S11.E01: My Struggle III

[Taryn74]

41 minutes ago, Rushmoras said:

Well, I can't say that I did not like the episode per se, but it did kind of left me confused. So... Season 10 the last two episodes was... what?

  Hide contents

Scully having a brain aneurysm or something and just viewing the future or am I missing something here?

My Struggle II (the final episode of S10) was all a premonition.  It began when the camera focused in on Scully's eye (in the beginning scene, when she's in the office and the phone rings) and ended in the beginning scene of My Struggle III.

 

Bringing over part of a speculative post I made in the MSII thread, because it looks like I was right!  Awesome.

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There were immense leaps and bounds in logic being made by Scully, as has been observed in almost every post about this episode.  Scully acting in this way makes no sense if we were watching things actually happen, but makes a ton of sense if these things were coming to her in a premonition or dreamlike state, and that is what we were actually seeing.  (It makes even more sense if this info was being "given" to her by someone who maybe doesn't understand all the science in between - like maybe William *cough* - and what we're seeing are the basic points she needs to pick up on.)

I think it's being pretty clearly established that Scully and William have a psychic connection, and he is "sending" her these visions of what can and will happen if she and Mulder don't prevent it.

Someone asked upthread but I can't find it now, about Jeffrey knowing where William was, and having played a part in where he was placed when Scully placed him up for adoption.  This is new information to us.  On the one hand, I was a bit shocked but on the other hand, it makes perfect sense with the events in William.  I'm intrigued.

[Sandman]

53 minutes ago, ganesh said:

He backed away from that in S7 though. 

Sure -- but one could be forgiven for thinking that "My Struggle III" itself appears to be something of a backing away from that S7 backing away. (I can't keep up ...)

[atlantaloves]

Man, I had to turn this off after giving it about 30 minutes.  I just didn't care, and I WAS a big X Files fan. And, can I just say that Gillian has so much botox, well it really hurts my fabulous and naturally unwrinkled eyeballs. ?  Blaughhhhhhhh. 

[pagooey]

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

Not to mention that getting into a car and driving across town when concussed, subject to seizures and barely holding on to consciousness seems much more like a Mulder move than something Scully would do.

Just pulling this out because it made me laugh out loud. Good old young Mulder, jumping onto moving trains, getting holes drilled in his skull FOR THE TRUTH, and sticking his fingers in everything. The current "weariness" he seems to be projecting kind of makes sense in this context! Anyway I'd still climb 55-57-y-o DD like a ladder, given the opportunity. I've aged 25 years too!

 

4 hours ago, domina89 said:

There again, though, I think this illustrates how much of a delusional narcissist CSM truly is.  I don't think we are meant to take what he narrates as absolute truth- just the truth in his own mind.   Remember in "Amor Fati" when CSM believed he was going to be the savior of mankind by removing genetic material from Mulder and placing it in himself?  He has delusions of grandeur- he always has.  Now I do believe he has been a part of many conspiracies over the years, but most of the things he imagines he pulls the puppet strings on, I question.

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

CC has always been about as reliable a narrator as CSM

I put these two quotes together because, last night, something FINALLY clicked for me: CC IS THE CSM. CC sees himself as the puppet master of this world he's created...but he let the lightning out of the bottle and it got fully away from him in about 1997. Think about the "Musings of a CSM" episode. We're supposed to believe that CSM personally assassinated both Martin Luther King and JFK and controls the outcome of every Super Bowl...but he'd give all his earthly power up for a shot at being a writer. And he's TERRIBLE at it:  a BAD writer, pecking out lurid spy bullshit in purple prose in his lonely apartment. He gets a nibble from some bloviating Amazeballs Tales publisher and drafts his resignation from the global conspiracy! And then, what? He fanboys up to the newsstand for his story and discovers, horrors, that it's been edited. Someone had the gall to prune his literary genius, and so he's all butthurt and, welp, guess it's back to destroying the world. 

So I'm taking this entire episode as an extended metaphor that probably goes deeper than CC himself realizes. Oh, yeah, I faked the moon landing too! Me, CSM! All me! My monologues are beautiful, and the biggest. Here, have some more! Also I'm the father of Scully's baby, yeah, that's the ticket! 

It's all bullshit. This dude couldn't plan his way to the lunch truck without help. And now we've gotten it handily out of the way. 

That said, Chris, since you can't read a room: #timesup, my friend. In particular your time yanking Scully around on the Madonna/whore spectrum is up, up, up, over, done, finito, get lost, goodbye. 

-----------------------

Okay, other thoughts:

• Mulder's apparent midlife crisis has certainly gotten him a nice set of wheels. I guess he's recovered from sulking and bearding out in his home office?
• So CSM doesn't need a trach port to smoke through any more? Is most of his face still detachable? Is Jeffrey's? Never mind, who cares, let's drive that 'Stang some more!
• Monica, are you evil or not, pick a lane.
• Speaking of lanes, how about that Ford Mustang TM that Mulder's driving? 
• Whh...hy did Mulder have to slit that bad guy's throat? with a handy scalpel that was...there, for some reason? HE IS ARMED, after all. 
• Why did they give Scully a lab coat to wear over her scrubs? In case she regained consciousness and had to run off to do some medical doctoring? 
• This, from GA's Instagram, made me howl last night. Even if she's Over It, she's making her own fun, and that's a joy to see. I wish social media had existed back in the day. https://www.instagram.com/p/BdgoO0MAixb/?taken-by=gilliana

I can't help myself. I love Mulder and Scully (not you, Chris, shoo). I will take whatever I can get, and I will root for their happiness always. 

[Sandman]

5 minutes ago, pagooey said:

Good old young Mulder, jumping onto moving trains, getting holes drilled in his skull FOR THE TRUTH, and sticking his fingers in everything. The current "weariness" he seems to be projecting kind of makes sense in this context!

Right?!

6 minutes ago, pagooey said:

So I'm taking this entire episode as an extended metaphor that probably goes deeper than CC himself realizes. Oh, yeah, I faked the moon landing too! Me, CSM! All me! My monologues are beautiful, and the biggest. Here, have some more! Also I'm the father of Scully's baby, yeah, that's the ticket! 

I mentioned to a colleague today that I'm starting to think the CSM is actually CC's mostly truly autobiographical creation.

[ganesh]

58 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Sure -- but one could be forgiven for thinking that "My Struggle III" itself appears to be something of a backing away from that S7 backing away. (I can't keep up ...)

Yes, it underscored the inconsistencies that have plagued the show since the second season. 

8 minutes ago, pagooey said:

We're supposed to believe that CSM personally assassinated both Martin Luther King and JFK and controls the outcome of every Super Bowl...but he'd give all his earthly power up for a shot at being a writer.

To be fair, he only said the Bills would never win a superbowl as long as he was alive. Ironically, the Bills are back in the playoffs irl for the first time since the original run of the show. 

[chitowngirl]

15 hours ago, Ghost of TWOP Past said:

Blah blah, fishcakes. Let's just get to the monsters of the week, please. 

Exactly. My favorite episodes have always been the stand alones.

[tennisgurl]

I think this episode is probably the strongest example of what I have said about The X Files for years now...that this show is SO MUCH better at writing stand alone episodes than this stupid, boring, convoluted alien conspiracy mess. Its been clear for quite awhile now that CC has no clue where its going, and that he never has. If he was a decent creator, he would just admit it and try something else for a longer arc, or focus on smaller stories or stand alones, but NOPE, he just doubles down on this inane alien conspiracy theory, which is back yet again to bore us all into a comma at best, and actively insult us at worst. 

Speaking of CC, its now clear that CSM isn't only the Big Bad of the franchise, but a self insert character for CC. "Yes, I personally faked the moon landing! And I didn't even need to call in that Kubric bum! And assassinated JFK! And MLK Jr! And I rule the world! ME! And I am actually the father of Scully and Mulders kid! YES Its me, Chris OH SORRY I mean Cancer Man". Its ridiculous, and now its officially gross. I mean, he impregnated Scully? Through science? So now its not rape? CC has always been a...off duck, but now he has officially lost his damn mind. Why is this a thing? Its a horrible idea, in a whole sea of bad ideas. 

No wonder Gillian Anderson wants out if this is all she gets now. Scully is reduced to a helpless victim who lays in a hospital bed while the men folk fret over her (even CSM, who cares about her so much because...shes a helpless woman?) and the one time she actually does something, she is instantly stopped by getting her car smashed into. Its like the writers were saying "oh you silly little woman, trying to have some agency in this story. Get back to bed and let the big strong men protect you". Meanwhile, Mulder gets to play action hero smashing cars and getting into chases and slitting guys throats to save Scully. Oh, and the retconed rape baby, of course. How many times can creeps forcibly impregnate one person?!?! Why is this the only arc they think a woman can handlel? 

What I am super confused about is that Mulder didn't immediately believe Scullys visions. Since when does Mulder NOT buy into every single fruit loop weird thing in the entire world? This guy would travel to the remotest jungle in the remotest part of the remotest country because he heard a rumor that there was a tree that grew toast that had the faces of aliens on them, why the doubt now? Also, this show has always had voice overs, but usually just to wrap things up, not to endlessly ramble on about nothing for an entire episode. 

Whatever. Shut up and get to the monsters of the week now. 

[sharifa70]

I saw a bunch of wtf with CSM and Agent Monica Freaking Reyes (I hate hate hate her), failed to be surprised at the “shocking” reveal because of course this show would do that to us (JHC will someone just chop up CSM and burn the bits so he’ll stay dead already? I feel like I’m watching Days of Our Lives), and rolled my eyes at yet another Scully In The Hospital drama. 

But mostly the episode felt like a g—d—-ed 20-minute Ford Mustang commercial. I swear, I would have hurled a shoe through my tv if they had given me one more effing shot of Mulder’s dashboard and/or fenders. I might be officially out.

[shrewd.buddha]

I'm not sure if this means anything .. or if I saw it incorrectly .. but at the beginning of the episode, when the signature "I WANT TO BELIEVE" phrase was shown, it seemed to morph into "I WANT TO   LIE   ".
(sort of clever, since 'lie' is contained in 'believe' ).

Anyone else notice this?

[Italian Ice]

1 minute ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I'm not sure if this means anything .. or if I saw it incorrectly .. but at the beginning of the episode, when the signature "I WANT TO BELIEVE" phrase was shown, it seemed to morph into "I WANT TO   LIE   ".
(sort of clever, since 'lie' is contained in 'believe' ).

Anyone else notice this?

Yup. It makes me think that the whole William revelation is a lie as well.

 

The other thing I noticed was that Mulder at least seems to be back in love with Scully. Like, a lot. He referred to her in a voiceover as "the person I care about more than anything in the world" and then in very last scene, in a voiceover, referred to (I think) Scully and William as the "drum beats in my heart." 

[ganesh]

50 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

If he was a decent creator, he would just admit it and try something else for a longer arc, or focus on smaller stories or stand alones, but NOPE, he just doubles down on this inane alien conspiracy theory, which is back yet again to bore us all into a comma at best, and actively insult us at worst. 

This is kind of what I meant by he's still making a 90s tv show. Someone really should have got in his face to end the alien conspiracies with the reboot. Or, make Scully's visions a framing device and have them finally end all of it for good. 

I know you can't just bring the show back and completely ignore the aliens outright, but you have to ask yourself. What does the X Files look like in 2017, 2018? What about the show resonates now? (Which is really something you ask of all reboots; though this isn't technically a reboot). 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Eh, with all its flaws, I've never been one to say, "let's just stick with the MOTWs!"  I like both the mytharc stuff and the monsters of the week.  

[Taryn74]

For all of the problems with MSIII, and yes they are many, this is the first time in a long time I've been truly excited over the X-Files.  Nothing in S10 did that for me, so the fact that the first (and hopefully, worst) episode of S11 has done that for me?  Priceless.  I'm more than willing to wait and see what CC has up his sleeve for our Dynamic Duo.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, pagooey said:

So CSM doesn't need a trach port to smoke through any more? Is most of his face still detachable?

I meant to comment on this earlier and forgot. 

I actually have a theory about this, which ties into my belief that William is giving Scully the visions/premonitions through a psychic link, and also my belief that CSM is a supersoldier.  I believe William "told" her CSM is alive but bless her heart, Scully's rational mind just couldn't accept that without supplying some sort of explanation how.  Thus, in her mind, CSM is alive but only with extensive physical damage.  In reality, his enhanced body (ew!) healed itself back to normal after being blown up in S9.

[Morrigan2575]

23 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

I meant to comment on this earlier and forgot. 

I actually have a theory about this, which ties into my belief that William is giving Scully the visions/premonitions through a psychic link, and also my belief that CSM is a supersoldier.  I believe William "told" her CSM is alive but bless her heart, Scully's rational mind just couldn't accept that without supplying some sort of explanation how.  Thus, in her mind, CSM is alive but only with extensive physical damage.  In reality, his enhanced body (ew!) healed itself back to normal after being blown up in S9.

Very interesting theory. I look forward to seeing how this all plays out.

[domina89]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I know you can't just bring the show back and completely ignore the aliens outright, but you have to ask yourself. What does the X Files look like in 2017, 2018? What about the show resonates now? (Which is really something you ask of all reboots; though this isn't technically a reboot). 

The problem with any reboot or revival, especially one years later, is that if you stick to the formula that worked in the past, critics will say the showrunners have no new ideas and the show is stale or just retread, but if the showrunners change it up to be more "modern" and similar to other shows at that time, the fans complain and say it isn't the show they knew and loved.  It is kind of a no-win situation, really.  I think in this case, the storylines could follow more updated topics (no medical rape, please), but the pacing, the lighting, the music, and the overall mood of the show that makes it The X-Files, could remain the same as 20 years ago.  

[baileythedog]

14 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

I meant to comment on this earlier and forgot. 

I actually have a theory about this, which ties into my belief that William is giving Scully the visions/premonitions through a psychic link, and also my belief that CSM is a supersoldier.  I believe William "told" her CSM is alive but bless her heart, Scully's rational mind just couldn't accept that without supplying some sort of explanation how.  Thus, in her mind, CSM is alive but only with extensive physical damage.  In reality, his enhanced body (ew!) healed itself back to normal after being blown up in S9.

Yes, I think this is right. I think because this is all transmissions from William explains much of the just plain weirdness of MSII including but not limited to: 1.) The weird Phantom of the Opera type mask CSM was wearing 2.) Scully stopping to keep people from rioting during her race to deliver the IV to Mulder 3.) Why Scully keeps referring to "Agent Mulder" to O'Malley 4.) How fast the virus / reaction was occurring, including Tad O'Malley drenched in sweat on "Mind Quad" or whatever that Youtube channel was . 5.) . Mulder's new found Ninja fighting skills. 

What it wouldn't explain: Einstein's overall level of irritation. 

Frankly, I would have thought that the William connection also explained Monica's presence in the transmission, but I guess she's really involved with or without baby William's whale song delivery. 

[Italian Ice]

29 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

I meant to comment on this earlier and forgot. 

I actually have a theory about this, which ties into my belief that William is giving Scully the visions/premonitions through a psychic link, and also my belief that CSM is a supersoldier.  I believe William "told" her CSM is alive but bless her heart, Scully's rational mind just couldn't accept that without supplying some sort of explanation how.  Thus, in her mind, CSM is alive but only with extensive physical damage.  In reality, his enhanced body (ew!) healed itself back to normal after being blown up in S9.

I have also thought for a long time that CSM is a supersoldier as well. Nothing else makes sense, and if he IS a supersoldier, then that answers the question as to how William could be both Scully and (ewwww) CSM's child if they were both human. CSM is an alien. Of course, if William is Scully and Mulder's child, then Dana having alien DNA could explain William's super powers too, I think. I'm so excited to see how it all plays out.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Italian Ice

[pagooey]

I love all the theories! And I'm sure we're thinking about it much harder than Chris Carter ever has, but hey, hope springs eternal. ;)

Quote

To be fair, he only said the Bills would never win a superbowl as long as he was alive. Ironically, the Bills are back in the playoffs irl for the first time since the original run of the show. 

Thinking more about this, ganesh...what if it's like the Cubs' World Series win as prophesied in Back to the Future II, where they got SO CLOSE but were off by a year? If the Bills go all the way, and then CSM finally croaks during spring sweeps, I will be a very tickled 'phile indeed. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by pagooey

[Italian Ice]

I found this on Tumblr, but it's a slowed down gif of the very last scene of the episode. Is this William mouthing "Mom, mom"? Sure looks like it:

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, domina89 said:

The problem with any reboot or revival, especially one years later, is that if you stick to the formula that worked in the past, critics will say the showrunners have no new ideas and the show is stale or just retread, but if the showrunners change it up to be more "modern" and similar to other shows at that time, the fans complain and say it isn't the show they knew and loved.  It is kind of a no-win situation, really.  I think in this case, the storylines could follow more updated topics (no medical rape, please), but the pacing, the lighting, the music, and the overall mood of the show that makes it The X-Files, could remain the same as 20 years ago.  

That's too easy. Asking how you can be relevant for contemporary viewers is a realistic expectation. We're not talking about taking away the moodiness or creepiness that made the show popular. And, I would go so far as to say, what we know as 'indelible' X Files is Tooms, Home, the guy setting things on fire, the vampire episode, Clyde Bruckman. Not much really with the aliens. 

If TPTBs are saying they're in a no-win situation, then I'd suggest they shouldn't reboot the show. 

[Helena Dax]

I've always shipped Mulder/Scully like crazy, but I've never thought Mulder was William's biological dad and I was totally okay with that. If CC doesn't want M/S as an endgame, okay too, it's his story. However, the idea of CSM being William's biological dad is so revolting and upsetting... And CC's words about it are even worse, This isn't rape? I'm sure he'd think very differently if that happened to him!  I feel very angry right now and believe me, this time it has nothing to do with shipping. I'm just sick and tired of sexist, narcissistic and mediocre showrunners. 

Mulder and Scully are still beautiful together and they'll always be. Everything else was a complete mess. I didn't know GA wanted out, but it makes perfect sense. I would too, if I were her. She's too good for this shit.

[baileythedog]

25 minutes ago, ganesh said:

 

If TPTBs are saying they're in a no-win situation, then I'd suggest they shouldn't reboot the show. 

To be fair, I don't think TPTB are saying that at all. 

[ganesh]

55 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

I'm just sick and tired of sexist, narcissistic and mediocre showrunners. 

I'm not a shipper, but the whole debate was burned out of me so I honestly don't care anymore, but I was like, "you've got to be kidding me". Talk about tone deaf. If this is what makes GA say she's done for good, then I don't blame her one bit. 

[kokapetl]

8 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Man, I had to turn this off after giving it about 30 minutes.  I just didn't care, and I WAS a big X Files fan. And, can I just say that Gillian has so much botox, well it really hurts my fabulous and naturally unwrinkled eyeballs. ?  Blaughhhhhhhh. 

I thought she looked pretty natural compared to last season. 

[jhlipton]

On 1/3/2018 at 7:39 PM, Sandman said:

Go fuck yourself, Chris Carter.

with science a LARGE turkey baster.

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

Quote

[Scully t]ries to warn Mulder about the real and true things actually happening, only for him to spend the ENTIRE episode (basically every time they spoke) dismissing her, or telling her she's sick and delusional, or telling her to go back to bed, or getting mad at her for taking action without him, even though he's not willing to listen to her or help her take action WITH him.

To be fair to this episode, he's ALWAYS done those things. 

Quote

Gets violently attacked, strangled, fights for her life, only for Mulder to show up in the nick of time and heroically save her from certain death. 

I really wanted her to lay that guy out and say something like, "Oh, please. MUCH scarier things than you have tried to kill me," except, you know, classier. But no. Male rescue. 

Quote

Whh...hy did Mulder have to slit that bad guy's throat? with a handy scalpel that was...there, for some reason? HE IS ARMED, after all.

He may not have wanted to risk hitting Scully. 

Quote

Mulder... getting holes drilled in his skull... 

Oh yes, do not believe we have forgotten about that, Fox. That time you went and ASKED SOMEONE TO DRILL HOLES IN YOUR HEAD. We remember. 

[Rushmoras]

10 hours ago, domina89 said:

The problem with any reboot or revival, especially one years later, is that if you stick to the formula that worked in the past, critics will say the showrunners have no new ideas and the show is stale or just retread, but if the showrunners change it up to be more "modern" and similar to other shows at that time, the fans complain and say it isn't the show they knew and loved.  It is kind of a no-win situation, really.  I think in this case, the storylines could follow more updated topics (no medical rape, please), but the pacing, the lighting, the music, and the overall mood of the show that makes it The X-Files, could remain the same as 20 years ago.  

The problem with this is, that in my opinion we had the new X-Files even before Chris Carter re-openened them. And that was FRINGE.

[ganesh]

I think that underscores what I've been getting at with modern relevance and asking how your show resonates with a modern audience. 

[Sandman]

On 1/4/2018 at 0:26 AM, Ghost of TWOP Past said:

• Long, pretentious speeches which add up to nothing? Check. 
• Characters who keep insisting they have something important to tell but never tell it? Check. 
• My familiar sense of resentful incomprehension? Check. 
• Yet another plot/conspiracy without resolving any of the pre-existing ones? Check. 

Yep, this is the same old X Files alrighty. :D 

Well, when you put it this way, surprise does seem ... not exactly called for. Heh.

[phantom]

Watching that episode I realized I had forgotten so much about the original run, even though I was a devoted fan back in the day. There was more exposition in that episode than I could handle. Very disappointed in the Scully arc of being helpless in the hospital while her son telepathically messages her about the end of the world. I'm a cynic, but William may not be alive or at least not living freely - with all the strings CSM has pulled over the years I find it impossible to believe he didn't find out where the miraculous science experiment child has been for 17 years. It's too much of a wild card for CSM to risk, in my opinion. But of course, William may be the "Jesus" figure to save all humanity from whatever is coming, so grain of salt with that theory.

I don't think Mulder has aged badly, but it was jarring that he looks older while Skinner looks (in my opinion) exactly the same other than the gray facial hair. Can men get botox on their bald heads? Haha.

And Mustangs aren't that pricy when compared with luxury brands, so it's certainly believable that it was Mulder's mid-life crisis car of choice. Though that car chase was really just a commercial.

[festivus]

11 minutes ago, phantom said:

I'm a cynic, but William may not be alive or at least not living freely - with all the strings CSM has pulled over the years I find it impossible to believe he didn't find out where the miraculous science experiment child has been for 17 years.

This reminds me; how are they going to do a time jump, or are they? This episode since it continued right from My Struggle II should still put the time in 2016. I know they showed some scenes at the beginning when CSM was talking and Trump was in them. I always zone out when he is talking so I don't know if those scenes included Trump as President. If so, then they will have to move the time forward. I hope they do, I think it would be better if William were 17 and not 15.

[phantom]

53 minutes ago, festivus said:

. I always zone out when he is talking so I don't know if those scenes included Trump as President. If so, then they will have to move the time forward.

Yes, there was a clip of Trump taking oath of office, so there is a time jump issue unless they just ignore that as the least problematic part of the tangled story arc!

[luna1122]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

 

I don't think Mulder has aged badly, but it was jarring that he looks older while Skinner looks (in my opinion) exactly the same other than the gray facial hair. Can men get botox on their bald heads? Haha.

 

I think it's a benefit of Mitch Pileggi having always looked middle aged...he was early 40s when the show began, only roughly 10 years older than the other two, give or take, but he looked 55-60. They were super young looking and fresh faced...he looked like their dad. Now that they are middle aged and beyond, they look more like contemporaries...he still looks 55-60, tho he's 65.

[domina89]

6 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

The problem with this is, that in my opinion we had the new X-Files even before Chris Carter re-openened them. And that was FRINGE.

Well Fringe is missing a key ingredient though- Mulder and Scully. For me, personally, the show *is* Mulder and Scully and their friendship/partnership.  They are the only reason I have watched in the past and the only reason I continue to watch.  For others it may be more about the stories, the MOTW, the paranormal aspect, the mythology, etc, so a modernized interpretation of TXF with new characters might appeal to them. 

I do think there is a place in today's entertainment for some of the ideas CC introduced back in the 90's, but we also live in a world where people are willingly wiretapping their homes and cars with listening devices like Alexa and OnStar. As Mulder wittily suggested once in "Colony," the mantra "trust no one" has become "trust everyone."  It is difficult to express the original ideas of the series to a modern society without changing the core of what the show was/is about and who the characters were/are and still make it/them relatable.  That's why I think CC is in a difficult position.  I think he and perhaps the others involved got caught up in the nostalgic aspect of "getting the band back together" without fully comprehending that he may not be able to tell the stories now that he planned to tell 20 years ago (but didn't get the chance).  

[ganesh]

I don't think anyone besides CC denies that the X Files is Mulder and Scully. I think the point of bringing up Fringe is that it is a good example of how to do a mythology for a modern audience. 

How we watch TV now is vastly different from back in the XF heyday; what we expect from storytelling, characterization, etc. 

The fundamental question should have been how do we make Mulder and Scully relevant now? Honestly, I think they just have to reach back to the second movie and take a good look at that. 

[Italian Ice]

Apparently there was a secret message at the very end of the episode (the part with William and the "alien" voices)

[baileythedog]

14 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I don't think anyone besides CC denies that the X Files is Mulder and Scully. I think the point of bringing up Fringe is that it is a good example of how to do a mythology for a modern audience. 

How we watch TV now is vastly different from back in the XF heyday; what we expect from storytelling, characterization, etc. 

The fundamental question should have been how do we make Mulder and Scully relevant now? Honestly, I think they just have to reach back to the second movie and take a good look at that. 

I don't know about this analysis.  I do know that "Fringe" is barely anywhere in the pop culture dialogue and I couldn't name the main characters of Fringe if you held a gun to my head.  Few but the devoted fan base could name an over-arching theme or story arc of Fringe while most Americans, particularly of a certain age but even with generational resonance, know exactly who Mulder and Scully are and how their names are a mental short cut to the themes of the show. 

I think a lot of this teeth gnashing comes down to the fact that TPTB are somehow not telling the story that you want to see. Others are perfectly fine w/ how TXF has evolved or adapted. 

[baileythedog]

44 minutes ago, Italian Ice said:

Apparently there was a secret message at the very end of the episode (the part with William and the "alien" voices)

Does he say "I buried Paul?" 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Yeah, agreed, baileythedog. It's fine if people think that Fringe was a superior show but I never watched an episode of it, so that suggestion doesn't resonate with me at all. 

Anne Simon posted this critique of MSIII to Twitter, and I have to say, there is a lot in it that I do agree with or that matches how I see the episode:

Quote

 

Many will be horrified by this turn of events and rightly so. Carter is quite clearly not just tethering his new season to the post-Truth era of lies, misinformation and the creation of false narrative, but via the Smoking Man he is able to comment on the most sensitive of recent issues – the abuses of power by significant white male figures in the entertainment industry. The Cigarette-Smoking Man is the ultimate expression of abuse of power; for decades we have seen him abduct innocent people to be tested on, experiment on alien life forms, subject his own children to dangerous medical procedures or extreme torture (which led to the disfigurement of his son Jeffrey Spender, after he shot him in the face – a character who reappears here after a long absence) and ally with alien colonists at the expense of the human race.

His Spartan plan, to wipe out billions so an ‘elite’ can rule the Earth, is a completely logical step for the Devil incarnate, so for him to have abused Scully’s vulnerability and trust in such a personal, horrific way would be totally in-keeping with his character. It also allows Carter to almost inverse the point levelled against him as a creative – rather than actively contributing to the narrative of exploitation against women, he makes his ultimate villain the very incarnation of that abuse. You *should* be horrified by this, every bit as much as the fact we have a President of the United States who thinks that kind of behaviour is completely acceptable.

 

I mean, I get why people are horrified by the suggestion.  It's an incredible violation of Scully and not to put too fine a point on it, it's also a horrible thing to do have done to Mulder.  (Which is, I believe, much the point - more than being "in love" with Scully, CSM has a reverse-Oedipal love/hate thing going on with Mulder).  But it's CSM - he's an awful human being. He does bad things.  Why would a viewer believe that we're supposed to approve of CSM's actions here? Why would a viewer believe that Carter is saying we're supposed to approve of CSM's actions here?  Why wouldn't a viewer instead see CSM as the stand in for a generation of old white men who have done terrible things, to women, to anyone who was not like them, etc.?  It just seems so clear to me that Carter has, for a long time, looked at CSM and the Syndicate as a whole for that generation of morally- and ethically-compromised leadership.  Carter's wokeness may be imperfect, but IMO, it's there.

(Which is not to say that I still like everything he does or that he can't be improved upon. Honestly, he really needs a writing partner to help him pare back the excesses of his writing and to translate the big ideas into things that work on tv. Also, maybe not directing anymore).

[ganesh]

It's not about a comparison of which shows are better or not. I'm not even the one who brought up the analogy, but watching both I get it. It's about how the show was put together, not about which is more indelible or in the pop culture. 

Honestly, it seems more like CC is getting far too much credit for what he threw at the screen. The whole mythology seems to have stagnated since probably S7 and he seems to be doing the same thing since the reboot. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by ganesh

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

This is probably just more of the usual X Files storyline muddle, but William can't be the savior, can he? I distinctly hazily remember that he used to be magnetic or something and a cult was following him around or something, so they de-somethingified him, the cult stopped stalking them, and he no longer made metal fly around in the air, and became a normal kid. Uh, right? 

Incidentally, since both Mulder's and Scully's fathers were also named William, maybe we could avoid some ambiguity by referring to their son as Billy the Kid. Just a suggestion. 

[Taryn74]

30 minutes ago, Ghost of TWOP Past said:

This is probably just more of the usual X Files storyline muddle, but William can't be the savior, can he? I distinctly hazily remember that he used to be magnetic or something and a cult was following him around or something, so they de-somethingified him, the cult stopped stalking them, and he no longer made metal fly around in the air, and became a normal kid. Uh, right? 

Incidentally, since both Mulder's and Scully's fathers were also named William, maybe we could avoid some ambiguity by referring to their son as Billy the Kid. Just a suggestion. 

Billy the Kid....heh.  On a related note, I was looking up the new characters on IMDB and saw an entry for William Mulder and was really confused why they would have a scene with William as an old man.  Then I realized it was Mulder's dad.  Ha!

Jeffrey injected William with magnetite in the episode William, because the supersoldiers were the ones after him at that point (and I fully believe CSM is a supersoldier, as I've said above) and magnetite is the one thing that will kill them.  It didn't take away his telekinetic or telepathic powers, however.

The cultists were trying to kill him and/or Mulder for their own convoluted reasons.  I think they were all killed off and that plotline ended, though.

[spritz]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, siangali said:

Same, so gross. I am out. I'll stick with my fond memories of this show. No wonder Gillian A wants out.

By calling it quits, Gillian Anderson probably did CC and the franchise a great service. The mytharc had run its course a long time ago. The show has gone stale. It looks old and tired. It is time to wrap things up.

 

If CC thinks this show is still fresh and compelling, he would be delusional. Maybe GA's leaving will force CC to give the show a semblance of a dignified conclusion.

 

For the remainder of this season, I hope the series sticks to MOTW stories until the finale.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

17 minutes ago, spritz said:

By calling it quits, Gillian Anderson probably did CC and the franchise a great service. The mytharc had run its course a long time ago. The show has gone stale. It looks old and tired. It is time to wrap things up.

 

If CC thinks this show is still fresh and compelling, he would be delusional. Maybe GA's leaving will force CC to give the show a semblance of a dignified conclusion.

 

For the remainder of this season, I hope the series sticks to MOTW stories until the finale.

De gustibus non est disputandum. I don't feel that way and a lot of the critics, who have seen more than just MSIII don't feel that way either.  I get why people hated this episode - I didn't love it either! - but I don't think the show has gone stale, looks old and tired, or that CC is delusional. I am happy the show is back.  If there are no other episodes beyond season 11, then that is fine, but I wish people would stop confusing their own feelings about the show with some universal feeling about it.

(I feel like this is an old conversation that goes back 15 years, at this point. When I stopped getting enjoyment out of the show, I stopped watching it. I just find it frustrating to have the same conversation about whether or not the show should exist at this point vs. what the show is actually saying. I'd much rather debate who CSM is supposed to represent than argue whether or not he should be appearing on my tv screen at all).

Edited January 5, 2018 by eleanorofaquitaine

[ganesh]

Maybe people don't want to just stop watching the show because they have so much investment in it and want to believe it can be more. I do think the show can have relevance and I'm disappointed. Dictating viewer habits is rather condescending and being critical of a show within reason is a fair arena for viewing. Maybe then they're should be a new thread opened that speaks to these issues, and, here, we can address what incredulity that CSM has gotten up to. 

The fact that it's nearly the same conversation is rather telling and underscores the problem. 

I mean, we all nearly agree that the mythology is a mess so it can be futile to really look at it when it's largely been CC having CSM say something cryptic that will be ret conned at some point. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by ganesh

[Bastet]

23 minutes ago, spritz said:

For the remainder of this season, I hope the series sticks to MOTW stories until the finale.

It does, thankfully.  Only the first five episodes were released to critics - most of whom (at least from those I read) said this episode is awful, but once you suffer through it you get four good MOTW episodes that feel more like classic XF than did last season's episodes - but it was announced way back when that there would be mythology bookends, and the eight in the middle would be MOTW.

[baileythedog]

3 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Maybe people don't want to just stop watching the show because they have so much investment in it and want to believe it can be more. I do think the show can have relevance and I'm disappointed. Dictating viewer habits is rather condescending and being critical of a show within reason is a fair arena for viewing. Maybe then they're should be a new thread opened that speaks to these issues, and, here, we can address what incredulity that CSM has gotten up to. 

The fact that it's nearly the same conversation is rather telling and underscores the problem. 

I mean, we all nearly agree that the mythology is a mess so it can be futile to really look at it when it's largely been CC having CSM say something cryptic that will be ret conned at some point. 

I think the fact that it is the same argument actually puts the onus on people who don't have it in them to just get up and walk away and watch one of the other hundreds of TV shows that gets churned out annually in peak TV.  Honestly, there is so much good to watch out there. Why be endlessly frustrated with a show that isn't doing what you think it should be doing?  I've seen posted something along the lines of, "...it has the same problems its had since season two...."  Seriously, WTF is wrong with the person who couldn't detach themselves from a show in 1994 and is still banging on about it?  Or 1999 for that matter? 

I, personally, do not agree that the mythology is a "mess" and that there should be universal recognition of this. Prior to the last revival, I did a re-watch of all seasons, all movies, and found, pleasantly, that the mythology mostly hung together pretty well, despite the twists and turns.  

If I understand what I'm seeing portions of now, it seems that CSM has taken on the past efforts of the various syndicates and is adapting them against the societal and elemental changes in modern society to his own best interest. This doesn't appear to be stagnant to me at all and seems fairly relevant to where we are in society.  

[Taryn74]

33 minutes ago, baileythedog said:

I, personally, do not agree that the mythology is a "mess" and that there should be universal recognition of this. Prior to the last revival, I did a re-watch of all seasons, all movies, and found, pleasantly, that the mythology mostly hung together pretty well, despite the twists and turns. 

I agree!  There are some offshoots of the mytharc that are harder to follow (like the cultists in S9, who didn't seem like they were supposed to be a vital part of the mytharc anyway so I kind of forget about them) but the general mytharc has stayed the same since the first episode -- aliens crashed on this planet decades ago, and since then a select group known as The Syndicate has been working both with the aliens and (secretly) against them regarding the ultimate enslavement and/or destruction of the human race.  Almost everything we've learned about the mytharc has been through Mulder's eyes, so it only makes sense that we don't see the whole picture, because HE'S never been allowed to see the whole picture.  They've been letting him get jusssst close enough to "the truth" to not give up chasing since before we ever met him, but never quite close enough to be able to piece it all together correctly.  Since most of The Syndicate is now dead (having been executed en masse in S6? S7?), CSM pretty much has free reign to do whatever he wants to, and that's what we are seeing out of him in S10 and S11.

It really doesn't seem that convoluted to me.