Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Lady Calypso]

I do think Laurel has no purpose as a masked superhero, but I think if they brought her back as a DA, she could work. But drop her down to guest star/recurring status. Have her appear only when the episode calls for her. Limit her appearances, and maybe, just maybe, she could be a better character. Personally, I'd rather see her go, but if they have to keep her, just let her be a DA and appear once in a while and minimally. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

In your opinion, all things equal, what are 5 things that could greatly improve the show for you guys?

 

Kill Laurel -- In the past I've advocated putting her on a one-way bus out of Star City. But now I think she needs to go permanently and in a big way. On this board we've talked about how it'll feel like a copout if a minor character ends up being in the grave. After all the winter promos teasing the big death as Felicity's, the only way, IMO, the show can match it later is to actually kill the second-billed actress, the "female lead." It would rid the show of an unnecessary character and would also raise the stakes and bring back the "value" of death on "Arrow." After 2 "resurrections" this season (on top of Oliver's and Thea's near-deaths in S3), Arrow needs one BIG death. And what's bigger than killing the Black Canary? Ignore the natural inclination to say "Arrow's LL is really not BC and not iconic," it would still be a shocker, especially for the general audience, IMO.

 

Be more consistent with voice motivations and POVs -- Followed a convo on Twitter recently about how Arrow doesn't allow its characters to explain their thought processes. It's really one of the biggest problems of the show, IMO, because I get frustrated if I don't know why somebody is doing something (e.g. Felicity choosing Ray in S3; Oliver lying to Felicity about the kid; I can guess why but I'd rather hear it).  I may not agree with the actions, but at least there's a chance I would understand the motivation. Also, there's always the risk that the audience would come up with a different interpretation and if the reasoning doesn't match, then disappointment and confusion would follow. (Of course, motivations can be included in "gotcha" moments but Arrow hasn't done that successfully, I think.)

 

Trim the fight scenes/let Oliver be kick ass again -- As others have mentioned, the group fight scenes are boring; break the fighting team apart and let individual fighters have their moments (except maybe for KC who can't sell a solid kick or punch). Yes, this is an action/adventure show but action and stunts don't have to mean just fighting. If you have to have fight scenes, then provide a better reason for it, give them emotional resonance. The Thea/Andy fight would have worked better for me if it were Diggle/Andy, for example. There would have been a payoff for that extended shot if at the end I got the reveal Diggle was fighting his brother. With Thea/Andy, what do I care about two pint-sized fighters going at it for a minute?

 

Pick up the pace of the flashbacks -- Stop wandering around the island. Cram more plot in there but don't give it more time. Have Oliver go dark NOW. Oh, and dump the boring companion.

 

Return to Original Team Arrow — I'm happiest when I have the "original gangstas" together. These are the characters I fell in love with. They are the reason episodes 1x09 to 2x09 represent the best Arrow "season" for me. The show doesn't have to try very hard when it focuses on these 3, IMO, because they have chemistry, history, foundation, a bond. The team CAN be expanded. It worked with Roy. It's working with Thea. But that's because there's an understanding that they are sidekicks and the real partnership is between Oliver/Diggle/Felicity. I'm hopeful that with S4B finally focusing on Diggle and Felicity that I'll get more of my OG3.

[bijoux]

They are the reason episodes 1x09 to 2x09 represent the best Arrow "season" for me.

 

I agree with almost everything you said, especially the second part of S1 and first part of S2 being the best this show has ever been. However, I've got to say that I just rewatched 1x09 (God damn excellent) and 1x10 last night. Gotta say, 1x10 was kind of a snooze. My attention wandered away more than once. Plus, I remember season 2 keeping the momentum for a few episodes (2 or 3) after the mid-season finale.

 

But all in all, excellent list. Particularly letting characters explain their actions.

[Morrigan2575]

I always said 113 or 114 (the S1 mostly flashback episode) to 209 was the best Arrow 'Season'

[tarotx]

I personally Loved the second half of 1, all of season 2 until the contrived Olicity Break up b(efore they really even tried) and the Sara death of 3.1.  The show has not been the same since though the s3 cross over and parts of he Flash episode of s4's cross over, The return and pieces of s3 and chunks of s4 have showed what the show can be.

 

I think Moira's death really changed the dynamic of the show more than anything. It's what I would go and erase if I could. I want them to bring Earth 2's Moira over. I don't care if she will be a bit different. I want that dynamic back. 

[AyChihuahua]

I wonder if the reason the fight was Andy/Thea instead of Andy/Digg was as simple as Andy's played by a tiny guy and Digg's played by a huge guy and it'd be really tough to make a fight bw them realistically last very long? I mean there were a few fights bw disparate opponents (including Digg and Isabel), but they were pretty quick. Because yeah, it's weird to make the big deal fight bw two people who basically have zero connection instead of bw actual brothers.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm feeling generous today so I hooked in 1x09 ;) The only ep I would throw away, really, is 1x10, which i agree with bijoux is a snoozer. But then I get OTA/Olicity moments in 11, 12 and 13 so I'm cool. tarotx, if they ever bring in Earth-2 folks, I'd love to see Moira again and a Felicity who's still all Goth. I just want to see Oliver's reaction :P

[GirlvsTV]

I wonder if the reason the fight was Andy/Thea instead of Andy/Digg was as simple as Andy's played by a tiny guy and Digg's played by a huge guy and it'd be really tough to make a fight bw them realistically last very long? I mean there were a few fights bw disparate opponents (including Digg and Isabel), but they were pretty quick. Because yeah, it's weird to make the big deal fight bw two people who basically have zero connection instead of bw actual brothers.

Didn't DR hurt his back earlier in this season? I remember wondering later if that resulted in the Andy/Thea fight because, you're right, it didn't really make sense story-wise. I liked watching the fight, but there was no emotional punch to it the way there is with other stand-out fight sequences on Arrow - like the final Slade/Oliver fight or the one where Oliver fought himself in 3x01. I've re-watched both of those numerous times, but other than thinking the Thea/Andy fight had cool moments I've never felt the desire to see it again.

Edited January 3, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[bijoux]

I think Moira's death really changed the dynamic of the show more than anything. It's what I would go and erase if I could. I want them to bring Earth 2's Moira over. I don't care if she will be a bit different. I want that dynamic back.

What if Earth 2 Moira totally dug Felicity? After all, she didn't get her son back and here she'd see him with a woman he loves and who loves him in return. I imagine it would freak the hell out of Felicity. Why is she being nice to me? Dig, if she murders me, I want baby Sara to have all my tech. Tell her to treat it kindly.

Season 2 is without a doubt the superior season, but there were some episodes where the momentum was lost between the MSF and the final batch of eps leading to the finale.

[Password]

I think Moira's death really changed the dynamic of the show more than anything.

I cannot agree more with this statement. Her death changed the show's tone completely for me.

[DeadZeus]

There hasn't been a real setpiece action scene imo. Like in S1: Arrow saving Walter by himself.. wow! S2: shooting RPG in the air and my personal favorite, Solomon Grundy pushing Oliver out of the truck and he lies on the door and slides over the ground. This is a real action scene to me. + solidifies Oliver as Badass and leagues above Diggle.

Missing these scenes in S4, so far it's just mindless hand to hand combat. Atleast nothing memorable.

I liked Oliver's speed shooting in Flash cross over episode but it bet it will be completely absent and forgotten about in the future...

[lemotomato]

There hasn't been a real setpiece action scene imo. Like in S1: Arrow saving Walter by himself.. wow! S2: shooting RPG in the air and my personal favorite, Solomon Grundy pushing Oliver out of the truck and he lies on the door and slides over the ground. This is a real action scene to me. + solidifies Oliver as Badass and leagues above Diggle.

Missing these scenes in S4, so far it's just mindless hand to hand combat. Atleast nothing memorable.

I liked Oliver's speed shooting in Flash cross over episode but it bet it will be completely absent and forgotten about in the future...

There was the long tracking fight sequence in 407, but that was Speedy/Thea, and Laurel/BC got a solo fight through a hallway full of bad guys sequence. The only person the show is not interested in giving a memorable fight scene this season is Oliver.

[AyChihuahua]

There was the long tracking fight sequence in 407, but that was Speedy/Thea, and Laurel/BC got a solo fight through a hallway full of bad guys sequence. The only person the show is not interested in giving a memorable fight scene this season is Oliver.

Was that the one with the bad cops, in which Laurel got zapped by a tazer, gracefully laid down on the floor, got comfortable, made sure she looked pretty and then closed her eyes to simulate unconsciousness?

 

That was SO bad.

[wonderwall]

There was the long tracking fight sequence in 407, but that was Speedy/Thea, and Laurel/BC got a solo fight through a hallway full of bad guys sequence. The only person the show is not interested in giving a memorable fight scene this season is Oliver.

 

Remember, Oliver/Diggle (the more formidable fighters) need to be shoved into the background in action scenes so the newbies can have their time to shine to justify to the audience that they are needed and are good fighters...

 

It's honestly no coincidence that the fighting has gone downhill the second Laurel and Thea came onto the team. It just doesn't help that KC/WH need stunt doubles to do their scenes which tend to lower the quality of the fight scenes. Not only that but Bamford's team isn't good at choreographing fight scenes with more than 2 people. That's why the stronger fight scenes are usually in S1-2 when it was just Oliver Vs Bad Guy. Remember the fight scene with Slade? That was masterful. No one other than Stephen could accomplish something like that because he doesn't need a stunt double (most of the time) which allows the camera to focus on HIM in said fight scenes. This isn't a dig at the actors, they have their own strengths (WH is a fantastic actress, IMO and KC is... not the worst actress in the world). 

Edited January 3, 2016 by wonderwall

[Happy Harpy]

I do think Laurel has no purpose as a masked superhero, but I think if they brought her back as a DA, she could work. But drop her down to guest star/recurring status. Have her appear only when the episode calls for her. Limit her appearances, and maybe, just maybe, she could be a better character. Personally, I'd rather see her go, but if they have to keep her, just let her be a DA and appear once in a while and minimally. 

She doesn't annoy me much when she's in the background and not parasiting OTA and imo the biggest mistake the writers did with her was to persist in giving her a place on the frontburner that she wasn't made for; so I agree that once in a while and minimally would be an improvement. But although I'm afraid that @KirkB is right, and the EPs probably won't have the balls or the good sense to kill Laurel off, I think it's even less likely that K.Cassidy, who certainly doesn't come cheap and IIRC is still contracted as a main character, will be used in a such limited capacity. Unless the EPs lied and she's the floater.

 

I cannot agree more with this statement. Her death changed the show's tone completely for me.

Maybe we need a thread specially devoted to commiserate about her death. J/k, but I feel that many of us express such a regret lately in many threads. 

 

I hope the writers will think long and hard about whoever is in the grave, so as not to repeat the same mistake imo. I'm still thinking it's Roy, hoping it's Laurel, but I'm waffling lately. I'm wondering if it could be Alex. It would be a cop-out but if, for example, he died saving Thea because Oliver failed to do so (incapacitated, or fooled by Darhk and sent after a red herring, etc.) maybe the repercussions on Oliver could give more weight and significance to his demise than what his place as (imo) Nice Bland Boyfriend in the Background would originally bring. The parallel with Tommy and all the people Oliver considered he failed to save would add to the emotional resonance.

Yet at the same time, it could allow to show how Oliver has evolved, and now realizes that everything isn't his fault, or his sole responsibility -since he's calmly angry at the grave, proactive in an avenging way, instead of fleeing or wallowing or getting ready to commit suicide by LoA. Yet another death would be better used for showcasing strength rather than creating manpain and angst. Of course Oliver would feel a certain amount of guilt, because he cares about people and wants to save them all. But if he at long last has understood that when people decide to sacrifice themselves, it isn't on him, if he decides to honor/avenge/go on fighting for them instead of stubbornly punishing himself like imo in S3...in other words, if Oliver finally breaks the vicious circle of guilt and self-blame he's been a prisoner of since the moment Sara disappeared in the ocean imo, maybe this grave storyline won't be the disaster I fear.

(I guess that a girl can dream)

[BkWurm1]

Was thinking about the fight sequences and one of the biggest missteps made with the use of everyone all the time is that it makes the big team up common place.  Getting everyone together in a fight should have been a big freaken' event moment.  Even with the crossover, the show runners wanted everyone to get all excited about all the masks lined up in one place but they'd already sucked the fun out of a big team up since were had those every week twice an episode.  What's just a few more faces added to the crowd?  The times when everyone is in the same place, fighting the same enemy at the same time should have been saved for only the most extreme moments.  It should have had impact but since everyone goes even when they just need to break in and get one thing, it feels like a joke. 

 

They could have easily run concurrent missions if they still want everyone to have their moment but have them happening in different places for different reasons. 

[calliope1975]

Was thinking about the fight sequences and one of the biggest missteps made with the use of everyone all the time is that it makes the big team up common place.  Getting everyone together in a fight should have been a big freaken' event moment.  Even with the crossover, the show runners wanted everyone to get all excited about all the masks lined up in one place but they'd already sucked the fun out of a big team up since were had those every week twice an episode.  What's just a few more faces added to the crowd?  The times when everyone is in the same place, fighting the same enemy at the same time should have been saved for only the most extreme moments.  It should have had impact but since everyone goes even when they just need to break in and get one thing, it feels like a joke. 

 

I really liked the Big Damn Hero moment in S2 when the crew was going to fight Slade's army. It was 5 across, right? That made an impact. There's way too many people now, and showing them all together instead of splitting them into groups kind of makes them look incompetent to me since they are taking down TA left and right.

 

Why are the Ghosts so strong? I got it with the Mirakuru army, but these are just regular dudes, though apparently more than a few have military training. Do the Magic Monsanto pills make them super strong? Did I miss that? Why are they so unbeatable? 

 

I'm hoping (though not expecting) to bring some new stunt blood into the show. It started out so well, but has really become disappointing.

[tarotx]

If the death is Alex the only way I'll accept that is if Thea is the one who brutally kills him. That way Oliver's tear is for Thea's soul and the He is MM for feeding Thea's blood lust.

[AyChihuahua]

If the death is Alex the only way I'll accept that is if Thea is the one who brutally kills him. That way Oliver's tear is for Thea's soul and the He is MM for feeding Thea's blood lust.

That is kind of brilliant.

[bijoux]

Whoa. Talk about a twist. So, it's almost positive that won't be it.

[wonderwall]

That would be awesome and a real shocker. 

 

But on the other hand..... Do I want another season of Oliver saving Thea's soul? Have I suffered enough of that in Season 3? Hmmm 

[tarotx]

I posted it as a best case scenario if the writers wimp out. I was just trying to make Alex's death work since people periodically mention that he could be the FF death if the writers wimp out. But just now I can't help but think about how it could tie a lot of things together from the past two seasons. But is the goal really turning Thea into a killer? That could mean Thea turns into the Dark Archer? That just makes me miss Moira again :(

[Primal Slayer]

The quality of fight scenes has definitely gone down but I don't contribute it to having to use more stunt doubles/adding more heroes. Buffy did amazing fight scenes that relied on stunt doubles, they just don't seem to take the necessary time anymore to come up with intricate fight scenes anymore. 

[wonderwall]

I posted it as a best case scenario if the writers wimp out. I was just trying to make Alex's death work since people periodically mention that he could be the FF death if the writers wimp out. But just now I can't help but think about how it could tie a lot of things together from the past two seasons. But is the goal really turning Thea into a killer? That could mean Thea turns into the Dark Archer? That just makes me miss Moira again :(

 

It definitely fits with the way they're writing Thea/Malcolm's relationship (they're pretty much frenemies at this point). I will never understand why Thea thinks of Malcolm as her father considering he never was one to her regardless of blood. But they could be setting something up there where Thea becomes the Dark Archer under Malcolm's tutelage and Malcolm remains as Ra's. 

 

It could definitely pose as an interesting conundrum for S5. Should Oliver fight his own sister? One he's cherished for so long? Or can he find another way to bring her back from the brink of no return (aka before she does something as bad as the Undertaking)? How far is too far for Thea? Willa is definitely a good enough actress to pull this off and it would give her a meatier story... 

 

Also this could bring back Malcolm as the big bad for S5 and Oliver can finally kill him off by the end of it. 

 

I just don't really want Oliver to lose another one of his family members though. I feel like after 8ish years of suffering, he deserves something good in his life. He deserves to have the family he yearns for without anything messing that up.

Edited January 4, 2016 by wonderwall

[lemotomato]

The quality of fight scenes has definitely gone down but I don't contribute it to having to use more stunt doubles/adding more heroes. Buffy did amazing fight scenes that relied on stunt doubles, they just don't seem to take the necessary time anymore to come up with intricate fight scenes anymore. 

It's simple math. The amount of time and resources allotted to stunts is fixed. Adding more characters into fight scenes =  everyone gets a smaller piece of the planning pie. For every main character in the fight scene, you need to coordinate 2 people-- the double and the actor. Even in most of season 3 there were only two main characters out in the field at a time. Now you have 4 main characters fighting in nearly every episode, so instead of working with 4 people, you need 8. Of course the quality has gone down. 

 

I was at Bamford's panel at Heroes and Villains Fanfest where he talked about his directing experience. Considering how stunt-heavy the show tries to be, the timeline they work with is insane. I don't blame the stunt crew for making the best out of what they have considering what's expected of them. I blame TPTB that seem convinced that we need all the fighters front and center all the time.

Edited January 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[Primal Slayer]

They don't seem to bother to do that many back and forth shots between stunt/actor in their fight scenes, Even in the scenes where it isn't a big group fight, they still aren't as strong as they were in S1-2. 

[BkWurm1]

Thea does remember that Malcolm murdered the man she called father, doesn't she? 

[wonderwall]

Thea does remember that Malcolm murdered the man she called father, doesn't she? 

 

Wait......... Thea had a father before Malcolm??? Wait.... Thea had TWO fathers before Malcolm??? When did this happen? 

[AyChihuahua]

Thea does remember that Malcolm murdered the man she called father, doesn't she? 

I don't know how Thea can be expected to remember something that the show itself does not. 

[tv echo]

I loved all the Oliver/Felicity, Oliver/Diggle and OTA moments in S1 - unfortunately, I had to sit through tons of other stuff to get to them.  

 

FYI, Felicity was not in episodes 101, 102, 105, 107, 110 and 113.  But she's been in every other episode of Arrow.

 

I really loved the first half of S2, and ITA with Laura Hurley's assessment of S2:

I love the first half of Season 2. 2x01 - 2x10 might be my very favorite stretch of the show before Season 4. It was mostly well-written and balanced on a character level, and the action sequences were some of the best of the entire series. I thought that Sara was great as a figure who could drop in and out from time to time without taking over the narrative, and it was really the last time that Oliver was the star of his own show week in and week out.

The second half of Season 2 was a disappointment for me. Most of the episodes are more or less a blur to me because I just wasn’t as interested as I had been. The Lance family drama consistently brings out the ugliest side of Oliver, and the flashbacks started to fall apart for me. Oliver/Slade/Sara in the past and Oliver/Slade/Sara in the present was an Oliver/Slade/Sara overload. The finale run was pretty great, but a lot of the second half of Season 2 frankly bored me. I did miss Digg and Felicity.

http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/136566342064/i-want-to-hear-your-thoughts-on-this-the-popular

Edited January 4, 2016 by tv echo

[johntfs]

Regarding the grave in 4.01 (which I actually have yet to see), it's possible that the person in it is the mother of Oliver's son.  If she's dead, that could set up him as a dad for next season.  And also set up another Oliver/Felicity breakup/reconcile.  I can't really see Emily Bett Rickards leaving the show whatever her character's relationship to Oliver is at any given moment.

[bijoux]

Even if it is... Oh, crap, what's her name? I start to type Sandra because that was the assumption from S2, but I know it's not. Samantha? Ok, if it's her (and I certainly won't shed any tears over her, because she is the worst), no way can this show support Oliver and Felicity raising a kid with everything going on in their lives. It's just not structured that way. He'd get sent off with his maternal grandparents and that would be that.

[Starfish35]

I don't think it's Samantha. The only reason to kill her off would be to bring William into Oliver's life full-time, and I don't think they're prepared to do that. And if they are not going to do that, there's no point in killing her off. It's not like there's a shortage of candidates for the grave.

ETA: Obviously I could be very wrong about their interest in making Oliver a full-time dad, though. I remember being very convinced that they were not going to make Thea Sara's killer, and I guess we know how that turned out. :(

Edited January 4, 2016 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

These EPs have done stupider things, but they would have to be pretty loony tunes to bring in a child actor, whose only credits EVER are the two crossover episodes, in any kind of recurring and/or regular role.

[AyChihuahua]

I think the kid was always going to be a romantic stall and nothing more. Even if they'd used the Connor Hawke name, a 9-year-old is nowhere near a budding superhero, and this show is not going for ten more years to give him time to become a superhero. Actually, if Oliver and Laurel had worked, it would have been fine. There would have been no reason for present-day Oliver to lie to get to the romantic stall, because Laurel would have been plenty pissed about having a child-shaped physical representation of Oliver's prior cheating shoved right in her face. He tells the truth, she gets (reasonably) mad about it, wonders if he's truly changed, and calls for a time-out. It would have worked out SO MUCH BETTER than turning present-day Oliver back into a lying sack of Ollie-shaped crap. BM would still have been a liar and a terrible person (seriously, she is so so so terrible), but there would have been no reason for the contrived crap of her telling him to lie to everyone, because the story would have been Laurel wondering how much Oliver had really changed, rather than Felicity realizing he hasn't changed at all when it comes to secrets and lies.

 

After a couple months, with the kid showing up every so often (because people wouldn't have hated the storyline so much and would have been more okay with the kid being around occasionally), Laurel truly realizes Oliver's not that guy anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Just the right amount of angsty romantic stall.

 

So basically, if not for the entirely justified fandom meltdown I think he would have shown up every so often, and been mentioned a bit more, but no way is he going to move to SC and live with Oliver full-time. That was never going to happen, and it's even less likely now.

Edited January 4, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

These writers are many things, but I doubt they would

want to deal with the hassles of writing a school age adolescent boy. Never mind even if they did I doubt the show would want to be saddled with the administrative & financial hassles of a child actor. There's so much that impedes the budget, especially on a budget strapped show like Arrow.

If the kid was slightly older and could be played by an 18y old, I might be concerned. But 9/10 is just too young to be played by an adult. And yet too old to be played by a toddler which has more rules I think, but you don't need them speaking or acting for multiple takes. The only reason I think baby sara was not the one kidnapped was because budget & shooting wise made it cost and time prohibitive.

William is the perfect age to keep offscreen for a few seasons and the age him up and bring him in when series needs new blood.

[BkWurm1]

The only reason I think baby sara was not the one kidnapped was because budget & shooting wise made it cost and time prohibitive.

 

That and I don't think Baby Sara would have been able to pull off grabbing what Felicity smuggled in and turn around guns blazing...though I think I would have paid money to see that!

Edited January 4, 2016 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

Who's to say. She's Lyla's kid after all.

[tv echo]

I think the EPs wrote themselves into a hole by using DNA to prove conclusively that William is Oliver's son.  I would've preferred that Oliver only thought William was his son, but then finds out that he wasn't.  Now, the only way out is to use the same fuzzy DNA analysis (that tested Thea's DNA on the arrow that 'killed' Sara and turned up Oliver's face) to make it possible that William is Robert Queen's son and not Oliver's. Even then, blech...

[calliope1975]

Now, the only way out is to use the same fuzzy DNA analysis (that tested Thea's DNA on the arrow that 'killed' Sara and turned up Oliver's face) to make it possible that William is Robert Queen's son and not Oliver's. Even then, blech...

 

The way this show rolls this wouldn't surprise me in the least. It's going to be my new head canon so I won't throw my remote at my TV whenever this story pops up again.

[AyChihuahua]

I think the EPs wrote themselves into a hole by using DNA to prove conclusively that William is Oliver's son.  I would've preferred that Oliver only thought William was his son, but then finds out that he wasn't.  Now, the only way out is to use the same fuzzy DNA analysis (that tested Thea's DNA on the arrow that 'killed' Sara and turned up Oliver's face) to make it possible that William is Robert Queen's son and not Oliver's. Even then, blech...

I'd be totally down with that, but he'd still be Oliver's half-brother, so Oliver'd still want him around. Worst of all Oliver's already lied and kept it secret, even after he had enough time to process the information and realize he didn't need to keep it from Felicity.

 

Also, man that'd be gross. Father/son who both banged TWO women? Although I've always loved the face SA makes after he realizes Isabel was his father's mistress, so I could probably get over that.

Edited January 5, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[bijoux]

I think the EPs wrote themselves into a hole by using DNA to prove conclusively that William is Oliver's son. I would've preferred that Oliver only thought William was his son, but then finds out that he wasn't. Now, the only way out is to use the same fuzzy DNA analysis (that tested Thea's DNA on the arrow that 'killed' Sara and turned up Oliver's face) to make it possible that William is Robert Queen's son and not Oliver's. Even then, blech...

I thought about this too. If it happens, it will frankly make me respect Samantha (damn it, I keep calling her Sandra) in a weird, perverse way. Because swindling Moira Queen and getting money for presumably her grandson, but who is actually the fruit of her husband's loins is pretty damn gutsy.

Also, man that'd be gross. Father/son who both banged TWO women? Although I've always loved the face SA makes after he realizes Isabel was his father's mistress, so I could probably get over that.

Imagine if Oliver started polling the women he hooked up with. Hey, Joan, I know we haven't been in touch since my third college, but quick question. Did you ever bang my dad?

Speaking of sharing bedmates, I could practically swear that there's something like "Ollie and Tommy used to swap girls" on Wikia, but that was never stated on the show, right?

Edited January 5, 2016 by bijoux

[tv echo]

Speaking of sharing bedmates, I could practically swear that there's something like "Ollie and Tommy used to swap girls" on Wikia, but that was never stated on the show, right?

 

That sounds very familiar.  I think that was either said on the show or in the tie-in comics, but I'm not sure.

[bijoux]

Turns out, the props department actually used Moira's ring to give Felicity.

[Chaser]

That doesn't look like the same ring to me. Similar but not the same.

[kismet]

Turns out, the props department actually used Moira's ring to give Felicity.

Always the budget friendly show when it comes to props and sets :)

[kismet]

I think the EPs wrote themselves into a hole by using DNA to prove conclusively that William is Oliver's son.  I would've preferred that Oliver only thought William was his son, but then finds out that he wasn't.  Now, the only way out is to use the same fuzzy DNA analysis (that tested Thea's DNA on the arrow that 'killed' Sara and turned up Oliver's face) to make it possible that William is Robert Queen's son and not Oliver's. Even then, blech...

Sorry guys I'm gonna have to pass on the RQ/OQ Eskimo brother part deux (or perhaps the prequel?) that resulted in a half-brother. It's just a little too much. I know RQ got around, but I just don't want to think he was hanging around OQ and his friends to find his partners. That being said, I fully expect there to be a RQ bastard child that will become The Queen's new beloved sibling in s6 or s7, maybe as soon as s5.

 

Plus, it doesn't eliminate the fact that OQ is withholding secrets from FS which is the worst part of the story. Him having a child that was conceived long before he met FS does not bother me. Him wanting to be part of that child's life does not bother me. Heck them bringing the kid on the show probably wouldn't even bother me if they used it as a way to give OQ a family & not a drama wrench to come between O/F. Because I think once the initial anger/emotion wears off, FS will be very embracing of OQ having a son. Plus, they'd have to promise BM would not want to get OQ back. But OQ choosing to keep it from FS, even if I understand his reasons and am giving him a little leeway on revealing it to her does bother me. To quote the time erased FS, OQ having a kid does not bother me, it's him not telling people about it that is troublesome & frustrating.

[BkWurm1]

That being said, I fully expect there to be a RQ bastard child that will become The Queen's new beloved sibling in s6 or s7, maybe as soon as s5.

 

I think this would only happen if Thea died/left. 

 

Thinking though of what they could do if the show went on past six seasons terrifies me more than just a little. 

 

Makes me go back to hoping TMNT2 is at least a commercial success.  Need to turn SA into an action hero so Arrow doesn't resort to even crazier plot lines to stretch the show out. 

[DeadZeus]

Not sure how i feel about being introduced to the main villain of the season in literally the first episode. In S1 and S2 u didn't know who was really the mastermind until the mid season finale or after. So the stakes get higher.

But now we are introduced to DD being the main villain immediatly which pretty much tells me that every confrontation they have will result in nothing because the big season ending fight will probably be in the last episode right? But it does seem HIVE is a bit bigger then DD but still... It totally took the tension away for me even though DD is a very charismatic villain.

 

Also Oliver needs to receive some training on the island ASAP! In S1 he used a flechette dart with such accuracy to hit a nerve in a dudes hand so he couldn't detonate a bomb anymore. Current Island Oliver is defintely not that skilled yet imo. He hasn't even properly trained with a bow since S2 island asfar as i know.
And it kinda seems the writers forgot Oliver even ever used flechettedarts because they are completely absent now.

 

I was really expecting Oliver to have some alone time on the island to hone his skills. But so far he just keeps messing around lol. And he's never alone :S
 

[johntfs]

Not sure how i feel about being introduced to the main villain of the season in literally the first episode. In S1 and S2 u didn't know who was really the mastermind until the mid season finale or after. So the stakes get higher.

But now we are introduced to DD being the main villain immediatly which pretty much tells me that every confrontation they have will result in nothing because the big season ending fight will probably be in the last episode right? But it does seem HIVE is a bit bigger then DD but still... It totally took the tension away for me even though DD is a very charismatic villain.

 

Also Oliver needs to receive some training on the island ASAP! In S1 he used a flechette dart with such accuracy to hit a nerve in a dudes hand so he couldn't detonate a bomb anymore. Current Island Oliver is defintely not that skilled yet imo. He hasn't even properly trained with a bow since S2 island asfar as i know.

And it kinda seems the writers forgot Oliver even ever used flechettedarts because they are completely absent now.

 

I was really expecting Oliver to have some alone time on the island to hone his skills. But so far he just keeps messing around lol. And he's never alone :S

 

 

He has to keep having those early adventures.  That's how he got the experience points to become Season One Arrow.

 

One thing really interesting to me is how you can see the shape of pre-Olicity Arrow over the course of the first 13 episodes.  Figure in some sad, lesser world, Emily Bett Rickards (I refuse to abbreviate names.  It can be confusing and feels mildly disrespectful.  It doesn't that much longer to type the extra letters) had her two scenes in Episode 1.03 and then disappeared into Canadian obscurity.  At that point figure that Walter would have had some random minion do his investigation and ultimately hand off the book to Oliver after Walter was kidnapped.  Meanwhile, Oliver would have been going to different, somewhat quirky, Queen Consolidated experts making up excuse for whatever weird, potentially dangerous thing he wanted to know.

 

Figure that in 1.14 Oliver would likely have wound up in either Laurel or Thea's car, bringing one of them into the fold much faster.

 

As is, I'm kind of glad things worked out as they did.