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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes


ArctisTor
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1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

Oh, I guess I just meant recently. I know historically shows were discovered in later seasons a lot, but it doesn't seem like this is something that happens too often anymore, especially for the CW.

Do you count five years as recently?

My mentioning Dynasty as a historical example was hardly meant to suggest that Dynasty is the one and only time this happened - I just brought it up because we're also discussing its reboot in this thread. In the last five years, ABC, NBC, CBS, Bravo, the Cartoon Network, AMC and HBO have all had shows that doubled in the ratings (and also, MSNBC and CNN in the past year).  It happens. It just very rarely happens on the CW - unless we're counting the Arrowverse crossover episodes last season, and I don't think the ratings actually doubled for any of the shows there, just improved, I think the last time may have been back in season three of Buffy, before the CW was even the CW. 

Anyway, assuming that Riverdale's numbers don't adjust and Supernatural and Arrow stay more or less steady from last season, that may leave Riverdale the CW's second highest show for the week. Which is great for Riverdale, but not so great for the CW - because this is also a huge drop for the CW's second highest show. Last year, that was Supergirl, with 1.1/3.01 viewers, and the year before that, Arrow, with 1.1/2.67.   

This year? .8/2.30. 

Kinda fortunate that the CW network gets most of its revenue from post-views.

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2 hours ago, quarks said:

Meanwhile, not to sound like a broken record on this, but is there any possible way that I can get you guys to follow the lead of the CW, Fox, and ABC (and Showtime, Netflix, and several others) and stop paying attention to the demo and focus on total viewers, a better indicator of future revenue, instead? 

I think this is a paradigm shift that is difficult for laypeople to get used to, since we've always been told that the demos matter more than total viewers. Not to mention most people still don't know how ratings work. I mean you still have people threatening to not watch live thinking they affect ratings even though they're not Nielsen households. 

Edited by lemotomato
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Who knew that Joe and Iris were Lutheran?  Or maybe it's Barry who is Lutheran and they picked the church for the groom.

It must be cold in Vancouver since everyone is wearing big coats when they're rehearsing or standing around.

2 hours ago, quarks said:

Meanwhile, not to sound like a broken record on this, but is there any possible way that I can get you guys to follow the lead of the CW, Fox, and ABC (and Showtime, Netflix, and several others) and stop paying attention to the demo and focus on total viewers, a better indicator of future revenue, instead? 

It's going to be especially bad because it's opposite football.

The demo never made any sense as an indicator and especially now when between college loans, unpaid internships, short term contracts and starting families, young adults have the least amount of money of any group to buy the advertisers' products.

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4 hours ago, Angel12d said:

 I love Felicity's dress. It's simple and elegant and she looks beautiful. Kinda wish she wasn't wearing her glasses but it makes me wonder if they're going to do another "Oh they look so much alike!" scene between her and Kara, who is also wearing her glasses and a soft pink dress. ?

Oh, that's a possibility! My mind went to "don't let anyone upstage the bride so let's put the gorgeous maid of honor in glasses because that would totally frump her down" argument I've heard at many, many weddings. 

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Just now, SmallScreenDiva said:

Oh, that's a possibility! My mind went to "don't let anyone upstage the bride so let's put the gorgeous maid of honor in glasses because that would totally frump her down" argument I've heard at many, many weddings. 

Haha, well, they're nothing if not predictable. Can't have a crossover without Diggle throwing up and/or being freaked out by time travel/aliens. Have to mention the Kara/Felicity similarity. Iris might even mention how hot Oliver is. I swear they have a checklist. ?

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1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

Iris might even mention how hot Oliver is.

At least we know this won't happen during the double wedding. They wouldn't do that. (But imagine Iris' vows: "Barry, I love you. Even though your arms are nowhere near as big as Oliver's. Or Diggle's, here on my other side. What was I saying? Oh, right. Barry, I'm marrying you.") 

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48 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Oh, that's a possibility! My mind went to "don't let anyone upstage the bride so let's put the gorgeous maid of honor in glasses because that would totally frump her down" argument I've heard at many, many weddings. 

Who the fuck is that mean to their loved ones at a wedding?! I made sure my girls were free to look as gorgeous as they wanted to be, and I'm no beauty queen.

Iris looks beautiful even in half-frenzied, shoot-now-or-lose-it pap shots, so I can only imagine how radiant she'll appear on the show. But because I used to frequent the Say Yes to the Dress forums (don't judge me), all I can think about are the hilariously snarky comments on the Pnina "stripper fairy" concoctions.

(Editor's Note: For the record, Iris does NOT look like a stripper fairy.)

Edited by Miss Dee
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I'm watching last night's South Park, and the beginning was Jimmy basically doing The Flash's monologue. Well, it was similar to all the Flarrowverse's beginning voice overs, but since Jimmy had super speed, I'll give the nod to The Flash. 

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1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

At least we know this won't happen during the double wedding. They wouldn't do that. (But imagine Iris' vows: "Barry, I love you. Even though your arms are nowhere near as big as Oliver's. Or Diggle's, here on my other side. What was I saying? Oh, right. Barry, I'm marrying you.") 

If she does, Felicity can always mention that she and Barry went on 1.5 dates and kissed to up the awkward factor. 

I figured Felicity is probably wearing glasses because it's her signature look and this is a crossover but could be any or no reason. 

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2 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Who the fuck is that mean to their loved ones at a wedding?! I made sure my girls were free to look as gorgeous as they wanted to be, and I'm no beauty queen.

A very good friend's mother tried to get her daughter to drop the MoH the night before the wedding because MoH turned up looking not like the "pudgy" high schooler she remembered. Only 2 other people heard the convo (me and another bridesmaid), fortunately MoH didn't. The bride stood her ground and civilly but firmly told her mother to back off. Then they didn't speak for 5 years.

I've seen the scenario play out several more times, but never from the bride. Mostly from "well-meaning" family members. 

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6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

A very good friend's mother tried to get her daughter to drop the MoH the night before the wedding because MoH turned up looking not like the "pudgy" high schooler she remembered. Only 2 other people heard the convo (me and another bridesmaid), fortunately MoH didn't. The bride stood her ground and civilly but firmly told her mother to back off. Then they didn't speak for 5 years.

I've seen the scenario play out several more times, but never from the bride. Mostly from "well-meaning" family members. 

Do you think Joe wouldn't let Barry ask Oliver and Diggle to be his groomsmen because their biceps would outshine him? 

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23 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Alex probably went to a bar, met and went home with Sara and shows up late while hung over. Kara gets mad at her, then Sara shows up and Alex is surprised to see her because she didn't know she was going to the wedding too. 

I wonder if we will get a rehearsal dinner so toasts and open bar pre-wedding (and thus a place for Sara and Alex to hook up)

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Press Releases for week four of the CW DC shows: (all from SpoilerTV.com)

SUPERGIRL

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“The Faithful” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, DV) (HDTV)
CHAD LOWE GUEST STARS — Kara (Melissa Benoist) investigates a secretive new group whose leader, Thomas Coville (guest star Chad Lowe), has a mysterious connection to Supergirl. Meanwhile, Samantha (Odette Annable) feels like she’s letting Ruby (guest star Emma Tremblay) down, and J’onn (David Harewood) confesses an old secret. Jesse Warn directed the episode written by Paula Yoo & Katie Rose Rogers (#304). Original airdate 10/30/2017.

THE FLASH

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“Elongated Journey Into Night” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, L) (HDTV)
TOM CAVANAGH DIRECTS; DANNY TREJO GUEST STARS AS BREACHER — Cisco (Carlos Valdes) is shocked when Gypsy’s (guest star Jessica Camacho) father, Breacher (guest star Danny Trejo), shows up on Earth-1. Breacher takes an immediate disliking to Cisco and decides to hunt him. Meanwhile, Barry (Grant Gustin) runs into his old nemesis, Ralph Dibny (guest star Hartley Sawyer). Tom Cavanagh directed the episode written by Sterling Gates & Thomas Pound (#404). Original airdate 10/31/2017.

LEGENDS OF TOMORROW

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“Phone Home” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)
HELPING ONE OF THEIR OWN — The Legends learn that Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh) will die because they broke time, causing them to race back to 1988 to try and save his life.  When they arrive, they are surprised to learn that young Ray Palmer has befriended a time-displaced baby Dominator putting him in harm’s way with the government and the Dominator’s mother.  New to the ship and missions, Zari (Tala Ashe) must find her place and learn to trust the team.  Meanwhile, Stein (Victor Garber) begins working on a secret project on the ship which makes Rory (Dominic Purcell) and Jax (Franz Drameh) suspicious.   Caity Lotz, Maisie Richardson-Sellers and Nick Zano also star.  Kevin Mock directed the episode written by Matthew Maala (#304).  Original airdate 10/31/2017.

ARROW

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"Reversal” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)
BLACK SIREN STRIKES AGAIN — Just as Oliver (Stephen Amell) starts to get things in order, Black Siren (Katie Cassidy) launches another attack on the citizens of Star City. Gregory Smith directed the episode written by Sarah Tarkoff & Emilio Ortega Aldrich (#604).  Original airdate 11/2/2017.

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1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Press Releases for week four of the CW DC shows: (all from SpoilerTV.com)

SUPERGIRL

THE FLASH

LEGENDS OF TOMORROW

ARROW

What is up with these basic Arrow synopsis? 

My rankings of the 4 shows premieres:

Arrow

Flash

Supergirl

Legends of Tomorrow.

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I haven't seen Legends yet but I enjoyed Flash and Supergirl way more than Arrow.

I like the supporting cast on Flash and SG a WHOLE lot more than on Arrow and we were bombarded with a bunch of trash tonight with characters I didn't care for taking centre stage.

Olicity shippy goodness was AWESOME though and my little heart is squeeeeing happily on the shippy front! 

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2 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I don't often get mad with these shows, but I have to admit, that press release really pissed me off. But I'm tired and it's late and I don't have the energy to rant anymore.

oh noes which one upset you?

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1 minute ago, Miss Dee said:

The Legends one. Let's just say given the premise, I find the description of one character's actions very unbelievable.

Is it the Ray stuff?

There there *gives you a shoulder pat* 

Might not be that bad! Ray can NEVER be bad! 

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@Mellowyellow, you're so sweet and sunny, I'm gonna start calling you Haircut.

Nah, Ray won't be bad. But I hate that Mick will be chilling on the ship when you know he goes chasing after Ray whenever Ray's in danger. And you know it's all in service of Nate and their "broship".

Oh well, I've escaped hating on the Arrowverse so far...I suppose my time had to come sooner or later.

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2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

New straw poll, inspired by @Primal Slayer. :)

What was your favorite season premiere?

And while I can't put that in the poll, how would you rank them?

----

I myself have only seen Legends at this point, so.....

I'm going to have to pick none of the above.  I was disappointed by every premiere.  Looking forward to better from every show next week.  

I guess though my default then kicks in so Arrow wins because I got a few lovely Oliciyt scenes at least so that's worth more than anything the other shows could offer.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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Tonight's Gotham was really good.  Ben McKenzie wrote it and I can only say "MORE PLEASE".  I'm already loving Ra's since Siddig showed up but Ben's characterization made him even better.  I love, and I mean LOVE, Sofia Falcone.  She is a great addition to the show.  I never considered her to be a possible character but, now that she's here, I am curious if they'll bring in Alberto or if that may be too many Falcones.  Alex was a great one off tragic character.  I felt for him throughout the episode and especially when Ra's slit his throat.  And Bruce not being prepared with backup plans for his backup plans was a nice touch.  Fast forward ten years and he'll be able to save another Alex.  But he's not there yet and the guilt will eat at him but also make him strive to be better.  It's going to be awesome.

In lighter news, Victor Zsasz is the Character I Never Knew I Could Love This Much.  He solves riddles!  He likes rap!  He dances to rap!  He'll judge you if you don't buy your fiance a decent ring!  And his grin of delight in these comedy moments might be my favorite thing about this season.  And there's so much to love.  Oh, and a personal peeve of mine is the TV thing where shows act like no two character have the same name, except for kids named for parents who then get called something else anyway.  I went to school with dozens of Katies, Emilys, Elizabeths, Marys, Johns, and Stevens, of varying spellings yet TV acts like such a thing couldn't possibly happen.  Well, on Gotham, not only did we have Victor Zsasz and Victor Fries in the same episode, both got to be called by their names and it was even a chuckle moment when Pengy had to clarify to Zsasz that he meant Fries.  Hallelujah!  

Back to Ben, he wrote a tight episode with a good plot and good characterizations.  He didn't sacrifice one in service to the other and was consistent with where the show and characters have been while setting up where they're going. 

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@Miss Dee I remember in S2 they shoved Nate with Ray a lot and it annoyed me as well. But then in ep 11 (I think!) they had a lovely ep with Ray, Mick and the Rat. I know it's disheartening but you may well get a very good Ray and Mick episode down the track even if Ray and Nate is the preferred friendship for now!

And someone on the board will cheer you up if it all goes to sh@t! Hehe I speak from experience as I had many a meltdown during S5 and had to be consoled ALL the time! Twas a rough season! 

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1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

Tonight's Gotham was really good.  Ben McKenzie wrote it and I can only say "MORE PLEASE".  I'm already loving Ra's since Siddig showed up but Ben's characterization made him even better.  I love, and I mean LOVE, Sofia Falcone.  She is a great addition to the show.  I never considered her to be a possible character but, now that she's here, I am curious if they'll bring in Alberto or if that may be too many Falcones.  Alex was a great one off tragic character.  I felt for him throughout the episode and especially when Ra's slit his throat.  And Bruce not being prepared with backup plans for his backup plans was a nice touch.  Fast forward ten years and he'll be able to save another Alex.  But he's not there yet and the guilt will eat at him but also make him strive to be better.  It's going to be awesome.

In lighter news, Victor Zsasz is the Character I Never Knew I Could Love This Much.  He solves riddles!  He likes rap!  He dances to rap!  He'll judge you if you don't buy your fiance a decent ring!  And his grin of delight in these comedy moments might be my favorite thing about this season.  And there's so much to love.  Oh, and a personal peeve of mine is the TV thing where shows act like no two character have the same name, except for kids named for parents who then get called something else anyway.  I went to school with dozens of Katies, Emilys, Elizabeths, Marys, Johns, and Stevens, of varying spellings yet TV acts like such a thing couldn't possibly happen.  Well, on Gotham, not only did we have Victor Zsasz and Victor Fries in the same episode, both got to be called by their names and it was even a chuckle moment when Pengy had to clarify to Zsasz that he meant Fries.  Hallelujah!  

Back to Ben, he wrote a tight episode with a good plot and good characterizations.  He didn't sacrifice one in service to the other and was consistent with where the show and characters have been while setting up where they're going. 

Do anyone  know if weird creepy man-dog was from the comics or from his imagination? 

Edited by BkWurm1
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4 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Tonight's Gotham was really good.  Ben McKenzie wrote it and I can only say "MORE PLEASE".  I'm already loving Ra's since Siddig showed up but Ben's characterization made him even better.  I love, and I mean LOVE, Sofia Falcone.  She is a great addition to the show.  I never considered her to be a possible character but, now that she's here, I am curious if they'll bring in Alberto or if that may be too many Falcones.  Alex was a great one off tragic character.  I felt for him throughout the episode and especially when Ra's slit his throat.  And Bruce not being prepared with backup plans for his backup plans was a nice touch.  Fast forward ten years and he'll be able to save another Alex.  But he's not there yet and the guilt will eat at him but also make him strive to be better.  It's going to be awesome.

In lighter news, Victor Zsasz is the Character I Never Knew I Could Love This Much.  He solves riddles!  He likes rap!  He dances to rap!  He'll judge you if you don't buy your fiance a decent ring!  And his grin of delight in these comedy moments might be my favorite thing about this season.  And there's so much to love.  Oh, and a personal peeve of mine is the TV thing where shows act like no two character have the same name, except for kids named for parents who then get called something else anyway.  I went to school with dozens of Katies, Emilys, Elizabeths, Marys, Johns, and Stevens, of varying spellings yet TV acts like such a thing couldn't possibly happen.  Well, on Gotham, not only did we have Victor Zsasz and Victor Fries in the same episode, both got to be called by their names and it was even a chuckle moment when Pengy had to clarify to Zsasz that he meant Fries.  Hallelujah!  

Back to Ben, he wrote a tight episode with a good plot and good characterizations.  He didn't sacrifice one in service to the other and was consistent with where the show and characters have been while setting up where they're going. 

Yeah, Ben did a fantastic job, not only with the other characters, but with his own. The producers should listen to his input more because I didn't want to punch Jim once until the end, and that's only because I'm exhausted with his love life.

Alexander Siddig was a revelation as Ra's. He was everything you could ever want in the character and them some. Watching young Bruce tangling with him was both disturbing and terrifying. I felt he was in real jeopardy if not physically (because he has a destiny after all), then emotionally and psychologically. Gotham has always done a spectacular job casting and writing for their iconic Rogue's Gallery and Ra's is no exception.

It does bring me back to how Arrow managed to screw up their own Ra's so badly. I've always assumed they couldn't afford someone like Siddig or Oded Fehr because they blew all  their cash on BR, but that doesn't explain the writing. How could such self-proclaimed comic fanboys get it so wrong on such a well known character? It's been a couple of years, and I'm still shaking my head over it. I hope they watched this episode so they can truly grasp how badly they failed. They need to know because DC keeps giving them important characters, and they keep half-assing them.

Anyway, episodes like this are the reason Gotham is my favorite comic book show. It's got it's flaws (most of them revolve around Jim Gordon and his stupidity and his awful, awful love life), but it knows who all the other characters are, and who they're suppose to be; and it can tell wild and completely unpredictable stories about them.

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I really didn't expect them to go there with the kid.  But it also made perfect sense with the circumstances so it didn't upset me like when other characters get fridged (No, he wasn't a love interest but he was being set up as a friend and someone learning from Bruce and his death is really going to be a push going forward for the show to emotionally mine for Bruce)

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Press releases for Supergirl, Flash, LOT and Arrow

Quote

“The Faithful” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, DV) (HDTV)

CHAD LOWE GUEST STARS — Kara (Melissa Benoist) investigates a secretive new group whose leader, Thomas Coville (guest star Chad Lowe), has a mysterious connection to Supergirl. Meanwhile, Samantha (Odette Annable) feels like she’s letting Ruby (guest star Emma Tremblay) down, and J’onn (David Harewood) confesses an old secret. Jesse Warn directed the episode written by Paula Yoo & Katie Rose Rogers (#304). Original airdate 10/30/2017. 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/10/supergirl-episode-304-faithful-press.html

Quote

“Elongated Journey Into Night” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, L) (HDTV)

TOM CAVANAGH DIRECTS; DANNY TREJO GUEST STARS AS BREACHER — Cisco (Carlos Valdes) is shocked when Gypsy’s (guest star Jessica Camacho) father, Breacher (guest star Danny Trejo), shows up on Earth-1. Breacher takes an immediate disliking to Cisco and decides to hunt him. Meanwhile, Barry (Grant Gustin) runs into his old nemesis, Ralph Dibny (guest star Hartley Sawyer). Tom Cavanagh directed the episode written by Sterling Gates & Thomas Pound (#404). Original airdate 10/31/2017.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/10/the-flash-episode-404-elongated-journey.html

Quote

 

“Phone Home” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

HELPING ONE OF THEIR OWN — The Legends learn that Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh) will die because they broke time, causing them to race back to 1988 to try and save his life.  When they arrive, they are surprised to learn that young Ray Palmer has befriended a time-displaced baby Dominator putting him in harm’s way with the government and the Dominator’s mother.  New to the ship and missions, Zari (Tala Ashe) must find her place and learn to trust the team.  Meanwhile, Stein (Victor Garber) begins working on a secret project on the ship which makes Rory (Dominic Purcell) and Jax (Franz Drameh) suspicious.   Caity Lotz, Maisie Richardson-Sellers and Nick Zano also star.  Kevin Mock directed the episode written by Matthew Maala (#304).  Original airdate 10/31/2017.
 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/10/legends-of-tomorrow-episode-304-phone.html

Quote

 

“Reversal” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

BLACK SIREN STRIKES AGAIN — Just as Oliver (Stephen Amell) starts to get things in order, Black Siren (Katie Cassidy) launches another attack on the citizens of Star City. Gregory Smith directed the episode written by Sarah Tarkoff & Emilio Ortega Aldrich (#604).  Original airdate 11/2/2017.
 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/10/arrow-episode-604-reversal-press-release.html

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9 Things To Expect from Arrow Season 6 (Now That Oliver Has His S--t Together)
by LAUREN PIESTER | Thu, Oct 12, 2017 2:29 PM
http://www.eonline.com/news/885249/9-things-to-expect-from-arrow-season-6-now-that-oliver-has-his-s-t-together

Quote

9. You Can't Judge the Crossover By Its Cover...But You Also Kind of Can

There are aspects to this season's big four-show crossover that are going to sound a little shockingly topical at first, but that's not the intention. 

"I'll say that there are going to be things that people are going to look at and go, oh, that's ripped from the headlines!" Guggenheim said. "Our intention truly was to recapture some of that magic that we felt as kids reading the annual Justice League/Justice Society crossovers that DC used to do. For example, the cover image that we published, that's an homage to Justice League of America 207, which was actually the 20th anniversary crossover between the Justice League and the Justice Society. They would do it every year, the same way we do our little Arrow-verse crossover every year. So we were just looking to tell a really big fun cool story, so yeah, it would feel to me describing it as being topical would be a little bit false advertising." 

Edited by tv echo
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I am a little jealous they got 2 EW covers this hiatus. 

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Oh wow @ Supernatural.  I think CW is both happy and sad about how their non-DC shows are performing and how their DC shows are underperforming. 

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So, pending adjustments, the ranks are, for the demo:

  1. The Flash 1.1
  2. Riverdale 0.8
  3. Supernatural 0.7
  4. Arrow/Legends 0.6
  5. Supergirl 0.5
  6. Valor/Dynasty 0.3

And for total viewers:

  1. The Flash 2.84 million
  2. Riverdale 2.34 million
  3. Supernatural 2.10 million
  4. Supergirl 1.87 million
  5. Legends 1.72 million
  6. Arrow 1.57 million
  7. Dynasty 1.27 million
  8. Valor 1.20 million

Interesting that Supergirl is the only one whose total viewership changes the relative ranking.  Indicating that its audience skews older, or perhaps younger, than the demo for the other shows?  I'm not sure.

Edited by Starfish35
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I'm assuming this is for the crossover? LoT filming notice for Oct. 16-17 at 1502 Granville St. Quoted from filming notice: 

-- "We will be filming several daytime stunt fight sequences on the 1500 block of Granville Street, underneath the bridge. The scenes will revolve around our heroes battling an invading army of German Soldiers."

-- "Filming a montage scene of an invading army walking along the 500 block of Beach Crescent toward Granville St. We will be using heavy gof for this scene."

-- "Filming more stunt fight scenes under the bridge."

DL-ic01U8AAdQBo.jpg 
https://twitter.com/cuckoologic/status/918631472814178304

Edited by tv echo
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Full credit to Supernatural there, for pulling off a third place finish in their 13th season.

That said - this is a pretty big slip in the CW's top four ranked shows from last season to the top four ranked shows of this season.

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