S04.E15: Enter Flashtime

[colorbars]

2 hours ago, doram said:

He's training a girl.

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And maybe I'm reaching but with the promo (and spoilers I already knew), I felt it was pretty obviously Earth-3's Iris.

Doesn't Iris just get her speed from

Spoiler

a meta-of-the-week that switches her DNA with Barry's? I don't think it has anything to do with Jay.

 

I do have to think the emphasis on who he's training is going to mean something going forward. The reaction to girl was weird, considering it's not like they don't already know a girl speedster who is protecting another earth (she was even in this episode), so I can only assume they wanted to make a big deal out of Jay training someone else.

[Mellowyellow]

Is it bad acting or is the mystery waitress looking more sinister in the last scene?

[Primal Slayer]

6 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

It was an ok episode, but the CGI of Barry running down the street and in the speedforce was so cheesy -- it looked really cheap.

I didn't understand that choice. He was running so slow that it could've been Grant himself doing it.

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is it bad acting or is the mystery waitress looking more sinister in the last scene?

I'm prettysure they wanted it like that to kee people guessing.

[cambridgeguy]

I don't know why Barry was SO insistent on not using time travel in this situation.  Sure, Flashpoint was a major screwup but that's because he went back more than 10 years to save one person for understandable but ultimately selfish reasons.  I guess he forgot about how going back about a day saved everyone when Weather Wizard and Vandal Savage did their thing. 

The Speed Force is also pretty stupid if that ball continues to convince it that Barry's still there.  I guess it doesn't want to take the form of recurring characters and have a chat?

[Kate45]

11 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

I don't know why Barry was SO insistent on not using time travel in this situation.  Sure, Flashpoint was a major screwup but that's because he went back more than 10 years to save one person for understandable but ultimately selfish reasons.  I guess he forgot about how going back about a day saved everyone when Weather Wizard and Vandal Savage did their thing. 

The Speed Force is also pretty stupid if that ball continues to convince it that Barry's still there.  I guess it doesn't want to take the form of recurring characters and have a chat?

I took this episode to mean that the Speed Force wasn't "tricked". It released him. 

[Starry]

I don’t know what to think about the last scene. If Mystery Girl is indeed

Spoiler

Dawn Allen

I hope they didn’t make her evil!

I am no fan of Harry but his last scene with Jesse was touching. The show does better when it focuses on emotions and character moments.

It was good to have Jesse and especially Jay back. I have missed them. Loved all the Westallen scenes. They were so sweet cuddling on the bed  ❤️

Poor Iris can’t catch a break. If she’s not in STAR Labs she’s just a "useless love interest", if she’s there she’s taking away from the scientists (how??). It seems to me that if a character is in STEM he/she can have the answer to every scientific problem and no-one will bat an eye*, Iris uses a computer and pieces info together and she’s overstepping and sidelining Cisco/Caitlin.  

*Caitlin ever-changing fields of specialization come to mind.

Iris’ blog used to be a source of info but then they used Cisco and STAR Labs to track down metas. That took away from Iris’ contributions. Cisco is one of my favorite characters but he, Caitlin and Harry shouldn’t be used to dumb Barry down so STAR Labs can stay relevant. This happens too often so if Barry and Iris, the LEADS of the show are perceived to take away from supporting characters I am all for it.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Starry

[sarthaz]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

I don't know why Barry was SO insistent on not using time travel in this situation.  Sure, Flashpoint was a major screwup but that's because he went back more than 10 years to save one person for understandable but ultimately selfish reasons.  I guess he forgot about how going back about a day saved everyone when Weather Wizard and Vandal Savage did their thing. 

The Speed Force is also pretty stupid if that ball continues to convince it that Barry's still there.  I guess it doesn't want to take the form of recurring characters and have a chat?

Can't save thousands/millions of people from nuclear fallout, because Diggle's kid may swap genders again!

[phoenics]

14 hours ago, WindofChange said:

I'm all for Iris getting her due, but not really at the cost of her taking away from other characters. Instead of building a niche of her own within the team she's kind of taking from other characters which I find really annoying because Cisco is my fave... Wish the show could have a better balance considering Iris gets to shine in the next episode they should've let Cisco shine in this episode.

But like I said we can all agree to disagree lol

 

Well then maybe you could turn your attention to Ralph because he's the real reason why Cait/Cisco have been sidelined.  Iris isn't getting more screentime than she's gotten in the past.  Also, Iris is 2nd billed on this show.  In S1 and S2, Caitlin got more screentime than Iris - and it was WAY more screentime.  So did Cisco.  This season, Iris isn't really getting more - Ralph is.

Blaming Iris for this just feels like people are focusing on the wrong thing.  As the 2nd billed actress on the show, Iris SHOULD be getting more screentime than the other supporting characters - she's at least part of Flash canon and integral to flash mythology.  

Also, CP is billed 2nd.

I wish the writers hadn't sidelined Iris so long - all it did was make people feel her lack of screentime was legitimate when it never was.

Edited March 7, 2018 by phoenics

[Katsullivan]

7 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I wish the writers hadn't sidelined Iris so long - all it did was make people feel her lack of screentime was legitimate when it never was.

The Iris resentment started from the moment Candice Patton was cast, before an episode of the show had ever aired. While I'm sure a lot of people genuinely feel surprised that she's getting so much screentime after being sidelined for so long, a great deal of people would still resent her screentime even if she had been front and centre from the beginning. 

[phoenics]

Just now, Katsullivan said:

The Iris resentment started from the moment Candice Patton was cast, before an episode of the show had ever aired. While I'm sure a lot of people genuinely feel surprised that she's getting so much screentime after being sidelined for so long, a great deal of people would still resent her screentime even if she had been front and centre from the beginning. 

Agreed - and honestly a lot of the "Iris should just go back to being a journalist" and the like are really just attempts to go back to when she WAS sidelined, imo.

This series of articles about how the fandom treats Iris sums up my feelings - especially about how fandom keeps moving the goalposts where Iris is concerned.  This author has several articles that break this down extremely well and traces much of it from a racially problematic place:

http://www.withanaccent.com/2018/02/18/not-just-otp-fan-loves-black-woman/3/

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

Agreed - and honestly a lot of the "Iris should just go back to being a journalist" and the like are really just attempts to go back to when she WAS sidelined, imo.

This series of articles about how the fandom treats Iris sums up my feelings - especially about how fandom keeps moving the goalposts where Iris is concerned.  This author has several articles that break this down extremely well and traces much of it from a racially problematic place:

http://www.withanaccent.com/2018/02/18/not-just-otp-fan-loves-black-woman/3/

That's a great article and I never thought about how some white people like black-centered shows or movies because they don't take anything away from white characters.

Part of the opposition to Iris in the beginning was fans upset that Wally West, who was the Flash most of them grew up with would be black.

For me just as they made ruined Laurel Lance by making the Arrow version like Rachel Dawes, the worst character from the Nolan Batman movies, they made Iris basically Mary Jane from Raimi's Spider-Man movies with some Lois Lane but like the comic book, Iris is a watered down Lois. MJ was the crush Peter needed to win and she had to fall for his superhero identity first and then learn to love the real him and.....*bleargh*. Dunst's MJ was also a character which got more tiresome as the series went on, and was dull compared to the vivacious comic book version. I think Iris as an individual fared better but still seemed mismatch with Barry, because she is so much hotter. Seeing her and Eddie, I thought "Well that makes much more sense." Barry has always worshipped Iris and I guess I needed to see her feel just as strongly about him(which was not easy considering the dumb things Barry has done over the series)

They finally reached a point where I buy Westallen as a couple. They're not my favorite fictional pairing at the moment but I like them.

Edited March 7, 2018 by VCRTracking

[sarthaz]

I'm sure there's a racial component to Iris hate, because when isn't there a racial component to anything, but I do see where people are coming from.  The writers have done a shitty job with her character.  I root for Iris, largely because I think CP is a brilliant actor, and she's the only one who consistently is able to evoke any emotional response from me as the show falls deeper and deeper into absurdity.  But the evolution of her character has been weird and clunky.  And I don't have a problem with her running command central at Team Flash, except that it feels so forced.  It's so obviously "we don't know what to do with Iris, so we'll have her do this".  And I probably care about it more because I like Iris so much.  I couldn't give two shits what they do with Caitlin or Wally or Jesse, because they're totally useless to me.  I'm cool with Iris being in every scene and saving the day every week -- I just wish they could find a way to do it that wasn't so clunky.  That said, this particular episode felt natural to me.  She had a good idea borne out of her own personal experience on the show.  It made sense, and I bought it, and as per usual with Iris, I felt feelings, because she's awesome.

[Rachel RSL]

I swear I'm an intelligent person so I don't know why this show always confuses me. So, Barry stole the thingamajig that was tricking the speed force into thinking he was there....did he throw it back into the speed force and I just didn't notice? Or is there now nothing in the speed force? And if there's nothing.....??? There has to be something in there or the speed force goes all wonky, right?

Secondly, Flash time confuses me. I understand that the speedsters can zip around so fast that they can get to places and do things before other people even have time to move. But how do they have such long conversations in Flash time? Physically moving makes sense but shouldn't conversations happen at normal speed, even in Flash time? This show makes my brain hurt.

I would be happy if we never saw Jessie again. She's dead to me ever since she dumped Wally via a cube delivered by her father. There's nothing wrong with breaking up with someone you're no longer interested in but that's like the Flash version of dumping someone via text.

[Kate45]

I loved this episode! For me, it ranks as one of the best episodes of the series. I was really nice that Barry was able to be at the center of his own show :)

Todd and Sterling did an amazing job with presenting plausible ideas for why the other solutions and powers didn't work. Please keep this up, show! Because knocking Cisco out each week is a stupid move. 

I also love that Iris was able to show her great critical thinking skills to help Barry carry out the best solution for this nuclear situation. Her putting those pieces together made perfect sense. She would have relived that night when Barry was taken by the speed force many times, so she know how powerful it is. She also heard Barry go over the solutions that he tried and that ultimately failed. Since she was able to still think clearly (and without being drained like Barry), she was able to put the pieces together. But, I am totally taking this as the speed force knowing that Barry is not trapped. It never made sense to me that no one has understands the speed force, but Barry could made a speed force prison? Yeah, I think the speed force was playing along, but it does things at it's own will.  

Often times this show does too much telling and not enough showing, so for me this episode did a great job of showing WHY Iris is a great leader and why Barry is not the best person for the job. He's great at leading in the field, but his emotions get in the way of his critical thinking skills at times. 

 

3 hours ago, phoenics said:

Well then maybe you could turn your attention to Ralph because he's the real reason why Cait/Cisco have been sidelined.  Iris isn't getting more screentime than she's gotten in the past.  Also, Iris is 2nd billed on this show.  In S1 and S2, Caitlin got more screentime than Iris - and it was WAY more screentime.  So did Cisco.  This season, Iris isn't really getting more - Ralph is.

Blaming Iris for this just feels like people are focusing on the wrong thing.  As the 2nd billed actress on the show, Iris SHOULD be getting more screentime than the other supporting characters - she's at least part of Flash canon and integral to flash mythology.  

Also, CP is billed 2nd.

I wish the writers hadn't sidelined Iris so long - all it did was make people feel her lack of screentime was legitimate when it never was.

Yes, to all of this! Beyond this, I find it funny to see people complaining about Iris "sidelining" Caitlin, when those complaints weren't out there in 2A when Caitlin had less screen time than Patty. 

Here's an interesting note as well: up to this point, Caitlin has had more screen time in season 4 than she had at this point in seasons 1 and 2. In fact, Caitlin had more screen time in season 2 than Iris did, and Iris had just 2 minutes more than Caitlin in season 1. The only reason the disparity wasn't greater in season 2 is because Caitlin was kidnapped for 3 episodes. 

Ralph is the *only* one taking screen time from others, especially Cisco, as he has taken over the "best friend" scenes. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Kate45

[shantown]

20 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

KF asking to save "Caity" was odd but sweet.

Agreed. I'm hoping it's moving towards an end where the two halves are good with each other.

20 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Sick of this mystery girl. And with her sudden sinister turn at the end. She might as well have been twirling her moustache and going "Muahahahahaaa!" It's going to be an even sillier scene when it turns out she's not actually a bad guy, and we're all left wondering why she was acting like Snidely Whiplash.

I can see them continuing to frame her as up to no good, just to have a dramatic twist when she IS good, but that will be really hard to buy. I'm wondering if she ties into time traveling/Flashpoint somehow, or ties into the DeVoe storyline instead. Or is just is kind of a running background plot that hopefully picks up soon?

 

I liked the episode, I thought it was neat that characters come come in to Flashtime for a bit and try to help, but ultimately their bodies couldn't take it for more than a couple minutes. Even the speedsters got tired. Definitely a fun episode!! I liked that everyone got to play a role in getting to the solution, even though poor Joe got left out. Ralph can stay in the basement or wherever he was, the show was better in his absence. 

[tennisgurl]

Whoever wrote this episode, can they write more for the show? This is the best episode they've done in ages, and this is coming from someone has been more positive on this season than a lot of people have. It had a cool premise, had the science fiction superhero thing going that the best of The Flash gives us, and still took the time to give us some good character stuff. It was great seeing Jay and Jessie again, especially considering that off screen Jessie hasn't been looking great lately (dumping Wally with a break up cube, kicking her dad out of her superhero team) so it was nice to be reminded that I actually do like Jessie. Her connecting with Harry again through her mom/his wife was sweet. It was also a call back to poor Earth 1 Harrison Wells and his doomed love we saw in flashbacks. 

The Iris/Barry stuff was also super sweet, and I have no clue how anyone can consider Iris to be a Mary Sue. She is frequently connected with Barry's speed force connection and is an out of the box thinker, so it makes sense that she came up with the idea. When they actually let them be a couple, they really do work and have nice chemistry. Also, "Allen, West Allen, get dome here now" made me giggle. 

It was just great to get a break from DeVoe, and have a stand alone episode. I have been saying for awhile that as much as I appreciate development and serialized storytelling, having a few stand alone adventures is a good thing to break the story up, and try new things. 

[colorbars]

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers just felt people guessed the

Spoiler

Mystery Girl/Dawn

stuff too easily, so they're trying to create some doubt about her identity/motives.

She's met Barry, Ralph, Cisco, Caitlin and Harry so far, I'm guessing Joe will probably be next, and they'll save Iris for last.

It does feel drawn out but I don't mind because I've been a huge fan of Jessica Parker Kennedy and her face for years, so I'm always happy to see her when she pops up on my screen.

[FiveByFive]

11 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Secondly, Flash time confuses me. I understand that the speedsters can zip around so fast that they can get to places and do things before other people even have time to move. But how do they have such long conversations in Flash time? Physically moving makes sense but shouldn't conversations happen at normal speed, even in Flash time? This show makes my brain hurt.

We see the Flash zipping around all the time from everyone else's perspective. "Flash Time" is from his perspective and he is moving faster than he usually does which is why he and the others slowly begin to sweat.

The speedsters were able to perceive each other accurately since they all likely have the same potential and they could all move at the same speed but the show did a good job at showing that Jay was the worst at it as he had to tap out first. Jesse ended up having to tap out second and Barry held on the longest. 

They also were able to touch someone and extend that "speed energy" to them for a short amount of time.

On 3/6/2018 at 11:19 PM, colorbars said:

Which brings me to the Iris debate happening. I really don't get the big deal, because like others have said, it's not like Iris was suddenly smarter than everyone else. Caitlin was Killer Frost, so she's not a scientist right now, Cisco's unfrozen moment was understandably used on trying to vibe it away, the second most obvious solution (after running it far away), and Harry was half preoccupied with worrying about Jesse to to fully come up with a plan. Jay's solution of freezing it didn't work, but Jesse (who is supposed to be super smart) came up with the idea to throw the lightning bolts at it - Iris just came up with a solution for Barry to still use that plan once Jesse and Jay were tapped out.

They've all got pretty well defined roles on the show at this point and all of their choices were logical and came in order of what anyone would think normally. Also I loved that people told Barry he couldn't be stupid and blow up the speed force. (I was hoping someone would add, "And then how would you stop DeVoe then?" or "Why would you make that decision for everyone that has that power at this point? Don't be silly. They have people on their own Earths that need saving.")

Also I loved the fact that Barry finally learned his lesson about changing time. With his track record he would have overshot his destination and screwed things up even more. The speed force doesn't like it when he does that, Jay has warned him multiple times not to do it so I'm glad he has listened.

Barry can't run the bomb away - because disturbing it would cause it to explode faster - that's out.

Cisco can't breach the bomb away - that's out. 

Killer Frost can't freeze it - that's out.

Jesse/Barry and Jay can't lighting bolt it because Jay's time is up - so that's out.

All Iris did was remind Barry of something that she was personally there for and invested in and they only could have gone with that solution after they tried the easier ones first.

The character of Iris has done little to be unlikable since she was barely the focus of the show beyond love interest in the first few seasons. Ralph is the one sucking up screen time and before it was Kid Flash + Jesse + Tom Felton's character. I would have liked it better if they popped in occasionally like Gypsy who only appears to give Cisco more of a life and despite her horrible lawyer skills I do like Joe having Cecile. 

[Trini]

Re-watch thoughts:

The opening scene - and when it played out again later - would have had a bit more impact if they hadn't used it in the promos. I get why they did, but still. But it was a good opener; they haven't used that device too often.

So not much progress on defeating DeVoe, but at least they showed the team working on some things that will hopefully be important later. Still hate that they keep attributing things to him that they have no proof for, though.

Really like that the threat was a challenge, and not just something that could easily be solved by speed. I liked that they went through the problem-solving process, and everyone got a chance to come up with ideas - a real team effort. This might not work for every episode, but it was a nice change of pace here. They managed to keep things tense for the 'Flashtime' portion. There was a lot of exposition, but they also found time for an effects sequence, and relationship development.

Really great to see Jay and Jesse again! Seeing 3 'generations' of Flashes work together was cool too. Jay passed on info/lessons to Barry, and Barry also shared a lesson he learned to Jesse. Each had their strengths and weaknesses. I wish they could have found a way for Wally to participate. Would be a little more excited about another female speedster if it didn't feel like a set-up for Season 5.

So, are they actually going to resolve the Caitlin/Killer Frost duality? Not holding my breath on that.

Props to Grant Gustin for his acting skills - he was nearly every scene (save for the Harry/Jesse ones and the Harry/Caitlin one), and had dialog with everyone. It seemed like a lot to carry, and he did a great job, IMO. I think Grant really sold Barry's growing stress, exhaustion, and desperation as the situation escalated. Also Barry's tenderness with Iris.

I did like the Harry/Jesse scenes and their subplot, but them arguing about (does she have a name??) the wife/mother should have been set up earlier. So it's easier for Harry to create a mindreading device than to talk to his own daughter - LOL, sure. Anyway, they used the line from Earth-1's Wells' wife, so I guess Harry's wife was a version of Tess?

Mystery Girl is intriguing, but they really need to show how she's connected to a plot in her next appearance.

Gonna do a separate post for WestAllen....

[Rachel RSL]

3 hours ago, FiveByFive said:

We see the Flash zipping around all the time from everyone else's perspective. "Flash Time" is from his perspective and he is moving faster than he usually does which is why he and the others slowly begin to sweat.

The speedsters were able to perceive each other accurately since they all likely have the same potential and they could all move at the same speed but the show did a good job at showing that Jay was the worst at it as he had to tap out first. Jesse ended up having to tap out second and Barry held on the longest. 

They also were able to touch someone and extend that "speed energy" to them for a short amount of time.

I understand what Flash Time is but I just don't see how conversations can happen in super speed.......unless they're all talking like a sped up record. Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter if it makes sense to me.

[Kate45]

18 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Secondly, Flash time confuses me. I understand that the speedsters can zip around so fast that they can get to places and do things before other people even have time to move. But how do they have such long conversations in Flash time? Physically moving makes sense but shouldn't conversations happen at normal speed, even in Flash time? This show makes my brain hurt.

It is confusing, that's why you are confused! I have spent way too much time thinking about this since Tuesday, but I think I have found a solution that is at least workable for me. 

Here's how I understand it: Flash Time can only occur when when a speedster taps into the speed force, which is typically shown as Barry's eyes get the sparks of lightning. In order for everything else to happen at normal speed for non-speedsters, they have to be running at super speed. Anything that happens during the times when they are tapped into the speed force, but not also running will happen at a much slower pace than what non-speedsters experience. Take for example, the "Barry catching bullets" scenes, which have shown that Barry has become much faster throughout the seasons In episode 1x20, Barry tries to catch the bullets that Joe shot at "Wells"/Hannibal Bates. You can see that Barry is moving faster than the bullet, even though he does not catch the last one because of the force field. Then, in episode 2x05, Barry once again stops bullets from hitting Harry Wells after Joe shots him. Barry moves faster than the bullets, but the bullets are still moving. Finally, look at 4x04 when Bellows tried to kill Barry and Joe with some hitmen, he was able to enter Flash Time and finish setting the scene before the bullets actually moved. That's how we know that Barry has access to more speed force power than before. 

However, they can't move at super speed without it actually moving time along at a faster rate. For example, when Jesse leaves to get Jay, we see that the nuclear bomb moves toward the critical stage, and it moves again when Barry/Jesse/Jay try to use the lightning bolt to disable the nuclear bomb. On the other hand, when Barry goes into the speed force to get the Quark Sphere, you can see that the people in the room have moved because Barry was moving at super speed which caused the other things to move closer to regular time even though Barry had tapped into the speed force. 

As far as talking, it's my guess that when talking to other speedsters it happens at a much faster pace IF they are tapped into the speed force. It can also be extended to non-speedsters, but maybe only Barry can do it, because it's his show? I can't figure out why Jay didn't know how to do it as well, or why it didn't work with Jesse. Introducing that concept as something that Barry figured out while talking to Iris, certainly centers on the idea that Barry is the best speedster in the multiverse!

Anyways, that's my understanding of it. 

Also, someone on Twitter timed how long Barry had the non-speedsters in Flash Time with him: Cisco/Wells/Killer Frost: 1:00. Iris was in Flash Time for 2:23, and 1:20 in episode 10. I found that to be interesting because she's the only one who never became tired. Wells doesn't have powers, but he wasn't able to stay in any longer than the other two metas. I guess Iris has some type of connection to the speed force.      

[TheMasterReborn]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

I did like the Harry/Jesse scenes and their subplot, but them arguing about (does she have a name??) the wife/mother should have been set up earlier. So it's easier for Harry to create a mindreading device than to talk to his own daughter - LOL, sure. Anyway, they used the line from Earth-1's Wells' wife, so I guess Harry's wife was a version of Tess?

Mystery Girl is intriguing, but they really need to show how she's connected to a plot in her next appearance.

I always had the feeling they were originally setting up Tina McGee to be Harry's E-2 wife based on Harry's reactions whenever he heard her name or saw her in S2.  There was even a deleted scene with Harry & Jesse in their room at Star Labs looking at a drawing of a woman with Harry that looked a lot like Tina McGee. Not to mention Tina and Jesse could pass as mother & daughter.  I'm not sure what happen, if that was the case, since at the end of S2 they did a fan shout out for the original Barry Allen/Henry, John Welsey Shipp, and Tina McGee for about 5 minutes before they killed him.

Amanda Pays, Tina McGee, has not returned to the show since the end of S2.  I'm not sure if she didn't want to continue on or if the potential plot line of, maybe, Harry and Tine hooking up turned her off.  I know Amanda Pays had pretty much given up acting to raise her 4 boys, whom should all be adults now, before returning on the Flash .  She is also very devoted to her husband, Corbin Bersen, and they have been busy promoting a book they wrote on home improvements.  Hopefully we will see Tina McGee return again at some point, but with each passing season, I'm starting to doubt it. 

I'm wondering if the Mystery Girl could be the Speedster girl Jay Garrick is training.

On a side note, has anyone had a "vibe" about Harry not being quite right this season?  I especially noted near the beginning of the episode, before the bomb, where everyone was discussing DeVoe, Cisco said "just like Thawne," and Harry repeated "just like Thawne," quietly to himself.  No one else on the team seem to pay any attention to his comment.  A couple people on the boards have noted that Harry's been doing that thing with his glasses again too. It could also explain the Mystery Girl's reaction when she met Harry at Jitter's, especially if she is Barry's daughter/granddaughter. Although, someone pointed out Harry was having trouble remaining with Barry in the Speed Force thing he created and Cisco should have been able to pick up if he was different. So I guess it's doubtful.  Then again, they have never explained how Harry's wife died and we know that Thawne was able to feel Wells emotions for Tess on E-1 when he took over his body, so who knows.

One more thing, it seems like they are trying to hook up Harry and Caitlin, I hope that's not the case.  I'd rather see both of them with people closer to their ages.

Edited March 8, 2018 by TheMasterReborn

[Trini]

9 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I understand what Flash Time is but I just don't see how conversations can happen in super speed.......unless they're all talking like a sped up record. Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter if it makes sense to me.

That's plausible!

But I think it's only an issue if two people are not moving at the same speed. In any case, I'm sure it doesn't make any scientific sense; it's mainly a convention used to tell the story.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Trini

[Rachel RSL]

Agreed. I need to just stop overthinking this show.

[SyracuseMug]

15 hours ago, FiveByFive said:

Barry can't run the bomb away - because disturbing it would cause it to explode faster - that's out.

Cisco can't breach the bomb away - that's out. 

Killer Frost can't freeze it - that's out.

Jesse/Barry and Jay can't lighting bolt it because Jay's time is up - so that's out.

 

They never explained why Barry didn't ask Supergirl and/or Superman for help. I can understand the producers not wanting to do a crossover, but in theory, the Kryptonians might have been able to help. They can handle Flashtime, and they can freeze things with their breath. 

[Trini]

The Barry & Iris relationship got a good amount of focus in this episode; I think the writers/etc. wanted re-emphasize that it's a core theme of the show, and this season ("We're the Flash"). The producers have said before they aim for heart, humor, and heroics; this one really went with the heroics and heart.

The opening scene was cute; Barry & Iris did a little exposition and reminded everyone about their newlywed status. And since the writers made a point to do that, I hope they follow through on 'quality' WestAllen scenes. We haven't seen the loft since Christmas! Then of course the emotional scene in the cortex, where Grant and Candice killed it. Barry's a complete mess, and they're both literally moments from death, but they can still make each other smile. They've been alluding to and showing the lightning rod concept on the show since the start, and then Barry actually said it out loud! I might have been compromised....? (Making it relevant to the solution was icing on the cake.) Then the 'you're amazing/I love you/I have to go/but I'm ABSOLUTELY coming back' kiss finished me off!

11 hours ago, Kate45 said:

Also, someone on Twitter timed how long Barry had the non-speedsters in Flash Time with him: Cisco/Wells/Killer Frost: 1:00. Iris was in Flash Time for 2:23, and 1:20 in episode 10. I found that to be interesting because she's the only one who never became tired. Wells doesn't have powers, but he wasn't able to stay in any longer than the other two metas. I guess Iris has some type of connection to the speed force.      

She doesn't have a direct connection, but she's always had a connection to Barry, and his powers, so her being an exception I can buy.

The last scene with them was really sweet too; and reiterated how they work well together. Plus, cuddling!

Edited March 9, 2018 by Trini

[Trini]

I know that Joe probably wouldn't have been able to help with the bomb, but I am left wondering what Barry would have said to him, and vice versa. Although, I'm sure it would have included some variation of 'get Iris to safety'.

 

On 3/7/2018 at 3:06 PM, Rachel RSL said:

I swear I'm an intelligent person so I don't know why this show always confuses me. So, Barry stole the thingamajig that was tricking the speed force into thinking he was there....did he throw it back into the speed force and I just didn't notice? Or is there now nothing in the speed force? And if there's nothing.....??? There has to be something in there or the speed force goes all wonky, right?

They did mention the thingy/speed force in the last scene with Jay, but I'm betting this does come up later.

[SyracuseMug]

2 hours ago, doram said:

Only speedsters can handle Flashtime and they'd have the same problem like Caitlin did with freezing.

Do Supergirl and Superman not qualify as speedsters? Faster than a speeding bullet, and all that? They might not be as fast as the Flash, but they can certainly move much faster than a normal human.

[Kate45]

7 hours ago, SyracuseMug said:

Do Supergirl and Superman not qualify as speedsters? Faster than a speeding bullet, and all that? They might not be as fast as the Flash, but they can certainly move much faster than a normal human.

They aren't powered by the speed force, so I don't think it would work. 

[Quark]

Really great episode. Grant Gustin was superb.

If Jessica Parker Kennedy is supposed to be someone from the future, I imagine that sinister look at the end relates to how Caitlin fully embraces Killer Frost? I wouldn't be happy about meeting her either if you know she is about to go full on evil.

[shantown]

11 hours ago, SyracuseMug said:

Do Supergirl and Superman not qualify as speedsters? Faster than a speeding bullet, and all that? They might not be as fast as the Flash, but they can certainly move much faster than a normal human.

Also, this isn't their show. I'm already mad they had enough "time" to go get rickety old Jay Garrick from another Earth.

[CletusMusashi]

Mystery Girl is annoying, but at least Stretchypants stayed out of the episode. If next week isn't about him, I'll watch again.

I like how they write Jesse's character. She is not stupid, but she hasn't seen everything that Barry has, so it's only natural for her to push for solutions that he has already learned are not good ones. It's a far more interesting way to write a newish speedster than Wally's "Hey, look at me, I'm a super hero! Watch me run fast! Weeeeeeeeee!"

[Cthulhudrew]

18 hours ago, Trini said:

On 3/7/2018 at 12:06 PM, Rachel RSL said:

I swear I'm an intelligent person so I don't know why this show always confuses me. So, Barry stole the thingamajig that was tricking the speed force into thinking he was there....did he throw it back into the speed force and I just didn't notice? Or is there now nothing in the speed force? And if there's nothing.....??? There has to be something in there or the speed force goes all wonky, right?

They did mention the thingy/speed force in the last scene with Jay, but I'm betting this does come up later.

I think the sphere got destroyed. Barry, Jay, and Jesse do say something like "the Speed Force seems to be okay" as if they aren't sure if it's going to come after them again, which wouldn't/shouldn't be the case if it had survived and returned to the SF.

I'm actually getting pretty tired of the SF, frankly. On the one hand, they want us to view it as this intelligent presence that can communicate with speedsters and has very definite ideas of what their role should be in the great scheme of things (up to and including directly influencing them along their paths). Then they turn around and have it easily fooled by this technological gizmo which it mindlessly follows around like greyhounds after a rabbit. Not to mention having its own seemingly mindless servants traipsing around to punish other speedsters in a completely discriminatory way (Black Flash). It just doesn't make sense, and the more they try to use it in their stories, the less sense it makes.

It's like Lucas' midichlorians. The less said about how and what the speed force is, the better it works.

[legaleagle53]

On 3/8/2018 at 4:43 PM, SyracuseMug said:

They never explained why Barry didn't ask Supergirl and/or Superman for help. I can understand the producers not wanting to do a crossover, but in theory, the Kryptonians might have been able to help. They can handle Flashtime, and they can freeze things with their breath. 

Wrong Earth.  Superman and Supergirl are on Earth-38, and Jesse's never been there, so she wouldn't know how to get there or where to look to find Supergirl, whom she's never met (and Barry's never met Superman, either -- does he even know that Supergirl has a super-powered cousin?).  And again, Superman and Supergirl aren't true speedsters, although they can match them in terms of speed.  But even they wouldn't be able to freeze the bomb for the same reason that Killer Frost couldn't -- they'd have to be in Flashtime even to communicate with Barry, and in Flashtime, there's simply not enough time for their powers to work.

[Kathira]

On 3/7/2018 at 12:28 PM, phoenics said:

Agreed - and honestly a lot of the "Iris should just go back to being a journalist" and the like are really just attempts to go back to when she WAS sidelined, imo.

This series of articles about how the fandom treats Iris sums up my feelings - especially about how fandom keeps moving the goalposts where Iris is concerned.  This author has several articles that break this down extremely well and traces much of it from a racially problematic place:

http://www.withanaccent.com/2018/02/18/not-just-otp-fan-loves-black-woman/3/

Very interesting perspective. I've always thought that there was a lot of this factoring into fans' dislike of Martha as a companion on Doctor Who. Freema Agyeman may not be the world's greatest actress, but the bar for female companions in terms of acting is low and she definitely clears it. The excuses are similar to those for disliking Iris - people claim not to like her storyline or her chemistry with the Doctor, but I can't help feeling that as this author points out, she is denigrated for essentially taking a white woman's place - at the side of the lead actor.

[Trini]

I'd be interested in seeing someone edit the scenes of Flashtime from the point of view of the non-speedsters that Barry brought into it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

If I try to think how it's possible for Barry to speak to everyone he touched while Flashing superfast and being in "flashtime," my head will explode. So I'll just accept it and go with it.

As for Mystery Girl (who I think has to be

Spoiler

Dawn-not a spoiler, but my speculation

), just based on her personality since we first met her in the cross over. Also, her smile fading and her looking...angry? determined? I saw that as more toward Caitlin/Frost, and not toward Barry, who she is always giddy and chattery with. I could be wrong. The asshats who write this show could very well flip the script.

I think this was the first episode where Joe didn't call Barry, Barry, or Bear, when he was in the Flash suit. He called him "Flash."

YAY!!! Jay!!!!!!!

That's all I got.

Oh, wait. There was also the snuggley times with Iris and Barry.

[phoenics]

About mystery girl and KF... if that is who we think it is... then

I can see why she'd have issues with KF.  If she's Dawn Allen, KF tried to kill her mom and possibly goes after her dad in the future.