Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, Lidach said:

OMG, I would love that! :D 

Oh the fanfic!!!! Can you imagine all the fanfic!!!!!! 

[Ophanim]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

Oh the fanfic!!!! Can you imagine all the fanfic!!!!!! 

Fanfic writers wanted!! 

[Trini]

With the Laurel Lance reveal in the mid-season finale, I got to thinking - how many ways have they brought characters back from the dead on Arrow?

1. Haha, kidding! This person was not really dead at all.
2. Mirakuru serum.
3. Lazurus pit.
4. Hallucination / dream.
5. Time travel (but maybe it shouldn't count because it was a crossover?).

Then memories/flashbacks which are not quite the same. Did I miss any?

[CooperTV]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Then memories/flashbacks which are not quite the same. Did I miss any?

Laurel is From Earth 2, thus being Black Siren The Flash Team trapped in the metaprison in season 2, and now she's working for Prometheus, I think?

[Trini]

The biggest reason I don't think she is Black Siren is because Arrow  itself has never dealt with characters characters from another universe. I'm not counting crossover cameos, though.

[Trini]

Black Siren is a possibility; I just doubt that the Arrow producers/writers would want to bring in an obscure Flash character to tell their story on their own show, even if she is being played by an actress from Arrow.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Trini

[Velocity23]

But she is also appearing on the Flash according to Andrew Kreisberg. So it's most likely all connected to Black Siren.  She is also not sticking around, why would you do a resurrection for a character that will be there for 1 or 2 episodes. 

Quote

It’s been said that Katie Cassidy is going to be on The Flash again this season. What can you tease of her return?
Again, we don’t want to give too much away, but Katie will be back and it’s going to be fun and exciting — that much I can promise.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/10/03/flash-season-3-spoilers-flashpoint

Edited December 9, 2016 by Velocity23

[Trini]

20 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

But she is also appearing on the Flash according to Andrew Kreisberg. So it's most likely all connected to Black Siren.  She is also not sticking around, why would you do a resurrection for a character that will be there for 1 or 2 episodes. 

By "she" do you mean Laurel Lance? Because I don't think (and never said) it's necessarily her, resurrected. (Although that's a possibility, too.) They've resurrected characters to move on to spinoffs, though. The Laurel that showed up in the ArrowCave - if it's not a hallucination/dream - could also be an impostor. We've already seen someone convincingly imitate Oliver Queen in the show.

And again, the Arrow writers seem to only pay attention to Flash stuff when it's a crossover, so I don't think Black Siren showing up on The Flash (which hasn't been confirmed yet?) means anything for Arrow.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Trini said:

And again, the Arrow writers seem to only pay attention to Flash stuff when it's a crossover, so I don't think Black Siren showing up on The Flash (which hasn't been confirmed yet?) means anything for Arrow.

Flashpoint doesn't mean anything to Arrow either, but look how that turned out. 

[Carrie Ann]

The Flash never cared about Laurel either, and yet Black Siren appeared there. IMO, the purpose of intro-ing BS was ultimately to bring her to Arrow at some point. It was like Chekhov's gun for Arrow.

[Velocity23]

They also gave Laurel the canary cry on Flash and then she just started using it on  Arrow. 

[Starfish35]

I think it's Black Siren.  There's a slight bit of doubt in my mind, that wow, would they really bring the real Laurel back to life?  But I'm like 95% sure it's Black Siren. (Totally scientific estimate - lol)

[Morrigan2575]

A flashpoint or time travel change would result in her never dying. Why would Oliver be so shocked to see LL if she wasn't dead? He wouldn't because to him she'd never died.

Just like TA never knew about Baby Sara until someone told them

Just like Caitlin never knew a reality where Stein didn't have a daughter, etc.

The only real possibilities are AU Laurel, Hallucination Laurel, or pre-death LL time travel LL. Except there's nothing on LoT that set up LL being pulled from time before she died. There's really nothing to suggest Oliver is under the influence like in 3 Ghosts. That just leaves an AU Version, which was already introduced in Flash last season.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[LeighAn]

Considering the title of the next episode is called Who are you? I think the team and the audience will be called to be suspicious and question if Laurel is who she says she is and therefore casting doubts.

I personally think she will be Black Siren posing as Laurel. 

[kismet]

I'm guessing its Black Siren or some reincarnated person posing as LL under bad guy's tutelage. The fact that she called him Ollie for me was the indicator that it's not LL. Somehow, I recall LL calling him Oliver more often than Ollie since his return from the island. Ollie is the name someone posing as LL would say.

But let's be honest, is LL's resurrection from the dead really that huge of a cliffhanger to keep people talking for weeks?? For me it's not. OQ being pushed from the mountaintop was a cliffhanger. That got me talking and thinking. We knew he wasn't dead, but that was a real OMG moment that spurred thousands of theories. LL being "alive" in any capacity is just predictable storytelling disguised as flashy cliffhanger. I just hope they have an actual substantial story to go along with their shallow "OMG" moment. Because otherwise what's the point?

Unless and here is me balls to wall crazy theory of the season which is LL is Prometheus.... which well would be kinda fitting in many ways. So yeah, thanks Arrow for making me hopeful for yet another predictable reveal of the big bad because at this point it's either that DA guy or LL.

Edited December 11, 2016 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

On 12/10/2016 at 9:28 PM, kismet said:

I'm guessing its Black Siren or some reincarnated person posing as LL under bad guy's tutelage. The fact that she called him Ollie for me was the indicator that it's not LL. Somehow, I recall LL calling him Oliver more often than Ollie since his return from the island. Ollie is the name someone posing as LL would say.

I'm guessing you're right but not based on Ollie/Oliver .  LL pulled out the Ollie during some emotional times even if Oliver was her more common go to.

But we know LL died and we know Black Siren is on E1, so it's the most logical explanation.  I really don't get why TPTB would think it a worthy cliffhanger.  Maybe for some that didn't watch the Flash episode? Anyone checking boards would have at least heard about it.  

[bijoux]

There was a reference to the Flashpoint with Dig and noobs in the lair. I'm guessing that was supposed to make viewers speculate if Laurel was somehow alive because of it. Even if it doesn't track with the storyline actually going on post-Flashpoint.

[tangerine95]

I think it's stupid to use it as a cliffhanger especially because the big death last season happened in part to give stakes back to the show and make death matter again because they've been criticized that no one ever really dies on arrow. So I don't get making your midseason clifhanger something that's asking people to speculate if Arrow just brought back yet another character when its something they did so much it became a joke. 

Spoiler

And it makes even less sense because its been already spoiled LL would show up for a few guest spots and that she's BS so the part of the audience that might create the buzz by speculating has already been spoiled about it for months. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by kariyaki
Added spoiler tags

[Morrigan2575]

I personally thought it was stupid beyond belief. I mean EVERYONE had to know it wasn't Laurel and was Black Siren, right?

Except, look at the reviews for the episode. Look at people claiming 'I knew she wasn't dead screw everyone that said she was' (paraphrased from a review). Look at the others speculating, worrying, complaining that it's Flashpoint Laurel, etc.  It seems like the EPs got this one right, people are actually talking about Laurel being alive and speculating what it could mean. 

I admittedly think it's dumb since Black Siren is so obvious. However, maybe these people don't watch Flash or just had short attention spans?

Edited December 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, tangerine95 said:

 

I think it's stupid to use it as a cliffhanger especially because the big death last season happened in part to give stakes back to the show and make death matter again because they've been criticized that no one ever really dies on arrow.

 

Really? Tommy really died. Moria really died. Sara really died, except she was brought back to life thanks to the Lazarus Pit. So killing Laurel was just continuing their tradition of killing off characters near the end of a season. I'm saying this as someone who just marathon watched all four seasons, and have only seen the crossover (which I posted how it came off as rip-off of B:TAS: "Perchance to Dream"), and the mid-season finale. I'm hoping during the winter hiatus, that I'll be able to catch up on the first seven episodes I missed. And I'm not one who is in the know of spoilers, spumors, etc., but just basing my thoughts on episodes I've seen.

[tangerine95]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Really? Tommy really died. Moria really died. Sara really died, except she was brought back to life thanks to the Lazarus Pit. So killing Laurel was just continuing their tradition of killing off characters near the end of a season. I'm saying this as someone who just marathon watched all four seasons, and have only seen the crossover (which I posted how it came off as rip-off of B:TAS: "Perchance to Dream"), and the mid-season finale. I'm hoping during the winter hiatus, that I'll be able to catch up on the first seven episodes I missed. And I'm not one who is in the know of spoilers, spumors, etc., but just basing my thoughts on episodes I've seen.

Yeah but there really was an impression that most people don't stay dead or a lot of the deaths are fake outs and a lot of people and reviews talked about it.Like Sara came back even tho they swore she's dead, Malcolm turned out alive in season 2, Ray got blown up and turned out alive, Roy and Oliver  and sort of Thea too got a fake out death in season 3.I did think after all that they needed an actual death to raise the stakes and be permanent which is what they were selling LL dying as.I don't think they went back on it tho, I just think its dumb to try and tease people to think they might have only for the sake of a twist. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Malcolm turned out alive in season 2, Ray got blown up and turned out alive, Roy and Oliver  and sort of Thea too got a fake out death in season 3.

Oh, I never thought he died, heh. And I knew no way was Ray dead, because, The Atom. And Thea was near-death, she never actually died. I guess it's just how viewers perceived those events. And not for nothing, but the way this show utilizes the Lazarus Pit is such BULLSHIT.

[kismet]

Having now watched all the episodes, I definitely agree that it is a stupid cliffhanger. Initially I had seen the scene separate from a few episodes having been interested in the "Who" in the headline on some sites. It is perhaps the weakest cliffhanger from a narrative or character standpoint. It fails as both a good ending scene in any episode, and even worse considering it was the Winter finale. However, it was flashy way to get people talking. It was par for the course with these writers that they take the flashy and less substantive choice. Long gone are the days of them making quality cliffhangers and narrative choices. It got some attention from the media outlets and reviewers but I do not believe it will sustain interest.

Like I said earlier, I hope they have a more thought out & substantial plan - because even the OMG moment failed miserably upon 2nd viewing. Which for me is the true test of a cliffhanger, if even knowing the scene one is still either shocked or eager for the big reveal - then it is a success. Think about when Deathstroke was revealed alive or OQ pushed off the cliff. Those are moments I can watch in repeat and still have an emotional response to. With this reveal of KC it's either LL is not dead, BS is doing bad things, or there is tomfoolery going on. And ultimately none of them make me emotional or sustain my desire for a resolution. It's the breaking news of water being wet.

It's not a bold choice - its the equivalent of jumping off a sidewalk, not anywhere near a cliff or a hang. A predictable decision with about as much WOW as landing in a puddle. More inconvenience than anything else. 

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Really? Tommy really died. Moria really died. Sara really died, except she was brought back to life thanks to the Lazarus Pit. So killing Laurel was just continuing their tradition of killing off characters near the end of a season.

I get what you're saying but last season at least once and I think it was actually repeated a few times (but don't quote me on that part), one of the talking points in a producer interview was the need for the death to stick this time to bring back the stakes to the show.  They used that phrase "bring back the stakes".

Quote

Oh, I never thought he died, heh. 

You are the second person I know that after binging came away believing that Malcolm wasn't dead.  I totally didn't get that impression at the time and I don't recall anyone on the forums thinking that either (or at least saying it).  When Malcolm showed up it was a true surprise. (Or more accurately when I heard the spoiler that he was being added as a regular cast member I couldn't figure out how since he was dead.)  

Of course now that I know the writers I wouldn't have been able not to think Malcolm wasn't dead but at the time, only Oliver came back from the dead, lol.  

[Starfish35]

I didn't believe he was dead.  But I didn't binge-watch. :)

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I get what you're saying but last season at least once and I think it was actually repeated a few times (but don't quote me on that part), one of the talking points in a producer interview was the need for the death to stick this time to bring back the stakes to the show.  They used that phrase "bring back the stakes".

 

Ah, but see, I never saw or read that interview-I never watch those things because I got burned so many times when I watched Smallville in real time, heh. As @BkWurm1 can attest!??

 

15 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

You are the second person I know that after binging came away believing that Malcolm wasn't dead.  I totally didn't get that impression at the time and I don't recall anyone on the forums thinking that either (or at least saying it).  When Malcolm showed up it was a true surprise. (Or more accurately when I heard the spoiler that he was being added as a regular cast member I couldn't figure out how since he was dead.)  

Of course now that I know the writers I wouldn't have been able not to think Malcolm wasn't dead but at the time, only Oliver came back from the dead, lol.  

Well, he's a villain and they NEVER die!?And it was just remembering how Malcolm wore Kevlar, that I just assumed he had something that prevented him from dying, despite the blood I saw.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I didn't believe he was dead.  But I didn't binge-watch. :)

Oh I'm sure there were those out there like you, I just don't recall bumping into them at the time when the Dark Archer was "killed".  I'm usually pretty skeptical about those kinds of deaths but I never questioned it.  I'm more curious as to why, lol.  

[statsgirl]

The problem was that when Tommy died it was a shock. When Moira died, many of us were gutted (and still want her back).  But since s2, the only death that stuck was Ra's al Ghul, who we were hoping would finally die off, and Maseo and his kid, neither of whom were that important to the show.  The villain of the year tended to survive (Malcolm, Slade).  Amanda Waller died but there was no emotional connection in that. 

Guggenheim was all over interviews since the first graveside scene that this death was going to be really important, it was going to be for real, no take-backsies, because death had to matter on the show again.  They practically staked their reputation as writers on it.  So it seems strange that they want people to wonder if Laurel really is alive after all. It's like asking viewers to be on their integrity.

12 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I admittedly think it's dumb since Black Siren is so obvious. However, maybe these people don't watch Flash or just had short attention spans?

Or they just want her back so badly they don't care how it happens.

[LeighAn]

I think it's a case of the had no choice legally to write the show the way they wrote as has been speculated before. Marc himself talked about Katies representation in reference to her coming back. So they may have planned on doing the game changing shocking death but then had to kind of dial that back because of lawyers.

[yellowfred]

Yeah, the weird thing about the whole "people keep coming back to life" complaint is that they're rarely people we've actually seen die.  Like, the only people who've come back from an on-screen death are Oliver (the second time), Sara (the third time), and Malcolm.  I guess you could count Ray, though I never got the feeling they really expected us to believe he died.  I'm not counting Slade, because he'd already come back by the time we got the flashback of his "death."

Personally, I don't think they'd bring her back just because that would mean they'd have to give her something to do, which they struggled enough with before.  While I agree that Black Siren is the most likely explanation, I feel like it would be a bit of a let down.  I kind of want her to be a robot or something.  I have absolutely no support for that theory; I just think it'd be fun.

[BkWurm1]

29 minutes ago, yellowfred said:

 I kind of want her to be a robot or something.

Isn't that kind of synonymous with wanting the original Laurel back?  ;)

[DeadZeus]

If Prometheus is really Claybourne's son. I wonder if he knows what kindoff a dirtbag his father was. If he doesn't, i kinda want Oliver to defeat him by showing him who his dad really was and that he is not worth this vendetta. Effectually messing with his mind instead of Oliver always being the one that gets his mind messed up by the enemy.

[statsgirl]

On 2016-12-18 at 11:31 PM, yellowfred said:

Personally, I don't think they'd bring her back just because that would mean they'd have to give her something to do, which they struggled enough with before.  While I agree that Black Siren is the most likely explanation, I feel like it would be a bit of a let down.  I kind of want her to be a robot or something.  I have absolutely no support for that theory; I just think it'd be fun.

That would be perfect for the comic book fans who want the Black Canary back.  She'd be an awesome fighter and there would be none of the icky emotional stuff because she's a robot.

[kismet]

5 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Since the loudest complainers wisre the Because Comics sites and fans, it's clear that it wasn't romance on the show they had a problem with, but who Oliver was romancing. The vitriol against the show/Olicity/Felicity only ramped up when it became clear that she wasn't going to be just a notch in the post/speed bump on the road to a GA/BC endgame. 

^from comics thread.

This Is  one of the reasons I wonder If TPTB will use In defense of making FS, a BC. EBR is under contract. The chemistry Is there,  the O/F fans are there. A few tweaks and a couple mentions of legacy or In honor of LL and they might have a succesful formula to please the masses. I could see It being tossed around boardrooms and writers rooms. FS may not be a fighter but neither was LL or TQ. Just a theory I have.

*Please Ignore the random capital I's my mobile does something weird with I's when Im typing.

Edited January 16, 2017 by kismet

[LeighAn]

Except Marc tweeted only recently that Felicity as Black Canary will never happen and he said in the past that the only way Felicity will mask up is if he's not part of the show anymore.

And in the show this season they had Felicity reject the idea of wearing a mask when Oliver suggested it.

I don't know if it's because Marc finds the idea of Felicity in a mask insulting because he doesn't believe she needs it to make her relevant or its some sexist prejudice against Felicity because he thinks the idea of her as a masked hero is laughable I don't know (all though I'm inclined to believe the former) I don't see it happening.

I myself have no feelings one way or the other about Felicity suiting up but if done well it could be interesting to see if they could pull it off with her; problem is I don't think they could haha.

Edited January 16, 2017 by LeighAn

[Trini]

Felicity is the nerdy/quirky/comic relief tech girl, and I think they are proud of her as a new original character that became popular, so I don't see them ever changing that.

*(Save for the rare emergency situation - like when she wore Ray's suit.)

[lemotomato]

I loved that Felicity wore Ray's suit. Especially since I felt she never got properly acknowledged for helping him with it. Legit my favorite part of that episode, even more than the drive off into the sunset. 

[LeighAn]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Felicity is the nerdy/quirky/comic relief tech girl, and I think they are proud of her as a new original character that became popular, so I don't see them ever changing that.

*(Save for the rare emergency situation - like when she wore Ray's suit.)

I really don't like when fandom describes Felicity as the "comic relief girl" it comes across to me as a pc way of calling Felicity "not relevant". Not to mention Felicity is written and acted as more then one thing.

She's the heart of Team Arrow and Olivers heart, she is the light half of the brooding team as well as the moral centre, she's plans and directs the Team missions and she made Olivers team more organised, efficient and professional and frankly successful then it was prior to joining the team.

Shes also vunerable in a way that she hides behind a funny veneer, when hurt or stressed she can be short tempered and quick to hurt others in attempt to push them away. She needs purpose to fill fulfilled because she needs to feel needed because her father abandoning her left her with self worth issues. She bottles her own feelings and emotions about her own concerns by focusing or prioritising others above her own and doesn't like letting be there for her.

Shes multifaceted flawed and an evolved character even without a mask and I personally don't see why she CANT be a masked hero I just personally don't get the impression the writers WILL make her a masked hero based on comments they made in the past.

[statsgirl]

Felicity is my favourite character but I see her real strength as being the fact that she doesn't need a mask to be awesome.  She's like many real people, going through a trauma and scared of opening up and really living,  getting pushed out of her comfort zone and rising to the challenge, falling in love with someone who she thinks is out of her league.  She's so important to the team, unique even (until Curtis joined) but she doesn't need a martial arts background and to be a good fighter, she uses her brains to defeat the enemy.  (Personally speaking, I've got a better chance of beating the bad guy using my head then my very bad fighting skills.)

I think to make her BC #4 would diminish who she is now.  At the base on comms, she's the apex of the fighting team, not just more muscle.

If the fandom and the EPs weren't obsessed with masks and rated lower anyone who does have one, would we be having this conversation?

[BkWurm1]

More than anything, I don't think Felicity has ever been written as wanting to be a mask.  She doesn't go out and hit people but she's so much more powerful and can accomplish so much more with her computer and her intel and yeah, her heart.

 I really think she would be less special with the mask unless she got a mask so she could infiltrate other locations and hack their computers and tech. Otherwise, it's a waste of her brain to focus on her fists or kicks even if she did suddenly become a grade A fighter.  

[dtissagirl]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

Felicity is the nerdy/quirky/comic relief tech girl, and I think they are proud of her as a new original character that became popular, so I don't see them ever changing that.

*(Save for the rare emergency situation - like when she wore Ray's suit.)

I don't think Felicity needs a mask, but I find this justification of her being nerdy/quirky/comic relief tech kinda problematic. Cisco is nerdy/quirky/comic relief tech guy. Palmer is nerdy/quirky/comic relief trch guy. Curtis is nerdy/quirky/comic relief tech guy. Dr. Stein is nerdy/quirky/comic relief science guy. Nate is nerdy/quirky/comic relief history guy. They all have masks because 1. penis 2. comics. The nerdy/quirky/comic relief is only a limitation for the woman who possesses these very typical male characteristics. 

[Trini]

Quote

I don't think Felicity needs a mask, but I find this justification of her being nerdy/quirky/comic relief tech kinda problematic. Cisco is nerdy/quirky/comic relief tech guy. Palmer is nerdy/quirky/comic relief trch guy. Curtis is nerdy/quirky/comic relief tech guy. Dr. Stein is nerdy/quirky/comic relief science guy. Nate is nerdy/quirky/comic relief history guy. They all have masks because 1. penis 2. comics. The nerdy/quirky/comic relief is only a limitation for the woman who possesses these very typical male characteristics. 

Made a post that I realized fits better in the Felicity thread.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Trini

[AyChihuahua]

I wonder if there's anything they could do to fix the BMD. Like if some really talented tv writers who love the show replaced all the current writers/hacks...

A sincere, no-holds-barred, full-throated apology from Oliver to Felicity would still go a long way with me. No more of Guggie's "he had to" bullshit. And Oliver, etc., acknowledging, onscreen, that BM is a foul, lying, money-grubbing hag who slept with her good friend's boyfriend, not the Virgin Mother. I'd also need Thea to apologize, very sincerely. Then I'd need all the current shit writers to stay far away forever, bc otherwise I'd be just waiting for them to screw it up again.

(Going forward I'd need him to dump Susan and visibly/overtly pine for Felicity for a few episodes, AND do something to show her that he's working to regain her trust and won't ever cut her out of decisions that affect them both again.)

Edited January 17, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[Mellowyellow]

@AyChihuahua clearly you expect waaay too much!

I'd settle for them not ffing things up further. Don't need anything else. Just don't make things worse than they already are!

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

@AyChihuahua clearly you expect waaay too much!

I'd settle for them not ffing things up further. Don't need anything else. Just don't make things worse than they already are!

Oh yeah, it's totally theoretical. They don't even understand that it needs fixing.

[insomniadreams88]

8 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I wonder if there's anything they could do to fix the BMD. Like if some really talented tv writers who love the show replaced all the current writers/hacks...

A sincere, no-holds-barred, full-throated apology from Oliver to Felicity would still go a long way with me. No more of Guggie's "he had to" bullshit. And Oliver, etc., acknowledging, onscreen, that BM is a foul, lying, money-grubbing hag who slept with her good friend's boyfriend, not the Virgin Mother. I'd also need Thea to apologize, very sincerely. Then I'd need all the current shit writers to stay far away forever, bc otherwise I'd be just waiting for them to screw it up again.

(Going forward I'd need him to dump Susan and visibly/overtly pine for Felicity for a few episodes, AND do something to show her that he's working to regain her trust and won't ever cut her out of decisions that affect them both again.)

That would be nice. But I've been hoping for an apology from Oliver ever since the end of 408 when Felicity gave him the speech about being a teammate and he just cuddled up to her and I've come to accept that it's just not going to happen. 

Ever since the break-up, all I've wanted is to see them find their way back to each other onscreen and get back together at least a few episodes before a season finale/hiatus so that the writers would have to write the beginning of their relationship and not just skip it with a time jump, like they did 323-401.

[calliope1975]

While I'd love an apology and a real hashing out of their problems, at this point I'd be fine if they got back together and never mentioned the spawn or the breakup or the temp LI's ever again. They're hack writers so anything they try to do to fix it will inevitably make it worse. I just want to get back to mutual heart eyes and snoogling so they can kick villains' asses together. 

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

While I'd love an apology and a real hashing out of their problems, at this point I'd be fine if they got back together and never mentioned the spawn or the breakup or the temp LI's ever again. They're hack writers so anything they try to do to fix it will inevitably make it worse. I just want to get back to mutual heart eyes and snoogling so they can kick villains' asses together. 

Yep, I'm ready for this separation deal to be over. I've given up on a satisfactory reconcilliation, it's just not in the writers' wheelhouse. But unless they're looking for reasons for a break up, they do well writing Oliver and Felicity together. I randomly thought of this scene earlier today. I want stuff like this again.

[kismet]

All of you guys made good and valid points about why FS does not need to be a masked hero, esp the BC.

The point of my post was that none of that stops TPTB from throwing one on her and slapping her with the title because it's convenient and cost effective. TPTB are not necessarily focused on character growth and development. They look at other data. And if combining FS, a mask and the BC title seems like it might be profitable - they'll do it. And there is an argument to be made that it could be profitable.

And frankly, MG seems to be focusing on newer projects, so I wonder just how long he'll actually have much say at Arrow either by choice or circumstance. So his pledge means nothing to me. Also MG changes his mind all the time, so his opinion is usually worthless to bank on.

As for BMD, I agree with @AyChihuahua, they have no idea why it's broken & horrible in the first place. I have no hope or speculation that they will ever be able to repair the damage of BMD. They may heal the wound by shear luck or time, but the scar will always be very visible.

[lexicon]

20 hours ago, Chaser said:

I was pretty happy with 4x18 personally.

I was happy with the promise of what 4.18 would bring but the execution sucked and ever since LL died they just wont SHUT UP about her.

It's been retcon city...blah blah blah LL this...blah blah LL that....

Add the multiple random post death appearances and the whole WWLD of it all and I'm just shaking my head at poor naive pre-4.18 me who thought my suffering was almost over.

Spoiler

Now there's a new BC on the horizon, whose imminent appearance is being heralded with pronouncements of "it's hard to GA without BC" from on high and I'm losing hope that this show will ever return to a focus on what made me fall in love with it.

Edited January 18, 2017 by kariyaki
Added spoiler tags