S06.E06: Rififi

[Bannon]

22 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I can't remember who it was that predicted there would be similarities between what really happened in the USA when they discovered that large cluster of Russian spies. But I thought it was extremely clever for them to see that would be coming.

I'll be very glad when this show gets back to the conflicts that P&E are trying to solve in the remaining shows. There is just not enough time left and I hope they don't fail to show us a meaningful end to this saga. I'm really disappointed with the way we haven't seen or heard anything from Henry for so long and now he is apparantly all grown up and ready to help out his "poor old Dad" with his financial trouble. Does that make much sense to you? It sure don't make much sense to me.

The entire tuition squeeze is nonsensical. I wish the writers had taken the time to think this through better, once the decision (and not a bad one on its face, in my opinion) was made to put Phil under financial stress.

[SunnyBeBe]

So what happens if the intern calls the number E gave him on that card, but, she can't get back with him, because she's on a mission in Chicago?  I assume the answering service will answer that number as the firm she said she worked for and tell him they will give her the message. I suppose the Chicago mission was more urgent. 

I'm not sure I buy the method Aderholt said they would track down car sales by title.  Was this for the commonwealth of VA only? 

What was that story that Henry was telling when he and his dad were playing race cars? 

Edited May 3, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Blakeston]

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wasn't sure what E's scheme was with the intern. Was she feeling him out to see what might be his biggest vulnerability?  I didn't get that she was trying to flirt. She's attractive for her age, but, that's kind of a stretch, no?

I definitely think she was flirting.

And I think most straight, male, college-age film geeks would be all over a woman who looks like Elizabeth (if she didn't come on super-strong in a suspicious way, like Liz did). They might not be interested in a relationship - but a roll in the hay is another matter.

[suomi]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

To be fair to Paige, sometimes it is easier to notice when things in a family are a bit "off" when you are far away from said family for a while and then come back home.  There are no subtle changes for Henry to witness, because he has been away for so long.   He gets basically the before and after of the Jennings' family dynamics.  Page has been there all along, the changes she has witnessed are more gradual for her, because she never left.

Like a frog simmering in a pan of water on the stove.

[skippylou]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Henry might be fine on his own, but Paige is the type to join a cult.  I don't have much faith that she can do much more than tie her own shoes.

Absolutely!  If Paige is stuck in an airport for a few hours with Hare Krishnas or  Moonies,  she is gone, gone, gone.  

[hellmouse]

3 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Phillip explaining why Elizabeth wasn’t attending Thanksgiving dinner was the worst, most obvious, over-long and overly detailed lie he’s ever told Stan.

ITA. Fortunately for Philip, Stan then preceded to deliver that bizarre Thanksgiving toast, so I'd bet most of the people there would remember as the distinguishing feature of that dinner, rather than Elizabeth's absence. 

[hellmouse]

55 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wasn't sure what E's scheme was with the intern. Was she feeling him out to see what might be his biggest vulnerability?  I didn't get that she was trying to flirt. She's attractive for her age, but, that's kind of a stretch, no?

I think she was looking for his biggest vulnerability. Start with sex  - she flirts and he's mildly interested but not enough. Move on to money - she's now a consultant who might be able to help him get a job. Will he take that bait? 

It would be horrible for all involved if she ends up deciding she needs to use Paige as bait. Paige would be thrilled to be involved. But then Elizabeth would be pimping out her daughter for 'the cause'. I think she'd be disgusted with herself. 

[skippylou]

Paige hasn't even connected the dots of the butchered navy security guy or the "suicide" of the general yet.   She will never be able to pick up on the subtle clues necessary to spycraft.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 minutes ago, skippylou said:

Paige hasn't even connected the dots of the butchered navy security guy or the "suicide" of the general yet.   She will never be able to pick up on the subtle clues necessary to spycraft.

Yeah, she and Stan have some commonalities. lol 

[Sarah 103]

This is another episode where the time jump killed them. I wished we could have seen Aderholt working on the investigation and piecing everything together over time instead of getting a giant info dump. I hope we get to see more of the cat and house going forward. 

Henry is so perceptive. He hasn't been home long and he realizes something is wrong with Elizabeth. He would have made a great spy. 

Elizabeth went with the wrong tactic talking to Phil about the Chicago trip. She should have played to his emotions. "What if one of us was in trouble. Wouldn't you want someone from our side to help?" 

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode.  

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, Pink-n-Green said:

I found something interesting in this episode!  The banter between Elizabeth and the young man in the movie theater made me wonder if the young man is a second generation illegal. 

No, he's just an intern in an office where Elizabeth wants to be. If he was already an Illegal she'd be in there already. But I agree that her original banter with her sounded like two spies giving passwords to each other.

 

10 hours ago, Erin9 said:

When it comes to his goals, he sure is a good planner, calculated, good at playing every possible angle, and self interested in his approach. I’m sure he’ll be fine. But he seems a bit cold when it comes to what he wants- and what he’ll do to get it, like talk about his dad’s business problems. Not that I ever have bought his all consuming need to go to boarding school. (There are so many things I’d like Philip to talk about and spend his limited time on - and financial problems, the travel agency, and boarding school don’t make my list.)

 

Yeah, I've always thought that was part of his character. Everybody keeps trying to make him some poor orphan who raised himself but I think his home life was just fine. His parents work a lot and he has a sister who's a total attention suck even at 19 so of course he got pushed aside. He has Philip's basic personality without the emotional damage, so he doesn't fight for attention, he just goes off and does his own thing. He's interested in his parents when he wants them; when he's interested in something else he's not.

I remember, for instance, when he made that dinner for his parents and some people thought he was just being thoughtful and his parents were terrible for looking confused about it I thought no, he figured out a way to spend time with the girl he liked and look like a great guy in front of her. His parents understood they'd walked into a set up where they were expected to play a part that wasn't real.

But still, yeah, I wish the stuff with Philip was either a little less mushy or just cut down to size. I don't actually care about the difficulties of "the American dream" and him being emasculated from all sides all the time. Once again the story where he's actually a hero was sort of an afterthought, though I guess there still isn't much movement in it so there's nothing to show. It's hard to imagine what he even said to Oleg about what he found and they're not telling us. Henry's firmer grasp on how America works (telling Philip that if he doesn't graduate from St. Edmund's it was all for naught) didn't, for me, land in such a way that I was really getting how it all fit together and affected him. (Henry reflecting capitalism there--at first he just wanted to go to the school but now that means nothing if he doesn't graduate from the school. In a year the school will be useless if he doesn't get into and graduate from an ivy league and on and on and on. His expectations rise to meet the rich people around him.)

Thinking about it now it seems like Philip's just a person surrounded by people who all need something from him and are making demands on him while saying he's the selfish one who's let them down. The only person who seems to approach him with reasonable respect is Oleg. It's funny that Henry seems to somehow understand that Elizabeth has nothing to do with the business, either its mistakes or how to fix them, despite her taking off for Houston.

What, btw, do people make of his conclusions about the phone call? That is, his line about how he doesn't understand why Elizabeth is so sad since she has a pretty good life. I assume it's just the straight truth--Elizabeth doesn't appreciate any of the good things in her life. She can't wait to throw them all away for her mission. She chooses to be miserable and thinks it's a virtue to not find joy anywhere.

Oh, and it's a small thing but I thought it was an interesting "tell" on Elizabeth's part when she had no idea what Henry was talking about with his book. I'm sure there are American high school students who haven't had to read On Walden Pond, but it's very standard, at least for honors English. I certainly had to suffer through it. Iirc, it's partly about self-reliance (or the illusion of such since apparently the guy was going home regularly to have his mom do his laundry etc.) but also about the joy of the simple life, exactly the kind of thing Elizabeth would consider pointless.

Oh, and again it was funny that when she asked Henry's favorite subject it was American Lit. That's what he would be taking for AP junior year, but it's also a nice emphasis on how even Henry's favorite subject is specifically American. Meanwhile Paige is getting rudimentary Russian culture classes and still doesn't seem that interested in any kind of culture.

4 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Stan's speech: THAT was bad writing. It seemed like he was never going to stop talking. It wasn't particularly eloquent. It sounded like he was giving a speech to a incoming class of agents. And then to close it with, "let's eat" while Renee looked at him adoringly. Ack! I like Noah Emmerich but he couldn't pull that off.

 

Was the point of it just to underline the Cold War and Stan's renewed interest or was he supposed to be reflecting the hardliner view where everybody needs to "stay firm" instead of trying to negotiate? Reagan's actually more like Gorbachev, it seems when it comes to the peace talks.

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

To be fair to Paige,  sometimes it is easier to notice when things in a family are a bit "off" when you are far away from said family for a while and then come back home.  There are no subtle changes for Henry to witness, because he has been away for so long.   He gets basically the before and after of the Jennings' family dynamics.  Page has been there all along, the changes she has witnessed are more gradual for her, because she never left.

True, but Paige is also consistently shown focused entirely on herself while Henry, even before he got home, was shown picking up on changes in his dad's voice on the phone--and they have regular phone calls. This is pretty consistent throughout the show that Henry shows interest in people he's talking to while Paige is more interested in how they affect her.

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

On the other hand, if they have Liz honeypotting the intern, Paige finding out, and having a huge negative reaction to it, that's a scene that will force a house shaking eyeroll from me.

She might not be honeypotting him. She's claiming she might have a job for him. Honestly, I thought the kid might be gay--they finally introduced a male honeypotting another male in this episode. I thought he looked uncomfortable with her attention. Which could of course just be him being uncomfortable and straight, of course.

 

2 hours ago, teddysmom said:

I think Phillip is going to Chicago to stop Elizabeth, and to save her.  She is off the rails and he knows it. Maybe his message to Oleg was to warn him of what's going on.  

 

He's got nothing really to stop in Chicago. They're saving an Illegal. The fact that this Illegal is also involved in Elizabeth's plan doesn't really matter.

I really do love how for all her gritty determination to fulfill her mission Elizabeth is personally responsible for the FBI being onto them. And it comes down to exactly the thing she is without Philip--the way she doesn't care about people. She thinks her cold-blooded refusal to care about people is a strength when it turns out people actually notice and care when you kill a bunch of red shirts.

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So what happens if the intern calls the number E gave him on that card, but, she can't get back with him, because she's on a mission in Chicago?  I assume the answering service will answer that number as the firm she said she worked for and tell him they will give her the message. I suppose the Chicago mission was more urgent. 

 

It's Thanksgiving. There's no reason she should be at her office that day anyway. That said, it's kind of ridiculous how Elizabeth just keeps creating these personas and working new people in such a short time. Like this kid has to get in touch with her before the summit? He might not. She expects to work him up to telling her stuff she needs to know how fast?

38 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

It would be horrible for all involved if she ends up deciding she needs to use Paige as bait. Paige would be thrilled to be involved. But then Elizabeth would be pimping out her daughter for 'the cause'. I think she'd be disgusted with herself. 

Oh god, the last thing we need is more time spent on Paige doing an actual honeytrap. Luckily I assume she couldn't do it because this, as ever, is part of Elizabeth's secret mission. She needs to talk to the kid herself.

Though it would also be funny if the kid was gay and Paige tried, simply because her entire experience with honeytrapping is basically that she laughs prettily and the guy tells her stuff just for the pleasure of her company. 

22 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Elizabeth went with the wrong tactic talking to Phil about the Chicago trip. She should have played to his emotions. "What if one of us was in trouble. Wouldn't you want someone from our side to help?" 

 

But she wasn't trying to get him to go with her then. She just wanted to be angry that he wanted her to be at home. She wouldn't even flat-out ask him for help on the phone when he called her. Part of that is that she's angry over Kimmy, but it seemed like also she's just back to her place where she refuses to show any weakness. She can't tell Philip she needs him in Chicago--but she could ask him to play a part in her plot by sleeping with and helping to kidnap Kimmy. The latter was just him being directed by her. The former is her admitting she wants help. 

I guess it reflects everything about her spying now too. Sure she has some personas where she's a bit softer, but she's mostly approaching at all her missions by being cruel and trying to force people to do things through brute strength. Of course she'd even forget that Philip is *always* open to manipulation through his feeling of responsibility for others. He's even been trying to keep from firing people. But instead she indulged in her desire to lash out at him. Instead of saying "But this person needs you" she called him selfish.

Edited May 3, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Mumbles]

I love the show and all, but part of me thinks if it ends up that the Jennings' downfall is the result of the FBI catching and cracking an unrelated Soviet agent in another city whom we've never heard of before, it would be a cheap ending. I am keeping my mind open that there's more going on and the writers have a plan (for example they mentioned the Russian priest).

When Claudia was walking in the park with the head scarf and the thick wool coat and the dour expression I thought how stereotypically "Soviet" she looked.

From the opening "previously" reel, it occurred to me for the first time that Kimmie reminds me of "chicken lady" from Kids in the Hall (it's the way they style her!).

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Mumbles said:

I love the show and all, but part of me thinks if it ends up that the Jennings' downfall is the result of the FBI catching and cracking an unrelated Soviet agent in another city whom we've never heard of before, it would be a cheap ending. I am keeping my mind open that there's more going on and the writers have a plan (for example they mentioned the Russian priest).

 

But the Soviet agent in the other city isn't unrelated at all. They found him because Elizabeth made it so obvious the Russians were looking for that device. Now they're going to use the stuff they observed with him to Washington. The priest being one obvious example, but also the cars etc. 

[Chaos Theory]

I disagree completely about a lot of people’s interpretation of Paige.   She was younger then Henry is now when she found out that her parents are Soviet Spies.  If they told her literally anything else (even taking into account all of the Pastor Tim stuff) Paige probably would have gotten upset but eventually moved past it.  She was a kid and even religious ones do move on.  She probably would have too if dad had been cheating on mom with a woman named Martha or mom had a drug problem.   I think it would have thrown her but not stunted her for life.  She probably would have thrown herself into her religion and maybe been just a religious adult.  

Finding out mom and dad were Soviet spies who were hell bent on recruiting her was verging on abuse (I thing Pastor Tim even wrote as much in his diary).  It put her in conflict but gave her no emotional stability.  Paige isn’t stupid but she isn’t particularly emotionally stable either.  People have commented on her lack of interest in researching Russia but I don’t think she has any real insentive to.  The exact opposite.  Every time she has shown interest or initiative in anything she has been chastised harshly.  I think Paige is doomed not because of her personality or any character flaw but because her parents were so laser  focused on her.

Henry on the other hand was so virtually ignored he was allowed to grow and mature on his own.  He problem solves because he knows his parents have not really shown any interest in him.  He wants to graduate from his fancy school because he is right he is a senior and at this point getting kicked out would be a waste  of several years.   His problem solving should have made Philip proud but instead he seemed to be insulted.  I don’t think Henry was the least bit spoiled or entitled.  He was willing to do the work for what he wanted he was just hoping that for once his parents would acknowledge him.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[LMM]

8 hours ago, Cardie said:

 

9 hours ago, LMM said:

Elizabeth needed more specific info, and to get that specific info faster, than just listening to whatever happened to be recorded on the briefcase tape.

And yet, it seemed to me, that they thought they would be fine if only Kimmy came home for Thanksgiving and Philip could retrieve the tape.

 

When Philip told Elizabeth that Kimmy wasn’t coming home for Thanksgiving, that was before Elizabeth knew the Soviet negotiator was meeting with CIA alone in a hotel room. Elizabeth said it was a problem for Kimmy to be gone during that time because she was hoping for more pertinent info from the Breland tape before the summit.

Then Elizabeth saw the photos Paige took in the hotel hallway. That made Elizabeth more desperate for specific info regarding what the negotiator was doing with the CIA. She decided she needed more than just a tape of random conversations. She needed the answers before the summit, not necessarily on Thanksgiving. She just thought that would be a good time to execute a plan since Kimmy was going to be out of the country and more vulnerable at that time. 

[Sarah 103]

12 hours ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Oh, those things are annoying af. I totally empathized with Stan that time he kicked the tar out of it.

How does Mail Robot work, since you seem to be familiar with it. Does it go from floor to floor and assistants take the mail to deliver it to thier boss's desk? 

12 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I think the last time I rode I realized the stop announcements are now pre-recorded. I miss the drivers who put a lot of “personality” into their announcements. 

You are correct. Stop announcements are now pre-recorded. It's a trade off. On one hand you can clearly hear the name of the stop. On the other hand, you miss the clever/witty things the drivers would say, assuming you could hear them clearly.

11 hours ago, jjj said:

Did anyone else expect Philip to say "Chicago " at the dinner and the watch the alarm bells go off?

Philip isn't that stupid, which is why he picked a different city. 

11 hours ago, shura said:

The whole idea of the KGB being okay with Philip's "retirement" like that is lazy writing. He should have been evacuated back to the USSR a long time ago. But no, he is left free to roam around unsupervised and check on what secret shit Elizabeth has been doing and decide which operations to blow up. I am shocked Elizabeth didn't shoot him right there when he told her about Kimmie.

Until recently he was still working Kimmie. It was his only mission and we didn't see much of it but it was there. 

11 hours ago, Sader87 said:

Still not buying the "struggling travel agency" in the sense that it complicates their lives too much. I have to think the Soviets would want Henry to stay at that prep school, lessen family stress overall etc...it just doesn't make sense to me.

Agreed. There must be plenty of front groups the Soviets could have sent to the agency for travel planning. The Soviets, if they are aware, would totally want Henry to stay at the prep school. Just think of the connections he could make that will be useful years down the road or more immediately, the stray bits of information Philip could pick up at hockey games. 

11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Oh, and there was another car bought for cash, remember the one Stan bought for Nina?  It probably won't factor into anything, especially since Stan's covering the car stuff right now.

Stan has agents helping him with the paperwork, so it's possible someone might come across the car Stan bought for Nina. That would make a great scene or two. 

11 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Gee, you know what would be neat? If we maybe had some context for how he got into this job in the first place, given that he mentioned having grown up believing that working and protecting your family was the prime directive and yet somehow wound up completely cut off from them...

Agreed. We got tons of backstory for Elizabeth and next to nothing for Philip. I always hate it when TV shows do something like this. How do we get from the poor kid begging for food to someone being recuited by the KGB?

10 hours ago, Cardie said:

I have just returned to posting in this forum, but has anyone wondered why the Centre didn't just send a good lock-picker to get the tape from Kimmy's house in this one-time urgent situation rather than hatching bizarre Bulgarian kidnap plots.

I had the exact same thought. I get they couldn't do that on a regular basis but for a one time emergency situation it seemed far easier and cleaner than an elaborate international kidnapping plot. 

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Maybe they should have Paige get in touch with him.

It would be fantastic to watch Paige fail on an epic level and to have Elizabeth find out she failed on an epic level. 

2 hours ago, teddysmom said:

Does Elizabeth really think that kid is going to be into her that much?  She's over playing that by a lot. 

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wasn't sure what E's scheme was with the intern. Was she feeling him out to see what might be his biggest vulnerability?  I didn't get that she was trying to flirt. She's attractive for her age, but, that's kind of a stretch, no?

Maybe she saw The Graduate at some point and thought "Why not? It's worth a try."

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So what happens if the intern calls the number E gave him on that card, but, she can't get back with him, because she's on a mission in Chicago?  I assume the answering service will answer that number as the firm she said she worked for and tell him they will give her the message. I suppose the Chicago mission was more urgent. 

That's what I figured. The answering service will tell him she's out of the office or in a meeting or a million other reasons for not being able to pick up the phone. As long as she returns his calls it shouldn't be too big of a problem. 

[Dev F]

18 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But still, yeah, I wish the stuff with Philip was either a little less mushy or just cut down to size. I don't actually care about the difficulties of "the American dream" and him being emasculated from all sides all the time.

The purpose of those scenes was a little more specific this week, though. It was about him bristling at the idea that his son would have to go off on his own and work in a tannery because he was a failure, which contributed to him deciding that he couldn't let Liz go off on a dangerous mission on her own because he let her down so badly.

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, teddysmom said:

Nice catch!!!  No Way Out is pretty good. that ending was crazy. 

I think the actress who played Sofia was on the next to last episode of Homeland. I thought I recognized her. She played a Russian translator for  the US embassy.  And Oleg was a main character as well.  Homeland is over so they can't cast anymore The Americans supporting actors. 

I think Phillip is going to Chicago to stop Elizabeth, and to save her.  She is off the rails and he knows it. Maybe his message to Oleg was to warn him of what's going on.  

Matthew Rhys better get an Emmy nomination. He is just fantastic this season.   

Does Elizabeth really think that kid is going to be into her that much?  She's over playing that by a lot. 

I'm guessing that young man was around 21 years old. 

In my experience, men at that young age - especially if they are a bit of a nerd and loner like that fellow is - fall really hard for most any lady - regardless of any age difference.

Their hormones are raging and there is little they want in life more more than to have a romance with some lady - most any lady.

My guess is that Elizabeth could get him to commit murder for her. He would have no defense to her honeypot charms.

Of course, that is just my opinion and I realize many people here will disagree with me.

Edited May 3, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Sarah 103]

23 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But she wasn't trying to get him to go with her then. She just wanted to be angry that he wanted her to be at home.

I meant Elizabeth playing on emotion and using the line "What if it was one of us that needed help" as a way to convince Philip to let her go complete the mission, not that she needed him. 

12 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

If they told her literally anything else (even taking into account all of the Pastor Tim stuff) Paige probably would have gotten upset but eventually moved past it.  She was a kid and even religious ones do move on.  She probably would have too if dad had been cheating on mom with a woman named Martha or mom had a drug problem.   I think it would have thrown her but not stunted her for life.  She probably would have thrown herself into her religion and maybe been just a religious adult.  

It would have made so much more sense if they told her a lie. Maybe something super secret in U.S intelligence that no one can know about, not even Stan, especially Stan. 

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

I definitely think she was flirting.

And I think most straight, male, college-age film geeks would be all over a woman who looks like Elizabeth (if she didn't come on super-strong in a suspicious way, like Liz did). They might not be interested in a relationship - but a roll in the hay is another matter.

Oops. I didn't see your post when I said pretty much the same thing down thread. I would guess that kid has no defense at all to honeypot Elizabeth. If she wanted to use him, he would be a goner.

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

The entire tuition squeeze is nonsensical. I wish the writers had taken the time to think this through better, once the decision (and not a bad one on its face, in my opinion) was made to put Phil under financial stress.

I want to tell you that I really enjoy your participation in this forum. IMO, you are like a "voice of reason". Some people here may not agree, but I think it's great to have another viewpoint and I find that it's far too easy to fall victim to just talking about how wonderful this show is without ever taking a close look at so many of the inconsistencies.

I also respect the way you don't usually have a bad word to say about the actors but you find fault with the writing instead. It is so easy to find fault with the actors and it's usually pretty cruel and entirely unnecessary and often just downright wrong.

Edited May 3, 2018 by MissBluxom

[teddysmom]

7 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Oops. I didn't see your post when I said pretty much the same thing down thread. I would guess that kid has no defense at all to honeypot Elizabeth. If she wanted to use him, he would be a goner.

He had the perfect opportunity and he turned her down. She invited him "for pizza" and he said he had to get up early, so that's what led me to believe he's not interested in her that way.  For his sake I hope he isn't. The death count is getting up there. 

Of course I could be, and probably am, wrong.  I just like to snark on her working all these different marks. To be honest, when she walked in the theater, I thought it was Renee, I only saw the blonde hair. I was like BINGO!! She is a Russian plant!!! 

[MisterBluxom]

It just ocurred to me that if and when P & E take the big fall, that man that Phillip had to let go might well become the "Judas" and be responsible for the Feds finally putting an end to P&E.

Seems like it always the meek and mild mannered "Uriah Heep" type characters that are the first to plunge the dagger into your back the second you turn around.

I should have sensed something like this would be coming by the way  he was always talking with Phillip and calling him "Meester Pheelup". Too funny!

3 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

He had the perfect opportunity and he turned her down. She invited him "for pizza" and he said he had to get up early, so that's what led me to believe he's not interested in her that way.  For his sake I hope he isn't. The death count is getting up there. 

Of course I could be, and probably am, wrong.  I just like to snark on her working all these different marks. To be honest, when she walked in the theater, I thought it was Renee, I only saw the blonde hair. I was like BINGO!! She is a Russian plant!!! 

He might always be gay. After all, no one really has foolproof "gaydar".

Edited May 3, 2018 by MissBluxom

[teddysmom]

6 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

He might always be gay. After all, no one really has foolproof "gaydar".

That's what I was thinking, too.  Not that E/Keri isn't attractive, in fact that was one of her better looks, just that sometimes you hit one that plays for the other team. Not that you can't shove a knife into his throat, no matter his sexual preference, once he's served his purpose. 

I think DC has a serial killer on its hands and her name is Elizabeth Jennings. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by teddysmom

[CaliCheeseSucks]

22 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

How does Mail Robot work, since you seem to be familiar with it. Does it go from floor to floor and assistants take the mail to deliver it to thier boss's desk? 

 

The one I had to deal with, it was not used in any sensitive/Executive areas. All mail was hand-delivered to those offices, and the robot got the drudgery of going floor-to-floor/door-to-door in the other 3/4 of the building. It would BEEP BEEP loudly, to summon people to its presence. From what I saw, it was so slow, people could take their sweet time responding, since it was easy enough to catch up with it elsewhere on its 'route' if it had already moved on from your door.

[Ellaria]

7 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

He had the perfect opportunity and he turned her down. She invited him "for pizza" and he said he had to get up early, so that's what led me to believe he's not interested in her that way.  For his sake I hope he isn't. The death count is getting up there. 

Of course I could be, and probably am, wrong.  I just like to snark on her working all these different marks. To be honest, when she walked in the theater, I thought it was Renee, I only saw the blonde hair. I was like BINGO!! She is a Russian plant!!! 

Even the biggest horn dog can get creeped out by an overly-aggressive woman, especially if it appears that she was following him. He can simply be a wise, cautious, bright young man that wasn't particularly interested in having a quickie with that woman. I can't imagine that he won't reappear again because we spent a lot of time with him for no pay off. Hopefully, he lives to see the next day.

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Finding out mom and dad were Soviet spies who were hell bent on recruiting her was verging on abuse (I thing Pastor Tim even wrote as much in his diary).

Though they weren't hell bent on recruiting her. Her mother eventually was, her father father still isn't. He's tried to throw her several life lines but she doesn't want them. I doubt Paige even realizes now that Elizabeth always wanted to recruit her. She seems to have a personality that craves recruitment. And also her mother's approval. Or she wants to compete with her or something. Honestly I think Paige's life would be dominated by her screwed up relationship with her mother even if she wasn't a Soviet spy. 

11 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Every time she has shown interest or initiative in anything she has been chastised harshly.  

This seems to be the way Paige sees it but it's part of what makes her so frustrating and unsuitable as a spy, that she can't follow the most basic logic about spying. The times Paige shows initiative are always about Paige doing something that makes Paige feel cool but risks exposure at most and is unnecessary at least. This started when she started asking to "spy" on Matthew and her parents said no, if you want to see him see him, but don't do it for us or spy on him. And Paige was for some reason incapable of understanding how it was necessary to report on the Tims but not on Matthew. It's really not that difficult. She still can't follow this basic logic, seemingly because she still sees the whole thing as defined by what she does instead of any larger picture that involves anyone else. 

None of this applies to Paige reading about Russia, which she could have started doing long before she was recruited. She's betraying her country for a place she doesn't know or understand. There's only so much one can blame other people for that. She's surrounded by ways to get information about this. She seems to have made a decision to only listen to her mother and Claudia.

15 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Henry on the other hand was so virtually ignored he was allowed to grow and mature on his own.  

I don't think you can ignore that Paige got tons of attention because she demanded it, though--and she started doing that long before her parents told her the truth. Every time Paige was doing a thing or feeling a feeling her parents had to be involved. That's just her. Henry, it's true, was therefore more independent. But I don't think it's fair to describe that as being ignored. It was standard parenting at the time. Often over the years viewers would make claims about his parents not knowing stuff or not being involved in stuff they are shown knowing and being involved with onscreen.

16 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

His problem solving should have made Philip proud but instead he seemed to be insulted.  

I think any parent would have acted the same way. Many would have been worse. Philip was supportive of everything Henry had done. He listened to his ideas and agreed to them. He even said he'd maybe talk to the guy at his school. But I think it's unreasonable to expect him to be *proud* about imagining this conversation Henry had with somebody's rich dad about him. Henry himself would have been just as unhappy if he was the subject of that sort of discussion. And yet Philip didn't reject the idea completely like some fathers absolutely would have.

9 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

12 hours ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Oh, those things are annoying af. I totally empathized with Stan that time he kicked the tar out of it.

 

Wasn't it Gaad who kicked the tar out of it?

7 minutes ago, Dev F said:

The purpose of those scenes was a little more specific this week, though. It was about him bristling at the idea that his son would have to go off on his own and work in a tannery because he was a failure, which contributed to him deciding that he couldn't let Liz go off on a dangerous mission on her own because he let her down so badly.

I honestly didn't see that. It's not like Henry's being sent off to the mines forever here. He's working a summer job with another kid from the same ritzy prep school whose father I believe owns the company. Pretty standard thing for rich American kids, actually. Would a guy who begged for food as a kid really be upset at his son working a more serious summer job to pay for his tuition at the fancy orphanage? 

I also didn't see him thinking he'd let Elizabeth down so badly. He refused to get Kimmy traumatized and probably killed and stood by that. When Henry made it clear she was in trouble he first hoped she's just come home. But she didn't so he went to help her. I didn't think he did it because he thought he'd let her down because that would imply he regretted burning Kimmy as a source and I don't think he did. I think he just wanted to help her because he does want to help her even if his help isn't good enough these days.

I mean, obviously I did see the whole "You're failing everyone!" stuff, but I thought a lot of it was failure of stuff that shouldn't matter that much. Like that's where Walden seemed significant. Philip is the person in the family with very simple needs. When he grew his business he regretted it and questioned why he bought into the idea he should. It just brought him stress and unhappiness to others. He had to start judging people as numbers in a ledger instead of people. The other people in his family are all focused on things beyond that make simple things unimportant. Paige and Elizabeth are saving the world. Henry's got ambitions for the future. (Not that Henry's ambitions are bad at all, but they are ambitions.) 

The one thing Philip does seem to feel good about is his work with Oleg, which for all the danger and importance of it still seems relatively unobtrusive and small compared to Elizabeth's mission. He can help Elizabeth where she needs him. He can maybe help people in the USSR be happy--not bring about worldwide utopia or guarantee peace. That seems like the only place he feels like he knows what to do.

So yes, Philip also wants to do something with his life that helps people. He doesn't just get satisfaction from having money and buying stuff. But he certainly seems to find joy in little, often inexpensive, things. But the places he's able to do that are getting fewer and fewer. The toy racecar place didn't take his mind off things.

14 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I meant Elizabeth playing on emotion and using the line "What if it was one of us that needed help" as a way to convince Philip to let her go complete the mission, not that she needed him. 

Oh! I see, I misunderstood. But I think the general point still stands. She wanted to tell him that he's selfish and horrible. He's worthless. She was through cajoling him or hiding her contempt at his enemy of the people ass. 

[Razzberry]

I'm watching mainly for Mathew Rhys at this point, but the writers aren't doing his character any favors.  Come on, Philip. Your wife is going to get you busted or killed, and your daughter is a silly brainwashed whore for no discernible reason other than pathetic mommy issues.   Stan's Thanksgiving speech was just embarrassing, and everyone is so stupid that I'm rooting for junior to turn their red asses in.

[hellmouse]

39 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I disagree completely about a lot of people’s interpretation of Paige.   She was younger then Henry is now when she found out that her parents are Soviet Spies.  If they told her literally anything else (even taking into account all of the Pastor Tim stuff) Paige probably would have gotten upset but eventually moved past it.  She was a kid and even religious ones do move on.  She probably would have too if dad had been cheating on mom with a woman named Martha or mom had a drug problem.   I think it would have thrown her but not stunted her for life.  She probably would have thrown herself into her religion and maybe been just a religious adult.  

Finding out mom and dad were Soviet spies who were hell bent on recruiting her was verging on abuse (I thing Pastor Tim even wrote as much in his diary).  It put her in conflict but gave her no emotional stability.  Paige isn’t stupid but she isn’t particularly emotionally stable either.  People have commented on her lack of interest in researching Russia but I don’t think she has any real insentive to.  The exact opposite.  Every time she has shown interest or initiative in anything she has been chastised harshly.  I think Paige is doomed not because of her personality or any character flaw but because her parents were so laser  focused on her.

Henry on the other hand was so virtually ignored he was allowed to grow and mature on his own.  He problem solves because he knows his parents have not really shown any interest in him.  He wants to graduate from his fancy school because he is right he is a senior and at this point getting kicked out would be a waste  of several years.   His problem solving should have made Philip proud but instead he seemed to be insulted.  I don’t think Henry was the least bit spoiled or entitled.  He was willing to do the work for what he wanted he was just hoping that for once his parents would acknowledge him.

Interesting ideas about Paige. I wonder if she would have been satisfied with any answer. It seemed like she didn't just want an explanation, she wanted to know everything. It wasn't enough to know that her parents were spies. if they said they were working, she had to know what they were working on. If they said what they were working on, she needed updates. She was an anxious, insecure child who thought that having more information would make her feel better.  Philip & Elizabeth have their own feelings about it (wanting to share their history, wanting to protect their daughter from the Centre, etc) and they take a gamble that sharing more information is the way to go. But it backfires. She wasn't ready. Rather than responding to a needy child by reinforcing boundaries, they removed boundaries. But all that did was to increase her anxiety and neediness.

I know the Centre forced their hand. They didn't have the option of telling her nothing. But they really didn't seem to have a plan for what they did next. And IMO they erred in giving in to her demands. She would have benefited from them saying "we cannot tell you specifics of our work and that is that" instead of letting her badger them into sharing details. They abdicated their parental role as the-ones-who-set-the-limits, and for an anxious child, that is just not helpful.  

Your point about Henry made me think about houseplants. The easiest way to kill a plant (most plants) is over-watering. So people get nervous about how a plant doesn't look right and end up doing too much to "fix it". Most plants can handle benign neglect but over-watering will almost always kill. And here, Henry is thriving and Paige is stunted. 

[Bannon]

30 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I want to tell you that I really enjoy your participation in this forum. IMO, you are like a "voice of reason". Some people here may not agree, but I think it's great to have another viewpoint and I find that it's far too easy to fall victim to just talking about how wonderful this show is without ever taking a close look at so many of the inconsistencies.

I also respect the way you don't usually have a bad word to say about the actors but you find fault with the writing instead. It is so easy to find fault with the actors and it's usually pretty cruel and entirely unnecessary and often just downright wrong.

Thanks for the kind words. I have no issue with anyone who disagrees with my opinions. I just try to give my honest assessment.

12 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

I'm watching mainly for Mathew Rhys at this point, but the writers aren't doing his character any favors.  Come on, Philip. Your wife is going to get you busted or killed, and your daughter is a silly brainwashed whore for no discernible reason other than pathetic mommy issues.   Stan's Thanksgiving speech was just embarrassing, and everyone is so stupid that I'm rooting for junior to turn their red asses in.

I don't think much of how the Paige character has been written, but "whore" seems a bit much.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Wasn't it Gaad who kicked the tar out of it?

 

Yes, I misspoke.

4 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I don't think this is going anywhere. I think that we are being trolled by the show runners.

There are about 4 hours left of this show. If time is spent with Renee making secret phone calls to her colleagues with the KGB, Mossad, Stasi, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, I will throw pillows at the TV.  Instead, Renee with her super powers of observation will notice that the long-forgotten sketches look like their neighbors.

Either way, it is a fail, IMO.

Lots and lots of wasted time with red herrings and plots to nowhere over the last two seasons, no question.

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I am surprised that the "film guy" didn't some how conclude that he was being followed.  He should have thought it was pretty strange to run into her on the subway after seeing her not that long ago at the movie theater.  It seems like the writers make every "American" stoopid (stupid)  beyond belief.

It reminds me of the fan letter in the The Simpsons' '138th Episode Spectacular': "I think Homer gets stupider every year." Except here Homer is "everyone other than Philip and Elizabeth Jennings."

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wonder if Stan and Adderhalt discussed anything of significance in the elevator after the robot entered.  They stood there and then the scene changed. When they return they are in the room, so, ............hmm....

It was literally an excuse to fan service a mail robot appearance. More wasted time from the writers, who seem to have completely lost sight of how tight these final ten episodes needed to be; they should have exhausted all the time-wasting instincts out of their system in season five. It's like they just can help but stick something in there that serves no purpose. I felt the same with the small talk standing at the FBI's post-Thanksgiving pot luck. 

[misstwpherecool]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So what happens if the intern calls the number E gave him on that card, but, she can't get back with him, because she's on a mission in Chicago?  I assume the answering service will answer that number as the firm she said she worked for and tell him they will give her the message. I suppose the Chicago mission was more urgent. 

I'm not sure I buy the method Aderholt said they would track down car sales by title.  Was this for the commonwealth of VA only? 

What was that story that Henry was telling when he and his dad were playing race cars? 

 I was wondering that too. They should start with cars of the make and model they know were used in missions and were never located or know to be stolen. And they seemed of highlight the fact they used cash. That should've been a known variable/method decades ago. I forget are look for garage  or storage rentals?

Was P looking through their spy supplies to determine what ID E would be using to tell Oleg?

[jjj]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So what happens if the intern calls the number E gave him on that card, but, she can't get back with him, because she's on a mission in Chicago?  I assume the answering service will answer that number as the firm she said she worked for and tell him they will give her the message. I suppose the Chicago mission was more urgent. 

I'm not sure I buy the method Aderholt said they would track down car sales by title.  Was this for the commonwealth of VA only? 

Well, Elizabeth does not really have a phone in any case! (Home phone is not for operative work.)  So, whatever number is on the card will go to the basement phone central.  That is the way all the phone numbers have worked over the years. 

Basically, Aderholt/FBI is checking every cash-only sale of cars in the region, going back ten years.  And I'm not sure even that would catch the Jennings!  FBI would have to find the actual car and watch it, and they can't do that for a pile of cars.  The garage is a much more fruitful line of investigation, because there are so many fewer of them, and the garages are not mobile!

I was fascinated by Philip going through Elizabeth's nursing costume boxes, and looking at the sketch book.  What did he see that spurred him to write to Oleg?  And I think I saw more than enough fresh cash with the passports to pay for Henry's school next year. (joking, I know the cash is for escape.  But wow, it was so new and shiny!)   

[misstwpherecool]

Who sent the emergency signal out of Chicago? The agent who saw that the FBI discovered information about their local operations.

[MisterBluxom]

11 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Yes, I misspoke.

Lots and lots of wasted time with red herrings and plots to nowhere over the last two seasons, no question.

It reminds me of the fan letter in the The Simpsons' '138th Episode Spectacular': "I think Homer gets stupider every year." Except here Homer is "everyone other than Philip and Elizabeth Jennings."

It was literally an excuse to fan service a mail robot appearance. More wasted time from the writers, who seem to have completely lost sight of how tight these final ten episodes needed to be; they should have exhausted all the time-wasting instincts out of their system in season five. It's like they just can help but stick something in there that serves no purpose. I felt the same with the small talk standing at the FBI's post-Thanksgiving pot luck. 

I don't know why, but I fully expected Stan to kick that stupid robot into a million pieces. Either that or  pull out his weapon and blast it full of holes.

What was the point of showing us that ridiculous robot one more time? I just don't get that.

[shura]

1 hour ago, Mumbles said:

When Claudia was walking in the park with the head scarf and the thick wool coat and the dour expression I thought how stereotypically "Soviet" she looked.

Right? I was thinking the same thing - what an authentic babushka getup, way to blend in! Got any stew?

36 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

The one I had to deal with, it was not used in any sensitive/Executive areas. All mail was hand-delivered to those offices, and the robot got the drudgery of going floor-to-floor/door-to-door in the other 3/4 of the building. It would BEEP BEEP loudly, to summon people to its presence. From what I saw, it was so slow, people could take their sweet time responding, since it was easy enough to catch up with it elsewhere on its 'route' if it had already moved on from your door.

How did it get the elevator to hold the doors and wait for it? I swear, the doors were already closing when the Mail Robot decided it needed to get in. Is it one of those Internet of Things thing that Google is still working on thirty years later?

[CaliCheeseSucks]

9 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I don't know why, but I fully expected Stan to kick that stupid robot into a million pieces. Either that or  pull out his weapon and blast it full of holes.

What was the point of showing us that ridiculous robot one more time? I just don't get that.

Fan service, plain and simple. It's why I stopped listening to the Slate podcast with the showrunners a few seasons back - their playing to what jazzed up the fans was just too obvious and overbearing. 

6 minutes ago, shura said:

Right? I was thinking the same thing - what an authentic babushka getup, way to blend in! Got any stew?

How did it get the elevator to hold the doors and wait for it? I swear, the doors were already closing when the Mail Robot decided it needed to get in. Is it one of those Internet of Things thing that Google is still working on thirty years later?

I'd have to watch the scene again, but if it was close enough to trigger the motion sensors on the doors, that is all it would have taken for the 'doors closing' to turn into 'doors opening.' The technology for those door sensors has been fairly sensitive for a long time (not to say that in real life every building or elevator was up to the same standards).

I can't say I wouldn't have minded seeing Mail Robot get the Rosalind Shays treatment in general, though.

[Anela]

I liked seeing Henry's surprise that his mother showed any interest in him at all, and I liked that she actually showed that she loves him, and specifically wanted to talk to him. Ack, I have a cat who just hung his upper body over my right hand as I'm trying to type. Super snuggly, and sweet, but the worst timing. 

I still think it's dumb that they had no security on the defectors in their home, last week, but at least this week they mentioned the woman who disappeared into thin air, in the first season (Elizabeth). At least I think that's what they referred to. 

"You're an adult now. I don't have to shield you." What about Paige? She's still shielding her. 

I hope Laurie Holden isn't just there to look pretty. Her looks at Elizabeth weren't subtle, in a previous episode. Although I'd also hate to see Stan find out that not only was his best friend a Russian spy, but his wife was, too. I know some have speculated that she's CIA, or FBI, keeping an eye on him. I suppose she could have been keeping an eye on the Jennings, and checked out Stan because they're friends, ending up actually liking him. 

[ddben]

4 hours ago, teddysmom said:

I think the actress who played Sofia was on the next to last episode of Homeland. I thought I recognized her. She played a Russian translator for  the US embassy.  And Oleg was a main character as well.  Homeland is over so they can't cast anymore The Americans supporting actors. 

Homeland is out for this season, but has a final season next year.  I do not think we've seen the last of Yegevny (Costa Ronin) in that role as he is responsible for Carrie's (temporary?) insanity!

[Lily H]

I just cringed when Elizabeth asked movie nerd out for pizza and he blew her off. She's a beautiful woman, but she's still a middle-aged woman, and I would think most college-age guys who have a life and friends would just be creeped out at having a desperate-sounding older woman come on to them. When she corralled him in the subway, I was expecting him to run for the hills at the first opportunity. Now, if movie nerd had been a lonely guy in his 40s or 50s, then yes, I'm sure her charms would have worked wonders.

And I'm still not clear on exactly what Elizabeth and Marilyn are intending to do in Chicago (that apparently has such a limited chance of success). Rescue him? Killing him seems more likely, even though the damage has already been done, but wouldn't they be able to come up with a good plan to pull that off?

[jjj]

I am having trouble understanding the Chicago mission.  The illegal ("accountant") knows he is under surveillance, and needs to be extricated.  Isn't that what the stash of cash and passports is for?  And the cyanide pill (which we know he has, because Claudia told Elizabeth that Chicago guy is also working on the "Mexico" job).  If he needs help evaporating, why are Elizabeth & Co. spending so much time studying his route to work?  And why is this such a difficult extraction, if the person wants to be extracted?  And back to:  they have various escape routes in place, for measured departure (time to get to an Eastern Bloc country, as Philip and Elizabeth almost did) or immediate departure, as we have seen in the past (do not go home, just leave).   Or take the pill -- that was the deal. 

[LMM]

I think the officer in Chicago realizes he has a larger surveillance team on him and needs help getting out unnoticed. Kind of like when Philip asked for the car accident to run interference for Elizabeth so she could lose the FBI a few seasons ago, but bigger! 

I think it’s so difficult because of the size of the team on him. The FBI has more resources on him. 

I’m sure he wants to avoid the cyanide route, if at all possible. I imagine that’s more for if nuclear weapons are deployed or if you definitely are caught.

[Anela]

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Elizabeth is such an evil woman.  I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she intentionally sounded all depressed to Henry knowing that Henry would go talk to Philip about it.   In an effort to get Philip motivated to help her out.  I don't recall Elizabeth being this whiny, ever.

I didn't think of that. I'll be disappointed if that was her reason for calling him.

12 minutes ago, Lily H said:

I just cringed when Elizabeth asked movie nerd out for pizza and he blew her off. She's a beautiful woman, but she's still a middle-aged woman, and I would think most college-age guys who have a life and friends would just be creeped out at having a desperate-sounding older woman come on to them. When she corralled him in the subway, I was expecting him to run for the hills at the first opportunity. Now, if movie nerd had been a lonely guy in his 40s or 50s, then yes, I'm sure her charms would have worked wonders.

And I'm still not clear on exactly what Elizabeth and Marilyn are intending to do in Chicago (that apparently has such a limited chance of success). Rescue him? Killing him seems more likely, even though the damage has already been done, but wouldn't they be able to come up with a good plan to pull that off?

I cringed, too, but it also annoys me (that immediate reaction). There are men her age that hook up with girls his age, all the time. Look at Stan and Nina (although she was working him, in a way). Was that the same guy that Paige slept with? I can't remember. I just recall her looking around a guy's room, as he slept next to her. 

[misstwpherecool]

7 minutes ago, jjj said:

I am having trouble understanding the Chicago mission.  The illegal ("accountant") knows he is under surveillance, and needs to be extricated.  Isn't that what the stash of cash and passports is for?  And the cyanide pill (which we know he has, because Claudia told Elizabeth that Chicago guy is also working on the "Mexico" job).  If he needs help evaporating, why are Elizabeth & Co. spending so much time studying his route to work?  And why is this such a difficult extraction, if the person wants to be extracted?  And back to:  they have various escape routes in place, for measured departure (time to get to an Eastern Bloc country, as Philip and Elizabeth almost did) or immediate departure, as we have seen in the past (do not go home, just leave).   Or take the pill -- that was the deal. 

Is the FBI trying to convict or find/identify others in the Chicago KGB division? I thought all spies had a go bag. Or electric breaker panels that open like a cabinet with spy stuff. Shouldn't they have prearranged and planned for escape period.  The Mexico Job complicates thing for the conspirators so I guess Claudia is part of it or trusted with some information.

[shura]

5 minutes ago, LMM said:

I think the officer in Chicago realizes he has a larger surveillance team on him and needs help getting out unnoticed. Kind of like when Philip asked for the car accident to run interference for Elizabeth so she could lose the FBI a few seasons ago, but bigger! 

I think it’s so difficult because of the size of the team on him. The FBI has more resources on him. 

I’m sure he wants to avoid the cyanide route, if at all possible. I imagine that’s more for if nuclear weapons are deployed or if you definitely are caught.

And he is not working on the Mexico job, Claudia is mistaken about that. He is working to get the sensor needed for the Dead Hand development, while Elizabeth's Mexico job is about thwarting Gorbachev and preventing a deal that would scrap Dead Hand in exchange for some US concessions. So the guy may not even have the cyanide pill.

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Anela said:

Was that the same guy that Paige slept with? I can't remember. I just recall her looking around a guy's room, as he slept next to her. 

No, her guy was Brian. And more her type, it seemed. Preppy and hunkier.

2 minutes ago, shura said:

And he is not working on the Mexico job, Claudia is mistaken about that. He is working to get the sensor needed for the Dead Hand development, while Elizabeth's Mexico job is about thwarting Gorbachev and preventing a deal that would scrap Dead Hand in exchange for some US concessions. So the guy may not even have the cyanide pill.

It may be that Claudia was told that he was related to the Mexico City job rather than working it--though I guess he could be working it too. The sensor is part of the Mexico City job. They first told Elizabeth to find out about Gorbachev's aid, but then they also told her to try to get this sensor. That's now they found this guy in Chicago. Elizabeth left them clear clues that she was after it so they looked at other people connected to it.

[Erin9]

2 hours ago, Mumbles said:

I love the show and all, but part of me thinks if it ends up that the Jennings' downfall is the result of the FBI catching and cracking an unrelated Soviet agent in another city whom we've never heard of before, it would be a cheap ending. I am keeping my mind open that there's more going on and the writers have a plan (for example they mentioned the Russian priest).

I thought the same thing when I was watching. It doesn’t seem earned, despite some of it being the result of Elizabeth’s mistakes. 

But there’s still 4 episodes. It may not be about this at all...or only some part of it. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Erin9

[DoubleUTeeEff]

29 minutes ago, jjj said:

I am having trouble understanding the Chicago mission. 

I'm not sure. Are they trying to get the sensor using his intel--which would be a problem because he's under surveillance?

I cannot believe that Philip not only fired Stavos but did it BEFORE the holidays! He couldn't wait until after the new year? I guess this illustrates how Philip is "all in" with regards to capitalism--first firing Stavos before the holidays and then his reasoning for choosing the people he fired was that they were not "pulling their weight." He based his decision solely on sales record. Stavos got no leeway for loyalty or experience. I also liked the touch where Philip told Stavos he was letting him know first since he'd been there the longest. Not letting him know that people were getting fired--but that he was getting fired! I liked how Stavos just got up and walked out, shutting the door behind him.

Speculation on Renee continues. Now I'm thinking that Renee is how Philip and Elizabeth get to Stan. Stan will find out the truth and Renee will be kidnapped in order to blackmail Stan into keeping the FBI in the dark while Philip and Elizabeth make their escape. That sounds cliche but if they did it right, it might not be horrible. I guess a pretty wife makes more of an impact than a grown son if you are going for the kidnapping angle. Maybe she'll fight back, Stan met her at the gym after all.

[misstwpherecool]

5 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I'm not sure. Are they trying to get the sensor using his intel--which would be a problem because he's under surveillance?

I cannot believe that Philip not only fired Stavos but did it BEFORE the holidays! He couldn't wait until after the new year? I guess this illustrates how Philip is "all in" with regards to capitalism--first firing Stavos before the holidays and then his reasoning for choosing the people he fired was that they were not "pulling their weight." He based his decision solely on sales record. Stavos got no leeway for loyalty or experience. I also liked the touch where Philip told Stavos he was letting him know first since he'd been there the longest. Not letting him know that people were getting fired--but that he was getting fired! I liked how Stavos just got up and walked out, shutting the door behind him.

Speculation on Renee continues. Now I'm thinking that Renee is how Philip and Elizabeth get to Stan. Stan will find out the truth and Renee will be kidnapped in order to blackmail Stan into keeping the FBI in the dark while Philip and Elizabeth make their escape. That sounds cliche but if they did it right, it might not be horrible. I guess a pretty wife makes more of an impact than a grown son if you are going for the kidnapping angle. Maybe she'll fight back, Stan met her at the gym after all.

Have to wonder if Stavos is good for a workplace shooting. Didn't going 'postal' have it's roots in the 80s. Or Stavos could come back for something and stumble upon something he shouldn't.

Would they could do after the dust has settled at the very end of the show and the fate of most characters has played out they could show Renee meeting Claudia or another handler even if Stan is out of the picture.

[jjj]

One other quibble about the tuition subplot -- there was no need to tell Henry in October that he would not be able to return to private school eleven months later.  First, finances could change between October 87-to-September 88, and second, Henry would not need to enroll in public school until the last minute.  It's like family, when you show up, they have to take you in. 

And hey, I just realized they completely blew past the big stock drop in October 1987.  It does not sound like a lot of drop these days, but it was a huge deal in 1987.  I was not working in accounting or finance, but everyone around me was completely shocked at the one-day drop.  I thought, at a minimum, it would have been one of the date-markers they used to tell us where we were, like they used the playoffs and World Series to let us know where the timeline was.  If capitalist Philip had any stocks, that would be another hit on the finances.  (It all turned out fine, everyone, but not that month!)