Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[SonofaBiscuit]

Ah, that's right.  Laurel Lance, official good-doer and heart of the show.  We all know that you can't survive without your heart, so it will probably be Thea going dark instead and Laurel being just plain awesome.

[statsgirl]

Their inability to let Laurel go dark, which a) makes sense given what we've seen of her so far and b) is KC's acting strength, is something I really hope they get over. With some therapy maybe? Paging Harley Quinn.

Edited June 27, 2014 by statsgirl

[KirkB]

I'm hoping Thea will come back to Starling, bad-assed up by Malcolm, and shoot Laurel. With an arrow. In the face. Okay, so she doesn't have to kill her but would a little wounding and hospital downtime be too much to ask?

 

Honestly, one of the things I am most looking forward to in season three is Thea's potential development. What I fear I will get though, is a season dominated by Laurel and Oliver's baby drama.

[Starfish35]

a season dominated by Laurel and Oliver's baby drama.

Well that's just a horrible thought.

LOL, just kidding. I know what you meant. It just struck me a different (and horrifying) way when I read it. :)

[formerlyfreedom]

This is when we appreciate the Oxford comma!

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm hoping Thea will come back to Starling, bad-assed up by Malcolm, and shoot Laurel. With an arrow. In the face. Okay, so she doesn't have to kill her but would a little wounding and hospital downtime be too much to ask?

 

 

Geez, that is dark.  I like it!  Laurel just seems so primed to go dark based on what we've seen so far: prosecuting her ex's mother in a death penalty case, maneuvering to snatch Oliver before Sara could, shooting a guy in the back, blackmailing multiple people, throwing an exploding wine glass in a fit of rage, being gleeful when her sister was returning to the LoA...I'm sure there are others I'm missing...not exactly the qualities of a good-doer.  There's some truly shady stuff going on there.

[tv echo]

If Thea shoots Laurel in the face with an arrow, then Laurel would need cosmetic surgery.... opening the way for the role to be recast with a different actress.

[tv echo]

I can't stand Laurel - for a myriad of reasons already discussed, having to do with how the character has been written and how she has been portrayed by KC.  However, I've been trying to be more open to her Season 3 possibilities by reading others' thoughts on the character.  I found this article (despite the headline, there's nothing spoilery in the article - it's all speculation; also, I've used spoiler tags to hide anything remotely spoilery):

 

Arrow spoilers: Is season 3 Laurel’s time for Black Canary transformation?
Published June 26, 2014, by Sarah J.
http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/tomorrow-arrow-season-3-laurels-time-black-canary-transformation/

Never has there been a character that divides the Arrow fans more than Laurel Lance. The lawyer and the comic book persona of the Black Canary has been very hit and miss with the shows fans.

 

It seems that Katie Cassidy herself has been harshly treated at times – even though Laurel hasn’t been the easiest of characters to warm to. On the other hand, has Cassidy really been given a lot to get her teeth into that incorporates her into the main body of the show, before the back end of season two?

 

Laurel’s task was made tougher after the reemergence of her presumed dead sister Sara at the start of the last series. A damaged character with her fair share of demons, which arose after being on the island with Oliver alongside being a member of the League of Assassians. Fans grew to love Sara and she already had the fighting ability from her time with the LoA to be the Black Canary.

 

Sara, who was referred to as ‘The Canary’ which often fuelled speculation that Laurel would eventually become the true Black Canary. This theory seemed to have weight, when in the season two finale Sara left with Nyssa to return to the League, not only did it feel as if this was Sara’s natural exit from the show (and not killed off thank goodness) but the conversation between her and Laurel seemed to be one of handing over the reigns of sorts, with the nod towards this being Sara giving Laurel her leather jacket.

 

Now the question is will season 3 be Laurel’s time to become the Black Canary? She found out about Oliver and Sara in season two and after she sought help for her drink problem – she came across as a changed person getting her job back in the process.

 

Even though it remains to be seen whether we’ll see Laurel donning the black leather anytime soon, she has the potential to be a key member of Team Arrow. Although I’d be very surprised to see Laurel fighting crime herself this season, I could certainly see her progression in season three helping Oliver and co leading to more in later episodes.

 

Laurel has proved in the past that she can certainly look after herself. She has fighting skills while not at the level of Oliver and Sara, these could be developed in upcoming episodes. I certainly have no doubt that Katie is capable of playing a great version of Black Canary, as she’s proved in the past with roles in Supernatural that she’s more than capable of tackling the bad ass characters.

 

Understandably, the more hardcore comic book fans want the show to stick to the comic book canon when it comes to the Laurel and Oliver relationship. In the comics,

there has often been the relationship between the Black Canary and Green Arrow – in some versions they were even married.

 

However, I think the writers need to establish Laurel as the Black Canary without a relationship with Oliver. It’s evident that on screen Stephen has a lot more chemistry with Emily than he does Katie. This doesn’t mean that Laurel cannot become a successful version of the character on the show though.

 

She’s sure going to have a lot to contend with in season three. Especially, after her Dad Detective Lance collapsed at the very end of the episode from his injuries caused by Slade’s mens assault on the city. It’s unlikely that the show would kill off Lance. He originally hated the Arrow, he grew to work alongside him and started to progress from the man who was hunting him to the Starling version of James Gordon – working for the safety of his city.

 

Rumours are that

Ra’s will be coming to Starling in season three, which could mean that Sara is not completely done in the show.

Even so, I think season three is the right time to explore Laurel as a character and progress her towards suiting up. At the end of the day, Black Canary is a key ally in the Arrow universe and Katie Cassidy deserves a lot better than what she’s got from the show for the majority. Laurel ended the season strongly and damn just continue giving the girl positive character progression already.

I added the spoiler tags.  While I think the writer makes some good points, I couldn't help but cringe at the statements I've bolded in the quote above.  First, although it is true that KC hasn't been incorporated a lot into Arrow's main story because she didn't know his identity until the end of season 2, KC has been given a lot of dramatic plot material that she could've used to make Laurel a more likeable, sympathetic character, but she didn't.  Second, Laurel didn't get her job back by being a changed person, she blackmailed her way back into her job.  Third, I still don't see how Laurel will add anything to Team Arrow that isn't a contrivance (kinda like her forced involvement in the team at the end of season 2).

Edited June 29, 2014 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

Or everyone on Team Arrow will be dumbed down so she could look good. That's what happened in the "Laurel" episode.

 

The EP's will tell us about the great stuff coming up for Laurel's transformation into BC and tell us we'll really start to like her and want her on the team. Which will go like this. Suddenly Felicity is not going to be able to something, but look Laurel can! See they need her to save the day. Then Oliver will thank Laurel and tell they couldn't have done it without her. 

 

KC has been given more than enough chances to sink her teeth into something and hasn't delivered. Most actors would love an addiction storyline to showcase their acting. But she gave us nothing, If the writers didn't tell me she was supposed to be an addict, I wouldn't have even noticed. So I don't see how she's going to make me care or sympathize with her in season 3 when I went from being indifferent to her in S1 to outright hating her in S2. Especially when she was responsible for the death of a character I liked in S1 and another character I liked was thrown under the bus for her this season. All I see is characters I like getting ruined for her. So I can see Diggle and Felicity being next on the make Laurel the best ever hit list. 

 

Not many people are going to buy Laurel's sudden magical transformation to badass fighter to rival Oliver but we also don't want to see Laurel front and center training and taking away from Team Arrow's screen time. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't when it comes to Laurel. I really don't understand why they gave us a BC that was an equal to Oliver and was doing her own thing (going after misogynist criminals) before joining up with Arrow which is closer to comic BC, throw that all away so they can give us a lesser version that is nothing like comic BC? To me it seems simple, you always go with what works instead of forcing something in that's just going to break it. 

[dtissagirl]

Or everyone on Team Arrow will be dumbed down so she could look good. That's what happened in the "Laurel" episode.

 

The EP's will tell us about the great stuff coming up for Laurel's transformation into BC and tell us we'll really start to like her and want her on the team. Which will go like this. Suddenly Felicity is not going to be able to something, but look Laurel can! See they need her to save the day. Then Oliver will thank Laurel and tell they couldn't have done it without her.

 

There were so many EP interviews in S2, up until the finale, even, where they said something of the "people will start liking Laurel after <event>!" sort, and really, that boggled my mind. It's the whole cognitive dissonance problem from what the writers feel about Laurel to what the audience sees when watching Laurel onscreen. Here's a character that is almost universally hated, WHY ARE YOU EVEN TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE LIKE HER? Just write her in a way that make people *love to hate her* and you're good to go! I think my biggest hope for S3 is they finally realize if they make Laurel go dark, people can start actively hating her on purpose, instead of dreading her presence on the show.

Edited June 29, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Morrigan2575]

Is that even an article? It comes across as more of a Katie Cassidy fan defending KC and Laurel. It certainly hits all of the Stans talking points.

KC can do action, just look at Ruby. - BTW has anyone gone back and watched her "fight" scenes in SPN? They're no where near the level of Arrow. Even better question, if KC is so good at fight sequences why did they clearly use a stunt woman for that S1 episode as well as BoP (i've heard, haven't verified myself).

Laurel knows martial arts and has mad skills - nope she has self defense training (same as Sara) and the only person she beat up w/o needing a rescue is the rich frat dbag who hired goons to beat up Tommy/Oliver. Even then she snuck up on the guy...she's never been shown to effectively take on a skilled opponent

Comics! - Hell, even KC pulls this one out

Not part of A Plot - neither was Thea, Roy, Sin, or Moira for most of S2 and yet their characters / actors found a way to entertain or interact in a way that made the character relevant without destroying others.

Did I miss any talking points?

Edited June 30, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

The Laurel can fight bothers me so much. NO, she can't fight. She can throw a punch which anyone can do whether they have training or not.

 

Her and Sara revived the exact same training from Quentin when they were younger and Sara because she's apparently the intelligent sister knew she was no match for skilled mercenaries. She used her brain and her words to get out of situations. Laurel being an idiot throws a punch then immediately gets taken hostage. Unless I wanted my rescuer to be tied up next to me, why would I want Laurel to be the hero? 

[doesntworkonwood]

From the Team Arrow thread

 

I agree about season 1 and back then I had no problem with it. In s2 I felt while Diggle had screentime, Felicity still had more focus in moments with Oliver.

I feel Diggle had his centric episodes to compensate for the sidelining.

Even when the season became Lance focuesd, Felicity still had her major moments with Oliver..I really haven't seen that with Diggle. In my mind he should be the more important one to Oliver...obviously not from a romantic standpoint but I've always enjoyed friendships on tv shows anyways. 

 

I understand being really worried about Diggle getting less screentime because of Oliver/Felicity. Diggle's one of my favourite characters, and I've loved him since the beginning, but I feel that just because Oliver/Felicity are a thing, doesn't automatically mean that Diggle has to be sidelined. I suppose that it really plays in how the writers right it.

 

They could amp up the drama, make the focus of storylines about Oliver/Felicity. They could write in arguments, and misunderstandings. They could choose to focus on how things, like Olivers kid, affect Oliver/Felicity.

 

Or, they could portray Oliver/Felicity as the mostly drama free relationship it is, meaning that the Team Arrow dynamic wont be changed, and Diggle will get ample screentime (because, you know, he is Oliver's best friend.)

 

I, for one, hope that they go for the second route. That way, Diggle wont be demoted and will still play an important role, in regards to the team and his friendship with Oliver. And also, by not sidelining Diggle, there will be more of a chance to explore Felicity and Diggle's friendship, which is one of my favourite parts of the show.

[tv echo]

I think Team Arrow, including Diggle, will remain important on the show.  Diggle has got his own storyline with the pregnant Lyla, has the whole Suicide Squad possibilities, and has the continued mystery with Deadshot and who ordered his brother's death.  That's more than Felicity has received in terms of independent storyline and back story.

 

I really think that they're going to use Season 3 to try to boost Laurel/KC's popularity with Arrow fans by propping up her character as part of Team Arrow and rehabbing her personality to make her more supportive.  Laurel will be shown to be super competent as she trains in fighting, super helpful to Oliver, and super nice to Felicity and Diggle (whether KC can pull that off or whether it'll just come off as fake remains to be seen).  At the same time, I surmise that Season 3 will also explore the Oliver and Felicity relationship with them agreeing to remain friends by season's end.  That will set up Season 4 to bring Oliver and Laurel back together and to make Laurel the Black Canary (with the EPs hoping we'll have forgotten Sara by then).  That's my speculation and my fear.

Edited June 30, 2014 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Wow, that's an extremely depressing (to me anyway) speculation and fear.

[tv echo]

My imagination is running wild with nightmare scenes of Laurel and Felicity bonding in the new Arrowcave.  Picture a scene where Laurel is giving relationship advice to Felicity on

how to deal with 'Daniel'

.  Or:

 

Laurel:  My sister left me - again!  Because everyone leaves me!  (sob, sob)

Felicity:  I've never had a sister... but maybe I could be your friend?

(They hug.)

 

Terrible, I know.

 

My hopes for Season 3?  I'd like Oliver and Felicity's relationship to deepen in terms of friendship, shared confidences, and trust.  At some point, I'd like Oliver to acknowledge openly that he does love Felicity in the romantic sense.  They can even kiss.  However, I don't want them to get involved sexually yet because, as soon as they do hook up, you know that the relationship will be short-lived (because, TV and CW, you know).  I don't trust the EPs and writers to give Oliver a long-term girlfriend without messing it up at this point.  Unless they can do it right, I'd rather continue the slow burn.  That said, I don't want Oliver's romances to overwhelm the main "mythology" of the series.  As for Laurel, I hope that she does not become the Black Canary and is either killed off or leaves Starling City to go live with her mother.  I'm not holding my breath, though.

[Morrigan2575]

My hopes for Olicity is pretty similar.  I hope that they slowly build the relationship and I'd actually love it if the roles were reversed in S3.  In S2 everyone and their mother (literally) pointed out Felicity's feelings for Oliver.  I'd love to see, Felicity take the Beach scene and be like eff it...I'm over him.  Then in S2 have people point out Oliver's feelings for Felicity while she has other things going on.  

 

I'd also like to see S3 be a slow build towards Olicity with a real kiss or ILY in the S3 finale.  The actual O/F relationship can take place in S4.  Beyond that, I have no idea, I'd hate to see them break up/make up or break up and jump to O/L for some predetermined ending because...comics!

 

I don't fear that the show will have O/F decide that they love each other but are better off as friends because quite frankly that would still keep the ship alive and shippers hoping for a reunion.  However, I do fear that if MG and AK really think Laurel/Black Canary and O/L OTP are what we NEED even if it's not what we WANT, then I fear they will either kill Felicity or kill O/F in a way that will cause the fandom to abandon the ship (Oliver cheating on Felicity or sacrificing Felicity for Laurel would pretty much do it) IMO.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Password]

My biggest hope is that Oliver admits, or someone alludes to Oliver having feelings for her. I don't want Felicity to look like a muppet whilst he "finds himself". And really I want Oliver to stay single but...not all my hopes are answered. Sometimes my fears are.

[dtissagirl]

However, I do fear that if MG and AK really think Laurel/Black Canary and O/L OTP are what we NEED even if it's not what we WANT, then I fear they will either kill Felicity or kill O/F in a way that will cause the fandom to abandon the ship (Oliver cheating on Felicity or sacrificing Felicity for Laurel would pretty much do it) IMO.

 

At this point I have got to believe that the studio and the network would veto the storyline. Arrow is one of the hottest commodities the WB have right now -- the show does incredibly well in multiple foreign markets, and is doing pretty all right on both iTunes and Netflix. The execs are more than aware that Felicity is their secret weapon in terms of marketing the show. MG and AK can have all the ~vision they want, but if the studio believes it'll interfere in sales, there's no way they'll get the green light.

 

Because the problem with them killing Felicity, or putting a nasty end to F/O is that it might end up actually killing the show itself. I have no doubt a big enough portion of the audience would leave if that happened. Just look at the How I Met Your Mother spin-off not getting picked up, after the finale left so many people in rage mode.

 

The only way I can see them killing Felicity is if EBR wants out [but why would she?], or if they do it in the very last episode. Anytime before that and I'm almost certain that the WB would send them a big fat "NO!" note.

Edited June 30, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Morrigan2575]

Yes, you make a very good point.  While this is a fear of mine I do realize the odds of it happening are slim given that the Network/Studio would (most likely) never approve that storyline.  In fact I'd almost bet that the network/studio would get rid of MG/AK before they ever allowed something like that to happen.  

[poetgirl925]

I tend to agree with dancingnancy that the network would be cautious. Even killing F/O romantically in a nasty way (e.g. Oliver cheating or risking Felicity for Laurel) would be incredibly risky. I know where this fear comes from - Oliver's cheating past and I've seen some people say Oliver risked Felicity to save Laurel in the finale. The first is hard to argue, but Oliver had already said the city comes first when he found out Laurel had been kidnapped, so I think he trusted Felicity with his plan to save the city as a whole. They've all (SA and EPs) said Oliver is on a hero's journey. It doesn't make sense to have the hero betray the person who first believed that's what he could be. Watching Oliver betray someone like Felicity who has risked her life to support his journey would be a terrible hero's journey even for non shippers, so it's difficult to imagine no one in the writer's room would bring that up. I think even Amell would object to that.That's also a good point about iTunes, Netflix, etc. I purchased the season pass for S2 after the first nine episodes and the focus on Team Arrow. Then 11-17 happened, so I'll wait a while before purchasing the season pass again.

My biggest hope is that they won't move too fast with O/F. I'd like to see some individual character development for Felicity first and some emotional growth from Oliver. I'm hoping they'll focus on Team Arrow again without so many outsiders coming and going. My biggest fear is that Laurel will be running around the Arrow Cave all the time trying to be friends with everyone. Maybe because she never spared a glance in Felicity or Diggle's direction before she knew they were on the hero's team? I don't know, it just doesn't seem like it fits her personality, and I can see her being dismissive of Oliver's bond with his team. That 'Why do they get to go and not me' line from her (and during her first time in the lair) was extremely telling, not to mention the way she dismissed Digg and Felicity so she could talk to him.

[Orion]

Add me to the afraid they will kill off Felicity to fulfill comic canon column. Its my fear because yes, the EPs have acknowledged that Olicity/Felicity is very popular and have shown a willingness to go there, but you still also get the feeling that group is clinging to Laurel like a chubby kid latches on to chocolate bar.  I can see teasing Olicity through Season 3, giving us Olicity in Season 4 and killing her off Season 5 to give us what we "need" and ending the show with the BC/GA hook up that seem to love so much. I can see them trying to sell the network on "see we are giving the fans Olicity and they will never break up and get back together and by the time the last season comes around everyone will be so invested in the story that they won't leave." It all comes down to me not believing that they see all the problems behind the Laurel/Laurel & Oliver character/relationship.

[Morrigan2575]

It never seemed an obstacle for Oliver and Felicity. Just a bomb for Laurel. I wish they came up with a different obstacle because that one just made me feel ill.

 

I don't know if it seemed like an obstacle to O/F or not to the general viewer but it was pretty clearly intended to be an obstacle for O/F as that's exactly what the producers called it.  I was kind of shocked when MG said in a very early interview (Dec/Jan) that Barry was an Olicity obstacle and that another one was coming up fairly soon...cue O/S.

 

know where this fear comes from - Oliver's cheating past and I've seen some people say Oliver risked Felicity to save Laurel in the finale. The first is hard to argue, but Oliver had already said the city comes first when he found out Laurel had been kidnapped, so I think he trusted Felicity with his plan to save the city as a whole.

 

The only people I think believe Oliver sacrificed Felicity for Laurel are Laurel and Lauiver supporters.  Oliver offered Felicity up as bait to stop Slade and save the City and to find a way to do it without having to kill him.  Thus furthering Oliver's journey from vigilante to hero, IMO.

 

I can see teasing Olicity through Season 3, giving us Olicity in Season 4 and killing her off Season 5 to give us what we "need" and ending the show with the BC/GA hook up that seem to love so much. I can see them trying to sell the network on "see we are giving the fans Olicity and they will never break up and get back together and by the time the last season comes around everyone will be so invested in the story that they won't leave." It all comes down to me not believing that they see all the problems behind the Laurel/Laurel & Oliver character/relationship.

 

The problem there is how do they know S5 is the final season?  Yeah they planned for 5 years of flashbacks but they've also talked about what happens if the show goes 6 years.  It's very rare that a US show will leave before it gets kicked out due to low ratings.  Yeah there are a few that choose to end (for various reasons) but it's more common for a show to be told you're out (network not renewing or announcing a final season).

 

So while I can see these EPs (assuming their still in charge when the show is in it's final season) deciding to end on O/L

so they can keep to comics.

I can't see them planning something that well in advance. 

Of course the really funny part is I don't think there are that many comic fans screaming for O/L or Laurel=Black Canary...certainly not as many as Laurel/KC stans would have us believe.

 

Edited June 30, 2014 by SilverStormm
Tagged comic talk.

[calliope1975]

Of course the really funny part is I don't think there are that many comic fans screaming for O/L or Laurel=Black Canary...certainly not as many as Laurel/KC stans would have us believe.  

 

You know, I don't know any comic fans that are clamoring for Laurel to become BC. They've all loved or at least liked Sara and didn't really care that her name wasn't Dinah. I only tend to go to comic websites for info and not the forums so maybe there's a big push there for Laurel as BC.

 

My fear is that Laurel as BC will be announced at Comic Con. No basis for that. Also that she'll be all up in the Arrow cave next year.

 

My hope is that no one will tell her there's a new Arrow cave and she'll show up at Verdant and be sad Team Arrow won't let her sit at their table. But seriously, I'd like Olicity to continue to grow without any pointless drama between the two, more Diggle, Oliver to develop into a hero (he's newborn hero at best right now), Quentin to continue in his Commissioner Gordon role, very, very little baby mama drama, and little to no Laurel.

Edited June 30, 2014 by SilverStormm
Tagged comic talk.

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Reminder: As per the OP: this thread is for speculating what you hope or fear will happen in season 3 only. Any season 1 or 2 gripes must be taken to the Target Practice thread. Also, please remember to spoiler tag any comic book info/discussion in non spoiler prefixed threads. For these reasons, some posts have had content tagged, whilst others have been moved.

Thank you.

[statsgirl]

 

I really think that they're going to use Season 3 to try to boost Laurel/KC's popularity with Arrow fans by propping up her character as part of Team Arrow and rehabbing her personality to make her more supportive.

I really hope they don't.  For their sakes as well as mine.  There must have been a lot of calls to go back to the original Team Arrow in the second half of season 2 because by early May Kreisburg was saying that the finale would be big on Team Arrow and SA has said that the start of next season would be more 'intimate' (by which I hope he means a smaller Arrow cave). And that's at a time when Sara was there and she is well liked, unlike Laurel.

 

I don't think Barry was ever really an Olicity obstacle, I think they just promoted it that way to get people excited about Barry and push for The Flash show.  On the other hand, 

I do think 'Daniel' is going to be a major obstacle as well as a business and superhero rival to Oliver. I hope they don't blow it;

 my fear is that they will spend so much making it about the romantic stuff that they will end up giving people a distaste for Olicity because it becomes too much of a CW soap opera.

 

 

I'd also like to see S3 be a slow build towards Olicity with a real kiss or ILY in the S3 finale.  The actual O/F relationship can take place in S4.  Beyond that, I have no idea, I'd hate to see them break up/make up or break up and jump to O/L for some predetermined ending because...comics!

Me too.

 

Since they didn't kill off Sara because she was so popular, I can't see them killing off Felicity even at the end of the show so Oliver can go back to Laurel.  Yes, it would be the end of the series but all the EPs and producers will need to find new shows and it would be stupid to turn off the viewers like that.

 

 

My hope is that no one will tell her there's a new Arrow cave and she'll show up at Verdant and be sad Team Arrow won't let her sit at their table.

I'd love that so much.  And she's got leather clothes now too!

[poetgirl925]

My hopes for Olicity is pretty similar.  I hope that they slowly build the relationship and I'd actually love it if the roles were reversed in S3.  In S2 everyone and their mother (literally) pointed out Felicity's feelings for Oliver.  I'd love to see, Felicity take the Beach scene and be like eff it...I'm over him.  Then in S2 have people point out Oliver's feelings for Felicity while she has other things going on.

This could be an interesting parallel if they use it as an opportunity for Oliver to really examine his feelings and his past behavior. Frankly, I would like to see a conversation between Oliver and Diggle about his pattern of cheating in the past. This could come up if they revisit the baby mama drama, although I fear that will end up being tired L/O territory since he was likely cheating on her when he got that girl pregnant.

I'm sort of hoping for no major Oliver romance stories in S3 - I'm okay with continuing to develop F/O but it really does need to be done carefully. I like the idea of a celibate, introspective, team and self-growth oriented Oliver. If they have to show Oliver sexy times, I say do it in the flashbacks. But please NOT Waller - I don't get sexy vibes between them but my fear is that they'll continue Oliver's theme of sleeping his way through my fave female DC characters. (I'm still not over Huntress.)

[statsgirl]

 

I like the idea of a celibate, introspective, team and self-growth oriented Oliver.

Me too, which is why I think they're going to have him sleeping with Waller in the past. Or maybe someone we haven't met yet.  They're not going to be able to resist showing what a stud he is.

 

Oliver was either with Laurel or on one of their breaks when he got the other girl pregnant because when he told Moira, she assumed it was Laurel who was preggers.  I really hope that when Laurel finds out that he was cheating on her (again) and got another girl pregnant, she slams the romance door in his face permanently,  I fear however that she will excuse him because the Arrow is just so awesome.

[TanyaKay]

you know what makes me bitter? Katie Cassidy telling everyone that she is gonna join team arrow!

I mean have we not had enough of her bratty self when she was throwing glasses at her family, calling her sister a bitch (flashback), being a total diva to her dad when he was trying to help and knowing Ollie to the bones but now she has to come and ruin the team dynamics in the lair?

I don't see her getting along with Diggle at all! Felicity and Roy may tolerate her but Diggle would not. Diggle is just not the type who would tolerate a drama queen!

[Password]

I don't see her getting along with Diggle at all! Felicity and Roy may tolerate her but Diggle would not. Diggle is just not the type who would tolerate a drama queen!

 

I won't lie. Diggle throwing copious amounts of shade at Laurel is something I really look forward to. Please, please, please let the man breathe.

[AnyoneButYou]

you know what makes me bitter? Katie Cassidy telling everyone that she is gonna join team arrow!

I mean have we not had enough of her bratty self when she was throwing glasses at her family, calling her sister a bitch (flashback), being a total diva to her dad when he was trying to help and knowing Ollie to the bones but now she has to come and ruin the team dynamics in the lair?

I don't see her getting along with Diggle at all! Felicity and Roy may tolerate her but Diggle would not. Diggle is just not the type who would tolerate a drama queen!

 

I feel really bad for SA, EBR, and DR if this is true. SA was talking about how goofy Team Arrow is in between takes, and now KC's method acting self is probably going to ruin that. Yeah, I'm bitter.

[Orion]

I'm bring this over from the Burned review written by @quarks. I'm not sure if this is where I should put this. Is Laurel maybe becoming

The Black Canary

a spoiler? If this is the wrong spot could someone let me know. :) Thanks!

 

This may be what the writers are talking about when they say that it's more fun to write for Laurel now that she knows: it's very difficult to allow Laurel to triumph - which is a big problem on a superhero show - when she's only sorta working with the Hood.  Felicity and Diggle can figure things out since they're right next to Oliver and working with him, making this is a team effort that supports Oliver; Laurel's kinda in opposition. We'll see how this goes.

 

 

I think that quote really illustrates the problems the writers are going to have with Laurel as a member of Team Arrow and becoming the Black Canary, if/when that happens. How will she ever Triumph when Oliver is the protagonist and the story revolves around him?  Oliver will always have years more under fire experience than her. She'll be able to team up with him, I guess, but she'll never be able to excel. Either the show will have to dumb down Oliver to let her catch up or she will always be his sidekick. Either way that's not going to sit well with fans of BC or of Oliver.  You really get the feeling that writers see her becoming involved in the A plot as the solution to all their problems with Laurel but if anything its just going to make it worse.  Other heroes stop by and have their moments, Sara, Nyssa, I'm assuming Barry at some point but then they go back to another world. If Laurel is hanging around they are going to have to find a way for her to battle beside him and in joint battles someone is going to have to be the leader.

The writers ran into the same thing with Sara. Oliver is the one that wins the majority of the battles. He sets up where those confrontations take place, his team finds the evidence on the bad guy, he decides how the bad guys are handled.  Felicity and Diggle have such different skill sets than Oliver that they are never in direct competition and when Diggle has fought beside Oliver, most of the time Oliver has to help out Diggle or they are fighting separately but even then the terms of the fight are Oliver's. Unless they give Laurel her own team that's how it's going to be with her and with how tight the money is over on the CW I can't picturing production doubling up on bad guys and fight scenes.

Basically the EPs of this show have set up a Black Canary/Green Arrow as mentor and mentee and that is not what those two are suppose to be about. I just don't see a way this is going to work out well for anyone. 

[BkWurm1]

Unless they give Laurel her own team

 

If they just keep Laurel in the DA's office, she ostensibly does have her own team.  They need to let Laurel find wins that Oliver is not in competition for.

[KirkB]

Given the apparent state before Slade cleaned house, and now with Laurel presumably in a pretty good position there she got by blackmail, does this make the DA's office more or less corrupt than it was before?

[tv echo]

With Laurel still in the D.A.'s office, I think the EPs will want the D.A.'s office to be considered less corrupt.  Laurel believes that she is good, but she has a history of doing what she wants in order to achieve her goals (as I've posted in the Laurel thread).

 

As for Felicity, I really do think that as long as AK (and may MG) is an EP of the show, Oliver will never end up with Felicity.  I think

giving her 'Daniel' as a love interest is a way to test the waters of having Felicity end up with someone else

.  The EPs still seem pro-Oliver/Laurel.

Edited July 2, 2014 by tv echo

[JayKay]

I wonder if the little boy Sara rescued and his mom in Streets of Fire will ever show up again. With Laurel telling them that Sara was "the Canary," they've set up a fool-proof alibi for Laurel if she ever decides to try to live in Sara's shadow.

 

I hope that if Laurel ends up becoming the Canary, no one will be offended when I start calling the leather jacket a slut for sister-swapping.

[KirkB]

I hope that if Laurel ends up becoming the Canary, no one will be offended when I start calling the leather jacket a slut for sister-swapping.

 

Worked for Oliver. :)

[Starfish35]

http://tvline.com/2014/07/03/batman-v-superman-movie-stephen-amell-arrow/

Amell then enthused that “playing Arrow on television isn’t a consolation prize. We play the definitive versions of our characters in the DC Universe.”

That reminded me of this, and got me to thinking.

The big distinction and the most important distinction for me and everybody on the show, by the way, is I’m not playing the television version of Oliver Queen. Caity Lotz is not playing the television version of The Canary, and Manu Bennett is not trying to encapsulate the television version of Slade Wilson. Grant Gustin is not trying to do the television version of Barry Allen.”

Amell continued, “We’re trying to do the definitive versions.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/12/25/arrows-stephen-amell-wants-shared-universe-with-batman-vs-superman

I understand that as recently as Denver Comic-Con Stephen was referring to Sara as "the Canary."

Has Stephen ever said anything about Laurel as Black Canary since Sara came on? Maybe I'm misreading things, but it seems like Stephen is very pro-Caity as Black Canary. I remember his very evasive answer a few months ago to whether or not Laurel would become Black Canary, since Sara is only called Canary, and he basically talked about how Oliver isn't called Green Arrow yet either, and basically compared the Black Canary journey of this season to Oliver's season one journey. In retrospect maybe he was talking about Laurel, but it seemed more like he was talking about Sara, and I remember assuming at that point that that meant Sara was staying as Black Canary for S3.

Now of course things are different. I guess I'm just trying to reconcile Stephen's apparent references to Sara as the Canary (in one case the "definitive" Canary) with the apparent reality that Laurel will be Canary in S3. Anyone have any thoughts?

[dtissagirl]

Not only everyone but KC often refers to Sara off-screen as "Canary" [and sometimes even as "Black Canary", but I'm willing to see that as mere slips], Laurel called Sara "The Canary" in the show, so, for me, right now, Sara is Canary. As Oliver is Arrow. From what Amell has said in several interviews and panels, becoming "Green Arrow" and "Black Canary" requires further character development... and the way he said it, I took it as implied that that development was from Canary TO Black Canary, which means Sara.

The only thing Laurel has is the magical jacket. Well, she has the name too, sort of,

but in the comics Black Canary is DInah, never Laurel

. If Laurel is gonna be Black Canary, then by the show's own logic, she has to be Canary first. And for that to happen they have to either get rid of Sara, or make Sara into something else.

Which makes very little sense to me considering it's way way WAY easier to make Laurel Manhunter [she has the right profession, the right job, the right blackmailing skills] and

keep Sara as Canary, but apparently, the EPs do not get the point of Occam's Razor.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SilverStormm
Tagged comic book talk.

[Actionmage]

I really want Laurel to decide to stay in the DA's office. Sure, she can try her hand at stopping bad guys, but it seems with the way Laurel has been written, she'd whine at the bad guys about making her chip her manicure. (From any other character, that has the potential of being chuckle-worthy in the best way, yet I think that Laurel would actually care about her damn manicure.) So I want Laurel to stay as is, try it, dislike the timesuck it is, not come to an understanding with Pain, and decide to be the "secret" helper in the DA's office.

 

I'd like it if John and Lyla  are happy, if a bit security-conscious, parents/-to-be.  I would hope for one, and only one, episode where there is a playpen in the Cave so Dig can watch the baby as Lyla's out on a mission with the Squad.  Maybe Baby Dig's nanny/many can be Roy? Or maybe Mary Bromfield

(Mary Marvel before she becomes Mary Marvel)?

She can just be a human teen who is observant, smart and resilient. The name is the only thing of real note and she's just a cool nanny.

 

As much as I want to know more about Felicity's family, I also want the 'why's of Andy Diggle's death explained.

 

And Oliver to not state that he's being celebate, but just be celebate because he's got a multinational to try to right, a fortune to reclaim, a sister to find, and bad guys coming out of the woodwork. Dude's a bit busy, even being a multitasker. 

 

Oh! I also want the fiscal bs to have been nightmare stuff and the Queens actually are solvent and the broke, penniless stuff is never spoken of again. Unless they can write a scenario that is more plausible. ::not holding breath::

 

I don't want to put my fears out there in case the folks in charge of Laurel "joining" Team Arrow read my negative thoughts and think  they are worth doing for Laurel. Not that that is likely, period, but that it's out in the world. Sadly, I tend to read these scenarios and I can see that they could happen since there seems to be no ridiculous ideas in regards to Laurel, except letting her be a grouchy, misanthropic law-talkin' chick. Which could be awesome, so they refuse to do so.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SilverStormm
Comic info tagged.

[dtissagirl]

I still hope [more like wish desperately] this entire thing about Laurel becoming Canary is a big fake-out. Maybe Laurel decides to take up beating up misogynist jerks because Sara isn't there to do it [and it goes terribly wrong]. Or maybe Team Arrow needs to keep up the appearance that Canary is still in town for a mission, and Laurel helps out [a la Buffybot, I guess] -- but it only lasts for 1-2 episodes and then she goes back to being a lawyer. They can open Act 1 Scene 1 of 301 with Laurel wearing the jacket, the mask and the wig if it turns out to be extremely temporary, even.

 

I'm deluding myself, aren't I? SIGH.

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note: It has been repeatedly requested that comic info be tagged in all threads except the ones prefixed as 'Spoilers', yet this still remains an issue. If it continues unabated, we will have no choice but to consider taking further steps with individuals who continue to violate this instruction. Please take care when posting, we would prefer to not have to take further action but we will do so if the need arises.

 

Thank you.

[pootlus]

, you and me both - that's what I'm clinging to at the moment too.

 

It's really odd, as I don't think disliking one particular character has ever driven me away from a show before - when I've pretty much loved the rest of it.  I've had plenty of 'Well I hate X, but the rest of the show is pretty meh too, so why bother watching?' scenarios but Arrow is breaking new ground...unfortunately.

[writersblock51]

With today's casting news...

 

moving comments back to Spoilers  thread.  thanks the heads up, @Morrigan2575 !

Edited July 7, 2014 by writersblock51

[Morrigan2575]

@writersblock51 - We're not supposed to talk about spoilers in this thread, even if they make us bitter.

[wingster55]

My big hope? More of Diggle as I've oft mentioned here, as well as the first (two or so) episodes to be focused on Thea..as in finding where she is etc. 

That's the only cliffhanger that interested me really.

[BkWurm1]

Over in the Felicity thread we were talking about which parent of Felicity's we'd prefer to see first.  I'm not sure I have a huge preference but a mom episode would make for a fun adventure.  IFelicity gets a frantic call from her mother who's in trouble and her team backs her up and insists on going along.  Insert a few loan shark type guys, some situation where the mom is over her head and it practically writes itself.  I don't know if the writers would be inclined to send them to Vegas or have the mom flee to Starling City but either way, it wouldn't be hard to work up the need for a little but kicking and bonding.

[Starfish35]

Moved from Felicity thread...

While I'm interested in seeing her mother, I think I'd rather have the dad question settled once and for all. As long as her dad is still an unknown, people will continue to speculate that it's anyone from Robert Queen to....whoever the Big Bad of the season is. (The insistence last season that Ivo was going to be Felicity's father ended up getting on my nerves a bit.)

-----

The idea of a Vegas adventure episode sounds like a lot of fun though. ;)

[writersblock51]

I love the idea of a Vegas adventure!

 

As for Felicity's dad, I wonder if the show made as much of a fuss about it than we/Tumblr/Twitter made it out to be.  He seems so urgent but why, really?

 

Now moving my speculation to the proper thread........

[Orion]

If the writers stick with what they said last season that Felicity's family wouldn't have fit in with how dark the back half of S2 was because it is a lighter story then my bets are on Mom shows up. But just because it's mom doesn't mean she won't come baring news of dear old dad.

 

I like bkwurms idea of a loan shark hot on her heals or less entertaining would be Felicity being injured and Oliver having to call her mom, or Felicity slips up that she's dating the head of QC and mom shows up with dollar signs in her eyes. Lots of possibilities but I'm kinda in the place now of I really don't care who it is or why they are there (Ray, Mom, Dad) as long they come with a suitcase full of info on Felicity.   And if Ray turns out to the Lacrosse player from MIT I'm good with that too.