Season 7 Discussion

[Bessiesue]

We also love seafood, and the shrimp looked yummy to us.  I am glad that the Bates family kept their composure during the tasting.  I also see Gill is still carrying around Judson/Jeb.  

 

No Erin, no amount of re-arranging will make that room look like three beds can fit.  I wonder if they are saving all their money to buy a home, and be able to re-hab it, or are they having to live off the UP money since Chad quit his job.  Thrilled to see Josie/Kelton engaged.  Her wedding will tell just how down to earth she really is.  I hope she continues to work, and staves off children for a while.  BUT, these are the Bates, and sadly no.  She will work until the baby is born, and then stay at home.  With Kelton being a plummer, she will be in much better shape the her sisters.  

I cannot believe Jackson is 16., and driving.  He still looks like he is twelve.  Trace has finally come into his looks, and is very handsome.  I hate being a trick horse rider, is no longer considered a trade for him.  I think not making the basketball team, has really hurt his self esteem.  He seems really unsure of himself right now.  Hopefully learning to fly will help.   

 

The main issue this show has:  Twenty minutes is not enough time to cram everything in the show.  

[zenme]

1 minute ago, Bessiesue said:

We also love seafood, and the shrimp looked yummy to us.  I am glad that the Bates family kept their composure during the tasting.  I also see Gill is still carrying around Judson/Jeb.  

 

No Erin, no amount of re-arranging will make that room look like three beds can fit.  I wonder if they are saving all their money to buy a home, and be able to re-hab it, or are they having to live off the UP money since Chad quit his job.  Thrilled to see Josie/Kelton engaged.  Her wedding will tell just how down to earth she really is.  I hope she continues to work, and staves off children for a while.  BUT, these are the Bates, and sadly no.  She will work until the baby is born, and then stay at home.  With Kelton being a plummer, she will be in much better shape the her sisters.  

I cannot believe Jackson is 16., and driving.  He still looks like he is twelve.  Trace has finally come into his looks, and is very handsome.  I hate being a trick horse rider, is no longer considered a trade for him.  I think not making the basketball team, has really hurt his self esteem.  He seems really unsure of himself right now.  Hopefully learning to fly will help.   

 

The main issue this show has:  Twenty minutes is not enough time to cram everything in the show.  

I'm sure had Trace grown up able to participate in team sports, he would've had a better shot at the team. 

Yes, he has grown into his looks. He's a handsome kid and seems to have a good disposition.

[dixiemama]

I have not seen the new episode however they showed a clip on Instagram and it was of Chad and Erin decorating the children's lair.  Chad seemed to be the only adult in the room, Erin was walking around talking about how wonderful it will be to have a newborn and hold one and how she has missed having a baby.  Umm...isn't your other one only like 1???  He seemed really concerned and looked stressed.  He said he was concerned about her health and he thought he had his hands full with one child!  It made me kind of sad, I wonder if he is in over his head and is too much of a nice guy to be honest about it....I kind of want to give him a hug and a beer.

[BitterApple]

Chad's aged 15 years in the last 5, so life seems to be weighing him down quite a bit these days. However this goes back to what I was saying about these two over in the Duggar thread: do they actually ever sit down and have an honest conversation about anything? Yeah, it's great to be romantic and write corny love letters and profess your spouse to be the Best! Thing! Evah! on Instagram, but at the end of the day they're three babies deep in a matchbox house that they don't even own.

From what I've seen, Chad subscribes to the philosophy of "happy wife, happy life," but when you're wife is an immature dingbat who's never lived in the real world, it's time to retrieve your balls from her purse and say "no more."

[iluvobx]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:27 PM, floridamom said:

They should have let them try fried popcorn shrimp with ketchup or sauce to dip. It was a set up yet again for the show IMO. It's hard to go from not eating any fish or seafood at all immediately to trying raw oysters & clams.  Cooked fish would also have been a more sane thing to try. All episode drive.

I love how Gil weaseled out of his response to one of this sons suggesting that they should go back to the beach when it was HOT in the summer. Gil danced around their 'modesty' belief about seeing other people in normal bathing suits at the beach and just said that there would be 'people' around then. Such idiots.

 

If you check out that house they were staying at, you can understand why not going in the summer.  The summer rental is over 4000.00 a week and that is CHEAP.

Edited June 29, 2018 by iluvobx

[IndianPaintbrush]

Erin's only doing what she was raised to do: have as many babies as possible. If Chad wants to limit the size of their family, he faces a very uphill battle.

[BitterApple]

I don't know if Chad is being hard-headed about not taking out a mortgage or what, but between his income, the show money and whatever Erin has earned teaching piano/selling CD's, they should have more than enough to put a down payment on something by now. Do they have to pay out of pocket for Erin's heparin shots? I'm kind of surprised they're still renting in such a low cost area.

[lookeyloo]

And don't forget Whitney is in real estate, so she can keep her eyes and ears open (snark!!)

[cereality]

Chad and Erin are too stupid for words.  For a girl who was raised to believe her husband was her reason for being on this earth – you’d think she’d take better care of him.  Yeah she cooks for him, but how can she be blind to the fact that he has aged 10-20 years in their 4 years of marriage and looks like the oldest 31 year old ever?? He stood there and directly said – I’m worried about the pregnancy; worried about the baby; worried about whether we can about if we can handle 3 kids under 3; worried about Erin’s health . . . . LONG PAUSE but I’m excited.  And she crowed about – oooohh a picture frame with pics will make this a nursery haven but can you take it down and paint it pink AND it’ll be soooo nice to hold a baby and rock them to sleep again.  Um I didn’t realize your 1 and 2 year olds didn’t count as babies anymore!?

And her dumb mother went on about how they’re going to have 3 in diapers just like she did.  Congrats?? Maybe tell your daughter that her husband appears to be breaking under the stress and it’s in her interest to keep her husband as stress free as possible.  Sure they won’t use BC – maybe just have less sex? I mean if he can't find his balls and be the headship that decides to slow down the baby train, can't he fake more exhaustion and headaches?

They’ve said before that they will only buy in cash.  They went around and looked at homes to buy outright – these houses were abandoned a LONG time ago and honestly I wondered how they were faring structurally in any wind over 10 mph.  But per Chad and Erin – no problem bc Mr. Fix It can do anything.  I think those houses are literally all they can afford outright.  Chad “joked” that maybe they could live with her family for a while; she nixed the idea immediately but you could tell that if she had jumped on the idea, he would’ve been relieved.  I think he’s feeling the financial stress.  I’m sure he made ok money at Nobel Metals and maybe even had health insurance, but I’d be shocked if a small business like that offers anything besides a high deductible plan.  That means that for all 4 yrs they’ve been married – the teary 1st yr when they couldn’t conceive and then each subsequent pregnancy – they’ve likely been paying something like $5-7k out of pocket as a deductible.  Not so easy for a single earner in a non professional job to save 7k every year.

Frankly he should’ve taken out a mortgage when he was at Nobel.  It’d be hard for him to even qualify now – banks look for a solid track record of earnings which he had when he worked a job; now with a business that’s just starting up with pay probably wildly fluctuating as there are likely weeks with lots of works and weeks with minimal work – doubt he’ll get a mortgage easily even if he wants one.

Edited June 29, 2018 by cereality

[BitterApple]

My jaw dropped when Erin made the comment about how she missed having a baby to rock. Good grief, woman! You've got two in diapers and one young enough to still be using a pacifier. You already HAVE babies! If she keeps popping them out at a clip of one every year, they're going to be packed to the rafters in that cottage. 

I'm also curious, if finances are tight and you're saving for a house, why the hell would you add a dog and two goats? I'm sure they probably only do the bare minimum in terms of vet care (if any) but still, it's an additional three creatures to feed and care for. These people make no sense. 

[cereality]

As for Trace – I didn’t get the whole, now I need to figure out another life plan/next steps, since basketball didn’t work out.  Um -- surely you didn’t think that making the Crown basketball team would’ve meant your life path was a direct path to the NBA? But I do feel bad for him bc he seems like he’s taking it hard.  Reality is even at a nothing college, you’ll get guys trying out who’ve been playing on community teams since like age 8 and then middle school and high school varsity.  There’s no way someone who simply likes the game and went to 1-2 basketball camps for a week as a teen – and thus has played at most 40-80 hrs competitively – can ever compete.

Feel bad for him bc homeschooling at home with your mama being the teacher means you pretty much “win” at everything.  Growing up he and his siblings never had the experience of working hard on a science project and still not winning the science fair; getting cut from a team; working hard and having it still not be enough to graduate ranked #1 in your class.  More and more of these opportunities are being taken away anyway as schools move towards participation trophies for everyone and naming 10 people valedictorian so as not to make the person with the 3.9999 feel bad – but still in most school settings, you will have some times where you don’t get what you want.  Trace experienced it for the first time at age 20 and you can tell it’s shaken his confidence.  I think Zach and Nathan experienced it when both their courtships broke up – and Zach has come a LONG way since then; Nathan – not so much.

Didn’t understand Nathan’s criticism when he said – some guys want to be pilots for a job and that’s fine for them, but I fly to spread the gospel and save people (with some amens from Trace).  Uh – why are we picking on commercial pilots?? It’s a good profession.  And sorry Nathan but some 24 yr olds can’t live off of giving a handful of flight lessons per week bc they don’t live with their mommy and daddy; they have mortgages and school loans to pay and have things like 401k.  And last I checked they’ve been spreading the gospel and saving people in the Philippines, Australia etc.  Cut the BS – no way you are flying yourself trans Pacific.  I find Nathan to be obnoxious and nasty with his judgment – be it commercial pilots or how his sister looks in a wedding dress or wears her hair!?

I thought the Zach and Jackson scene was cute.  Looks like there’s 13 yrs between them.  Zach looks at him like a proud dad.  You can tell he was trying to motivate him (i.e. well you’re 16, you have to start deciding what you want to do) while balancing it with – you don’t have to figure it all out today.  Right now it sounds like Jackson wants to go down the construction road.  Honestly since Zach isn’t scared to spend time outside the home, I hope he encourages Jackson to pursue an actual trade school and/or get a job as an apprentice for a real contractor to get legit experience even if that means being around blue haired people, rather than just learning from DIY Chad and then thinking he can join Chad’s business/start his own.  Sub contractors do really well – look at John and Kelton – but they 100% have to know what they’re doing; and once they’ve learned, it’s not hard for them to get a nearly six figure job.

[Sew Sumi]

Sweet baby Jesus, don't get me started on Nathan. He's evolving into a sanctimonious little shit.

[andromeda331]

Erin was ridiculous. She missed holding a newborn? Your kids are one and two. That wasn't that long ago. Chad's doing her no favors by giving into everything she wants.  I too wonder where their getting the money for all this. Two kids, a dog, two goats, and the shots she has to take. None of that can be cheap and Chad left a good paying job.  

So is it Nathan's plan to be a jerk in every episode he's in? If that's your plan to "show" Ashley what she's missing its a failure. You just keep coming off as asshole. You are instead letting everyone know why Ashley would break off a courtship with you. Trying to convince his brother to be pilot even thought he clearly doesn't want to be? Telling him every boy dreams of being a pilot. Ah, no Nathan not everyone dreams of being a pilot. 

I liked Zach talking with his brother he's a good big brother and has more sense then both of his parents combined. I wonder what his brothers think of him or look up to him. He married a girl not from their world. He got a real job. Moved into a house and renovated it.  If only he could talk to Erin and help her get a clue.

[sATL]

20 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

And don't forget Whitney is in real estate, so she can keep her eyes and ears open (snark!!)

Whitney looked different.. good/great/beautiful .. but different.. did she lose weight/ new hair color/ different trim-cut/ new makeup ?

Funny jokes with the 3 brothers on the couch, regarding the driving test ... Jackson, Warden, Isiah.-  ".. well she (the DMV examiner) didn't pull out her pen or she didn't make any marks"... "how would you know - where you watching her the whole time while you were driving?.." .. "that's dangerous Jackson.."..

Agree - I lost the connection of not making the basketball team (can't even think what NCAA division Crown would fall in) to now lets learn about being a pilot. I wonder if he is getting pressure from Gil/Kelly if he can't declare a major/prospective interest, he needs to come out of college and "find something" to do.

[cereality]

13 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Erin was ridiculous. She missed holding a newborn? Your kids are one and two. That wasn't that long ago. Chad's doing her no favors by giving into everything she wants.  I too wonder where their getting the money for all this. Two kids, a dog, two goats, and the shots she has to take. None of that can be cheap and Chad left a good paying job.  

So is it Nathan's plan to be a jerk in every episode he's in? If that's your plan to "show" Ashley what she's missing its a failure. You just keep coming off as asshole. You are instead letting everyone know why Ashley would break off a courtship with you. Trying to convince his brother to be pilot even thought he clearly doesn't want to be? Telling him every boy dreams of being a pilot. Ah, no Nathan not everyone dreams of being a pilot. 

I liked Zach talking with his brother he's a good big brother and has more sense then both of his parents combined. I wonder what his brothers think of him or look up to him. He married a girl not from their world. He got a real job. Moved into a house and renovated it.  If only he could talk to Erin and help her get a clue.

I didn't even think Nathan could be acting obnoxious to "show" Ashley. I figured he's bitter and resentful that a mere female had the audacity to say NO to him -- a MAN. So now he has to show everyone how much of a man he really is even though he lost a girl -- whether it's by telling his sisters (Michael; Tori) that their wedding dress/hair doesn't look good or it's by pushing younger brothers (Trace) to do what he believes they should be doing bc he is a wise MAN and he knows best.

I don't think Zach handled his breakup like that at all. I don't think they were on the air back then from what we've heard from them -- Zach was super sad for a while but also realized that he was so uncomfortable around girls, even sitting close to them or knowing what to talk to them about. And from there he befriended Whit and would just show up at Sonic and chat with her, became friends etc. and probably got some realization that girls are human and when you treat them as your equal and your partner in life, life can be really good/fun; maybe even better than when you lord it over them that you are THE MAN. I bet it was probably right around then that he started realizing that Gil and Kelly didn't have it all figured out. Their whole plan of -- pray and then whichever fundie girl you want is yours bc no fundie woman ever turns down any Godly man bc she NEEDS a headship, clearly didn't work out. So perhaps he started thinking they weren't particularly right about their -- only work for yourself/family businesses and stay away from the godless blue haired heathens in the rest of society -- plan. Bc he picked up a job at the city commissioners office, got to know guys in the sheriff's office and realized he'd rather be out on patrol, went to the police academy. All while doing heathen things like having a TV at home, NOT producing a child every year, allowing his wife to have some work interests of her own, and taking out a mortgage for a nice, totally modern renovated home -- rather than holding out for a cash purchase of a cottage where they can be on top of each other or a falling down shack that'd take 8 yrs to renovate the way his parents did.

Clearly Jackson looks up to him, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other middle kids who I think are close to him like Alyssa and Josie do too. Obviously Alyssa isn't following in his footsteps re baby making, but clearly I have a feeling both she and Josie wanting nice homes and knowing it's possible if a guy has a good job -- sought out guys like John and Kelton; bet neither thinks a mortgage is a particularly Godless financial instrument since it allows you to have a nice home and seems like both seem to think that nothing is wrong with women working outside the home and making money. Even if Zach isn't sitting there telling them all these things are good (he probably isn't) -- I think some siblings are looking at his life and realizing they want to create something similar to what he has -- hot wife who isn't particularly needy or clingy, a fun marriage it seems by the way they banter w each other, good job/career, not having dozens of babies screaming, nice home, disposable income. They may be realizing -- like he did -- that Gil and Kelly aren't necessarily right -- you CAN seek worldly things and not make babies yearly and still be a Godly person. Wouldn't be surprised if a few other middle brothers are watching closely like Trace, Isiah or Warden and forming their own thoughts re life. I don't think he has any influence on the siblings closer in age to him -- Erin, Michael, Lawson or Nathan -- bc by the time he started living his life how he wanted, their views of the world were pretty much formed and then had drunk all the Kool Aid. Though if Michael only ends up having 1-4 kids, then I think her life will look a lot like Zach's -- though in her case I don't think it'll be by choice and she will mourn what she lost (having dozens of kids).

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, cereality said:

I didn't even think Nathan could be acting obnoxious to "show" Ashley. I figured he's bitter and resentful that a mere female had the audacity to say NO to him -- a MAN. So now he has to show everyone how much of a man he really is even though he lost a girl -- whether it's by telling his sisters (Michael; Tori) that their wedding dress/hair doesn't look good or it's by pushing younger brothers (Trace) to do what he believes they should be doing bc he is a wise MAN and he knows best.

I don't think Zach handled his breakup like that at all. I don't think they were on the air back then from what we've heard from them -- Zach was super sad for a while but also realized that he was so uncomfortable around girls, even sitting close to them or knowing what to talk to them about. And from there he befriended Whit and would just show up at Sonic and chat with her, became friends etc. and probably got some realization that girls are human and when you treat them as your equal and your partner in life, life can be really good/fun; maybe even better than when you lord it over them that you are THE MAN. 

You could be right. Bitter and resentful could be right too. I don't think Zach handled his breakup this way either. The show didn't exist then but I think it was on or going to be part of the story of their first show United Bates of America when it fizzled out. Zach credits John David Duggar for his help and support after the courtship ended. It was also what lead to Kelly and Gil changing their courtship model to a point. If you see that picture of Zach and Sarah Reith (sp?) both look really uncomfortable. That may also be what's different between Zach's and Nathan's courtships. We don't know if Zach actually liked or was interested in Sarah or his parents encouraged him towards. Zach pretty much bought into what he's parents was selling until then when he realized he had no idea how to talk to a girl. Nathan definitely was crushing on Ashley, or he wouldn't be as hurt or bitter and resentful. The comments he's made are they because Ashley, a girl turned him down and he can't handle it? Or are they the reasons why Ashley bolted. It could be both too.  So he's trying to prove he's a MAN and the MAN and knows best. Nathan, that's not how your coming off, your coming off like an asshole who flipped out about his sister's hair and ignoring his brothers and father trying to get him to point that out to him or trying to convince someone who is clearly not interested into training for a job he doesn't want.

 

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I bet it was probably right around then that he started realizing that Gil and Kelly didn't have it all figured out. Their whole plan of -- pray and then whichever fundie girl you want is yours bc no fundie woman ever turns down any Godly man bc she NEEDS a headship, clearly didn't work out. So perhaps he started thinking they weren't particularly right about their -- only work for yourself/family businesses and stay away from the godless blue haired heathens in the rest of society -- plan. Bc he picked up a job at the city commissioners office, got to know guys in the sheriff's office and realized he'd rather be out on patrol, went to the police academy. All while doing heathen things like having a TV at home, NOT producing a child every year, allowing his wife to have some work interests of her own, and taking out a mortgage for a nice, totally modern renovated home -- rather than holding out for a cash purchase of a cottage where they can be on top of each other or a falling down shack that'd take 8 yrs to renovate the way his parents did.

 

I wonder if he did then. Although sometimes I do wonder. The comment about his kids being allowed to watch Winnie the Pooh or something seems a bit bitter. I wonder if that was the first time he realized his parents didn't know what they were talking about or the last time. He grew up with his sisters doing all the parenting, Lawson paying for groceries. Then he tried to follow what his parents told him his whole life is the best way to meet and marry. That God chose this woman for him, how could it be wrong? It didn't work and he was hurt. Maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back.  Since marrying Whitney, he went to the police academy, bought house, renovated it, bought a TV, she got a job, and really looks like he and Whitney are making decisions for themselves. Hopefully, it'll continue.

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Clearly Jackson looks up to him, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other middle kids who I think are close to him like Alyssa and Josie do too. Obviously Alyssa isn't following in his footsteps re baby making, but clearly I have a feeling both she and Josie wanting nice homes and knowing it's possible if a guy has a good job -- sought out guys like John and Kelton; bet neither thinks a mortgage is a particularly Godless financial instrument since it allows you to have a nice home and seems like both seem to think that nothing is wrong with women working outside the home and making money. Even if Zach isn't sitting there telling them all these things are good (he probably isn't) -- I think some siblings are looking at his life and realizing they want to create something similar to what he has -- hot wife who isn't particularly needy or clingy, a fun marriage it seems by the way they banter w each other, good job/career, not having dozens of babies screaming, nice home, disposable income. They may be realizing -- like he did -- that Gil and Kelly aren't necessarily right -- you CAN seek worldly things and not make babies yearly and still be a Godly person. Wouldn't be surprised if a few other middle brothers are watching closely like Trace, Isiah or Warden and forming their own thoughts re life. I don't think he has any influence on the siblings closer in age to him -- Erin, Michael, Lawson or Nathan -- bc by the time he started living his life how he wanted, their views of the world were pretty much formed and then had drunk all the Kool Aid. Though if Michael only ends up having 1-4 kids, then I think her life will look a lot like Zach's -- though in her case I don't think it'll be by choice and she will mourn what she lost (having dozens of kids).

 

I wouldn't either. He's worked hard and its paid off. Unlike their parents who never work hard but claim too. Looking at his life I can see why his brothers and sisters would look up to that. He has a nice life. He's not depending on grifting or other jobs that may not pay well to support his family.  

[Kiss my mutt]

Nathan is the kind of guy who will think a girl owes him simply because he’s interested In her and He seems like he could end up very abusive.  He has crazy eyes to me. 

[woodscommaelle]

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Nathan is the kind of guy who will think a girl owes him simply because he’s interested In her and He seems like he could end up very abusive.  He has crazy eyes to me. 

For anyone watching The Bachelorette, this reminds of how the boards feel about Chris (99% sure that's his name). "You owe me, like, 10,000 kisses."

[sATL]

speaking of the duggars - Is Jinger the only one currently pregnant?  I guess with more married Bates they do seem to mulitply faster...

On 6/29/2018 at 9:27 AM, BitterApple said:

Chad's aged 15 years in the last 5, so life seems to be weighing him down quite a bit these days. However this goes back to what I was saying about these two over in the Duggar thread: do they actually ever sit down and have an honest conversation about anything? Yeah, it's great to be romantic and write corny love letters and profess your spouse to be the Best! Thing! Evah! on Instagram, but at the end of the day they're three babies deep in a matchbox house that they don't even own.

From what I've seen, Chad subscribes to the philosophy of "happy wife, happy life," but when you're wife is an immature dingbat who's never lived in the real world, it's time to retrieve your balls from her purse and say "no more."?

[Absolom]

Ratings this week:  220K viewers and a .06 rating.

[SongbirdHollow]

Surprised by all the Nathan snark. I did not see the hair criticism episode. I thought he did a great job with the flying lesson. No matter how Trace freaked out Nathan was cool as a cucumber. I agree he was pushing too hard when Trace was not interested. I'm seeing confidence rather than arrogance. But I've been wrong before. 

[SongbirdHollow]

All good and interesting points, Xrystal. One thing though is that if he wants to be special, wouldn’t he keep the flying to himself?

[BitterApple]

When Michael was trying on wedding dresses, she told the salesgirl she wanted something that made her look thin. Even though she's obviously not fat, her weight apparently was an issue for her. The last thing she needed was someone tagging along making rude comments.

I never really understood this practice of shopping with a crowd anyways. I remember an episode of SYTTD where the bridal party was so jealous their friend was getting married. They trashed every dress she put on even though she looked amazing in all of them and you could just see her confidence sliding down the drain. Who needs that shit?

[TeamNoOne]

On 6/29/2018 at 10:28 AM, IndianPaintbrush said:

Erin's only doing what she was raised to do: have as many babies as possible. If Chad wants to limit the size of their family, he faces a very uphill battle.

One trip to the vasectomy doctor ends the battle. 

[TeamNoOne]

19 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Surprised by all the Nathan snark. I did not see the hair criticism episode. I thought he did a great job with the flying lesson. No matter how Trace freaked out Nathan was cool as a cucumber. I agree he was pushing too hard when Trace was not interested. I'm seeing confidence rather than arrogance. But I've been wrong before. 

I'm also not seeing the all the negativity regarding Nathan. Especially so when it comes to the Ashley breakup, which was at least two years ago. The kid isn't a misogynist, at least not any more than the run of the mill Gothard kid. He's a kid with very little self confidence that masks his self doubt by projecting arrogance. I don't think this has much to do with Ashley, he was like this before and during their courtship. It seems to have gotten a little worse in the last six months or so, which suggests that Ashley doesn't have much to do with it. He's just a poser, pretending that he has all the answers while deep down he knows he doesn't know much.

[Bridget]

Anyone else cheer out loud (or silently) when Kelly said that Zach and Jackson both “can’t get enough books to read” and love to read? There is hope for some of them!

It was also really wonderful to watch a Carlin-free episode. 

[TeamNoOne]

On 7/2/2018 at 5:03 PM, XrystalPond said:

As for this most recent episode, he was not that bad but still nobody I would want to hang with for very long. There are better ways to encourage someone to try something new. For example, he might have asked Trace had he considered going for pilot training and offered to answer any questions he might have had. If I understand it correctly, he only recently got his private license and has yet to get the commercial one. So it's not like he's actually doing these medical missions in the jungles with a plane yet. It might have been more effective for him to suggest going to hear a speaker with experience on the subject or a lunch with someone who has done such work. Filming them flying was good visually, but it came off as though they had to shout to each other.
 

The problem with Nathan is that he thinks he has all the answers despite being 24 or 25. The reality is that he doesn't know how to think and masks that with having absolute opinions on everything. Compare that with Zach, who makes an attempt to try to understand things and think through matters. Knowing what the "right" conclusions are isn't the same as thinking about a subject and reaching the "right" conclusion. I say this to my woke friends all the time, knowing the right answer isn't the same as thinking through a difficult subject and reaching a conclusion. Nathan just can't think, much like 90% of 25 year olds. I think he might be bright enough to recognize it, which just makes him louder and more obnoxious. He's got to hide the fact that he can't think, he who speaks loudest wins. It goes back to the deep insecurity he has. He's terrified someone will figure out he doesn't know much or doesn't have all the right answers.

[Squirrely]

You could just see the annoyance in some of the siblings' expressions when Lawson and Nathan crashed the couples' dinner. Some laughed, but the rest were not amused at all. They were probably ecstatic to have some family time with 2/3 of the attention whores not in attendance. 

What I think stands out most to me is that most young men at their ages wouldn't give 2 shits what the rest of the family is doing because they would have their own lives with their own friends. It's sweet how much the family likes one another, but it's also beyond unhealthy! I'm sure it was all staged for the show, but you know they were more than willing to look like desperate morons. A wig with curlers at a somewhat decent restaurant?? I had painful second-hand embarrassment going on seeing that. 

And ditto that at the seafood restaurant. I am not a big seafood fan. I like crab legs and that's about it. But I have tried many, many dishes and varieties. If I don't care for it, I don't find the need to declare it loudly and insult the establishment. My parents raised me better than that. I have no tolerance for such poor manners. 

I hate that Josie is already engaged. Yeah, it gets her out of the compound with a guy who's decent by fundie standards. But a year from now we're going to know the sex of her first baby. And she's still a baby. :( 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Squirrely
adding thoughts

[BitterApple]

I don't understand the mad rush to have babies either. These girls are so young, it's not like they're battling ticking clocks. Zach and Whit seem to be the only couple not participating in the Breeding Olympics. Kaci Lynn just turned two, so even if Whit got pregnant now, that would be a nearly three year gap between kids, which is pretty normal. Erin and Alyssa are just going to continue on their current pattern of getting pregnant every year and acting surprised when it happens. Tori will likely follow suit. I hope Josie holds off, but it's pretty much impossible if she doesn't use some form of birth control. 

[sATL]

On 7/2/2018 at 5:03 PM, XrystalPond said:

In addition to Gill and Kelly not allowing certain things, it appears that they truly seemed to live at the poverty line simply to follow the IBLP ideas that you don't work for others who might believe differently than you.

??? what exactly is/was the draw to IBLP church in the first place ? 

 I'm all for self-entrepreneurship/ employment - but this a really hard line to base your work-career-life on.

And then if you do have your own business/or happen to work for someone who meets the criteria - are you going to exclude doing business with certain customers because they have a different belief than you?

Edited July 6, 2018 by sATL

[cereality]

I understand why fundies go into ministry obviously (or music – bc they’ll play music in their church they hope to work at/found) and construction.  I mean construction/skilled trades/landscaping make sense bc you can build yourself a house, you can fix your fundie friends’ plumbing or put trees in their yard or whatever and sometimes you can even give these services away for free like by building a church because . . . ministry . . . . Though I have a hard time believing that when Gil gets a new contract for a tree job, he asks the person/company hiring him whether they’ve accepted Jesus??! I know they can say they only work for people who believe the same things they do, but reality is they don’t actually know; chances are most of their jobs are for Christians just bc they live in the Bible belt but how do they really know if someone is a closeted Buddhist that converted some years ago?

But what exactly is the demand for fundie pilots? I know Nathan always says he’s flying to spread the gospel, but really?? Those tiny twin engine planes aren’t flying you anyplace where there are tons of Catholics or Muslims or Buddhists or whomever to be converted. They are flying you as far as Louisiana or Arkansas – guess what – there are fundies in those places already spreading the gospel.  As far as we can tell, JD Duggar basically uses his pilots license to ferry around whatever sister is courting long distance and then to whatever rural town it is where they all buy their wedding dresses; now he’s ferrying himself around to visit his gf.  Yet in that family – there’s JD and now Jeremiah piloting/learning to pilot.  And in one of those irritating FB lives, Lawson said that in the Bates fam, Nathan flies and Trace, Law, Katie, Jackson, Warden, Isiah are all taking lessons.  And Nathan says that he’s working at some school in Texas in teach other fundie young men to fly!? Uh – at this rate, why not put your skills to actual use and join the Air Force or get a job with a commercial airline/charter airline? Though as I say this, I kind of wonder if the business plan for many of these fundies is to pool resources and start a charter airline one day??

[Absolom]

44 minutes ago, cereality said:

at this rate, why not put your skills to actual use and join the Air Force or get a job with a commercial airline/charter airline?

They aren't qualified for either by their current licenses and certifications.  Nathan might be able to get qualified for a small charter operation.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Absolom

[cereality]

43 minutes ago, Absolom said:

They aren't qualified for either by their current licenses and certifications.  Nathan might be able to get qualified for a small charter operation.

Right now of course not. But if your make believe fundie flight school (i.e. lessons with another fundie) makes you realize an acumen for flying, are you absolutely unable to go to a real flight school and/or get real certifications that the Air Force or American Airlines or some charter operation could view as real?? I mean how do you expect to make a living flying other fundies to spread the gospel?

[BitterApple]

I'm just mind boggled that Gil and Kelly are dishing out money for flight lessons. This was a family that was living in poverty until the Duggars came along and gifted them a new house. You'd think they'd be extra frugal with their cash, especially considering their ratings aren't all that great.

[Sew Sumi]

If Nathan really is in TX for half the year, I'd bet the farm that he's working with ALERT. I'd also wager that any lessons Nathan gives to family at ALERT are comped. I do wonder who owns that little two-seater used for Trace's "lesson."

Edited July 8, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, cereality said:

are you absolutely unable to go to a real flight school and/or get real certifications that the Air Force or American Airlines or some charter operation could view as real??

It isn't impossible, but the Air Force trains their own and that requires joining the AF as an officer (college graduate) AND qualifying for and completing the training.  That's a huge mountain for a Bates.  An airline is almost that huge a mountain, but a bit more attainable.  That's why I said Nathan might make it to a charter operation.  That's the lowest of the three you mentioned.  Since he has zero college as far as I remember and has only gone to local or fundie training, he's doing well to have gotten his instructor certification.  It is still only small aircraft. 

[LisaWl7TR]

On 6/15/2018 at 1:57 PM, cereality said:

I'm not a fan of Tori or Carlin, but I think the difference is Carlin -- while LOUD and obnoxious, is with a guy who is like that too. I don't think Evan has to change much in order to be able to deal with her bc he may have the same tendencies, so they'll go forth obnoxiously together. Bobby and Tori OTOH are different from each other. She is annoying and whiny along with being obnoxious. He OTOH seems right now to be a happy go lucky, care free kind of guy who wants an easy, nice life with a wife and kids. This is manifesting/will manifest as doing whatever he can to make his annoying wife happy -- and nothing ever will bc whatever he does, she'll want and expect more. I can see how the next 40-60 yrs of his life look. But he's a nice guy and has been raised to believe you can never divorce, so he'll do it even if it means sacrificing his own happiness. That may be why his parents don't seem too thrilled with the marriage, they know it means their son the nice guy will spend his life catering to her, while she doesn't worry about whether he's happy or not.

I think it's ridiculous how much emphasis these families put on married vs. NOT. A dinner just for married couples -- uh ok?! But I also think it's desperate that Lawson and Nathan had to crash. We get it, you're not married, you're not wanted here -- so have some self respect and don't show up begging for steak. Somehow I thought they'd come, make an entrance, say hi and leave; but later on you can see them sitting at the edges of the camera shot eating their steak. Despite the premise of the dinner being ridiculous, I thought the stories were sweet -- Zach saying he told Alyssa on day 1 that he'd marry Whit but was telling dad she was just a friend and Gil was like -- I'm not fool; or John not being able to utter out his name when he saw Alyssa. Chad's was dumb but then he and Erin are kind dumb -- that he liked her fake grin from across the room. Brandon tries real hard on the romance but just isn't comfortable with it at least not publicly -- saying that when he say Michael he wondered who was holding on the babies and then thought her husband will be a blessed guy -- yeah I don't believe that even with his fundie speak; I think it was more his sisters saying -- look at that girl, she's pretty, she loves babies, she's fundie, she's make a great wife for you and him slowly agreeing.

I think Kelton and Bobby together bring something into the family -- they've known each other before becoming brothers in law and have actually known each other since 18 since they were college roommates. So I thought it was funny that Kelton was able to tell how Bobby kept playing a video of Tori over and over again with her singing in her southern drawl and then telling Kelton OMG I'm in love.

At I love you day -- who was the handsome young man hanging out with them? Someone for Katie? He's a generic thin looking guy -- at first I thought it was Lawson or Evan -- but then he was shown standing behind Gil when they were watching the old people come in and you can see Lawson in the same camera shot; then he's shown sitting next to Lawson while Evan is showing off his old person costume. I think it's weird that they often have young guys hanging with them as "friends" and then later that friend is shown to be someone's husband; I feel like there was a time where Trace always had 1-2 basketball buddies with him and I was thinking then too -- guys for Katie??

Also thought it was interesting that when Trace was "complaining" that he didn't get to crash the couples dinner, Law and Nathan both said -- find yourself a girl at college, it's easy for you. Trace replied -- it's not that easy; sounds to me like everyone assumes Trace will be the next boy wedding.

I haven't caught up with reading so apologies if this has been mentioned- I noticed on Instagram Katie is friends with a guy attending PCC. He is slim and seems to like all her posts. It could be nothing, though. 

[woodscommaelle]

15 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

If Nathan really is in TX for half the year, I'd bet the farm that he's working with ALERT. I'd also wager that any lessons Nathan gives to family at ALERT are comped. I do wonder who owns that little two-seater used for Trace's "lesson."

In a million years you couldn't get me to go up in that plane. No way. No how.

[SongbirdHollow]

I went to a resort in Costa Rica that was only accessible by plane or boat. We took the plane and I thought that pilot had a dream job. Flying people back and forth over gorgeous countryside. He admitted he loved his job! I think the plane was 5 seater. 

The people who arrived by boat that day were hours late because the river was so low they had to wade. I think I made the right choice. 

[curbcrusher]

Reading this and can't help but reply.

1) Private pilots can NOT accept any compensation for flying. A private pilot certificate in the US is just that. Even those that fly paitients to medical visits with Angel's Flight or some of the pet rescue trips can not accept money for their time, gas or equipment. The FAA is very particular about what constitutes an "airline" and if you take money for moving people or cargo from one place to another, they pretty much will apply airline rules to you.

2) The plane used in the episode had a tail number that showed it was owned by Duggar Aviation according to the FAA Registry lookup. I don't remember the tail number, but I looked it up during the episode.

3) Nathan is a Flight Instructor. This is a step that many pilots do on their way to getting an Airline Transport Pilot rating. Thats because the ATP requires a lot of hours, and hours are expensive (An hour in the plane shown in the episode would cost $60 - $120 depending on where you were in the country and the flight school). Just about everyone that doesn't use the military seems to use the Flight Instructor path to rack up hours.

4) About a decade ago I read a great story about missionary pilots in one of the aviation magazines. The article talked about pilots supporting various missionary groups in Central America and Africa.  It sounded like an adventurous job and a lot of fun if you like flying at it's rawest level, not a lot of ATC, improved runways or regulation. The closest in the US is probably an Alaskan bush pilot.

5) Nathan may be a fundie and a pilot, the wings were earned. There's no fundy flight school that can give you a Private Pilots license in the US just because you both use "trespasses" instead of "debtors" in the Lord's Prayer.

[Sew Sumi]

So, that WAS a Duggar plane. I couldn't quite catch the tail number but have access to four planes' ID #s (they made the 10-seat Mitsubishi private after they got busted taking Smuggar to an RU meeting). I'm curious which plane this was. They store a couple of their planes down at ALERT Field, and I can tell when a flight plan consists of a lesson. It doesn't happen as often as one might think, but now we know the Duggars allow Nathan to use one of the rinky dink planes on occasion.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[woodscommaelle]

"Wow! Just wow. You are good, Brandon."

What a funny thing to hear from such a young kid. She's just adorable. 

Michael needs a job teaching or working at the zoo. What does she do all day?

[flyingdi]

Shut up, Nathan!  Learn to sew your dang self!

Brandon is the most soft spoken man I've ever heard.  Not necessarily a bad thing, just putting it out there.

So every time Michael comes for a visit, there is work piled up for her?  Are any of the others, besides Chad, this special?  Seriously how would this family survive without Michael and Chad?

[Sew Sumi]

Yup, Nathan again opened his mouth and inserted his misogynistic foot.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[flyingdi]

Pretty soon, my whole recap of every episode will be:

"Shut up, Nathan!  Nobody cares!"

"Boy, Jud and Jeb sure are cute!"

[riverblue22]

Just now, flyingdi said:

Pretty soon, my whole recap of every episode will be:

"Shut up, Nathan!  Nobody cares!"

"Boy, Jud and Jeb sure are cute!"

Well, I've found it was easy to quit the Bates.  I'm even over Jud and Jeb, cute as they are.

[Bridget]

14 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yup, Nathan again opened his mouth and inserted his misogynistic foot.

 

1. Another Carlin-free episode. Whoo hoo!

2. Someone posted a few episodes ago that Whitney looked different, but they couldn’t identify what it was about her. I think I figured it out.

During their TH, Whitney and Zach weren’t clutching each other or holding hands as if they were Rose and Jack on the Titanic, clinging to one another for dear life. I knew I liked them for a reason. 

3. I admit that I wasn’t originally on the “Nathan is a dick” train. I thought he was an attention whore who fancied himself charming (even though he never was) and was playing a role he thought viewers wanted to see.

However, once he alluded to having his youngest sisters, one of whom is only 8 years old, begin to take care of the mending of clothing at the house, that was it.

What a misogynistic asshole.

He’s OK with a sweatshop using child labor in the damn house as long as the holes in his freakin’ church pants are fixed? Oh. Hell. No.

Hey Nathan: I can’t thread a needle to save my life, so I take my clothes that need to be mended to this place called a DRY CLEANER. For a few extra bucks, THEY fix your clothes FOR YOU. You PAY for it with money you earn from a JOB. 

4. It broke my heart to watch Michaella with the girls because we know how badly she wants kiddos of her own. I swear I saw her eyes well up during a TH. I do hope if they end up having kids (adoption, fostering, biological), she realizes how much easier it is to parent and be present for 3 kids instead of 30. (I know, I know) ?

5. Callie is everything.

In addition to her manners, she didn’t even freak out when the ant eater dropped its food on her hair. She was so calm about it. I don’t even think adults would handle it as well as she did! Making Alyssa a mug at the pottery place makes me think that they must really have a special bond, despite the age difference. Let’s face it though: Callie is basically a grown woman in a kid’s body. She will be a great PTVer one day. They probably talk about how great life is away from the house is! I’d love to eavesdrop on their chats! 

6. Lawson now has merchandise? 

Someone who truly loves him owes it to him to be honest and tell him how much he sucks before he wastes even more money on his never-going-to-happen music career.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Bridget
Forgot to snark on Lawson!

[zenme]

Those girls are darling, and they seem to have manners. They thanked Michaela for showing them how to sew. There's a world of difference between Dugg kids and Bates kids. I've never heard the Dugg kids utter a thank you, or act any way other than downright feral.

Edited July 13, 2018 by zenme

[andromeda331]

Another shut up Nathan moment. Mend your own pants.  

Judson and Jed were so cute. When one said he wanted to go eat and then wanted to stop working I laughed really hard. Hey, Gil, your sons are just following the work ethic they learned from you. Do nothing and make someone else do it.

I rolled my eyes really hard when Gil said that all the daughters and teachers were out of the house. Wow, that must have been really hard Gil. Don't worry I'm sure you shoved them onto someone else still.

That remark and Nathan's they really don't know how they sound to people outside the cult right? Nathan no one outside the cult finds it fun or cute your going to make your 12, 11, or 8 year old sister mend your pants. It makes you look like an asshole. As does flipping out about your sister's hair and other comments. Gil, this is going to shock you but outside the cult parents raise their own kids. I know its shocking. Their are fathers who raise their kids all on their own. They don't need to make nor would it ever occur to them to make their daughters raise their kids and do everything.

Callie, Ellie and Addie were really cute too.

[flyingdi]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Another shut up Nathan moment. Mend your own pants.  

Judson and Jed were so cute. When one said he wanted to go eat and then wanted to stop working I laughed really hard. Hey, Gil, your sons are just following the work ethic they learned from you. Do nothing and make someone else do it.

I rolled my eyes really hard when Gil said that all the daughters and teachers were out of the house. Wow, that must have been really hard Gil. Don't worry I'm sure you shoved them onto someone else still.

That remark and Nathan's they really don't know how they sound to people outside the cult right? Nathan no one outside the cult finds it fun or cute your going to make your 12, 11, or 8 year old sister mend your pants. It makes you look like an asshole. As does flipping out about your sister's hair and other comments. Gil, this is going to shock you but outside the cult parents raise their own kids. I know its shocking. Their are fathers who raise their kids all on their own. They don't need to make nor would it ever occur to them to make their daughters raise their kids and do everything.

Callie, Ellie and Addie were really cute too.

You'd think the extremely image conscious members of the family,  Kelly, Lawson, Erin, would tell Nathan to stifle it.  Hey, Nathan, you're coming off a little bad(bitter?) lately!  Tone it down, son!