S11.E01: My Struggle III

[baileythedog]

5 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

I agree!  There are some offshoots of the mytharc that are harder to follow (like the cultists in S9, who didn't seem like they were supposed to be a vital part of the mytharc anyway so I kind of forget about them) but the general mytharc has stayed the same since the first episode

At first glance the cultists were an evolutionary dead end as far as the overarching mythology goes, but they served the purpose in completely freaking Scully out and making her think there was no way she could protect her son alone.  It was one more thing that led her to give up William for adoption. 

[festivus]

Wasn't that ugly old bastard that Mulder was talking to, one of the Syndicate? I could have sworn he was left to die by CSM and that hag that was Mulder's ex. (Sorry, my memory is not good for names. Or anything else, really) Or was it just some other fat old dude?

[spritz]

1 hour ago, baileythedog said:

I think the fact that it is the same argument actually puts the onus on people who don't have it in them to just get up and walk away and watch one of the other hundreds of TV shows that gets churned out annually in peak TV.  Honestly, there is so much good to watch out there. Why be endlessly frustrated with a show that isn't doing what you think it should be doing?  I've seen posted something along the lines of, "...it has the same problems its had since season two...."  Seriously, WTF is wrong with the person who couldn't detach themselves from a show in 1994 and is still banging on about it?  Or 1999 for that matter? 

I, personally, do not agree that the mythology is a "mess" and that there should be universal recognition of this. Prior to the last revival, I did a re-watch of all seasons, all movies, and found, pleasantly, that the mythology mostly hung together pretty well, despite the twists and turns.  

If I understand what I'm seeing portions of now, it seems that CSM has taken on the past efforts of the various syndicates and is adapting them against the societal and elemental changes in modern society to his own best interest. This doesn't appear to be stagnant to me at all and seems fairly relevant to where we are in society.  

Since this series began, I have found the MOTW stories so much more compelling than the mytharc -- although during the early seasons, the mytharc was interesting enough. 

 

I thought that maybe CC would come up with something new and fresh with the mytharc after so much time had past. From what was shown in the season premiere, that wasn't the case imo. 

 

Fortunately, according to what other posters have written, the remaining episodes till the finale will be MOTW stories. X files had, in general, done a decent job with MOTW stories.

Edited January 5, 2018 by spritz

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, festivus said:

Wasn't that ugly old bastard that Mulder was talking to, one of the Syndicate? I could have sworn he was left to die by CSM and that hag that was Mulder's ex. (Sorry, my memory is not good for names. Or anything else, really) Or was it just some other fat old dude?

He said he was a part of the old Syndicate. It wasn't made clear if it was supposed to be someone we already knew or not.

[festivus]

Thanks. I had time now to look it up and it's not the same dude from the old days that I thought it was. In my defense, I think they look similar and I'm not great with faces. Or names like I said before. IMBD is calling this new guy Mr. Y. The old guy it calls Elder #1. I always called him Old Mobster Guy.

[MissL]

6 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Yeah, agreed, baileythedog. It's fine if people think that Fringe was a superior show but I never watched an episode of it, so that suggestion doesn't resonate with me at all. 

Anne Simon posted this critique of MSIII to Twitter, and I have to say, there is a lot in it that I do agree with or that matches how I see the episode:

I mean, I get why people are horrified by the suggestion.  It's an incredible violation of Scully and not to put too fine a point on it, it's also a horrible thing to do have done to Mulder.  (Which is, I believe, much the point - more than being "in love" with Scully, CSM has a reverse-Oedipal love/hate thing going on with Mulder).  But it's CSM - he's an awful human being. He does bad things.  Why would a viewer believe that we're supposed to approve of CSM's actions here? Why would a viewer believe that Carter is saying we're supposed to approve of CSM's actions here?  Why wouldn't a viewer instead see CSM as the stand in for a generation of old white men who have done terrible things, to women, to anyone who was not like them, etc.?  It just seems so clear to me that Carter has, for a long time, looked at CSM and the Syndicate as a whole for that generation of morally- and ethically-compromised leadership.  Carter's wokeness may be imperfect, but IMO, it's there.

(Which is not to say that I still like everything he does or that he can't be improved upon. Honestly, he really needs a writing partner to help him pare back the excesses of his writing and to translate the big ideas into things that work on tv. Also, maybe not directing anymore).

I don't think we are saying that we think Carter is expecting us to approve of what CSM "the bad guy" did to Scully at all. That's not even what I'm mad about. The show doesn't play it as it was a good thing. Skinner looks rightfully horrified and of course we know we are supposed to see that as wrong. The problem is Carter the writer went there AGAIN. There was plenty of other emotional conflicts to be played in this story, Some have been already articulated very well in this thread, without having to go to that particular path. Why violate your main female character when you've already done it once before? and we as an audience understood the original alien abduction/experimentation arc it made sense in the mythology of alien invaders and was well done. Come up with a story beat that doesn't medically rape your female lead yet again just because it sounds neat to you. There was no real story purpose. I'd accepted William was special due to the experimentation and exposure to weird stuff BOTH of his parents had been through in the past. That's all I needed. 

 

Plus I honestly think he has nothing but contempt for shippers and will trash a plot  to screw with them.  But that's my personal belief because he always seemed a bit angry that we wouldn't let that shit go. I mean from what I understand even DD had to finally step in when CC wanted Mulder to kiss Scully on the forehead AGAIN when she presented William to him and basically said "that's stupid just have us kiss" which they finally caved to. 

God im still angry with CC. 

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, festivus said:

Thanks. I had time now to look it up and it's not the same dude from the old days that I thought it was. In my defense, I think they look similar and I'm not great with faces. Or names like I said before. IMBD is calling this new guy Mr. Y. The old guy it calls Elder #1. I always called him Old Mobster Guy.

FWIW, I thought it was Elder #1 as well until I looked it up, LOL.

[Tippi Blevins]

Three main thoughts.

1. Every time I saw Monica I fondly remembered "Moronica" from the old twop recaps.

2. I was extremely disappointed that instead of tapping out Morse code, Scully's brain didn't have a genetically modified bee in it, dancing to communicate its message.

3. Gross. Just... fuckin' gross to have CSM be the father. It's a gross violation of her. It grossed me out so much I had to log in for the first time in a million years.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

2 hours ago, MissL said:

I don't think we are saying that we think Carter is expecting us to approve of what CSM "the bad guy" did to Scully at all. That's not even what I'm mad about. The show doesn't play it as it was a good thing. Skinner looks rightfully horrified and of course we know we are supposed to see that as wrong. The problem is Carter the writer went there AGAIN. There was plenty of other emotional conflicts to be played in this story, Some have been already articulated very well in this thread, without having to go to that particular path. Why violate your main female character when you've already done it once before? and we as an audience understood the original alien abduction/experimentation arc it made sense in the mythology of alien invaders and was well done. Come up with a story beat that doesn't medically rape your female lead yet again just because it sounds neat to you. There was no real story purpose. I'd accepted William was special due to the experimentation and exposure to weird stuff BOTH of his parents had been through in the past. That's all I needed. 

 

Plus I honestly think he has nothing but contempt for shippers and will trash a plot  to screw with them.  But that's my personal belief because he always seemed a bit angry that we wouldn't let that shit go. I mean from what I understand even DD had to finally step in when CC wanted Mulder to kiss Scully on the forehead AGAIN when she presented William to him and basically said "that's stupid just have us kiss" which they finally caved to. 

God im still angry with CC. 

I agree that he does have a thing about shippers and about Mulder and Scully's romantic relationship being at the heart of the show. He's clearly VERY ambivalent about it, to look at it in the best of light.

But as for the violation - I don't want to say that it doesn't bother me because of course it is an awful thing.  But I suppose I see it as an extension of the story he's been telling about women's reproductive rights - and the desire of men to control them - for a long time.  And to be honest, I have actually appreciated his willingness to tell that story, way before most in popular culture were willing to do so. Again, that doesn't mean he always gets it right, because he doesn't (the waving away of the rapes that took place in Post-Modern Prometheus being a good example).  And because he is a man, I think people rightfully want to question why he's so interested in that story.  But I think that there are deeper questions Carter is asking there that I appreciate, even if I don't always feel as if they are executed most appropriately. 

[Soobs]

I really hope that the nuanced discussion that is happening here also took place in the writers' room but somehow I doubt it did. This is where having a diverse group of people writing for a show really matters. Really disappointing start to this season. I hated all the phony drama and action movie nonsense. At least in the original series it was mostly in service of something that was interesting. CC says he doesn't want a soap opera but when the whole focus is who's the baby daddy, it pretty much becomes one.

[kokapetl]

Didn’t Scully hide William via adoption in order to keep him away from the CSM, because William was an alien/human hybrid, and the CSM was deeply involved in the shady alien/human hybrid program? Also, wouldn’t William being an alien/human hybrid strongly imply that the alien/human hybrid program people created him? This was already established in 2002, right?

Edited January 6, 2018 by Kokapetl

[spaulding]

WTH did I watch?  Ten minutes in: Scully is getting coded messages in her brain.  I switched over to Mulder and Scully Meet the Were-Monster to cleanse the palate.  That episode is pure perfection. 

I'll try to watch My Struggle III another time.  Ugh, it'll be such a chore.

[shanndee]

Wow. Just...wow.

Thank you all for validating my decision to not watch this season. Clearly my visiting this topic shows that I still care enough about the characters to want to know what happens, but I refuse to actually watch. I really want Carter to just go away, leaving the writing and directed to his far more talented and capable team. Perhaps that would leave me with just a few untarnished memories of something I once loved dearly. The only way I can be a part of making that happen is to refuse to buy the far inferior "product" Carter is selling.

Clearly he had no vision. He constantly wrote himself into corners and he didn't have the skill to work himself out. The result is the mess we have here. Character assassination and constant resurrecting of the dead.

But...making the strong, educated, capable female lead nothing but a damsel in distress? Violation of said character? Medical rape? There are not enough words in the language to indicate my disgust and fury. 

I actually...have no words...

[atlantaloves]

Thank you thank you thank you, I totally agree, and boy am I through with this show that I loved so dearly as well. We can watch her on The Fall...or repeats of The Fall if that is over with. I love both actors, and they deserve a SCRIPT. Did anybody see him in Aquarius?  It was cancelled, but wow, he was WONDERFUL....the coolest cop EVER with the best one liners. Adored it. 

[Taryn74]

On 1/6/2018 at 6:12 AM, Kokapetl said:

Didn’t Scully hide William via adoption in order to keep him away from the CSM, because William was an alien/human hybrid, and the CSM was deeply involved in the shady alien/human hybrid program? Also, wouldn’t William being an alien/human hybrid strongly imply that the alien/human hybrid program people created him? This was already established in 2002, right?

Well, yes and no.  Scully put William up for adoption because Jeffrey Spender finally convinced her that William would never be safe from the different factions hunting him, even though the magnetite Jeffrey injected him with would at least keep the supersoldiers personally away from him.  According to Krycek, they attempted to use Scully in a program to create "organic" supersoldiers, but that's not what William is.  William's conception was beyond their attempts to one-up the aliens, and that's why they are both so fascinated with, and terrified by, him -- they don't know exactly what he is or how he came to be.

Overall, IMO the Syndicate basically opened Pandora's Box when they sent Dana Scully down to that basement office, and they've been scrambling to figure out how to fix their mistake ever since.

[festivus]

13 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

William's conception was beyond their attempts to one-up the aliens, and that's why they are both so fascinated with, and terrified by, him -- they don't know exactly what he is or how he came to be.

Well, our theory about the ship healing her is now in the crapper. Or is it? I'm gonna give CC the last episode of this season to either fix this very problematic story line of medical rape by having that burnt out skull have to face consequences of what he's done, or have him be a lying liar who lies. If it's not then I don't know. I just don't know.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, festivus said:

Well, our theory about the ship healing her is now in the crapper. Or is it? I'm gonna give CC the last episode of this season to either fix this very problematic story line of medical rape by having that burnt out skull have to face consequences of what he's done, or have him be a lying liar who lies. If it's not then I don't know. I just don't know.

Personally I've always thought CSM did something in En Ami to heal Scully's reproductive system, and what he said in MSIII just backs that up.  It was the microchip which healed her cancer, remember, so they easily could have done other things via microchip.

Alternatively, the ship in Biogenesis DID heal her and CSM with his inflated ego just thought it was him.  Heh.  (Which would also go along with "something out there" always one-upping CSM and the Syndicate, so this theory works just as well for me.)

[festivus]

I like your theories. I'm happy the next eight eps will be MOTW with some mythology sprinkled in(I think that's how it's going). Will hopefully give a chance to understand more about this story line before the end episode. I still want some explanation for why Monica is with CSM.

 

Wasn't done, had to edit because this post insisted on going into italics and I don't know why. Anyway, I plan to watch this episode again keeping some of the theories I've read around the web in mind. Also I will try not to zone out when that old husk is bloviating. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by festivus

[AntiBeeSpray]

6 hours ago, festivus said:

Well, our theory about the ship healing her is now in the crapper. Or is it? I'm gonna give CC the last episode of this season to either fix this very problematic story line of medical rape by having that burnt out skull have to face consequences of what he's done, or have him be a lying liar who lies. If it's not then I don't know. I just don't know.

I'd take that theory over the one that CSM is pushing. The liar that he IS.

[queenanne]

On 1/4/2018 at 9:44 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

I would have to agree with this. I don't trust CSM and think it's all a lie to get William for some other nefarious purpose.

 

Agreed, I'm putting it here first:  Mulder is absolutely William's biological father and this is a fakeout, because they've spent so much time with Scully and/or Mulder calling him My Son and Our Son over the course of the last episode alone, that the words have now lost all meaning for me; and I don't think CC is that bad a writer that this could have been done and intended wholly as irony.  I think this is a "show tentpole" removed only temporarily to get this kind of reaction out of the audience.  Just because he doesn't want Mulder and Scully's relationship to be a linchpin or focus of the show, isn't necessarily the same thing as saying he wishes it gone or wants to actively torpedo it.  

[Miles]

Wow, this was even more of a hot mess than last season and even that seasons finale. But I guess they got me watching. I'm really curious to see how coocoo for cocopuffs this thing will go. I don't think any fanfic writer could have come up with something even half as insane. That's probably a first, the official writers out-fanficing the fanficers.

[Taryn74]

Watched MSIII again today and noticed something I haven't seen anyone comment on yet.  Toward the beginning when William is "sending" Scully snippets of CSM's conversation with Monica ("Mulder will be coming for me.....we are not to be found....") that conversation hadn't actually happened yet.  He was sending it several seconds before we saw CSM & Monica talking.  Hmmmm.

[AntiBeeSpray]

On 1/10/2018 at 1:06 PM, Taryn74 said:

Watched MSIII again today and noticed something I haven't seen anyone comment on yet.  Toward the beginning when William is "sending" Scully snippets of CSM's conversation with Monica ("Mulder will be coming for me.....we are not to be found....") that conversation hadn't actually happened yet.  He was sending it several seconds before we saw CSM & Monica talking.  Hmmmm.

Ooh good catch.

[azshadowwalker]

Finally watched. I gave up early last season, and this might be the only episode for me. Too much fan service for shippers. Still. I don't want this bullshit relationship, and it's a reason I gave up on the franchise years ago. Solve cases. I don't want to see their "love" or their version of domesticity. I want their friendship, comraderie, and professional rapport, and those things only. This show is such a mess, and I am so disappointed. 

[millennium]

Having savored every moment of Gillian Anderson's original spin as Dana Scully, her work in The Fall, Hannibal, etc., I sadly found myself pitying her as Dana Scully 2018.   My only comfort is knowing she will take on other roles after this, and they will not be embarrassments.   Then, perhaps, to some degree, I can put this whole mess behind me.

The writing was abysmal.   The conspiracy stuff is just plain lifeless now.   Secret science and clandestine government cabals no longer have the power to frighten or inspire the imagination.    Today, the truly terrifying threats to the world are ignorance, lack of education,  and blind loyalty.   The conspirators do their dirty work right out in the open now, with 24-hour coverage on cable news.   Carter has utterly failed to make an adjustment for our modern dystopia.

I never cared for the CSM episodes (except for the one where he publishes a story in Roman A Clef).   The part he plays in this revival is much more prominent than in the past.   His original mystique was partially derived from a sparing use of the character.   But it seemed like he was on camera this whole episode, babbling endless exposition.

And what was with all the geriatric actors?   It felt like an episode of X-Files She Wrote.  

As for CSM's reveal at the end, didn't Carter realize this was more likely to make viewers feel queasy and violated rather than intrigued?   No magic at all in this episode.    You really can't go home again.

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, millennium said:

Carter has utterly failed to make an adjustment for our modern dystopia.

This is what I meant by he's making the show for a 90s audience still.

[Taryn74]

I just finished watching this one for the fifth? sixth? time.  I just can't get over how much better S11 is than S10 already.  I could only sit through S10 twice (with the exception of the Trash Man episode, I thought it was really good) but I keep itching to watch S11 episodes again to pick up on something I may have missed before.  I haven't felt that way about TXF in YEARS.

I know a lot of people have checked out of the series already, and more power to them, but personally I'm really excited to see where this season is taking us.

#OnceAnXPhileAlwaysAnXPhile

[AntiBeeSpray]

I'd do so for this ep, but I haven't even watched very much of it for a second time. Those damn quick cuts just make it damn near impossible for me to do so. 

That said, I like this new season other wise. Couldn't care less about the myth arc. William aside, I'm hoping that MS 4 doesn't resort to that baloney. Had to go to EatTheCorn just to get the plot straight. 

Quick cuts do that for me. Distract me.

[Lemons]

On 1/3/2018 at 11:26 PM, SparklesBitch said:

Exactly. Exactly. I hate the whole thing. CC has no respect for his own characters. And making this choice for Scully, especially in the light of the current climate in the US right now surrounding sexual assault and consent and all that. He ripped her agency away from her and I’m not going to forgive him for that. I just....really, CC?

It's a TV show.  About aliens.  Is it supposed to be worried about current climate?  I don't get it. 

[Neptune]

On 5/28/2014 at 9:40 PM, Taryn74 said:

 that "the truth" Mulder was afraid to tell Scully, the truth he was afraid would crush her spirit, wasn't about the colonization date at all, it was about William and his role in the end game.  Because Mulder refusing to tell her THAT?  I could easily buy.  Not so much his refusing to tell her that the Mayan calendar end date (which has been a source of urban legends for a long time) was the date the aliens are supposedly going to colonize.  I think CSM played his sick little mind games all the way up until the end, making Mulder think he was going to tell Scully the REAL truth, and then didn't, just to get a rise out of Mulder.

 

 

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Carter has utterly failed to make an adjustment for our modern dystopia.

This was a frustration I had with season 10. Despite all the self-conscious references to contemporary technology, the show felt stale.

[Neptune]

[festivus]

Ha, until I scrolled down I thought William B. Davis was being depicted as the burnt out skull. That's what I call CSM. Still, cool poster. Sucky episode.

[Taryn74]

42 minutes ago, festivus said:

Ha, until I scrolled down I thought William B. Davis was being depicted as the burnt out skull. 

HA!  I thought the same thing.

[Bastet]

Quote

What was your favorite moment from our season premiere?

When the end credits came up, putting an end to my hour-long nightmare.

[AntiBeeSpray]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

When the end credits came up, putting an end to my hour-long nightmare.

Same. The implied rape and the quick cuts made the ep un re watchable. Hate it.

[MissL]

On 2/27/2018 at 7:11 PM, Bastet said:

When the end credits came up, putting an end to my hour-long nightmare.

If you read most of the posts under the poster when they put it on Facebook they all pretty much repeated your sentiments. I think someone's exact quote was "when it was over".  

This episode at times bored me, made my eyes roll back in my head so hard I thought they might stick and then gave me a rage blackout. I hate it and the fact that it made me hate CC. I already had some strong dislike for the man after some of the ridiculousness he's pulled but could hold on to warmth in appreciation for what he created but....omfg he had her raped...again.  

I can't seem to quote two different posters on my iPad in one post but Lemons  yes it's a show about aliens but CHRIS needs to be aware of current climate and maybe don't go back to the tired old well of rape as a catalyst for a female characters story. I'm sure someone can say this better than me but Chris as he's writing should maybe start to absorb that a large portion of his audience is female and we just don't want to see that. That its lazy storytelling.  That He is again using her body as a plot device. That he refuses to call it rape and that's wrong and misogynistic.

Edited March 1, 2018 by MissL

[AudienceofOne]

Me two months ago: I will sit down and watch this episode

Me 10 seconds into that awful opening monologue: maybe next week

Me one month ago: I will sit down and watch this episode

Me 20 seconds into that awful opening monologue: maybe next week

Me two weeks ago: I will sit down and watch this episode

Me at the point where they decide they're getting morse code from her hypothalamus: I JUST CAN'T

I'm left with the unfortunate realisation that this show was always this bad but it was so quirky and well-acted that we didn't realise. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

I don't think it was always this bad. There are eps that were well done. It's just devolved into a nightmare.

[AudienceofOne]

5 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

I don't think it was always this bad. There are eps that were well done. It's just devolved into a nightmare.

Retrospectively, the mytharc was always this bad and CC's writing was always this self-indulgent. You'd think the long break would have spurred CC to bed down his mythology but the's doubled down on its inconsistencies instead. And I agree with everyone that the treatment of Scully by this show and in this episode in particular is offensive and misogynistic. 

I think the fun, witty episodes in the old seasons tricked us into thinking this was a better show. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

3 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Retrospectively, the mytharc was always this bad and CC's writing was always this self-indulgent. You'd think the long break would have spurred CC to bed down his mythology but the's doubled down on its inconsistencies instead. And I agree with everyone that the treatment of Scully by this show and in this episode in particular is offensive and misogynistic. 

I think the fun, witty episodes in the old seasons tricked us into thinking this was a better show. 

I agree with you about the mytharc for what it's worth. He's always bs'ed his way out of concluding things and what not. What I mean though otherwise is that his dialogue work has gotten atrocious. As purple prosy as he could be back in the day, he's really out done himself during these revivals. O_o And he's gotten that much more spiteful over the years too. It's sick.

Seconded.  But honestly, some of the episodes were written by him. Improbable being one I can think of.  But I've thought over the years that he has a spiteful side to him as  well.

[MissL]

On 3/24/2018 at 6:36 PM, AudienceofOne said:

Retrospectively, the mytharc was always this bad and CC's writing was always this self-indulgent. You'd think the long break would have spurred CC to bed down his mythology but the's doubled down on its inconsistencies instead. And I agree with everyone that the treatment of Scully by this show and in this episode in particular is offensive and misogynistic. 

I think the fun, witty episodes in the old seasons tricked us into thinking this was a better show. 

I don't know. I loved some of the early mytharc episodes. I remember being enthralled with Anasazi/Paper Clip and Colony/End Game and a few others and was willing to overlook the crazy flowery prose.  Its just the mytharc became question, question, new question and no answers. And how are we supposed to care about colonization when the date has come and gone and no invasion and not because our heroes did anything to effect it but just because....  

It started to feel like..and I saw this a lot in the revival.....CHRIS or the writers have these cool "moments" or scenes they want to get to or have an idea about in their head but no coherent storytelling way to get there.  

[ganesh]

Yeah, I think in the early seasons there was also a sense that there was some actual direction so there was an excitement of unraveling the mystery. Once S5 hit and the movie came out I realized there was nothing there. I remember laughing when Lost came out and everyone was obsessing over it.