S35.E13: Million Dollar Night

[ljenkins782]

17 minutes ago, henripootel said:

EDIT 2: 

His last time out was the original Ben-like 'good luck spree', but hey, he won so he's done.  I remember reading at the time (not sure if it was well sourced or scurrilous rumor) that Rob only agreed to come back with conditions, namely a substantial appearance fee and food sneaked to him regularly.  He was a good sport but I hear he didn't really relish the experience anymore nor being away from his family, and who would?  Still think that, when Probst decides he'd had enough, Rob is the first person they'd ask to replace him.  It won't be good but they may try.

I've actually always been a Rob fan, but there is no way he should be even considered for a 5th time on this show. He won, his wife won, they've gotten enough. 

I was about to say that I don't think anyone should get a 5th turn, but I'd have to amend that for Cirie. If Rob got a "good luck spree," Cirie's arguably had the worst "bad luck spree" of any good player over her 4 chances. Losing a fire challenge at 4th after battling her way from being in danger at the very first boot and the second (and even being in that fire challenge at all because Aras really shouldn't have let her have that chance to stay, it could have cost him the million), then getting screwed by the surprise final 2 in Micronesia, which I don't know if was ever confirmed to have been changed last minute, but it sure seemed that way after the medevacs and quits, and then the ultimate bullshit exit in Game Changers where she never got a vote against her but had to leave because 5 other people held advantages or idols. Her only real failure was her early exit in HvVs. So she's the one person I would potentially root for a fifth time, otherwise I'm over the multiple returnee thing, especially for those who have already won. 

[Special K]

I prefer that winners not return, unless they do an all-winner season, which would be amazing, or unless your name is Sandra*. :)

ETA: * or Kim.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Special K

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

I prefer that winners not return, unless they do an all-winner season, which would be amazing, or unless your name is Sandra*. :)

ETA: * or Kim.

This. All of this.

1 hour ago, tessat said:

I'm just saying that in the end - all these shows do interfere with the results to a point ...

Exactly.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 10:45 PM, MissEwa said:

I don't think camera crews lead people to the idol so much as I think you could probably guage them to determine whether you were hot or cold. Go for a walk by yourself and the crew hangs back half-interested? Yeah, there's no idol there. If they're following right behind you, trying to get close ups? Different story. And while I'm sure they're told to keep that stuff discreet after a while with literally nothing else to do, I think savvy players would catch on. 

Production don't rig challenges so much as certain challenges naturally favour certain players. They probably try to keep it even but there's no denying some seasons have a run of balance challenges or throwing challenges or puzzles, which might indicate what kind of player production would like to win (and i fully believe they cast and work out challenges with at least a winner-type in mind - it would be bad for the game if ten burly strong dudes won in a row, they want a mix). 

It's all speculative though, because you can lead horses to water - by, say, engineering a season where there's a way back in after being voted out and no reward challenges so your players are never split into smaller groups where they can strategise - but they still have to do the drinking. 

I guess it's possible that people are literally followed every single time they leave the beach.  But we've seen many shots of a person leaving the beach at a distance, and no camera person in sight.  I think the camera people couldn't help but reveal things, unless they have no clue where the idols are.  They must hide it well enough that the other survivors don't figure it out and jump and follow the camera person following their tribe mate.  I'm a suspicious person by nature, so I'd probably be watching the camera people as much as my fellow contestants.

[Superpole2000]

I am disappointed. Idols add interest to the game, but too many idols can ruin a game just as easily (Russell Hantz!). One of the major problems with idols is that searching for them is boring TV. I think they can work quite well in the first half of the game, but in the latter half, I just think they dominate the outcome too much. Ben was a pretty poor player in many respects, so I was sorry to see the abundance of idols save him again and again. He did show great determination, but I just didn't think it made for a good game or good TV.

But I will give this episode credit for having one of the best final tribal councils. I liked the different sections, the conversational style, the balanced jury, and the amount of time devoted to it. This is a much better format than the original question-answer format where the jury desperately tried one last time to assert their short-lived fame with their "My question is, I'm awesome!" questions.

[Minney]

Just finished catching up on the season last night.  Can see I'm not the only one that feels the overload of idols and the "twist" were put in place to ensure Ben making it to F3 and ultimately winning.  I try to not get caught up in favorites but watch for who is playing the best game.  When a player gets to F3 it should be because they made the right moves to get there even when they didn't have numbers on their side.  Ben was given the red carpet to F3, IMO.  Then he smartly used the opportunity to tell his "hero" story and really, who isn't going to vote for the veteran?  I would have too... but I don't think he deserved the title of sole survivor.  Maybe it was because we were binge watching the finale 5 episodes but it all felt very manipulated.  

[MerBearHou]

I just watched the finale again.  On a 2nd viewing, I found Chrissy even more rehearsed, insufferable, and insincere in her calculated “I got to know details about each of you”.   She clearly is smart and filed away all of that info like one of her actuarial tables, not because she genuinely cared to bond with her fellow Survivors.  So glad all over again that Ben won. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by MerBearHou

[NutMeg]

I finally watched the finale yesterday, after a long Christmas break.

As usual, I enjoyed watching the show, although I felt bad for Chrissy and Devon about the advantage that was anything but.

But overall, having three people I could see winning and would have been happy to see winning in the final 5 was pretty good, and I don't mind the winner, even if he wouldn't have been my top choice.

The challenges were more interesting than usual. I thought Ben saying that this was not a game but "a job" was the winner's quote, as I remember Sandra saying it a couple of times (and no one else that I can remember).

I haven't processed yet how I feel about this new way to go from 4 to 3. I didn't like it here but I'm sure I could have liked it in some other configurations. One thing is sure though, it's that it will change the makeup of the F4 if it's kept for longer than another season.

One of my favourite moment during FTC was Desi's stopping Chrissy and Ryan getting at each other's throat by reminding them (paraphrasing) that this was just a game and not to forget real life feelings / their friendship outside the game. I thought it was a lovely moment, and overall I thought this was a good and fair jury.  

[Whimsy]

Bunches of posts have been removed for being off-topic. The Amazing Race is off-topic. Your personal airport experiences are off-topic. Keep your posts related to this season finale episode. Not the overall season perspective and not other, unrelated, topics. 

[ByaNose]

I just rewatched the season again. I pretty much just went to each Immunity Challenge & Tribal Councils And, I still agree that the first half was slow. After, the merge it picked up. The one thing I found interesting was the part where Chrissy read the Immunity Adavantage. Just before she reads the part about the fire making challenge it breaks for a confessional of her explaining it. I got the impression that she let out a few curse words when she read that the first time. She was probably like, “WTF?????”. I still think the twist sucks and she was killed was screwed. Apparently, the next cast cast was told of the twist beforehand. I’m curious if it’s talked about much on air or if it’s just mentioned in the roundabout way of strategy. 

[plurie]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 10:15 PM, ByaNose said:

 Apparently, the next cast cast was told of the twist beforehand. I’m curious if it’s talked about much on air or if it’s just mentioned in the roundabout way of strategy. 

I would be fine with that. As long as they know ahead of time, they can tailor their strategy around it. It was the way it was employed that bothered me, not the actual "twist" itself.

[ByaNose]

1 hour ago, plurie said:

I would be fine with that. As long as they know ahead of time, they can tailor their strategy around it. It was the way it was employed that bothered me, not the actual "twist" itself.

I do wonder why they told them in advance though. I think they shot Season 35 & 36 back to back. Of course, this was before 35 aired and the mixed reaction they received. Did they know in advance what the reaction might be? Why tell 36 if they didn't tell 35? Yes, I know I'm asking too many questions. LOL!!!

[KimberStormer]

The answer that presents itself most obviously is, they made it up on the spot to save Ben and then tried to cover their asses by re-using it the next season.  If they really didn't make it up on the fly to save Ben, then there's no reason not to tell them ahead of time like they did with S36.

[cooksdelight]

On 12/26/2017 at 8:28 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I guess it's possible that people are literally followed every single time they leave the beach

They are, followed by a camera person and a sound person, 24/7. Each person has a tag team following them.

[Lamb18]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 10:01 AM, amazingracefan said:

Probst's  point about the third person at the final having to earn their place I think does make some sense.  Like on Big Brother the final challenge winner brings one person with them, but in Survivor there's 3 in the final so the other place has to be decided.  To just let two automatically go to the final is less drama.

My feeling is that people earn a final three spot by not being voted out. You have to hook up with the right people, win immunity, etc., and just play so that you don't get voted out.  There's some luck but also skill  in reading a situation and knowing how to vote to your best advantage.

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 11:19 AM, Special K said:

Like maybe open a coconut?  Yeah, I like the idea of it being something else.  How about braiding palm fronds?!?  The he-men would plotz!

Maybe Vince, a No-Collar coconut vendor from season 30, had made it that far in his season they would have introduced a coconut-opening twist just for him.

[TVFan1]

If they get rid of this "twist" and go back to voting people out at final 4 on Season 37 and on, then that is more proof to me that they wanted to save Ben from being voted out.

[Lamb18]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 7:02 PM, Hanahope said:

 It’s the fact that a brand new idol was put into the game at F5 to get someone to F4.

This is what's bugged me: How did Ben know that there was another idol that could be played at final 4 after he played his idol at final 5? Usually the cutoff for idol play is final 5. I recently rewatched Cagayan and remember Tony saying that his special idol could only be played up to final 5, but he fooled the others into thinking it was final 4. I don't remember any new idols being put into play at final 4 or being able to be used at final 4 in the past,  unless it was just a very recent season, one that is post-San Juan del Sur (which I finished rewatching last night).

Footnote on posting about the winner in the episode thread: I've been rewatching past seasons and how the videos are structured, the winner is announced at the end of the finale video. Then the next video is the reunion.

[peachmangosteen]

But Ben didn't get/play an idol at F4. It was at F5 and idols have been good until F5 in every F3 season, I believe.

[Hanahope]

16 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

But Ben didn't get/play an idol at F4. It was at F5 and idols have been good until F5 in every F3 season, I believe.

Idols may have "been good to play" up through F5, but this is the first time an idol was played at F6, then a brand new idol was put back into the game for F5.  

Last season, for example, all the idols/advantages were played at F6, but no new idol was put into the game for F5 or F4, so the players actually got to do two more votes to determine the final contestants.  In this season, the put back in an idol after F6, so it could be used at F5, and then that person would still have the ability to stay in the game through F4 to F3 because of the new fire making challenge.  It completely took away the contestants' ability to do one last clean vote before the final.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Hanahope

[Lamb18]

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 5:03 PM, peachmangosteen said:

But Ben didn't get/play an idol at F4. It was at F5 and idols have been good until F5 in every F3 season, I believe.

That's right, he had immunity at final 4, didn't he?

22 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Idols may have "been good to play" up through F5, but this is the first time an idol was played at F6, then a brand new idol was put back into the game for F5.  

I guess my question is still valid, then: how did Ben know to look for an idol when in previous seasons there weren't new idols put back in at final 5? The others can't be blamed for not looking when on previous seasons there weren't any idols to look for at that point.

[fishcakes]

22 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

I guess my question is still valid, then: how did Ben know to look for an idol when in previous seasons there weren't new idols put back in at final 5? The others can't be blamed for not looking when on previous seasons there weren't any idols to look for at that point.

We don't know that idols have never been put back into play after F6 but before F5. In Cambodia, both Wentworth and Jeremy played idols at F6, and Kelly looked for but didn't find an idol before F5 and instead made a fake one. The fact that she didn't find one doesn't mean one wasn't rehidden. In Game Changers, aaaaalll the idols were played at F6 and, while it's true that no idols were found after that, we don't know if that's because one wasn't rehidden, because no one looked, or because people did look but didn't find it. Also, in MvGenX, Ken played the legacy advantage of immunity at F6 and the next day before F5, Adam looked for and found another hidden idol, which he played at F5. Several people here have said that they never rehide an idol after F6, but I've never seen anything on the show itself or in anyone's interviews to indicate that that's accurate.

Edited January 10, 2018 by fishcakes

[ProfCrash]

Tony had his idol at the final five and claimed that he could play it at the final four. There have long been idols at final five. We are not shown the many hours that people are out looking for the idols and fail to find it. We know that they are doing so, Ben flat out said that Mike was right behind him on two occasions when Ben found the idol. The show is not going to show it all that often because it would be boring. We are going to see the really desperate person looking for it and not finding it or finding it. We are not going to see someone like Mike looking for it because it is not deemed to be interesting. Mike was in the power alliance, he should not have needed the idol. Not to mention, TPTB probably love that people bitch about all the lazy folks not looking for the idol because it is a talking point. If they showed more people looking and not finding the idol, TPTB lose a talking point.

[Special K]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

TPTB probably love that people bitch about all the lazy folks not looking for the idol because it is a talking point. If they showed more people looking and not finding the idol, TPTB lose a talking point.

You're probably right.  If they wanted, though, they could do a Secret Scene montage of people idol-searching and not finding it.  Just to show that people are.