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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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quarks

quarks

3 hours ago, WildcardC said:

Maybe on Fox, it wouldnt last on the big 3 networks. 

I think the use of "Big 3" is pretty outdated.  Yes, Fox is a newer network, and yes, they usually do only two hours of primetime programming before switching to local news, unlike CBS, NBC and ABC. But otherwise, Fox reaches the same number of households as CBS, NBC and ABC, and since it started to broadcast the NFL back in the 1990s, it's often had a higher viewership/demographic share than ABC and NBC. Last season, for instance, Fox beat ABC in overall viewership and the demo.  "Big 4" seems to be the more accurate and more frequently used term.

Back on topic, Berlanti, I mean no disrespect to Black Lightning, but I can't help but think of another considerably better known black DC superhero WHOSE CONTINUITY YOU'VE BEEN TEASING ON ARROWVERSE SHOWS SINCE SEASON ONE OF ARROW.  Geesh.

#GreenLanternRules #ButThisFerrisAirStuffIsKillingMe

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CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)

I still see Fox as the 4th network, unless I see a consistent record of it being 3rd or higher. Its no big deal , I just feel they are more lenient with shows and considering their crop of shows they could probably handle a superhero show better. Anyway cable networks could be an option for this project.

Yes Hal Jordan (white guy) is the Green Lantern thats been foreshadowed, not John Stewart. 

Edited by WildcardC
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Delphi

Delphi

Strange,  I've never considered FOX lenient with any of their programming.   They have some shows that they've let go forever,  like Bones or House,  but I've never had the impression that they were afraid to shut down under performing properties. 

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CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)

Maybe lately, they have kept Sleepy Hollow despite declining quality/ratings yearly, kept Gotham which has similar ratings as Supergirl. Scream Queens still there. OK after checking http://tvseriesfinale.com/ I think ABC is getting a little more lenient too. Since they are Disney, they probably wont be interest in anything DC related.

Looks like CBS wont be needing this BL project too Firewall - Vigilante Procedural Drama from The Mentalist Creator Receives Put Pilot at CBS

Edited by WildcardC
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quarks

quarks

57 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

@quarks i think you need to accept that you will never get Green Lantern in the Arrow-verse.  They will just continue to tease use with Ferris Air.

Besides would you really want to see what THESE guys do with Green Lantern...wasn't the movie bad enough? 

As correct as you are, I refuse to give up all hope!

 

53 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

Wasn't Arrow teasing the Hal Jordan version of Green Lantern instead of the John Steward one? Only time they talk about John Stewart's GL is when it has do with Diggle. 

This is also very true, but the way I look at it, a universe that has Hal Jordan must have John Stewart, right?

42 minutes ago, WildcardC said:

I still see Fox as the 4th network, unless I see a consistent record of it being 3rd or higher. Its no big deal , I just feel they are more lenient with shows and considering their crop of shows they could probably handle a superhero show better. Anyway cable networks could be an option for this project.

Fox led in the demo from 2004 to 2012 - eight years as number one, beating the other three networks.  Since 2001, they have been at least number 3 or higher in overall viewership for every television season except for 2013-2014 and 2014-2015. In 2013-2014, despite being the lowest in viewership, they were the second overall in the demo.  Last season, they were back to beating ABC again - despite not having the Superbowl. I'd call that fairly consistent.

Regarding Fox's cancellations: last season, they cancelled American Idol, Bordertown (after only 13 episodes), Cooper Barrett's Guide to Surviving Life (Fox didn't even bother to air all of the episodes), Grandfathered, The Grinder, Houdini and Doyle (after only 10 episodes), Second Chance (after only 11 episodes), and Minority Report (also after only 10 episodes.) Three of the eight cancelled shows were genre shows, and all three genre shows were cancelled before they even aired a full half season (13 episodes.) 

As far as which network would handle a superhero show better - I think that's pretty debatable, apart from "probably not NBC," given that NBC dropped Constantine after one season, and the ratings/viewers there were never good. By the end of last season, Flash was beating Gotham in ratings/viewership numbers, and Supergirl was beating both of them even after losing half its viewership, which doesn't really suggest that Fox is the best network for superhero shows.  

Having said that, Fox can pay more, and Gotham often just looks better, and doesn't constantly send its characters to the same warehouse week after week, so there's that consideration as well.

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CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)
33 minutes ago, Chaser said:

That sounds a bit like Leverage.

Or Scorpion, I just remembered CBS has got that show

 

Quote

Fox led in the demo from 2004 to 2012 - eight years as number one, beating the other three networks. Since 2001, they have been at least number 3 or higher in overall viewership for every television season except for 2013-2014 and 2014-2015.

Fair enough. Perhaps my view of them will change now.

Quote

Regarding Fox's cancellations: last season, they cancelled American Idol, Bordertown (after only 13 episodes), Cooper Barrett's Guide to Surviving Life (Fox didn't even bother to air all of the episodes), Grandfathered, The Grinder, Houdini and Doyle

Most of these were freshmen flops, I dont blame them. Its not too much to ask that a new show does at least a 1.0 average.

Edited by WildcardC
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quarks

quarks

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Wasn't Fox also the network that infamously mishandled Firefly?

Yep, and cancelled Brisco County, Jr. after just one season.

I mean, ok, that last one was twenty years ago and I should be over it by now but NEVER FORGET, FOX. NEVER FORGET. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

5 minutes ago, quarks said:

Yep, and cancelled Brisco County, Jr. after just one season.

I mean, ok, that last one was twenty years ago and I should be over it by now but NEVER FORGET, FOX. NEVER FORGET. 

I'll never get over that. ? Brisco County Jr was perfection 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
12 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Dark Angel, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, Dollhouse, and more recently Almost Human - Fox doesn't have a good track record with genre shows.

Man they totally screwed over Almost Human, they messed up the episode airing order and then cancelled it.  They never gave that show a break and, it was pretty good, it certainly had potential. 

Edited by Morrigan2575
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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)
32 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

They fucked up Sleepy Hollow so much, I cried.  Ugh. XFiles is the only thing they didn't fuck up

I would argue Fox messed up X-Files by keeping it on way past the point it should have been cancelled. They should have let it go after David Duchovny insisted on leaving.

Edited by lemotomato
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

6 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Dark Angel, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, Dollhouse, and more recently Almost Human - Fox doesn't have a good track record with genre shows.

 

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Man they totally screwed over Almost Human, they messed up the episode airing order and then cancelled it.  They never gave that show a break and, it was pretty good, it certainly had potential. 

I was bummed about Almost Human as well.  And The Grinder was satiric perfection.  They had an obscure sorta sci-fi show called Second Chance this season that just kept getting better and better both in it's mythology and the relationships between the father and son, but IMO didn't get much exposure and unsurprisingly didn't immediately take off and so was pretty much right away dumped to Friday nights.  Fox is good about taking a chance on interesting concepts, but usually way too quick to pull the trigger if they dont grab big ratings. 

I think Gotham sticks around for reasons that go beyond ratings.  Which is good because - unpopular opinion - I think it's a great show.   

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I love genre shows, but Second Chance and Almost Human both put me off simply because they centered on male/male relationships which I'm sick of. I mean, Almost Human had basically a "generic girlfriend" character, and a boss character - no other women in the main cast. And Second Chance's premise just felt icky to me for some reason -  I think it had some old lech getting a young body. I didn't watch it even despite generally liking the lead actor.

I think FOX just has terrible management nowadays. Most of their new shows suck, and they really should have just canceled Sleepy Hollow instead of all that drama.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Supergirl: How Tyler Hoechlin landed the role of Superman
BY NATALIE ABRAMS Posted September 2 2016 — 1:30 PM EDT
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/09/02/supergirl-tyler-hoechlin-superman

Quote

“Honestly, it was the strangest thing — there wasn’t an audition,” Hoechlin tells EW. “I had a great meeting with [executive producers] Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg [in June]. I had been told that the meeting would have something to do with Supergirl, but nothing really specific. Halfway through, they brought up the idea of introducing Superman to the show and asked if I’d be interested. I said, ‘Yeah, absolutely. I’m obviously a fan.’ I believe that was on a Monday. On Friday, we got a call with the offer, so it was very quick. It was very flattering, and I wish every job came about that way.”
*  *  *
For his part, Hoechlin was first introduced to the Man of Steel as a kid watching Dean Cain on Lois & Clark with his family, but he counts Christopher Reeve as his all-time favorite portrayal of the chiseled hero. However, during the meeting with the Supergirl bosses, Hoechlin says all were on the same page about doing their own version of Kal-El, the cousin of Supergirl (Melissa Benoist). “Obviously [we want to] honor the tradition that is the character without really emulating anything that somebody else has done before,” Hoechlin says, noting he avoided watching old Superman films after being cast. “I didn’t want to have any temptation to imitate.”

“It’s Superman as I think he was intended to be,” Hoechlin says of his version of the Supes, “which is just an incredible symbol of hope to kids that they can do anything, that they can be good people, and that good people can triumph over evil. You don’t have to be dark and brooding and always in this state of masculine toughness. He sits in that very hopeful and optimistic place that Kara tends to be in.”

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

So it's like Romeo & Juliet on Krypton?...

‘Krypton’: Georgina Campbell Cast As Female Lead In Syfy Superman Prequel
by Nellie Andreeva •  September 2, 2016 12:51pm
http://deadline.com/2016/09/krypton-georgina-campbell-cast-female-lead-syfy-superman-prequel-1201812873/

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EXCLUSIVE: British actress Georgina Campbell (After Hours) has landed the female lead of Lyta Zod in Krypton, Syfy’s Superman prequel pilot from David S. Goyer and Warner Horizon Television.

Based on the DC Comics characters created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, Krypton is set two generations before the destruction of the legendary Man of Steel’s home planet. It follows Superman’s grandfather Seg-El — whose House of El was ostracized and shamed — as he fights to redeem his family’s honor and save his beloved world from chaos.

Campbell’s Lyta Zod is a member of Krypton’s military caste and the daughter of a general, Alura Zod. Lyta Zod serves as a cadet — and has also been having a clandestine, forbidden romance with Seg-El (not cast yet).

Edited by tv echo
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bychance

bychance

On August 29, 2016 at 2:52 PM, hogwash said:

The movies are gonna ruin Deathstroke too? Yikes. I finally got around to watching Suicide Squad (I managed to avoid BvS but I got outvoted this time around) for this weekend. It wasn't as bad as I expected. I hated their Amanda Waller. What an incredible waste of Viola Davis. An extremely violent and pragmatic authority figure should be a piece of cake for this ~universe~ so I thought for sure they had Amanda Waller in the bag. Nope. She was dumb and her plan(??) was stupid. I'm saying this as someone who sat through an Amanda Waller who tried to bomb a US city because of 15-20 super soldiers. There was audible groaning in my theater when she popped up (out of FREAKING NOWHERE!) in the end. I wish someone had taken one for the team and killed her. I have no idea what she or Enchantress was trying to do or why the squad was formed or what they was deployed for. Everyone except Harley, Deadshot, Rick Flagg was useless and a waste of screentime. Ike Barinholtz(?)'s guard character was more memorable and interesting than most of the named characters. Joker sucked. Most of the fight scenes were eh. But it was better than Man of Steel. So 6.5/10, give Katanna back to Arrow. 

0/3 for DC movies, huh? All the Arrowverse shows have massive issues (and I'm still watching for some reason) but it's kinda funny that despite all the $$$ and logistics the movies can't do much better. I hope Wonderwoman isn't too rough. I'll probably get roped into watching that too at some point. 

Deathstroke was already kind of ruined. The motivation was flawed and his one season 3 episode appearance was pointless  

The League of Assassins were brought in by Sara to fight the mirakuru super soldiers so it there were hundreds. 

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MarkHB

MarkHB

On 9/1/2016 at 1:29 PM, Velocity23 said:

The Arrow/Flash/Supergirl/Legends of Tomorrow exec producer is working with the Akils to develop Black Lightning, a drama about one of DC Comics' first major African-American superheroes. (The character debuted in 1977 and was created by Tony Isabella and Trevor Von Eeden.)

Given their similar flavors, I wonder if this could be their "what replaces Arrow when that one's done" plan....

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Dish Network, Tribune End 12-Week Blackout With Carriage Deal

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/dish-network-tribune-blackout-ends-12-weeks-retransmission-consent-1201851883/

Quote

The 12-week shutdown affected Dish subscribers in 33 markets, including seven of the top 10 markets, and about 7 million subscribers that received WGN America. Dish has about 13.8 million subscribers but only about 5 million are in Tribune station markets.

The standoff between the sides dragged on throughout the summer, raising the possibility that Dish subscribers in Tribune markets would miss the new seasons of CW’s primetime hits including “The Flash.” Tribune owns CW affiliates in New York, Los Angeles, Dallas, Washington, D.C., Houston and other large markets.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Video of Flash panel with CP, RC, TS and RA from HVFF-San Jose on Aug. 27 or 28....

Heroes and Villains Fan Fest San Jose Video #4
Published on Sep 4, 2016, by steven alvarez

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I came across this tweet and thought it was interesting. Zack Stentz was a screenwriter for The Flash, X-Men: First Class and Thor (among other things) and also a producer for Fringe and Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles.  He's now a consulting producer for Season 3 of The Flash...

That tweet sent me investigating the three people mentioned...

Emily Nussbaum is a TV critic for The New Yorker and has not voiced any opinion about the Arrowverse as far as I know, although she was mentioned in a May 2016 article titled "TV Criticism So White and Male" in The Clyde Fitch Report, which also mentioned Flash and Arrow: 

Quote

Note also the somewhat flabbergasted recent coverage of current network success story The CW. In another unintentionally amusing observation, Vulture critic Josef Adalian noted that The CW had finally started, “making shows people cared about.” This is a confusing statement about a network whose programming has survived on extremely loyal and passionate fan bases not much smaller than those of some low-rated critical darlings.

That is unless you assume that Adalian means that The CW has started producing shows that the right people care about. It isn’t a surprise that the most consistent, positive critical attention I have seen The CW receive centers around Arrow and The Flash, shows built around white male protagonists. This ignores the fact that, of the eleven shows renewed for this year’s season on The CW, only four have female leads, a disappointing development for a network that used to be heavily associated with shows starring and aimed at young women. Then again, next year’s lineup, with the addition of Supergirl, No Tomorrow and Frequency, looks better in terms of gender balance, but two of those three shows have not yet proven themselves with either viewers or critics.

Maureen (Mo) Ryan is a TV critic for Variety and one of the co-hosts for the Talking TV with Ryan & Ryan podcast, which has reviewed Arrow/Flash in the past (I believe). She used to write for The Huffington Post, including this 2013-14 article titled "'Arrow' (And The Flash) Hit The Target", which included these comments:

Quote

It's hard not to think that "Arrow" message boards will be in a tizzy after Wednesday's episode: Gustin's scenes with Emily Bett Rickards, who plays tech genius and Oliver Queen confidante Felicity Smoak, throw off a lot of sparks. But Rickards, "Arrow's" crucial secret weapon, also has great chemistry with star Stephen Amell and with David Ramsey, who plays John Diggle (Oliver's bodyguard and the third member of the show's core trio - both Diggle and Felicity know about Oliver's crime-fighting alter ego). I cannot in good conscience tell "Digglicity" 'shippers, "Olicity" advocates or newly minted "Flash-licity" fans not to write all three kinds of fanfic, because the world surely needs them all.

That said, one of the great things about "Arrow" is that Felicity - originally meant to be a minor recurring character - is an important person in her own right; she's not just Tech Whiz or someone's future girlfriend. As terrifically played by Rickards, Felicity is a smart, confident, klutzy but fiercely loyal woman with great fashion sense and a moral backbone as strong as one of Oliver's arrows. Without the central emotional bonds among Felicity, Diggle and Oliver to ground the aspiring hero's journey, "Arrow" would be a lot more disposable. What "Arrow" understands is that even those who are exceptional and often admirable - heroes, in other words - are still capable of disappointing other people, experiencing doubt and having unrealistic goals.
*  *  *
... I also hope "Arrow" finds a compelling purpose for Katie Cassidy, who has been great on other shows but whose by-the-numbers lawyer character seems even more expendable this season.

To pivot away from the generally enjoyable Starling City soap opera of it all, here's a fact that should be generally acknowledged: "Arrow" is one of the best-directed shows on TV...
*  *  *
When talking about the show to friends, I often described "Arrow" as a live-action motion comic, and I mean that as a compliment....

BlackGirlNerds.com published an article titled "Why We Don’t Need Black Canary: Arrow’s Reality vs Comic Book Mythos" earlier this year (the headline is self-explanatory, the article is a good read).

Edited by tv echo
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

From a Katie Cassidy interview that @tv echo posted in the Social Media thread:

Quote

I am going to be on all three shows this next coming season, but I'm not sure in what capacity.

All THREE shows.  Not Supergirl.   I know it's a minor point, but it's annoyed me that so many TV news sites (with the exception of TVLine) have insisted that she's going to be on Supergirl this coming season.   

ETA: link to interview: http://www.theartsguild.com/2016/09/06/katie-cassidy-arrow-laurel-lance-fan-expo-2016/

Edited by Starfish35
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Belinea

Belinea

(edited)
2 hours ago, bijoux said:

Oliver is a busy beaver, but he looks goood.

Just a question: Are they using Oliver to get more people to tune in? Is that a false assumption? If that were the case  I don't know how many people he'd be able to pull in but maybe they should use SuperBarry for more eyeballs then... 

Edited by Belinea
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

15 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Just a question: Are they using Oliver to get more people to tune in? Is that a false assumption? If that were the case  I don't know how many people he'd be able to pull in but maybe they should use SuperBarry for more eyeballs then... 

Yes, they are using Oliver to pull in more viewers and it may have a small impact. Last year Star City 2046 got a bump of around 200k viewers but, they left right after.

105 - 2.25

106 - 2.47 (Old Oliver Episode) 

107 - 2.28 

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catrox14

catrox14

Gods, what is their love affair with Bamford? His action sequences suck. The shaky cam is terrible way to film action scenes. WTF? Maybe he'll just rack up enough directing cred to leave the Arrowverse and go make shitty action movies and leave Arrow to better directors. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Yeah, so far the policy of hiring women and non-white men has been pretty pathetic. 6 episodes of each Flash-Arrow-LOT has been shot so far.

Flash = 2 non-white dude directors: Armen V. Kevorkian, who's Armenian, but also, he's the owner of the VFX house they use up in Vancouver, so they promoted from the inside instead of hiring out a minority talent + C. Kim Miles, no women.

Arrow = 1 woman, Laura Belsey, no POC men.

LOT = 1 non-white dude, Kevin Tancharoen [who imo is a legit talented director who needs to get better gigs], no women.

Supergirl is up to 6 eps too. Rachel Talalay directed 203. I can't find director info for 202. The other eps -- 3 were directed by Glen Winter, 1 by another white dude.



Edit: About a month or so ago, Lexi Alexander posted a series of tweets about female directors not wanting to go back to certain shows that had frat boy crews, and that they would warn other female directors to avoid those shows. She's deleted all the tweets now [she deletes all her tweets every few weeks], but I totally got an impression one of the shows she was talking about was Arrow. "Frat boy crew" does fit Arrow to a T.

Edited by dtissagirl
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

The Flash has also had Kim Miles (male POC) direct an episode.

Oops, I accidentally credited Kevin Smith with his ep. in my notes here. Smith is directing 7, Kim Miles directed 305. Will edit to correct, thanks.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Just now, Trini said:

Also Millicent Shelton (female POC), but I'm 100% sure (because this is the only source):


They hire out all directors for the entire season around June-July, so she's probably scheduled for a later ep. I'm going by episodes in the can because those are sure things. Sometimes directors beg off. Antonio Negret was scheduled for a second ep of Arrow last season but got out of it to direct a movie. They replaced him with BamBam.

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