Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[kismet]

I want to see Thea actually have some residual side effects from the LP. I would sorta like to see her have lapses in memory or judgment or something. Blackouts would be interesting.

 

I'm really over the Verdant set/cover - so I wouldn't mind if they dropped that from her & OQ storyline. The DJ story really killed the tiny interest I had in watching scenes play out in Verdant. Plus OQ doesn't really need it now that he is not lying to his loved ones about his nightly activities. And Roy is no longer around needing a job.

 

I'm hesitant to not have them all do nothing all day, but I wonder if perhaps her & OQ could get together to start a new business venture, charity or something. I miss the galas of previous seasons.

[quarks]

I think, for reasons that have nothing to do with the narrative and everything to do with ratings, the floater has to be a fan favorite or at least relatively popular/non controversial, terms that don't really describe Laurel right now.

[tarotx]

The BC in the comics is the reason Laurel should Give Sara back her Canary and Adapt a new Alias.

Sara can be White Canary while all crazy from Death and the LP and Laurel stealing her identity. The sister hashout Canaries 2.0. This time the they really deal with Their perceptions/reality that they pert Ray each other with Ollie abd the Canary.

Edited June 19, 2015 by tarotx

[AyChihuahua]

"Laurel somehow is supposedly keeping up with her day job and training and out every night looking after the city.  ANY time I let myself seriously look at her life I start feeling the rant about the impossibility of pulling off any meaningful training hours plus a full time job (that frequently would entail late hours) plus tracking and apprehending the bad guys (plus maintaining costumes and equipment) PLUS sleep just start to froth and foam within me.   I guess before I start looking for anything in Laurel's life that resembles real life that she can turn to in order to feel rejuvenated when the stress of the mask starts weighing her down, I just want to stop face palming every time I think about her supposed life.

 

The hours just don't add up."

 

If you think about it at all realistically, none of the hours these people, including Felicity, work are remotely realistic.  They would never have time to so much as go to the dentist or the drug store or do laundry, and they'd mostly be really, really unhealthy from lack of sleep and stress and takeout.  Unless one happens to be the very rare individual who genetically requires very little sleep (which I can handwave Oliver as being), one needs AT LEAST six regular hours of sleep, and longterm even that will cause concentration problems and physical issues.  I can't really give Laurel too much of a hard time re hours when Felicity works basically the same hours, although of course she doesn't have to train, and her job isn't physical.  But mental acuity goes in the toilet without enough sleep at least as much as physical ability.

 

On another note, I could actually get behind one episode of Oliver being a tiny bit rusty, if they play it for laughs.  Not out of shape, but maybe have him actually miss once and be all pouty about it. 

Edited June 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

I think, for reasons that have nothing to do with the narrative and everything to do with ratings, the floater has to be a fan favorite or at least relatively popular/non controversial, terms that don't really describe Laurel right now.

We've talked a lot about the floater before in this & LoT thread so no need to restate the options. I have a feeling that the floater may actually not be that big of a live actor role, now that more info is being revealed about the show. It might just be a name they drop a lot, like how used Lyla this year. Part of me feels like the floater for s4a is going to be Oliver since he'll have some free time. Also SA said Coast City is gonna be important. I wonder if that will play a role with the spinoff & floater role.

[tv echo]

I'm concerned with how much time in Season 4A will be devoted to setting up LoT with Ray and resurrected Sara, and how much time in 4B will be devoted to setting up another possible spinoff (BoP?).

Edited June 19, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Even EW is speculating about SA's 4x01 tweet...

Let’s be real. Odds are Thea is in danger in one of three ways:

 

1. Remember that time she was brought back to life by the Lazarus Pit? Well, maybe those side effects are finally coming into play.
2. Crazy Malcolm—now the new Ra’s al Ghul—decides he wants Thea to join the League (and doesn’t give her much of a choice).
3. This is Starling City, so she could easily be in some sort of life-or-death situation that the team can’t seem to save her from, which leads to them calling Ollie. Because if there’s one person he’ll do anything to save, it’s his little sister.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/18/arrow-stephen-amell-trouble-thea-season-4?hootPostID=8e40c6ae95b513924ced3c0f8877d8bd

[statsgirl]

If TPTB weren't probably intent on bringing them back before episode one was over, I'd expect to see signs from each of them separately that they were missing the fight (we still might get that) but neither wanting to disappoint the other by suggesting their trip should end. 

 

A scene maybe where as Oliver turns the door handle on the hotel room, Felicity quickly whips off her head set and hides it under a pillow so he doesn't know she just finished helping hack something for Thea in Starling.  (Bonus points if she seeks to distract him with sexy times)  Maybe for Oliver, instead of the Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream run scenario, Felicity runs into a gift shop to buy a postcard to send and in the three minutes she's gone, he takes on a couple hard core muggers (you know the kind, the really tough ones that hang in dark alleys- the kind Laurel has trouble with) and leaves them in a heap for the police to deal with as he and Felicity walk away, Felicity non the wiser. 

 

I think character wise, both WANT to be doing what they were doing, it's just after the relentless misery of everything in season 3 they NEEDED a break or they'd both have had a mental breakdown.   They both NEEDED a break much, much earlier and I hope somewhere in season four they acknowledge that all of them are human and need to take a step back sometimes.  It would be lovely and fitting if Oliver could have a chance to be the voice of reason for Diggle if/when things get too intense with HIVE and finding out about his brother's murder. 

That could be comic gold.  It would lighten Arrow up after a very depressing season, and contrast to The Flash which feels like it's getting darker now.

.  And if Brandon Routh is going to be on Arrow before he leaves for his own show, his best scenes are goofy Ray against stoic Oliver.

 

I think it would give SA and EBR a break too.  SA really likes doing lighter things and EBR said that the one thing she wanted for Felicity next year was to make her lighter and bring back the comedy.

 

He barely had 5 minutes of screentime per episode across 2-3 eps and then was  killed off. 

Yes, but there was also a lot of publicity bumph around him signing on.  If they wanted to make it work with Kathleen Gatti, they could.

 

I think that they just don't want to do a storyline in which Raisa figures and it's ridiculous to hire the actress to act just as the person who opens the door to let the cops in, especially now that there is no more Queen Manor.

 

But the season that we get Oliver Bratva flashbacks, whether it's in 4 or 5, there's a chance they could write a present day storyline for her to contrast with the Russia one in the past.  I'll never lose hope.

 

LL/BC as the floater could be brilliant. She could be free of her messy relationship history with Oliver and assert herself in ways that don't seem merely reactionary to him.

It would solve so many of their problems.  They could honor BC's comic book legacy without the mess that the character of Laurel Lance has created.  If they got her away from Oliver and the O/D/F team, I think she could become more popular, or at least not as unpopular.  She did well in the scenes where she was acting as a lawyer and not competing as either boss, love interest, or muscle on the

team.

 

I don't think they're brave enough to do it though.  It will probably by Lyla as head of ARGUS, or possibly Roy if they want to keep that connection.  Thea will take over as Oliver's sidekick and Laurel will once again be sticking out like a sore thumb in the storyline.

 

I would like to hope that they learned from the post Christmas hiatus episodes that Oliver is too important to the show to be the floater.

[Starfish35]

Didn't MG already rule out Laurel being the floater?

I think it probably will be Lyla. That just makes the most sense to me. As much as I'd love to get Laurel off Arrow, I can't see her fitting in on either of the other shows. Even with her connection to Sara, if that show is about traveling in time, I'm not sure how Laurel's going to just stop for a Hi Sis! And I'm not really up for seeing more of Cisco's fanboying over her on Flash, and she has nothing to connect her with anyone else on that show.

[statsgirl]

Yes, MG has ruled out both Laurel and Felicity as the floater.

[frenchtoast]

Heads up, just moved a couple of posts about Oliver's relationship with Thea to the Relationship topic. And the title of that topic just makes the conversation even creepier, but there you have it. 

 

Thanks!

[Soulfire]

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/121945993729/marc-can-we-have-a-little-olicity-dialogue-tease#notes

 

I had no clue where to post this. Move as you see fit, mods.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Soulfire

[Delphi]

Whoa Miss Smoak, phrasing.

[wonderwall]

I'm good with innuendos as long as it doesn't lead to her babbling about her and Oliver's sex life like what happened when she went to CC with Ray. 

 

But that made me choke on my water, so well done writers :p 

 

Oh god I hope Felicity isn't clingy when they get back from their vacation. 

Edited June 19, 2015 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

Whoa Miss Smoak, phrasing.

That was actually a good one, shame they cut the line.

[apinknightmare]

That was actually a good one, shame they cut the line.

 

My thoughts exactly!

[Delphi]

I'm good with innuendos as long as it doesn't lead to her babbling about her and Oliver's sex life like what happened when she went to CC with Ray.

But that made me choke on my water, so well done writers :p

Oh god I hope Felicity isn't clingy when they get back from their vacation.

Oh don't get me wrong I live the innuendos. I wish that hadn't got cut actually.

[BkWurm1]

I'm good with innuendos as long as it doesn't lead to her babbling about her and Oliver's sex life like what happened when she went to CC with Ray.

 

Yes, the way to do innuendos is drop them, let the weird looks ensue and then at most add in a "And moving along"  Don't dwell or call more attention to it.  It's soooo much funnier that way.  Otherwise it's like explaining a joke. 

[dtissagirl]

Hee, that one has "no good for 8pm" written all over it. Too bad, it's a fun one.

[Soulfire]

About the floater, this account from someone attending the con in Paris a couple weeks ago indicates Roy might be the floater. 

 

-Colton Haynes/Roy should be the character who moves around from show to show and is the link between The Flash, Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow.

 

 

Also, in this interview from the same con he hints at it, too. Around 2:45. 

 

Edited June 19, 2015 by Soulfire

[Chaser]

As hard as it is to ignore that innuendo (and I agree with everyone that it is awesome), it does imply something about 4x01. It sounds like they ask Oliver to come back to town. 

[foreverevolving]

Hee, that one has "no good for 8pm" written all over it. Too bad, it's a fun one.

really? because I think it's like those cartoon movies/shows jokes.. where the kids think its super innocent and fail to understand the hidden meaning; while the adults do get it.. which is why we have stupid people not wanting stuff like that at 8pm, even though most kids awake at that time will not see the sexual meaning in it.

[BkWurm1]

really? because I think it's like those cartoon movies/shows jokes.. where the kids think its super innocent and fail to understand the hidden meaning; while the adults do get it.. which is why we have stupid people not wanting stuff like that at 8pm, even though most kids awake at that time will not see the sexual meaning in it.

As the line stood it would have been good to go over the heads of the kid but it getting cut probably indicates that they did NOT just drop it and move on.  Once they start elaborating on it and explaining it away, yeah, then it would be too explicit.  I guess. 

 

About the line SA tweeted "What's wrong Speedy?"  To me it doesn't sound like Thea is the one in trouble but the one calling him home for something else...unless Thea calls sounding crazy or something.  

[dtissagirl]

I could sorta see the censor folks not letting the line stand solely for the word "coming".

[lemotomato]

I roll my eyes when I think of how innuendo like that can't get past the censors, but showing people get skewered by swords (and then showing those scenes repeatedly in recaps) is totally ok.

[wonderwall]

I roll my eyes when I think of how innuendo like that can't get past the censors, but showing people get skewered by swords (and then showing those scenes repeatedly in recaps) is totally ok.

 

Maybe the network is okay with that kind of penetration? 

[kismet]

Maybe the network is okay with that kind of penetration?

Nicely done! I think that wins tonight! :)

I'm looking forward to s4 so far based on what SA & MG have let drop so far.

[wingster55]

Felicity's inneundo/saying the wrong thing can grate at times but that was great.

 

Now...

 

About the line SA tweeted "What's wrong Speedy?"  To me it doesn't sound like Thea is the one in trouble but the one calling him home for something else...unless Thea calls sounding crazy or something.

Agreed...Stephen referred to it as a "description" of the ep so I'm hoping/thinking that it's more than her being in trouble on the field..pointing to LP effects or something else.

[manbearpig]

Discussion in another thread about hoping for a character based episode makes me want to see the show do something along the lines of Buffy's Conversations with Dead People. But, y'know, without the dead people, since we've had more than enough resurrections on this show. I think it would be a fun episode, and it would be nice to see three or four of the characters separated for an episode and interacting with different people. You could have Felicity hashing out her issues with her dad, Laurel lawyering with someone connected to next season's storyline, Oliver and Diggle doing stuff...

 

Also hoping Oliver and Felicity somehow end up in Vegas in the season premiere so I can get more interaction between the Smoak ladies.

[jay741982]

I'm good with innuendos as long as it doesn't lead to her babbling about her and Oliver's sex life like what happened when she went to CC with Ray. 

 

But that made me choke on my water, so well done writers :p 

 

Oh god I hope Felicity isn't clingy when they get back from their vacation.

I don't think she will be it sounds like she said that line cause SHE comes along with him.

[strikera0]

What other spin-off is in the works?

 

I guess this is the new spin-off Canadagraphs was hinting at:

 

Hawkgirl - TV Series in Development at The CW

 

SpoilerTV has learned that The CW is planning a separate Hawkgirl TV series starring Ciara Renée. The project is currently in very early stages of development. If The CW decides to move forward with it, it will most likely bypass the pilot stage and get a straight to series order.

 

It is unclear if the series will be set before or after the events of The CW's upcoming TV series Legends of Tomorrow, which also stars Ciara Renée.

 

Source

 

Edited June 21, 2015 by strikera0

[apinknightmare]

I feel bad saying this, because I want more female-led television shows and feel like it's a great step especially in the superhero genre, but ENOUGH ALREADY.

[foreverevolving]

I feel bad saying this, because I want more female-led television shows and feel like it's a great step especially in the superhero genre, but ENOUGH ALREADY.

I think i'll be okay with it if another network picked it up and not the CW.

[apinknightmare]

I think i'll be okay with it if another network picked it up and not the CW.

 

I mean, it's awesome. A superhero show with a POC female lead? I'm totally for it, but the more shows they put into this universe the less I look forward to watching any of them. It's too much.

[tarotx]

So Sara will be the only Female on LOT if it goes into a season 2? Maybe they will move Laurel there?

Hawkgirl looks expensive to make for LOT let alone as a series focus lead.

I'd be more for a Hawkgirl show if it wasn't connected. Too many in Flarrow universe shows.

Though the idea of a powerful POC female lead is awesone so I can see the appeal.

[wonderwall]

Is it wrong that I don't care if there is a hawkgirl show? Because then they can probably ship Laurel off to that show and I can watch Arrow in peace. But then again, I may love Hawkgirl in LoT and won't want Laurel to ruin that... Hmmm

[tarotx]

Yeah maybe they are really going to do a Birds of a prey show that was rumored and they are just calling it Hawkgirl for now because of Laurel or Lance sister spoilers.

[Starfish35]

I do not want Laurel moving to LoT. That's a huge fat hell no from me. LoT is Sara's show - let it stay that way. If the Hawkgirl spinoff happens, replace her with another female character, but not Laurel.

BoP instead of Hawkgirl? I'm not sure how I feel about that one.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

Maybe it's because Birds of Prey is basically my favorite comic book ever, but the idea of a Laurel lead BoP just makes me wanna lie in bed and cry for humanity.

Also, they need an Oracle, even if it's not Babs. The whole idea behind BoP is Babs', not Dinah's. It's Babs' baby. A team of ladies is legit my dream for a tv show, but they can't all be the muscle, because what happens then is we follow on the same dumb steps Arrow does, because everyone's narrative role is the same. They need an Oracle, and it's not gonna be Felicity, and no Oracle, no BoP.

Edited June 21, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Lokiberry]

I find it amusing that right after KC talked up a BoP spin off, the CW starts leaking info about another spin off starring an actress who's only had about 2 seconds of screen time on the Flash. Of course, it is possible that this show will turn out to be BoP with Hawkgirl, BC, and a player to be named later, but it's still interesting that the early noise is about HG and not BC.

[Starfish35]

When did KC talk about a BoP spinoff? Was that something she said at this most recent con?

Edited June 21, 2015 by Starfish35

[Proteus]

I don't think the CW leaked anything. And I find it very hard to believe that there will be another Arrow spin off already.

[Lokiberry]

In that streaming panel that she did, she apparently expressed interest in a BoP spin off. Nothing wrong with that, of course, what with practically everybody who slaps on a mask getting their own show these days.

[SmallScreenDiva]

There's no real indication of this. This is just an overreaction to Barrowman's tease about Canary sisters. This is just me giving in to a moment of panic. I'll be fine after I let this rant out: Good God, please don't let even parts of Arrow S4 turn into the Super Laurel and Sara Show. If anything will make drop the show, it will be those two.

[BkWurm1]

Here's a question, if a Super Laurel and a Super Sara show was made, would you watch it?  I LOVE Sara.  I can't say I wouldn't watch it if they were getting equal billing.  That said, I will NOT be happy if the first half of season 4 turns into the SL and SS show.  Nope. Arrow needs to be told from Oliver's perspective. 

 

I still want big Diggle HIVE stories and meaty stuff about Felicity's father, but I want Oliver right there with both of them as this stuff is happening.   I don't want either story isolated from what Oliver is doing and I can't imagine how they'd fit Oliver into the tale of two sisters when he should never ever ever come between them again in ANY way. 

[Lokiberry]

Here's a question, if a Super Laurel and a Super Sara show was made, would you watch it?  I LOVE Sara.  I can't say I wouldn't watch it if they were getting equal billing.  That said, I will NOT be happy if the first half of season 4 turns into the SL and SS show.  Nope. Arrow needs to be told from Oliver's perspective. 

Short answer: yes. Long answer: I'm tired of watching shows where I really dislike one of the characters. It's just exhausting. I love Sara so much that I might start watching Arrow again, at least through her resurrection arc; but, I much, much prefer that she be separated from Laurel and allowed to do her own thing, without what I fear would be producer interference that would hold her back so she wouldn't overshadow their favorite.

 

They had to kill Sara really dead to stuff Laurel into the BC identity. I fear what they might do to keep her there once Sara's alive again.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Lokiberry

[frenchtoast]

Just a reminder, there is a Legends of Tomorrow forum area with lots of different topics, including speculation. A little bit of talk is ok here, but once it starts getting to only about LOT, be sure to head on over and discuss there.

 

Thanks!

[DrSpaceman10]

My fear is that there's not enough time in Season Four to do individuals arcs for Diggle and Felicity and do a Sara resurrection arc. Diggle/Felicity have been waiting three years to get their own arcs. Arrow is Diggle/Felicity's only place they can have an arc whereas Sara will also have LoT. Not to mention that Sara kind of already had a resurrection arc on Arrow in Season 2, with a large portion of the season devoted to various characters' reactions to her coming back to life.

I really hope that Diggle/Felicity's stories aren't pushed off again and that their arcs get the time/attention that they deserve.

Edited June 22, 2015 by DrSpaceman10

[wingster55]

I can't imagine Sara getting resurrected on Arrow won't be a big deal...for Oliver, Malcolm, Laurel and Thea. I want Diggle to get a multi-ep arc...but it could happen slowly in the first and second halves, only in the second half or only in the first alongside the necessary Lance storyline. 

 

As for a Hawkgirl show? All for it, but I would think that depends on the reaction to her. 

Edited June 22, 2015 by wingster55

[BkWurm1]

From Behind the Mask:

 

Yeah I can't see Diggle/Felicity as well as Malcolm/Canary sisters getting their own storylines without having the season be so disjointed and full. nope. The Canary sisters individually have had enough focus on this show. I don't want Diggle or Felicity's individual arcs get the shaft because the show runners have a hard on for the Canary sisters.

 

No, I agree.  Arrow can't fit a full Diggle HIVE story or a Felicity father story and also give decent attention to Malcolm slash Thea slash Canary sisters  but it can probably tease the Diggle and Felicity stuff in 4a and then deal with it in 4b.  The basic truth is with LoT coming mid season, Arrow AND Flash is going to give setting up those storylines a priority OVER anything else on Arrow.  

 

This is my current guess at the breakdown of 4A:

 

Episode one:  Stuff Happens.  Oliver comes home.  Basically a  "where are they now" kind of character check in and reset to normal.  If Malcolm or anything about Sara is in it, it will only be the very end.  Ray probably will be "dead" in this episode, a passing reference but that's it. 

 

Oh, how about everyone at The Diggle's celebrating Baby Sara's birthday and then a quick cut to Sara rising out of the LP?  

 

Episode two through four: 

 

Felicity will probably find out about owning Palmer Tech in two and then later something will happen to hint that maybe Ray's accident wasn't what it seemed but I doubt he'll be officially back immediately.  Maybe a pre recorded message or tape of the accident but not present day stuff (unless it is him trying not to get stepped on).  Actual alive Ray, no sooner than end of four.

 

Oliver in the meantime will be working on his relationship with Diggle who at some point is going to get drawn into something about HIVE that leads back to his brother and HIVE will lead to Dahrk.  Bonus if Diggle and Oliver work to repair their relationship WHILE investigating Andy's death.

 

Also at the same time Oliver will be adjusting to Laurel and Thea out in the field.  I am pre-cringing at some things but looking forward to most of the Thea and Oliver stuff.  Just hammering out the new normal in the new head quarters will take up some time. I expect some initial throwaway bad guys for them to go after so we can see the new normal in action.

 

I expect in this group of episodes we will also check in with Malcolm and hopefully Nyssa and if Sara hasn't already been brought back in the last ten seconds of the season opener we will see her awaken in the LP.

 

In Episodes five to seven:  Ray is back - he's going to need time to rebuild his suit.  Sara comes back but will she be herself right away and who will know?.  Laurel probably gets a centric episode, maybe it will be a Lance family episode.  Maybe we'll get a visit from Donna, something to help set up something more about Felicity's dad and hopefully something just hilarious with her and Oliver interacting.  Hey, they promised a lighter season. 

 

I also really want another "family" dinner at Diggle's but if they did do a birthday thing for Sara, then I kind of feel like that would be it for the group, but maybe if it takes a while for Oliver and Dig to make up we might get a couples dinner date once they do?  (Sure, why not reach for the starts?) 

 

 More basically this is the episode run that will have stuff working to set up the winter finale AND plant more seeds about the back half of the series.  Maybe a filler episode if they are dumb (*and they often are)  If Diggle's arc is done right, then something more should happen with him in one of these episodes but it wouldn't surprise me if he only gets an early nod and then the show concentrates on WC, Atom, and stuff that would lead into LoT.  

 

Episode eight:  Crossover with Flash.  I could be totally wrong about the timing but I thought I read something that indicated they were going to do it around the same time as last year.  If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised if most of the episode content is not related to the other ongoing storylines. 

 

Episode nine:  winter finale -  a touch more stuff about DD but also stuff to feed right into LoT.  HIVE might come up but LoT is going to trump setting up 4B.   

 

As it is I know lots more will happen in the first half of the season and already it feels full.  I expect a visit from Roy.  Some kind of character from Flash showing up.  We need to figure out the Quentin agenda.  Lyla taking over Argus. Hints about Dahmien Dahrk but also probably something about Vandal Savage.  All that on top of setting up Ray and Sara's resurrections and transitions to the other show and dealing with the new Oliver Queen.  It's already packed.