Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

Barry found out Oliver was the Arrow when Felicity pulls him in to save Olivers life. If things are reset and Barry never goes to SC then Oliver dies in that episode.

They could easily fix that by giving Felicity an epiphany when she sees the rat poison in the lair. Girl is brilliant so it's not far off she'd know random things like that.  

[Sakura12]

I think they would just go with someone else saved Oliver that day. 

[RussianRoulette]

9 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Barry found out Oliver was the Arrow when Felicity pulls him in to save Olivers life. If things are reset and Barry never goes to SC then Oliver dies in that episode.

Yes,  but at that point Barry didn't have his superpowers yet. he was in a hurry to head back to CC in order to watch the particle accelerator go live. I would say the superpowers were introduced later on - during the summer of UST?

ETA: just grasping at straws here. This entire plot makes absolutely no logical sense. It's baffling, can't wrap my mind around it.

Edited May 25, 2016 by RussianRoulette

[AyChihuahua]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

For Arrow, Barry isn't obsessed with freaky things, doesn't go to SC to investigate Mirakuru break-in, doesn't meet TA and isn't there to save Oliver from the blood clot (or whatever) 

Barry was also the reason they figured out where Cyrus was likely to be (Barry found traces of sugar --> sugar refinery --> sugar refinery truck --> reports of that truck involved in theft of blood --> Oliver fought him, got sample of his blood on the arrow --> found the ketamine in the blood --> figured he'd be after more ketamine in large quantities --> ARGUS drug warehouse --> fight there --> stabbed with coagulant). So no Barry could easily mean no coagulant and no need for Barry to save Oliver with anticoagulant. Felicity would have eventually tracked him down, but it probably wouldn't have gone down the same way. 

[Chaser]

Is BA going to remember the original timeline? Is he going to use that knowledge to manipulate the lives of his friends? I'm thinking specifically about Iris. Cause that's terrible and gross and I can see it happening. 

[dtissagirl]

15 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Is BA going to remember the original timeline? Is he going to use that knowledge to manipulate the lives of his friends? I'm thinking specifically about Iris. Cause that's terrible and gross and I can see it happening. 

The problem is there are two Barrys going on here. Is grown up Barry who just saved his mother gonna go back to the future? Or does he go the time remnant way and dies/disappears, so kid Barry grows up with his mother from that point on, and has no idea his life was changed?

Time travel is never not confusing.

[nksarmi]

Ok help me here. Did Barry kill Thawne or just knock him out?

Edited May 25, 2016 by nksarmi

[dtissagirl]

9 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

Ok help me here. Did Barry kill Thawne or just knock him out?

It's unclear.

[nksarmi]

I was so pissed at the end, I wasn't paying attention. However, if Thawne is alive and escaped while Barry is cooing over his mom than all Barry changed is that his mom is alive and his dad doesn't go to prison. That doesn't mean that all the stuff Thawne did - killing Harrison Wells, setting of the particle accelerator, etc... - didn't happen.

So if most of the events of Arrow season two and Flash season one happened, they could go really crazy and tell us Wally is the one who became the Flash, not Barry. But that would probably mean a VERY quick resolution since I think that would piss off fans.

Or they could show us basically the same show with Barry's parents still dead (because Time wants to happen per LoT). Like maybe Thawne killed Barry's mom in season one and Zoom took our dear old dad in season two so he's still an adult orphan in season three just with different memories? They could say that Iris and Barry have been dating for ages but Joe hates him (my favorite option - I love Jesse Martin but I'm tired of the Joe/Barry dynamic). They could have Iris hate Barry for reasons - and maybe Iris and Joe find Wally sooner in life without Barry around (I know I'm being mean but whatever - Barry pissed me off with his selfishness).

I mean I honestly expect that if Thawne lives - most of season one at least goes as it did in the first place. I guess what I expect to happen is that Barry changed his two most important relationships - Joe and Iris - and that will be the source of everything going wrong in his reset life. He has to learn to be grateful for what life gave him (Joe and Iris) instead of being pissed about what it took away and that's why he ultimately has to change it back. But after that, they better stop going back to this plot point because it's really f-ing annoying.

If this is how they do it - they might be able to get away with saying there is no ripple effect on Arrow and LoT. Because let's face it - if the particle accelerator doesn't go off as it already did - do we even HAVE Firestorm? Do Cold and Heatwave ever HAVE their guns? I mean, it's just way TOO much to erase the continuity of all the other shows. They have to keep this confined somehow.

[Actionmage]

Quote

From that we also have no Thawn as Wells,

Not exactly. S1 Thawne-Wells came back and accelerated Barry's Flash timeline via making the particle accelerator sooner in Earth-1's timeline. We might have had this with an older Barry, but then an older Barry would presumably not keep trying to save his mom to the detriment of the timeline.

[dtissagirl]

The problem is they're doing time travel for dummies. If mom and dad live happily ever after, how much does that change Barry's life? Does Barry become a CSI? If Thawne does his shit anyway, where is Barry when the particle accelerator explodes then? If he's not in his lab because he's not a CSI, does he get different powers because the circumstances are different? They made a whole deal about your meta power being related to the environment you were in at the time of the explosion.

This kind of thing is what I don't think this specific set of writers is competent enough to tackle.

Edited May 25, 2016 by dtissagirl

[kismet]

If BA resets the entire timeline from 2000, then isn't it possible that OQ never gets on the boat? So we never get the Arrow. Or is that something that time just wants to happen?

Maybe NK comes back sooner into FS life and now she is bad.

We could go full reset, which might be fun to watch for an episode or two, but I really don't want to watch it on Arrow. 

Although, if I could reset my life from 2000,  I would jump at the opportunity so maybe I'm just jealous I can't run fast enough to fix things.

SO as a storytelling device I can see how cool this must be for the Flash. I just think it makes Arrow powerless and dependent on the Flash for plot purposes and that is bullshit. 

[nksarmi]

2 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

The problem is they're doing time travel for dummies. If mom and dad live happily ever after, how much does that change Barry's life? Does Barry become a CSI? If Thawne does his shit anyway, where is Barry when the particle accelerator explodes then? If he's not in his lab because he's not a CSI, does he get different powers because the circumstances are different? They made a whole deal about your meta power being related to the environment you were in at the time of the explosion.

This kind of thing is what I don't think this specific set of writers is competent enough to tackle.

See since Barry became Flash when he mom was alive in the first timeline - I'm hoping that Thawne would ensure it still happened again. Because Barry is a blabbering moron, Thawne knows exactly who he needed to target and he said he was trying to kill Barry - not his mom (he only did that in a fit of rage if I recall correctly). So going from the end of the episode....

-Barry presumably knocks Thawne out but as he talking to his mom, Thawne comes to and runs out of the house.

-Rather than running after him, Barry returns to the future expecting sunshine and rainbows.

-What he discovers is that his parents died anyway (maybe Thawne did it - maybe a different bad guy - maybe a random car accident) but it happened later and he never bonded with Joe as his surrogate dad.

-Since they probably want the actor back, maybe much of season one happened the same way it did but Barry never discovered Thawne secret so now he has to deal with Thawne as RF in season three again (boring but possible).

-Maybe Barry also learns that either Eddie never died or Iris barely knows him because they didn't grow up together and lost touch after high school or something like that.

So Barry is sitting his butt in an alternate timeline where Caitlyn and Cisco still love Thawne and will never believe he's a bad guy and he's still lost his parents, and his two most important relationships (Joe and Iris) are trashed. That would be appropriate justice for f-ing around and keep the fallout limited to Flash. 

[Velocity23]

I dont think it should impact Arrow at least till we first met Barry.

[looptab]

Fucking Flash.

[Angel12d]

I said yesterday reading this thread was entertaining when you don't watch The Flash. Now it's just messy and confusing and I don't wike it.

I swear, if Arrow is changed because of something Barry did for his usual selfish reasons, I'ma flip out! Haha.

[kismet]

54 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I dont think it should impact Arrow at least till we first met Barry.

Not to sound argumentative, because I honestly am just trying to understand it.

But if all the earths are connected and BA just reset the entire timeline then it resets everything, no exceptions to the rule unless there is some magical forcefield protecting certain places & people. Which no offense that is a weak cop-out like the whole remnants.

Unless of course if only resets BA's timeline, people are saying he is stuck in his own paradox. SO it really is all about him then, which is just a whole other level of selfishness, that he changes the lives of everyone he cares about to make his life better. I guess its not as bad as changing the entire universe's lives. SO he is marginally better in douchery by his own standard/baseline.

So perhaps this year's crossover will be a rescue mission to find BA and bring him back? The Universe clearly needs BA at all times because he is the perfect Hero, who always makes the best decisions and runs really well. What would the Universe be without BA looking out for it.

[tarotx]

I'm officially weary of all comic related stuff after the Flash last night and the wtf comic Cap supporting Hydra stuff - this better be a late April fools! 

Edited May 25, 2016 by tarotx

[Sakura12]

The world would fall apart without Barry Allen...oh wait...that was his fault. 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

But if all the earths are connected and BA just reset the entire timeline then it resets everything, no exceptions to the rule unless there is some magical forcefield protecting certain places & people. Which no offense that is a weak cop-out like the whole remnants.

not really. logically it would only effect events in Barry's life in Central City which is completely separate from Oliver's life in Starling as one is not dependent upom the other. The only time it would really impact Arrow would be from the point of intersect, where Barry/Oliver meet, that would cause a deviation.

As for all of the Earths being connected yes/no. Earth 1 is the "main" reality but, it would only impact Barry's role in those Earth. For instance if Barry doesn't exist on Earth 3 because that's Jay Garick then any impact would be non existent to minimal  (at best).

[Starfish35]

But that's not how Flashpoint worked, is it? If this is Flashpoint, I mean.  I mean, I'm no comics expert, and maybe it was different in the comics, but I think the way they explained it in the animated movie (which I just watched a few days ago so my memory should be better than this) was that Barry saving his mom had an effect on time that rippled outward, changing things that happened even before his mom died, and that he had nothing to do with.  Like Bruce Wayne dying and Thomas Wayne becoming Batman, Aquaman's and Wonder Woman's affair which ended up causing a global war, Kal-El's pod landing in Metropolis instead of Smallville, etc. 

[bethy]

25 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

not really. logically it would only effect events in Barry's life in Central City which is completely separate from Oliver's life in Starling as one is not dependent upom the other. The only time it would really impact Arrow would be from the point of intersect, where Barry/Oliver meet, that would cause a deviation.

As for all of the Earths being connected yes/no. Earth 1 is the "main" reality but, it would only impact Barry's role in those Earth. For instance if Barry doesn't exist on Earth 3 because that's Jay Garick then any impact would be non existent to minimal  (at best).

But isn't the whole point of the whole "don't mess with the past" rule in time travel that we don't know how things intersect? Like maybe Nora Allen is in a car accident that delays the person who put the bomb (or whatever caused the accident) on Oliver's boat so the Gambit didn't go down, and Oliver never ended up on the island and so never became the Hood. 

[Chaser]

Barry Allen is the Leroy Jenkins of Flarrowverse.

[kismet]

30 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

not really. logically it would only effect events in Barry's life in Central City which is completely separate from Oliver's life in Starling as one is not dependent upom the other. The only time it would really impact Arrow would be from the point of intersect, where Barry/Oliver meet, that would cause a deviation.

As for all of the Earths being connected yes/no. Earth 1 is the "main" reality but, it would only impact Barry's role in those Earth. For instance if Barry doesn't exist on Earth 3 because that's Jay Garick then any impact would be non existent to minimal  (at best).

Thank You for the explanation. Last night, Flash made it seem like all the universes & timelines were dependent upon BA's actions, even if that made little sense. So I'm just gonna stop worrying about it then, because frankly at this point I don't care about BA's life. I'm sure it will work out for him. And so long as the Arrow writers have a similar understanding as yours, we in the Arrow world should be all set. Personally, I believe the Arrow writers are content to forget about what happens in CC as integral to their plot or timeline until crossover time. Basically, CC is the Arrow's Vegas, what happens in CC, stays in CC. I can deal with a few episodes of crossover whackery because of BA - beyond that the Flarrowverse writers are testing my patience & loyalty.

Edited May 25, 2016 by kismet

[SonofaBiscuit]

Why does Geoff Johns get so much praise for The Flash?  Isn't he responsible for the Flashpoint bullshit?  Maybe that whole storyline just played better in the comics.  In the show, however, Barry is for sure coming across as too stupid to live.  I've reached the point where I love crossover Barry (except for that one time with the BMD), but outside of that, he can just fuck off.

[Morrigan2575]

21 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

But that's not how Flashpoint worked, is it? If this is Flashpoint, I mean.  I mean, I'm no comics expert, and maybe it was different in the comics, but I think the way they explained it in the animated movie (which I just watched a few days ago so my memory should be better than this) was that Barry saving his mom had an effect on time that rippled outward, changing things that happened even before his mom died, and that he had nothing to do with.  Like Bruce Wayne dying and Thomas Wayne becoming Batman, Aquaman's and Wonder Woman's affair which ended up causing a global war, Kal-El's pod landing in Metropolis instead of Smallville, etc. 

yes but there was a very specific reason for that. they did it so that DC Comics could collapse they're massivly expanded multiverse, including the Vertigo Comics into a (semi) single DC52 Universe so they could simplify and relaunch the universe without all the baggage and retcons. Basically it gave them a semi fresh start.  They later did another multi-verse collapse (which actually made everything more confusing) which involved Darkseid destorying E2 and the heroes escaping to E1.   

I absolutely get what happened in Flashpoint but 1) these shows have never followed the comics 100% and 2) there are quite a few things they can't do unless they plan on totally shaking up Flash, Arrow, LoT and Supergirl.  So yes, while Flashpoint Paradox actually created ripples that effected all of the titles, i do not expect that to happen with The TV Shows.  the thing is Comics and comic readers are generally understanding of big crossover events, they happen pretty frequently because they usually result in massive sales boosts.  However, you really can't apply that to TV Shows, it probably wouldn't translate well to a TV viewing audience and I have a feeling the Network wouldn't like it very much.

[Starfish35]

I get that, I'm just saying - if it is Flashpoint, I don't know that we can make any arguments about what might or might not change, even if it doesn't affect the other shows.  They'll basically change whatever they want, whether or not it makes logical sense.  That's all I'm saying.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

29 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I get that, I'm just saying - if it is Flashpoint, I don't know that we can make any arguments about what might or might not change, even if it doesn't affect the other shows.  

And I've actually said that in a couple of different posts, that the writers will do whatever they want.

In my posts I've mostly been talking about what should happen based on the series of events we've seen on the show

Edited May 25, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[O D A]

Just jumping in here and giving my two cents on Flash finale. I don't think this event in Flash will affect Arrow in any important way. It is insane to think Arrow only audience to follow and accept any major changes that happened due to an event on Flash.

I think they are going to do a mini Flashpoint, their where the effects will be minimal. The first scene of season 3 would most probably be Barry waking up in a world where his mom is alive but everything else might be different. He would not have his speed and is just a CSI, his dad might have died, Joe and Iris don't know him, Iris is married to someone else, Cisco and Caitlin may not work at STAR labs etc etc. Also there could be some crisis in CC which he cannot prevent due to lack of speed. So he goes looking for Oliver.. don't know what we see there, something terrible I suppose, he replicates the lightning get his speed back, run back in time prevent himself from screwing everything up and returns back to an almost similar timeline but with minute differences like maybe Snart, Eobard Thawne or E1 Wells are alive (not all), Iris once again has no feelings for Barry (because let's be honest they won't put them together without any angst) or Caitlin having powers. Only Barry will know the truth and he will have to suffer for it. They already changed the timeline this season in the time wraiths episode with pied piper and it did not affect Arrow at all.

I personally think this was a good step because I was so dissatisfied by how they treated last season finale and season 2 premiere. They gave him a freaking medal when Eddie and Ronnie died to save the city which got torn up due to Barry's stupidity. Then his bad decisions continued through out the season with reopening the breach in a grand arrogant thinking of he can save the world. How may people died due to that. I like this time travel in season 2 finale much more better than season 1 because here he acted on grief and impulse where as in season 1 he deliberated and even after being warned several times he decided to act on it. Right now Barry is a selfish and stupid hero who just has no emotional control. He has regressed this season. But if they play this right and make him learn a lesson so that he would not do such things again I think this is worthwhile. The show needs to establish how selfish he was and he needs to loose something due to this. I hope we get a better Barry who is more balanced and think things through after this.

PS: New here. I made an id long back. Never posted here. Some of you might know me from spoiler tv.

[tv echo]

I am officially over The Flash. Barry's selfishness will probably result in another Flash Day.  

I am sick and tired of Arrow having to turn itself inside out to adjust to - not to mention set up - other shows in the shared universe that now includes superpowers and time travel.  

I am also sick and tired of the attitude that something's great just because it's in the comics.  The comics are not infallible and have tons of flaws.

Please keep Arrow far, far away from whatever happens on The Flash (or LoT for that matter).   Please remember that not every Arrow fan watches The Flash.

Edited May 25, 2016 by tv echo

[bethy]

If this redo on Flash ends up having a major impact - or even a minor impact - on Arrow, it makes me wonder if that is why SA seemed a little put out at the upfronts. Maybe he'd just been told that Flash was going to reset his show in some ways. It would be incredibly frustrating to be the launching show - often at the expense of your own show's storylines and characters - think that you're done with the spinoffs, and then have your story decisions still be dictated by other shows.

[FurryFury]

I'm willing to bet this will have zero influence on Arrow or LoT, other than crossovers. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, tarotx said:

I'm officially weary of all comic related stuff after the Flash last night and the wtf comic Cap supporting Hydra stuff - this better be a late April fools! 

Wait, what??? Captain America is supporting Hydra . NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO . He must running a long con. NOOO? WAT???

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, tarotx said:

I'm officially weary of all comic related stuff after the Flash last night and the wtf comic Cap supporting Hydra stuff - this better be a late April fools! 

Tell me about it, total WTF

[arjumand]

52 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I am officially over The Flash. Barry's selfishness will probably result in another Flash Day.  

I am sick and tired of Arrow having to turn itself inside out to adjust to - not to mention set up - other shows in the shared universe that now includes superpowers and time travel.  

I am also sick and tired of the attitude that something's great just because it's in the comics.  The comics are not infallible and have tons of flaws.

Please keep Arrow far, far away from whatever happens on The Flash (or LoT for that matter).   Please remember that not every Arrow fan watches The Flash.

SPOILERS FOR FLASHPOINT PARADOX

This season ender finally made me watch Flashpoint Paradox, and I'm so disappointed. Not because of the Barry fuck-up, that seems par for the course nowadays (but hey, let's make an action figure* out of him and name coffee after him). But because of the reason for the world-ending war between Aquaman and Wonder Woman.

It's a love triangle. No, really. No, really. Aquaman and Wonder Woman bang (the whole thing played in silent-movie format in Barry's head, so I honestly thought they were entering a marriage of convenience for alliance purposes - I had no idea Bikini Queen was supposed to be his wife), his wife gets jealous, tries to kill Wonder Woman, who seriously goes apeshit psycho killer on her, and that's it, the world is done.

I think I've just found the critical mass of sexist storylines. Holy shit. It's like we're ticking off a checklist - women are too emotional, can't think of the consequences of their actions, etc.

END SPOILERS FOR FLASHPOINT PARADOX

15 minutes ago, FurryFury said:

I'm willing to bet this will have zero influence on Arrow or LoT, other than crossovers. 

I'm desperately hoping this is true, because I don't want it. It seems like we're stuck in a time loop too, because weren't we saying all this last year? Now he's gone and done it, and you'd better not have fucked up Arrow, Barry.

[nksarmi]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

I get that, I'm just saying - if it is Flashpoint, I don't know that we can make any arguments about what might or might not change, even if it doesn't affect the other shows.  They'll basically change whatever they want, whether or not it makes logical sense.  That's all I'm saying.

Well but no, they really can't. As someone else pointed out, there are real world television/back stage issues these writers face that comic book writers just don't have to deal with. The writers of Flash can't do a real Flashpoint if the other shows don't agree. I know they are all kind of together, but they do have separate show runners to an extent and separate contracts, etc... Actors' contracts have to be worked out. Flash can't just decide to make changes that ripple through the other shows without clearing it with the other show runners, clearing it through contracts, and negotiating a whole bunch of crap beforehand.

And I would bet money, Flash hasn't even worked out how this cliffhanger is going to effect it's own show yet - let alone the rest of the Flarrowverse. At least not completely. My impression is that Arrow show runners currently have an idea of where they would like things to go in season five, but they will spend the next couple of months ironing that out before filming begins. There is NO way, Flash can do a real Flashpoint - I don't buy it.

I think this will be resolved in one of two ways - either Barry has created his own pocket universe and he will need to be rescued from it OR because Thawne is still alive, Barry saving his mom will actually have little impact on his life and it will all be bad. A big theme on both Arrow and LoT this season has been the need to accept the things you can't change (including the death of loved ones) while fighting for the good you can do. Barry doesn't seem to have learned that lesson yet.

[FurryFury]

At this point Barry picking up the Idiot Ball is honestly in character. I wasn't even surprised when he insisted on racing Zoom despite knowing it could destroy Earth-2's universe, and the team having enough of his idiocy was very entertaining. I'm not a big fan of Oliver Queen, and I've made no secret of it, but he never ever came close to the idiotic and selfish behavior of Barry Allen. That's just sad.

[tv echo]

Thanks for the Flashpoint Paradox summary, @arjumand.  Honestly, every time I read about another romantic storyline in the comics, it just irks me even more that there were complaints about romance on Arrow.

[FurryFury]

The complaints on romance on Arrow is awfully generic. I reserve the right to complain about the basic idea of your (original) endgame love interest being the girl you cheated on with her sister (and loads of other women), let alone the treatment of that storyline.

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, bethy said:

But isn't the whole point of the whole "don't mess with the past" rule in time travel that we don't know how things intersect? Like maybe Nora Allen is in a car accident that delays the person who put the bomb (or whatever caused the accident) on Oliver's boat so the Gambit didn't go down, and Oliver never ended up on the island and so never became the Hood. 

In theory, anything and everything could change. Also, this whole thing is dumb and makes my brain hurt. The one thing I know with certainty, though, is if there is one more rude, dismissive crack thrown at Oliver/Arrow on The Flash, I'mma drive down the street to Burbank, find The Flash writers and burn something down. My hero may be broody and overly willing to sacrifice himself at the drop of a hat, but at least he's never made decisions that could lead to the end of the universe. Twice!

[arjumand]

4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Thanks for the Flashpoint Paradox summary, @arjumand.  Honestly, every time I read about another romantic storyline in the comics, it just irks me even more that there were complaints about romance on Arrow.

You're welcome! I mean, there were other things going on, but none that made my eyes roll out of my head that much - except maybe Wonder Woman reborn as a literal  serial killer who butchers men (well, fine, she is an Amazon), women (WTF?) and children (I . . . I got nothing, y'all).

The only thing I want them to take from Flashpoint Paradox is the variation on the Serenity prayer that Barry's mum tells him - about accepting the things he can't change. Hear that, Barry? Just because you can travel in time, doesn't mean you should.

[hogwash]

So this totally explains why Zoom killed his dad. I can't think of a better way to get Barry to do something this horrendously stupid.

I'll guess we'll know more after Arrow tonight.

[nksarmi]

15 minutes ago, FurryFury said:

The complaints on romance on Arrow is awfully generic. I reserve the right to complain about the basic idea of your (original) endgame love interest being the girl you cheated on with her sister (and loads of other women), let alone the treatment of that storyline.

I think that might be a complaint about lack of romance - because really that story was just all kinds of ew. I think the complaints being referenced is how romance is ruining Arrow or how Felicity is dragging Oliver down or crap like that.

[nksarmi]

6 minutes ago, hogwash said:

So this totally explains why Zoom killed his dad. I can't think of a better way to get Barry to do something this horrendously stupid.

I'll guess we'll know more after Arrow tonight.

You mean other than just suggest it?

I mean this is the same guy who just this episode hears he needs the energy when I run to destroy ALL Earths so yea, I should totally run because if I beat him, I can stop him. Um wait a minute Barry - how do you figure beating him means he fails? I thought just running was enough.

And as it turns out - it was. So to save the day, they had to have his time remnant (a really dumb plot device that makes no sense) stop the fact that Zoom's plan had actually worked (with a sciency explanation I didn't even bother to listen to because really - why bother with this show?) and then had time wraiths (another dumb plot device) come kill (maybe?) the villain so Barry didn't have to and he could just stay the bestest hero who ever besteded.

But oh no - that's just not enough. The girl he has supposedly be in love with his whole life is saying "let me give you a reason to find joy" and what does our boy do? F-ck that! Hell no, I'm going to go back and time, save my mom, and risk changing everyone's life forever. So basically, "I love you Iris but all I can think about is myself, so I'm going to risk never having fallen in love with you to save my mom (from one point in time whereby I have no knowledge if she will die in another point in time between now and then) because I think that will bring me happiness rather than moving forward with a life with you."

Talk about your mad declarations of love! I was kind of moving onto an anti-ship for WestAllen last season and I wavered a bit this year, but now I am firmly on it again - Barry does not now, nor will he ever deserve Iris.  And not in the Oliver doesn't deserve Felicity kind of way (you know, he's kind of broken and she probably could find someone without so many issues). No, Barry doesn't deserve Iris in a it looks a lot like he was more in love with the idea of her than really her and she deserves someone who embraces her when she offers to make his world better not rejects her and goes back in time to do something that probably isn't meant to be done to begin with.

Shit - I'm really more pissed about this than I should be.

[tv echo]

Happy Birthday Greg Berlanti — thank you for these awesome ‘Berlanti-verse’ crossovers
BY LINDSAY MACDONALD AT 01:05 PM ON MAY 24, 2016
http://zap2it.com/2016/05/6-best-arrow-the-flash-supergirl-dc-legends-crossovers/

Quote

It all started with Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) and a mission to save the city, but now, four years later it’s turned into what is fondly dubbed “The Berlanti-verse.”

Greg Berlanti has pioneered an entire franchise of superhero shows on TV, and we’re pretty sure he actually secretly owns The CW at this point. On top of developing and producing more shows than we’re sure is physically possible, he also managed to cross those shows over multiple times a year. The man is a legend!
*  *  *
In celebration of this amazing creator’s 44th trip around the sun, we’re picking out our favorite “Arrow,” “The Flash,” “Supergirl” and “DC’s Legends of Tomorrow” crossovers and giving them a well-deserved round of applause.
*  *  *
(read more)

Edited May 25, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Man, I miss the old suit

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Man, I miss the old suit

okay, if Barry resetting the universe gives us Moira and the old suit....I might be on board

Edited May 25, 2016 by catrox14

[arjumand]

9 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Man, I miss the old suit

He looks so good in it. It's so flattering. What made me laugh is that his action figure (in the show itself - the one his son gets instead of The Flash) is still wearing the old suit. What's the matter, didn't Mattel (or whoever) get the memo? Or did they say - "Listen, it's bad enough that it has a tiny bow and tiny arrows - that weird shoulder body armor (which technically should have clothes under it) is going to get broken off and swallowed / shoved into tiny noses in three seconds. Keep your weird turtle suit - we're going Old Skool."

Edited May 26, 2016 by arjumand
edited to clarify

[Tallis]

14 minutes ago, arjumand said:

He looks so good in it. It's so flattering. What made me laugh is that his action figure is still wearing the old suit. What's the matter, didn't Mattel (or whoever) get the memo? Or did they say - "Listen, it's bad enough that it has a tiny bow and tiny arrows - that weird shoulder body armor (which technically should have clothes under it) is going to get broken off and swallowed / shoved into tiny noses in three seconds. Keep your weird turtle suit - we're going Old Skool."

There's a new Funko on the way in the new suit though. Also a couple of Speedys.

[lemotomato]

I hate to say it, but I might get this version of Hooded Green Arrow just because the eyes are black. I don't like the current one with the white eyes. White eyes are creepy.

Edited May 25, 2016 by lemotomato