[jjj]

When the camera pulled away from the basement window with the clear view of the secret places and ways to access them, I had two simultaneous thoughts:

With all the secret signals and precautions, they didn't put blackout curtains on that window?  It is just a lit stage at night. 

I was expecting someone to be surveying Elizabeth through the window.

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Boy, is Henry going to be surprised! Guess he's not going to finish this semester, let alone his senior year.

Henry may not even make it to his next birthday.

[Erin9]

18 minutes ago, NitneLiun said:

You have to remember that this was 1987. Many in the West still did not know what to make of Gorbachev. Some thought he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Good point about Claudia's obvious contempt for anything American, especially P and E's American kids.

I’d cut him slack about Gorbachev, except if he knew Oleg at all, he’d know it mattered whether or not he was in power. He’d know Oleg wouldn’t back a nut. And he’d know that belittling Oleg was a stupid thing to do in that moment. Saying he didn’t care who was in power was literally the dumbest thing he could have said. Oleg would only risk EVERYTHING for something big and important to him. And Stan couldn’t get it. Stan came across as clueless as he was on day 1. 

Oleg tried to get it through Stan’s thick head that they really want the same things. And this is what he’s trying to do to accomplish that. 

[White Sheep]

  20 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Boy, is Henry going to be surprised! Guess he's not going to finish this semester, let alone his senior year.

Henry may not even make it to his next birthday.

Henry the odd man out for sure. I hope he likes South America.

[White Sheep]

When the camera pulled away from the basement window with the clear view of the secret places and ways to access them, I had two simultaneous thoughts:

With all the secret signals and precautions, they didn't put blackout curtains on that window?  It is just a lit stage at night. 

I was expecting someone to be surveying Elizabeth through the window.

Same here.

[Marianna]

1.  I hope they leave Henry behind (not that I believe they will all get away, but in terms of their plans). I know they have their escape plan all figured out, and Elizabeth isn’t even thinking about it, but Philip has had time to think about this. I know they’d have to do it without contacting him, but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. Of course as the only true innocent in the show, I think he’s going to end up dead.   I rather thought Oleg, as the only true tragic figure, would end up dead too, but indefinite prison is not that different. 

 

2.  I know Tatiana is a true believer and all that, but is she actually trained to murder people herself? It seems odd that she’s the one they chose to do it. Why not Claudia?

 

3.  I’m glad they brought Pastor Tim back, if only because I can’t stop thinking about  how, in his journal, he wrote that Philip and Elizabeth “ruined Paige”. They sure did. I think she’s going to prison for a very long time. And she deserves it. 

[White Sheep]

30 minutes ago, numbnut said:

Yeah, suddenly Elizabeth is haunted by the ghost of a wounded citizen that she left to die.

When she was calmly talking with her arms hidden behind the table, I was like "Hands! Hands, motherfucker!"

This was a compelling ep despite the rush to tie up loose ends. I liked they way they didn't reveal Philip's FBI tails until he started running.

Same here.  I thought for sure as soon as the hands went under the table. I was sure when they come back out.   It was bang bang lights out for someone. 

[Marianna]

Elizabeth talking to Claudia seemed like the fallacy of the talking villain, even if in reverse. She knows she can’t trust Claudia. She knows Claudia lied to her. She knows Claudia was willing for her to commit suicide in the process of carrying out Claudia’s plans. So it seems absurd that she felt she “owed” the heads-up to Claudia. She said too much last week, as it was. If the show wanted the KGB  after them, there were more natural ways to do it. 

[Cardie]

With Stan mentioning Renee's potential FBI job to both Aderholt and Philip in this busy episode, she has to be the undercover KGB agent we and Philip have always suspected. There would be no need to keep stressing this if it weren't going to mean something. As lame as her being revealed for what she is in the finale seems, I think we're crazy not to expect it.

[ruby24]

3 minutes ago, Cardie said:

With Stan mentioning Renee's potential FBI job to both Aderholt and Philip in this busy episode, she has to be the undercover KGB agent we and Philip have always suspected. There would be no need to keep stressing this if it weren't going to mean something. As lame as her being revealed for what she is in the finale seems, I think we're crazy not to expect it.

I agree 100%. I can't imagine the continuous mentioning of her means nothing after all this. Maybe it'll just be a little tag at the end that spells eventual doom for Stan after everything goes down with Philip and Elizabeth, but I'd be shocked if it was nothing. It can't be.

I even think I saw Philip have a slight reaction when Stan mentioned it to him. 

[Erin9]

Oleg’s speech to Stan reminded me of something JFK said (paraphrased): in the end- we all inhabit the same small planet, we all cherish our children’s future and we are all mortal. He also references the desire for peace. In short- we’re not that different. Stan just can’t see it. 

[kikaha]

11 minutes ago, Cardie said:

With Stan mentioning Renee's potential FBI job to both Aderholt and Philip in this busy episode, she has to be the undercover KGB agent we and Philip have always suspected. There would be no need to keep stressing this if it weren't going to mean something.

I thought Stan tossed that comment out to see how Philip reacted.  Stan the cat threw out some cheese to Philip his mouse. 

[Conan Troutman]

2 hours ago, GingerMarie said:

That was great.  The question now is who will get to Henry FIRST?

Stan would be my guess, maybe he gets something right next week. 

 

1 hour ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Yeah, that was a, "Seriously?" moment for me. Did not pass the sniff test at all. Hell, the people around her barely reacted. It's D.C., people would be absolutely reacting frantically to someone biting it in front of them. And these were high level government officials. 

That was surreal, like a scene right out of Police Squad or Sledge Hammer. Not sure if that was intentional or not. The show has done those weird offbeat jokes before, but that was a strange moment to do it. 

4 minutes ago, Marianna said:

Elizabeth talking to Claudia seemed like the fallacy of the talking villain, even if in reverse. She knows she can’t trust Claudia. She knows Claudia lied to her. She knows Claudia was willing for her to commit suicide in the process of carrying out Claudia’s plans. So it seems absurd that she felt she “owed” the heads-up to Claudia. She said too much last week, as it was. If the show wanted the KGB  after them, there were more natural ways to do it. 

I guess getting killed by the other would've made the day only slightly worse for either of them. 

[skippylou]

2 hours ago, jjj said:

I have to say that the costuming and makeup of young Elizabeth was terrific; she even made her lips thinner and more mousy.  Just a schoolgirl.  (Felitziana!)

How did superspy Tatiana miss bewigged Elizabeth smoking two packs on a bench down the street and staring at the same building that Tatiana was staring at for half a day?

Thanks, I didn't realize it was Tatiana.  If they sent her as the substitute assassin they are running out of Directorate S operatives.  They're going to need someone real good to get E and, presumably, P also.  Since The Center is big on tying up "loose ends" doesn't Elizabeth want to warn her about contacting Claudia?  

[renatae]

2 hours ago, Erin9 said:

I almost didn’t recognize Tatiana. Well- she died for her cause. 

She looked about 10 times more beautiful than I ever thought before. So I didn't recognize her either.

[jjj]

I come back to: Tatiana was sitting in a car a half block away watching the same door as Elizabeth on the bench. HOW did one of them not notice the other?!

3 minutes ago, skippylou said:

Thanks, I didn't realize it was Tatiana.  If they sent her as the substitute assassin they are running out of Directorate S operatives.  They're going to need someone real good to get E and, presumably, P also.  Since The Center is big on tying up "loose ends" doesn't Elizabeth want to warn her about contacting Claudia?  

[skippylou]

51 minutes ago, Marianna said:

 If the show wanted the KGB  after them, there were more natural ways to do it. 

Didn't matter.  Claudia and The Center will know it was Elizabeth as soon as they hear about Tatiana's death.  They connect the dots much faster than Paige.

[MBayGal]

3 hours ago, chick binewski said:

I really did want to like this episode. But I wish we had seen Stan's growing  awareness earlier this season and have more action unfold over several weeks. Everything seems kind of tacked-on and a little forced.

It was tense and engaging in some ways, but it was all so compressed.  In one hour, Eliz changes her alliegence AND admits it to Claudia; Paige realizes what her mother really does, based on people talking about a vomitting drunk talking about the woman who seduced him; Stan is so sure P and E are the spies that he tells Alderhold.  I don't see how there can be a satisfactory conclusion next week if they only have an hour.  And doesn't Eliz have any concern that Claudia will report her disobdience and she and her family will be in danger??

Edited May 24, 2018 by MBayGal

[jjj]

The final episode has a different length, and I don't see a place to post about the schedule.  I'll spoiler-tag this to be safe.

Spoiler

The final episode appears to be 90 minutes long, from 10:00-11:30 PM on the FX schedule, then repeated from 11:30 PM-1:00 AM. I say hurrah!  

[Bannon]

There were elements to really like in this episode, and, as usual it was due to superlative acting, pretty much across the board. Even Holly Taylor was good, I thought. Bravo.

The writing? Eh. It ranged from "pretty decent, if the context of how that scene was arrived at is ignored", to  "roll your eyes, are they still doing this stupid shit, in the next to last episode?"  awful.

There was so much to like in Liz and Paige confrontation, so it is a shame that Paige's writing this season didn't lead to that scene more organically. She's been watching people get murdered right under her nose, and what finally moves the needle for her is the knowledge that mom has sex with people to get information? 

I'm sorry, but the scene where Liz kills her fellow KGB agent was just poorly shot. I know D.C. had a lot of murders then, but, no, people would not get gunned down in broad daylight, and elicit  so little reaction.

Finally. once again, why are the writers  so determined to portray the FBI as idiots$

[jrlr]

When Stan was researching the Jennings and saw there was no record of the travel agency, I was fully expecting an "Aha!" Moment, but Stan barely reacted.  Wouldn't that be a huge red flag?  

[jjj]

1 minute ago, jrlr said:

When Stan was researching the Jennings and saw there was no record of the travel agency, I was fully expecting an "Aha!" Moment, but Stan barely reacted.  Wouldn't that be a huge red flag?  

No, that was a database of arrests and other criminal activity. (FBI files)  The travel agency is licensed. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by jjj

[MisterBluxom]

10 minutes ago, Bannon said:

There were elements to really like in this episode, and, as usual it was due to superlative acting, pretty much across the board. Even Holly Taylor was good, I thought. Bravo.

The writing? Eh. It ranged from "pretty decent, if the context of how that scene was arrived at is ignored", to  "roll your eyes, are they still doing this stupid shit, in the next to last episode?"  awful.

There was so much to like in Liz and Paige confrontation, so it is a shame that Paige's writing this season didn't lead to that scene more organically. She's been watching people get murdered right under her nose, and what finally moves the needle for her is the knowledge that mom has sex with people to get information? 

I'm sorry, but the scene where Liz kills her fellow KGB agent was just poorly shot. I know D.C. had a lot of murders then, but, no, people would not get gunned down in broad daylight, and elicit  so little reaction.

Finally. once again, why are the writers  so determined to portray the FBI as idiots$

The writing may have been better than most other episodes. But the idea that Paige would somehow be at the same place and time as the kid E had slept with and that kid then got drunk and spilled the beans in front of Paige was - IMO - absolutely freaking PREPOSTEROUS! The probability of that happening was just ludicrous.

[lazylou]

3 hours ago, RedHawk said:

It sure is not on this show! I’ve noticed over the seasons that we have never seen episodes set in summer. ;-)

In fact, it sure seems to have snowed a lot in the 80s in DC.  It all looks like Brooklyn to me!

[jjj]

6 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

The writing may have been better than most other episodes. But the idea that Paige would somehow be at the same place and time as the kid E had slept with and that kid then got drunk and spilled the beans in front of Paige was - IMO - absolutely freaking PREPOSTEROUS! The probability of that happening was just ludicrous.

And -- timeline.  This all happened the previous day.  He got drunk that same night, said he would quit school,  spilled the beans to Paige's "boyfriend", the "boyfriend" got the information back to Paige, and she connected it to Elizabeth?  All in the same morning to early afternoon? 

Meanwhile, Elizabeth is thinking "older woman?"  "OLDER WOMAN?"  Not many 21-year-olds would say that -- would just say "woman", and that would convey it was not a college "girl". 

Edited May 24, 2018 by jjj

[anonymiss]

44 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

chick binewski said:

I really did want to like this episode. But I wish we had seen Stan's growing  awareness earlier this season and have more action unfold over several weeks. Everything seems kind of tacked-on and a little forced.

44 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

It was tense and engaging in some ways, but it was all so compressed. [...] Paige realizes what her mother really does, based on people talking about a vomitting drunk talking about the woman who seduced him; Stan is so sure P and E are the spies that he tells Alderhold.

Agreed. They had the time so none of this would feel rushed but chose instead to devote it to pointless Paige. All that time after her blankly staring into space after sleeping w/ the intern was precious time wasted. She only ever seems to grow a brain when it's convenient for the plot and is always twice as annoying when indignant because she is naively indignant. She was indignant in demanding her parents' truth and naive in thinking she could handle it (and even do it better than her dad after landing some sucker punches). And tonight she had an awfully convenient, but woefully naive epiphany about the nature of her mother's work, which she was set to devote her life to the other week. She was a waste of Elizabeth's and Claudia's time and my time.

[Umbelina]

23 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

The writing may have been better than most other episodes. But the idea that Paige would somehow be at the same place and time as the kid E had slept with and that kid then got drunk and spilled the beans in front of Paige was - IMO - absolutely freaking PREPOSTEROUS! The probability of that happening was just ludicrous.

Washington is a small company town in many ways.  It would not be at all unusual for interns to be at the same party.  If you are in government it wouldn't be odd to know the same people, especially when they have your job.

A bit of a convenient coincidence?  Sure.  Certainly not preposterous to me.

18 minutes ago, jjj said:

And -- timeline.  This all happened the previous day.  He got drunk that same night, said he would quit school,  spilled the beans to Paige's "boyfriend", the "boyfriend" got the information back to Paige, and she connected it to Elizabeth?  All in the same morning to early afternoon? 

Meanwhile, Elizabeth is thinking "older woman?"  "OLDER WOMAN?"  Not many 21-year-olds would say that -- would just say "woman", and that would convey it was not a college "girl". 

Who wouldn't get drunk the next day?  That was a very frightening experience, and top it off with excellent sex, before you thought she might kill you?  At that age, I probably would have gotten drunk too.

She IS an older woman, she's over twice his age, and if, at that age, that had happened to me with an older man?  That would have been part of my drunken rant as well.

That part didn't bother me, but I agree that it feels kind of rushed here at the end.  A lot of things I would have liked to see sooner, but...I'm hoping for a great finale anyway.

[scrb]

Who is Tatiana?

Someone tell Stan that Google wasn't around in '87, no matter what it was called in the FBI system.

Paige slut shaming Elizabeth!  Maybe she spoke to pastor Tim as well.

[NUguy514]

Oleg's telling Stan, basically, what an idiotic piece of shit he is was everything to me.  I've just never warmed to Stan, and I hope Renée kills him fucking dead next week.

I also hoped Elizabeth would put a bullet in Claudia's brain while Claudia was going on and fucking on about how disappointed she was in Elizabeth so that Claudia would finally shut the fuck up.

When Philip broke into that all-out sprint, I was like:

[jjj]

30 minutes ago, scrb said:

Who is Tatiana?

Someone tell Stan that Google wasn't around in '87, no matter what it was called in the FBI system.

Tatiana was a senior officer at the Rezidentura; years ago was involved with then professionally betrayed by Oleg.  

Stan was accessing a case file database that did exist for the FBI in 1987.  But it would only have information about people who had been arrested, or perhaps businesses that had criminal charges lodged against them.  Others here know the system better. 

[renatae]

1 hour ago, lazylou said:

In fact, it sure seems to have snowed a lot in the 80s in DC.  It all looks like Brooklyn to me!

That's something that has always stood out to me. In the 80's it was really rare for D.C. to get snow, and on the show they have it all the time, at least signs of it on the streets. My MIL lived there, and we were visiting one weekend when it was frigid and there was just a trace of snow, and everyone, especially on the news, kept going on about how this was record low temps. Later on, it became more like today, and snow is not a very unusual occurrence there now. But not then.

[Umbelina]

Oleg getting through to Stan was everything.  Those two were always great together.  Once Stan got over his single minded quest about identifying the illegals, and listened?  They connected.

I wish we'd had even more of that in other episodes.  I really missed the Stan/Oleg connection.

[renatae]

35 minutes ago, jjj said:

Tatiana was a senior officer at the Rezidentura; years ago was involved with then professionally betrayed by Oleg.  

Can you refresh my memory on this? I don't remember what he did regarding her. I just remember they had been lovers. 

[Umbelina]

18 minutes ago, renatae said:

Can you refresh my memory on this? I don't remember what he did regarding her. I just remember they had been lovers. 

Oleg:    Beeeeep.

Tatiana:  Beeee eeep.

Oleg:  BEEEEEEP!

Tatiana:  BEEEEEEEEEP!

Both laugh.

Also, he made her get loud during sex.

He sabotaged her transfer of the bioweapon by telling Stan, which got William arrested and dead.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Umbelina

[renatae]

13 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Oleg:    Beeeeep.

Tatiana:  Beeee eeep.

Oleg:  BEEEEEEP!

Tatiana:  BEEEEEEEEEP!

Both laugh.

Also, he made her get loud during sex.

He sabotaged her transfer of the bioweapon by telling Stan, which got William arrested and dead.

Duh! Of course. I somehow forgot that was her operation. Thanks!

[Ina123]

6 hours ago, RedHawk said:

So Stan could’ve just peeked into their basement window this whole time?

I wanted to throw something against the wall when they panned back to show the camera shot into the window. Nah...no way they leave that window uncovered. That was disappointing.

Otherwise a good episode.

[BingeyKohan]

Cougar on the prowl in the DC area! Totally agree it was a little cheap to have Paige hear about a seductive older woman at a frat party and think ‘Gawd my mom is so embarrassing.’ (Also, isn’t that the plot of the new Melissa McCarthy movie?)

I thought since we’re in Weisberg/Fields hands the rest of the run this episode would be a bit more...masterful...but still a lot to like. Did we hear a whisper of Elizabeth’s Russian accent in her vein-popping at Paige? I wanted just a hint more of that cracked veneer. I liked how that sequence began with her washing off her last mask, basically. (Although I swear this was the ep with a credited water safety person on set -surely that wasn’t so Keri Russell could wash her face and Margo Martindale could ladle stew.)

[BingeyKohan]

Question about the interrogation scene with the priest who was not Andrei: he’s about to name another Father when the knock on the door interrupts him. Is there meaning to that? Are we supposed to care about the loyalties of now a third priest? Father Renee?