Previous Episodes Discussion

[Diapason Untuned]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

But of course, this show, much like its parent show is ridiculously misogynistic, so the men are always right. 🙄

Are you talking about the same Black-ish where Dre acts the fool every week and usually gets cut down to size?

Quote

Junior has NO room to be giving advice about how to be sincere when he runs second only to his & Zoey's mom, in the 'Do As I Say, Not As I Do' race.

I can see where you're coming from here, but I don't think this precludes him from giving advice to her for all time.

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It's especially gross when you consider, Zoey expected him to be on her side and he's too busy macking on another one of her friends, thus potentially creating yet another awkward interpersonal situation.

Zoey only brought him out so she could have an excuse to check Luca.

As soon as she saw her friends she ditched him with them and didn't approach him for the rest of the night, so that was the extent of being on her side she expected from him.

In fact, judging from their conversation, she told him nothing about what was going on anyway. I can only imagine what excuse she used to drag him out. 

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Luca is SUPER trash. Like, he's ALWAYS insisting their relationship be on his terms and acts like a petulant child any time Zoey chooses to acknowledge her own complicated feelings.

Guy wasn't even acting petulant though...

Just seemed like he wasn't into her drama right now.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Diapason Untuned

[jumper sage]

On 6/8/2019 at 1:45 AM, Dee said:

She cares because he's dating her BEST FRIEND. Of all the women Aaron could've hooked up with, he hooked up with someone in Zoey's inner circle.

That's REALLY foul, especially given Aaron & Zoey remained friends after she turned him down.

@Dee - you are kidding with us right?  Hilarious.

3 hours ago, Dee said:

Junior has NO room to be giving advice about how to be sincere when he runs second only to his & Zoey's mom, in the 'Do As I Say, Not As I Do' race. It's especially gross when you consider, Zoey expected him to be on her side and he's too busy macking on another one of her friends, thus potentially creating yet another awkward interpersonal situation

You don't have siblings do you?  Expected him to be on her side!  I am crying with laughter.  

[gesundheit]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Speaking of Girl Code, does it have anything to say about girls hitting on their friends brothers? Junior really did look good at the bar, and he gave her some good advice. 

Even if Nomi isnt in her teachers class anymore, it still very questionable for a teacher to date a student. I think its an interesting issue to deal with for the show, especially with it being a female teacher and student.

Junior did give her some very good advice (my god, her apology to Luka was garbage -- she said "I forgive you" before "I'm sorry," acting like she was being magnanimous for something horrible he'd done), but damn, I'm never going to say he looks good with that terrible mustache. Cannot do it.

I really liked that the professor shut things down last season (or season part A? I don't understand Freeform seasons), so this really irritates me that they're back together now just because Nomi isn't in her class anymore. It's really icky, especially considering the kind of class she teaches -- not exactly practicing what she preaches about feminism and power differentials, etc. I'd love to see Nomi in her first serious relationship, but this ain't it. Very disappointing.

[Dee]

It's gonna be fun to watch Luca & Aaron go down in flames.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S2.E14: Can't Knock the Hustle

Quote

Zoey starts to feel the impact of her dwindling bank account. Her friends encourage her to get a job, but she struggles to find something that vibes with her career goals. Ana and Aaron consider attempting the shield challenge.

Original air date: 6/19/19

[Empress1]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Her friends encourage her to get a job, but she struggles to find something that vibes with her career goals.

She just needs a J-O-B. Why not work retail since she's interested in fashion?

[readster]

22 hours ago, Empress1 said:

She just needs a J-O-B. Why not work retail since she's interested in fashion?

No kidding! Also give an inside of what people are looking into from low end to high end fashion. 

[Empress1]

Andre and Bow really did Zoe a disservice by not instilling a work ethic in her. 

[Dee]

Everything about the writing for Zoey, on Grownish, is completely contradictory to who the character has always been.

[Empress1]

When Zoe said "Ew" when her friend told her the bookstore was hiring, I wanted to slap the taste out of her mouth. I liked when her friend called her out and said that yes, she DID mean that "Ew" the way it sounded because that's who she is. And while Nomi's relationship with her professor is suspect, her comment about how Zoe was in the right job for her because she was lying around doing nothing while looking down on everyone was spot on. AND on top of that she's not even opening her books??

I don't remember her being so insufferable on black-ish but she is insufferable on this show.

[tennisgurl]

"GET! A! REAL! JOB!"

God Zoe was getting on my very last nerve this week, what a spoiled brat with zero work ethic she is. Did she really think that she would never have to pay her dues before the fashion industry just handed her a fashion label to run? And the nerve to actually "Ew" at working in the campus bookstore her friend works at! Glad that he called her out because, yes, that Ew meant exactly what it sounded like. She thinks she is too good to work a job that just about every other college student would love to work, including ones who are actually having to pay for their room and their tuition. At least she might finally have a clue now, and maybe this job will instill the work ethic in her that Dre and Bow clearly forgot to do. Its especially bad that she was whining in front of the twins, who actually DO have to worry about tuition and paying for housing. Its four years of the Hunger Games! 

It looks like the affair Nomi is having with the professor is going to be the next issue/controversy that the show tackles, which I think will be interesting. 

[Empress1]

When she bragged about her internship at Teen Vogue I wanted someone to point out that she posted a picture on social media of their entire whatever-season line, likely costing them literal millions in ad sales on top of the negative publicity, and was VERY lucky to even have a job there after that (I'd have fired her). Her acting like she has all this experience was laughable - she just doesn't, and what she HAS done, she's fucked up. Which is OK at 19, but it also means she doesn't have nearly the options she thinks she does. Zoe needs to take her climate-controlled retail job that will likely work with her to accommodate her class schedule (on-campus jobs tend to be good for that), do it, and shut the fuck up.

[possibilities]

Is ANYONE as obnoxious as Zoey? I  mean, on TV or in real life? She was so horrible that it was actually straining credulity. Why do any of her friends put up with her? She's soooo insulting to them personally, as well as soooo lazy and spoiled, AND she's constantly creating drama.

Aaron seemed unhappy in that last scene with Ana. That was a quick change in attitude. Much faster than I expected.

[Empress1]

52 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Aaron seemed unhappy in that last scene with Ana. That was a quick change in attitude. Much faster than I expected.

Methinks some commitment-phobia/fear of making things official is coming. I know my way around commitment-phobes, unfortunately. Aaron got shook when Ana said "couple."

[luna1122]

59 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Methinks some commitment-phobia/fear of making things official is coming. I know my way around commitment-phobes, unfortunately. Aaron got shook when Ana said "couple."

Didn't she actually say something about having kids? I'd run screaming too. Slow your roll, Ana.

Zoe IS unsufferable, but she appeared to learn something, like she did last week, so that's good. I do think this show, which I find vastly superior to Blackish in many ways, has rewritten Zoey as not nearly as smart as she used to be. She used to study and make good grades, in high school, didn't she? She was spoiled but not vapid and arrogant.

She DID rock that pink wig and silver tinsely flapper dress, tho.

[gesundheit]

I found Zoe's extreme visceral repulsion at the idea of egg donation a little bizarre on top of everything else. I mean it's fine if she doesn't want to do it, but she was acting like it meant selling a baby.

[Dee]

6 hours ago, luna1122 said:

She was spoiled but not vapid and arrogant.

Exactly. Zoey was self involved and spoiled but she wasn't afraid of commitment or hard work, especially if it was something she believed in.

[Pallida]

On 6/12/2019 at 9:53 PM, possibilities said:

They did mildly try to suggest she get over it, by asking her to hang out together and let go of the beef. But it wasn't really strong enough. Luca also wasn't giving her a pass, but he wasn't being direct, either. I was glad to see Junior get through to her. Aaron also softened her up a bit. It's a little disappointing that they imported dudes to show her their wisdom, though. It's kind of gross that the girls are all drama and the dudes are chill mixed with reasonableness. Does this show actually respect females, or is it just showcasing a condescending tolerance and amusement towards its female protagonists?

With a little bit of tweaking, I think this comment would work for this episode too. The girls all told her to get a job, but who was able to get through to her?

Egg harvesting/donation isn’t easy on the body, so I hope they don’t go that route for someone else. In fact, I wonder if the drugs given to egg donors would be on a banned substance list and screw one of the twins out of track. I wouldn’t be surprised if it hurt performance. 

I realize Nomi was freaking out because she knows the relationship with a professor is questionable, but I’m annoyed at the reaction to Zoey as a living mannequin. Maybe there’s some objectification- but then again, the fashion industry does the same thing. $25/hour is far better money than she’ll make at the bookstore. I would have preferred the box job be something very temporary, rather than a job she walked out on. 

So who’s going to teach these girls that on a fixed income, you don’t buy organic milk by the pint? (I think the carton was smaller than a quart at least...)

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Exactly. Zoey was self involved and spoiled but she wasn't afraid of commitment or hard work, especially if it was something she believed in.

Could just be growth.. I knew folks who were rock star students in HS... But the freedom of being on your own caught  them up for a bit.. And I get the feeling that before the chemistry debacle she was still doing ok.. Even tho she was partying and what not... And it caught up with her.. She already seems like she's righting the ship so I don't mind it as much... I do mind the sisters constantly being so snappy.. They're starting to feel a bit one-note I'd like for sky to have something to do 

[Dee]

2 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Could just be growth.. I knew folks who were rock star students in HS... But the freedom of being on your own caught  them up for a bit.. And I get the feeling that before the chemistry debacle she was still doing ok.. Even tho she was partying and what not... And it caught up with her.. She already seems like she's righting the ship so I don't mind it as much... I do mind the sisters constantly being so snappy.. They're starting to feel a bit one-note I'd like for sky to have something to do 

Except it isn't growth. Zoey partying too much and getting cut off is fine. Zoey was doing well academically in college. It was only because she dropped one of her classes mid-semester that she needed to do well in chemistry to maintain her GPA.

However having her turn her nose up at getting a job and overemphasizing her self involvement, while her vapid friends lecture her, is terrible writing. Especially when there is a much more complex, and interesting, character arc to be mined, that doesn't involve the usual Black-ish/Grown-ish verse misogyny.

[jumper sage]

On 6/19/2019 at 10:12 PM, Dee said:

Everything about the writing for Zoey, on Grownish, is completely contradictory to who the character has always been.

No it's not.  She never had to lift a finger at home.  She was daddy's favorite.

11 hours ago, Pallida said:

So who’s going to teach these girls that on a fixed income, you don’t buy organic milk by the pint?

You can buy organic if you watch for sales and stock up.  Organic milk is usually good for 3 months before opening and up to  2 weeks after opening.

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

Is ANYONE as obnoxious as Zoey? I  mean, on TV or in real life?

I work with teens and yes some of them are just like her.  I know quite a few, both boys and girls, who live in a lower income area and their parents will forgo rent to buy them whatever they want.  The kids never have jobs and the teaching staff tries to prepare them for the future but their parents will come in and say that their kids are prepared for life.  No they are not.  At prom, these same parents who are in the eviction process, will pay for handmade dresses, limos, hair and makeup.................... It's kids from all nationalities.

22 hours ago, Empress1 said:

When she bragged about her internship at Teen Vogue I wanted someone to point out that she posted a picture on social media of their entire whatever-season line, likely costing them literal millions in ad sales on top of the negative publicity,

Oh yeah!  She did do that.

On 6/17/2019 at 12:32 PM, readster said:

On 6/16/2019 at 1:42 PM, Empress1 said:

She just needs a J-O-B. Why not work retail since she's interested in fashion?

No kidding! Also give an inside of what people are looking into from low end to high end fashion. 

Loved how we saw her working retail after Luca called in a favor and she fucked it up.

I think we are going to see the inappropriate professor story line.

[luckyroll3]

13 hours ago, Pallida said:

$25/hour is far better money than she’ll make at the bookstore. I would have preferred the box job be something very temporary, rather than a job she walked out on. 

Honestly, the box job looked sweet.  She got to lounge and read in a cute outfit for $25/hour?  I'd be down for that.  Definitely better than dealing with budgets all day....

12 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I'd like for sky to have something to do 

You mean other than Junior?  😄 

[jumper sage]

8 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

Honestly, the box job looked sweet.  She got to lounge and read in a cute outfit for $25/hour?  I'd be down for that.  Definitely better than dealing with budgets all day....

You are right.  I would do it too.  She could even study for chemistry.

[Racj82]

14 hours ago, Pallida said:

With a little bit of tweaking, I think this comment would work for this episode too. The girls all told her to get a job, but who was able to get through to her?

Egg harvesting/donation isn’t easy on the body, so I hope they don’t go that route for someone else. In fact, I wonder if the drugs given to egg donors would be on a banned substance list and screw one of the twins out of track. I wouldn’t be surprised if it hurt performance. 

I realize Nomi was freaking out because she knows the relationship with a professor is questionable, but I’m annoyed at the reaction to Zoey as a living mannequin. Maybe there’s some objectification- but then again, the fashion industry does the same thing. $25/hour is far better money than she’ll make at the bookstore. I would have preferred the box job be something very temporary, rather than a job she walked out on. 

So who’s going to teach these girls that on a fixed income, you don’t buy organic milk by the pint? (I think the carton was smaller than a quart at least...)

On the first part, it's not about gender. The actual comparison is that it's outsiders she is listening to and not her inner circle. They are not complete strangers but they are living outside of her dilemma.

[AnimeMania]

They did make one valid social commentary this week, Zoey paid hundreds of dollars for her course books, but when she returned them she only got $35.00.

[dungeonwriter]

I actually liked Dre saying "Proud of you, but you're still cut off." 

Also, I'd have kept the Box Job. It's better money (Campus bookstore jobs are around 10 bucks an hour) and she can listen to free online chemistry lectures at the same time. 

There are 54 videos. Had she worked 20 hours a week, and listened while she worked, in 3 weeks, she'd have 1500 dollars and an ability to pass her exam with at least a D and still had enough time to have a social life. 

[Dee]

6 hours ago, jumper sage said:

No it's not.  She never had to lift a finger at home.  She was daddy's favorite.

Yes it is. She worked at home and at after school internships. Her being Andre's favorite didn't alleviate her work ethic.

[Pallida]

7 hours ago, jumper sage said:

You can buy organic if you watch for sales and stock up.  Organic milk is usually good for 3 months before opening and up to  2 weeks after opening.

Yeah I probably should have left the organic part off 🙂 I was trying to emphasize the dinky size of the carton, especially since, as you point out, it lasts a long time. 

[jumper sage]

4 hours ago, Dee said:

Yes it is. She worked at home and at after school internships. Her being Andre's favorite didn't alleviate her work ethic.

She had 1 internship and she messed it up by being all Zoey-is-the-greatest and not even considering the problems her actions caused.  She did well in high school, but seriously, how hard is high school?

[Dee]

52 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

She had 1 internship

She actually had an internship BEFORE college too.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Mr. EB and I chose not to have kids and we sometimes joke about how lucky our non-born children are that we didn't have them because they would hate us for not spoiling them. I'm sorry, but any kid without a job does not get YSL boots.

Zoe's stank attitude about what kind of job she wanted reminded me of Heidi Montag the first season of The Hills. She was a first year student at FIDM and somehow managed to get an interview for an internship. She fully expected that without any job experience or a degree that she would be given a job as an event planner in LA. She got annoyed when she learned that her internship would consist of grunt work, not wearing glamorous party dresses and being the gatekeeper at exclusive events for Hollywood celebrities. My mouth was so agape while watching that episode that I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. That spoiled sense of entitlement is exactly what I remembered while watching Zoe shoot down every work suggestion that her friends came up with. Girl, you are not too good to work at the bookstore or folding t-shirts.

I was glad that the twins pointed out how lucky Zoe was that her parents were still paying for her tuition, books, and room & board. To me, that doesn't really count as being cut off. BOO HOO, I have to pay for my own expensive clothes and expensive food! Cry me a freaking river.

I know some girls who sold their eggs when they were in college. It's definitely a way to get a big chunk of money at once, but it's a long and invasive process. It's not a decision anyone should make on a whim.

I loved that Doug was so blunt with Zoe, both about her shitty attitude and about how to use a job to learn skills. He was definitely right about how working at the bookstore can teach you a lot about how a business is run if you are willing to pay attention. Any legitimate store or business can teach you about marketing, sales projections, inventory, dealing with vendors and employees, etc. Zoe thought she was too good for boring work like folding shirts and decided to take it upon herself to just do whatever she wanted at the boutique. Hopefully Luca doesn't get a lot of blowback for her terrible attitude.

I don't understand how Paige isn't Nomi's professor anymore. Midterms were just a week or so ago on the show, so how would that work?

I was so grossed out at the idea of Aaron and Ana having sex under that shield. First of all, the kind of ivy that was growing there is the type of ground cover that rats love. Secondly, it must be disgusting underneath the metal shield if other students are having sex down there too. No thanks!

Edited June 23, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S2.E15: Tweakin'

Quote

Labels are on everyone's mind as Ana and Aaron struggle to define what they each want out of their relationship. Doug and Vivek are convinced that Aaron is boo'd up. Zoey tries getting "Luca Jae Hall"-level high, but winds up overdoing it.

Original air date: 6/26/19

[Skyfall]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Mr. EB and I chose not to have kids and we sometimes joke about how lucky our non-born children are that we didn't have them because they would hate us for not spoiling them. I'm sorry, but any kid without a job does not get YSL boots.

Zoe's stank attitude about what kind of job she wanted reminded me of Heidi Montag the first season of The Hills. She was a first year student at FIDM and somehow managed to get an interview for an internship. She fully expected that without any job experience or a degree that she would be given a job as an event planner in LA. She got annoyed when she learned that her internship would consist of grunt work, not wearing glamorous party dresses and being the gatekeeper at exclusive events for Hollywood celebrities. My mouth was so agape while watching that episode that I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. That spoiled sense of entitlement is exactly what I remembered while watching Zoe shoot down every work suggestion that her friends came up with. Girl, you are not too good to work at the bookstore or folding t-shirts.

I was glad that the twins pointed out how lucky Zoe was that her parents were still paying for her tuition, books, and room & board. To me, that doesn't really count as being cut off. BOO HOO, I have to pay for my own expensive clothes and expensive food! Cry me a freaking river.

I know some girls who sold their eggs when they were in college. It's definitely a way to get a big chunk of money at once, but it's a long and invasive process. It's not a decision anyone should make on a whim.

I loved that Doug was so blunt with Zoe, both about her shitty attitude and about how to use a job to learn skills. He was definitely right about how working at the bookstore can teach you a lot about how a business is run if you are willing to pay attention. Any legitimate store or business can teach you about marketing, sales projections, inventory, dealing with vendors and employees, etc. Zoe thought she was too good for boring work like folding shirts and decided to take it upon herself to just do whatever she wanted at the boutique. Hopefully Luca doesn't get a lot of blowback for her terrible attitude.

I don't understand how Paige isn't Nomi's professor anymore. Midterms were just a week or so ago on the show, so how would that work?

I was so grossed out at the idea of Aaron and Ana having sex under that shield. First of all, the kind of ivy that was growing there is the type of ground cover that rats love. Secondly, it must be disgusting underneath the metal shield if other students are having sex down there too. No thanks!

The spring finale was finals right?

[Pallida]

To Zoey’s credit, I think the refolding shirts that were already folded is what irritated her more than the folding itself. A good manager would have explained that doing that was about appearances to customers rather than the “because I said to” attitude. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 hours ago, Skyfall said:

The spring finale was finals right?

No, it was mid-terms, which is why it makes no sense that Paige isn’t Nomi’s professor anymore. 

[Empress1]

Good for Ana for saying what she wanted. I wasted a lot of time and got my feelings hurt dealing with undefined "situationships" in college and in my 20s. And good for her for not getting sucked into the "let's keep hooking up and see what happens" trap when Aaron said he wasn't ready for a real relationship - a mistake I've also made. 

[qtpye]

Is it me or does the actor who plays Aaron not have any chemistry with any of the beautiful women they have him hooking up with on the show? He is kinda like an expressionless robot.

[Dee]

Aaron & Ana are trash. Fitting their 'relationship' is now trash too. 🤣

[ElectricBoogaloo]

What really annoyed me was that Aaron suddenly freaked out about Ana referring to their relationship at the end of the previous episode and then this week he revealed to Doug and Vivek that he has been hanging out with Ana on a daily basis and they spend the night at his place every night for the last month. If it's just hooking up and sex, that's one thing but when you also hang out during the day then it's not surprising that Ana began to feel like they were in a relationship.

But I'm glad that both Ana and Aaron were able to be honest about what they wanted from each other. Too often people can't bring themselves to be really honest about what they want and then one of them ends up giving in to what the other wants.

Someone getting super high/drunk/wasted and freaking out is one of the most overdone and cliche storylines in tv/movies and this one didn't do anything new so I was bored of the entire Zoey/Luca plot this week.

[jumper sage]

On 6/23/2019 at 4:09 PM, Pallida said:

To Zoey’s credit, I think the refolding shirts that were already folded is what irritated her more than the folding itself. A good manager would have explained that doing that was about appearances to customers rather than the “because I said to” attitude. 

Sometimes you have to just be an employee.  

I am glad she got stoned this week.  Where can I get that tea?

[Empress1]

28 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

Sometimes you have to just be an employee.  

Especially when you're young and/or have limited work experience. Zoe is very much in the "do what you're told" phase of her working life.

[Pallida]

Having been a manager of young employees, I think it’s more effective to explain why a seemingly redundant task is being done. Sure, she should have just done what she was being told, but the manager had the opportunity to teach about appearance of being busy and customers.

[gesundheit]

On 6/23/2019 at 7:46 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know some girls who sold their eggs when they were in college. It's definitely a way to get a big chunk of money at once, but it's a long and invasive process. It's not a decision anyone should make on a whim.

I didn't have a problem with her not wanting to do it, it's just that she acted like it's the world's most drastic decision. (Pro-tip from a two-timer: it's totally worth it!)

Well, I guess that's the last we'll see of Zoe's job? They just really want to commit to only telling romance stories anymore. I still quite preferred the first season when other things about being in college were explored, like classes! Activism! Housing! Wasn't Aaron like Mr. Social Justice at one point? Now he doesn't seem to give a crap anymore.

So not only are they moving forward with Nomi's student/professor relationship, they're going to write it so that lying and sneaking around is foreplay? Ugh.

I do have say: boy does Nomi have the most well put-together walk of shame in history! Glad she was able to do a blow-out and full face of makeup at Prof's house!

[tennisgurl]

I appreciate that Aaron and Ana were both honest with each other, but Aaron freaking out NOW of all times and telling Ana he isnt into being in a relationship with her after all if this, seems pretty ridiculous. He and Ana had this whole secret affair, their friend group was almost blown up because they wanted to be together so much, even if they knew Zoe would be pissed, and Ana almost lost one of her best friends over it, and now he is just randomly over it? Then what the fuck has been the point of any of this?!

Can we get back to Zoe and her money issues, why is that not a bigger deal? I did crack up over Lukas random tea set, and his rambling over animal videos with philosophy. Literally sounds like half of my friends in college. 

Public hand holding for the win!

[paulvdb]

Now that we have a full forum I have moved posts about this week's episode into a new episode topic. You can use this topic to discuss older episodes upto S02.E15.

[alexvillage]

I am catching up with this show and I am old so I am also a little confused: what is the thing with all the young people drinking in college? There is booze all the time and it seems to be pretty open. Does this really happen? 

I know that in other shows there would be a big thing about underage drinking and the dangers of it, and I don't really care if the "message" is that "everyone drinks so I will try too". I am curious about how real this is, the booze parties that even the dean seems to be aware of, all the underage drinking that doesn't seem to bother anyone. Is it different in California?

[possibilities]

When I was in college in the early 1980s, there was a huge amount of underage drinking on campus. I'm sure it's no different now.