Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Starfish35]

I don't remember them saying it was a lighter story - I just remember that they said they didn't have the time in season two to do it justice. Which made me think it was more of a big deal - a major arc type of story.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Starfish35

[HighwayFlower]

I read a on a lot of fan forums how Laurel would make a good Manhunter, but has anyone from the show ever been asked about it or mentioned it? They can't be blind to the idea.

[Morrigan2575]

It was both. Matt Mittovitch (sp?) had the information about it being to big and they had to push it back and that the EPS sounded really sorry about that.

Then there was a later interview where they mentioned the lightness/darkness stuff...I think

Edited July 8, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Then there was a later interview where they mentioned the lightness/darkness stuf...I think

Ah ok. I didn't remember that.

[JenMD]

While I'm interested in seeing her mother, I think I'd rather have the dad question settled once and for all. As long as her dad is still an unknown, people will continue to speculate that it's anyone from Robert Queen to....whoever the Big Bad of the season is. (The insistence last season that Ivo was going to be Felicity's father ended up getting on my nerves a bit.)

 

 

This.  I don't think I can make it through another season of random speculation that every male over the age of 45 is Felicity's long lost father (see: Count Vertigo spec already gearing up).  The Ivo spec drove me up the wall because no matter how it was spun, it was so contrived and then ultimately baseless when he was killed with nary a hint of having left a daughter behind. 

 

I suspect they'll stick with the Daddy theme they've got going for S3 and we'll get a Daddy Smoak, I'd love him to be a good guy who left his family because they were under threat or whatever and they'd be safer without him and of course, he shows up and his baby girl is knee deep in the vigilante business.  But he'll probably be a villain, whatever.  What I would prefer they avoid is he has any past connection to Oliver, hero or villain.  That's my ultimate hope.

 

But a trip to Vegas to see Mom sounds like fun, too!

[Password]

I would actually prefer if he was just a dead beat dad. Sometimes men just leave. We can see how Felicity reacts to that.

[KirkB]

We could get both. Maybe Mom calls Felicity (who brings Oliver and Diggle along) because Dad is in trouble (again) or if he is a bad guy, is causing trouble the Arrow will need to stop.

[Sunshine]

I just figure we are getting Felicity growing up without a father as a reason for Oliver to be conflicted over whether or not he should be a part of his child's life.  All roads lead to Oliver in this show it seems.  I will be pleasantly surprised if there is more to it than that.

[JayKay]

I hope that the writers don't think that assassinating (arguably continuing to assassinate) Sara's character will make anyone else look better. Anyone. I could see them as justifying it with the idea of Oliver and Sara traveling on opposite trajectories after a few hiccups, but it's bull. As leery as I am about the fate of the Black Canary, destroying the Sara Lance character would be just as damaging for me.

[Sunshine]

I hadn't really thought of opposite trajectories for Oliver and Sarah.  I guess I was just thinking she'd be off doing her own thing (perhaps she and Nyssa would leave the LOA together) and would show up in Starling from time to time.  I figured she would just be more willing to kill than Oliver has become.

[Sakura12]

They shown that us that Sara was always more pragmatic than Oliver, even Island Sara go-to was kill.

 

If they want to make Ra's a badass, there is no way Sara and Nyssa can just leave. I expect Sara to be tortured for her betrayal and be forced back in line with the league. So I think the different aspect of Sara we'll be seeing is dead eyed souless killer. Because you know Laurel has to look like the bestest ever to be the Black Canary, so destroying Sara is the best way to accomplish that. It'll be like look Sara's nothing but a killer so Laurel deserves to steal her name and be the real hero. 

[HighwayFlower]

I don't think Sara ever had a problem killing someone who was threatening her or her family. The LOA was sending her to kill people she didn't know and maybe didnt even know why she was killing. Oliver's no-kill rule seems to think self defense killing is wrong, (as killing Slade would have been IMO) and that's just dumb.

[KirkB]

Malcolm got away because Ra's let him (it was said he regretted it later but I doubt that, because if Ra's changed his mind about Malcolm he would have been dragged back or dead) and Sara was freed by Nyssa, probably the only other person who can release anyone. I doubt Ra's would let her go a second time even if Nyssa asked him to, though it's possible he might release them both for some reason.

[wingster55]

I'm gonna go on another tangent..I don't want Thea to be full on evil. Conflicted at best. If they want to redeem her or have her go back to the good guys they can't take her too far otherwise the redemption may be hard to swallow (for me anyways). 

[VCRTracking]

I wonder who's going to show up during "year 3" of Ollie's stay on the island?

[writersblock51]

I think the overall silence about Laurel's fate of BC or not is being delayed because the showrunners know that it will not be as popular as they'd like.  Sure, there will be some happy people but the majority of reaction will be negative.  And probably loud, or as loud as one gets on the internet.  if they check out this site and others, they know that there are more people leaning towards her becoming Manhunter or nothing at all. 

 

Furthermore, the show may have planned on turning her into BC a year ago, with S2 being Laurel's "island" (I cannot roll my eyes back far enough to express my disgust), but the show also knows that the overall reaction to her island was unimpressed (fans and critics alike).  And that CL was viewed as a very viable BC.  Then add the Olicity stuff.  Now whatever the show had originally planned for KC/LL is not going to work, no matter how much they try to shove that square peg into the round hole. 

 

If the show and network really felt it was going to be a success, I think they'd be sending out bits and pieces, leaking things now and then, by now.   If Laurel as BC is going to be the big news at SDCC, then they are going to see a massive pushback that could seriously affect S3 before it even airs.  And if that's not the big news, then what will be the big thing for Arrow?

[abhi]

Ra's al Ghul will be the big thing for Arrow, I think.

[writersblock51]

I'd love that!

[tv echo]

I know that the EPs want to stay in relatively real time so that's why there's a 5-month time lapse between Season 2 and Season 3.  But it's a fictional TV show and they could've chosen to pick up right after they left Season 2.  Therefore, I can't help worrying that the main reason for that time lapse is to come back with a significantly improved fighting Laurel.

[Morrigan2575]

They have always kept to "real time" or as close as they could, mostly to keep the Starling City/Island story-lines in sync.  1 Year on the Island = 1 Year in Starling City = 1 Season.

[patchwork]

I really don't want Laurel to be BC and frankly I don't want KC to have the screentime but if this is what we're stuck with I'd rather instead of S2 being "Laurel's island" the majority of the show's run is.

 

Black Canary is a hero in her own right, she's not Green Arrow's sidekick but for however long the show runs BC is never going to be the equal she should be because she's not the title character. The best thing might be to make Laurel's storyline be an unfolding hero's journey. We flashback to what made Oliver The Arrow and see her grow into being Black Canary in the present, no insta prowess for Laurel she earns it, and her rogues gallery, the hard way just like he did. 

[KirkB]

I know some of you loathe Laurel but I have a question. Would her becoming the Canary be as hard to accept if it wasn't for Sara? Is this version of Laurel being the Canary the problem, or is it mainly because anyone would falter after following such a good Canary already existing?

[KirkB]

I'm curious. Why is the idea of Thea coming back tougher (or as a real fighter) after five months easier for some people to accept that Laurel doing the same thing in the same amount of time?

[HighwayFlower]

Without Sara, her becoming Canary would still be annoying unless she was giving a REAL "island" or believable path to get there. Making her BC after how awesome Sara is, just makes it worse.

[Velocity23]

Not sure but after Laurel screamed to Sara you stole my life. It just seems now Laurel is stealing everything from Sara if she becomes the BC character and that makes me truly despise Laurel.  And Laurel never has to actualy be responsible for her mistakes, I still cant believe i didn't see any remorse or guilt for killing that cop even if it was in self defense (how many bullets did she put in the guy?), or no repercussion following her blackmail attempts. 

[HighwayFlower]

Thea has anger as her motivation and Malcolm as her teacher/backup. She will be training 24/7 without a pesky day job she blackmailed herself into taking up any time.

Laurel has no believable motivation other then copying her little sister.

[Velocity23]

i would say motivation

[Lisasstar]

Talking with my husband last night about Laurel possibly becoming BC...he said two things that were meaningful. (He is a HUGE comic book fan.) What he said was...this show is called Arrow, it is not about Laurel or Black Canary, it is Oliver's journey, why is Laurel such a main idea on this show (and he thinks it's strange that they didn't call her Dinah from the start if BC was the intent for her from the beginning). Also, he said and I quote " Dinah Lance has years of physical and psychological training toward her journey to Black Canary. Laurel becoming Black Canary on this show with the way they have portrayed her would be an insult to the character of Black Camary and all her fans."

Edited July 15, 2014 by Lisasstar

[tv echo]

Even with five months' full-time training and motivation, Thea should still have nowhere near the level of fighting skill as Oliver or Sara.  There are marital artists who train full-time for years.

 

But she would still be more believable than Laurel.

Edited July 15, 2014 by tv echo

[doesntworkonwood]

For me, personally, we've been shown Thea having the motivation, and moving with her father to learn to be 'tougher'. She has the motivation to become stronger, and she's admitted it. And there's also the fact that by moving with her father, Thea will likely spend most of her time training (as sge doesn't have a job nor will she have other people with her.)

 

Laurel has absolutely no motivation, and it doesn't make any sense for her too with Sarah there. She likely will have little time to train, as she has a full time job and a father to care for. 

 

In both cases, I don't think that it would be realistic for either of the women to have skills that are near Oliver or Sarah's level (and even Diggs) as five months training will have nothing on five years.

[tv echo]

Your husband makes a great point, Lisasstar.  This show is called Arrow.  They should just forget about Black Canary, except for the occasional guest visits by Sara as the Canary.  There's tons of other comic book characters they could explore on the show.  Give Laurel something else to do and, if she's staying on the show, keep her in a secondary or supporting role.

Edited July 15, 2014 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

I didn't like Laurel in S1 but didn't care about her becoming Canary. It was just something I had to accept or walk away from the show if Laurel got too over powering and started making me hate the show.

However, in S2 Laurel in 201-209 was almost a non-entity and I could ignore her in favor of things I like/love (team arrow, teen arrow, Sara/Canary, Island Storyline, Felicity, Olicity, etc).

I said this back in July 2013, when Caity Lotz was announced as Black Canary, I said they better not give me an alternative that I would love and expect me not to hate them taking it away in favor of Laurel. I still stand by that statement.

The show gave me an alternative option, one that has a better backstory, connects with more characters, has better relationships with the characters on the show (Sin, Roy, Oliver, Felicity and Diggle) and one that I actually like.

So yes, a large part of it is Laurel replacing Sara in a position that fits Sara better. There's also the increased screentime for a character I feel sucks the life/joy out of every scene she's in (IMO).

I also can't deal with another season of they're going to kill Sara off to jump start Laurel's journey...any minute now, just you wait Sara has to die...it's depressing and totally destroys any appreciation/enjoyment I might have for the show.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[abhi]

First and foremost, Thea will ultimately become a sidekick to Oliver. Thea is NEVER going to become equal to Oliver in the near future. In the 3rd season, she will most probably play a sidekick to Merlyn and won't go against Oliver one to one.But are we supposed to believe that Laurel can become equal to Oliver in this universe. The difference in their experiences are so huge that entertaining such a concept is not possible for me. 

[Lisasstar]

What does everyone think? Do you think TPTB know how the majority of the viewers feel about Laurel and just don't care, or do you think they are really unaware and oblivious? With all the social media, I cannot believe they don't know that most viewers think Laurel is the one thing that ruins an otherwise great show.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Lisasstar

[tv echo]

I think TPTB know and don't care - unless it affects the show's ratings.  They've got their own ideas for the show and they're going to force-feed them to the viewers (what we need, not what we want, remember?), confident that they'll change minds.

Edited July 15, 2014 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

I'm curious. Why is the idea of Thea coming back tougher (or as a real fighter) after five months easier for some people to accept that Laurel doing the same thing in the same amount of time?

Because Thea would come back in a sidekick role, just like Roy in S2, not much fighting, more training with evil dad on show and most of her role will be about learning, screwing up and growing up. At least that's what I expect, I certainly don't see them having Thea come back in 6 months as a full fledged contender.

I also don't have an alternative, Speedy, or Dark Archer protege that's already been proven better in the role. One that would have to be killed off, maimed or turned evil in order to prop up a character that has not suffered anything that would suggest a move towards hero/villain..etc

However, if Thea comes back after 5 months and can somehow all of a sudden kick Arrow's ass then yeah I'd have a problem with that.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

I know some of you loathe Laurel but I have a question. Would her becoming the Canary be as hard to accept if it wasn't for Sara? Is this version of Laurel being the Canary the problem, or is it mainly because anyone would falter after following such a good Canary already existing?

Speaking for myself only, it's a little of both.

I didn't like Laurel in season one. I've always thought that Katie Cassidy was horribly miscast in the role. Although it wasn't the complete loathing I have for the character now (as I said in another post, it was more like "meh whatever" after season one and after season two it was "hell no").

At the same time, I might have had an easier time with season one Laurel becoming the Canary than I do with season two Laurel and that partially has to do with Sara, and partially has to do with how Laurel herself was written. As far as I am concerned, between the writing and the acting this season, they totally destroyed any chance of me seeing her as a sympathetic character.

But yes, it also has to do with the show showing us a version of a better (IMO) show in the first half of the second season, one where Laurel is not needed at all and the show works better without her, Felicity is a better leading lady, and Sara is a far FAR better Black Canary, and then destroying that because of the need to work Laurel back into the story because comics! And yes, I adore Sara, I think she's an amazing character, and having her on the show and then yanked away just because Laurel MUST be the Black Canary because of her damn name.......it all ramps the bitterness factor up a notch or forty. :(

And, I will confess, if I hadn't been SO convinced that Sara was staying as Black Canary, I might have handled it better. I don't know. But I was. And obviously, I was wrong. :(

ETA: agreed with everything Morrigan2575 said.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Starfish35

[quarks]

Good question.

 

For me it has nothing to do with Sara, or whether or not Katie Cassidy is bulked up/physically trained for the role, or whether five months of training, combined with the fighting we've seen her do a few times in the first season and the first episode of the second season, is enough to justify making her into an action hero. The stunts will be pretty much her stunt person, anyway, and the show has managed to get away with an actor for Roy who has said he doesn't do any of the stunt work, and movies and comic books have historically handwaved the "uh, you've been training two months and you've been able to take over the spaceship? That's remarkable!" idea.   I also, honestly, don't really care if Laurel had an "island" or didn't have an island - but that's mostly because I know a couple of perfectly well adjusted, very happy people who decided to become paramedics and firefighters, jobs I consider heroic. So I don't think you need an island to be heroic.

 

What I need is motivation. Putting on a costume and running out to fight crime without getting some sort of salary for it needs some major motivation, especially if it comes without gaining superpowers. And even superpowers might not be enough - in Spider-Man's origin story, he doesn't immediately start out saying, ooh, now I can stop bad guys! He tries to make money from fighting first, which I think is realistic. Then there's Dazzler, who, ok, was kind of a joke of a character on so, so many levels, but she originally used her mutant powers to liven up her rock concerts. I can't think of comic book examples, but in real life many relatives of murder victims chose to quietly establish charities or work for charities that the victims were interested in instead of fighting crime - granted, some of those charities are anti-gun charities (in the U.S.) but not all of them. My point is that choosing to be a superhero/vigilante shouldn't be an automatic choice. 

 

And that's the problem: even before Sara came back, so far I've seen only four episodes from the first season and four episodes from the second season that have given me any indication whatsoever that hopping into a costume and fighting crime is something that Laurel would even want to do. In the pilot episode, and I am seriously stretching things, she's ok with letting victims keep money illegally obtained by a vigilante.  In episode four, she makes her annoying speech about how she couldn't have obtained the evidence legally blah blah (which also means you can't use it in court Laurel but moving on) and now she's starting to doubt the law.  She backtracks on this at the end of the episode and ends up not working with the Hood for months. In the firefighter episode and the Betrayal episode she realizes that the legal system has failed, so the Hood is the only help. If the show had developed this theme with Laurel, instead of with Felicity, I might have been more supportive - but within a year, Laurel is telling us that the legal system is the only way to go - not just with the Hood/Arrow, but also when chatting with Teen Arrow.

 

Which means I have to skip all the way to Blind Spot before I find another indication that Laurel is interested in this sort of thing - an episode that ends with Laurel shooting someone in the back and losing her job in part because she tried the vigilante method, which should have put her off it for life. Then I have to skip several more episodes to reach Birds of Prey, and there, it more seems envy of Sara than anything, although this episode is also the first episode where Laurel actually does anything heroic, so, kudos. And then I have to go to City of Blood, where Laurel is willing to resort to illegal tactics to expose Blood. The biggest problem for me in that episode was that at no point did I get why Laurel WANTED to help out in the field - rather than asking "hey, is there anything I can help with here?" (like, say, make sure Roy was safe. Just saying, show.)  Or for that matter, running to go warn the DA's office and the cops, which actually would have been useful. And finally, Streets of Frie, where apparently she thinks saving kids from burning buildings is awesome. I think it is too, but that doesn't mean I actually want to do it.

 

So that's my issue. I need to know why a beautiful, intelligent lawyer who has other methods to help people - offering low cost legal services, now working in the DA's office to put criminals away - would want to be out on the streets risking her life to fight crime. I know Oliver's motivation: he originally wanted to carry out his father's mission, and now he wants to use his skills to honor Tommy's memory by helping people. (I also think Oliver just likes to shoot arrows and swing around on ziplines, but that is me fanwanking and is not in the script.)  I know Diggle's motivation: he originally wanted to rein Oliver in, and now wants to help take down criminals.  I know Felicity's motivation: she wanted to save Walter, and then realized she could save other people, and then realized the whole thing was kinda cool.  I know Roy's motivation: he's seen the actual hell of the Glades, and I saw him acting out before this. I know Sara's motivation: atonement. I know Helena's motivation: I'm really, really pissed off and I hate all you people. I know Nyssa's motivation: I am the daughter of Ra's al Ghul and this is what I do plus I am the hottest person in the room, also Isabel is annoying me, throat cut. I know Shado's motivation: she trained as a soldier and wanted to save her father. I know Barry's original motivation: he wants to find out who murdered his parents.

 

And also, pretty much none of these people have alternative training/job skills that would let them do other heroic things. Diggle even complains about his limited job options post military until he joins up with Oliver; Sara flat out tells us in the script that she's having problems finding other jobs because of her lack of training.  Yeah, a lot of them are young enough to go to school and learn medicine/firefighting/whatever, but they have skills now, so...

 

Much of this was covered in about two, three sentences for each character. So it's possible.  But it hasn't been done for Laurel. Every time the show inches towards giving me a reason to think that sure, Laurel might go this path, it backs off by the end of the episode - even in Streets of Fire, where rather than immediately following Sara's example and helping people out of burning buildings or providing first aid or WHATEVER Laurel she just....heads to the police station and watches, and then gets kidnapped.

 

These are not the actions of someone who wants to be a superhero. And you know what? That's ok and even more realistic than anything else on this show. But it's difficult for me not to judge Laurel because she's on the same show with people who are choosing to be heroes, and to believe that Laurel, who has for the most part failed to choose to be a superhero so far, will change and become one just because watching her sister rescue a kid from a burning building is Totes Cool.

Edited July 15, 2014 by quarks

[writersblock51]

1) Laurel being BC, as the show has portrayed the characters.  S1 Laurel had more physical fighting (and shotgun) skills than most women her age, I suppose, so I was prepared to find out that she'd been holding back, that she'd been training on the sly, frustrated by the limits & unbalance of the legal system.  She'd had 5 years to stew.  Early on, I felt it would NOT be a surprise (but would have been to some fans, who didn't read/know the comics) if it turns out she'd created an alter ego as well.  After the club scene with her, Tommy and Oliver, I thought that might have been a glimpse of something more.   And I was OK with it - though I prefered her with Tommy romantically than with Oliver because of a list of reasons.  Even then, I thought she was way too wishy-washy between them.  Strictly speaking about her as BC, though, I kept waiting to see the revelation.

 

Then her mom Dinah showed up, briefly, and I told my non-comic-book husband, Oh, this will be good!  Fully expecting a secret to come from her.  But nothing.

 

So S1 ended the way it did and I was underwhelmed by, annoyed with and outright disliked Laurel.  I wish Tommy had lived instead.  That's how much I was done with her.

 

2) Enter CL as Sara/BC for S2.  Whatever expectations I may have had for a Laurel turned BC were completely overshadowed by CL's Sara - physically, emotionally, backstory-wise, etc.  There was no way I'd be able to take club-fight Laurel over this version now.  Add the inconsistent, wooden, and poorly acted Laurel of S2 and, well, no, no, no.  I disliked Laurel for the entire season save 1 scene (the 'are you kidding me?' awkward dinner).  And that was just the part at the table.  Everything else has been awful.

 

Follow up answer about TPTB - What @tv echo said.

 

I think TPTB know and don't care - unless it affects the show's ratings.  They've got their own ideas for the show and they're going to force-feed them to the viewers (what we need, not what we want, remember?), confident that they'll change minds.

 

This is precisely what I think they feel.

 

@quarks, I agree with every word in your post.  As always, it seems!

[Carrie Ann]

It is sort of baffling that the creators didn't take advantage of the 5-year gap for Laurel's BC journey. She should have been in training that whole time--disillusioned with the legal system along with everything else in the world--maybe with a shady mentor who could have been a future villain and source of conflict between L/O or BC/Arrow. Obviously, there was going to be a five-year differential in skills and strength with her and Oliver--why would they want that? 

 

That's the kind of question I'm trying to figure out--maybe the idea was that Oliver was going to be her mentor, and she'd have a five-season journey toward becoming a vigilante? That's really the only thing I can figure, and it sounds terrible.

 

The other question is what changed between Seasons 1 and 2 in terms of their plans for her. Bringing Sara back was not their original intention, so why make a perfect BC with a perfect origin story, if you're still planning to do that with Laurel, and you know hers will never measure up? I'm not asking that rhetorically. I assume they actually did bring Sara back with a plan in mind other than to cause drama in the Lance family, and I assume that plan had something to do with Laurel's long-term prospects. So now what options are left for Laurel and/or the BC?

 

Option 1: The writers are going to super-fast-forward the training required to become strong and skilled enough to be a superhero, and Laurel will just magically become BC by the end of this season, probably after Sara's death.

 

Option 2: Sara is the BC for the majority run of the show, while Laurel is in a support role OR is primarily an antagonist. Over the course of many seasons, she is training, getting stronger, going outside the law. I could still see the writers getting their way in the end by killing Sara or having her hang up her boots, and actually passing the mantle to Laurel at that point. Boooooo, but at least I wouldn't have to watch it for long. 

 

Option 3: Laurel supports Sara and Oliver, and is training to become a hero this season, but is struck down and KC leaves the show. Laurel's death is further motivation for Sara and Oliver, but maybe they take that motivation in opposite directions--one getting darker, while the other tries to keep them in line.

 

Obviously I don't want Option 1, and I do fear that's the direction we're going, but I'm still willing to hold out hope for Option 2 or 3 because I've been impressed with the writers' willingness to change course in the past. If they don't...well, the BC and Laurel are not the reason I watch this show. So I'll continue to FF her scenes, and if it turns out that it's too much and she really does drag down the whole show for me, then I guess that's where I jump ship.

[dtissagirl]

It is sort of baffling that the creators didn't take advantage of the 5-year gap for Laurel's BC journey. She should have been in training that whole time--disillusioned with the legal system along with everything else in the world--maybe with a shady mentor who could have been a future villain and source of conflict between L/O or BC/Arrow. Obviously, there was going to be a five-year differential in skills and strength with her and Oliver--why would they want that?

 

That is such a great point. What makes me insane is that they apparently realized that they SHOULD HAVE used the 5-year gap to build up a Black Canary, but gave that to Sara instead. And then spent two entire seasons stripping Laurel of any possible motivation to want to become a vigilante. Except now that the magical jacket has been passed on, Laurel can be BC, okay then, show, if we're going with the Insane Troll Logic kind of story plotting.

 

All through season one I kept wondering why wasn't Laurel already in the journey to become BC, and the one reason I can think of is because KC wasn't working for the show the way they wanted her to. The other thing I wondered back then was they were afraid of Canary being more popular than the Hood, or that BC would have better skills than Arrow*, but that went out the window in season two, so I just went back to thinking Laurel is not BC because KC sucks at her job.

 

*Little comics talk:

in many versions, not only Dinah is super great at martial arts, but she's better than Oliver at it. Seriously, Dinah would WIPE THE FLOOR WITH OLIVER in a fight. And comics!Oliver gets a kick out of that too. Some of the DC animated series reflect this pretty well. Arrow's Oliver has the wrong sense of humor for that to ever work on the show, unfortunately.

Edited July 15, 2014 by dancingnancy

[statsgirl]

I know some of you loathe Laurel but I have a question. Would her becoming the Canary be as hard to accept if it wasn't for Sara? Is this version of Laurel being the Canary the problem, or is it mainly because anyone would falter after following such a good Canary already existing?

I think a superhero needs certain attributes to be a superhero -- genuine concern for the welfare of other and wanting to make the world a better place for them (as opposed to him or herself which is what a supervillain has); a willingness to take risks for other and to be hurt in the process; and a higher morality than othe people.  Laurel fails in all three.  It's not just because she's been a stickfigure all s2 or that CL did such a good job that I can't see her as a viable BC.

 

I'm curious. Why is the idea of Thea coming back tougher (or as a real fighter) after five months easier for some people to accept that Laurel doing the same thing in the same amount of time?

Anger and motivation, as others have said.  Also she's got Malcolm Merlyn, with his skills and resources training her 24/7 while Laurel still has a day job, a father to nurse back to health, and a life. 

And Thea will have longer than five months because she's going to be missing at the start of the season.

 

Option 2: Sara is the BC for the majority run of the show, while Laurel is in a support role OR is primarily an antagonist. Over the course of many seasons, she is training, getting stronger, going outside the law. I could still see the writers getting their way in the end by killing Sara or having her hang up her boots, and actually passing the mantle to Laurel at that point. Boooooo, but at least I wouldn't have to watch it for long.

I can fanwank that, that after several years Sara is the one who

ends up in a wheelchair as Oracle

and Laurel - finally - takes on her BC wig and outfit.  But unless KC seriously ups her game as Laurel, I doubt I'll be watching.

[icandigit]

Wasn't there a thing with Thea having archery trophies on her mantle. Now she goes to train with a master archer. With Laurel besides the Sara thing.She doesn't have good chemistry with  team arrow. I don't want to watch that.Team arrow is my happy place.

[Sakura12]

How can Sara

be Oracle? She has medical science knowledge not computer science. 

 

I have feeling that they will be killing Sara off this season, by destroying her character to make look Laurel look better. Then when she dies because she was helping Oliver that will give Laurel the motivation to put on her outfit while also giving a reason for Nyssa to blame Oliver for Sara death bringing Ra's al Ghul in to come after Oliver and team. 

[HighwayFlower]

If that happens I'll be rooting for Ra's al Ghul.

[statsgirl]

How can Sara

be Oracle? She has medical science knowledge not computer science. 

She's got lab tech training as Ivo's assistant.  She's smart, she can pick up the computer thing if  she can't be out there fighting any more, and I think that's the only way they could make Laurel BC, is if Sara is still alive but unable to do it.  But hopefully it's won't come to that.

 

I don't think they're going to kill off Sara, not because this show doesn't kill beloved characters (it does, one a year) but because making Laurel BC is already iffy because so many people don't want it.  (One of the comic book bloggers said he was going to drop the show if they do.)  I think that's why they didn't kill Sara last season, because Laurel wouldn't have survived it.

[foreverevolving]

I'm curious. Why is the idea of Thea coming back tougher (or as a real fighter) after five months easier for some people to accept that Laurel doing the same thing in the same amount of time?

@quarks pretty much nailed it

 

So that's my issue. I need to know why a beautiful, intelligent lawyer who has other methods to help people - offering low cost legal services, now working in the DA's office to put criminals away - would want to be out on the streets risking her life to fight crime. I know Oliver's motivation: he originally wanted to carry out his father's mission, and now he wants to use his skills to honor Tommy's memory by helping people. (I also think Oliver just likes to shoot arrows and swing around on ziplines, but that is me fanwanking and is not in the script.)  I know Diggle's motivation: he originally wanted to rein Oliver in, and now wants to help take down criminals.  I know Felicity's motivation: she wanted to save Walter, and then realized she could save other people, and then realized the whole thing was kinda cool.  I know Roy's motivation: he's seen the actual hell of the Glades, and I saw him acting out before this. I know Sara's motivation: atonement. I know Helena's motivation: I'm really, really pissed off and I hate all you people. I know Nyssa's motivation: I am the daughter of Ra's al Ghul and this is what I do plus I am the hottest person in the room, also Isabel is annoying me, throat cut. I know Shado's motivation: she trained as a soldier and wanted to save her father. I know Barry's original motivation: he wants to find out who murdered his parents.

 

so yea pretty much all of that..

Edited July 15, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Sakura12]

I'm inclined to think that Sara is not going to be killed but putting that aside, I don't see a scenario where Ra's al Ghul would retaliate against Oliver and Co for her death.  I can't even see Nyssa blaming them.  Sara has made her affection for Team Arrow pretty well known and vice versa so I can't see how Nyssa or anyone could think Oliver is responsible for a choice Sara clearly made.

 

Like Slade blaming Oliver for killing Shado instead of Ivo. That happened, so I don't trust the writers to make a legitimate reason for Ra's to come after Arrow. I can see them just repeating that outcome and also having Oliver blame himself for Sara's death. Nyssa kidnapped Sara's mother when Sara refused to go back, then when she thought Sara killed herself she was going to kill her family. So I can definitely see a situation where Sara went off with Oliver, gets killed and Nyssa retaliates by going after Oliver and getting her father to help. 

Edited July 16, 2014 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

In spite of my speculation that Sara is dying, if they are really trying to make Ra's the Big Bad for the season I think they would kill off Nyssa rather than Sara. As Oliver told Diggle last season, if she dies, Ra's would burn the city to the ground. I don't see that kind of motivation coming into play for Sara's death.

One scenario I could possibly see is Sara being forced to kill Nyssa to protect someone else that Nyssa is determined to kill. That could create some complicated fallout for the season.

[Sakura12]

Nyssa is in love with Sara, if Sara dies that would upset her greatly especially if it's when she was with Oliver. Ra's would not like his daughter hurting like that and would gladly help her take out the person she feels is responsible, while also going after the guy that may be stopping his assassins from killing the people they were hired to kill.