S06.E04: Liz's Story

[TVWatcher12]

My goodness! That poor aunt! How on earth could she roll her over? Don’t these people have ANY shame? 

[MrsClaus]

I keep revisiting Liz's story trying to figure out what unsettles me about her and I think I finally figured it out.

She is really just existing, not living.  Others on the show watch tv, play online games, have an online presence, cook (even if they do it in bed......ick!), one even crocheted I believe.  Liz is just there.  Other than coming to care for her, did anyone just visit her?  Did she have any interaction with others except her mom, the aunt, or the cousin who came to help?

The apartment just looked so sterile.  Unless I missed it, I didn't see any pictures on the walls, they just seemed blank.  Unfortunately, Liz seemed blank as well.

[Dianaofthehunt]

This episode was the jackpot for me. I tune in to see enormous mounds of flesh removed and on the scale. Fascinating! Then Doc says that a butt-gallon of fluid came out with it, so that's another two pounds to add to the flesh mound weight.
Not all "My 600" episodes include removed flesh mounds, to my weeping woe. 

[Desert Rat]

7 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

This episode was the jackpot for me. I tune in to see enormous mounds of flesh removed and on the scale. Fascinating! Then Doc says that a butt-gallon of fluid came out with it, so that's another two pounds to add to the flesh mound weight.
Not all "My 600" episodes include removed flesh mounds, to my weeping woe. 

I'm also fascinated by the large mounds of flesh removal. Sometimes the mounds weigh 50 pounds or more. I'm not a skinny girl, but for me 50 pounds would be like cutting off one entire leg, not a slab around my belly. 

I'm also amazed by the large quantities of food these 600 pounders can pack away in one meal. My stomach cramps just looking at the large plates of food.  They never gorge on good tasting food, just highly processed, starchy, greasy junk. 

[Mothra]

45 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

I'm also fascinated by the large mounds of flesh removal. Sometimes the mounds weigh 50 pounds or more. I'm not a skinny girl, but for me 50 pounds would be like cutting off one entire leg, not a slab around my belly. 

 

I think this episode was the first time I heard Dr. Now explain lymphedema in obese patients.  I was warned about lymphedema as a possibility when I had breast cancer surgery, that I shouldn't have BP measured or blood drawn from the arm on that side, and my mother-in-law (who also had CA surgery) developed a terrible swelling in her arm after a rose thorn got embedded, and the doctor told her that was lymphedema.  I didn't understand why so many of these patients had lymphedema, but Dr. Now said that after your body has stored as much fat as it can, it produces these pouches to store the excess fat.  But lymph is a body fluid, and edema is swelling caused by excess liquid retention, so how is fat storage lymphedema?

[AZChristian]

We have become accustomed to seeing people on this show who live in low-income housing, much of which has a lot of "stuff" around.  The places look "lived-in."

Liz's home didn't have that "lived-in" look, and the outside looked like it was in the nicest neighborhood we've seen on this series.  I'm wondering if it was a temporary rental for filming purposes.

[Desert Rat]

1 hour ago, Mothra said:

I think this episode was the first time I heard Dr. Now explain lymphedema in obese patients.  I was warned about lymphedema as a possibility when I had breast cancer surgery, that I shouldn't have BP measured or blood drawn from the arm on that side, and my mother-in-law (who also had CA surgery) developed a terrible swelling in her arm after a rose thorn got embedded, and the doctor told her that was lymphedema.  I didn't understand why so many of these patients had lymphedema, but Dr. Now said that after your body has stored as much fat as it can, it produces these pouches to store the excess fat.  But lymph is a body fluid, and edema is swelling caused by excess liquid retention, so how is fat storage lymphedema?

I wondered the same thing about the fat storage.  Maybe some of the lumps are lymphedema and others are stores of fat.  The skin removal is also remarkable.  30 to 40 pounds of extra skin, that we sometimes see, is a heck  of a lot of skin. 

[CoachWristletJen]

How much do you think it costs to keep her housed in the hospital for two months? I think Liz's case is really sad, and it's especially sad to see how she's given up on life. But, the bottom line is that she seems to be wasting all of this help. And, we live in a country where hardworking people with jobs who actually do want to live, well, they don't live as long because they don't have access to regular checkups, proper medication, and simple, life-prolonging treatments. Does that sound really terrible for me to say? I have a good friend who has near constant, crippling pain in her hand because of her trigger-point finger. A simple surgery would completely remedy this problem, but she doesn't have health insurance with her job. So, she's trying to save up enough money to afford the surgery on her own. The whole procedure probably costs less than two days of housing and feeding Liz in that hospital. Meanwhile, Liz has probably not paid one dime towards her own care, and she shows her gratitude by eating herself back up 50 pounds. How much food do you have to eat to gain 50 pounds in a little over a month?

Do I sound like a terrible person? Am I the only one who wonders these things while watching this show? I don't want to see Liz die, but Liz herself seems to have lost her will to live. In an ideal world, we could throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at her to try to save her, which is what we are doing, but we don't live in an ideal world.

[aliya]

20 hours ago, MrsClaus said:

I keep revisiting Liz's story trying to figure out what unsettles me about her and I think I finally figured it out.

She is really just existing, not living.  Others on the show watch tv, play online games, have an online presence, cook (even if they do it in bed......ick!), one even crocheted I believe.  Liz is just there.  Other than coming to care for her, did anyone just visit her?  Did she have any interaction with others except her mom, the aunt, or the cousin who came to help?

The apartment just looked so sterile.  Unless I missed it, I didn't see any pictures on the walls, they just seemed blank.  Unfortunately, Liz seemed blank as well.

Yeah, Sean knitted. They also had church members come and help them move, so even in what looked like an isolated existence, they had a church network to lean on. Poor Liz wound up with only her sick mother to help.  I also agree about the sterile-looking apartment. The apartment, Liz's demeanor - both seemed devoid of life.

[auntjess]

3 hours ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

This episode was the jackpot for me. I tune in to see enormous mounds of flesh removed and on the scale. Fascinating

Wasn't there a 58 lb one once?  Can't remember whose.

[Desert Rat]

3 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

How much do you think it costs to keep her housed in the hospital for two months? I think Liz's case is really sad, and it's especially sad to see how she's given up on life. But, the bottom line is that she seems to be wasting all of this help. And, we live in a country where hardworking people with jobs who actually do want to live, well, they don't live as long because they don't have access to regular checkups, proper medication, and simple, life-prolonging treatments. Does that sound really terrible for me to say? I have a good friend who has near constant, crippling pain in her hand because of her trigger-point finger. A simple surgery would completely remedy this problem, but she doesn't have health insurance with her job. So, she's trying to save up enough money to afford the surgery on her own. The whole procedure probably costs less than two days of housing and feeding Liz in that hospital. Meanwhile, Liz has probably not paid one dime towards her own care, and she shows her gratitude by eating herself back up 50 pounds. How much food do you have to eat to gain 50 pounds in a little over a month?

Do I sound like a terrible person? Am I the only one who wonders these things while watching this show? I don't want to see Liz die, but Liz herself seems to have lost her will to live. In an ideal world, we could throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at her to try to save her, which is what we are doing, but we don't live in an ideal world.

I have the same questions. How much of our limited resources should we spend trying to save people from themselves?  Adults make choices. If they want to destroy themselves, do we have to do everything to save them regardless of cost?  Could the money be better spent?  How does she pay for all that food. SNAP benefits don't cover food for a 50 pound monthly weight gain. That is a boat load of food, literally. And a big boat at that. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Desert Rat

[CoachWristletJen]

30 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

I have the same questions. How much of our limited resources should we spend trying to save people from themselves?  Adults make choices. If they want to destroy themselves, do we have to do everything to save them regardless of cost?  Could the money be better spent?  How does she pay for all that food. SNAP benefits don't cover food for a 50 pound monthly weight gain. That is a boat load of food, literally. And a big boat at that. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one. The money spent on Liz could probably help sixty or even one hundred hardworking people get much-needed services.... when you consider the fact that she was probably kept in the hospital for the better part of three months.  That's a lot of medication, heart exams, MRI's, etc., for people with jobs who can't afford them, people who are paying taxes that help keep Liz in that bed. I also have to wonder, how on earth are they affording all of that food? Maybe they visit a dozen food banks every month? No doubt Liz's mom receives a check for taking care of her. Maybe the assistant bather gets one, too.

[cynicat]

6 hours ago, Mothra said:

I didn't understand why so many of these patients had lymphedema, but Dr. Now said that after your body has stored as much fat as it can, it produces these pouches to store the excess fat.  But lymph is a body fluid, and edema is swelling caused by excess liquid retention, so how is fat storage lymphedema?

It's not lymphedema, it's lipedema

[Calicocats]

I think keeping her in a psych hospital would be a better use of funds.  All of this is wasted until they get to the emotional root of the problem, whatever that may be.  The failure isn't 100% Liz's fault (or any of theirs, except ASSanti).  They need fucking serious psychological help.  They ate their way into a state of non-functioning and haven't been a part of society in decades, in some cases. Here we have people who can't even roll over, for Christ's sakes.  This is a psychological problem.  No normal person keeps eating until they are shitting on themselves and they can't even sit ont he edge of a bed, and then continues to eat.  Get them psychological help, ASAP, or you're just wasting everyone's resources.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Calicocats

[CoachWristletJen]

33 minutes ago, Calicocats said:

I think keeping her in a psych hospital would be a better use of funds.  All of this is wasted until they get to the emotional root of the problem, whatever that may be.  The failure isn't 100% Liz's fault (or any of theirs, except ASSanti).  They need fucking serious psychological help.  They ate their way into a state of non-functioning and haven't been a part of society in decades, in some cases. Here we have people who can't even roll over, for Christ's sakes.  This is a psychological problem.  No normal person keeps eating until they are shitting on themselves and they can't even sit ont he edge of a bed, and then continues to eat.  Get them psychological help, ASAP, or you're just wasting everyone's resources.

I think you're absolutely right, and that's why more than 95% of the 600 pounders fail in the long run. These people are deeply disturbed, allowing themselves to be sponge bathed and scraped off like gigantic infants even though they have a clear way out of their situation. Liz behaved like a small child most of the time. Her aunt said if she didn't bring those heaping plates of food, "things got bad" leading me to believe that Liz could throw some gigantic baby tantrums when she didn't get fed... and fed and fed. Something tells me she could switch from sweet to ornery in two seconds.

I've noticed that Dr. Now is referring them to the psychologists with increasing frequency. He seems to be honing his methods as time goes on. I think that the actual treatment plans he prescribes are largely experimental in that even he is trying to figure out what works best and produces the best results for them in the long run. Heck, even just in the short run.

[Desert Rat]

1 hour ago, Calicocats said:

I think keeping her in a psych hospital would be a better use of funds.  All of this is wasted until they get to the emotional root of the problem, whatever that may be.  The failure isn't 100% Liz's fault (or any of theirs, except ASSanti).  They need fucking serious psychological help.  They ate their way into a state of non-functioning and haven't been a part of society in decades, in some cases. Here we have people who can't even roll over, for Christ's sakes.  This is a psychological problem.  No normal person keeps eating until they are shitting on themselves and they can't even sit ont he edge of a bed, and then continues to eat.  Get them psychological help, ASAP, or you're just wasting everyone's resources.

I agree they need psychological help, but not in a psych hospital. Psych hospitals are not equipped to handle the physical and medical needs of patients. A patient must be fairly mobile and medically okay for a psych hospital, or they will send the patient to a medical hospital until they are medically stable. Psych hospitals offer no physical therapy, medical tests, IVs, etc. And psych hospitals are just as expensive as medical hospitals.  

[CoachWristletJen]

22 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

I agree they need psychological help, but not in a psych hospital. Psych hospitals are not equipped to handle the physical and medical needs of patients. A patient must be fairly mobile and medically okay for a psych hospital, or they will send the patient to a medical hospital until they are medically stable. Psych hospitals offer no physical therapy, medical tests, IVs, etc. And psych hospitals are just as expensive as medical hospitals.  

Maybe some kind of a living situation, like a nursing home, or even a halfway house of some type, where a person like Liz has a home healthcare person to come in and bathe her and monitor her blood pressure, but they keep her on a 1200 calorie diet? Even a halfway house with other people who have mental illnesses? Something like that where they can be kept from glutting themselves with food, and yet not be such a disproportionate burden on the taxpayers? Keeping them lying around in the hospitals day after day because they can't seem to "diet" seems a little outrageous when they are sending people home days earlier after major surgeries in order to save money on insurance. 

Even Liz seemed to have the wherewithal to do barely enough to get the services she wanted, she would do what the doctor wanted to get globs removed from her body or whatever, and then she'd load up on pizza. She'd do just enough to get others to do for her, whether it was shedding a few pounds or tying a shoe or whatever. 

[Mothra]

4 hours ago, cynicat said:

It's not lymphedema, it's lipedema

Yeah, maybe.  But all I can find about lipedema suggests that it affects only women.  I truly think they're talking about lymphedema.  One explanation I found was that fat deposits block the flow of lymph and cause backup, but that still doesn't comport with Dr. Now's explanation, which now I'm wondering if I misunderstood.  I googled Dr Nowzaradan + lymphedema and didn't find the answer, but all the articles used the term lymphedema.

[Calicocats]

The point is, if they're going to spend thousands to hospitalize them just to get them to stop eating, they should throw in some treatment of their brain that got them into the situation to begin with.  They have rehabs for anorexics, why not build a rehab for 600 lb people?  Tennie at Shades of Hope (which I believe is in Texas) specializes in overeaters).  These facilities exist.

http://shadesofhope.com/

[Caoimhe]

50 minutes ago, Calicocats said:

The point is, if they're going to spend thousands to hospitalize them just to get them to stop eating, they should throw in some treatment of their brain that got them into the situation to begin with.  They have rehabs for anorexics, why not build a rehab for 600 lb people?  Tennie at Shades of Hope (which I believe is in Texas) specializes in overeaters).  These facilities exist.

http://shadesofhope.com/

I was reading about a similar place recently, somewhere in New England I think, that treats eating disorders and they make a point of saying they also deal with binge eating and other disorders than anorexia and bulimia.  It is critical to learn ways to cope other than turning to food and that means therapy and support.  

[Calicocats]

$700/day is probably significantly less than they're paying to sit in a hospital all day, and she'd get programming specific to her problem all day long and controlled meals.  It lasts for 42 days.

[CoachWristletJen]

38 minutes ago, Calicocats said:

$700/day is probably significantly less than they're paying to sit in a hospital all day, and she'd get programming specific to her problem all day long and controlled meals.  It lasts for 42 days.

Sounds far more effective than medical treatment alone... as well as less expensive! They could follow up with support groups in the form of some kind of 12-step program. They could attend Overeaters Anonymous or even meet online with other people in the 600-range. 

[Calicocats]

They use the 12 Steps there, so they could definitely follow up with OA.  

This facility was featured on the OWN network show "Addicted to Food" if anyone can find it online...you're my new BFF!  They filmed about 7 people...most were overweight.  Such a good show!

[cynicat]

23 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I've noticed that Dr. Now is referring them to the psychologists with increasing frequency. He seems to be honing his methods as time goes on. I think that the actual treatment plans he prescribes are largely experimental in that even he is trying to figure out what works best and produces the best results for them in the long run. Heck, even just in the short run.

We still don't really know what happens off camera.  It's entirely possible that they get nutritional and psychological help that we don't see because it's doesn't make for good TV.  I think it's more likely that viewers are questioning the lack of psychological support and that's why we're starting to see it more. 

[seniorpatriot]

On 2/3/2018 at 9:53 PM, Pentwater said:

I'm wondering why Mama's eyes were beet red. Did she smoke a few bowls during the wait? Does anyone in that group have any manners? A sign of respect is to rise when somebody enters a room, and this bunch stayed planted when Dr N came in with the post-surgical (leg) news. OTOH, here I am, silly me, expecting day-to-day manners from people who are responsible for Liz weighing as much as she did. In some sick way, they, including Liz, enjoy the infamy that comes with having a 700-pound bed-bound pet. 

Yea, especially when they get to get on TV with no telling how many freebies are passed their way. 

[seniorpatriot]

On 2/7/2018 at 1:08 PM, CoachWristletJen said:

How much do you think it costs to keep her housed in the hospital for two months? I think Liz's case is really sad, and it's especially sad to see how she's given up on life. But, the bottom line is that she seems to be wasting all of this help. And, we live in a country where hardworking people with jobs who actually do want to live, well, they don't live as long because they don't have access to regular checkups, proper medication, and simple, life-prolonging treatments. Does that sound really terrible for me to say? I have a good friend who has near constant, crippling pain in her hand because of her trigger-point finger. A simple surgery would completely remedy this problem, but she doesn't have health insurance with her job. So, she's trying to save up enough money to afford the surgery on her own. The whole procedure probably costs less than two days of housing and feeding Liz in that hospital. Meanwhile, Liz has probably not paid one dime towards her own care, and she shows her gratitude by eating herself back up 50 pounds. How much food do you have to eat to gain 50 pounds in a little over a month?

Do I sound like a terrible person? Am I the only one who wonders these things while watching this show? I don't want to see Liz die, but Liz herself seems to have lost her will to live. In an ideal world, we could throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at her to try to save her, which is what we are doing, but we don't live in an ideal world.

100% agree with you on this! It is like tax payer dollars being spent on drug rehab. or companies with employees who get addicted, somebody else always has to foot the bill for THEIR bad choices. I watch this show every week, and I always wonder this, how the HELL are these people affording all that food?? A lot of which is fast food? expensive. 

[aliya]

On 2/7/2018 at 5:26 PM, CoachWristletJen said:

I've noticed that Dr. Now is referring them to the psychologists with increasing frequency. 

Something just dawned on me.  When I was considering WLS, there was a mandatory meeting with a therapist. I changed my mind before going, but my understanding from the clinic and from people here and a WLS FB page I was on, is that the therapist is only trying to determine if you have an eating disorder or would otherwise be unable to follow the post surgery meal plan. S/he is not trying to find out why you eat, if your mother beat you as a child, etc.

So, maybe what we are seeing is something different from what regular overweight patients get and is an effort to get at the deeper psychological issues that not only cause someone to overeat, but even to sabotage themselves after the surgery.

[Tabbygirl521]

I just remembered, too, that Melissa (the woman who was a long-term success) worked for Dr Now as a counselor. I wonder if he still offers or requires counseling with someone like Melissa who has “been there.” The patients typically seem to be in massive denial and looking for a magic wand, but maybe maybe maybe they would grab a clue about what to expect after surgery if they heard it from someone who had been through the experience. 

[CoachWristletJen]

21 hours ago, aliya said:

Something just dawned on me.  When I was considering WLS, there was a mandatory meeting with a therapist. I changed my mind before going, but my understanding from the clinic and from people here and a WLS FB page I was on, is that the therapist is only trying to determine if you have an eating disorder or would otherwise be unable to follow the post surgery meal plan. S/he is not trying to find out why you eat, if your mother beat you as a child, etc.

So, maybe what we are seeing is something different from what regular overweight patients get and is an effort to get at the deeper psychological issues that not only cause someone to overeat, but even to sabotage themselves after the surgery.

I think you're absolutely right. The mentality of a 300-pound person compared to that of a 600-pound person is like night and day! The people on the show are in an entirely different league as far as mental illness is concerned. Mentally, they are very sick! And the fact that they compulsively eat even though they are hurting their families and becoming a total burden to everyone around them, that is in ways identical to the abusive alcoholics who drink themselves sick and laugh in the faces of the hurt people who try to help them. There are as many varieties of alcoholics as there are people, but even the seemingly kind and conscientious ones are very sick (although the conscientious ones have a better chance at long-term recovery).

They sabotage themselves not because they don't want to get better but because they give into their cravings for food. They have no better restraint than gigantic toddlers. They need, perhaps, the daily reinforcement of some sort of a 12-step program or they will relapse because for whatever reason they have this ravenous hunger inside of them and they would blow up to 1000 pounds if allowed. 

Regular overweight patients need help with a problem, but they are functioning members of society with jobs. They are connected to their families. They don't hurt other people. They are not pathologically selfish.

An alcoholic can go to treatment for a month, and follow up with meetings still functioning in society, going places, doing things, etc. Not most of these people. They need months of repair before they can even leave their homes without pain. That's gotta affect their brains, too!

You are completely right when you say that they have far deeper psychological issues. It is one of the things that makes the show so disturbing!

[CoachWristletJen]

On 2/9/2018 at 11:18 AM, seniorpatriot said:

100% agree with you on this! It is like tax payer dollars being spent on drug rehab. or companies with employees who get addicted, somebody else always has to foot the bill for THEIR bad choices. I watch this show every week, and I always wonder this, how the HELL are these people affording all that food?? A lot of which is fast food? expensive. 

That's something that has me wondering, too. The married couple with the mean man who started kicking his wife when he finally got some energy, they went scooting to the store every day, EVERY DAY! 

Many addicts sell their bodies to support their habits but I don't think that's what's going on here. It's a mystery.

[AZChristian]

On 2/9/2018 at 9:18 AM, seniorpatriot said:

100% agree with you on this! It is like tax payer dollars being spent on drug rehab. or companies with employees who get addicted, somebody else always has to foot the bill for THEIR bad choices. I watch this show every week, and I always wonder this, how the HELL are these people affording all that food?? A lot of which is fast food? expensive. 

In some states, low-income food stamps (SNAP) programs can be used at fast food restaurants.  And most places now give welfare recipients a debit card with their monthly allotment on it, which they can spend pretty much anywhere.  It wasn't that long ago that they finally made it a rule that people could not use their welfare debit cards to pay for cruises.

[frenchtoast]

As has been noted in various episode topics and in the main mod announcement, unless discussed on the show, avoid discussing how money is being snatched from the public's wallet for the participants unless it’s specifically revealed on the show. Anything else is pure speculation not to mention also a slippery slope toward talking politics. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

how the HELL are these people affording all that food??

Worth noting - most of the food these people are eating is cheap. On sale, I can get pasta for a dollar a box or less. Mac and cheese is $.69 per box. Soda is cheap. Fast food can be cheap if you're willing to eat off the dollar menu or ordering BOGO delivery pizza. Sure it adds up, but it's not like these patients are eating filet mignon and lobster tail. They're eating fast food, cheap processed foods and junk food.

[OoogleEyes]

On 2/1/2018 at 11:57 AM, Maricopa said:

Maybe it's two different pairs? Regular and reading?

Reading? I don't think I've seen *any* of these people read a book.

[QuinnInND]

16 hours ago, OoogleEyes said:

Reading? I don't think I've seen *any* of these people read a book.

There was the one a few weeks ago that at the end went to a bookstore. 

As for the rest, they probably read Facebook. Lol 

[OoogleEyes]

On 2/12/2018 at 8:28 PM, Elizzikra said:

 Sure it adds up, but it's not like these patients are eating filet mignon and lobster tail.

At least that would be high protein/low carb!

[CrazyInAlabama]

So I'm watching the rerun, and Liz is missing the 25 lb lipidema or lymphadema that Dr Now took off of her leg?     I don't know how the doctors, nurses, and everyone else can work with these delusional, self destructive patients.   

 I couldn't believe the lack of reaction that Liz has to everything, and her family's total lack of reaction to Dr. Now telling them that Liz did very well in her removal surgery.    I guess the entire bunch of them are on tranquilizers or something. 

That was such a sad episode.    She lost a whole lot of weight, and still didn't look any smaller, and wasn't mobile.     Then gains 50 lbs back in a month, and I really don't want to know how she's done since, because I'm betting she's a lot heavier, and still laying in that bed.     I have zero hope for her, and for her family.     

Edited September 21, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Pounders, What do we do? We avoid discussing how money is being snatched from the public's wallet for the participants unless it’s specifically revealed on the show. Anything else is pure speculation not to mention also a slippery slope toward talking politics. 

[suev3333]

On 2/7/2018 at 10:29 AM, Desert Rat said:

meal. My stomach cramps just looking at the large plates of food.  They never gorge on good tasting food, just highly processed, starchy, greasy junk. ".                                                                                                          Hmmmm...I was always under the impression that the 'processed, starchy, greasy junk' food WAS the good tasting food....,🤔 IMO, that is