S09.E09: The Longest Labor

[lexington11]

On 3/20/2018 at 5:03 PM, xwordfanatik said:

Good to know.  I'm not quite 50 years married, but it's pretty close!

LOL, yes, wasn't Janelle's bathroom clutter off-putting?  I wonder if Robyn cleans her 3-something facilities, or if she delegates that to Mindi?

Speaking of Mindi, does anyone but me wonder if they're including her as a bridesmaid in every wedding, to get the male attendants to notice her?  Surely there's got to be some reason why both Madison and Mykelti used her instead of their own sisters?  

And speaking of Mykelti, I'm already picturing the (puke-inducing) moment if she and FT decide to ever reproduce. Magazine/birth story rights being sold to the highest bidder, baby piñatas in the bathroom, where there will already be a street taco stand, with 10 tacos per spectator, and any other tacky Mexican thing FT will insist on throwing in there.

[Kohola3]

And a mariachi band in the corner of the bathroom during the delivery.  Baby must hear Mexican music at the moment of birth.  None of that dull white people stuff.

[neh]

8 hours ago, lexington11 said:

And speaking of Mykelti, I'm already picturing the (puke-inducing) moment if she and FT decide to ever reproduce. Magazine/birth story rights being sold to the highest bidder, baby piñatas in the bathroom, where there will already be a street taco stand, with 10 tacos per spectator, and any other tacky Mexican thing FT will insist on throwing in there.

The way Tony looked when Maddie's birthing clips were shown at the Tell All, I think that Tony and Mykelti will have a hospital birth.  Tony is going to need lots and lots of drugs to get through it!

[Sandy W]

6 minutes ago, neh said:

The way Tony looked when Maddie's birthing clips were shown at the Tell All, I think that Tony and Mykelti will have a hospital birth.  Tony is going to need lots and lots of drugs to get through it!

I hope that they would spare us the sight of FT engaging in skin to skin bonding with newborn.

[neh]

25 minutes ago, Sandy W said:

I hope that they would spare us the sight of FT engaging in skin to skin bonding with newborn.

I couldn't figure out what the deal was with the lack of clothes in the bedroom scene. Thank you for the info.  It still seems strange to me though.

[Sandy W]

10 minutes ago, neh said:

I couldn't figure out what the deal was with the lack of clothes in the bedroom scene. Thank you for the info.  It still seems strange to me though.

I first heard of this about 30 years ago.  It seems to make little difference in closeness to father, millions of babies were born back in the day and fathers only viewed them through nursery glass windows for the first 5-7 days until they came home from hospital.

[AZChristian]

Just now, Sandy W said:

I first heard of this about 30 years ago.  It seems to make little difference in closeness to father, millions of babies were born back in the day and fathers only viewed them through nursery glass windows for the first 5-7 days until they came home from hospital.

That was my first thought, too.  How on earth has the population grown for centuries without audiences in the birthing room, skin-to-skin bonding with fathers, grandfathers giving instructions to fathers ("Get down here, and hold your hands like this.  The baby will be more slippery than you expect."), giving birth/laboring in bathtubs?

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, neh said:

Tony is going to need lots and lots of drugs to get through it!

Or lots and lots of tacos.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, Sandy W said:

I first heard of this about 30 years ago.  It seems to make little difference in closeness to father, millions of babies were born back in the day and fathers only viewed them through nursery glass windows for the first 5-7 days until they came home from hospital.

I'm all for progress and couples bonding with the baby, but I think a lot of this birthing stuff is bull. I don't think it would make one bit of difference to the baby if Dad has his shirt on or off, and it shouldn't make any difference to the father either. 

[lexington11]

5 hours ago, Sandy W said:

I hope that they would spare us the sight of FT engaging in skin to skin bonding with newborn.

Please let that be true. I really don't have the intestinal fortitude to see a shirtless FT without having a bucket close by, and I know I'm not alone here.

[Natalie68]

On 3/20/2018 at 7:30 AM, AZChristian said:

I thought her problem was in finding pajama bottoms that were long enough . . . VS was the only place that carried them.  To which I can only respond, "If you are a poor single mother, and your pj bottoms are too short, WEAR SOCKS."

Or leg warmers!  Those can be purchased super cheaply!

[Natalie68]

On 3/20/2018 at 10:45 AM, AZChristian said:

A word of experience about VS.  I was looking for a nice nightie for our 50th wedding anniversary a few years ago.  I went into two different VS stores at two different malls.  I am old, have gray hair, am a little pudgy (but not morbidly obese).  I could not get a salesperson to acknowledge my existence, even though I was the only customer in the store and there were salespeople wandering around (and busily ignoring me).  So I took my credit card (with a large limit) to another store where I could actually get waited on.  And I wrote a note to VS headquarters and got an apology.  But I haven't been back in one since.  Maybe someday when I'm bored, I'll meander into one to see if they've changed.

So I guess Robyn hasn't ever used the restroom at Janelle's house?

I worked at VS over one Xmas and was about 15 years older than the average sales person.  I was the only one that would engage with customers.  Helped all the husbands that came in etc.  I asked why and they said they really hated helping customers and would rather fold stuff and do the cash register.  Fine by me.  I got tired of folding panties a million times in a 4 hour shift.  They also liked to talk smack about customers over their Madonna headsets.  I lasted about 3 weeks.

My guess is she had to buy these frocks at VS because they gave her credit.  She could have found what she wanted at a Walmart or Target for a lot less but she probably had no cash.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Natalie68

[Gothish520]

20 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

I worked at VS over one Xmas and was about 15 years older than the average sales person.  I was the only one that would engage with customers.  Helped all the husbands that came in etc.  I asked why and they said they really hated helping customers and would rather fold stuff and do the cash register.  Fine by me.  I got tired of folding panties a million times in a 4 hour shift.  They also liked to talk smack about customers over their Madonna headsets.  I lasted about 3 weeks.

My guess is she had to buy these frocks at VS because they gave her credit.  She could have found what she wanted at a Walmart or Target for a lot less but she probably had no cash.

As someone who has foolishly made retail their career, I can attest that for some us, those feelings are real. Though for me, I'd rather help customers on the floor than ring at the register, which I find to be pure torture - I hate being trapped behind a counter. But straightening and putting out merchandise is my thing. We used to joke at my old store that we could get a lot of work done if it wasn't for those darn customers. The obvious joke being, if it wasn't for the customers we would eventually cease to exist - they are actually why we are here, after all!

[Natalie68]

On 4/21/2018 at 12:25 PM, Gothish520 said:

As someone who has foolishly made retail their career, I can attest that for some us, those feelings are real. Though for me, I'd rather help customers on the floor than ring at the register, which I find to be pure torture - I hate being trapped behind a counter. But straightening and putting out merchandise is my thing. We used to joke at my old store that we could get a lot of work done if it wasn't for those darn customers. The obvious joke being, if it wasn't for the customers we would eventually cease to exist - they are actually why we are here, after all!

I just didn't have the patience to fold it all and see someone come by and destroy the nicely laid out display.  But I will sell stuff!  The register was torture for me as well.  I applaud your patience for not wanting to heave those clothes at someone who just destroyed the display!  A good sales person is rare these days.  

[Gothish520]

4 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

I just didn't have the patience to fold it all and see someone come by and destroy the nicely laid out display.  But I will sell stuff!  The register was torture for me as well.  I applaud your patience for not wanting to heave those clothes at someone who just destroyed the display!  A good sales person is rare these days.  

Lol thank you, and yes it's very aggravating when someone messes up what you just finished straightening! 

The most annoying thing I ever saw was one time when I was standing near a main aisle cash register and suddenly clothes just started flying into the aisle several feet away...upon further investigation, it turned out that a kid had climbed onto one of the display tables and started throwing the clothes off the table...all while his mother shopped a few feet away from him. Grrrrr.

[Natalie68]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

Lol thank you, and yes it's very aggravating when someone messes up what you just finished straightening! 

The most annoying thing I ever saw was one time when I was standing near a main aisle cash register and suddenly clothes just started flying into the aisle several feet away...upon further investigation, it turned out that a kid had climbed onto one of the display tables and started throwing the clothes off the table...all while his mother shopped a few feet away from him. Grrrrr.

Oh man!  I had to intervene once at a store I was shopping at when a little kid was swinging a belt around and nearly hit me in the head.  Grandma was watching and said nothing.  I told that kid if he hits me or anyone else he would be in trouble.  I think I scared him.  I normally would let it be but not when I am the one potentially getting beaned in the head.  Sales people are SOOOOO underpaid.  

[xtwheeler]

On 4/20/2018 at 8:50 AM, Gothish520 said:

I'm all for progress and couples bonding with the baby, but I think a lot of this birthing stuff is bull. I don't think it would make one bit of difference to the baby if Dad has his shirt on or off, and it shouldn't make any difference to the father either. 

There's reams and reams of evidence supporting the importance of skin-to-skin contact for newborns, particularly medically vulnerable ones. In particular it assists them with being able to regulate their own body temperatures much more quickly and consistently, which is quite a hurdle for many preterm babies. For healthy term babies, establishing a reliable body temperature sooner means a medical all-clear sooner from your doc/midwife, which has its benefits. It also helps mum's pain regulation and milk production. Emotional bonding regulates and normalizes hormones of mom, dad, and baby alike, as well as starts syncing their sleep schedules. It isn't just crunchy nonsense. 

However, I, too, don't want to see it carried out by any of these particular idiots on my TV. 

[Kohola3]

Da

1 hour ago, xtwheeler said:

Emotional bonding regulates and normalizes hormones of mom, dad, and baby alike...

Dad's have pregnancy hormones?  That need regulation?  Would love to see some reliable scientific evidence on that one. 

I can certainly see that bonding with mom and skin contact with any human would help with temperature regulation.  But the species has managed to move on quite nicely without this for millions of years.  Men went out and killed the mastadon, bear, deer, sirloin steak from the supermarket while mom hauled the kid around. 

It sounds a little too much like New Age hoeey to me.  And FT without a shirt would sear my eyeballs.

[Tabbygirl521]

Maybe it helps regulates the dad’s stress hormones? People tend to be pretty whooped up after witnessing or participating in a birth. The old days of dad not being there and having to see the baby through the nursery window were just sad IMO. 

I imagine that, just on a practical level, skin-to-skin feels so much better to the newborn’s tender skin, too. 

[Kohola3]

13 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Maybe it helps regulates the dad’s stress hormones?

But what's that got to do with the baby?  And stress hormones rapidly decrease as the stressful situation is resolved. 

Again, I'd need to see some scientific peer-reviewed papers before I'd believe any of this.

[Gothish520]

4 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

There's reams and reams of evidence supporting the importance of skin-to-skin contact for newborns, particularly medically vulnerable ones. In particular it assists them with being able to regulate their own body temperatures much more quickly and consistently, which is quite a hurdle for many preterm babies. For healthy term babies, establishing a reliable body temperature sooner means a medical all-clear sooner from your doc/midwife, which has its benefits. It also helps mum's pain regulation and milk production. Emotional bonding regulates and normalizes hormones of mom, dad, and baby alike, as well as starts syncing their sleep schedules. It isn't just crunchy nonsense. 

However, I, too, don't want to see it carried out by any of these particular idiots on my TV. 

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

But what's that got to do with the baby?  And stress hormones rapidly decrease as the stressful situation is resolved. 

Again, I'd need to see some scientific peer-reviewed papers before I'd believe any of this.

I heartily agree @Kohola3.

This was something that is purportedly beneficial for premature/low birth weight babies, especially home births and those without access to proper medical care/equipment. But there is also a concern about the potential harm it can cause - I found this article interesting:

https://thescientificparent.org/recent-reports-of-skin-to-skin-benefits-fail-to-mention-key-infant-safety-risks/

As with many things that "new wave" parents and so-called parenting experts tout, there may be some benefits, but the evidence is mostly anecdotal, and the benefits for otherwise healthy babies and parents may be minor at best. 

For instance, "establishing a reliable body temperature sooner" - how much sooner? Five minutes? 20 minutes? Three hours?

Where are these reams and reams of evidence published? A Google search turned up plenty of articles that pretty much said the same things, without offering any actual scientifc data to confirm the claims.

[Sandy W]

2 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Maybe it helps regulates the dad’s stress hormones? People tend to be pretty whooped up after witnessing or participating in a birth. The old days of dad not being there and having to see the baby through the nursery window were just sad IMO. 

I imagine that, just on a practical level, skin-to-skin feels so much better to the newborn’s tender skin, too. 

But wouldn't there be the possibility of the negative effect of the dad's stress hormones transferring to the newborn?

I'm sure that skin to skin bonding is beneficial when a parent is awake and alert, but wouldn't prolonged exposure in this manner negate the studies that claim that infants should not sleep in a tummy down position?

[Fosca]

The "not sleeping tummy down" is to reduce the chance of the infant suffocating in pillows and bedclothes and stuffed animals and suchlike in the crib.  I doubt that will happen with a baby on someone's chest.

[Absolom]

41 minutes ago, Fosca said:

I doubt that will happen with a baby on someone's chest.

Yes, infants have suffocated this way especially very young ones.

[Fosca]

I looked it up, and what I found is that this could be a problem with newborns who are sedated and/or cosleeping with the parents, but I couldn't find any actual numbers.  Were they sleeping with the baby, or sitting with it while the parent was awake?  The latter would seem to be pretty much safe, particularly with the parent paying attention to the infant.

[Absolom]

I don't have numbers, but I've seen reports and had a co-worker's baby smother while breast feeding.  The mother didn't realize her breast had blocked the baby's nose.  I think it happens more when a parent is holding the baby and falls asleep. 

[Joan of Argh]

On 3/12/2018 at 2:17 PM, NoWhammies said:

I think they should name the next kid Fuller.

Lol I thought the same thing... 

I'm sorry but "Axel Brush" is such a dumb name  🙄