Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[TanyaKay]

I'm not Ray Palmer's biggest fan but I wouldn't wish him on Laurel.  She's pretty much the most selfish person on Arrow, including Moira and Malcolm and Ray, while creepy at times, is kind and generous. Who else would give Felicity that much time off when she's just starting her job?

 

Selfish people need to marry other selfish people; it keeps them in check.  With a generous person, they just ride rough shod over them and end up making both parties miserable, one because he's always trying to please a person who can never be completely pleased, and the other because her affection eventually turns to contempt.  I've seen it happen too often.

 

I agree, I wouldn't wish Laurel on anyone on the show right now. Ray, despite being crazy eyes, is far too nice and well mannered for her. She lies, black mails and twists arms of witnesses while they are lying on hospital beds.The only suitable match for Laurel on the show was Sebastian Blood who was a lying manipulative person like Laurel and had some serious issues with his family members like Laurel had with hers. In the end, even he turned out to be far more heroic than Buckle Canary so I guess even he was too good for her.

[looptab]

Question: the "mistery" surrounding Felicity's father, was that hinted at by the EPs and then the fandom started speculating about it, or viceversa the fans started the wild speculation and the writers decided to go for it? I mean, is there a specific reason why  it is  assumed he has to be some kind of important figure (be it a vilain or a hero), beside the fact that we knew so little about Felicity for so long?

[BkWurm1]

Hmm, good question.  The showrunners haven't said a lot but at one time they said they knew who her father was so that seems to hint at more than Joe Average, but the speculation has been rampant. 

[looptab]

Oh, okay. Thanks :) I could only recall various interviews were they said they were going to touch on the matter in a vague future, always hinting that it would be a big storyline, and I found it curious that there wasn't such interest in, say, Roy's parents. But maybe that's because there is not much interest in Roy, period. :)

[Sunshine]

I think one of the reasons the speculation ran rampant is because Donna is so normal/average.  A lot of it is just people hoping so she will have bigger ties to the DC Universe.  A lot of this occurred after 2.13 before they announced Felicity would be added to the New52.  The EPs did say somewhere around the time mom was cast that they wouldn't put them on at the same time because one would overshadow the other.  I loved Donna but I think they meant dad. 

[BkWurm1]

One of my more current favorite specs as to Daddy Dearest role is it being Marin Stein (Victor Garber) as one half of Firestorm.  Yeah, it's a Flash character but it wouldn't have to be explored on the Flash side of things and it would be Victor frickin' Garber not to mention is would tie into Felicity's original origin as a supporting Firestorm character and did I mention Victor frickin' Garber?  The man can act so I know their scenes would be awesome. 

Edited January 14, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Carrie Ann]

Victor Garber is 95% of the reason I'd love it to be Martin Stein. (The other 5% is that it would be cool if there were additional ties to The Flash.) I love Donna Smoak so much, I want Felicity's dad to have equal weight. I don't have to love the character, but I want him to have an impact, to add depth and heft, and there's no one better than Victor Garber. (Oh God, especially when he's playing Dad to a daughter who doesn't trust him...! And he has to rebuild that trust and sometimes his chin quivers a bit with the withheld tears! And he'll do all sorts of shady things as long as it means she's safe, even if it threatens their relationship! OK, I just really need it to be Victor Garber now.)

[Starfish35]

I'd love it to be Martin Stein as well. There's a question I'd like to ask MG, if I had a Tumblr acct. :)

[statsgirl]

Greg Berlanti loves Victor Garber, so maybe it will be him.  I think  he'd be a great contrast to Charlotte Ross (he'd provide Felicity's brains and Donna her heart and lack of a filter.  They would also think it clever to tie this Felicity Smoak to the comics Raymonds.

[WaitandHope]

I love that people are revisiting this random spec of mine from last week! Yay! I feel part of the group. Stein is also Jewish, so there's that. And it certainly ties Felicity to Caitlin. And in real life, it would tie the Amell cousins to each show in a way - though I'm still very confused if anyone ever sees the Stein part of Firestorm or if he's just inside the brain. I don't really know how Firestorm works with the two personas. Would Robbie Amell be Felicity's dad too? It's mind-bendy. I guess we will see pretty soon on The Flash, but now that this idea has been bandied about, I'm all worked up for it. Mostly because - as you all stated- Garber is the best!

The other patronage spec I would consider worthy of Felicity is something tied to Batman world (b/c of the Oracle tease by the EPs) - like somehow she's another Gordon daughter but I don't think that's really possible given the DC lockdown on Batman world. And Guggenheim said at comicon that -yes- they know who her father is. And I'm not on twitter, but didn't he say just today that maybe they would drop another Felcity's father hint this year. That's so vague and noncommittal (not to mention hearsay) that I think this is spec rather than spoiler and can be placed here.

[BkWurm1]

I read the wiki page about Firestorm and  Ronnie and Stein are separate people most of the time but when they form Firestorm ( don't know how that works) at least initially Martin would experience lost time and blackouts while Ronnie remained aware and in control.  Martin Stein's wisdom would be accessible though.  Later iterations changes things up, with him being aware and I guess that was part of the fun of the comic, the inner snarking going on between the two minds of Firestorm. 

[tv echo]

In the Media thread, Morrigan2575 posted a youtube clip of Lego Felicity's game moves in the new Arrow DLC (which looks hilariosu)...

 

I would love it if Felicity invented or acquired a cloaking device that allowed her to turn invisible.  I'm sure they could come up with a psuedo-scientific explanation, if they wanted to.

[Starfish35]

Sadly it looks like MG has denied the "Martin Stein is Felicity's father" theory. :(

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/108167093734/is-martin-stein-felicitys-father

[Carrie Ann]

Booooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[looptab]

From the spoilers thread, a not really spoilery consideration:

 

Of course, it will be viewed as the masculine oppresion of the female member of the group... Sigh. And the critisism will be focused on how BC is being deemed unworthy of vigilantism because she's a woman - which is as far away from the truth as we are from the Sun.

Part of me believes they're counting on this, to be honest. On how, no matter how non-sensical

Laurel's transformation in BC

has been and will be, they'll cover their asses because in their mind they're telling the story of a strong woman,  who fights and overcomes the obstacles in her way (namely her long-time friend who's just trying to avoid her being killed).
There will be people who'll support Laurel just because she's a woman and has the same right as anyone else to suit up and go fight crime, and it won't matter if it makes absolutely no sense with regard to the story they've been telling up until now. Something like this has already been out there after episode 6, for example: "Oliver is a controlling douche, let her do her thing, blah blah blah". Don't get me wrong, he very often is, but I can't disagree with him on this.
People making these considerations should a) be very well informed about what they're saying, and b)watch the show. Oliver had no problem with Helena or Sara fighting with him, and presented Roy  the same objections he presented Laurel. It's not a matter of "you're not a man so you can't do this", but rather of "you're not trained so you can't do this" (which he explicitely said).
If Laurel were to have a more solid background to her fighting skills, please, be my guest and go kick ass. But she doesn't. So apparently expressing my disappointment in what I deem a BS storyline will get me labeled a misogynist. Hey, maybe I am one, what do I know.   :/

 

Edit: because if I try to make a point in my rant I should at least learn the proper spelling of the word :D

Edited January 16, 2015 by looptab

[KirkB]

Controlling douche that he is (and there is no denying this) Oliver has never had a problem with strong women. He was raised by one. Once he got his hood on he had all the respect in the world for China White. He didn't want Helena involved not because she was a woman but because her mindset would get her killed, and he agreed to train her so she could have a chance of surviving since she wasn't going to stop no matter what. He certainly had no issues fighting alongside Sara or even Nyssa. He wouldn't let Roy go out until he (Oliver) felt he was ready. Strictly speaking I don't think Oliver wants ANYONE he cares about to be out on the streets fighting because he knows how dangerous it is and it's his responsibility, not theirs, but until they can prove themselves worthy to him the fact they are women is not going to be a point of concern for him.

Edited January 16, 2015 by KirkB

[AyChihuahua]

I'm a militant feminist, and Oliver has not been (post-Island) at all presented as being misogynist.  He LOVES strong women, and certainly seems to think of them as his equals (including Felicity).  He doesn't want Laurel to fight because (1) she has zero skills; and (2) she's supposedly doing it for Sara, but they all know Sara would hate it.  Not to mention, he's pretty controlling of everyone, including Diggle and Roy (and Tommy back in the day), not just women.  He actively invited Sara to fight with him, as early as the Mayor.  

[Happy Harpy]

From the supporting characters thread, answering here because it's imo more about the storylines and the general evolution/future of the show.

 

MG and AK said that Berlanti is always telling them "Why save that story for later?  Do it now!" so I guess he's the one to blame.

It's interesting, because for me there are certain storylines that I think they should do immediately, and they don't. But for me, "immediately" can mean two things.

 

There's "immediately", as in because now is the right timing within the show, and only exterior considerations would push to postpone those storylines.

Of course, it means "no stalling", a.k.a Oliver/Felicity should be a couple right now because etc, you know the drill :)

But even more importantly, I think that the storylines built around Diggle and Felicity should already be well underway, and onscreen, now. Yet IIRC, HIVE was mentioned for the last time in S2-A (!).

D/F are arguably the central characters after Oliver, the "second circle" if you want, so along with Thea (but I kind of gave up on the hope that she'll  truly count, one day) it's in their direction that the expansion of the show should naturally go imo. It wouldn't derivate too far away from Oliver.

But I feel that those stories are being dangled and kept for later, imo because Diggle and Felicity are well-liked and TPTB are sure that many will tune in for them. I understand where they come from. Nevertheless, I wonder whether it's a good long-term strategy.

I'm afraid that saving some stories for later is why the expansion of the Arrow universe expresses in characters not as linked to Oliver and/or not integrated to the show as well as his teammates. Imo, the evolution of the show should have storylines ripple in circles around Oliver, its center. This season seems to be shaping up with foreign streams cutting through the ripples and I think that the general narrative suffers from it.

 

 

Now, if "immediately" means "rush it" and all kinds of insta-something, I obviously think that they shouldn't. Imo, the writers want to go too fast at times, whereas certain storylines and character development can't be done overnight imo. Sometimes, make it or break it works. Sometimes. And I know that Arrow was always fast-paced, which has its demands plot-wise. But again, I'm not sure that rushing is the best for the show and the characters on the long term.

It's good to provide a push sometimes, to propel a character on the frontburner, and of course the role of writers is first and foremost to propose things to the viewers, but at times it isn't bad when they let the viewers ask instead.

I'm not against newbies on the principle, of course new blood is needed, but I feel that doing the "older" characters storylines first would give time to everyone. The newbies would have more time to integrate the show, instead of being imo plopped in the middle of it without rhyme of reason at times. The writers would have more time to know which possible recurring works with the audience -or time to adjust if their first approach to a character they truly want on the show doesn't work, before the audience gets tired of seeing them front and center. The viewers would have more time to get to know and come to care about those new characters. Insta-hits like Felicity are imo a rare occurence, and even with her the writers took their time. Viewers will complain, but I feel that it's better when they complain because they want more, than when they complain because they have (more than) enough. Is "positive complaining" making sense, LOL?

And indeed, I think the writers did that more in S1 and S2-A (Roy, Sara in S2A). If they did it again, it would be great.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[KirkB]

It occurs to me, can Laurel as Black Canary really make things worse? There are three perspectives involved. People who already like Laurel. People who are ambivalent toward Laurel. People who hate Laurel. Those who already hate her can't really hate her any more than they already do. Hate may have degrees but it's still hate. Those who like her certainly aren't going to stop because she has achieved her comics! destiny and now has something to do. And those of us who don't care, still won't.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I would say that the Laurel hatred can certainly hurt the show ratings-wise because once you reach a certain level of anger at this one character who is ruining the entire show for you, you just stop punishing yourself by continuing to watch.  And we've seen that happen with some viewers on this very forum.  They've just said 'enough' and turned off their TVs.

[statsgirl]

I have a friend who did stop watching the show this season because she couldn't take Laurel any more.

 

But generally, I think it's more complex than that.  If you love everything on the show but one thing, you're still going to tune in for everything that you love. But if the rest of the show is weaker and not giving you what you watch for (as for many of us it was during 2B when Diggle and Felicity became sidelined and OOC and it seemed everything was about Slade and the Lance Family Drama), then hating one character can tip you over the edge into giving up on it.

 

 

But again, I'm not sure that rushing is the best for the show and the characters on the long term.

Certainly not at the cost of character development, which is what many of us watch the show for.  Arrow has a great stunt team, but between all the superhero and action shows and movies, I'm getting bored with the stunts.  I watched RED2 over the holidays and Helen Mirren as a badass assassin who just takes out her guns and coolly shoots with both hands while tossing out quips was such a relief.

Edited January 21, 2015 by statsgirl

[Trini]

Just a reminder to avoid the 'previouslies' if your like me and can't stand to see Oliver get stabbed over and over. But I do want to see if they change the intro since Oliver is 'dead'.

[BunsenBurner]

My hope is that some how some way Sara is not dead dead and will make her return in real time because we need her.

Edited January 21, 2015 by BunsenBurner

[apinknightmare]

I have a friend who did stop watching the show this season because she couldn't take Laurel any more.

 

But generally, I think it's more complex than that.  If you love everything on the show but one thing, you're still going to tune in for everything that you love. But if the rest of the show is weaker and not giving you what you watch for (as for many of us it was during 2B when Diggle and Felicity became sidelined and OOC and it seemed everything was about Slade and the Lance Family Drama), then hating one character can tip you over the edge into giving up on it.

 

Yeah, I think the reason people stop watching is complex. There's nothing wrong with stopping if you just hate one character. I don't care one iota about Laurel, I mentally disengage almost every time she's on my screen, but I wouldn't stop watching just because of her unless she started getting significantly more airtime out of this trilogy or (like I've written before a ton) if she and Oliver get back together. 

 

I'm frustrated with the show right now. I don't think a lot of things they've done so far make sense, I don't like the way a lot of the arcs seem to be going, but I'm not ready to quit yet. I'm not as excited to watch it and I don't recommend it to friends anymore, but I watch it myself and am still entertained by it. Once that stops being the case, I'll tune out for good (and probably be kind of sad about it for a bit). Hopefully things start turning around soon.

[statsgirl]

I'm wary because of 2B. I know they pulled it together for the 3 episode finale and some random things made sense now, but there's still enough that they blew (Laurel's addiction arc sucked up a lot of airtime and still didn't justify her becoming a vigilante as much as taking arms after Tommy's death would have done), that I don't have the faith in the show overall that I did a year ago.  Add to that the fact that AK and Berlanti are busy on other shows, the misstep at TCA, and their apparent fascination with their shiny new costumed superheroes, and the amount of slack I'm willing to cut the show overall got a whole lot shorter this season.

 

ETA:  The killing off of Moira and Sara, two complex characters with lots more potential storylines played by good actresses, in order to make Laurel the new Black Canary (with matching lipstick and nail polish) just seems to me stupidity beyond excuse.  I'll see  how Laurel does the rest of the season, but I'm shaking my head at it.

Edited January 22, 2015 by statsgirl

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think level of investment also plays a part in whether somebody drops a show. I have friends who I convinced to try "Arrow" last season and they LOVED the first 9 episodes. Couldn't wait for more, especially with that speech Slade made at the of 2x09. They were disappointed with Blast Radius and Blind Spot (who wasn't?) but stuck around until the Super Sara Show/Lance Family Drama combo pushed them away. They dropped the show and never looked back. Those were about 2 dozen people Arrow lost and gained within 18 episodes. I've watched since the beginning (although I let the show piled up and did the first 5 eps in a marathon) so there's a part of me that goes "well, just see what happens next, you've stuck around this long" whenever I start getting pissed off with the show.

 

Anyway, I'm not too excited with the 4-part Canary arc but I'm hoping there's enough Diggle and Felicity to sustain me until Oliver's return. I was already excited about 3x18

because of Mama Smoak's return, but now I'm even more :)

Edited January 22, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[tv echo]

I don't think the EPs want Oliver to be in a committed relationship for two reasons: (1) they don't know how to write a good couple relationship;  and (2) they're geek guys at heart and want Oliver to be free to hook up with the next sexy DC comics character they can get permission to introduce on the show. 

 

Part of me is okay with them delaying Oliver and Felicity's getting together - as long as they do eventually get together.  The EPs expect the show to run a long time.  If they hook up Oliver and Felicity too soon, then they'll just break them up again with some contrived plot device.  I just wish I trusted them more to do a good job with Oliver and Felicity as a couple.

Edited January 22, 2015 by tv echo

[jay741982]

Don't they only have a five year plan though? Plus it's insane with all the buzz around Olicity and the smoldering hot like fire Chemistry between SA and EBR to not put them together

[calliope1975]

Don't they only have a five year plan though? Plus it's insane with all the buzz around Olicity and the smoldering hot like fire Chemistry between SA and EBR to not put them together

 

Don't get me wrong, I totally want Oliver and Felicity to get together and have a stable, long-term relationship, but Supernatural had a 5 year plan, too, and that show just won't die.

 

These writers aren't good enough to not eventually throw in some contrived drama to break up Olicity at which point I will hopefully, finally, rage quit the show. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

We were talking about "Everwood" in the Quiver thread and I was reminded of my initial reaction when "Arrow" announced Ray Palmer. Somebody, one of the EPs, I think, likened Ray to Scott Wolf's character on "Everwood." A game changer, they said (another of the EPs favorite words, that and epic). Scott's character wooed Nina, Andy's kinda love interest. Scott Wolf stayed in "Everwood" for 2 seasons. With the news they're considering a spinoff for ATOM, I now think Ray Palmer is sticking around a lot longer than I thought/hoped. I mean, they probably want to keep him on the show, right? And if he's around, does that mean he will continue to be an obstacle to Olicity? And does that mean Oliver and Felicity won't resolve their issues by the end of this season as a lot of fans seem to think might happen?

[BkWurm1]

I now think Ray Palmer is sticking around a lot longer than I thought/hoped. I mean, they probably want to keep him on the show, right? And if he's around, does that mean he will continue to be an obstacle to Olicity? And does that mean Oliver and Felicity won't resolve their issues by the end of this season as a lot of fans seem to think might happen?

 

I think there is a scenario were Ray sticks around for reasons that have nothing to do with Felicity, in fact I've been expecting that he'd be around at least for the next half of the 4th season.  (Sporadically) 

Edited January 24, 2015 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

I don't think the EPs want Oliver to be in a committed relationship for two reasons: (1) they don't know how to write a good couple relationship;  and (2) they're geek guys at heart and want Oliver to be free to hook up with the next sexy DC comics character they can get permission to introduce on the show. 

 

Part of me is okay with them delaying Oliver and Felicity's getting together - as long as they do eventually get together.  The EPs expect the show to run a long time.  If they hook up Oliver and Felicity too soon, then they'll just break them up again with some contrived plot device.  I just wish I trusted them more to do a good job with Oliver and Felicity as a couple.

The problem is, I don't really know if they can back track at this point and make Oliver some wild & crazy guy that hooks up with all these random new characters. It just seems like they moved him too far along in his hero journey. That would almost be reverting back to old Ollie. But then again, from what I heard of the comic the billionaire playboy was part of his cover, so maybe I can see it working?  :/ Only way they might be able to do it, if somehow his mind is altered through some villain or healing process, but they how long can those influences really last? Also regardless of how, they'd have to do something pretty big w/ Felicity's character to counterbalance her wanting to still work with him, esp if they do pursue a relationship even for a small portion of a season. Don't think, nor do I want to see Felicity sticking around to watch her Ex as he sleeps his way thru SC & DC universe.

 

As much as I don't necessarily trust the writers to have successful attempts at writing good coupledom scripts, I also dont think that would  be able to write successful plot contrivances that keep them in a will they/wont they get together/get back together again. ER was able to do it with Doug & Carol, but thats a medical drama, lot more places in script for them to be part of a story but not together. Arrow only has the foundry & PI/QC. Plus even in ER, you knew it was only a matter of time before they got back together. JM & GC chemistry/connection was off the charts, similar to EBR & SA. Even as a pre-teen, I would watch episodes here & there and wonder why they weren't together. ER had more options to make it work. I doubt Arrow could do it, without becoming a melodramatic CW show that would pull the show down. People turn in for the action & the drama, not the soap opera. But when desperate, my gut tells me that if LL/BC goes over well and they are coming up dry on melodrama they could venture another attempt @ Lauliver now that they are working so closely together. I just think it would deflate the fanbase, to have the show take another dip in melodramatic relationship plots, triangles, etc, it really sucker punched the show the first time.

 

Aren't there more male hero/villains in the DC universe? Perhaps they could have LL/BC be the one the romantically entangles with them. That might be an interesting gender role reversal that might go over well, so long as they don't revert to easy pitfalls of making her too slutty. It would give her character someone to interact with & help with plot development. KC did have chemistry with a lot of the male guest actors they had her involved with like the ADA (Paul from Orphan Black, called him Paul every time he came on) & Brother Blood. Truly I thought she was her best when she was interacting w/ Tommy, but I dont think we'll ever get him back :( Depending on what they do with Thea, Roy could also be fair game for some guest star loving. Heck anyone on the cast expect for Oliver, Felicity, Diggle & Lyla. Basically original Team Arrow should be off the guest star loving train.

 

My wish is that Olicity gets together and stays together. My hope is that if the writers need to cause some drama for the plot, they make it believable & realistic. Life & relationships are not easy no matter how much you love someone. Surely, there is enough to draw from that drama pool to sustain their need. Put them in a mature relationship that actually deals with the issues through communication & perseverance.

Edited January 24, 2015 by kismet

[tv echo]

It would be nice if Oliver and Felicity got together and stayed together, but I'm skeptical about the EPs going that route.  If Oliver is finally willing to get involved with Felicity, but Felicity rejects him for whatever contrived reason and she moves on to Ray or whoever, then I can see Oliver getting involved with other women next season - even if it's just temporary hook-ups.  They can draw it out with lots of hints and touches that O & F still have feelings for each other that they've suppressed, even while involved with other people, and those other relationships never work out obviously, etc.  I wouldn't even be surprised if next season they have Oliver trying to make something work with his baby mama for the sake of his son, have Oliver trying for a normal life and being a daddy like Diggle, but having that relationship fail.  Just speculating on ways the EPs could keep O & F apart.

 

I mean, look at The Flash, Barry loves Iris, but Iris is with Eddie - yet is anyone going to fault Barry if Barry moves on and gets involved with another woman?

Edited January 24, 2015 by tv echo

[romantic idiot]

I wouldn't, but that's because Iris is boring (or at least I found her boring). They need a decent LI for Barry who is not Iris or Caitlin. On the other hand, it is also great that Iris is not white...so I'm torn. I think the problem is that Oliver's player days are over and so it shouldn't be a random hook up for him. And if he can be with someone else, he can be with Felicity since the obstacle to Olicity is in his head. 

[Password]

It's funny I thought Oliver's player days were over when he got back to Starling the first time. Yes he got together with ALL the wrong people, but he had relationships and one one night stand. I shudder to defend his...ways, but that is not Playboy billionaire. Also all the women dumped him. He must be an awful boyfriend.

I don't know if Olicity will get together this season, but Arrow chews through story like it's a bowl of Cheerios. Quickly. Things could happen very quickly in the last 5 episodes, so if they try to bring season 3 full circle, Felicity and Oliver would be some variation of the season 3 premiere.

I would love that to happen but right now I'm far more keen to SEE how it plays out.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Limbo

[kismet]

I love Barry and Iris does not bother me. But I cannot see them actually together. Their chemistry is very BF, Bro/Sis. I can believe they love each other, but it does not appear romantic. The only time Iris ever seems interested is when he is the Flash. And I think Barry wants to be romantically loved for being more than just the Flash. Plus I think its another scenario where the writers are telling us, we have to believe this Epic couple because they say so, but unfortunately forget to show us. I think they need to bring a LI in for Barry. Because honestly, there is no romantic sparks on that show for GG, which is shame.

 

But I digress, I too am interested in seeing how it all plays out between O&F. We can speculate all we want but in the end its how successful they are from getting from A to B. I think they have some interesting things up their sleeves. I will always believe that I think they rushed the date and stepped too far on the gas pedal for Olicity, which I think was to drum up digital comic sales (which is annoying). I really believed that they would have sat on the ILY being real or rouse. In my head, it seemed like that would have been part of the winter finale. But they seemed to want to get it out of the way. I guess to make room for the big Sara reveal, which is still sad that is the direction they chose with her character. So clearly, Im not familiar with their slow burn techniques. But since that torpedoed attempt at them as a couple, I do believe that they have handled the relationship in a believable way. So my fingers-crossed they will maintain that. I also am beginning to not take the spoilers or MGs tumblr to seriously because I think most of that is trying to build buzz. I also have a feeling a lot of the power the couple has comes from SA & EBR, as well as some of the other actors responses, so there is the potential to have the relationship be non-existent in the plot/show but still be present in the minds of viewers. Personally, I don't think SA wants his character to be romantically involved with tons of partners, so if he has any say in his character - I don't think we'll see a quick return to him having a revolving door of LI.

[statsgirl]

One of the reviewers, I think it was Robert Doughtery at TMN, said that Oliver didn't choose  celibacy this season, he chose monogamy.  He's just not together with her at the moment.

 

I think (hope) Oliver's player days are over because there's more drama to be mined if that's the case.  I just don't trust the EPs not to think that monogamy is boring and start Oliver playing again. That's been the TV trope for a long time and it's only now that it's starting to change.

[Hook75]

My guess is Thea is going to kill her Daddy after she finds out what he had her do or as a way to save Oliver.

[KirkB]

If they decide to get rid of Malcolm (and Barrowman) with no chance of bringing him back then yes, I imagine it will be Thea who does the deed. And Malcolm will die with a smile on his face because he will be so proud of his little girl.

[Trini]

Glad Oliver is alive, but how is this supposed to play out with Ras Al Ghul? He's still marked for death, right? I'm thinkiing that Ras won't go through the whole process again since Olive managed to survive it. However he's going to have to let Merlyn get what coming to him. But then that raises the question of 'Will Merlyn sell out his own daughter to save his skin?' I want to say 'no', only because he was already in trouble with the League anyway.

[apinknightmare]

If they decide to get rid of Malcolm (and Barrowman) with no chance of bringing him back then yes, I imagine it will be Thea who does the deed. And Malcolm will die with a smile on his face because he will be so proud of his little girl.

 

This is the kind of messed-up I can get behind.

[Ariah]

Speculation:

Perhaps Maseo became Sarab to get closer to a mysterious cure for all illnesses including death, because Akio got killed by ARGUS. In the end it turned out the cure (used by Ra's himself quite frequently) could only bring back recently dead people, and Akio has been dead for a year or so. Thus, Maseo and Tatsu got the cure, but didn't get their son back. Hence the rift between them... and the extra strong penicilin.

[tv echo]

Sometimes you expect the worst in order to be prepared, but then the worst turns out to be worse than you expected.  That seems to be where this season is headed.

 

I have the ominous feeling that by the end of season 3, I'll actually be hoping that Felicity leaves Arrow and gets her own spin-off show called Felicity the Geek Girl.  Then she can leave manpainy Oliver, creepy Ray and self-involved Laurel behind - and I can drop Arrow from my watch-list.  Maybe she can take Diggle or even Roy with her, or they can just visit her at her new digs.  Better yet, she can take Thea with her (so they can stop being props for other characters) and they can form their own crime-fighting duo or PI business.  Mama Smoak can be their office manager.  Maybe Quentin can disown Laurel, resign from the Starling City police force for health reasons, and join up with them.

Edited January 29, 2015 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

*sigh* The only thing I'm hoping for (not realistically) is a Eureka-style reset after this season to fix everything that's gone wrong. Since that's probably about as likely as pigs flying, I suspect I'm out of luck however.

[BkWurm1]

*sigh* The only thing I'm hoping for (not realistically) is a Eureka-style reset after this season to fix everything that's gone wrong. Since that's probably about as likely as pigs flying, I suspect I'm out of luck however.

Well, over on The Flash Wells does seem to have some ability to know the future.  That isn't far from a trip back to the forties to redo the time line to (almost) everyone's benefit. I mean, Jo got screwed for a while big time but it got better for her.  It's a risk I'm wiling to take. 

[statsgirl]

Wells knows there are big things ahead for Felicity.  That sounds more like they're with Ray than Oliver since Ray is the tech guy who owns the company.  (Just a fear there.)

 

Didn't Eureka have short seasons?  It was hard for Jo but only for a few episodes.

[BkWurm1]

Didn't Eureka have short seasons?  It was hard for Jo but only for a few episodes.

 

I think she suffered for a couple seasons.  Honestly, going form about to be married to finding out the guy wasn't even friendly was a big blow.  That one hurt bad. 

[apinknightmare]

Wells knows there are big things ahead for Felicity. That sounds more like they're with Ray than Oliver since Ray is the tech guy who owns the company. (Just a fear there)

Not necessarily. Queen Inc. is on the front page of his magical future newspaper. When Oliver gets the company back, he'll probably keep/lobby to keep Felicity in her current position, so that could be where the big things come from.

[jay741982]

Plus Felicity could be Married to Oliver and be Watchtower/Oracle hybrid

[Actionmage]

Spec:   Tatsu said that Oliver would have to give up what he held dearest in order to  "defeat" Ra's. What if he has to send Thea to train as one of the League? Oliver would know she is alive. She'd be in one of the more (relatively) safer places in the DC-verse. She'd "just" be an assassin for Ra's.  Everybody is taking for granted that Ra's is totally unreasonable about whether an innocent was used as a pawn. In other words, taking Malcolm's word as gospel.

 

Maybe Tatsu knows about Ra's because she had to give up Maseo for backstory to be written later?