S13.E10: Wayward Sisters

[DittyDotDot]

13 minutes ago, SueB said:

I think Kaia has always been split in two.  Sort of like Capt Kirk and the transporter accident. Or Charlie as well.  Kaia we met was the meek one, wanting to run and hide but with sufficient moral fiber to do the right thing.  Darth Kaia was the Bad Place Badass version.  The fact that she’s split in two is why she is always drawn to that place.  There was a reason we saw ‘dead Kaia’s body’ in the Bad Place.   I hope they get those two jokey parts together because I liked ‘meek’ Kaia.  And yes, I know she was not completely meek but she did take a ton of drugs to try and keep awake for fear of going back in her mind.  And she’s definitely more ‘flight’ than ‘fight’.  

That was mostly my thinking, but I don't think it's as simple as "good" and "bad" Kaia. I'm quite certain why she kept returning to that place was because she left something behind as a kid, though.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Of course it's possible all the women in that world look like Kaia. But that seems unlikely.

Ooh, that would actually be cool.   Kaia's mother escaped from the bad place and gave birth to Kaia, who she then gave up for adoption.  That's why she's so tied to the place.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I thought it was pretty well established that John also put personal thoughts in his journal - at least in the early days of his hunting. 

 

For me, it's not that she wrote personal things, it's this notion that we have to hear her thoughts. Honestly, her voice-overs made me simultaneously cringe and laugh (in an embarrassed by association kind of way). They need to stop that immediately.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

23 minutes ago, Katy M said:

It does kind of make you wonder what he wrote?  Sex details?  LOL.   But, he obviously tore out the case details, too, because they had no idea what it was.

I think it was common - based on I'm not sure what, but I seem to remember seeing stills of John's journal entries - that personal comments were mixed in with case details.  If that's true, then he wouldn't have been able to tear out the pages referring to Adam without also tearing out the ones about the case. 

17 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

That was mostly my thinking, but I don't think it's as simple as "good" and "bad" Kaia. I'm quite certain why she kept returning to that place was because she left something behind as a kid, though.

Now, that's an interesting idea!  Like it was a 'monster under her bed' or in her closet thing how she ended up in the Bad Place as a child.

Quote

For me, it's not that she wrote personal things, it's this notion that we have to hear her thoughts. Honestly, her voice-overs made me simultaneously cringe and laugh (in an embarrassed by association kind of way). They need to stop that immediately.

Agree on stopping the voice overs.  I thought they were annoying.  Besides, Claire's thoughts really aren't all that interesting anyhow.  :)

[bozodegama]

Does anyone know if Wayward is going to be dealing with those blue bleeding Orc like monsters and other new monsters from The Bad Place solely or are they going to also hunt the normal supernatural monsters like Angels, Demons, vamps, werewolves etc also.?  It seems like the "Big Bad" of that show is that giant Orc like monster and they will have to go kill it (or it could be evil Kaia who can apparently kick both Sam and Deans ass, lol?).  You can't really have a conversation with that creature.  Like Metatron says, , every Hero is defined by his or her villain and if they don't have cool villains who provide some comic relief, it will be a problem for me.  I mean, if it's just a girl power badass monster killing tv show without all the other things that make supernatural so great, I can't see it lasting long.  But there are thousands of young girls on twitter who think its the greatest thing ever.  I don't watch any of the other cw shows, strictly Supernatural for me since the pilot in 2005  Also, the boys and Misha were heavily promoting the show so i believe next year might be the end.  .

[Wayward Son]

I'm going to have an unpopular opinion (for on here at least) and state that I absolutely loved it and will definitely be a viewer if it is picked up to series. From browsing online the overall responses seem to be what I expected. Those who watch with an overall Team Free Will focus and prefer the presence of additional characters in a large capacity loved it while the bi-bros, Dean centric fans and Sam centric fans who primarily watch for one, or both, brothers disliked it. Of course I'm sure there are exceptions to those rules ;)

 

As many anticipated the episode was a Claire centric one and, as a result, most of my initial thoughts relate to her and her relationship with the other. This in spite of the fact I'd consider myself more of a fan of Jody and Donna. Here's hoping they'll get character centric episodes too if the spin off is picked up.

 

I found the disconnect between Claire's words to Jody and her actions throughout the episode rather interesting. During their argument Claire embraces Jody's view of her as utterly reckless and jumping into things without making a plan. While this may have been true in the past (wandering the woods with head phones on during a werewolf hunt, anyone?) it wasn't how we saw her behave during her solo hunt at the start of the episode. During this hunt we saw Claire come up with a plan, which would allow her to get close to the werewolves while luring them into a false sense of security before making her shot. Likewise, later in the episode she leaves a webcam connected to her phone behind in Jody's in order to a) confirm the validity of Patience's claims and b) to get an idea of the number of creatures we are dealing with. If we were mean to see her going into the Bad Place as a sign of headstrong then I feel Beren's did a poor job of it as Jody was earlier prepared to go into the rift on her own. It was only the sudden arrival of the creatures from The Bad Place that stopped her carrying out her plan. Is the disconnect a writing flaw on the part of Berens? Did he just put those smart Claire moments in for the sake of "yay girl power"? Or is it a deliberate foreshadowing of relationship issues between Jody and Claire they intend to further explore if Wayward Sisters is picked up? 

 

Another scene I enjoyed was the contrast between Alex's willingness to explore the corpse and Patience's squeamishness about the whole thing. I thought both reactions were very true to their respective background experiences. I also have to commend Bobo Berens on the fact Patience's first shot was a wild misfire. I'm sure the temptation to make her a natural shot was there, as many feared he would, but he refrained from making Alex, Kaia and Patience anymore skilled than they should be.

 

Personally, I don't believe Kaia is dead for reasons I elaborate on later in the spoiler tag. I think it's going to be a case of she was still alive, barely, rather than actually dead. She was then possessed by one of the creatures from 'The Bad Place'. My reasons for this are twofold 1) I believe the creature examined earlier in the episode was their true form and 2) The use of dreamwalking magic seemed to be used which suggests the creature is channeling Kaia's abilities. If they had this ability on their own how come we never saw them before now? 

 

My only real complaint about the episode is the terrible CGI used for the gigantic monsters but I'm willing to ignore that LOL.

 

Below are some thoughts based on words of Briana Buckmaster at a con. It is pretty much all speculation, but I'm going to put it in spoiler tags just in case.

 

Spoiler

IIRC, at a recent con Briana Buckmaster, or was it Kim Rhodes, heavily hinted that there would be an LGBT romance on the show when asked about it. IMO this relationship is going to be Claire and Kaia. IMO there was a definite chemistry between the actresses and a mutual crush would help explain why they both connected so quickly. Considering this is an episode where they purposely showed us other Pilot parallels such as Jody using a tweaked version of Dean's "Dad's on a hunting trip" speech I don't think the imagery of Dean dragging Claire, just as he dragged Sam away from the burning Jessica, was coincidental. As I said above I believe Kaia is still alive in the creature somewhere and I think WS' big season one arc will be 'save Kaia' just as the brothers S1 goal was "find dad". 

 

25 minutes ago, Triskan said:

And man these forums are a piece of work. This was a great episode, imo, and everyone is just bitching about it... I really cant understand you guys sometimes...

If it helps I'm another one in the "It's a great episode" camp :D

 

17 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I can't believe they didn't try to bring her body back. That's awful characterization for everyone else to just leave her there. 

I'd say it is consistent characterisation for Sam at least. He was also happy to flee the apocalypse world without Castiel back in All Along the Watch Tower, Claire clearly didn't want to and basically had to be dragged away. I'd say the only one it is arguably OOC for is Dean considering his different reaction back in 12x23. However, I think that can be explained away by the fact Kaia is a virtual stranger and nowhere near as important to him as Castiel and with a more neutral mindset Dean decided getting the people alive out was more important than retrieving a corpse.

 

17 hours ago, Katy M said:

I liked that, too.  It doesn't taste like chicken.  That and Dean goes back for it before running off.  

That scene reminded me of Sam going back to collect the burger Dean made in Trial and Error. Different circumstances I know, but that's what came to mind.

 

17 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Alex is my favorite in this whole thing. She reminded me of Scully and her eagerness to cut into the monster LOL

Anything that is Dana Scully like should always be considered an excellent thing :D. Love me some Scully <3

 

15 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Oh right. I missed that part

But doesn't Jack need Kaia's power to open the rift? I thought that was the point of them doing it together.

I think the explanation was that Jack had the raw power to open portals, but lacked the ability to see between them in order to determine what world he is travelling to. Since Jack is still exploring his powers I wouldn't find it unbelievable if he later succeeded in mastering the ability to not only travel between worlds, but see between them too.

 

3 hours ago, General Days said:

When was it revealed to be just a diary rather than a hunter's journal? I interpreted it as sort of proto-journaling from a fledgling hunter. That a teenage girl included some personal thoughts in hers, where widower, single-parent, and former Marine John Winchester did not, doesn't change that for me.

Did I miss something? (I might have -- that's not meant to be a snide question). 

 

As others have mentioned John too used his journal for writing personal notes. It is explicitly referenced in Home when Sam reads from it John's account of meeting Missouri i.e. "I went to Missouri and I learned the truth". In addition to this, it is interfered to by less explicit references such as a mention of John ripping pages about the case involving Adam's mother from the journal and Henry having an idea of just how terrible the brothers childhood was based on reading it alone.

 

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Same with Mary reading the journal.

Except apparently Mary isn't very bright because she seemed shocked when Lady Toni talked about John in There's Something About Mary. 

[DittyDotDot]

16 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

Does anyone know if Wayward is going to be dealing with those blue bleeding Orc like monsters and other new monsters from The Bad Place solely or are they going to also hunt the normal supernatural monsters like Angels, Demons, vamps, werewolves etc also.?

I would guess their main mythology will surround these orc-like creatures, but they'll probably have to deal with other supernatural creatures too. I don't think it will be only one or the other.

[dalek]

This was not a great backdoor pilot, but then I haven't been a regular viewer of Supernatural for a while now, I eventually ran out of patience for the show.

Loved Jodie and Donna.  I especially liked Donna's truck with all the Hunter's equipment and her cheerfully asking if anyone wanted the flamethrower.

I think I would have liked this better if the show hadn't killed off the female characters I liked in earlier seasons, since a Wayward Sisters with Jodie, and Alex, Donna Jo and Ellen, and Charlie would have been my dream show.  And would have been much better in terms of the acting.

Enjoyed the "it tastes like lizard" moment.

[General Days]

14 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I'm going to have an unpopular opinion (for on here at least) and state that I absolutely loved it and will definitely be a viewer if it is picked up to series.

 

As others have mentioned John too used his journal for writing personal notes. It is explicitly referenced in Home when Sam reads from it John's account of meeting Missouri i.e. "I went to Missouri and I learned the truth". In addition to this, it is interfered to by less explicit references such as a mention of John ripping pages about the case involving Adam's mother from the journal and Henry having an idea of just how terrible the brothers childhood was based on reading it alone.

Well, your opinion isn't unpopular with me. I love Sam and Dean, but I love Jody, too, and would be happy to watch this spinoff. 

As to my journal point, I'm only answering, because as you mention, so many people have pointed out the same thing. Yes, I remember some of John's personal comments in his journal (Missouri was on my mind, in fact, when I read the comment to which I was responding).

I posted what I did, because I legitimately don't understand how Claire's journaling was just a teen girl writing in a diary (that's how it was characterized in the comment to which I was responding), rather than a hunter keeping a journal. 

Was there anything I missed, except that this hunter happens to be a young woman, and not played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan? 

 

20 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

Does anyone know if Wayward is going to be dealing with those blue bleeding Orc like monsters and other new monsters from The Bad Place solely or are they going to also hunt the normal supernatural monsters like Angels, Demons, vamps, werewolves etc also.? 

This is just how I interpreted the blue blood monster. I don't think they wanted to give Wayward Sisters the same monsters and demons, at least at the outset, until they know how and when they're going to wrap up the original series. By giving them -- at least for this pilot -- a different kind of critter, they didn't box in the original series or the potential new one (like if they want it to end with Sam and Dean accomplishing something world changing). And they didn't want the women's hunt to have to depend on the original show. By having the initial monsters come from another dimension, they can keep each show from screwing too much with continuity on the other.

Since Claire has been cured of werewolfism. Alex has a history with vampires, and Jody has a history with demons, I would imagine that eventually, we'll get back to some monsters like that. I wonder if angels would be out, though (and I kind of think they should be). 

[AwesomO4000]

7 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Some stupid stuff:

• Sam not eating the lizard.  I know the ‘Sam is a picky eater’ is a well-used trope, but I think it was ridiculous in this instance.  They’d been there two days.  This was a survival situation.  Sam would have known that and eaten the lizard instead of turning up his nose at it.  Shoot, if that’s the first thing they’ve had to eat in two days, he probably would have thought it tasted great!
• Hey!  Let’s all run to the exit from the place where unknown creatures are trying to kill us and STOP.  I guess they just wanted to take in the really cool CGI. 
• Oh, and then when they hear something coming, instead of going through the door that’s right there, they do the really smart thing of turning around to fight - fight something they know nothing about or how to kill.  Yeah!
• Leaving Kaia’s body.  Come on – Sam’s huge.  He could have carried her no problem.  He’s carried Charlie before.  So much for not leaving a man behind, huh? 

While I agree with most of the other points, I still think Sam not eating is very much in character. And I don't think it has so much to do with Sam being a "picky eater" as that seems to be one of Sam's reactions to stress or an intense situation. He doesn't eat. Almost like he thinks it will distract him from the task at hand. As I said on the first page of this thread, we've seen this before with Sam - "The Born Again Identity" comes to mind - and Sam - for whatever reason - seems to function fine without food. Now whether or not that is believable is another question, but character-wise it rings true for me.

As for Kaia's body, maybe it was the weapon that might've made it difficult to bring her body back?

1 hour ago, bozodegama said:

... You can't really have a conversation with that creature.  Like Metatron says, , every Hero is defined by his or her villain and if they don't have cool villains who provide some comic relief, it will be a problem for me.  I mean, if it's just a girl power badass monster killing tv show without all the other things that make supernatural so great, I can't see it lasting long.

I'm okay with the monsters not talking. I don't think the monsters - or any creatures from that universe - could believably speak a language that Jody or Claire could understand anyway, so we'd end up with annoying subtitles. I think the "bad guy" looking like Kaia will actually be the way that the writers will try to form a connection between Claire and Jody and the villain, and will be what comes to define the heroes. How will they react to having to potentially fight / kill / destroy a villain that either looks like or is inhabiting someone they feel responsible for saving (Kaia)? And will Kaia play a role in that - if it is indeed her body and her consciousness is there? Will she feel abandoned by Claire? If possessed, will she instead bond with / feel more cared for by the monster and turn against Claire?

I think there are a lot of potential avenues to explore in terms of a villain / hero dynamic.

For me though, it's more than just a compelling villain - although that is a good thing. There has to be a good give and take and back and forth. That's the problem for me now with "The Walking Dead." The villain Negan for the past season or two is just constantly defeating the heroes in the end. Every. Damn. Time. It has become more than tiresome, for me anyway.

Edited January 19, 2018 by AwesomO4000
more elaboration needed.

[catrox14]

56 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

'm going to have an unpopular opinion (for on here at least) and state that I absolutely loved it and will definitely be a viewer if it is picked up to series. From browsing online the overall responses seem to be what I expected. Those who watch with an overall Team Free Will focus and prefer the presence of additional characters in a large capacity loved it while the bi-bros, Dean centric fans and Sam centric fans who primarily watch for one, or both, brothers disliked it. Of course I'm sure there are exceptions to those rules ;)

Funny thing, I'm 100% TFW and favor Dean and I didn't much care for it because Claire is an unappealing character for me. I'm pissed they killed Kaia. It was not well acted IMO and overwrought.

2 hours ago, SueB said:

I think Kaia has always been split in two.  Sort of like Capt Kirk and the transporter accident. Or Charlie as well.  Kaia we met was the meek one, wanting to run and hide but with sufficient moral fiber to do the right thing.  Darth Kaia was the Bad Place Badass version.  The fact that she’s split in two is why she is always drawn to that place.  There was a reason we saw ‘dead Kaia’s body’ in the Bad Place.   I hope they get those two jokey parts together because I liked ‘meek’ Kaia.  And yes, I know she was not completely meek but she did take a ton of drugs to try and keep awake for fear of going back in her mind.  And she’s definitely more ‘flight’ than ‘fight’.  

I think I called this in one of the spoilers threads. That she would be like Dark Charlie and Light Charlie. I have to go back and look at my comments.

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Funny thing, I'm 100% TFW and favor Dean and I didn't much care for it because Claire is an unappealing character for me. I'm pissed they killed Kaia. It was not well acted IMO and overwrought.

Well I did say I’m sure there’s exception to the rule. Although, honestly, based on your posts here, your opinions often seem to align mainly with the Dean centric viewers on here and other places. And that’s not a dig or criticism. People enjoy what they enjoy lol 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Triskan said:

And man these forums are a piece of work. This was a great episode, imo, and everyone is just bitching about it... I really cant understand you guys sometimes...

I love that we have a place where we can all offer our various opinions. I like the diversity of opinion in this place :)

Just now, Wayward Son said:

Well I did say I’m sure there’s exception to the rule. Although, honestly, based on your posts here, your opinions often come across as more Dean centric than anything. And that’s not a dig or criticism. People enjoy what they enjoy lol 

LOL, just because I post more about Dean doesn't mean I'm not TFW in the end. But I mean if you gotta pigeon hole, feel free. I don't post much about Destiel so does that mean I'm not really a Destiel shipper?

[Wayward Son]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

LOL, just because I post more about Dean doesn't mean I'm not TFW in the end. But I mean if you gotta pigeon hole, feel free. I don't post much about Destiel so does that mean I'm not really a Destiel shipper?

I had actually edited the post to clarify what I meant, but you must have seen it first. 

[Jeddah]

2 hours ago, Triskan said:

And man these forums are a piece of work. This was a great episode, imo, and everyone is just bitching about it... I really cant understand you guys sometimes...

Same here! I liked it! Over 13 seasons I really can only think of a few episodes I’ve truly hated, so there are definitely times I can’t relate to these forums.

This episode was something different, but still stayed true to the “Family don’t end with blood” theme. It showed how Sam and Dean have not only saved the world many times over, but also how they’ve affected people on a personal level. There’s a whole group of badass hunters, and most of them are there because they’ve been  influenced/saved/taught by Sam and Dean. I think that’s awesome, and it made me like the episode a lot. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Jeddah

[MysteryGuest]

10 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I didn't have a problem with that since they didn't walk or go through a gift (as seen in previous episodes and Claire/Kaia) they were blasted through the Rift (along with Kaia being blasted to Suix Falls and Jack going who knows where).

It works for me that Sam/Dean ended up far away from the rift

Good observation!  That makes perfect sense to me.  

I think I would have enjoyed it more if they'd actually taken two episodes to introduce the spin off.  Part of what bothered me was that they eliminated a lot of potential drama by having Claire and Kaia find Sam and Dean so quickly.  They should have used episode one to introduce all of the characters to each other, get Claire back home and find Kaia.  They could start to establish their relationships, while coming up with a plan to rescue Sam and Dean.  And then episode two could have been the actual rescue of Sam and Dean, and the realization that there was something unique about this group of women.  

Kaia's almost eager willingness to go to the Bad Place with Claire seemed out of character for her, and I think she'd have taken more persuading.  That would also have added to the feelings of guilt and responsibility for her death.  They pretty much dedicated four episodes to the Wayward cast this season, so I think they should have taken the extra time to really build up the storyline.  And with 2 back-to-back episodes, they would have had the time to show more of Sam and Dean in the other world.

[catrox14]

58 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Kaia's almost eager willingness to go to the Bad Place with Claire seemed out of character for her, and I think she'd have taken more persuading. 

That struck me as well. I wonder if Kaia had crossed over on her own, and it was really a doppelganger trying to get back? It was kind of strange iMO

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

 

Kaia's almost eager willingness to go to the Bad Place with Claire seemed out of character for her, and I think she'd have taken more persuading.  

 

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That struck me as well. I wonder if Kaia had crossed over on her own, and it was really a doppelganger trying to get back? It was kind of strange iMO

I’m going with crush! I’m convinced the show will go the route of Kaia/Claire if picked up. It’ll be one of those stupid things people do to try and impress the person they’re crushing on. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

Kaia's almost eager willingness to go to the Bad Place with Claire seemed out of character for her, and I think she'd have taken more persuading.  That would also have added to the feelings of guilt and responsibility for her death.  They pretty much dedicated four episodes to the Wayward cast this season, so I think they should have taken the extra time to really build up the storyline.  And with 2 back-to-back episodes, they would have had the time to show more of Sam and Dean in the other world.

I re-watched the ending of 13.09 today and, it's interesting how well they set up 13.10.  When Jack is using Kaia's dream walker power to find Mary and open the right you see a multitude of worlds which then break down to 2, the "bad place" and Mary's Apocalypse world. When the wave hits its like Kaia's mind is breaking down and the 2 worlds are mixing, which is why Jack presumably goes to Mary and, the Boys end up in the bad place. The final dream clip before the wave is the giant skull and the hooded figure - Kaia's dupe).

I wonder if Evil Kaia isn't a duplicate/AU Kaia but, maybe a twin? Maybe Kaia could only dream walk the bad place because she was from the bad place?

That doesn't make it OK that Kaia died, I was really starting to like her. However, I'm actually curious as to how it plays out. 

[MysteryGuest]

20 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I’m going with crush! I’m convinced the show will go the route of Kaia/Claire if picked up. It’ll be one of those stupid things people do to try and impress the person they’re crushing on. 

Yes, I definitely got a smitten vibe from Kaia, but I'm not sure about Claire.  But I still think that based on just how frightened Kaia was of the Bad Place, she wouldn't have been quite that eager to jump right back in.

[SueB]

Rewatched and found a lot I liked better.  As a pilot, there's always an extra layer of "judgement" for me with my opinions.  Kind of like watching the Harry Potter movies.  I spend the first time watching the movie doing a book compare running commentary in my mind.  Then I can watch again and just sort of "experience" it rather than be in analysis mode.  

Having said that, here's my thoughts:

Jody - So many good scenes. So many perfect "Kim Rhodes" moments.  Her facial acting is always so spot on.  The ONE scene I didn't like of hers is the argument when they tell Claire about Patience' vision.  Jody had a good point to make and they quickly developed into the 'it's the same old tired argument' (ala Sam and John w/ Dean in the middle in 'Dead Man's Blood'.  I felt it worked much better for the Winchesters than it did for the Mills/Novak fight.  I think it's because I have more respect for Jody than I do John.  Of course, if I had to deal with "know i all" Claire, I'd lose my shit too.

Donna - Best lines (except Dean). "You too Rainbow Bright." and "Hiya Buddy!" (to the monster... which turned into monsters).  I'm ridiculously attached to Donna.  And she has such a way of making you feel like it's all going to be okay.  Brianna did a great job with her, as always.  Although I wish we could have had a her and the boys scene.  

Claire - I was more annoyed on first viewing than on second.  I think her brashness was taken down a peg 3 different times.  First was when Jody had to bail her out of the blue-goo monster fight. Second when Patience vision came true. And third, when Kaia got killed.  But honestly, it all rings pretty true.  When you are late teens, early twenties, you think either you'll get away OR you'll die in a blaze of glory.  You don't think about having to live with an innocent dying because they followed your lead.  Or, for the real world, living in a wheel chair for the rest of your life cause you did something stupid.  Claire got a big faceful of consequences and that was a good thing.  I do think she did well as a hunter with the werewolves in the opener.  Finally, from an acting perspective, the fight with Jody annoyed as did some of her cockiness.  She was supposed to be cocky but it was a little too William Shatner in line reading for me.  Still, I liked it a lot better (on balance) on second viewing.

Alex - I REALLY liked Alex's POV this episode.  I loved that she became Ms Autopsy.  And having a medical professional who really got a calm head on her shoulders is great.  I liked her earnestness with both Claire and Patience.  Favorite moment: snapping on the blue gloves to dive into the examination of the creature.

Patience - She was a little pushed into the background but I liked her coming back and telling off Claire about ignoring her visions.  I liked her honesty about not knowing if they always come true.  And I LOVED how she was still reeling about killing a monster.  I feel she, more than anyone else, had a "life changing" moment.  She's not going back to Dad.  Although I thinnk she'll work out (remotely) how to get her diploma.  She's too practical, and Jody would push for it.

Kaia - She was kinda my favorite.  The actress did a great job in portraying someone terrified and yet also crushing (she was so in awe of Claire).  I was pissed that they killed her. BUT in addition to Dark!Kaia coming through the rift, they showed the blood still spilling out of the wound.  Blood only moves if the heart pumps it out.  I think she's not dead (at least I really HOPE she's not dead).

Sam - He'd eat eventually.  I don't blame him for waiting until he was REALLY hungry before going for the lizard.  Did not look tasty.  I find it funny how in real life Jared eats like a horse and on the show Sam can go a while without food.

Dean - Best line ("It taste like lizard.").  I liked how he had confidence in Jody and I think it's well placed. Good job on Jensen for adding that little comedy bit about going back for the food.  It may have been in the script but he does those little moments so well.

Plot points:
1) I like the blue-goo monsters.  I think the NEW rift is going to be a problem.
2) Dark!Kaia is intriguing.  As soon as I saw her entire body (even covered head to toe in wool) I KNEW it was Kaia.  Body curves (with tiny waist) and long skirt made it likely a woman. Short and small made it likely Kaia.  I did NOT like that she got the drop on Sam and Dean BUT all shows need to have these plotonium moments to make it look like the heroes are in jeopardy.  I would have rather it was her knocking them out with some sort of trap (they really weren't expecting human intelligence) BUT they needed her to look BADASS so.. plotonium.  
3) It looked like Kaia was unconscious for at least two days and literally miles away from the boat when she was thrown in the "explosion" so I can buy the boys being far away from the rift with no sense of what direction to look in.  Plus they apparently were alert much faster than Kaia.  That Kaia took Claire to the place where the giant skull was kinda makes sense because she had been there in her dreamwalking before.  Sort of looked like a unique landmark (the skull).  That's the last thing she saw in her head before the explosion so taking Claire there works for me.
4) Jody is going to have to find someplace besides the backyard for those creatures.  Their bodyfluids may kill the local fauna.  Just sayin.  

Nits associated with a pilot (IMO):
1) Makeup continuity error.  Claire's split lip kinda dissapeared in the hospital and had an inconsistent presence on her face.
2) Ease on up with the grey hair coloring of Jody please! Kim is not that grey.
3) A few stilted "trying too hard" moments but not horrible bad.

Extra points:
1) They clearly got an overhead establishing shot of the actual falls of Sioux Falls for this episode. 

 

Bottom Line: I really liked the episode but still looked at it as a pilot with guest stars Sam and Dean.  That's okay.  That was my expectation.  I like Claire's emotional growth in this episode.  I really like all the characters in the potential new spinoff.  "It taste like lizard." may become a new tagline. 

[Lord Kira]

It was better than Bloodlines, so I guess they can be satisfied in that regard. But it still wasn't good. Okay, but not good.

The opening song was horrendous. If you want Supernatural fans to associate your spin-off with the mothership, don't exchange classic rock for whatever that shit was.

Claire - The opening scene was terrible. I swear it felt like she was posing for the camera to look cool at certain times. It was way too try hard. Luckily, Claire was much better the rest of the episode. Her interactions with Kaia and Alex were good.

Jodi - Her worst episode. Burying the body instead of burning it seems plain stupid when you have no idea what the monster is in the first place. Plus, her treatment of Claire like an idiot incapable child was really grating. Claire, as annoying as she can be, has proven to be a capable hunter. She's of age and isn't really related to Jodi, so I have no problem with her asserting her independence.

Kaia - I hated her in the previous episode, but liked her here. Its a shame she died. I don't have the any real attachment to her doppleganger.

Patience - Boring waste of space.

Alex - I liked her in this episode, but I admit I don't remember much about her in previous episodes. Her suddenly having a job at the hospital felt like obvious spin-off set-up. 

Donna - Annoying as always.

Speaking of annoying, what was with all of the standing around staring at stuff when they are on a time sensitive mission. Jodi and Claire staring at each other while their friends are fighting the monsters. You are wasting time and could get your friends killed! The same thing at the end when instead of immediately going through the portal everyone stops and turns around to look at the monster.

Sam and Dean were good as always. I call bullshit on Darth Dickwad taking them down. But hey, making main characters dumber to prop up lesser characters is an industry staple.

The voice-over and the journal entry was terrible. Claire clearly can't do voice-overs and the whole 'these amazing women' felt way to on the nose and was definitely groan worthy.

If it makes it to series, I give it a watch or two. But if this is the kind of writing we can expect, I doubt I will stick with it.

[KirkB]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

Kaia - She was kinda my favorite.  The actress did a great job in portraying someone terrified and yet also crushing (she was so in awe of Claire).  I was pissed that they killed her. BUT in addition to Dark!Kaia coming through the rift, they showed the blood still spilling out of the wound.  Blood only moves if the heart pumps it out.  I think she's not dead (at least I really HOPE she's not dead).

I agree with you on Kaia. As for the crush, I'm glad it wasn't just me seeing that. It goes a long way toward explaining both Kaia's willingness/eagerness to go back (if she was trying to impress Claire) to the bad place and Claire's grief over losing someone she just met, that is assuming she was having some of the same feelings, and I kind of think she was. Where the blood is concerned I didn't notice it was still spilling, but if you're right that makes the whole thing worse. It's bad enough they left Kaia's body behind, but if she's alive, alone, and badly wounded in a place she's terrified of?  :(

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I did NOT like that she got the drop on Sam and Dean BUT all shows need to have these plotonium moments to make it look like the heroes are in jeopardy.

To be fair, Sam and Dean have been known to charge into rooms and get knocked immediately out by whatever monster happens to be there. Them getting caught off guard is not unprecedented. In the end they are just human after all.

1 hour ago, SueB said:

4) Jody is going to have to find someplace besides the backyard for those creatures.  Their bodyfluids may kill the local fauna.  Just sayin.

That, and pretty soon her yard will start getting awfully full. Unless she stacks them on top of each other?

Edited January 20, 2018 by KirkB

[nightwing877]

Quote

The voice-over and the journal entry was terrible. Claire clearly can't do voice-overs and the whole 'these amazing women' felt way to on the nose and was definitely groan worthy.

Yeah I hope these don't' continue. They feel so Vampire Diaries and Arrow. I know X-Files does these too with Scully, but at least I can stand Gillian Anderson (Scully's) voice. Claire's voice puts me off. 

[Myrelle]

I tried to watch it, but it was so bad that I couldn't stay onboard.

Claire was the biggest problem for me. The character is so unlikeable to me. And that's too bad because I've always liked Alex, and the new teens seemed okay. I never thought that Jody and Donna would ever be anything more than support players for the teens, tbh. We are talking about the CW here, after all.

[nightwing877]

8 hours ago, dalek said:

 

I think I would have liked this better if the show hadn't killed off the female characters I liked in earlier seasons, since a Wayward Sisters with Jodie, and Alex, Donna Jo and Ellen, and Charlie would have been my dream show.  And would have been much better in terms of the acting.Enjoyed the "it tastes like lizard" moment.

1

Yeah, this just makes me sad because Ellen and Jo - the original wayward sisters died. I really think the show would have been so great if they didn't lose them, and I'm sure fans would be screaming if Charlie was alive to be on it. If Jo was alive I'd replace Claire with her in a heartbeat. 

But the best spin-off would have been Bobby, Rufus, Ellen, Jo, Jody, and Alex. Now that would be the spin-off dream team. Since I actually like Jo more than Claire and feel she would fit better for her character type. Ditching the newbies for Bobby, Rufus, and Ellen. With Jo and Alex being the only young characters in the cast. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by nightwing877

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, KirkB said:

To be fair, Sam and Dean have been known to charge into rooms and get knocked immediately out by whatever monster happens to be there. Them getting caught off guard is not unprecedented. In the end they are just human after all

Only when the heaviest dose of plotonium requires it. And I bitch long and loud when it happens. Like in the Hitler episode.

[sarthaz]

On 1/18/2018 at 9:06 PM, catrox14 said:

That is some hot fucking garbage. And they couldn't have at least toasted her, prayed for her, gave her a fake hunter's funeral? I don't get it.

So. Much. Suck.  I was really looking forward to this, but it was too awful for words.  Half the episode was Jody and her team of misfit toys shooting and missing a bunch of extras from some Off Broadway musical.  Seriously, what the fuck were those "monsters".  They were jumping and diving about like a bad stage play.  None of it was even the least bit menacing, and suddenly Jody, who's been shown to be a badass with firearms, can't hit a damn thing.  For the first time, I think I'm hoping this doesn't go to series.  It'll just be embarrassing for all of them.

1 hour ago, Lord Kira said:

It was better than Bloodlines

Honestly, I'm not so sure.

[MysteryGuest]

Obviously leaving Kaia behind in the Bad Place was plot driven, but in the characters' defense, the rift was closing.  There was certainly no time to bury her or have any sort of memorial for her.  They could have grabbed her and taken her with them, but then we wouldn't get the suspense of Alternate Kaia.   I get why they wanted her left behind, but then they should have made those scenes flow better.  There was an awful lot of just standing around, staring at the monster while the rift was closing.  If they could take the time to do that, then they should have been able to take the time to pick up Kaia.  So they needed to make things appear more urgent than they did.

As for the music, I think it was deliberate.  No classic rock for this show.  They're trying to appeal to a younger audience and letting the show have it's own soundtrack is one way to do that.  I actually wouldn't have wanted some great classic tunes to be playing.  This is a different show.  Hell, we don't even get too much great music on SPN anymore, so I'd have been pissed if they gave those songs to Wayward.

I can't imagine that the sole plot of Wayward will involve hunting down those new monsters.  They really were pretty easy to kill.  I'm assuming we'll get a mix, just like on SPN.  They've made it part of canon that Jody has been hunting by herself and with Claire over the past few seasons.  My guess is she's been hunting the same monsters we've seen...vamps, werewolves, etc. so I expect to see more of them, along with more new monsters from the Bad Place.

If I weren't a fan of SPN, this pilot would not have made me desperate to tune in.  I don't watch anything else on the CW, in fact I don't watch any other shows live.  I got sucked into SPN, but it wasn't the monsters that drew me, it was the story of these two brothers.  I know we all watch for different reasons, but that was the draw for me, and it's what's kept me around this long, and what will keep me around until the end.  

[DeeDee79]

Interesting review of the episode:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/19/16907940/supernatural-wayward-sisters-spinoff-pilot-review

[catrox14]

37 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Interesting review of the episode:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/19/16907940/supernatural-wayward-sisters-spinoff-pilot-review

"Interesting" is not the word I would use for that review. I'm just gonna back away and save my thoughts for later.

[DeeDee79]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

"Interesting" is not the word I would use for that review. I'm just gonna back away and save my thoughts for later.

"Interesting" was my way of being diplomatic. This review and others that I have read are crap along the same lines.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

"Interesting" was my way of being diplomatic. This review and others that I have read are crap along the same lines.

LOL. I gotcha. 

[ahrtee]

Here's a thought...if (as one of the articles noted) they're pushing this as a show about women, written and directed by women (which doesn't seem accurate so far), maybe Buck-Leming will move to WS!  :)

[Casseiopeia]

Here is an alternate review.  I happen to agree with almost all of it....well all of it.  Especially the last paragraph.

 

https://movietvtechgeeks.com/supernatural-wayward-sisters-spin-off-gives-no-reason-carry/

Edited January 20, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

Here is an alternate review.  I happen to agree with almost all of it....well all of it.  Especially the last paragraph.

 

https://movietvtechgeeks.com/supernatural-wayward-sisters-spin-off-gives-no-reason-carry/

I agreed with everything except the bring back Gamble nonsense because No. Just No to that, IMO; but otherwise all very good, well-stated, and salient points and comments concerning the spin-off and why some will give it a hard pass.

And I couldn't agree more with the thought that Dabb and Berens mined Tumblr, for their ideas. That actually made me LOL because it seems so true(eta-sorry this might have come from the other review...)

But the best part was the comments, IMO. ;-)

Edited January 20, 2018 by Myrelle

[SueB]

25 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Here is an alternate review.  I happen to agree with almost all of it....well all of it.  Especially the last paragraph.

 

https://movietvtechgeeks.com/supernatural-wayward-sisters-spin-off-gives-no-reason-carry/

My thoughts on the review. 

1) It wasn't a "badly disguised pilot", it was a spin-off pilot.  It never pretended to be otherwise.  And the casual viewer may not have known it but the casual viewer also rolled with "French Mistake", "Weekend at Bobby's", and "Bitten".  The casual viewer knows Supernatural off-roads on format all the time.  Plus each of the characters had already been introduced and their backstory organically provided.

2) I think it had the whiff of "CW and WB executive" stink on it with the emphasis on Claire Novak and lingering shots BUT I also think Berens did a credible job of undermining the "white savior" complex of Claire's.  He has Jody save her from the Blue-Goo monster. He shows her admiting that her "blaze of glory" theory of death is prety stupid when faced with the reality of her mortality when one of Patience' visions comes true.  And finally, she got a gut full of guilt for her reckless behavior and rightly feels some culpabiility for Kaia's death.  I think Beren's showed he knew Claire has an issue with hubris and he intends to deflate that ego.

3) I think they also may be subverting the "fridging" trope.  Between Dark!Kaia, the blood flow, and Beren's "Kaia lives"; I think Kaia will ultimately be reunited with her Dark side like Good/Dark!Charlie were reunited.

4) She's right, the spinoff will get picked up.

5) She's also right, this is not the show she signed up for.  It's a different show.  It's a spinoff with an ensemble cast called "Wayward Sisters".  The "Sam and Dean" show of Supernatural will continue along just fine.

Edited January 20, 2018 by SueB

[auntvi]

1 minute ago, SueB said:

I tried to comment on that article but the comments wouldn't post. 

Your comment is there now. They must hold comments for review.

[SueB]

1 minute ago, auntvi said:

Your comment is there now. They must hold comments for review.

Found it. Edited my note above.  Thanks.

[Casseiopeia]

19 minutes ago, SueB said:

My thoughts on the review. 

1) It wasn't a "badly disguised pilot", it was a spin-off pilot.  It never pretended to be otherwise.  And the casual viewer may not have known it but the casual viewer also rolled with "French Mistake", "Weekend at Bobby's", and "Bitten".  The casual viewer knows Supernatural off-roads on format all the time.  Plus each of the characters had already been introduced and their backstory organically provided.

2) I think it had the whiff of "CW and WB executive" stink on it with the emphasis on Claire Novak and lingering shots BUT I also think Berens did a credible job of undermining the "white savior" complex of Claire's.  He has Jody save her from the Blue-Goo monster. He shows her admiting that her "blaze of glory" theory of death is prety stupid when faced with the reality of her mortality when one of Patience' visions comes true.  And finally, she got a gut full of guilt for her reckless behavior and rightly feels some culpabiility for Kaia's death.  I think Beren's showed he knew Claire has an issue with hubris and he intends to deflate that ego.

3) I think they also may be subverting the "fridging" trope.  Between Dark!Kaia, the blood flow, and Beren's "Kaia lives"; I think Kaia will ultimately be reunited with her Dark side like Good/Dark!Charlie were reunited.

4) She's right, the spinoff will get picked up.

5) She's also right, this is not the show she signed up for.  It's a different show.  It's a spinoff with an ensemble cast called "Wayward Sisters".  The "Sam and Dean" show of Supernatural will continue along just fine.

I read that comment too.  I did agree with her last paragraph.  I would have rather watched an hour of Sam and Dean in the Bad Place.

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Here is an alternate review.  I happen to agree with almost all of it....well all of it.  Especially the last paragraph.

 

https://movietvtechgeeks.com/supernatural-wayward-sisters-spin-off-gives-no-reason-carry/

I find also, annoying but for different reasons. Basically I don't agree with either review for the most part.
 

[Myrelle]

I didn't like it because it seemed like they were trying to rip-off the original, while simultaneously not allowing the two original lead characters(who are badass hunters, too, btw) to exhibit any badassity at all-in fact they were Deansel and Samsel in Distress and nothing more, tbh-oh wait, they were also comedic relief(albeit in a scene that I've seen referred to by more than a few as the best of the episode-go figure)-which is not unusual in the least for Dabb or Berens when they're trying to prop any given character-so poor writing, again and some more, from these two; and  a lot of the acting WAS wooden and/or downright laughably bad, IMO also.

That was what I agreed with the most from that review.  A lot of the other stuff was there also, again IMO, but it wasn't the biggest thing that turned me off this episode, even while I could absolutely see it as being a very big dealbreaker for others.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Myrelle

[ILoveReading]

14 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

albeit in a scene that I've seen referred to by more than a few as the best of the episode-go figure)

I think that once again that scene didn't turn out how Berens/Dabb imagined it.  I think it was supposed to be strictly for comic relief, and more "look Dean eats no matter the circumstances.  Ha Ha."  But it basically reminded the audience that Dean is a survivor.  That he survived a year in Purgatory with his wits and his skills.  This Dean wouldn't have lasted five minutes.

It's another example of the lack of communication between writers.   What's worse is I think these two episode were a collaboration between Beren's and Dabb.  In The Bad Place, we had a Dean so desperate to get to Mary he held a gun to a teenagers head.  Now suddenly, he's chill with living in Monsterland forever and not even giving Mary a 2nd thought.   No way Sam and Dean don't keep looking for the rif.  If for not other reason.  Mary should have gotten a cursory mention, like Jack did.

I don't have a problem with Sam and Dean needing help.  I don't even have a problem with it being woman.  It becomes a problem for me when they don't even let Sam and Dean keep their basic skills to make the scene work. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

ETA: I agree with some of the criticisms of the plot, treatment of Kaia, which I pointed out in my own commentary.

I don't agree with the misogyny charges and attempts at revisionist history of women in the show. The show is about the brothers. It always has been and characters are brought in to support that story. Implying that women are disregarded in the narrative is simply...false. 

The second review goes too far in it's criticism of the people that support WS.

[ILoveReading]

Last season Sam and Dean went missing for 6 weeks and no one noticed. 

Now Sam and Dean are don't answer after Jody calls once and she sounds the alarm?

[bozodegama]

It’s pretty clear Wayward will be picked up no matter what i think.  The way i see it is that Supernatural was/is a special show and Wayward is just a totally different show with a few familiar faces.  I feel like Supernatural just gave the finger to its older, male audience, like me.  No classic rock, no men in the cast at all, a really juvenile script.  If Supernatural was misogynistic to its female characters , why go 100 percent in the opposite direction?  You’ll just alienate the other segment of your fans and end up with the opposite problem.  I still would’ve watched the show if they had good music, but a big no to generic rock.  If you need to have female rock, why not use Chrissy’s Hynde or if it has to be modern, Soraia.  Either way, they have to tweak the show if it’s goung to be successful imo. 

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

Here's a thought...if (as one of the articles noted) they're pushing this as a show about women, written and directed by women (which doesn't seem accurate so far), maybe Buck-Leming will move to WS!  :)

I'll take it!

[Wayward Son]

3 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Interesting review of the episode:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/19/16907940/supernatural-wayward-sisters-spinoff-pilot-review

We’ll written article I largely agree :)

[catrox14]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

Last season Sam and Dean went missing for 6 weeks and no one noticed. 

Now Sam and Dean are don't answer after Jody calls once and she sounds the alarm?

I think they did notice. At least Cas and Mary. I never understood why Cas didn't call Claire to tell Jody or call Jody himself to put an APB out on the boys, or did they and I just forgot?

Here Claire didn't even try to contact Castiel for help. You know the angel that she supposedly really cared about and kept the Grumpy Cat plushie he gave her. I mean seriously. Or was he mentioned and I forgot?

[Wayward Son]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think they did notice. At least Cas and Mary. I never understood why Cas didn't call Claire to tell Jody or call Jody himself to put an APB out on the boys, or did they and I just forgot?

Here Claire didn't even try to contact Castiel for help. You know the angel that she supposedly really cared about and kept the Grumpy Cat plushie he gave her. I mean seriously. Or was he mentioned and I forgot?

Nope, but I’m not surprised. Since season 11 Claire’s bond with Castiel has been forgotten and she has been transferred to Sam and Dean. Much like last season built up the Jack/Cas connection and instead the focus shifted to Sam/Jack and to a lesser extent Dean/Jack. Basically, if the show introduces a Cas orientated character the audience seems to like they’ll get stolen from Cas and shifted over to Sam and Dean.