S04.E06: Pizza Rolls, Gender Roles, and Jazz Rolls

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Jazzers,

This is the episode thread to discuss things that happen in the Season 4 Episode 6.  Per the cable listing, the things in the quote box will be featured.  So much to see.  So much to say.  So many ways to stay on topic.  If you would like to talk about other things, head on over to those threads.  They are awaiting your bon mots.  

Quote

The entire family support Jazz's weight loss effort by having a family soccer match.  Meanwhile, Jazz resumes hypnotherapy to control her binge eating; helps her friend raise money for  hormones; and gathers  the courage to ask Victoria out.

[Tenarife60]

This is the first episode I've seen this season and only saw a few from other seasons, but I did wonder if I was the only one who was curious how do these kids afford the cost of hormones, doctor bills, blood work, etc.  With Jazz, I'm sure she gets money from TLC since it's her show, and Noelle might be paying for her hormones that way too since she is on many of the episodes and I'm sure she gets paid for each appearance, but what about the others?  There are a lot of adults with jobs who can't afford the cost of transition.  In some places you can get Medicaid if you're destitute and I think that will pay the cost.

[seasons]

Random thoughts...

No adult / parent present at the car wash to keep an eye on things? (Besides TLC people?)

TLC production assistant posing as car wash heckler? (Common on "Big Fat Fabulous Life")

Mom really would benefit from a makeover. Lose those horrible glasses and update the hair.

No one will sit with Jazz at school for lunch? 

I sincerely wish these kids happiness. I can't even begin to imagine what they go through.

Edited February 7, 2018 by seasons

[Tenarife60]

22 minutes ago, seasons said:

 

TLC production assistant posing as car wash heckler? (Common on "Big Fat Fabulous Life")

 

That's what I thought too. I don't doubt things like that don't happen, but what are the odds he would pull up with camera's around and an entire crew and start 'speaking his mind."  That was one of the reasons I stopped watching the show last season because someone was saying the boy Jazz went on a date with was an actor they paid to appear on the show.  

[MegD]

Jazz continues to blame everyone but herself for her weight issues. It's not her fault that she's eating things she shouldn't. Everyone else should refrain from bringing anything she might like into the house because at 17 she has absolutely no self-control. Look, princess, that's not how the world works. It also shows me that she's not really that dedicated to getting the surgery except on her terms, which is unrealistic. If she can't do what Dr. Marci wants now, how is she going to do all of the followup that goes into post-op?

Jazz completely manipulated her parents into the online school. The second that it looked like Greg was going to tell her no, Jeanette shut him down and Jazz knew exactly what to say to get her way. This is just going to end with Jazz camped out in her bed, binge eating and isolating herself. I think some of it is a TLC thing so she can be filmed more without having to worry about school time, but it won't help her.

She still thinks the hypnotherapist is the magic bullet to being skinny.

I'm so incredibly tired of every person who disagrees with Jazz being labeled a "hater." It's obnoxious. I can see, on some level, his argument. It is difficult for someone who isn't super accepting of alternative lifestyles to begin with to understand self-love. Lynn still looks pretty masculine. For all of Jazz's "we love ourselves," from the external, it appears that she does not as she is changing her outside appearance to match her internal, so she doesn't love who she is. It's not helped that Jazz forgets the correct pronouns during the conversation. She refers to Lynn as "he" and "she" when talking with the "hater." She comes across so self-righteous when she acts like this.

[Cotypubby]

1 hour ago, Tenarife60 said:

That's what I thought too. I don't doubt things like that don't happen, but what are the odds he would pull up with camera's around and an entire crew and start 'speaking his mind."  That was one of the reasons I stopped watching the show last season because someone was saying the boy Jazz went on a date with was an actor they paid to appear on the show.  

Yeah something about that scene seemed really fishy to me. Maybe the guys voice, I don’t know, he sounded fake. Like he either wanted to play to the cameras or was a TLC plant. 

[gingerella]

I just can't with this shit! This kid is so dysfunctional and emotionally fucked up thwt it boggles the mind that anyone would do this surgery this year or at all until or unless she matures. Bitching about her brothers working her hard, so she runs away from it and complains  that they should either "support her or STFU". Then she once again tells the hypnotherapist that she loves to eat so much that it makes her sad to think about stopping thwt behavior. HELLO? IS ANYONE WITH A FULL BRAIN LISTENING?!? I can only hope the her original therapist will not write a letter until she truly is mature enough to follow through with the post surgical things she'll have to do, some forever, like dilation. I can totally see her not doing her dilation and lying about it and then being shocked that her ne vaj close sup or becomes non functional, and she'll then blame that on the surgeons, doctors and anybody else other than herself. What a nightmare patient she is.

 

ETA: Jeanette whining about how harrrrd it is on HER and nobody asked HER and it will affect HER life so much. You know what lady, you're not a fucking victim here! Be a damn parent and tell your underage child that NO, she cannot stay home and home school herself because she does not have the self discipline to do that.  Period, end of story. Neeeeeeext!

Edited February 7, 2018 by gingerella

[Pollo Loco]

So I'm a little confused about Lynn's financial situation. She works and all her money goes towards something to do with her  transitioning(I can't remember if she actually specified exactly). She can't afford the hormones to start transitioning though, hence the car wash to raise $1000. I'm wondering what happens if she starts the hormones(I have no idea how far $1000 will take you) but then can't continue them long term due to cost and has to stop? My understanding is that you have to take the hormones indefinitely or you start to transition back and/or really mess up your body. 

I'm also wondering if anyone knows why Jojo(curly bob) appears (and sounds) so much more feminine than Noelle? I thought they were all about the same age and she said she transitioned 3-4? years ago so that would put her about 13 or 14? I think Noelle transitioned fairly recently but at least a year ago, can even a couple years earlier make a huge difference or is it more to do with genetics or combo of?

I also found it interesting that Noelle said she'd have short hair if she could still look female(implying that she wouldn't), yet her voice is very much masculine sounding which, short hair or long, the voice would be a pretty big giveaway.  I'm aware that not every transgender person gets bottom surgery but I would think they'd want to come across as female (ie altering their vocal tone)as they could which is why the decidedly male tone tends to throw me a little aka Kaitlyn Jenner. I'm hoping this doesn't come off as insulting, just genuinely curious. 

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, seasons said:

No adult / parent present at the car wash to keep an eye on things? (Besides TLC people?

They are juniors and seniors in high school and older, we never had that for even official school fundraiser in high school much less something private like this.

It could have been staged but lots of people do like to speak their mind on camera or just in public because people can be asholes.

Edited February 7, 2018 by biakbiak

[Maricopa]

I need someone to transplain this to me...what's the meaning of Jazz's Tshirt, "Pizza rolls, not gender roles...?" Isn't the whole point of identifying as a gender that there is a clear profile of male or female gender role (with which I was already confused, didn't women try to get away from this back in the 60s)? I'm getting lost here.

That said, I am liking Greg more and more. The family soccer game seemed really fun, wholesome, and helping Jazz get on track. The grandparents are adorable.

And now I AM going to be a snarky gal...how bout training that carwash hose on Jazz's hair? Ack. Would a shampoo kill you, hun?

[janedi]

I wrote down my thoughts as I watched the episode.

-Is it just me? or did Jazz have a growth spurt? I'm not sure if TLC edits everything in chronological order or not. But I swear Jazz looked noticeably bigger in this episode. And I don't just mean her weight. She looked taller. In the kitchen scene at the beginning I noticed she is almost as tall as the shorter twin (Griffen I believe) now. And her voice sounded deeper at the beginning of the episode as well. Oh and I loved how Jazz pretended to be too fat to play soccer then and then destroyed the whole family on the field later in the episode. Now we know Jazz is just being plain ole lazy when she acts this way.

- Kudos to the twins for standing up to Jazz. I am so happy they didn't back down and were actually honest and didnt take any of Jazz's bullshit. My heart soared when Sander told Jazz he was going to put fries in the freezer despite what Jazz wants. It's about time the other siblings start standing up for themselves and stop letting her run the family. Jazz needs to spend more time with her father and brothers and less time with her mother.

- I doubt Jazz came up with the idea for the car wash. She said herself she spends most of her time in her room binging and eating. The producers probably came up with the idea, and they are probably behind  Jazz confronting Maya brother and most of the activist scenes on this show( with Jeanette's help of course). In fact I doubt jazz ever hangs out with any of these other trans and lgbt kids when the cameras aren't rolling. I'm not even convinced she and noelle are real friends or even like each other.

-This hypnotherapy story line is dumb and a waste of whoevers money is being used to pay for it. I have said once and I'll say it again. Jazz is not going to lose weight. She will put on a show to get footage for the show, but once the cameras leave, I bet she goes right back to stuffing her face

-I hate the red haired girl. She is creepy. They need to get rid of her. Why is she hanging out with teenagers anyway? I have no doubt she is just using jazz to get attention for herself.

- Greg needs to spend more time with Jazz, especially if they let Jazz do virtual schooling. He needs to get her away from Jeanette as much as possible. It's obvious that he's often in the dark about what goes in her life. I think he would be much more assertive with Jazz if Jeanette isn't there to undermine him. If I were him I would start taking jazz on little road trips on the weekend. Away from Jeanette, and the bubble that she's in, so she can experience the real world for once.

- I'm so glad that Jeanette will have to deal with Jazz all day long if she does virtual schooling. It serves her right. She has been using Jazz to get attention for herself her whole life. Obviously she had Jazz's future all planned out from the beginning. She was so sure that Jazz would just magically morph into the perfect skinny, happy,little trans daughter. And she would be able parade her around like a trophy and be seen as the hero mom. Well, too bad lady.  Things didn't turn out the way you planned and now you want to cry??? And of course she won't be able to give Jazz structure, she has let Jazz disrespect all the adults in her life and do whatever the hell she wants for years. Jazz is not going to just start taking orders from her now.   I have no sympathy.

- I know it was mean But LOL'ed at grandpa's joke. I love how he's never been afraid of offending Jazz. My grandpa is the same way. I have a feeling that Jazz and Grandpa hate each other. LOL

- I enjoyed the soccer match, it actually felt real and genuine. Jazz actually played for real instead of putting on a front. I want to see more of the family being real and honest and less preaching about trans stuff.

-And we're back to the scripted crap. Does anyone believe Jazz is actually friends with these kids??? This is TLC's car wash, not Jazz's. Seems like most of the people at the car wash are parents and relatives of the kids in the group, not real people. So fake. The "hater" was so fake. And he wasn't even being hateful. He didn't call any one names nor was he rude. People have a right to an opinion.

- Okay we are at the beach scene. I swear Jazz looks like she gained more weight here. She's huge. They must be airing the scenes out of order. That's the only explanation.

-Someone please tell Jazz to stop saying "oh hell to no/yes" its very annoying.

- Again red haired girl is creepy. Stop hanging with teenagers you weirdo!

- I actually like seeing Jazz with Victoria, she was adorable when she asked her out, but I'm not sure Victoria is into her. Jazz is so immature. She needs to find a younger girl, who's more on her maturity level. I thought the date was this episode, but I guess it's next week.

Edited February 7, 2018 by janedi

[Visaman666]

6 hours ago, Tenarife60 said:

This is the first episode I've seen this season and only saw a few from other seasons, but I did wonder if I was the only one who was curious how do these kids afford the cost of hormones, doctor bills, blood work, etc.  With Jazz, I'm sure she gets money from TLC since it's her show, and Noelle might be paying for her hormones that way too since she is on many of the episodes and I'm sure she gets paid for each appearance, but what about the others?  There are a lot of adults with jobs who can't afford the cost of transition.  In some places you can get Medicaid if you're destitute and I think that will pay the cost.

In Canada, where I am, it is covered by provincial nedical plans. I might pay a nominal fee, but it's mostly covered. 

[Visaman666]

44 minutes ago, Maricopa said:

I need someone to transplain this to me...what's the meaning of Jazz's Tshirt, "Pizza rolls, not gender roles...?" Isn't the whole point of identifying as a gender that there is a clear profile of male or female gender role (with which I was already confused, didn't women try to get away from this back in the 60s)? I'm getting lost here.

That said, I am liking Greg more and more. The family soccer game seemed really fun, wholesome, and helping Jazz get on track. The grandparents are adorable.

And now I AM going to be a snarky gal...how bout training that carwash hose on Jazz's hair? Ack. Would a shampoo kill you, hun?

It means that Jazz woukd rather eat Pizza than lose the weight. I thought that Jazz Rolls, meant that she is a good Soccer player. Or, that she is a playa with the chicks? 

[Visaman666]

The redhead was a contestant on The Voice, Season 3. Her name is Michaela Paige, and she is 22.

She is on the show to boost her profile, and spread her anti bullying message Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Visaman666

[Visaman666]

One episode dealing with Hurricane Irma was filmed on August 30, 2017.

In this current episode, the twins are home from school, so could it be Thanksgiving? That might explain the growth spurt and weight gain.

[kicotan]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

ETA: Jeanette whining about how harrrrd it is on HER and nobody asked HER and it will affect HER life so much. You know what lady, you're not a fucking victim here! Be a damn parent and tell your underage child that NO, she cannot stay home and home school herself because she does not have the self discipline to do that.  Period, end of story. Neeeeeeext!

Agreed.  Jeanette opined about how one puts their kids needs before their own, which is a good thing, BUT I think Jeanette has a hard time sussing out "needs" vs "wants".  Lots of kids don't want to go to/don't like formal school for various reasons, but that doesn't mean they NEED to stay home from it, especially if they isolate themselves and binge eat in the privacy of their bedroom before they even go with the homeschool/online school option.

 

1 hour ago, Maricopa said:

I am liking Greg more and more. The family soccer game seemed really fun, wholesome, and helping Jazz get on track. The grandparents are adorable.

Yes!  I think the grandparents are a hoot!  They seem fun and genuinely interested and involved.  The soccer game was a great idea and got me wondering if there are any co-ed youth soccer leagues in their area?  I remember from previous seasons they mentioned that Jazz was involved with soccer teams until the issue of girl team/boy team came up and then she wasn't allowed on the girl's team anymore so she quit playing.

Putting more stock in hypnotherapy than embracing a healthy diet and putting the effort into burning calories seems ridiculous to me.  I hope Jazz realizes the hypnotherapist won't be writing one of those letters she needs.

[janey99]

2 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

It means that Jazz woukd rather eat Pizza than lose the weight. I thought that Jazz Rolls, meant that she is a good Soccer player. Or, that she is a playa with the chicks? 

I'm pretty sure the "Jazz rolls" was a reference to her pot belly/spare tire that you could see through the thin material of the T shirt.

Edited February 7, 2018 by janey99
edited to correct spelling

[maggiegil]

Why on earth are they entertaining the idea of virtual school rather than trying to fix the problems that Jazz has at school? These problems interacting with other people aren't going to go away by ignoring them. Every facet of life beyond high school, be it college, work or relationships requires you to deal with people, often people with different experiences, people you don't like and if you don't have the skills to have successful interactions, I don't know how far you can go

Jeanette doesn't seem to be able to motivate Jazz to do things now before this extra added pressure, I hope if they go through with this terrible plan that they find some way to give structure or motivation.

I think Jazz does a lot of magical thinking like "if I wanted to, I would be valedictorian", "my weight gain is other peoples fault because they're tempting me", "hypnosis will fix my eating ", "a vagina will make me complete" etc

I hope its just for the show that Jazz seems to only talk about her transition with people and that outside the show shes a more rounded person who is as smart as she claims

[Madding crowd]

I think the grandpa’s comment is mean and fat shaming a sensitive teenager is never going to help her lose weight. He is probably the type of man who badgers the grandma into not eating so she stays thin.

Jazz already has problems with isolation, virtual school would be the worst thing for her. I’m not sure she has real friends beyond what was drummed up by TLC-I just don’t see her as being close to anyone which is sad.

[SunnyBeBe]

So true Maggiegil!  I wonder if the problem at school is a symptom of Jazz's dysfunction.  Hiding at home won't help it. I wonder if Jazz dislikes school, because she isn't catered to like she is at home.  She seems to expect things to go according to her wishes and if not, she wants to withdraw.  Sometimes, you have to learn how to deal with things you don't like.  How will she deal with college, jobs, her community?  I agree with others who say why not tell Jazz that she may change schools, but, she must stay in an actual school.  She needs the structure.....both parents agree on this. They seem to have no backbone when it comes to her.  

I have a different take on the hypnotherapy.  It seemed to help Jazz and if so, incorporate it into her actual therapy.  I was hypnotized once, so, I know it's real.  (Long story, but, I have no doubt it can be very effective.)

Grandpa's rude comment about Jazz rolls was mean and I didn't appreciate it at all.  THAT'S when her parents should stand up for her.  Insulting people about their weight is not helpful and in fact is harmful to their spirit.  I didn't appreciate that at all. And he's a doctor.  Please.  What's wrong with him?  It was quite mature of Jazz to let that roll right off her back. (Pardon the pun.)  I really wish the family would GET INFORMED ABOUT EATING DISORDERS.  All this talk about willpower is annoying me.  It's much biggie than that.  

With no real yearnings for romance, I can't see how a person would develop a romantic relationship.  And it doesn't seem like Jazz really wants it.  She's just going through the motions. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Kid]

8 hours ago, gingerella said:

Jeanette whining about how harrrrd it is on HER and nobody asked HER and it will affect HER life so much. You know what lady, you're not a fucking victim here! Be a damn parent and tell your underage child that NO, she cannot stay home and home school herself because she does not have the self discipline to do that.  Period, end of story. Neeeeeeext!

Amen, sister!!!!   If there is one issue on which they should have drawn the line,  this is it. She’s  got two years left - buck up buttercup!!!

Also note how Jazz is  OK with the hypnotherapist  which, in my opinion, is the quack of the psychological/psychiatrist world. That is my opinion of course. The therapist that could actually do Jazz some good is her original therapist who wants to get to the root of the issues. Instead, Jazz wants the magic lady to just turn off her urge to eat by  “rewiring her brain.”

Jazz has consistently resisted therapy which she needs desperately but yet she can’t wait to get to the hypnotherapist because she sees that as a quick fix. It’s almost like when you weigh 600 pounds you think that weight-loss surgery is the magic bullet.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Kid

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm no expert in hypnotherapy, but, it focuses on the subconscious.  That's why it can be effective.  Based on my experience with it, I changed my mind from thinking it wasn't real to having a lot of faith in it. Granted, for some people, it might not be effective. Anyone know the name of that hypnotherapist?  She looks awfully familiar.  

[ClareWalks]

Jazz literally demanded that her brothers help her lose weight, then they play soccer with her and she rips them a new one for making her exercise. This bitch.

[MegD]

I realized something this morning. I am willing to bet that part of Jazz's motivation to homeschool is that it's one more barrier to getting her surgery removed. If she's not in school, Greg can't suggest that she wait until she graduates or even the summer for her surgery. And we all know Jazz wants her surgery NOW!

2 hours ago, maggiegil said:

I think Jazz does a lot of magical thinking like "if I wanted to, I would be valedictorian", "my weight gain is other peoples fault because they're tempting me", "hypnosis will fix my eating ", "a vagina will make me complete" etc

I absolutely agree. To me, it is a sign of her immaturity. It's one thing to say "I wish you wouldn't have Hot Pockets in the house because they are my favorites and I'm really trying to avoid them" and another to say that it's everyone else's fault that I've gained weight because they have snacks in the house and I have to taste them. I mean she couldn't even bypass the cheese samples (several of them) at the grocery store. I guess it was Fresh Market's fault (I recognized the signage) because how dare they have samples when they know Jazz is dieting.

I don't buy for a second that it's anything other than having to follow rules and a desire to get her surgery as fast as possible. I thought she was a good student and was involved in several clubs and sports. I also wonder if some of this is TLC driven so that they have more access to filming her. They can't film at school, but if she's homeschooled, then there's no limits on their access.

I agree with the idea that Jazz isn't friends with the other trans & LGBQT kids when the cameras are off. She's incredibly standoffish and rude. I would avoid her without question, not because she's trans, but because she's such an obnoxious, self-centered brat. I think a lot of the kids (Noelle, creepy Micheale, I'm looking at you) around Jazz seem to be doing it to further their own needs, whether it's funding their own transitions or trying to become relevant again after not making much headway on the  Voice. Noelle, I think, is also using it to further her platform as a trans speaker and authority. Although I find her a little bratty and self-righteous, I think a lot of that is her age as well. I know that from time to time at her age, I could be pig headed and "it's my way or the highway" as well. I grew out of it and I hope that Noelle will as well. Jazz. on the other hand, seems to espouse whatever she's told to say. Her statements never vary and the descriptions never change. One would think that as she's gotten older, she would be better equipped to explain how she felt as a child other than "a girl brain in a boy body" and that going through male puberty would have been "torture". Instead, she continues to just say it would have been "torture" without explanation. When dealing with an audience that doesn't buy her viewpoint, those explanations could help to have them understand her viewporint.

I didn't find Grandpa's joke that offensive. It was a little mean but every adult has been dancing around her weight issue and it was about time one of them called her on it. I mean, she demands that the twins help her lose weight and then she bitches when they do. She's constantly catered to and it's not helping her. That tiny walk with her parents wasn't "burning calories," it was a brief stroll outside. The longer they focus on her weight, the more I'm reminded of Whitney's interactions with her parents on My Big Fat Fabulous Life, and that's just so going well.....

[Madding crowd]

If the grandpa had spoke with her privately I would agree, but he commented on her body in front of everyone. Teens are very self conscious and I don’t see it helpful to point out someone’s rolls of fat. 

[gingerella]

I can see why some would think Grandpa was being mean by fat shaming Jazz, but on the other hand, he's had waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more exposure to her self-absorbed, bratty, entitled self far longer than we have. I get the feeling that her grandparents love her unconditionally, regardless of gender, but they're also fed up with her brattiness, which I'm sure they can acknowledge is fueled by their own daughter. They've had some very open convos with Jazz and with her mother separately over the lifetime of this show and nothing ever seems to stick with Jazz or her mother. So yeah, I can see how Jack was maybe teasing her with some tough love because to be blunt, Jazz is totally full of shit when it comes to pretty much everything. She demands people do stuff for her all the time, but she never does what she needs to do for herself to make shit happen. She wont put in the hard work to lose the weight for a surgery she whines about every second of every day. She has an eating disorder and pretty much has yelled it from the rooftops to anyone who'll listen, but the only one who's heard her so far is her original therapist and probably her siblings who seem exhausted with her. In fact, to me, all 3 siblings seem like they feel obligated to help 'because our sister is transgender and we love her anyway' and there's a level of guilt there, or so it feels in their scenes with her. The boys were very honest with her about her eating and work out issues and they tried to help her by pushing her so she could feel and see what a real legit workout feels and looks like, but she just ran away bitching about them because like most things, if it's not her way, it's the wrong way.

I also think she's wanting to go back to the hypnotherapist because she thinks it's going to be the easiest, shortest route to fixing her temporary weight issues. The hypnotherapist isn't bad, but she's not a legit psychotherapist who has experience dealing with Jazz's transgender issues. That would be her original therapist who seems like she's right on the money. But Jazz pouts in her sessions because she's asking real, legit, tough questions that Jazz is too fucked up and immature to address. The hyno lady is the unicorn and fairy dust version, and I think she's giving false hope to a child who she should be able to see is in need of deeper therapy. In addition to, fine, but not instead of with the hypnosis.

Also, when Jazz and Victoria are talking alone at the beach, it felt sooooo awkward. I have a hard time believing this 'date' potential is real and not manufactured. So far, every 'date' and 'date prospect' Jazz has had has been created by the producers. Remember that creepy kid who seems gay, who she knew when they were little, and he suddenly wants to 'show her love and what she's missing'? That was a creeper sitch. Then the poor guy who went skating with her and whom she basically blew off to his face, I'll bet he regrets agreeing to that made up date on TV. And the blind date in the dark, we all knew that wasn't going to happen no matter how nice that dude was. And now they're trying chicks...and this isn't working either because it just smacks of made up BS. Does TLC think we're all that stupid? I just cant figure out what's in it for Victoria because she seems like she has her shit together.

[Kid]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

I also think she's wanting to go back to the hypnotherapist because she thinks it's going to be the easiest, shortest route to fixing her temporary weight issues. The hypnotherapist isn't bad, but she's not a legit psychotherapist who has experience dealing with Jazz's transgender issues. That would be her original therapist who seems like she's right on the money. But Jazz pouts in her sessions because she's asking real, legit, tough questions that Jazz is too fucked up and immature to address. The hyno lady is the unicorn and fairy dust version, and I think she's giving false hope to a child who she should be able to see is in need of deeper therapy. In addition to, fine, but not instead of with the hypnosis.

This was my point exactly but you said it much better than I!!

[SunnyBeBe]

Making a child feel ashamed about their physical appearance isn't likely to help anyone.  It might even make things worse. I would think a doctor would know this.  IMO, the family or producers, whoever, dropped the ball on that one.  (Pardon the pun.)  Glad grandma got MVP.  She's a feisty lady.  

Jazz does get ruffled a lot and is demanding. No doubt about that.  She admits that she's difficult, HOWEVER, her brothers and her parents are ignorant about eating disorders. They seem to think that you can just snap your fingers, wiggle your nose, and stop eating the wrong things.  It's not that simple. She's not just a person who makes poor choices.   Binge eating, eating to soothe, isolation with food, etc.  is not a simple thing. It's a huge deal.  There are facilities that people can go to for treatment.  She may need that.  Get her evaluated.  People die from eating disorders.  It's like telling a person with anorexia to just eat a burger.  It doesn't work that way.  Since, they don't get it and neither do her doctors, I understand why she's frustrated.  What more does she have to say to get the help she needs? 

Also, when they were kicking the ball around in the yard, the brothers were pointing out how out of shape she was.  She KNOWS THIS.  I suspect it was producer driven, but, regardless. they should stop the comments.  It's not helpful, imo.  

Edited February 7, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[RemoteControlFreak]

15 hours ago, Tenarife60 said:

This is the first episode I've seen this season and only saw a few from other seasons, but I did wonder if I was the only one who was curious how do these kids afford the cost of hormones, doctor bills, blood work, etc.  With Jazz, I'm sure she gets money from TLC since it's her show, and Noelle might be paying for her hormones that way too since she is on many of the episodes and I'm sure she gets paid for each appearance, but what about the others?  There are a lot of adults with jobs who can't afford the cost of transition.  In some places you can get Medicaid if you're destitute and I think that will pay the cost.

Most medical insurance pays for some or all gender transition costs. Greg has a real job and presumably Jazz is covered by his insurance. TLC is likely paying for the trips and consultations around the country.

[RemoteControlFreak]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Grandpa's rude comment about Jazz rolls was mean and I didn't appreciate it at all.  THAT'S when her parents should stand up for her.  Insulting people about their weight is not helpful and in fact is harmful to their spirit.  I didn't appreciate that at all. And he's a doctor.  Please.  What's wrong with him?  It was quite mature of Jazz to let that roll right off her back. (Pardon the pun.)  I really wish the family would GET INFORMED ABOUT EATING DISORDERS.  All this talk about willpower is annoying me.  It's much biggie than that.  

He meant it as a joke.  It was a misjudgment on his part. I think he got the message clearly from Jazz that joking wasn't appropriate.

But Jazz did not let it roll off her back. If that were the case, she would have waited until the cameras were off and addressed him privately, instead of making a public case about it on national TV.

This family -- all three generations -- obviously revolves around Jazz, who increasingly acts like a spoiled, entitled, immature brat who is not held to any level of personal responsibility. If the family really cared about her well-being, they'd kill the TV show and let her complete her transition and growing up out of the view of the cameras.

Am I complicit because I watch this show, even though I object to its existence?  Probably.

[calpurnia99]

12 hours ago, gingerella said:

I just can't with this shit! This kid is so dysfunctional and emotionally fucked up thwt it boggles the mind that anyone would do this surgery this year or at all until or unless she matures. Bitching about her brothers working her hard, so she runs away from it and complains  that they should either "support her or STFU". Then she once again tells the hypnotherapist that she loves to eat so much that it makes her sad to think about stopping thwt behavior. HELLO? IS ANYONE WITH A FULL BRAIN LISTENING?!? I can only hope the her original therapist will not write a letter until she truly is mature enough to follow through with the post surgical things she'll have to do, some forever, like dilation. I can totally see her not doing her dilation and lying about it and then being shocked that her ne vaj close sup or becomes non functional, and she'll then blame that on the surgeons, doctors and anybody else other than herself. What a nightmare patient she is.

 

ETA: Jeanette whining about how harrrrd it is on HER and nobody asked HER and it will affect HER life so much. You know what lady, you're not a fucking victim here! Be a damn parent and tell your underage child that NO, she cannot stay home and home school herself because she does not have the self discipline to do that.  Period, end of story. Neeeeeeext!

I had really felt sorry for Jeannette here. I mean we saw that she knows how lazy Jazz is and how unmotivated and how she needs structure. She KNOWS because she said it IS going to be another job for me being on her back, did you study? She is totally against it and the father for once is getting blackmailed into it.. It seemed the opposite of what we usually see. The mom is saying NO NO NO NO and actually really crying! This is her true feelings, NO. But then Jazz is blackmailing: if I didn't have to go to school, I wouldn't have so much stress and I wouldn't have all my issues. The father falls for this line of reasoning. The mother knows exactly what will happen. She will stay in bed, won't sign in to the classes, won't do her work, will watch TV in bed and The Mom is going to have to nag nag nag.  She knows she is being blackmailed and I think we saw her true self when she said What About Me? I did really feel bad that she has allowed this kid to manipulate her and now she is back into a corner. Of course she can say no, but her husband thinks they should do it, otherwise Jazz might kill herself.

The brothers are right about the fitness but the way they went about it was wrong for Jazz. Telling her "you need to do this, you are lazy" is not going to work.  Pushing her past her limits the first day is not going to work. Jazz saying "I don't need exercise my problem is I love food so much" is also wrong. Does she not know that if she exercises she can eat more? Do they not know it takes a plan and consistency, over many months to lose weight and gain fitness?  The brothers should have said we will play soccer this week for 30 minutes at a time, next week 45 minutes and the week after that 60 minutes.  They should have laid out a consistent plan for getting Jazz daily exercise. This would have made sense instead of saying "well you need to start!" "You need to do it" "you are lazy" ..this feels like an attack. Better to lay out a program that can be stuck to. 

She needs a program or a fitness coach and dietitian and a shrink, not a hypnotherapist. Although this hypnotherapist was right on the money when she said the binge eating is a symptom, and tried to help Jazz with her stresses. She had the right idea, just the wrong tool to help her.  She needs a real therapist.

Th Victoria thing is really staged. When they were alone on the beach there were 6 cameramen and crew. If Jazz truly has romantic feelings or has a crush on somone, she isnt going to tell the show. She would really be embarrassed. They come up with a storyline and act it out. Maybe she has romantic feelings for Noelle? Would she tell any producers this? NO like any teenage girl she would tell a best friend or keep it to herself. They had to get Victoria and Jazz to agree to play this story out and both did. So ridiculous..

[ClareWalks]

Jazz really knows what buttons to push to get her way. When she was describing how she hates school and wants to virtual-school herself, she once again fell back on the "because I'm trans, everything is so much harder for me." While being transgender certainly doesn't help make a teen's life easier, I think the bigger problem is Jazz's total lack of coping skills and ability to manage uncomfortable situations. She cannot be uncomfortable. During the soccer workout with her brothers when she got tired, she threw a hissy fit. I have had clients like that. Trying to get them to realize that discomfort is a normal part of the "getting in shape" process is futile, because they don't WANT to be uncomfortable, and that's how they gained the weight in the first place. Food is comfort and they don't want to give it up. Jazz even stated this outright. Although I don't know how helpful hypnotherapy will ultimately be for Jazz, I appreciate that the hypnotherapist is telling Jazz she needs new coping skills besides just stuffing food into herself until she feels happy again. Jazz wants what she wants when she wants it, which is of course typical teenage behavior, but I think Jeanette is parenting from guilt and letting her do whatever she wants because of the whole "everything is hard for me as a trans teen" fallback.

[Dobian]

The car wash confrontation felt staged, but who knows.  The brothers should just lay off on the weight loss thing, she's either going to do it on her own or not going to do it.  The parents need to stop giving into her demands and put their foot down about school.  Finishing high school online is not the way to grow and move forward.  And what about college?

[gingerella]

@calpurnia99, I hear you on feeling sorry for Jeanette, but she is the decision maker in that family and if she wanted to say no to Jazz homeschooling herself she could do so. She is crying because she already knows she's going to give in to Jazz's demands. Instead of doing that, she could easily say, "Jazz, you're staying in school because you dont have the discipline to home school yourself. You need to do two things to  be able to home school yourself: First, you need way to prove to us that you have the self control, the motivation and maturity to lose the 30 pounds you need to lose, for a surgery that you say is the most important thing to you. And second, you need to go to weekly sessions with your original therapist to help you to work on the underlying eating issues you have. If you can do the therapy and lose the weight, THEN we will agree for you to home school yourself. It's that simple. And until that time you will be going to school." That is how parenting works, IMO.

I also agree with you about her brothers coming on too strong and pointing out how out of shape she is. But they are also boys who dont seem to have much finesse, with the exception of being very understanding and accepting of their trans sister. Other than that, they act like cavemen who've not been taught the basic social niceties. That's on their parents. Could they have been kinder to Jazz playing soccer? Of course. But imagine what their lives are like with Jazz as their sibling. It must be a never-ending time suck that is All About Jazz All The Time. I'd not have much patience left in me either if I was her sibling and had been dealing with her All About Me attitude for 15+year already.

[Granny58]

13 hours ago, Pollo Loco said:

I also found it interesting that Noelle said she'd have short hair if she could still look female(implying that she wouldn't), yet her voice is very much masculine sounding which, short hair or long, the voice would be a pretty big giveaway.  I'm aware that not every transgender person gets bottom surgery but I would think they'd want to come across as female (ie altering their vocal tone)as they could which is why the decidedly male tone tends to throw me a little aka Kaitlyn Jenner. I'm hoping this doesn't come off as insulting, just genuinely curious. 

I like Noelle, but when she had her hair pulled back I did think she looked quite masculine.  

[Impatient]

Ginergella, I think you might be off-base about this.  I do not think you can link home-schooling to therapy and weight loss.  She needs to go to school, go to therapy and lose 30 pounds.  Period.  IF they say "You get to do home-schooling after demonstrate maturity in these two other areas, they are still conceding.  And then, if she continues to go to school but doesn't lost the weight or refuses therapy, they are stuck, because hey, she is being punished for her immaturity already.  In fact these are separate areas of her life.  Her parents have invested sweat equity and thousands and thousands of dollars in her transition.  If she is going to bail on it now (and it is certainly her right to do that if she has changed her mind), she cannot have it be made known to her parents via this passive aggressive behavior. 

Therapy first and foremost.  Jazz is avoiding some really serious discussions and they are not going to go away.  Then diet.  And if there is any school left at that point, they can discuss it if she can make a concrete argument for why she wants to stop attending classes with her peers.  And comes up with a concrete plan to advance her education.  But this?  No.  No dice.

[gingerella]

3 hours ago, Impatient said:

Ginergella, I think you might be off-base about this.  I do not think you can link home-schooling to therapy and weight loss.  She needs to go to school, go to therapy and lose 30 pounds.  Period.  IF they say "You get to do home-schooling after demonstrate maturity in these two other areas, they are still conceding.  And then, if she continues to go to school but doesn't lost the weight or refuses therapy, they are stuck, because hey, she is being punished for her immaturity already.  In fact these are separate areas of her life.  Her parents have invested sweat equity and thousands and thousands of dollars in her transition.  If she is going to bail on it now (and it is certainly her right to do that if she has changed her mind), she cannot have it be made known to her parents via this passive aggressive behavior. 

Therapy first and foremost.  Jazz is avoiding some really serious discussions and they are not going to go away.  Then diet.  And if there is any school left at that point, they can discuss it if she can make a concrete argument for why she wants to stop attending classes with her peers.  And comes up with a concrete plan to advance her education.  But this?  No.  No dice.

I dont think I am off base because I dont see these things as separate areas of her life. I see a direct relationship between being mature enough to follow through in terms of self control, time management, etc. relating to both her inability to lose weight AND her likely inability to home school herself. She cant home school, it would be exactly like Jeanette says it would be, because Jazz lacks any self control or motivation to follow through on anything other than binge eating and engaging in endless medical consultations. If she showed she could lose the weight AND attend counseling to address the underlying issues that manifest themselves as binging, then she would indeed show she has matured and shown she has the ability to self control her behaviors and indeed follow through with things she claims are important to her.

Obviously that said, she should be in therapy regardless of anything else. That seems clear and it's odd they've not followed up in showing us that since the therapist clearly said she wanted to see Jazz to work out her coping issues with food, which implies regular sessions.  As always, YMMV.

Edited February 7, 2018 by gingerella

[kicotan]

34 minutes ago, Impatient said:

Why they are trying to force this at this point in her narrative is not clear to me.  She doesn't even have any desire for anything sexual at all.  Encouraging exploration in this way is just silly.

I could be wrong, but...The consultation they had with Dr. Bowers included more than just a weight loss goal.  Dr. Bowers also spoke about sexuality and achieving(or at least attempting to achieve) some sort of sexual stimulation BEFORE the surgery.

[bichonblitz]

i was actually yelling at the TV, I'm so frustrated! Noooooo, Jeanette and Greg, do not take her out of school to do virtual school! Everything they said was true about Jazz being holed up in her room, procrastinating, isolating herself, Jeanette crying about having to give up more of her time to make sureJazz studies , then they go and decide to agree do it! What is wrong with these people? Jazz has got to learn she can't always get what she wants. Why can' they ever say no to her? They are doing a huge disservice to her by constantly giving in to her. 

[Dobian]

52 minutes ago, Impatient said:

Maybe it's my family, but quite frankly, what Jazz's grandfather said to her is NOTHING.  Jazz Rolls?  My father would have found that hilarious and would have repeated it to anyone who would listen.  My dad was not exactly Mr. Sensitive.  And if I had complained about it or acted pouty, he would have said, "Hey, we love you.  You can't take a little good-natured ribbing from people who love you?  How are you ever going to get by in the world filled with people who do NOT care about whether or not they are hurting your feelings?"  My parents were strong believers in the occasional reality check.

 

We live in a culture that puts kids in bubble wrap and it shows.  All the coddling, minimizing competition because it's too "stressful", preoccupation with self-esteem.  My daughter had a class where the teacher allowed them to do their presentation to the teacher in private if requested because speaking to the class might cause anxiety.  Great way to prepare them for when they will be required to give a presentation in their job one day.  This generation is poorly equipped to deal with the harsh realities of the real world.

[janedi]

1 hour ago, kicotan said:

I could be wrong, but...The consultation they had with Dr. Bowers included more than just a weight loss goal.  Dr. Bowers also spoke about sexuality and achieving(or at least attempting to achieve) some sort of sexual stimulation BEFORE the surgery.

Yeah seems like Dr bowers feels its unethical to operate on Jazz if she won't be able to feel any sexual pleasure after. She seems to put a lot of consideration to that when she does her surgeries. According to my tv guide, in the episode after the next Dr bowers will give jazz some kind of ultimatum. I wonder if she will require her to use the testosterone cream in hopes It will give jazz some kind of sex drive.

[MegD]

1 hour ago, calpurnia99 said:

The brothers should have said we will play soccer this week for 30 minutes at a time, next week 45 minutes and the week after that 60 minutes.  They should have laid out a consistent plan for getting Jazz daily exercise. This would have made sense instead of saying "well you need to start!" "You need to do it" "you are lazy" ..this feels like an attack. Better to lay out a program that can be stuck to. 

Why should the brothers have to do anything? It's Jazz's responsibility to make sure she's healthy. In all likelihood, the boys were home for about a week and then after finals would have been home for a couple of weeks. They're off in college having their own lives. This constant catering to Jazz and having everyone be fixated on handling Jazz's issues while Jazz gets to pretend that nothing is her fault is just enabling her. She has no desire to follow any sort of program laid out for her.

Also, boys are rough and tumble, even long after they graduate high school. As the only girl with two brothers, I can vouch for that one. I've been sat on, wrestled with, forced into competitions, etc. when they want. It's worse when they get together with their friends. They are in their early to mid 30s these days and even croquet is a full contact sport. Anyone asking for them to lay off is "lazy". Some of it is just how boys behave. If asked, they probably would say that they were just trying to help her.

[ClareWalks]

2 hours ago, calpurnia99 said:

The brothers are right about the fitness but the way they went about it was wrong for Jazz. Telling her "you need to do this, you are lazy" is not going to work.  Pushing her past her limits the first day is not going to work. Jazz saying "I don't need exercise my problem is I love food so much" is also wrong. Does she not know that if she exercises she can eat more? Do they not know it takes a plan and consistency, over many months to lose weight and gain fitness?  The brothers should have said we will play soccer this week for 30 minutes at a time, next week 45 minutes and the week after that 60 minutes.  They should have laid out a consistent plan for getting Jazz daily exercise. This would have made sense instead of saying "well you need to start!" "You need to do it" "you are lazy" ..this feels like an attack. Better to lay out a program that can be stuck to. 

I think it's a lot to ask that they know how to prescribe an exercise regimen to their sister. Griffen and Sander are not personal trainers, they are just college kids who like to work out themselves. Jazz told them "you need to help me lose weight" and they have been very encouraging and supportive toward that end. If Jazz needs a formal progressive program, her parents should fork out the cash for a professional trainer.

[janedi]

This episode just makes me continue to think Jazz is purposely sabotaging the surgery,

She has to know leaving school will be a red flag to any therapist who considers writing her a letter.

And there's no way she actually thought Dr Volker was going to write her a letter after she delivered that depressing spiel during her therapy session. And yet she played along with mom expecting the letter to be given that same day. Yeah right.

I think Jazz knows exactly what she's doing.

This kid is smarter than we think

Edited February 7, 2018 by janedi

[RemoteControlFreak]

15 hours ago, Pollo Loco said:

I also found it interesting that Noelle said she'd have short hair if she could still look female(implying that she wouldn't), yet her voice is very much masculine sounding which, short hair or long, the voice would be a pretty big giveaway.  I'm aware that not every transgender person gets bottom surgery but I would think they'd want to come across as female (ie altering their vocal tone)as they could which is why the decidedly male tone tends to throw me a little aka Kaitlyn Jenner. I'm hoping this doesn't come off as insulting, just genuinely curious. 

Yes, her voice is a giveaway, but at least with long hair she can look a little more stereotypically female. I think that's what she was saying.  Also, you seem to be implying that getting bottom surgery raises the voice. My understanding (thanks Google) is that this is not the case and raising the voice requires voice therapy to learn how to speak in a higher register and/or vocal chord surgery of some sort.

[calpurnia99]

35 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I think it's a lot to ask that they know how to prescribe an exercise regimen to their sister. Griffen and Sander are not personal trainers, they are just college kids who like to work out themselves. Jazz told them "you need to help me lose weight" and they have been very encouraging and supportive toward that end. If Jazz needs a formal progressive program, her parents should fork out the cash for a professional trainer.

Yes,  I know you are right, it was not the brothers job to come up with a training plan. But as much as Jazz is a brat, their approach was not right- even though she asked for their help.  As a viewer that whole scene reiterated the fact that NONE of them know what the fuck they are doing, not Jazz nor any of her family members-, which is why they need a professional....and not a hynotherapist! The family soccer day was nice, but one day of exercise is a drop in the bucket.  I don't understand why the only help they are looking for is a hypnotherapist when there are so many diet plans/approaches//professionals out there and fitness activities. Obviously Jazz has no clue. She thinks the key to losing weight is Willpower.  As young as she is, I don't blame her for not knowing the first thing about losing weight. To her it means denial, period.  She really needs guidance with this, and not her brothers yelling at her that she is lazy. 

[ClareWalks]

13 minutes ago, calpurnia99 said:

Yes,  I know you are right, it was not the brothers job to come up with a training plan. But as much as Jazz is a brat, their approach was not right- even though she asked for their help.  As a viewer that whole scene reiterated the fact that NONE of them know what the fuck they are doing, not Jazz nor any of her family members-, which is why they need a professional....and not a hynotherapist! The family soccer day was nice, but one day of exercise is a drop in the bucket.  I don't understand why the only help they are looking for is a hypnotherapist when there are so many diet plans/approaches//professionals out there and fitness activities. Obviously Jazz has no clue. She thinks the key to losing weight is Willpower.  As young as she is, I don't blame her for not knowing the first thing about losing weight. To her it means denial, period.  She really needs guidance with this, and not her brothers yelling at her that she is lazy. 

I may have missed something but I didn't hear them yell at her that she was lazy at all. She was complaining that she was running so much, and they said "we've only been playing 10 minutes," and she said she had been running around more than them, and they said "you're the only one stopping" or something to that effect. It seemed like they were trying to communicate to her that it is supposed to be difficult and a sustained effort and they are trying to do it with her so she is motivated. 

The weird thing to me is wasn't she still on a soccer team just a couple seasons ago? When did she quit and why? 

[KellySunshine]

I don't think Jazz is 'fat'. She has very large breasts and would look significantly smaller if she had a breast reduction.   I think she would have an average body if she was smaller on top. 

The average size in the US is about a 14 -16, correct? It's not like she's a size 24 (I say this as a plus sized lady myself, so maybe my idea of someone being "huge" (as a poster described Jazz above) may be different than another person's idea of "huge".  

One has to consider the affects of the hormones that Jazz is taking, and even if she ate healthy and worked out frequently, she may have issues with her weight simply because of the hormones.

[ClareWalks]

2 minutes ago, KellySunshine said:

The average size in the US is about a 14 -16, correct? It's not like she's a size 24 (I say this as a plus sized lady myself, so maybe my idea of someone being "huge" (as a poster described Jazz above) may be different than another person's idea of "huge".  

Average size in the US is still overweight and still has associated health risks (especially in surgeries). Jazz has gained a lot of weight recently due to binge eating disorder which is very unhealthy.

[RemoteControlFreak]

1 minute ago, KellySunshine said:

The average size in the US is about a 14 -16, correct? It's not like she's a size 24 (I say this as a plus sized lady myself, so maybe my idea of someone being "huge" (as a poster described Jazz above) may be different than another person's idea of "huge".  

If it's true that the average size in the US is 14-16 than that means the average woman in the US is fat. There's no way around that. Just because everyone else is fat doesn't mean she's not.

Also, I doubt the average 16-year-old girl in the US is a size 14-16.