Social And Race Issues In Black-Ish

[David T. Cole]

Socialy! Racey!

[Kromm]

He's black!  He's rich!  This causes problems!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNqqjDv6_dU

[Mozelle]

I'm actually pateintly waiting for this. I like Tracee Ellis Ross (there's still a lot of goodwill from her time on Girlfriends), so I hope the show is well-written and does well. 

[Shannon L.]

Omg. I have a friend who is working on this.  I stopped by set one day to pick something up from him and asked what he was working on.  When he said "Blackish", I said "Wow." and he and his coworker both said "That'll change because it will never fly".  Ha!  I think this looks like fun.  I'll definitely give it a shot. 

[aradia22]

I was really not sold on this after watching the short trailer but now that I've seen the longer trailer, I'm cautiously in. I can definitely see this going wrong or being too safe (and thus dropping off my watchlist when all the other shows come out to play a la Trophy Wife). The acting and writing already has me a little nervous. Sometimes the actors seem there and sometimes they don't seem into it. I always look at the eyes. There are moments in the trailer where Anthony Anderson seems to be in the catatonic state he was in for his brief appearance on Rake, moments where he's shouting a la Hollywood Game Night, and moments where he seems to be awake and engaged. However, I think the concept has potential and of course I'm going to champion this new crop of shows that are attempting to bring some diversity to network TV (and not in the way Rob or Welcome to the Family recently tried to). 

[honybr]

Well I love all things Anthony Anderson and Laurence Fishburne so I'm certainly going to be watching.  The trailer did make me laugh so I have high hopes. 

[Kromm]

Well I love all things Anthony Anderson and Laurence Fishburne so I'm certainly going to be watching.  The trailer did make me laugh so I have high hopes. 

Larry potentially elevates this for me a lot more than Anderson.

[lion10]

So because he's successful, he's lost touch of what it means to be black?  Instead of expanding the definition of what it means to be black, he's going to try to fit into preconceived notions of blackness.  It just reinforces the idea that in order to "make it", black people have to give up their culture.  That's just low key prejudice.  And while it's unrealistic, I'd like to see shows starring black people that don't make race one of their key themes.  That's one of the reasons I really like Community.  Troy and Shirley's blackness is brought up but it's not a main point/characterization and almost all of their humor isn't race related.

[emma675]

 

Well I love all things Anthony Anderson and Laurence Fishburne so I'm certainly going to be watching.  The trailer did make me laugh so I have high hopes.

Ditto! I keep seeing more and more ads for this on ABC, so I have hopes that they'll do a good job promoting it and it will find an audience.

[Mozelle]

Nope. And I like Anthony Anderson.

Flip it to a show called White ish. You think that would fly? Hell no. So why is this ok?

 

 

The above quote is from the Pilot episode thread.

 

I don't really understand this. This complaint about "Oh, if this happened with white people..." just never really rings true to me because it's completely devoid of any acknowledgment about why black-ish is a thing for many, many black people in this country. Further, Black-ish would work as a show for any other ethnic minority (Indian-ish, Iranian-ish, Chinese-ish, Mexican-ish) in the U.S. because the "default" existence in the United States is white.

 

Actually, if you want to go "back to the future," so to speak, 100 years ago, guess what? "White-ish" would work. Except it would probably be called "Italian-ish" or "Irish-ish"...you know the immigrant groups that didn't fall under the umbrella of WASP at the turn of the 20th century? But now that Italians and Irish have been fully incorporated into the term "white" as opposed to any sort of specific ethnic outsider, a show called White-ish doesn't make much sense.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Mozelle

[Cherry Cola]

The above quote is from the Pilot episode thread.

I don't really understand this. This complaint about "Oh, if this happened with white people..." just never really rings true to me because it's completely devoid of any acknowledgment about why black-ish is a thing for many, many black people in this country. Further, Black-ish would work as a show for any other ethnic minority (Indian-ish, Iranian-ish, Chinese-ish, Mexican-ish) in the U.S. because the "default" existence in the United States is white.

Actually, if you want to go "back to the future," so to speak, 100 years ago, guess what? "White-ish" would work. Except it would probably be called "Italian-ish" or "Irish-ish"...you know the immigrant groups that didn't fall under the umbrella of WASP at the turn of the 20th century? But now that Italians and Irish have been fully incorporated into the term "white" as opposed to any sort of specific ethnic outsider, a show called White-ish doesn't make much sense.

I respect your view. Thanks for the input.

[ridethemaverick]

Mozelle, great post. I can never eloquently answer those "what if there was a WET station?" type questions because I'm always amazed that people actually think that way. Like black people can't even call ourselves black without upsetting white people? Is this really happening?

I think this show is an intimate look into how some of us black folks relate to each other when nobody else is around. That could be both good and bad. I'll keep watching to see.

[Mozelle]

Mozelle, great post. I can never eloquently answer those "what if there was a WET station?" type questions because I'm always amazed that people actually think that way. Like black people can't even call ourselves black without upsetting white people? Is this really happening?

I think this show is an intimate look into how some of us black folks relate to each other when nobody else is around. That could be both good and bad. I'll keep watching to see.

 

A friend of mine had some angst about that. Three of us have our little chat group, and the night before the premiere, one friend wanted to know when Black-ish was going to start. The other friend in the chat was very wary mainly because of the show's title.* In addition, he was concerned about whether the show would play to stereotypes. I had to remind him, though, that we all kiki it up when RHOATL is on, yet he was still unconvinced, saying that with RHOATL at least you know where the show stands.

 

I think I've been optimistic about this show partly because I adore Tracee Ellis Ross and welcome her back on my (laptop) screen. The other reason why I am optimistic is that it does, as you say, take a look at how some of us relate to each other when no is watching, so to speak. Not everyone is going to get some things while other things may be universal, and I'd like to think that the show will be able to strike a nice balance between the two.

 

*The concern about the show's title is also interesting to me. It certainly is a provocative title, but then I think of other shows with fairly benign titles that trot out the most offensive and egregious material (e.g., Girlfriend Intervention, any Tyler Perry movie).

[Cherry Cola]

Mozelle, great post. I can never eloquently answer those "what if there was a WET station?" type questions because I'm always amazed that people actually think that way. Like black people can't even call ourselves black without upsetting white people? Is this really happening?

I think this show is an intimate look into how some of us black folks relate to each other when nobody else is around. That could be both good and bad. I'll keep watching to see.

Lol. Obviously people think that way or there wouldn't be a show called blackish. I mean no disrespect to anyone, I just don't like the premise. I guess I don't understand why them being black has to be in the title and brought up constantly on the show. 

Edited September 27, 2014 by Frootloop Dingus

[DollEyes]

 

I guess I don't understand why them being black has to be in the title and brought up constantly on the show.

 

  Because it's a show about how a Black family deals with life in a world where many Whites still stereotype them, whether they know they're doing it or not. However, the show also proves that crazy comes in all colors, including Black. For example, when Andre' assumed that he was getting promoted to full partner of the advertising firm where he works only to learn that he's just working for the "Urban" Division (aka "'Black' stuff"), he was hurt, but the way he handled it-by making a commercial that perpetuated all the worst stereotypes about Black people-almost got him fired. Then there was the scene when he accused his wife Rainbow of not being "Black enough," for which she promptly and rightly put him on blast. It's not a "perfect" show, but IMO there are much more offensive stereotypes of Black people in Tyler Perry movies. As far as I'm concerned, if people of color weren't still being discriminated against despite the progress of the last few decades, networks like BET and shows like Black-ish might not exist in the first place. 

Edited September 27, 2014 by DollEyes

[Corazi]

For example, when Andre' assumed that he was getting promoted to full partner of the advertising firm where he works only to learn that he's just working for the "Urban" Division (aka "'Black' stuff"), he was hurt, but the way he handled it-by making a commercial that perpetuated all the worst stereotypes about Black people-almost got him fired.

 

I thought that Andre's point with the commercial was to show the way black people or people of color in general were still being mistreated and stereotyped by others in LA because that's the way he felt in the company after being promoted to the Urban Division. It was interesting to see the looks on the other executives faces after his original commercial.

 

I have a question and I'm sorry if I offend anyone with it, I swear that's not the intent. I'm just curious to know if people actually spend a lot of time at home discussing their own race/heritage. On the show it seemed like that was the only thing Andre and his family talked about and I think it's just so we can get to know the family more, but it did make me wonder if that's common for people of any race.

[drmka9]

 

I have a question and I'm sorry if I offend anyone with it, I swear that's not the intent. I'm just curious to know if people actually spend a lot of time at home discussing their own race/heritage. On the show it seemed like that was the only thing Andre and his family talked about and I think it's just so we can get to know the family more, but it did make me wonder if that's common for people of any race.

 

I'm white, but on one side my family is made up of pretty recent (only one or two generations back) immigrants. That side of the family definitely talks about how American (or not) any of my relatives is acting. It's a weird line between wanting your kids to have a better life than you, and not wanting your kids to lose track of their roots or how much work their parents or grandparents put in to give them that better life. So far, I'm finding that blackish is handling that line pretty well.

[BoogieBurns]

I have a question and I'm sorry if I offend anyone with it, I swear that's not the intent. I'm just curious to know if people actually spend a lot of time at home discussing their own race/heritage. On the show it seemed like that was the only thing Andre and his family talked about and I think it's just so we can get to know the family more, but it did make me wonder if that's common for people of any race.

 

I'm black and we talk about it in phases. Sometimes we have conversations around the table just like Andre and his family. Most of the time we are discussing current events and we focus more on the ones where race is brought up. It's definitely not the only thing we talk about. 

[DollEyes]

  Re the commercial, while Andre' may have felt mistreated by the company, I believe he could have/should have handled it much better. About how I discuss race-related issues with my family, we don't spend every waking moment discussing it, but when it comes up, we deal with it in a mature and honest way.

[Corazi]

Thank you for your responses. I'm not American, I moved here a few years ago to continue my education so I didn't know if that was typical since there's so many different cultures here. I can understand wanting to maintain your heritage. It also makes sense that the typical family would take the time to discuss current issues that are more racially relevant to them in depth. I appreciate your well-put replies.

[mojito]

 

Lol. Obviously people think that way or there wouldn't be a show called blackish. I mean no disrespect to anyone, I just don't like the premise. I guess I don't understand why them being black has to be in the title and brought up constantly on the show.

I think the title is kind of comical. I'm okay with it. I'm hoping that all the black talk will tone down in future episodes. Pilots sometimes go a little overboard in trying to establish characters.

 

I have a question and I'm sorry if I offend anyone with it, I swear that's not the intent. I'm just curious to know if people actually spend a lot of time at home discussing their own race/heritage.

No offense taken here. In fact, I think it's an excellent question. Growing up, we rarely talked race in my house. However, my father spent one Saturday night away from the family one weekend to attend the March on Washington in 1963. So it's not like we were living in denial.  My mother was worried. I think the amount people talk about race is related to how much crap they have to put up with on a regular basis. I rarely put up with much crap in my life; the same with my friends. So we, too, only talk race if there's a current event that's taken over the news. That doesn't mean we don't joke now and then about our "culture", which, for some of us, is kind of an awkward word since unlike many whites in America, our black heritage only goes back a century and a half as far as we know. And even at that, it's tough to find records on people (for instance, my mother has no birth certificate).

 

My interpretation of Dre is feeling a little guilty at the lack of strife in his current life and feels that he and his family should retain some kind of "edge". He's having a hard time seeing his family evolve into mainstream America because in his mind, it's unrealistic for a black family to assimilate somewhat effortlessly. He is poised for trouble but his family isn't.

 

Corazi, I think maintaining heritage is a great thing as long as we take the "American" side of the hyphenated word (as in Mexican-, Indian-, etc.) seriously and be Americans and recognize others as fellow Americans first and foremost.

[Nanrad]

"So because he's successful, he's lost touch of what it means to be black? Instead of expanding the definition of what it means to be black, he's going to try to fit into preconceived notions of blackness. It just reinforces the idea that in order to "make it", black people have to give up their culture. That's just low key prejudice. And while it's unrealistic, I'd like to see shows starring black people that don't make race one of their key themes. That's one of the reasons I really like Community. Troy and Shirley's blackness is brought up but it's not a main point/characterization and almost all of their humor isn't race related."

Lion, I've never seen community, but this show is about blackness and how said black person views his or herself. Granted, your comment was made before the premiere, but the show is about analyzing what it means to be black in America, so the issue is good to be focused on. Most black cannot avoid talking about their race whether or not they brought it up or someone else did. As a black person, I can go days and weeks without really talking about race, months maybe. But, years? No. Being black in America means that you are reminded of your blackness in some capacity--by a black person, white person, etc.

The show is about expanding the definition of what it means to be black all while examining various generations of black people and their behaviors towards race/identity. I don't think we are always supposed to agree with Andre.

Personally, not only would I find the unrealistic, but it would the show offensive if race was never a topic in a black show. The show time series "soul food" which was based on a movie of the same name was about a black family. They brought up race issues, but it wasn't all black all of the time. They had different sort of black characters: the uppity black sister who did "white" things. The sister who was about black pride. The youngest who was about having fun, but also cared about the status of the black community. The son of the woman all about black pride really wasn't about race, so he wasn't obsessing over it. But, then the topic of his dating preferences was brought up because he only dated light skinned girls. Or the uppity olde sister explaining how stressful it was to have her "blackness" questioned by blacks themselves.

Even the little things: speaking grammatically correct as a black person is seen as "talking" white, listening to non r&b/hip hop is said to be listening to "white" music--dating a white person is selling out and wanting to be white. Black women are criticized having "nappy" hair, which is their natural hair. If they relax it or wear a weave, they are criticized about that too. As a black person, some of us are constantly reminded that we are black. So a show that doesn't speak on race, isn't reflective of many black Americans existence. The show is refreshing because it tries to tackle issues we face everyday.

[LJonEarth]

So because he's successful, he's lost touch of what it means to be black?  Instead of expanding the definition of what it means to be black, he's going to try to fit into preconceived notions of blackness.  It just reinforces the idea that in order to "make it", black people have to give up their culture.  That's just low key prejudice.  And while it's unrealistic, I'd like to see shows starring black people that don't make race one of their key themes.  That's one of the reasons I really like Community.  Troy and Shirley's blackness is brought up but it's not a main point/characterization and almost all of their humor isn't race related.

 

I get where you're coming from, but most of the black people I know deal with race issues on an overtly and fairly frequent basis, if not in public, in our homes. It's a daily thing. As things are now, it's inescapable for many of us.

 

I would love blackness to be anything under the sun, but we aren't there yet from white people or black people. I told my white boss that my dad used to play Paul Simon for me as a baby. And he joke, "that's awfully white for your dad."

 

It's funny that you bring up Shirley and Troy, because I've heard and read interviews from both Donald Glover and Yvette Nicole Brown discuss being called Oreos and dealing with racist/prejudiced nonsense.

 

Perhaps one of the plans for the show is to get people to drop these preconceived notions through AA's character's growth and person. That's not going to happen in one episode or one season. It hasn't happened in 150 years. But nothing in the first episode was untrue to real life.

 

But, there have been shows about black people where race wasn't the main theme: Living Single, Amen, 227 (if I remember it correctly), The Cosby Show and A Different World, Sister Sister, Hanging With Mister Cooper, One on One. I could go on. The problem is they were/are treated as "black" or "alternative" shows. A majority black cast doesn't equal race as a key theme. Kind of like the controversy with "The Best Man Holiday" being called a "race-themed movie" in the media simply because it had black people on the movie posters. Or how books by black authors with black people on the covers are put in a special section of the bookstore regardless of the actual theme.

[mojito]

Totally agree about 227. Anyone remember "Frank's Place"?

[Trini]

Half And Half was another show with a Black cast that wasn't about about race (also the jokes weren't mostly race-based).

 

 

Or how books by black authors with black people on the covers are put in a special section of the bookstore regardless of the actual theme.

 

I was an intern for Essence Magazine one summer, and I know that they've had problems with their newsstand distributors because the magazine keeps getting placed with all the "Black" titles instead of positioned with the other fashion/lifestyle mags.

[LJonEarth]

I remember Franks Place! I was a bit young, but I remember it being a huge deal at the time. Too bad it didn't last.

 

It's so sad that I've forgotten about Half and Half. That was probably one of the best shows that UPN made and a great show all around.

 

I can't wait to see how the second episode of this show does. I'd also like to see who made up the 11 million debut and who will stick around for the second episode.

 

I was an intern for Essence Magazine one summer, and I know that they've had problems with their newsstand distributors because the magazine keeps getting placed with all the "Black" titles instead of positioned with the other fashion/lifestyle mags.

 

Even though I started it, I'm ashamed to say I never thought of Essence as a fashion mag. And I grew up reading it! That shows how brainwashed I am.

Edited September 30, 2014 by JinNashville

[Nanrad]

I loved Half and Half, it's a shame it was cancelled. They didn't deal with race much, but I enjoyed the episode where the guy didn't want to date Mona because she was black enough. It highlighted how blacks can even discriminate towards themselves.

[Mozelle]

Half And Half was another show with a Black cast that wasn't about about race (also the jokes weren't mostly race-based).

 

Actually, this makes me wonder if this was a result of the show being on the "black" network at the time? Does anyone remember UPN, which I think became the CW (?), and the WB? Those were essentially the black farms of television broadcasting, having more original content with majority black casts when compared to any of the big three networks.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Mozelle

[ribboninthesky1]

The WB and UPN got their start with primarily black sitcoms, some science fiction, and syndicated programming, if memory serves.  Fox also rose to prominence with "urban" programming like New York Undercover and Living Single.  Once these networks became "mainstream" (or striving for it), such programming was phased out.  The CW was a joint venture between CBS and Time Warner, who owned The WB. As a result, UPN was shut down, with some programs transitioning to the CW. 

 

I've debated on watching this show, though the title or content never concerned me.  I'm just not an Anthony Anderson fan.  But I like Laurence Fishbourne and Tracie Ellis Ross, so maybe I'll give it a shot.

Edited September 30, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[ridethemaverick]

People don't get accused of talking white for speaking Standard American English

They get accused of talking white because they sound nasally/valley and don't know how to code switch.

[LJonEarth]

People don't get accused of talking white for speaking Standard American English

They get accused of talking white because they sound nasally/valley and don't know how to code switch.

That's not necessarily true. My grandmother, several of her sisters, and my mother and her brother sound somewhere along the range of Oprah or Maya Angelou or Phylicia Rashad. They were accused of sounding white because they used Standard English, "big words," and because they got good grades. This is going to back to the late 40s for my grandma and the 60s and 70s for my mother. Well before the valley thing took hold.

 

I had a friend, who was also apparently mocked about this as a child, post yesterday about why code switching is unnecessary. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one doesn't do it. I can relate to whomever I need to relate with my words and experiences without affecting some voice or manner of speaking that isn't natural to how I was raised.

[La Tortuga]

 

I had a friend, who was also apparently mocked about this as a child, post yesterday about why code switching is unnecessary. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one doesn't do it. I can relate to whomever I need to relate with my words and experiences without affecting some voice or manner of speaking that isn't natural to how I was raised.

 

I think oral code switching (my professor would call it style shifting) may be unnecessary in relaxed settings, but necessary in formal ones. You're delivering not only a direct message, but information about yourself. If a banker or professor wishes to convey their education and professionalism to their bosses, coworkers, employees, clients, or students, they must remember that there is a negative social stigma attached to anything less than formal Standard English. Written code switching is also subject to setting-specific norms, and in some ways I think it is more strictly required. Police reports, memorandums, proposals, business correspondence, advertising, articles, etc. all require Standard English to be taken seriously and to signal competence. Professors get offended when students use overly informal language in emails, not because they don't understand the message, but because informality signals a lack of respect. Facebook posts are more relaxed, but because they are so public, there's always an element of judgment attached to grammar, slang, spelling, etc. Text messages, which are private and thus least likely to require code switching, are still scrutinized, even if they aren't commented on. So to say that code switching isn't necessary to communicate doesn't fully address the issue, I think; even if one successfully gets their message across, the other signals they send come through just as loud and become part of the information that the listener uses to form their opinion about the speaker.

[Jade Foxx]

 

even if one successfully gets their message across, the other signals they send come through just as loud and become part of the information that the listener uses to form their opinion about the speaker.

^^ also known as "linguistic profiling." The assumption of a person's intelligence/education based on they way they speak.

[ribboninthesky1]

People don't get accused of talking white for speaking Standard American English

They get accused of talking white because they sound nasally/valley and don't know how to code switch.

 

 

That's not necessarily true. My grandmother, several of her sisters, and my mother and her brother sound somewhere along the range of Oprah or Maya Angelou or Phylicia Rashad. They were accused of sounding white because they used Standard English, "big words," and because they got good grades. This is going to back to the late 40s for my grandma and the 60s and 70s for my mother. Well before the valley thing took hold.

 

I had a friend, who was also apparently mocked about this as a child, post yesterday about why code switching is unnecessary. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one doesn't do it. I can relate to whomever I need to relate with my words and experiences without affecting some voice or manner of speaking that isn't natural to how I was raised.

 

I assume it evolved.  Before formal education was more widely available to blacks, speaking "Standard" English likely was akin to "talking white." But as that's changed over the last several decades, I think what constitutes "talking white" switched from syntax to tone and/or diction.  I definitely code switch, especially around family or childhood friends and acquaintances.  But that's because I came of age in a small town in SW Georgia, where many of the older blacks either barely finished high school, and college was never on the radar (though community college aka trade school was sometimes an option).  That was passed down to their children, even as we had better educational opportunities. 

 

I suspect that if you grew up in a black family where multiple generations received (or were expected to receive) post-secondary education, or frankly, in an area where it was majority white, the code switching doesn't apply. 

 

Yes, linguistic profiling is absolutely real, though.  And regardless of race, I think that's why, for example, Southerners with a heavy accent are usually depicted as less intelligent, if at all.  But then again, on TV, I think anything that's not a "neutral," mid-Atlantic, or perhaps posh English accent is assumed indicative of lower intellect.

Edited October 2, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[BoogieBurns]

They get accused of talking white because they sound nasally/valley

 

Well, what is a black person who was born in the valley supposed to do? (I'm talking about me.) 

 

Just funny to me that speaking a certain way isn't based on where you learned how to speak. I'm not going to sound like a black girl from Chicago; not because one of us is more black, but because we learned words from the people around us. There isn't one way to sound black. There isn't even a consensus on what it means in this thread alone. 

[ribboninthesky1]

I think the sounding black/white thing is as much about class as regional accents.  Fact is, most US blacks were and are raised in the Southeastern part of the United States (and that's not counting those with family ties to the South and carried those cultural ties with them during the Great Migrations), with a disproportionate part of the population being working class or working poor.

 

So I don't deny the existence and pervasiveness of AAVE, and I know that dialect is what a lot of blacks grew up around.  That said, I agree there's no one way to sound black.

[Nanrad]

Funny enough, I was just having this argument today on FaceBook. lol

[mojito]

 

My grandmother, several of her sisters, and my mother and her brother sound somewhere along the range of Oprah or Maya Angelou or Phylicia Rashad.

Few people talk like Maya Angelou talked (Barbara Jordan comes to mind). They both had this kind of affected, stage accent. I always wondered when/how they acquired those accents, and I'd bet money they were acquired.

 

I'm probably older than most people here; I was accused of talking "white" as a kid in the early 70s, but not much. To be honest, though I wasn't a bold, confident teenager, and I lived in a predominantly black neighborhood and associated with all the kids my age, the people who made comments like this didn't shame me into talking differently and I easily shook them off. Even at a young age, I could understand that they were being petty and I didn't see see them heading in any direction that I wanted to head anyway. I'm surprised to hear that anyone still makes comments about talking "white" anymore.

 

Something that surprises me is a friend of mine who reads a lot and watches a lot of TV yet she'll still say, when in a formal setting, things like "he do" and "I had gave it to him". Sometimes I want to say, "Can't you discern the difference between how you're speaking and how most others speak?" But I guess it's like having an ear/aptitude for languages. Some people can imitate the accent of native speakers and catch on to the language, and some retain extremely thick accents despite having lived here for many, many years.

[jhlipton]

Re language:  Recently one of my FaceBook friends took umbrage at people (guess who?) using "ax" instead of "axe".  (This pronunciation is so ingrained in my wife that I asked her to say "Eskimo" and then "ask", and she said "ax". )  All the other commenters were in agreement that this was a major crime against humanity until it was pointed out that Chaucer used "ax".  Then it was OK!

[BoogieBurns]

From the Pilot Thread:

 

The only part I didn't like was Andre telling his wife she wasn't really black. Not cool.

 

The conversation has died down about this line from the pilot. So, I figured I'd try and break it down for anyone who still felt uneasy by the "insult" of Andre telling Rainbow she isn't really black. 

 

Okay, so imagine you wear reading glasses and you are on a road trip with your spouse. You with me? Okay. The driver says to you, "Check the map for my next exit." Then you grab the map, and try to read it. Driver knows the exit is coming up soon. You squint and still haven't found the exit because you need your glasses. The driver spouse says, "Just hand me the map, you are blind anyways."

 

That's about how much weight his comment had in the grand scheme of things. He was being dramatic because he wanted to have a little fit. But he didn't really do any damage. It's one of those things where it is only insulting if it comes from a stranger. 

 

I realize after writing this that no one asked me to explain it a different way. But, I'm really bored at work today. 

[topanga]

I loved last night's episode (The Nod). But one thing I didn't like: this was the first time I felt that Andre Jr. didn't really know he was black. From a sociological standpoint, that is.

 

My disclaimer: Being black does not mean that a person has to listen to hip-hop or R & B music, speak Black English Vernacular, vote for President Obama (although...), be a good dancer or a good athlete, hang out with black people in his or her free time, or nod to other black people.

 

But in last night's episode, when Andre Sr. realized his son didn't know what the nod was or why black men share this unspoken moment of camaraderie, I wonder why this was just now becoming an issue at age 13. 

 

Laurence Fishbourne talked about Andre Jr. not knowing about the "struggle." And Rainbow jumped in with "Can we please stop talking about the struggle?" But black men (and women) do have an ongoing struggle--one that's often more subtle than being shot by the police or getting lynched or not being allowed to vote.

 

And I find it hard to believe that Andre Jr. has never been part of that struggle, even in--or especially in--his private and I'm assuming progressive high school. Especially if he's one of the only African-American kids at his school. Multiple sociological studies show that teachers initially have lower academic expectations of black and Latino children, regardless of socioeconomic status. Meaning that when Andre walks into a class on the first day of school, his teachers are likely to assume that he will not perform as well other children in the class. Andre has skipped a grade in school, so we know he's smart. He'll quickly dispel a teacher's negative assumptions. But he still would've had to deal with those initial assumptions and would have had the burden of "proving" to his teachers that he's academically competent. Children of most other races don't begin the school year with that burden of proof.

 

And even if nothing ever happened to him personally, does his ignorance mean that the family has never talked about racial issues in the news? Rodney King, Ferguson, MO, Treyvon Martin, Jordan Davis? Or even their own experiences with race? If so, then this is a failure on the part of his parents and grand-parents. That is, if they allow Andre Jr. to grow into manhood without knowing that black men are sometimes treated differently than people of other races.

 

My post is already long, so I'll stop here.

 

[BoogieBurns]

Multiple sociological studies show that teachers initially have lower academic expectations of black and Latino children, regardless of socioeconomic status. Meaning that when Andre walks into a class on the first day of school, his teachers are likely to assume that he will not perform as well other children in the class.

 

This is true, but it is very easy for a kid to not notice any of this is going on. I never realized anything about my race until I was around his age. Ignorance is bliss, especially for sheltered kids. I knew I was black, but I didn't know how it could possibly be seen as a bad thing. 

 

I feel like we should be friends, Topanga :-)

[Mozelle]

I think that there's something to be said about going to school in a diverse city because then that feeds into the school population. I grew up in L.A. and did school there up until freshman year of high school. My mother and I moved across the country to Maryland just before my sophomore year of high school. In L.A., I went to school with black kids, Latino kids, Asian kids, Pacific Islander kids, white kids, South Asian kids. Where we moved in Maryland was predominantly white in the mid-90s; the demographics there now have changed slightly, though it is still predominantly white. It was like a reverse culture shock for me!

[ridethemaverick]

Well, what is a black person who was born in the valley supposed to do? (I'm talking about me.)

Just funny to me that speaking a certain way isn't based on where you learned how to speak. I'm not going to sound like a black girl from Chicago; not because one of us is more black, but because we learned words from the people around us. There isn't one way to sound black. There isn't even a consensus on what it means in this thread alone.

I guess just be yourself. Your tone doesn't make YOU less black.

I'm just tired of wanna be exceptional black folks thinking they're the only ones who are proficient at SAE. We get it, you (general) like to read. Guess what? So do a lot of us. Some of us even have graduate degrees and speak SAE perfectly and still have never been mistaken for white or told we talk or act white. So please spare me the YouTube diatribes furthering this stupid myth that black people mock intelligence because it just ain't true.

Sorry, I had a moment. :)

Amen Topanga!

Dre dropped the ball a long time ago. I can't wait for him to take responsibility for his son's colorblindness. They've never sat down as a family and watched Roots? Something, anything. Does JR know anything about slavery? Civil rights?

What am I saying. They didn't even know why Obama's presidency was important.

I'm sure there's a way to send your black children to predominately white schools and not have them end up completely clueless.

[BoogieBurns]

I'm sure there's a way to send your black children to predominately white schools and not have them end up completely clueless.

 

The daughter didn't seem clueless at all. Whatever that's worth. 

[truthaboutluv]

What am I saying. They didn't even know why Obama's presidency was important.

 

 

As I recall, the twins were the ones who didn't really seem to understand the big deal about Obama being president which is not surprising seeing as he's been the president for most of their life. Considering Andre Jr. is a bonafide nerd I find it highly unlikely that he doesn't know about the Civil Rights Movement or slavery or any other major black historical events. I don't get the sense that the issue with Andre Jr. or his sister is that they have no clue about black history and struggles but that as kids who weren't raised around these struggles and much of their reality has been private school which is predominantly white, a nice big house, neighbors who are mostly white, etc. they aren't as conscious and aware of some of the realities of being black that still exists today. 

 

This reminds me of one of my favorite episodes of The Fresh Prince Of Bel-Air where Carlton and Will got lost while driving Philip's business partner's car and the two white police officers arrested them because they were certain they'd stolen the car. After Philip and Vivian get them out, Carlton makes the comment that he understands that the police were just doing their job because they saw two strangers driving very slowly and it had to seem suspicious to him. Will, having been raised in an inner city neighborhood in Philadelphia before moving to Bel Air basically tells Carlton he's naive if he thinks that's why the police arrested them and the show ends with Carlton still trying to convince himself that's all it was. Because Carlton, with how he was raised, wanted to believe that color didn't exist and that people were just people and that there was no way that the police could have come after them because they were black. 

 

So my point is I don't think Junior doesn't know he's black or doesn't know about or understand the past struggles of black people. I just think because of the environment and reality he's been exposed to so far in life, he's one of those who probably does believe that he lives in a post-racial world. And so to him, it doesn't matter that his friends are white because it's not about that, but rather about the things they have in common. Unfortunately, yeah Junior is the kind of person who when faced directly with racism in their life it could be very traumatizing. 

Edited October 10, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[ridethemaverick]

Struggles? Black history/the black experience isn't only about struggles. In fact, there are as many triumphs as there are struggles struggles. And in my experience, kids who know and understand these things aren't nearly as clueless and colorblind as Jr.

[Mozelle]

Struggles? Black history/the black experience isn't only about struggles. In fact, there are as many triumphs as there are struggles struggles. And in my experience, kids who know and understand these things aren't nearly as clueless and colorblind as Jr.

 

See, I get this. At the same time, though, Dre and Pops have been more focused on the struggle, so to speak. Wasn't that largely what the conversation was about when they had Junior at the dinner table? 

 

What's also interesting is that Dre is so concerned about Junior's development. It could be because he's his oldest son and therefore he wants the kid to be a reflection of him, but Dre isn't having any of these "Oh, God! Is my kid not understanding the struggle? Oh God! Is my kid being 'post-racial'?" ("post-racial"...because that ish don't exist) moments with Zoe. 

[ridethemaverick]

See, I get this. At the same time, though, Dre and Pops have been more focused on the struggle, so to speak. Wasn't that largely what the conversation was about when they had Junior at the dinner table?

What's also interesting is that Dre is so concerned about Junior's development. It could be because he's his oldest son and therefore he wants the kid to be a reflection of him, but Dre isn't having any of these "Oh, God! Is my kid not understanding the struggle? Oh God! Is my kid being 'post-racial'?" ("post-racial"...because that ish don't exist) moments with Zoe.

See I don't think "the struggle" is the same as struggles. I think the struggle is just about black folks sticking together because we need each other. Like obviously Charlie and Dre have each other's backs at work even though Charlie is a habitual line stepper LOL. You don't have to be best friends, but you need to understand the significance of your race and having somebody else of your race in your corner or even in the vicinity. Which is also one of the positives of being black, IMO.

I think masculinity is definitely a factor here. Dre wants his son to receive all the benefits that have accrued to him as a black male (namely "swag" and "cool") and in his eyes, Jr is wasting his potential. I think, racial issues aside, that Jr is refreshingly NOT cool and it's nice to see him NOT using his black currency (so to speak) at his white school because I've seen that become...well, a modern dag minstrel show.

[Nanrad]

I think the struggle is acknowledging that you (blacks; whether specific or general), have to fight twice as hard to get half as much.