S05.E16: Inside Voices

[Lobsel Vith]

Just now, tessaray said:

Yeah, I realized my error in a later post. 

I understand why you felt something was off, though, and you're not alone in feeling that way.

I suspect, if there weren't budget issues, that the pods wouldn't be so stretched out. It is odd that so little time is given to May and Daisy, though; you'd think they couldn't explored Daisy's trauma more (after what Fitz did to her), or delved more into May dealing with losing time to a robotic doppleganger and where things stand now with Coulson (especially since it would've made her line about Coulson and her taking a "step back" make more sense if this is a relationship that they intend to explore) rather than how they've been approaching things. It reminds me of Luke Mitchell talking about the writers having more characters than they knew how to properly service, although he phrased it much more diplomatically.

29 minutes ago, mary2013 said:

Anyone else find it strange that Deke said the exact same thing, word for word, to Fitz and Simmons about Daisy being a hard ass? As if he's trying to undermine Daisy?

 

And he mentioned again about playing the long game. I think he's up to something. I just don't know if he's trying to change the future, or keep it as is or he might not exist. 

Some of Deke's lines (particularly about Daisy, including the one in reference to what Fitz did) make him sound malevolent. If he turns out to be a villain (or an antagonist), it would certainly make more use of him than simply having him as an Easter Egg to FitzSimmons, particularly when he serves no real purpose outside of that (particularly since he's just there taking up time and space).

[AKA...CJ86]

Well, Quinn and Raina were the highlights of the episode for me.

While I liked the Coulson, Creel, and Talbot escape plot, I'm getting bored with Hale and Ruby.  I'm in the crowd where they aren't the villains... or at least hoping they aren't.  It's too easy, too clean.  And Deke maybe up to something.  Check.  He could be a possible minor villain, and major annoyance.  Fitz.  Maybe?  What about Daisy?  I'm not saying she goes bad, but maybe the team will have to make that ultimate sacrifice to make sure she doesn't Quake the world.  Heck, even Coulson. Isn't he infected from... was it the odium(?)... and maybe it's time to put an old horse down?  What will likely happen is Ruby and Hale turning on each other... which I don't want, that seems the obvious, clean route to me.

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

If Fitz, Simmons, and Yo-Yo don't believe the future timeline can be changed why are they even bothering? From their perspective no matter what they do or not do the Earth just goes boom anyway.

 

That is really starting to bug me and it's getting  to the point that it is super tiresome everytime someone says invincible. Your whole mission since you got back to the present has literally been to change the future you dumb idiots.

I did like Coulson's escape storyline though, although Hale changing out of her USAF uniform and into somethin from The Baroness's closet made me laugh.

[MissLucas]

11 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That is really starting to bug me and it's getting  to the point that it is super tiresome everytime someone says invincible. Your whole mission since you got back to the present has literally been to change the future you dumb idiots.

 

This! Their actions are actually based on the assumption of an open loop - yet they justify that everything will work out on evidence based on a closed loop. (Yeah, it's possible that I got both theories wrong - now excuse me while I go looking for some of Janeway's headache meds.)

[paigow]

How is Deke a villain? He did not plan his time travel, so how could he have an evil plot with no resources?

[romantic idiot]

I guess they are assuming the loop isn't broken till they break it. 

21 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

I have another theory actually, which is that Hale and Ruby are not the true villains of the season. Or rather, they're not the final villains of the season. It's possible that Hale releases Graviton, and the last several episodes deal with the team's attempts to stop him from destroying the world.

I think the true (unwitting) villains of this season will be Coulson and Quake. In fact they already are - Coulson brought Quake back, now Quake will not let Coulson die. 

[LilJen]

23 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

If Fitz, Simmons, and Yo-Yo don't believe the future timeline can be changed why are they even bothering? From their perspective no matter what they do or not do the Earth just goes boom anyway.

What hold does Ruby have over Strucker? Must be one of those magical vajayjays.

Ha. You sure it isn't those beautifully collagen-enhanced Barbie lips?

[Affogato]

21 hours ago, Froippi said:

No not strange nothing strange to me

I think in the society Deke came from everyone was a hustler. He is always going to be up to something. 

[Froippi]

26 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I think in the society Deke came from everyone was a hustler. He is always going to be up to something. 

Still doesn’t give me a reason to think he is up to something and I really. Dislike that way of thinking just because of where he came from,

[Affogato]

21 minutes ago, Froippi said:

Still doesn’t give me a reason to think he is up to something and I really. Dislike that way of thinking just because of where he came from,

No, I didn't mean that someone from a bad neighborhood is always going to be bad, for one thing that is demonstrably not true, for another thing a lot depends on other influences, like having a strong (for one example) parental influence. However, my impression is that the humans in the future were living like mice in the walls. Sure, good people and bad people, but all of them shared some expectations about what you need to do that would be hard to shake. 

I've had to supervise people from other countries and it is amazing what misunderstandings can happen because we are operating under a somewhat different 'programming'. So yes, even if he was a really likeable person from a dystopian future there are going to be issues.

Just because you are 'up to something' doesn't mean you are necessarily bad, either. 

[Froippi]

4 minutes ago, Affogato said:

No, I didn't mean that someone from a bad neighborhood is always going to be bad, for one thing that is demonstrably not true, for another thing a lot depends on other influences, like having a strong (for one example) parental influence. However, my impression is that the humans in the future were living like mice in the walls. Sure, good people and bad people, but all of them shared some expectations about what you need to do that would be hard to shake. 

I've had to supervise people from other countries and it is amazing what misunderstandings can happen because we are operating under a somewhat different 'programming'. So yes, even if he was a really likeable person from a dystopian future there are going to be issues.

Just because you are 'up to something' doesn't mean you are necessarily bad, either. 

Fair enough misunderstood that 

[TVSpectator]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

I think in the society Deke came from everyone was a hustler. He is always going to be up to something. 

Except for people like Tess, Old Woman Robin, Flint and pretty much everyone else (except a few other people)... 

10 hours ago, MissLucas said:

This! Their actions are actually based on the assumption of an open loop - yet they justify that everything will work out on evidence based on a closed loop. (Yeah, it's possible that I got both theories wrong - now excuse me while I go looking for some of Janeway's headache meds.)

Yep, the logic doesn't fit but hey, I am sure the ending will be "happy". Also, if they realized that their daughter will be murdered won't they want to do something about it? Also, what happened to Fitz and Simmons as well? Did they die when their daughter was young? What happens if Simmons has a son instead of a daughter? Unless Simmons and Fitz are now determined to make sure the future timeline will happen so they can have a daughter that they probably won't spend a lot of time with, I just can't see them going around thinking that everything has been predetermined. Also, Yo-Yo even hinted that the future maybe not as determined as they once thought.

5 hours ago, paigow said:

How is Deke a villain? He did not plan his time travel, so how could he have an evil plot with no resources?

 

23 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Some of Deke's lines (particularly about Daisy, including the one in reference to what Fitz did) make him sound malevolent. If he turns out to be a villain (or an antagonist), it would certainly make more use of him than simply having him as an Easter Egg to FitzSimmons, particularly when he serves no real purpose outside of that (particularly since he's just there taking up time and space).

1

I would say that Deke can be a villain out of opportunity. I mean if he thinks that there is nothing wrong with selling someone into slavery then I am sure that the longer he stays in the present the more time he will get in trouble just base on what he thinks it's okay to do, IMO. Maybe he will try to sell Yo-Yo or someone else to human traffickers and get the shit beaten out of by Daredevil and/or Luke Cage in an NYC port? Or better yet what if he abandons his grandmother and grandfather because you know he is supposed to be a scum bag, to begin with? Although, again, storywise what is his purpose? Is he a villain (remember slavers in fiction is one of those occupations where you have to make the person into at least an antagonist- they crossed moral lines that are hard to come back and having him being genetically related to one of the show's "power" ships isn't just going to let him go easy.) I just can't believe that they decided to make the only slaver (in the entire show) turn out to be Fitz and Simmons', grandson. Maybe Deke will be the one that will trigger the events that would set of the "Destroyer of Worlds" or something and be responsible for killing billions of humans?

Quote

 

Fun episode. Jemma and Elena are cold-blooded. "I don't think I'm gonna die, so I'm gonna drink three glasses of liquid, and I won't down the poison!!" It's a situation where Mack might not be able to forgive them for the deception. Also, I think that stunt took years off Fitz's life. If he's "guaranteed" to survive, you think he might try and give himself a vasectomy without anesthesia for the purpose for negate Deke's existence?

 

2

If Fitz really wants to have no kids (to avoid bringing in Deke into the world) all he can do is have a prostate removal (including the removing the base) and the sperm sacs since vasectomies can naturally reverse themselves in some cases.  Or he can just wear condoms and use some spermicide for the rest of Simmons' childbearing years. Or Simmons can have her tubes tied. The list can go on.

Edited April 8, 2018 by TVSpectator

[CaptainTightpants]

Deke is definitely up to something. It isn't currently clear if he has actual "evil" plans. As stated upthread I think he is more an insect of opportunity. But he is clearly playing mindgames with the team. It could be that he is simply trying to insert himself into the chain of command so that he has a place to belong. But those comments he keeps making are in no way innocent. 

I am hating the rift in the team, but sadly I'm not buying it. It is playing out like badly written fanfic right now. The 'invincible" half of the team is acting wildly out of character. So the current conflict feels completely plot driven and I'm rolling my eyes a lot. 

Simmons characterizing Fitz's actions as "thinking differently" was jaw dropping. And honestly not something I believe that she would actually say. Her character has been consistently written as a blend of empathetic and rational. Unless she still has some sort of alien bug in her brain this current direction makes no sense as far as her established character goes. 

Yoyo is the character most likely to be forthright and her worldview is based on honesty and faith. She and Mack are a very good match as far as values go. So the fact that she lied to, tricked and locked up Mack was also ridiculous as far as her established character goes. The only thing I can think of is maybe she is justifiably acting out some trauma from recent events and her decision making is really impaired. She deserves to be dumped for this bit of asshatery in any case. I hope Mack doesn't just brush it off. 

Hale is an absolute idiot. So far she is a real disappointment as far as villains go. At least Aida was smart. 

I thought that Daisy was perfectly in line as far as leadership goes. I don't think anything she said or did was questionable. Which makes the Simmons and Yoyo defection even less believable. Especially since Fitz's guess about Hale's goals is in no way "a concrete lead".

The Coulson part of the episode was more engaging. In fact a Coulson/Talbot show is something I would watch the hell out of! Crazy Talbot is my favorite flavour of Talbot. Maybe with Carl along as the world's most enormous minion. 

[TVSpectator]

1 hour ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Deke is definitely up to something. It isn't currently clear if he has actual "evil" plans. As stated upthread I think he is more an insect of opportunity. But he is clearly playing mindgames with the team. It could be that he is simply trying to insert himself into the chain of command so that he has a place to belong. But those comments he keeps making are in no way innocent. 

2

Well, if he is up to something then what is he up to something? Is he Hydra?

Quote

Simmons characterizing Fitz's actions as "thinking differently" was jaw dropping. And honestly not something I believe that she would actually say. Her character has been consistently written as a blend of empathetic and rational. Unless she still has some sort of alien bug in her brain this current direction makes no sense as far as her established character goes. 

In my opinion, these characters have always been badly written out of character for seasons. With Simmons, she did start out as empathetic and rational but it turned into cold heartlessness and then suddenly she loves Fitz. Personally, I like to think that a Skrull has replaced her (right before she left Maveth) and we have been seeing a Skrull pretending to be Simmons all this time. Of course, Fitz knows but since he likes keeping secrets from the team (see AIDA and Daisy's tests' results) then he is hiding the fact that Simmons is a Skrull. 

 

Quote

Yoyo is the character most likely to be forthright and her worldview is based on honesty and faith. She and Mack are a very good match as far as values go. So the fact that she lied to, tricked and locked up Mack was also ridiculous as far as her established character goes. The only thing I can think of is maybe she is justifiably acting out some trauma from recent events and her decision making is really impaired. She deserves to be dumped for this bit of asshatery in any case. I hope Mack doesn't just brush it off. 

Sadly, I have been saying this, the show loves to handwave everything away. It's just not going to happen. They probably will get a scene or two with a mad Mack and then quickly they are back together again. 

 

Quote

Hale is an absolute idiot. So far she is a real disappointment as far as villains go. At least Aida was smart. 

AIDA was a generic villain. Especially once she became a "real" human (with Inhuman powers) and went crazy because Fitz dumped her for Simmons. Really predictable and also really generic (AIDA was just another woman scorned). 

Edited April 9, 2018 by TVSpectator

[CaptainTightpants]

10 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Well, if he is up to something then what is he up to something? Is he Hydra?

I don't think it is anything like that, not Hydra or an evil organization.

I suspect he is trying to undermine Daisy while scratching out a place for himself in SHIELD. He says himself that he plays the long game. And assuming that the team manages to stop the world from cracking they will move on the next case. And then where will he be, he is only relevant to this situation. The only one who likes him is Simmons, and he doesn't belong anywhere else or know anybody. So I think he is looking to establish a place for himself before he gets kicked to the curb. (Not that SHIELD can even do that since he is a potential leak and has no identity in this timeline). 

In any case I think his current scheming is solely for his own benefit. Which is understandable for a shady conman. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by CaptainTightpants

[VCRTracking]

2 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

I don't think it is anything like that, not Hydra or an evil organization.

I suspect he is trying to undermine Daisy while scratching out a place for himself in SHIELD. He says himself that he plays the long game. And assuming that the team manages to stop the world from cracking they will move on the next case. And then where will he be, he is only relevant to this situation. The only one who likes him is Simmons, and he doesn't belong anywhere else or know anybody. So I think he is looking to establish a place for himself before he gets kicked to the curb. (Not that SHIELD can even do that since he is a potential leak and has no identity in this timeline). 

In any case I think his current scheming is solely for his own benefit. Which is understandable for a shady conman. 

Deke's basically Charlie the dog from Looney Tunes.

I didn't know until the AfterBuzz recap that the scene with Raina and Quinn was a deleted season 1 scene! I really thought they got Ruth Negga back and I had my hopes up they could get Adrianne Palecki too.

[jhlipton]

3 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

AIDA was a generic villain. Especially once she became a "real" human (with Inhuman powers) and went crazy because Fitz dumped her for Simmons. Really predictable and also really generic (AIDA was just another woman scorned). 

She came up with and trapped nearly all of SHIELD in the Framework.  I'd hardly call that "generic".

[kitlee625]

10 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

I don't think it is anything like that, not Hydra or an evil organization.

I suspect he is trying to undermine Daisy while scratching out a place for himself in SHIELD. He says himself that he plays the long game. And assuming that the team manages to stop the world from cracking they will move on the next case. And then where will he be, he is only relevant to this situation. The only one who likes him is Simmons, and he doesn't belong anywhere else or know anybody. So I think he is looking to establish a place for himself before he gets kicked to the curb. (Not that SHIELD can even do that since he is a potential leak and has no identity in this timeline). 

In any case I think his current scheming is solely for his own benefit. Which is understandable for a shady conman. 

 

I hope that Deke is planning something because right now I find his character both boring and pointless. He has very little to do aside being a FitzSimmons Easter Egg. I do like the idea that Deke may want to prevent the team from changing the future, solely because if they do that, then he may/will cease to exist. That would give him motivation to sow dissent within the team and distrust between FitzSimmons and Daisy. But I also think it's plausible that the writers have no idea what to do with him now like so many other characters (*cough* Trip *cough*).

Edited April 9, 2018 by kitlee625

[Jack Kerouac]

On 4/6/2018 at 10:07 PM, kitlee625 said:

I liked the episode, but it's really impressive just how bad Daisy is as a leader. Everyone dislikes her and/or is actively plotting against her. What a great future Director SHIELD. </sarcasm>

 

I like the May/Robin scenes and found them genuinely sweet. I also laughed at the humor of Talboit / Coulson / Creel.

 

The music tried to build drama with the Simmons-cheating-death scene, but I knew she was going to be fine. I was not expecting her to trick Mack though. (Nice job writers making everyone on this show crazy.)

 

On 4/7/2018 at 1:51 PM, romantic idiot said:

Daisy's a terrible leader, she doesn't inspire any faith in her plans whatsoever and she doesn't listen to her subordinates. Plus she puts a child's life at risk because of her tunnel vision. 

Phil - Talbot and Creel should have let him die. They reinforced the timeline again. I wonder if that was a tipping point 

Very true. I've always like Daisy on a personal level, but her character is useless as a leader, no matter what Coulson says. Mack would be a much better leader.

[paigow]

Mack should be disqualified from any permanent leadership position if he is dating / married to a subordinate...although he now has ample justification to dump YoYo...

[Froippi]

You know I really do think Fitz and Simmons our better off leaving Shield by the end of the season and in Season 6 show them away from shield living their own life since no one trust them if we get a season 6 that is 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Froippi

[TVSpectator]

26 minutes ago, paigow said:

Mack should be disqualified from any permanent leadership position if he is dating / married to a subordinate...although he now has ample justification to dump YoYo...

Simmons was in Second Command under Mace and still dating Fitz. On this show, it seems that dating a person of higher rank/clearance level is a non-issue. 

13 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

I hope that Deke is planning something because right now I find his character both boring and pointless. He has very little to do aside being a FitzSimmons Easter Egg. I do like the idea that Deke may want to prevent the team from changing the future, solely because if they do that, then he may/will cease to exist. That would give him motivation to sow dissent within the team and distrust between FitzSimmons and Daisy. But I also think it's plausible that the writers have no idea what to do with him now like so many other characters (*cough* Trip *cough*).

 

Yeah, Deke is currently useless to the show and to the plot. The shock of him being Fitz and Simmons grandson is over (it was like over in 5X12) and now he is so pointless. Maybe if he comes to realize that he may not be born, if the timeline changes, and actually tries to prevent SHIELD from actually stopping said even, then maybe his existence might be justified (or maybe Simmons will be the one trying to prevent SHIELD from preventing the end of the world because she is so certain (now) that nothing will stop her from having a daughter). BUT again, I doubt that the showrunners have anything planned for him but: 

Deke - "Hey, my grandparents are Fitz and Simmons."

Fitz/May/Yo-Yo/Simmons/Coulson/Daisy/MackTalbot/Hale/Ruby/everyone else- "Ew."

That being said is anyone else wondering if the world-shattering even is actually Thanos and Infinity War and everything is just a massive red herring?

On 4/8/2018 at 11:17 PM, CaptainTightpants said:

I don't think it is anything like that, not Hydra or an evil organization.

 

 

Personally, at least making  Deke Hydra will at least be tiring to make his character more interesting than, "hey guess who are my grandparents?" Also, from a storywise perspective the showrunners love using Hydra, why not say that they survived the end of the world and Deke works for them? Maybe not a direct member, unlike Ward, but more like, "oh, they are my business contacts for smuggling goods....." or whatever (but doing so also makes him a Nazi, IMO. Since you know, Vichy France is still Vichy France. Then again, this is the same man that seems to have no problems working with the alien overlords that killed his mother and selling people into slavery). 

21 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Deke's basically Charlie the dog from Looney Tunes.

I didn't know until the AfterBuzz recap that the scene with Raina and Quinn was a deleted season 1 scene! I really thought they got Ruth Negga back and I had my hopes up they could get Adrianne Palecki too.

To be fair I had to look up who was Charlie the Dog (not that I never watched Loony Tunes- it just I never realized he had a name before) but was Charlie a scum bag (or a Loony Tune version of it?) or what? Deke trying to find a place will probably gravitate towards human traffickers and will probably get his ass kicked by Daredevil for doing it because apparently, he had a rough childhood, is just a scum bag, grew up in a society that thinks that selling people is okay, etc..., IMO. Trying to undermind Daisy, is just another red flag for this character, IMO. 

Edited April 10, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Quark]

It was a good episode.

Then I saw Raina and it became fabulous.

Bring her back!

[paigow]

Deke is still convinced that Daisy destroyed the planet. Therefore, pushing her out of SHIELD might change the future sufficiently. He is the random variable that Robin has not mentioned- i.e. man from the future comes back to 2017/18- and YoYo is convinced that Coulson!Dead is the solution. Deke is no longer Kyle Reese, but the T-800. He might kill Coulson and/ or Daisy to save the future...

[TVSpectator]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Deke is still convinced that Daisy destroyed the planet. Therefore, pushing her out of SHIELD might change the future sufficiently. He is the random variable that Robin has not mentioned- i.e. man from the future comes back to 2017/18- and YoYo is convinced that Coulson!Dead is the solution. Deke is no longer Kyle Reese, but the T-800. He might kill Coulson and/ or Daisy to save the future...

At this point, it's probably Thanos and they can't change the future because then they will effectively remove themselves out from Earth-199999 and also they can't affect the movies. So, this is probably why AoS likes the idea of, "you can't change the future" and have that come out of the mouths of the two supposed smartest characters on the show.  

[paigow]

If Thanos destroys Earth, where do the next wave of movies occur after Infinity War 2?

[TVSpectator]

12 hours ago, paigow said:

If Thanos destroys Earth, where do the next wave of movies occur after Infinity War 2?

Really, have no idea. On one hand you are right that their will be a Spider-Man 2, Ant-Man & The Wasp (which is basically saying Ant-Man 2), a Dr. Strange 2, a GotG Vol 3, a Captain Marvel, and Avengers 4 (currently Marvel Studios has claimed that they are withholding the name of the 4th Avengers' movie because it will reveal too much- at least the last time I checked). But let's break some of these movies down:

 

- GotG Vol 3 could very well take place a few months after Gotg Vol 2 since Vol 2 (according to Gunn) only took place a few months (like 4-6 months) after Vol 1. 

- Captain Marvel (currently being filmed) is set during the 1990s and may not entirely take place in the present.

- Ant-Man & The Wasp looks like it will take place either right after Civil War and/or a few months after Civil War. 

-Dr. Strange 2 and Spider-Man 2 & 3 will certainly take place sometime after Infinity War. Although, who knows if Avengers 4 will somehow "reset" everything in the MCU?

- Avengers 4 is pretty much a mystery to me but it is in the post-production stages because Marvel Studios (who do not make the TV shows. Actually, the only TV show that they even produced was Agent Carter and that was a co-production between Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment) filmed this movie right after they finished filming Infinity War (and there is a high likely hood that no one from AoS was invited to the filming set since they were also filming AoS during this time as well.

 

Again, though, SHIELD went to the future (well, more like 72-74 years into the future because the date 2091 is used as the point where they went). So, the possibility that Graviton was the result and no one even bothered to mention that he even existed (and I am having a bit of a hard time that absolutely no one passed down any information- like say- "Graviton or that man that came out of the Gravitrioum, and can create portals, lift things, etc... by word of mouth but they were able to pass down, destroyer of worlds  and one day SHIELD will return....). Not to mention that this whole time travel story really doesn't fit into what most fans believe when Infinity War will take place (there is a running theory that Infinity War will take place in 2019 and not 2018) but AoS kinds of chugs along with it's own weird story about the worlding ending that has to be shoehorned into the MCU, IMO, and there was also the passing reference of "it all started when the aliens came...." which could mean Thanos, The Black Order, and also his new alien army. Not to mention that Jed Whedon just made this comment:

Quote

 

FANDOM caught up with the cast and producers of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. at WonderCon, and asked them whether Avengers: Infinity War will have an effect on the show. As with all other Marvel films, the answer is yes. Marvel TV President Jeph Loeb also said, “We do what we do best, which is to acknowledge what’s happening in the world around us.”

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. co-creators Jed Whedon and Maurissa Tancharoen were also on hand to answer questions about how the show will connect to the film. Tancharoen jokingly said, “It would be a good idea to do that.”

Whedon also sounded like he had already seen a cut of Infinity War, or at least he had been briefed on the grand scope of the film, because he said, “The film they made is enormous,” — the emphasis of which you can hear him say in the interview above — and that they “can’t survive on the planet without referencing it in some way.”

 

http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/agents-of-shield-will-connect-avengers-infinity-war?li_source=LI&li_medium=wikia-rail

Edited April 12, 2018 by TVSpectator

[mac123x]

I hate to sound shallow, but I totally will -- the actress playing Hale's daughter is very distracting.  Honestly, she looks vaguely anime-ish.  The big pouty lips and the highlighted cheekbones are incredibly distracting.  To the point where I have to look away from the screen when she's on.

[Cranberry]

You're not alone. I can't take the actress seriously because I feel like she's always consciously trying to look sexy, with pouted, parted lips, which is not something this role calls for. She also looks like a porcelain doll to me -- she's too young and delicate and not believable as a trained fighter.

[Jack Shaftoe]

My goodness, Simmons and Yo-yo have sure been taking extra doses of the stupid pills lately. Sure, the "Let me play Russian roulette to prove I am invincible" scene did have a twist that made it a little less stupid than I thought it would be but it was still really, really dumb. No, it's not "science", Jemma, it can't be science since I am pretty sure nobody has yet proven how stable or not stable time loops are. If they had, why have you all been wondering about it this entire team? More importantly, you can't have it both ways - either the future cannot be changed in which case you shouldn't bother trying to prevent the destruction of Earth or it can be changed in which case you, Fitz and Yo-yo are not actually invincible. Am I missing something or this is kind of obvious and smart people like Elena and Jemma should have reached the same conclusion as me? They think they are invincible until they have changed the future, I guess? But how would they know this hasn't happened already? Deke being in this timeline is already a big change, isn't it?

But honestly, since there have been a zillion acts of insubordination by the main characters so far and there haven't been any repercussions bigger than a slap on the wrist, it's not exactly surprising that they are doing it again. It's just lazy storytelling. I think we can be quite sure that if they survive, the trio of rebels will be welcomed back into the fold quite easily indeed. But if Yo-yo and Simmons get killed, they would be legit candidates for a Darwin Award. Yay?

Coulson and Talbot were fun. But I call BS on finding the right mountain based on a child's drawing. Melinda and Robin tug at my heartstrings far more effectively than the daily dose of FitzSimmons angst, I gotta say.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Jack Shaftoe

[BaggythePanther]

Doing a rewatch and I forgot how annoying the Simmons/Yo-Yo “we’re invincible” plot was. I’m frustrated that everyone seems to have forgiven Fitz so easily, but I would be more willing to hand wave it if any of these characters had shown concern for Daisy. She was tortured, operated on against her will by someone she considered a friend and no one has asked her if she’s ok. They’re too busy making excuses for Fitz who has no remorse.

Spoiler

And then because of what happens to Fitz at the end of the season the storyline never really gets resolved.

I didn’t have a problem with Daisy as a leader. She wasn’t terrible and there wasn’t much she could do about the fact that half the team had gone crazy. And making Daisy temporary Director just felt like the writers acknowledging that storyline in the comics. They thought this would be the last season so they had to squeeze it in. 

[Orbert]

I agree with all of that.  The team moves so quickly from one crisis to another, there's rarely enough time to notice or respond to stuff like that, but it's more clear when you re-watch.  Usually keeping everything moving like that is to cover up plot holes, continuity errors, and other inconsistencies, but this show is actually pretty good about that kind of stuff.  But you're spot-on about them never really sitting and talking about some of the crap they've done to each other.