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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
in Arrow

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Yeah, I know her scenes are gonna be in the Director's Cut*. I'm just amused that in a movie being so immensely panned by its characters being so flimsy constructed, an actual point of motivation [albeit problematic, but still] for one of the leads was cut from the wide release.

 

* I particularly love that a significant part of the damage control done pre-release was to tell everyone that there was gonna be a Director's Cut some time in the future. Bwahahahalolz again.

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Usually when you love a movie, you talk about how great it is and what you liked. Then adding a small list of flaws. All the BvS reviews (not from critics) are the same, they talk about all the things wrong with movie, editing, pacing, writing, plot holes, then say they still liked it. 

 

That's not a great way to sell a movie to people that haven't seen it yet. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Here are two opposing reviews of BvS - the first is very positive and the second is very negative [MAJOR SPOILERS!]...

 

The Critics Must Be Crazy: 'Batman V Superman' Is Fantastic
Erik Kain MAR 29, 2016 @ 07:00 AM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2016/03/29/the-critics-must-be-crazy-batman-v-superman-is-fantastic/#79a14831cc5d

 

What a Knightmare. My review of "Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice"
Kevin Powers March 26, 2016
http://comicodyssey.blogspot.com/2016/03/what-knightmare-my-review-of-batman-v.html

 

 

Also, here's Alan Sepinwall's positive review of the Supergirl/Flash crossover...

 

Review: 'Supergirl'/'Flash' teamup offers welcome, fun alternative to 'Batman v Superman'
By Alan Sepinwall | Tuesday, Mar 29, 2016 1:23 AM
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-supergirlflash-teamup-offers-welcome-fun-alternative-to-batman-v-superman

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Another MG interview and the full LoT panel at WonderCon on Mar. 27 (warning: spoilers) - some of MG's comments in both videos could be relevant to Arrow as well (also, near the end of the second video, they joked about grumbly Old Oliver with his 6-pack abs) ...

 

Marc Guggenheim Legends Of Tomorrow WonderCon 2016 Interview
Published on Mar 29, 2016, by Seat42F

 

WonderCon 2016 - Legends of Tomorrow Panel
Published on Mar 28, 2016, by Brian Strader

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow mention in this article about The Flash...

 

Kevin Smith Confirms Jay Mewes Will Appear On The Flash
Jamie Lovett- 03/29/20161 comments
http://comicbook.com/2016/03/29/kevin-smith-confirms-jay-mewes-will-appear-on-the-flash/

It turns out Mewes is a huge fan of the CW’s DC TV universe.
 

“Because he was my conduit to those shows,” Smith explained. “Arrow is his religion, dude. He almost came to visit me on Flash just so he could walk across the lot and look at the Arrow sets and sh*t, and dream about salmon laddering up and sh*t.”

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This critic thinks that Green Arrow should be part of the big screen DC universe...

 

The Movies/TV 8-Ball: Top 8 Wanted DC Extended Universe Films
March 29, 2016 | Posted by Jeremy Thomas
http://411mania.com/movies/the-moviestv-8-ball-top-8-wanted-dc-extended-universe-films/

#8: Green Arrow
*  *  *
First on the list is one that I’m actually rather surprised isn’t already on the schedule. That’s not to say that Green Arrow is as iconic a superhero as Wonder Woman, Batman, Superman or the Flash, but the goodwill and name recognition that the character has thanks to The CW’s Arrow makes one think that this should be showing up on the slate soon. Oliver Queen sits just underneath the real heavy hitters of the DC universe and has a significant history, including of course some important ties to the Justice League.
 

While there has been a certain level of intentional disconnect between DC’s television and film properties (except The Flash who is too big to ignore), DC and Warner Bros. have quite the opportunity here. The New 52 version of Ollie, which Arrow has done good work with, never came across particularly well and this could be a chance for the DCEU to dip further back to pre-New 52 stuff and go with the classic look and feel of the character. It’s a film that could defy the mega-budgets of the bigger films and offer a more down-to-earth DCEU entry.

Edited by tv echo
nksarmi

nksarmi

At this point I'm mostly shipping Kara with Barry. But, oddly, although I like Jimmy more than I like Winn, and was not at all a fan of Kara/Winn, for whatever reason this episode left me more in favor of Kara/Winn. Possibly because Winn thought Barry was cool, and Jimmy seemed threatened by a guy who stated from the outset that he was from another universe and wanted to return to it.

 

I so want Barry and Kara as a couple. I like Iris, but they are writing her and Barry all wrong so now I kind of want Barry to meet Kara on the Flarrowverse Earth or something.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

But, oddly, although I like Jimmy more than I like Winn, and was not at all a fan of Kara/Winn, for whatever reason this episode left me more in favor of Kara/Winn. Possibly because Winn thought Barry was cool, and Jimmy seemed threatened by a guy who stated from the outset that he was from another universe and wanted to return to it.

I actually was thinking the same thing while watching the episode. Kara/Winn (for me) is far more shippable now that he's no longer making an idiot of himself over her and they're just really good friends. While James/Kara.....*sigh* I don't know. I really want to like them because, unless something changes radically it's clear that this is the show's OTP. But I'm just not feeling it at all.

I do think James suffers from being "the love interest". It's hard to get a sense of who the character is outside of being Kara's crush object and the handy Superman exposition. They started something a little bit with him wanting to be back on the streets doing photojournalism instead of being behind a desk, but that didn't go very far.

  

What a Knightmare. My review of "Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice"

Kevin Powers March 26, 2016http://comicodyssey.blogspot.com/2016/03/what-knightmare-my-review-of-batman-v.html

If I had any doubts about seeing BvS, that settled it. Especially what he said about Captain America. There's a reason Steve is my favorite. (And as a sidenote, Steve being my favorite is one reason I'm so apprehensive about Civil War - I'm afraid it will damage Steve as a character for me).

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

I think Supergirl's strength is its platonic relationships but one little secret gem I think they have that could be cultivated over a long period of time (if they get several seasons) is actually Kara and Winn.  I know a lot of people didn't like him early on, but that's because his crush on her was too overdone.  Now that they had him admit his feelings and seemingly move on to just be her friend - they have a nice dynamic.  And there is something special about the guy who liked her before he knew she had super powers.  It would be very interesting and amazing subtle if Kara and Winn were indeed the planned OTP that will build through friendship over time and Kara and James is just the hunky ship stall. 

 

Starfish - my apprehension to Civil War is that it's going to ruin Tony as a character for me.  I kind of saw it starting in Age of Ultron with his amusing but slightly disturbing bantering with Banner about "being mad scientists."  I already like Steve more and I have a feeling all of the previews are being deceptive.  They make it look like Steve is wrong, but I have a feeling its Tony I'm going to end up disliking by the end of it. 

 

Edited by nksarmi
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I'm worried about both. More Steve, because Steve is my favorite, but Tony is, or was, my second favorite, and I don't want to end up outright disliking him either. AoU already damaged Tony as a character for me though, I'm sorry to say. I just....that movie. *sigh*

Edited by Starfish35
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kismet

kismet

Was coming here to post about the bump in ratings for Supergirl as well ~ Gosh Darnnit people like that Barry Allen character!! Or maybe its just Grant Gustin....

 

Either way if it it helps Supergirl that would be nice. I never really watch it live, so I don't know if episode was good or not. I hope it was and I hope the audience sticks around. However, if FLASH fans can sit through/enjoy that weekly show with all of its questionable writing and excessive cheesiness than they probably would enjoy Supergirl, even if the writing is on par for the shows the treatment of the characters on SG is definitely better than on F.

 

I think SG is still finding it's voice, so I would hate to see it not given the chance for a s2. I agree with @Nksarmi that the strength is in the platonic relationships. I think if they moved away from the romantic relationships for a little bit it would make for a stronger show. The characters could still date guest stars, but I think the rush to move Kara into semi-permanent romantic pairings with the main cast & multiple triangles has distracted the show.

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

The Critics Must Be Crazy: 'Batman V Superman' Is Fantastic

Erik Kain MAR 29, 2016 @ 07:00 AM

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2016/03/29/the-critics-must-be-crazy-batman-v-superman-is-fantastic/#79a14831cc5d

 

Oh, look!  It's Erik Kain! The guy who writes Arrow reviews that I think are so wrong that I sometimes question whether he watched the show.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Someone said something over in the Supergirl episode thread that made something click with me on why Kara/James isn't working for me. They said that Kara acts very young, which is why Kara/ James isn't meshing well. And that just made a lightbulb come on for me, because that's it exactly. It's the perceived maturity level difference between them that makes it not work for me. I like Kara, but she does come across as very young sometimes, especially in her CatCo wardrobe and hairstyles. Thinking back to the more self-assured Kara of Falling, before she went off the rails, that Kara I could see with James. This Kara is adorable, but often feels like she still has a lot of growing up to do. And I think that's where the Kara/James thing doesn't work for me. YMMV of course.

Edited by Starfish35
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Do we know the characters' ages? I have no idea, but watching the show I get Kara and Winn coded as 20 -- fresh out of college, in their first grown up jobs, and James and Lucy [and Alex] as 30 -- established careers, and also coded as "wiser" for having a lot more life experience that they use to ~mentor Kara. So yeah, I do get a whole generational gap between Kara and James.

 

It wouldn't stop me from 'shipping if I felt inclined, but I only 'ship one pairing per TV show, and I'm very into the wrong-badness of Alex/Maxwell Lord to care about the kindergarten kiddies.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Do we know the characters' ages? I have no idea, but watching the show I get Kara and Winn coded as 20 -- fresh out of college, in their first grown up jobs, and James and Lucy [and Alex] as 30 -- established careers, and also coded as "wiser" for having a lot more life experience that they use to ~mentor Kara. So yeah, I do get a whole generational gap between Kara and James

Yes! This is it exactly.

FurryFury

FurryFury

It wouldn't stop me from 'shipping if I felt inclined, but I only 'ship one pairing per TV show, and I'm very into the wrong-badness of Alex/Maxwell Lord to care about the kindergarten kiddies.

 

Me too. Can't imagine it ever happening without derailing Alex's character though. I think they've made a mistake by revealing Lord as too evil too soon (although his characterization is all over the place, so who knows).

 

As for James and Kara, I thought they had chemistry in the pilot but it has all but disappeared. The strongest reason why I despise this pairing is that James has no role on the show except for love interest. He's not an interesting character, hell, he barely has any personality. Some actors (say, Candice Patton) somehow manage to transcend this and be likable anyway (although I dislike Iris/Barry too, Earth-2 notwithstanding), but not this dude. No real presence or charisma.

 

I've heard that Supergirl had a Brainiac-something love interest in the comics, maybe they'll bring him on later? Or they could do any number of things with Cat's son who's MB's husband, at least they had chemistry.

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bettername2come

bettername2come

Not a direct reference, but they had the parallels to the first big Flash/Arrow crossover with the superhero handshake and Barry saying that they need to go into a situation with a Plan.

Also, he went around the perimeter first on the first confrontation with Silver Banshee and Livewire. Somewhere Oliver is tearing up with pride.

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

The problem for me, I think, is that Melissa Benoist is a lot like Grant Gustin.  She's cute and adorable, she has fantastic general chemistry with everyone, but there's not a whole lot of romantic chemistry to be found with anyone in particular.  I don't anti-ship her and Jimmy, but I also don't find myself paying more attention when the two share a scene.  It's just kind of *shrugs* whatever.  Plus, I kind of thought Jimmy was a bit of a dick for staying with Lucy, even though he seemed completely over it and didn't appear to want to make an effort to repair the relationship.  Geez, just man up and end things if you aren't interested anymore.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

There are a couple of reasons I'm not feeling it with James and Kara. I think the most important reason is because they have now shows us James and Lucy which actually DOES work. And until they recently switched gears - it kind of looked like they might keep the two of them together.  I feel like they tried to have their cake and eat it too here and it has created a misstep.  They want to keep both the actors around AND they want to make Lucy likable AND they want us to believe they can all work together AND etc....

 

-So they had Lucy fight to win James back and led us to believe he had real, deep feelings for her.

-Then they showed them in a nice, functioning relationship with history and painted them as two people who you could believe work together.

-Then they told us over and over again that James was really into Kara but it kind of comes off looking like he's fallen in love with Supergirl and honestly - when he was confronted by the less than perfect hero Kara turned into because of Red Kryptonite - he didn't seem all that interested until Barry showed up to be jealous of.

-Now they've had Lucy step out of the way and act as if she's not really all that hurt by their breakup - which seems to indicate the feelings weren't all that strong there after all.

 

So yea, it kind of feels all wrong and honestly, between the two characters - I've gradually come to like and be more interested in Lucy than James so I just don't care.  I think Lucy could have an interesting future on the show, but yea - they need to figure out something with James soon because he just doesn't do much for me as a love interest or anything else.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I don't know what Lucy's future on the show is. I actually started thinking today that she might be the season-ending casualty, if the show follows the pattern of Arrow/Flash. Arrow first season we had an Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle. Tommy dies. Flash first season had a Barry/Iris/Eddie triangle. Eddie dies. This season on Supergirl the main triangle was Kara/James/Lucy (with a side of Winn, but I think they've resolved that). So I'm wondering if they're going to continue the pattern by killing Lucy off.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

The problem is that in each of those deaths - viewers end up opposed to the remaining couple.  I mean there were others reasons to oppose Laurel and Oliver, but loads of people dislike Barry and Iris as well saying she was better off with Eddie. I really don't think a heroic death makes the remaining couple a very good ship so if they do kill Lucy - I think that might doom the Kara/James ship for sure lol.

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

I didn't know HISHE did reviews.  I'm actually looking forward to HISHE How BvS should have ended, complete with the Superhero Cafe skit.

 

Do you mean the Bronze Robin Statue that was in the trailers?  From what I've read on IMDb

That's a reference to Jason Todd being killed by the Joker in Death in the Family

So yeah, I guess if you didn't know that was a reference to Jason Todd and how angry/obsessive Batman became after the Joker paralyzed Batgirl and killed Robin #2, you probably wouldn't get his emotional state. Of course you shouldn't have to read the source material to understand a movie. A movie should stand on it's own and explain why things are so important to the characters

 

Yeah, that's probably what they were referring to. 

well the flash/supergirl crossover worked (for Supergirl), bumped her ratings up from a 1.3 series low to 1.7.  I wonder if it'll do anything for Flash tonight?

It's going to be hard to tell after last week's low unless it's a big bump (which I think is possible given the general positive reaction to him). 

 

I don't know what Lucy's future on the show is. I actually started thinking today that she might be the season-ending casualty, if the show follows the pattern of Arrow/Flash. Arrow first season we had an Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle. Tommy dies. Flash first season had a Barry/Iris/Eddie triangle. Eddie dies. This season on Supergirl the main triangle was Kara/James/Lucy (with a side of Winn, but I think they've resolved that). So I'm wondering if they're going to continue the pattern by killing Lucy off.

I was thinking either Lucy or Winn  but now Winn seems to have found his place so Lucy looks like a good option. Frankly, I don't care about her character at all and all she's been was interference without much depth.  I did believe in her and James' relationship but never really liked her, probably because when she came around is when James and Kara really started NOT working.  Before they were slowly getting friendly but then Lucy showed up and subtle went out the window.   

 

I think Kara is the kind of character that works better in a romantic relationship if she is the one being pursued rather than have her be the one VERY awkwardly going for it. Maybe that's why Cat's son worked.  He liked her, she liked him, they went out.  Winn was in the friendzone and she was oblivious until he was very blatant and then it was just uncomfortable.  (and he never really pursued, just wished for)  James is a whole other confusing mix of starting and stopping and not really seeing the reason why either would be into each other besides being good looking, noble people. 

 

Winn, Cat's son (Michael?), and Barry all clearly respond to cute and fun adorkable Kara, but I'm not sure what in Kara James is supposed to be responding to.   What draws him to her?  IS it just being a part of something important?  I get why Oliver fell for Felicity, she brought something special and missing into his life.  I understand that Barry has adored Iris since childhood.  But James and Kara don't change or challenge each other.  They don't have a history.  They don't show a different side of themselves and see something in the other that they want apart from the superficial.  They just don't have any reason behind them. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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Starfish35

Starfish35

The problem is that in each of those deaths - viewers end up opposed to the remaining couple. I mean there were others reasons to oppose Laurel and Oliver, but loads of people dislike Barry and Iris as well saying she was better off with Eddie. I really don't think a heroic death makes the remaining couple a very good ship so if they do kill Lucy - I think that might doom the Kara/James ship for sure lol.

I'm not sure whether it would. In Arrow, Oliver/Laurel had lots of problems that weren't related to the death, and one of those was the perceived betrayal of Tommy. That's not an issue between James and Lucy. They're over - he's not going back and forth between the two.

With Flash, you had Iris being torn between Barry and Eddie, and then making a very definitive choice for Eddie before he died. Again, not the same as Supergirl, because James/Lucy is pretty definitely over already. But I would argue that the bigger problem with Barry/Iris is the writers dropping it cold, at least up until the Earth-2 episodes.

I don't know that they will kill Lucy. Since she and James are already over, it might not be considered as dramatic. On the other hand, it might also be the reason for her increased role on the show, to give her death at the end more weight.

I'm just totally speculating here though. :)

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Would killing Lucy really help Kara's character growth?  Tommy's and Moira's deaths were both huge motivators for Oliver. Sara's death was a huge waste, especially since it brought Ra's al Ghul to the canvas.  Eddie died because Barry/Iris is the endgame ship (and IMO adult Eddie was a better match for Iris than adolescent Barry).

 

Kara has just lost Astra, as well as her birth parents and almost everyone else on Krypton. Does she need yet another death to motivate her?  Also, I'd hate for Kara and James to get together because Lucy died, and I'm not a fan of Lucy's.

 

Barry/Kara are fun, so are Barry/Felicity and Kara/Winn.  What do these pairings have in common?  They're all teases and like high school relationships (except for Barry/Kara which is about grade 8) rather than real ships.  Kara/Adam was cute for a couple of episodes.  I also like Barry/Patty and I thought Iris was doing so much better with Eddie than Barry.  come to think of it, I liked Winn/Siobhan too.

 

Now that Supergirl has got a second season, if Berlanti is serious about giving Kara a real relationship in this show  he needs to come up with something to blow up Kara/James and let James develop into a real character for a season. Then he can start teasing them again near the end of season 2.  I quite liked the James/Cat scenes because he's not someone Cat steamrolls over. When he picks up the phone for her, you know he's rolling his eyes and she knows it too.

 

 

I absolutely LOATHED Man of Steel, so I can believe the reviews. I am not even a Superman fan, but that movie decimated everything that made Superman Superman. Up to and including turning his adoptive parents into heartless assholes.

 

The fact that ZS is a big Ayn Rand fan makes his vision of Superman make sense. He's pretty much saying: "Dude, you got all this power, why you wanna put yourself out helping people?"

I guess we know how he'll be voting in the next election.  I hated Man of Steel too, although I did prefer the original coloured version.

 

In the 60+ since Ayn Rand published Atlas Shrugged, there has been a ton of research indicating that her philosophies would not make a better world.  There must be something in Snyder that draws him to that stuff.

 

The other comment that makes me rage was that people are stupid for thinking there could be any joy, hope or love in the movie because DC has always been darker than Marvel.  -Um, previously it was only in the Batman movies and the dark tone of the Superman is what everyone has been complaining about that for years! I have this feeling that when the Flash shows up he's going to be jaded and snarky rather than excited and quippy.

I remember the Christopher Reeve Superman, which was funny and sunshiney and fun to watch.  Adam West's Batman was pure camp.  The dark Batman only hit the movies with Tim Burton and even that wasn't so bad until the Nolan trilogy.  History does not begin when these people started to go to movie theatres.

 

Given the political state of the world, I think we could use some upbeat DC films again. There's a reason The Flash is doing to so well on TV.

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kismet

kismet

I really love Eddie. I miss him so much. Do we think it is possible for Barry to just get stuck in this timeline? I mean what is there for him to return to?

 

If Kendra, Sara and Ray can live in the 50s for a few years, I don't see why Barry can't have the rest of the season set back in time so we can keep Eddie.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

So what I'm hearing is, Barry is better in the crossovers than he is on a regular episode of Flash? 

 

He, like Oliver, has difficulty learning his lessons. 

 

But OMG @ him recording a goodbye message from Eddie for Iris. I'm weeping. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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kismet

kismet

For me I think Barry is better in the crossovers because I like the supporting cast on the other shows better than I like the Flash cast. I also generally have some issues with the writing on Flash, so once you remove BA from those writers he generally just gets better because of his surroundings. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

He, like Oliver, has difficulty learning his lessons. 

 

But OMG @ him recording a goodbye message from Eddie for Iris. I'm weeping. 

LOL I love how Grant Gustin tweeted this:

 

 

Guys we just need to accept that Barry is stubborn, ok? It's just a fact.

 

I wonder what people would call Felicity or any other female on Arrow or Flash if they acted like Barry or Oliver....... hmmmmmmm

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I wonder what people would call Felicity or any other female on Arrow or Flash if they acted like Barry or Oliver....... hmmmmmmm

 

 

hmmmmmmmm

mmmmmmm

mmmmmm

mmmmm

mmmm

mmm

mm

m

 

i do not know

LOL I love how Grant Gustin tweeted this:

 

There's a difference between stubborn and being so dumb that you repeatedly put people in danger by not learning your lessons but 'kay, Grant!

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kismet

kismet

Ugh, that video. I'm not crying, you're crying.

I kinda miss Thawne sometimes. He's very terrifying.

I also wish we could keep Hartley and Eddie.

It seems like we might get to keep Hartley?? I did like him. Although I would choose to keep Eddie over him on any day & twice on days the end in "y".

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kismet

kismet

Ugh, that video. I'm not crying, you're crying.

I kinda miss Thawne sometimes. He's very terrifying.

I also wish we could keep Hartley and Eddie.

It seems like we might get to keep Hartley?? I did like him. Although I would choose to keep Eddie over him on any day & twice on days the end in "y".

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I knew I'd cry the minute that video played. Man, I love Eddie, hate that they killed him off. This just reminded of how much I don't want Barry/Iris to happen.

I liked Hartley, glad they got to keep him around.

I haven't been watching the Flash much this season, i only turned it on tonight because there was nothing else on TV. I'll consider it good fortune that the I got to see Eddie again.

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Delphi

Delphi

Yes.... but things are not that good over there for him. :( I'm guessing you do not watch the show.

Awh. They just keep killing Eddie (and Sebastian Blood). I decided to binge Quantico after it became clear that Rick wasn't going to be making out with hot guys every episode. I'm shallow.

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