S08.E09: Honor

[SnarkyTart]

9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I don't think that's why people didn't watch, or if some didn't watch over that it's probably not that Carl died, but the stupid, banal, dumb way he died. I think a lot stopped watching because this show is a confusing, repetitive, non-sensical boring pile of cow patties. Or many just cannot take Negan any more, and/or the Garbage People and/or the 24/7 firing of guns by people who have no ammunition and/or the mystical saving of the Sanctuary by Eugene and/or the monologuing. Or... well, there's more that probably has driven people away but the entire list would be too long. 

^^^Plus the extra special added bonus of watching all of the above crap pile in the dark!

[AngelaHunter]

19 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

  [I needed to watch the last 5 eps of 8A just to not be out of the loop for this episode]

You didn't miss anything! Running, shouting, explosions, empty threats, Negan's touching ode to his ballsack, stuff and nonsense, all in total darkness!

[heisenberg]

On 28/02/2018 at 6:37 PM, peach said:

But, but..he's a doctor!

I Know and... I don't care anymore. 

That's the problem.  It is not because of the character, it is because there are too many characters.

I am still trying to figure out what the fuck the "Garbage people" are doing on this show, they arrived when?.. two years ago????  No credibility, no past, no future, no story but here they are, still kicking...

Before I get to discover a new character, even if it is a doctor :-), they have to get rid of at least half of the people on that show.  

Edited March 2, 2018 by heisenberg

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

12 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

You didn't miss anything! Running, shouting, explosions, empty threats, Negan's touching ode to his ballsack, stuff and nonsense, all in total darkness!

Exactly.  The only time I was slightly emotionally 'moved' was when I watched the digitally-created tiger get eaten. 

.... poor SFX kitty

8 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

I Know and... I don't care anymore. 

That's the problem.  It is not because of the character, it is because there are too many characters.

I am still trying to figure out what the fuck the "Garbage people" are doing on this show, they arrived when?.. two years ago????  No credibility, no past, no future, no story but here they are, still kicking...

Before I get to discover a new character, even if it is a doctor :-), they have to get rid of at least half of the people on that show.  

Best thing about the GPK?  Trying to figure out who's more stupid - them or Rick.

Can't kill him the first time with an armored walker, so let's toss him another who just has a helmet on.  Oh, and giving him a stick to use as a weapon against it and yourselves.  Then Rick trusting them again in a 'life & death' situation.

Lol.  I am getting more enjoyment out of being amused by things like that then the actual story playing out as the season goes on.

[heisenberg]

14 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Lol.  I am getting more enjoyment out of being amused by things like that then the actual story playing out as the season goes on.

This how I am able to follow "Fear the Walking Dead" from the beginning,  The Griswold family is hilarious.   I guess I am going to have to do the same with the main show if I want to continue watching.

[AngelaHunter]

41 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Lol.  I am getting more enjoyment out of being amused by things like that then the actual story playing out as the season goes on.

I haven't reached the point where I find any of it amusing. I find it stupid, silly, poorly done, insulting, dumb and boring, but not amusing. I know, I don't have to watch it, but as my mother used to say, "Where there's life, there's hope." I guess I'm naive enough to think someone connected with this mess will wake up one day and say, "What the hell have we done to this show?? Let's fix it!" and then do it. Fool am I! If I want "so bad it's good" I need to stick with the Scifi channel. AMC! Yep, a classic for sure. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

If Rick is ever killed by a walker/group of walkers - while still being in 'fighting trim' - this show deserves to bite it.

As I said before, he's proven himself untouchable against them, either lone walkers/just a pair-3 of them or in a large group of them  - numerous times - and that would be biggest canon-broken-beyond-fixing moment (IMO).

[EllenC]

5 hours ago, peach said:

 

Killing Glen destroyed a lot of the heart and soul of the show. 

And it STILL feels like it mattered so little to the rest of the family somehow -- because of the ridiculous time jumping, scattered and over-the-top new characters, he of the giant mouth, etc. I've tried but haven't felt the same about the show since then. I agree it makes little sense the Carl we've known would want Negan redeemed after what happened to Glen and Abe.

I would like to think Carl's death would take some characters like Michonne in a really interesting direction (but doubt it). Otherwise it feels completely like the final spark of hope is gone and who wants to watch that? (At the rate we're going, Maggie's baby will be born in season 11.)

So are we going to get Morgan heading to Hilltop with the stick of Savior death? For yet another ninja battle with Jesus outside the Savior cage? Maybe in the dark so we can't tell.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Re: Maggie's baby being born in S11;  

Assuming her [LC] new series doesn't get picked up, that is very possible - considering this season seems to only be covering a few days, at most.  If LC does indeed leave for the new series, then maybe the unborn baby can be transferred to one of the surviving lady's belly through some weird form of mitosis before the Maggie character is killed off.

[Smad]

14 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

What's particularly maddening is that Gimple wrote a number of the episodes that I liked a lot during seasons 2 and 3, when the show was having various issues with showrunners and pacing and unevenness and reported money fights.  Clear and 18 Miles Out, for example, are two that I will rewatch almost every time if I happen to be flipping through and catch a marathon because they both stand up well on their own while still being respectful of the larger story.  Gimples's been around since the start of season 2 even if he didn't get promoted until the start of 4.   In fact, from what I can tell most of the people involved in the production and decision making end of things aren't new.  They've been with the show in one capacity or another for years.  They didn't suddenly get hired on in season 7 ignorant of the show's past and immediately say "hey, you know what would be cool?"  Yet, you're right in that they're acting like they have zero knowledge of what story the show was purportedly telling that kept us sticking with it all this time.

The fact that Gimple was basically allowed to fail upward in being promoted while Angela Kang, who's mostly written episodes I either hated or don't care enough about to rewatch,  is our next new showrunner doesn't inspire any confidence that they even understand what's gone wrong to even try to pull it out of the death spiral it now seems to be in or at least give us a satisfying conclusion.

Maybe Kang is the opposite of Gimple. While Gimple wrote some ok episodes (aside from the ones you mentioned there is also The Grove, A and No Sanctuary), a show runner he is not. He seemed to have been in over his head since the beginning with even the basics of running a show. And apparently didn't learn a damn thing through the years on the show. Angela Kang isn't much of a writer so maybe she is a better how runner. But I don't really believe it. The fact that AMC didn't bring in new blood and that Kang literally studied under Gimple means we will probably just get more of the same.

[peach]

9 hours ago, Smad said:

Maybe Kang is the opposite of Gimple. While Gimple wrote some ok episodes (aside from the ones you mentioned there is also The Grove, A and No Sanctuary), a show runner he is not. He seemed to have been in over his head since the beginning with even the basics of running a show. And apparently didn't learn a damn thing through the years on the show. Angela Kang isn't much of a writer so maybe she is a better how runner.

Hope springs eternal.

[Primetimer]

Rick's son takes a very, very, very long time to say goodbye on a very special episode of Zombie Bites Still Bad. Omar has your EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

View the full article

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Rick's son takes a very, very, very long time to say goodbye on a very special episode of Zombie Bites Still Bad. Omar has your EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

View the full article

Some excerpts:

• Ezekiel dives for the floor as Carol and Morgan make the worst entrance since the doors wouldn't open at a performance of Noises Off!.
• Gavin, in the aisle, just saw that, and wishes he were the author of some other play that didn't involve intestines all over the stage.
• Back to Carl's death cot of saying goodbye.
• Back at the world's longest death scene... 
• Oh, just fucking die already, jeez.

Beauty.

[peach]

21 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I don't know what this says about me, or the show (TPTB).... but I'm at the point where I sorta hope Rick is killed off at the end of this season.  So I can drop it.

Pre-Negan/Saviors, this show was the among the best in TV land (IMO), but since?  I can't be remotely fussed to stay current and even wonder what I'm missing while being behind.  [I needed to watch the last 5 eps of 8A just to not be out of the loop for this episode]

Here's a summary I kinda wrote for myself.  Basically, Rick, Ezekiel, and Maggie did some speechifyin' on top of some trucks to rally all three communities for an All Out War to end their slavery to Negan.  Plan:  trap the Saviors in the Sanctuary with a walker horde, and then take out the outposts.  First Rick dropped by the Sanctuary and told them in plain shooting distance that they were all going to be really super sorry this time, for real though, but they can maybe still surrender.   Then he shot their freaking windows, man. Then there were multiple episodes covering mass confusion and chaotic shooting, and all the Kingdom fighters got slaughtered, but Ezekiel made it out and his tiger got ate by nuclear zombies. Cool!!!!  Rick dropped by the garbage heap for some more Thunderdome action, but this time in his underwear.  Amazeballs.  I think he left with nothing but I can't even remember.

The other part of the plan was Alexandria was left totally unguarded and even unwatched.  Michonne went on a road trip to not help Daryl kill some Saviors.  Because "I just can't."  Then she went home and just sort of walked around and wondered if the war party was going to be home in time for dinner.  Daryl drove a truck into the Sanctuary to let the zombies in and then he just went home, too.  Because whatever.

Carl was neither part of the war party nor the defense (which they didn't mount).  He was just hanging out in the woods looking for some rando, but the rando turned out to be a spiritually pure doctor and a demographic win, as luck would have it.  Gets bit while wandering around with rando, during the war for civilization.  Got back, wrote some letters. Then when the Saviors actually did attack, he at least mounted enough of a defense with smoke bombs so the Alexandrians could escape into the tunnel while Negan burned their houses down.  So he's the only one who did anything right.  Then he went into a sewer tunnel to die.  Rick got in a fistfight with Negan, knocked him on the ground and got ahold of Lucille, and just tapped him with the end and ran away so Negan could finish burning down the neighborhood.  Then Rick and Michonne and Daryl hid in the tunnel, too.

Omg, then there's all the stupid shit Jesus and Tara did.  I can't even write it down. I can't believe it was really this bad. I can't believe they sat in a writers room and, like, laid this out as the plot.

Edited March 2, 2018 by peach
clarity

[Nashville]

27 minutes ago, peach said:

Omg, then there's all the stupid shit Jesus and Tara did.  I can't even write it down. I can't believe it was really this bad. I can't believe they sat in a writers room and, like, laid this out as the plot.

The one - the ONE - indignity TPTB didn’t (forgot, maybe?) to subject us to, was Tara trying to give Coral one of her gawdawful stupid-ass fistbumps before her Exit Stage Right.  

Swear to god - when Tara was saying goodbye and started to stretch her hand out to Carl, I was on the edge of my chair gritting my teeth and saying, “No... no... nooooo....”

[SnarkyTart]

35 minutes ago, peach said:

I can't even write it down. I can't believe it was really this bad. I can't believe they sat in a writers room and, like, laid this out as the plot.

The writers’ meeting that laid out the plot for S8 might have gone something like…

Gimple at the head of a conference table (salivating and with only one hand visible above the table):

“I want lots of speeches for Negan where he says “nut sack, balls, dick, shittin’ pants, and pee hole!”

“I want Jadis naked!”

“I want Rick in his underwear fighting a walker head on a stick!”

“I want Morgan literally ripping someone’s guts out with his bare  hands!”

“I want a herd of walkers ground up like hamburger in a meat grinder!”

“I want Carl Grimes DEAD!”

“Your ONLY job is to get to these scenes and I don’t care how or why you get there!  These scenes ARE the plot!”

[peach]

12 minutes ago, Nashville said:

The one - the ONE - indignity TPTB didn’t (forgot, maybe?) to subject us to, was Tara trying to give Coral one of her gawdawful stupid-ass fistbumps before her Exit Stage Right.  

Swear to god - when Tara was saying goodbye and started to stretch her hand out to Carl, I was on the edge of my chair gritting my teeth and saying, “No... no... nooooo....”

They're probably kicking themselves over that one. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by peach

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, peach said:

They're probably kicking themselves over that one. 

I’LL HELP!!!

[uoflfan]

I could not watch these last 2 episodes and I cried just reading the recap.  Carl has long been my favorite character.  Killing him was a major mistake.  The ratings will continue to decline because they will have lost their teen audience and many parents of teens.  The show's name should be changed to "Dead Series Walking".  With Lauren probably leaving and with Danai's many projects, I predict a short lifespan for Maggie and Michonne. Everyone who's still watching can tune in for Daryl riding his motorcycle around, Rambo Carol and the master of bad decisions, Rick.  I won't be watching anymore.

[Vickyv333]

I gotta say, I enjoyed this article soooo much more than the actual episode. Hilarious! Thank you for that.

[TigerLynx]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:06 PM, EllenC said:

And it STILL feels like it mattered so little to the rest of the family somehow -- because of the ridiculous time jumping, scattered and over-the-top new characters, he of the giant mouth, etc. I've tried but haven't felt the same about the show since then. I agree it makes little sense the Carl we've known would want Negan redeemed after what happened to Glen and Abe.

I would like to think Carl's death would take some characters like Michonne in a really interesting direction (but doubt it). Otherwise it feels completely like the final spark of hope is gone and who wants to watch that? (At the rate we're going, Maggie's baby will be born in season 11.)

So are we going to get Morgan heading to Hilltop with the stick of Savior death? For yet another ninja battle with Jesus outside the Savior cage? Maybe in the dark so we can't tell.

I don't think Carl's death will have any more of an impact than Glen's did.  It's bad enough they were killed, but instead of showing the loss, there were a million never ending monologues about nothing.  If they did want to redeem Negan, Carl and Glen shouldn't have been killed.  Glen was the heart and soul of the show, and he was willing to give people a chance even after they had done horrible things.  Also, Rick and Company, Glen included, did kill the Saviors when they were sleeping so Glen could have made the argument they should call a truce, and try to work things out without more people dying.  Negan seemed to genuinely like Carl, and he seemed interested in why Rick's people were so loyal to each other so again a possibility that they could do things differently, but instead it was just constant killing and threats.

I'm not surprised by there being psychos in the ZA, or that people who are to stupid to live manage to survive, but there being no one except psychos and idiots has gotten old.  I'm still waiting for my people in the shallow end of the pool to show up.  By that I mean, I would want to hang out by the pool for a day.  I want to go to the beach, the movies, eat out at restaurants, and shop at the mall.  I do not believe I would be the only person left in the ZA who would be missing all the modern creature comforts I've grown accustomed to.  It's not like they have to reinvent the wheel.  All the technology is still known, but instead of doing something constructive, these morons destroy everything in sight, and then bitch about it.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

6 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

The writers’ meeting that laid out the plot for S8 might have gone something like…

Gimple at the head of a conference table (salivating and with only one hand visible above the table):

“I want lots of speeches for Negan where he says “nut sack, balls, dick, shittin’ pants, and pee hole!”

“I want Jadis naked!”

“I want Rick in his underwear fighting a walker head on a stick!”

“I want Morgan literally ripping someone’s guts out with his bare  hands!”

“I want a herd of walkers ground up like hamburger in a meat grinder!”

“I want Carl Grimes DEAD!”

“Your ONLY job is to get to these scenes and I don’t care how or why you get there!  These scenes ARE the plot!”

You forgot to add in the background sound effect of rhythmic thumping on the bottom of the table top, coming from Gimple's general area.

[AngelaHunter]

7 hours ago, peach said:

Rick dropped by the garbage heap for some more Thunderdome action, but this time in his underwear.  Amazeballs.  I think he left with nothing but I can't even remember.

He was lucky to leave with his life (and his shorts), and even that didn't cool his kinda-kinky ardor for the Queen of the Heap.

 

7 hours ago, peach said:

  Got back, wrote some letters.

 I guess the letters were really short. Grade 4 education, remember. He probably never got to to learn cursive.

 

7 hours ago, peach said:

I can't believe it was really this bad. I can't believe they sat in a writers room and, like, laid this out as the plot.

Funny, that's what I've been saying after every ep since the Saviors used massive logging equipment and tractors and dozens of chainsaws and an ocean of precious gasoline to pile up logs in front of the Travellin' CDB. as a little "Gotcha!" prank.  "Huh?" I said. "Really?"

[Jeremyjay2281]

Since you picked entire episode apart. I will pick just one of your statements apart. How would they carry Carl up a ladder out a manhole if he was still on a stretcher???

[Omar G.]

5 hours ago, Jeremyjay2281 said:

Since you picked entire episode apart. I will pick just one of your statements apart. How would they carry Carl up a ladder out a manhole if he was still on a stretcher???

1. Take Carl off stretcher.

2. Collapse stretcher.

3. Take stretcher up out of tunnel the same way you brought it down.

4. Take Carl up ladder.

5. Uncollapse stretcher.

6. Put Carl back on stretcher.

7. Roll stretcher, live a better life not having to carry Carl awkwardly by the shoulders.

 

Really, it's not that complicated.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Omar G.

[EllenC]

16 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

You forgot to add in the background sound effect of rhythmic thumping on the bottom of the table top, coming from Gimple's general area.

And lots and lots of shooting. And darkness. And characters drawing straws each week to see who's the pacifist.

My husband was watching The Green Mile on TV this week. I nearly wept for Frank Darabont.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

7 hours ago, EllenC said:

And lots and lots of shooting. And darkness. And characters drawing straws each week to see who's the pacifist.

My husband was watching The Green Mile on TV this week. I nearly wept for Frank Darabont.

Just for timeline purposes, when was Darabont canned from TWD?   Wasn't it after s2?

[magpye29]

On 3/2/2018 at 11:16 PM, TigerLynx said:

I'm still waiting for my people in the shallow end of the pool to show up.  By that I mean, I would want to hang out by the pool for a day.  I want to go to the beach, the movies, eat out at restaurants, and shop at the mall.  I do not believe I would be the only person left in the ZA who would be missing all the modern creature comforts I've grown accustomed to.

So much this.  I would be going out of my mind without a book to read--and you never see books anywhere (except maybe with Eugene?).  Board games?  DVDs?  What fun things there are on the show are throwbacks to the 70s and 80s, far better suited to Stranger Things.  No one has a guitar?  No one has anything that runs on solar power?  No one in Alexandria had a pool?  I'm always more jarred by what people DON'T find when they're scavenging, and what they DON'T have in their settled communities.  

I know when you're rebuilding the world, you're going to have a lot of work to do, I get that.  But what are you going to do on your down time?  It can't all be drudge, drudge, drudge.  People have to have a break, have to have fun, have to have social interaction.  All we get on this show is grim, dirty people, psychos terrorizing everyone else, and unending misery.  That's why I enjoy Ezekiel so much--he brings some levity to the show.  

This mid-season premiere feels more like a season finale to me.  I've been mourning all week because I feel gutted.  The struggle of CDB for survival in the Zombie Apocalypse has turned into an endless, ever-repeating Keystone Kops routine of find a stronghold, try to settle in, encounter a bunch of bad guys, and fight them off.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  We never see any progress, we never see any hope.  New characters who are "good" are too stupid to live, and new characters who are "bad" take sadistic, psychotic behavior to extremes.  

I am going to miss Carl for the history he brought to the show of a kid growing up in the most difficult circumstances, yet still managing to add a layer of normalcy to the situation--some teenage rebellion, the unrelenting hubris and sense of immortality people his age have, and the relationships he had with his father, Michonne, and various other members of CDB.  For all the bitching about Carl never staying where he was supposed to be, he was very typical of the kids I know in the school where I work, from first graders to eighth graders.  They DON'T do what you tell them to do.  They don't stay where you tell them to stay.  They never think about the consequences of their action.  An idea crosses their mind, and they're off running with it.  

We're never going to have someone like Carl on the show again, because we're never going to have the depth of history with another kid.  Not with the hat, with the chocolate pudding, with the ties to other characters, with the situational shorthand.  I think this is why Carl's sudden turnaround is ringing so false to us.  We KNOW Carl would never have forgiven Negan's brutal slaying of Abraham and Glenn, would never have advocated Negan being a part of Judith's life.  For him to urge that on Rick is such a betrayal of the characters and the audience.  The people who run and write this show have no respect for us, the viewers. The signs of that disrespect were always there (Michonne's lobotomy since she hooked up with Rick, Maggie's strange lack of grieving over her sister's death, Andrea's hots for the Governor, Rick's repeated trust in Garbage Pail Jadis despite her numerous double crosses, etc. etc. etc.), but we were always able to fanwank them away.  We will never be able to do that with Carl's death.  The small-minded, short-sighted show runners destroyed this show for shock and awww, neither of which they got, and they will never be able to fill the void they've created.  I will probably continue watching, but I will never trust the show again.  Not because I think any character should be untouchable (although I always felt Carl was and should have been), but because this show doesn't respect its own history and the investment we have in these characters. 

[Bongo Fury]

8 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Just for timeline purposes, when was Darabont canned from TWD?   Wasn't it after s2?

Yes, he left after S2. But his problems started after S1. The show was a big hit but inexplicably AMC cut his budget. And he got his hands slapped by Kirkdouche for the CDC episode. So he basically went through the motions for S2 with the set piece location of the Farm as his only recourse after getting his budget gutted.

 

Just imagine what this show could have been had Darabont been given proper funding and the freedom to tell the story HIS way.

[nodorothyparker]

From what I can tell and what I can remember, Darabont was fired during the making of season 2.  Things he had planned out were gutted because AMC in realizing what a cash cow it had stumbled into somehow thought he should be able to make a full season, after the limited first season's six episodes, on less money.  (Does anybody else remember reading that AMC thought a zombie show could probably get by with fewer zombies and it should be enough to hear them or just suggest them sometimes?  I know I did, and the fact that that has pretty much been the entirety of the much more cheaply made FTWD supports it.)  Hence, we spent a full season sitting on a farm.  Darabont and AMC have been tied up in lawsuits over money ever since.

There were problems with Darbont's storytelling too, particularly in his writing of the female characters, but he's the one who started the series on such an elegiac note mournful for the lives and the world that had been lost.  Now it's all about whatever cheaply gross special effect they can throw in when we can even see it in the dark.

[AngelaHunter]

On 3/2/2018 at 5:12 PM, SnarkyTart said:

The writers’ meeting that laid out the plot for S8 might have gone something like…

Gimple at the head of a conference table (salivating and with only one hand visible above the table):

“I want lots of speeches for Negan where he says “nut sack, balls, dick, shittin’ pants, and pee hole!”

“I want Jadis naked!”

“I want Rick in his underwear fighting a walker head on a stick!”

“I want Morgan literally ripping someone’s guts out with his bare  hands!”

“I want a herd of walkers ground up like hamburger in a meat grinder!”

“I want Carl Grimes DEAD!”

“Your ONLY job is to get to these scenes and I don’t care how or why you get there!  These scenes ARE the plot!”

This, right here? Is why I can NOT give up this show.

And also, tonight Rick will threaten Negan with "I'm gonna kill you." Can't wait for that innovative moment!

[mightysparrow]

9 hours ago, magpye29 said:

So much this.  I would be going out of my mind without a book to read--and you never see books anywhere (except maybe with Eugene?).  Board games?  DVDs?  What fun things there are on the show are throwbacks to the 70s and 80s, far better suited to Stranger Things.  No one has a guitar?  No one has anything that runs on solar power?  No one in Alexandria had a pool?  I'm always more jarred by what people DON'T find when they're scavenging, and what they DON'T have in their settled communities.  

I know when you're rebuilding the world, you're going to have a lot of work to do, I get that.  But what are you going to do on your down time?  It can't all be drudge, drudge, drudge.  People have to have a break, have to have fun, have to have social interaction.  All we get on this show is grim, dirty people, psychos terrorizing everyone else, and unending misery.  That's why I enjoy Ezekiel so much--he brings some levity to the show.  

This mid-season premiere feels more like a season finale to me.  I've been mourning all week because I feel gutted.  The struggle of CDB for survival in the Zombie Apocalypse has turned into an endless, ever-repeating Keystone Kops routine of find a stronghold, try to settle in, encounter a bunch of bad guys, and fight them off.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  We never see any progress, we never see any hope.  New characters who are "good" are too stupid to live, and new characters who are "bad" take sadistic, psychotic behavior to extremes.  

I am going to miss Carl for the history he brought to the show of a kid growing up in the most difficult circumstances, yet still managing to add a layer of normalcy to the situation--some teenage rebellion, the unrelenting hubris and sense of immortality people his age have, and the relationships he had with his father, Michonne, and various other members of CDB.  For all the bitching about Carl never staying where he was supposed to be, he was very typical of the kids I know in the school where I work, from first graders to eighth graders.  They DON'T do what you tell them to do.  They don't stay where you tell them to stay.  They never think about the consequences of their action.  An idea crosses their mind, and they're off running with it.  

We're never going to have someone like Carl on the show again, because we're never going to have the depth of history with another kid.  Not with the hat, with the chocolate pudding, with the ties to other characters, with the situational shorthand.  I think this is why Carl's sudden turnaround is ringing so false to us.  We KNOW Carl would never have forgiven Negan's brutal slaying of Abraham and Glenn, would never have advocated Negan being a part of Judith's life.  For him to urge that on Rick is such a betrayal of the characters and the audience.  The people who run and write this show have no respect for us, the viewers. The signs of that disrespect were always there (Michonne's lobotomy since she hooked up with Rick, Maggie's strange lack of grieving over her sister's death, Andrea's hots for the Governor, Rick's repeated trust in Garbage Pail Jadis despite her numerous double crosses, etc. etc. etc.), but we were always able to fanwank them away.  We will never be able to do that with Carl's death.  The small-minded, short-sighted show runners destroyed this show for shock and awww, neither of which they got, and they will never be able to fill the void they've created.  I will probably continue watching, but I will never trust the show again.  Not because I think any character should be untouchable (although I always felt Carl was and should have been), but because this show doesn't respect its own history and the investment we have in these characters. 

Your comment moved me to tears.  You put into words what I've been feeling about this show for a long time now.  Like so many of us, I gave this show love, support and the most valuable thing of all, time. 

I also marvel at the lack of good-old fashioned fun.  It wasn't always like that though.  When they arrived at Alexandria they found a community that knew how to have fun.  They had parties.  The kids took Carl under their wing and showed him their video games.  But we were told that the Alexandrians were stupid and weak and didn't deserve the nice setup they had built.  Rick and Carol tore Alexandria apart and that was looked upon as a good thing.  We were supposed to buy that Rick and Carol (with their lackey, Daryl) were on the RIGHT side.  It went downhill from there.  Instead of continuing what the people in Alexandria had started, planting and building, Rick turned the community into pillagers.  Rick led his group to commit mass murder.  And we were supposed to believe that people like Glenn, Maggie, Michonne would follow.  

The hardest thing I've had to deal with is what's happened to my favourite character.  I don't give a fuck what anybody says, there is no way on this earth that Michonne would EVER fall for a man that she had to take a brick to.  NO FUCKING WAY.  Not after what she had been through.  It was a complete betrayal of her past and her present.  Michonne loved Carl but Rick was one of the people she had to protect Carl from.  Rick brought the wrath of Negan down on Alexandria.

I don't welcome the return of Killer Morgan.  It might be 'cool' to see him tear out a man's guts but I'm not a 14 year old boy.  Morgan's belief that all life is precious was the RIGHT THING.  It didn't make him boring him; it made him complex and human and in the hands of an actor like Lennie James, Morgan was an amazing character.  ANYBODY could play the killing machine that Morgan's become.

You are absolutely right.  Carl's deathbed scene was total bullshit.  That's why so many people found themselves wanting Carl to hurry up and die.  I agree that Carl would never want a man like Negan in the life of his loved ones, especially if he wasn't there to watch over them.  The REAL Carl would have told Michonne to take Judith and take her somewhere safe, as far away from Rick as she can get.  That's the only way she will ever survive this world.

[peach]

Totally cosign on the loss of history with Carl.  I still remember just that small moment in the Carl Poppa episode when he was having his angry breakdown with Rick, and accusingly said something about Shane.  "Remember him??". And Rick being wounded by that, finally saying, "Every day.". History.  Now we're supposed to remember some guy named Neil?  I think not.

Although this show has seemed confused by its own history anyway, like when Rick recently explained to Michonne that he once had a partner named Shane.  Umm...do you people even watch the show you write for?

[mightysparrow]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

From what I can tell and what I can remember, Darabont was fired during the making of season 2.  Things he had planned out were gutted because AMC in realizing what a cash cow it had stumbled into somehow thought he should be able to make a full season, after the limited first season's six episodes, on less money.  (Does anybody else remember reading that AMC thought a zombie show could probably get by with fewer zombies and it should be enough to hear them or just suggest them sometimes?  I know I did, and the fact that that has pretty much been the entirety of the much more cheaply made FTWD supports it.)  Hence, we spent a full season sitting on a farm.  Darabont and AMC have been tied up in lawsuits over money ever since.

There were problems with Darbont's storytelling too, particularly in his writing of the female characters, but he's the one who started the series on such an elegiac note mournful for the lives and the world that had been lost.  Now it's all about whatever cheaply gross special effect they can throw in when we can even see it in the dark.

The loss of Darabont meant that there was no-one with any vision running the show.   The original cast was full of Darabont alumni.  Darabont being pushed out left the show vulnerable to choices based on popularity and fanwars.  Caryl, Bethyl, Richonne, Dixonne, Gleggie and all that other bullshit.  Carol became a stand-in for middle-aged women who wanted to be badass and have a sexy boyfriend.  Michonne became a stand-in for Black women who wanted to be badass and have a sexy WHITE boyfriend.  Fanwars generated buzz but helped destroy the show.  Remember when Daryl was interesting?  All these years of holding him out as a chewtoy for fans has left Daryl into a filthy, grunting nobody.  Does anyone want their favourite with Daryl anymore?

All that 'buzz' went to a lot of people's heads.  Can anyone imagine Darabont at a Comic Con, preening like Mick Jagger.  Gimple, Kirkman and the rest began thinking that they were STARS!!!!!!  Traveling in private jets all over the place.  Filling Madison Square Gardens, for fuck's sake.  I've admired Darabont for years but I have no idea what he looks like.  He doesn't need attention; he's a real artist.  You know things are bad when none of the usual suspects are at the mid-season premiere Talking Dead episode.  Nicotero must have drawn the short straw and he looked like he was there because they were holding his family hostage.

I hope Darabont takes AMC and everyone else at TWD for every fucking penny they have.  And then I hope he testifies for Laurie Holden (she HAS to sue) and for any other actors who have a beef with TWD.  And finally, I want a tell-all book that exposes the lot for the group of no-talent posers and wannabes they really are.

[heisenberg]

On 02/03/2018 at 4:33 PM, peach said:

Here's a summary I kinda wrote for myself.  Basically, Rick, Ezekiel, and Maggie did some speechifyin' on top of some trucks to rally all three communities for an All Out War to end their slavery to Negan.  Plan:  trap the Saviors in the Sanctuary with a walker horde, and then take out the outposts.  First Rick dropped by the Sanctuary and told them in plain shooting distance that they were all going to be really super sorry this time, for real though, but they can maybe still surrender.   Then he shot their freaking windows, man. Then there were multiple episodes covering mass confusion and chaotic shooting, and all the Kingdom fighters got slaughtered, but Ezekiel made it out and his tiger got ate by nuclear zombies. Cool!!!!  Rick dropped by the garbage heap for some more Thunderdome action, but this time in his underwear.  Amazeballs.  I think he left with nothing but I can't even remember.

The other part of the plan was Alexandria was left totally unguarded and even unwatched.  Michonne went on a road trip to not help Daryl kill some Saviors.  Because "I just can't."  Then she went home and just sort of walked around and wondered if the war party was going to be home in time for dinner.  Daryl drove a truck into the Sanctuary to let the zombies in and then he just went home, too.  Because whatever.

Carl was neither part of the war party nor the defense (which they didn't mount).  He was just hanging out in the woods looking for some rando, but the rando turned out to be a spiritually pure doctor and a demographic win, as luck would have it.  Gets bit while wandering around with rando, during the war for civilization.  Got back, wrote some letters. Then when the Saviors actually did attack, he at least mounted enough of a defense with smoke bombs so the Alexandrians could escape into the tunnel while Negan burned their houses down.  So he's the only one who did anything right.  Then he went into a sewer tunnel to die.  Rick got in a fistfight with Negan, knocked him on the ground and got ahold of Lucille, and just tapped him with the end and ran away so Negan could finish burning down the neighborhood.  Then Rick and Michonne and Daryl hid in the tunnel, too.

Omg, then there's all the stupid shit Jesus and Tara did.  I can't even write it down. I can't believe it was really this bad. I can't believe they sat in a writers room and, like, laid this out as the plot.

There is also when Maggie goes back to Hilltop with her gang after attacking the Saviors,  the saviors stop them, kill one of them and...  Let them go back to Hilltop!  WTF???

[AngelaHunter]

6 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I don't welcome the return of Killer Morgan.  It might be 'cool' to see him tear out a man's guts but I'm not a 14 year old boy. 

I think it's been pretty obvious for awhile that the target audience is 14-year old boys, or grown men who, these days, seem to be on the 14-year old level.

 

4 hours ago, heisenberg said:

There is also when Maggie goes back to Hilltop with her gang after attacking the Saviors,  the saviors stop them, kill one of them and...  Let them go back to Hilltop!  WTF???

Yabbut - they killed NEIL! I still have not come to terms with that.

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

  I miss my pixel pal (Shiva) more than Carl.

I would as well, if they hadn't turned Shiva into a ridiculous Disney character with human expressions instead of keeping her a tiger. Fucking idiots. Oh, pardon my French. Sorry. I'm drunk, but will need to get a lot drunker to watch tonight's ep.

[SnarkyTart]

4 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I hope Darabont takes AMC and everyone else at TWD for every fucking penny they have.  And then I hope he testifies for Laurie Holden (she HAS to sue) and for any other actors who have a beef with TWD.  And finally, I want a tell-all book that exposes the lot for the group of no-talent posers and wannabes they really are.

It didn't seem enough to just "like" your post since it's one of my favorites ever on TWD forum.  Thank you.

To your final paragraph, I'd like to add last summer's death of stuntman John Bernecker during S8 filming.  OSHA finally finished their investigation just eight weeks ago and issued a citation which stated:

Quote

...the company could have used a number of methods to reduce the risk to those performing stunts on high platforms, including reducing the fall distance, providing personal protective equipment to lower risks or providing spotters with individual crash pads or other equipment to protect performers and help correct an errant fall.

The part in bold is the reason that Bernecker's family is now suing the studio and producers for negligence.  I think it could easily be argued that the proximate cause of Bernecker's death was that the studio did not want to pay for the stunt's safety and didn't have adequate catchers and equipment to accommodate the fall.   

[Nashville]

15 hours ago, magpye29 said:

So much this.  I would be going out of my mind without a book to read--and you never see books anywhere (except maybe with Eugene?).  Board games?  DVDs?  What fun things there are on the show are throwbacks to the 70s and 80s, far better suited to Stranger Things.  No one has a guitar?  No one has anything that runs on solar power?  No one in Alexandria had a pool?  I'm always more jarred by what people DON'T find when they're scavenging, and what they DON'T have in their settled communities.  

I know when you're rebuilding the world, you're going to have a lot of work to do, I get that.  But what are you going to do on your down time?  It can't all be drudge, drudge, drudge.  People have to have a break, have to have fun, have to have social interaction.  

Ok, I’m pretty certain you just described life in pre-CDB Alexandria.  Yeah sure, they were in the middle of a zombie apocalypse same as everybody else - but they still had time to make metal owl sculptures, to obsess over pasta-making machines, to have Friday night dinner parties where Merv from down the block would probably drink a little too much and make a fool out of himself until Millie took him home, just like last week.  Pre-CDB Alexandria had truckloads of “leisure time”.

But here’s the thing: the ASZhats didn’t really have that much leisure time - they just THOUGHT they did.  While I’m certain they all thought they were “pulling together through the hard times”, the truth is they had accidentally stumbled into one of the cushiest rides through the apocalypse possible, and the vast majority were too ignorant to realize it.  The ASZhats threw up their walls and raided the local Publix, and figured that was good enough - nothing else to do but hunker down, put up with the minor inconveniences THEY thought were “hard times”, wait for Somebody In Power to eventually come rescue them (from what - a paucity of pasta varieties?).  Outside of the scouts (Aaron and Heath and their crews) and the Wall workers (Tobin and his crew), most ASZhats had never seen a walker, much less killed one.  And of those groups which HAD ventured out beyond the walls, even the scouts weren’t residents in that world; they were just tourists - and unobservant tourists at that, if they’d missed an entire quarry full of walkers just a day’s walk from home.

The Alexandrians’ “leisure time” was actually wasted time - time which would’ve been better used hardening their defenses, gathering more food / weapons / ammunition, and preparing for the eventuality of harder times.  Deanna said as  much to Rick on their first meeting; her people had no knowledge of the world outside their walls.  And while we have a lot of fun with the trope of CDB destroying every community they find, the truth is Alexandria was already teetering on the edge of the precipice when CDB arrived, and didn’t know it.  So while I’m sure the ASZhats enjoyed their downtime, I’d be willing to bet memories of those periods of frivolity would not be their immediate reflection when a sizable Walker horde - or the Saviors - came to gate-crash the party.

 

Quote

We're never going to have someone like Carl on the show again, because we're never going to have the depth of history with another kid.  Not with the hat, with the chocolate pudding, with the ties to other characters, with the situational shorthand. 

Echo THAT.  Gimp has never shown any talent for character development of a depth beyond that of sweat, nor has he ever indicated any appreciation of same - and I can’t say I expect much better from whatever Gimp puppet showrunner has kissed enough ass to take Gimp’s place.  So I expect the halcyon days of actual character development are long gone.

 

Quote

I think this is why Carl's sudden turnaround is ringing so false to us.  We KNOW Carl would never have forgiven Negan's brutal slaying of Abraham and Glenn, would never have advocated Negan being a part of Judith's life.  For him to urge that on Rick is such a betrayal of the characters and the audience.

Exactly.  Carl - the kid who...

• Watched Negan bash the heads of both Abraham and Glenn into strawberry preserves.
• Snuck onto a Savior supply truck for the express purpose of assassinating Negan.
• Watched Negan gut a man in the street THEN order a bullet put through Olivia’s head.
• Almost had his arm amputated at Negan’s order (BTW - thanks, Shiva!).

...that Carl is going to be entertaining happy-puppy thoughts of Good Ol’ Reformed Uncle Negan hugging up on Judith?  

Believe that, and boy howdy have I got some primo Las Vegas beachfront property for YOU.  :P

[peach]

4 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Exactly.  Carl - the kid who...

• Watched Negan bash the heads of both Abraham and Glenn into strawberry preserves.
• Snuck onto a Savior supply truck for the express purpose of assassinating Negan.
• Watched Negan gut a man in the street THEN order a bullet put through Olivia’s head.
• Almost had his arm amputated at Negan’s order (BTW - thanks, Shiva!).

 

Negan also burned his damn mattress.  #neverforget
 

7 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

From what I can tell and what I can remember, Darabont was fired during the making of season 2.  Things he had planned out were gutted because AMC in realizing what a cash cow it had stumbled into somehow thought he should be able to make a full season, after the limited first season's six episodes, on less money.  (Does anybody else remember reading that AMC thought a zombie show could probably get by with fewer zombies and it should be enough to hear them or just suggest them sometimes?  I know I did, and the fact that that has pretty much been the entirety of the much more cheaply made FTWD supports it.)  Hence, we spent a full season sitting on a farm.  Darabont and AMC have been tied up in lawsuits over money ever since.

There were problems with Darbont's storytelling too, particularly in his writing of the female characters, but he's the one who started the series on such an elegiac note mournful for the lives and the world that had been lost.  Now it's all about whatever cheaply gross special effect they can throw in when we can even see it in the dark.

Is it possible that they give such little story time to the original cast members because Darabont receives some type of credit for "creating" them for television?  I realize Kirkman created them originally, but Darabont adapted them, and even came up with his own, like Daryl.   I know that on the the daily soaps different writers write for specific characters and get paid for when those characters are used.  And if you "create" a character from scratch you get some kind of royalty type thing for them. 

I'm just wondering if there's a something similar at play, so they reduce the core cast members' time as much as possible to stick it to Darabont, and kill them off when they can.  Even back to Laurie Holden, which all the behind the scenes drama seemed to suggest that Glen Mazarra killed her off out of spite when he was going out.  They even went back and reshot her death scenes because they were so awful.  MORE awful that what happened to Andrea in the final result we saw.  Killing Carl spites Darabont AND Kirkman who is also suing them over royalties and such. 
 

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, peach said:

Negan also burned his damn mattress.  #neverforget
 

Is it possible that they give such little story time to the original cast members because Darabont receives some type of credit for "creating" them for television?  I realize Kirkman created them originally, but Darabont adapted them, and even came up with his own, like Daryl.   I know that on the the daily soaps different writers write for specific characters and get paid for when those characters are used.  And if you "create" a character from scratch you get some kind of royalty type thing for them. 

I'm just wondering if there's a something similar at play, so they reduce the core cast members' time as much as possible to stick it to Darabont, and kill them off when they can.  Even back to Laurie Holden, which all the behind the scenes drama seemed to suggest that Glen Mazarra killed her off out of spite when he was going out.  They even went back and reshot her death scenes because they were so awful.  MORE awful that what happened to Andrea in the final result we saw.  Killing Carl spites Darabont AND Kirkman who is also suing them over royalties and such. 
 

Depends on how invested TPTB would be in cutting off their own nose to spite their face; they’d be totally trashing their own total bottom line just to screw some individuals out of what are (probably) single-digit royalty percentages.  And that strategy’s effect would be minor in both Darabont’s and Kirkman’s cases unless they kill off the entire OG - which I think anybody (even Gimp, for God’s sake) knows would be consigning the series to cancellation.

[peach]

2 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Depends on how invested TPTB would be in cutting off their own nose to spite their face; they’d be totally trashing their own total bottom line just to screw some individuals out of what are (probably) single-digit royalty percentages.  And that strategy’s effect would be minor in both Darabont’s and Kirkman’s cases unless they kill off the entire OG - which I think anybody (even Gimp, for God’s sake) knows would be consigning the series to cancellation.

I think they eat spite for breakfast.

[AngelaHunter]

17 minutes ago, peach said:

They even went back and reshot her death scenes because they were so awful.

You mean it was worse than the one we saw, where she was so stupid she couldn't stop monologuing even to save her life? I never read the comics, but I hated how the show made it seem she deserved to die this way because she was a fool and a "slut" which so many fans seemed to agree with. Of course a grown woman who has sex with two men who are not her husbands is a slut. Time warp back to the 1950s or earlier, where all impure women had to punished (as was Lorie), in the minds of TPTB. I'm surprised Rosita and Michonne are allowed to get away with that. Oh, wait - I think I know.

[peach]

11 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

You mean it was worse than the one we saw, where she was so stupid she couldn't stop monologuing even to save her life?

They just had Milton eat her, and the gang found her later long dead.  They didn't give her a goodbye scene with Michonne, etc.  Which, I don't care if she monologued, core characters should get a goodbye scene and not something as crappy as that.  Glenn didn't get shit.  They went overboard for Carl, obviously, probably out of guilt.  I realize this is getting a little bit off topic, but I'm glad we were able to squeeze five pages of hate out of this thread.  lol
http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/04/07/the-walking-deads-finale-reshoots-revealed/

[heisenberg]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Believe that, and boy howdy have I got some primo Las Vegas beachfront property for YOU.  :P

Is it time sharing? I'm interested!  :-)

[Anela]

On February 26, 2018 at 8:08 PM, The Mighty Peanut said:

I imagine there was a conversation to this effect: 

Mr. Gimple, sir...

Yes?

So, and this was no ones fault, sir, but this character Gavin appears to demonstrate a bit of nuance...

What dat?

Well, it's like with him you get the sense that the world is neither happytime ren faire nor a Saw movie, and that he could be redeemable given circumstances remarkably like the ones Carl is dying for, and...sir, what do we do with Gavin?

......Kill him with a stick. Then give Negan his own tomato garden.

'Kay.

I was going to ask who Gavin is, but I think I remember... 

On February 26, 2018 at 10:40 PM, MVFrostsMyPie said:

It's like this show's been bitten and is taking at least 3 seasons to bite the dust while we're stuck with a smorgasbord of never-ending monologues. Just turn into a zombie already!

Reading this thread tonight, just brought this to mind:

[festivus]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Exactly.  Carl - the kid who...

• Watched Negan bash the heads of both Abraham and Glenn into strawberry preserves.
• Snuck onto a Savior supply truck for the express purpose of assassinating Negan.
• Watched Negan gut a man in the street THEN order a bullet put through Olivia’s head.
• Almost had his arm amputated at Negan’s order (BTW - thanks, Shiva!).

...that Carl is going to be entertaining happy-puppy thoughts of Good Ol’ Reformed Uncle Negan hugging up on Judith?  

Believe that, and boy howdy have I got some primo Las Vegas beachfront property for YOU.  :P

Yeah and according to this dumbass show it all happened only two to three weeks ago. 

 

With all the lawsuits it's no wonder the writers suck. They must be paying them with those nasty orange circus peanuts. I'll tell y'all where all the good writers are, they're over on The Magicians. A show that knows how to keep people in character and write a damn fine plot.

2 hours ago, peach said:

Negan also burned his damn mattress.  #neverforget
 

lol.

[oakville]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

Ok, I’m pretty certain you just described life in pre-CDB Alexandria.  Yeah sure, they were in the middle of a zombie apocalypse same as everybody else - but they still had time to make metal owl sculptures, to obsess over pasta-making machines, to have Friday night dinner parties where Merv from down the block would probably drink a little too much and make a fool out of himself until Millie took him home, just like last week.  Pre-CDB Alexandria had truckloads of “leisure time”.

But here’s the thing: the ASZhats didn’t really have that much leisure time - they just THOUGHT they did.  While I’m certain they all thought they were “pulling together through the hard times”, the truth is they had accidentally stumbled into one of the cushiest rides through the apocalypse possible, and the vast majority were too ignorant to realize it.  The ASZhats threw up their walls and raided the local Publix, and figured that was good enough - nothing else to do but hunker down, put up with the minor inconveniences THEY thought were “hard times”, wait for Somebody In Power to eventually come rescue them (from what - a paucity of pasta varieties?).  Outside of the scouts (Aaron and Heath and their crews) and the Wall workers (Tobin and his crew), most ASZhats had never seen a walker, much less killed one.  And of those groups which HAD ventured out beyond the walls, even the scouts weren’t residents in that world; they were just tourists - and unobservant tourists at that, if they’d missed an entire quarry full of walkers just a day’s walk from home.

The Alexandrians’ “leisure time” was actually wasted time - time which would’ve been better used hardening their defenses, gathering more food / weapons / ammunition, and preparing for the eventuality of harder times.  Deanna said as  much to Rick on their first meeting; her people had no knowledge of the world outside their walls.  And while we have a lot of fun with the trope of CDB destroying every community they find, the truth is Alexandria was already teetering on the edge of the precipice when CDB arrived, and didn’t know it.  So while I’m sure the ASZhats enjoyed their downtime, I’d be willing to bet memories of those periods of frivolity would not be their immediate reflection when a sizable Walker horde - or the Saviors - came to gate-crash the party.

 

Echo THAT.  Gimp has never shown any talent for character development of a depth beyond that of sweat, nor has he ever indicated any appreciation of same - and I can’t say I expect much better from whatever Gimp puppet showrunner has kissed enough ass to take Gimp’s place.  So I expect the halcyon days of actual character development are long gone.

 

Exactly.  Carl - the kid who...

• Watched Negan bash the heads of both Abraham and Glenn into strawberry preserves.
• Snuck onto a Savior supply truck for the express purpose of assassinating Negan.
• Watched Negan gut a man in the street THEN order a bullet put through Olivia’s head.
• Almost had his arm amputated at Negan’s order (BTW - thanks, Shiva!).

...that Carl is going to be entertaining happy-puppy thoughts of Good Ol’ Reformed Uncle Negan hugging up on Judith?  

Believe that, and boy howdy have I got some primo Las Vegas beachfront property for YOU.  :P

Do the writers watch previous episodes of the show? It makes no sense that Carl would be happy with Negan living with Rick & Judith

On 3/1/2018 at 7:17 PM, SnarkyTart said:

^^^Plus the extra special added bonus of watching all of the above crap pile in the dark!

The lack of lighting on the show is very annoying.

[AngelaHunter]

6 minutes ago, oakville said:

The lack of lighting on the show is very annoying.

Maybe they think that if we can't see what's happening we won't know how much it sucks?

[Anela]

3 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

You mean it was worse than the one we saw, where she was so stupid she couldn't stop monologuing even to save her life? I never read the comics, but I hated how the show made it seem she deserved to die this way because she was a fool and a "slut" which so many fans seemed to agree with. Of course a grown woman who has sex with two men who are not her husbands is a slut. Time warp back to the 1950s or earlier, where all impure women had to punished (as was Lorie), in the minds of TPTB. I'm surprised Rosita and Michonne are allowed to get away with that. Oh, wait - I think I know.

I thought she was an idiot, for going back to the Governor, after her friends old her how bad he was. Although they didn't go back for her at the farm, so maybe that was supposed to play into it all. 

The hate for Lori has followed the actress to other shows. I only remember hating her, when it seemed like she was encouraging Rick to "take care of" Shane, and then also when she then acted like he was a monster for killing him, when Shane was getting ready to kill *him*. 

[queenanne]

On 2/25/2018 at 10:57 PM, tennisgurl said:

RIP Carl. That death went on WAY too long, but it ended on what was actually an appropriately somber note, and Andrew, Danai, and Chandler knocked it out of the park. Poor Michonne and Rick. Still sucks that Carl died. It seems wrong, even after all these months. 

Morgan literally ripped a guys guts out. Awesome. 

Get Negan out of that dream sequence right fucking now, show! It was bad enough when they stuck traitorous Eugene in there multiple times, but Negan? Not gonna happen. That dude has a one way ticket to a walker pit as far as I am concerned. 

 

On 2/26/2018 at 2:13 AM, TrininisaScorp said:

Morgan has no "the middle" in his operating system, then?  Geez...that was pretty amazingly gross with the intestines.

my one primary thought during this episode:  "Remind me never to make Morgan mad at me."

I figure Carl had to be killed primarily as a delaying tactic, though shortsighted as this means for teenage character development, we're pretty much stuck with cipher Enid; but if we've got ourselves a "new generation" we have to do better for, and don't wind up doing better for at some time at which we can actually see "better" as a speck on the horizon; people start to wonder why there's no forward motion.  In short:  Carl had to die so that the series can cross their fingers on rebooting its earnestness to "save things for Judith's generation".  If I were Enid's actress, I'd probably ask my agent to start leaving lures for more work for me, because if Carl can't survive I doubt Enid will.