Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[KenyaJ]

31 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Since noone had any problems distinguishing the evil counterparts from the known characters - noone side-eyed Oliver or Kara over having Nazi version, even Ollie and Kara themselves didn`t give it a moment`s brood - I do hope thhat is a lesson learned in terms of Black Siren. Sara might have been shaken a bit by Nazi!Lance but she clearly didn`t view him in any way as her father. 

Yeah. After Oliver was so resolute in saying EarthX-Tommy wasn't his Tommy, it's going to be absolute nonsense if he (or anyone else) goes soft on Black Siren because she shares a face with Laurel.

5 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Also it did seem like and unofficial Poly commitment ceremony, which was slightly eyebrow raising (and I'm sure someone's gonna write those fics). 

OMG. There used to be this show on Showtime about polyamorous relationships -- creatively titled "Polyamory" -- and there was a scene where a polyamorous throuple had a commitment ceremony in a park, officiated by one of their friends. I'd forgotten all about it until your comment, and now I can't stop laughing at the comparison.

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

After Oliver was so resolute in saying EarthX-Tommy wasn't his Tommy, it's going to be absolute nonsense if he (or anyone else) goes soft on Black Siren because she shares a face with Laurel.

Yep. Kind of hope they fill Lance in on what happened (since they tend not to do that when he's not in an episode) so that takes care of that and they can move on to another storyline for him. I'm tired of Lance's storylines revolving around his daughters (from any Earth) and drinking. Paul Blackthorne deserves better. 

[insomniadreams88]

Haven't read the article (it's probably just repeating whatever the other one said), but just saw this on Twitter: 

I think my favorite part is that Iris and Barry look happy for Oliver and Felicity in that photo. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[Chaser]

My favorite part is every article about the wedding is about Olicity. 

[apinknightmare]

This one is different. She criticizes:

1. Oliver and Felicity waiting until the last minute to RSVP (excuses Legends and Supergirl for doing it)
2. Felicity saying that Iris is "glowing" since that's a term for pregnant women
3. Felicity answering the question about her and Oliver's relationship instead of redirecting the convo like Kara did because this brought down everyone's mood
4. Oliver telling Barry to wing his wedding vows
5. Oliver proposing to Felicity at the rehearsal dinner
6. Felicity interrupting the ceremony, which is apparently worse because Barry and Felicity "briefly dated" so she's interrupting her ex's wedding.

[bijoux]

I wonder on which of the Earths Barry and Felicity have dated, briefly or otherwise.

[apinknightmare]

13 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I wonder on which of the Earths Barry and Felicity have dated, briefly or otherwise.

The earth that exists solely in that writer's head. 

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

This one is different. She criticizes:

1. Oliver and Felicity waiting until the last minute to RSVP (excuses Legends and Supergirl for doing it)
2. Felicity saying that Iris is "glowing" since that's a term for pregnant women
3. Felicity answering the question about her and Oliver's relationship instead of redirecting the convo like Kara did because this brought down everyone's mood
4. Oliver telling Barry to wing his wedding vows
5. Oliver proposing to Felicity at the rehearsal dinner
6. Felicity interrupting the ceremony, which is apparently worse because Barry and Felicity "briefly dated" so she's interrupting her ex's wedding.

1) Oliver was already a groomsman so why would they need to RSVP at all? Like how did Iris NOT expect them and account for it already? That never made sense to other than for the comedy bit at that beginning.

2) Who cares if Felicity spoke incorrectly about Iris glowing? Why was she corrected and why was it mentioned that it was what is said about pregnant women? Did Felicity accidentally spill  the beans on Iris being pregnant already? Is that the end game on that?

3) Felicity and Iris are good friends. Iris knows that Felicity misses social cues a lot and if she didn't want a sincere answer she shouldn't have asked. Also, don't ask people when they plan to tie the knot. Kara redirected the convo because SHE didn't want to talk about it. Nothing more, nothing less.

4)Why is that even an issue? That's Oliver's opinion. Barry can ignore it.

5)I don't care because he did it privately. It only became an issue when Felicity had her outburst and left. Like I'm sure other people were talking about many other things besides Barry and Iris after they toasted the couple.

6) I wouldn't call their brief foray into MAYBE dating actual dating. They recognized pretty quickly romance would never work between them. So...what? I don't understand that argument in the least.

[lemotomato]

I think trivia night at Jitters in Flash 103 was considered a date. So they went on ONE date. (If that's the case, I have a lot of exes. )

You know what that io9 article reeks of? "I saw my writer buddy on another site write a hit piece on Felicity and Oliver and get lots of attention, so I'm going to do the same thing!"

Edited November 30, 2017 by lemotomato

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, leopardprint said:

So I think that the villains were a total failure but I actually think the shoehorning in of this sub plot really diminished the villains plot also all the speeches about weakness and "heroes". If you are going to use Nazis, a half baked love story about saving your evil wife really doesn't add anything except to make me question why you needed them to be Nazis to tell this story? Also that a rando human would be the leader of a regime obsessed with strength over superpowered individuals. I get that poorly and lazily conceived villains are an issue across the Arrowverse but they really leaned into it here. Just threw up their hands and said "let's just make them Nazis." 

The whole evil love story was a waste of time.  They could have had basically the same plot of OliverX trying to get a heart for KaraX just because she was his best General and biggest weapon.  Thre was no real benefit to add in the love story part, it's not like they developed their relationship to the point where anyone really cared.  Even Evil Kara didn't really seem to care as often as she kept promising to just die or would rather OliverX kill someone than save her. She defended him a few times but always in the context of him being the leader, not out of affection.  So yeah, why did they bother to spend time on a "love" story?  The moment they chose Nazis they had to know they were only doing 2-dimensional characters so why foist a 2-dimensional love story in there as well?  Just for the shock value? 

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

This one is different. She criticizes:

1. Oliver and Felicity waiting until the last minute to RSVP (excuses Legends and Supergirl for doing it)
2. Felicity saying that Iris is "glowing" since that's a term for pregnant women
3. Felicity answering the question about her and Oliver's relationship instead of redirecting the convo like Kara did because this brought down everyone's mood
4. Oliver telling Barry to wing his wedding vows
5. Oliver proposing to Felicity at the rehearsal dinner
6. Felicity interrupting the ceremony, which is apparently worse because Barry and Felicity "briefly dated" so she's interrupting her ex's wedding.

Wow, that's a lot of reaching.  How dare Felicity answer a question the bride to be asked her!  And she didn't poo poo love or marriage, just the current complications of her life which she didn't go into detail about nor was she dropping news the rest of them didn't already know.  We've seen on The Flash how closely Central City has been following the drama in Star City's Mayor is accused of being the GA saga.  Of course they know this stuff.  

Oliver also told Barry to speak from the heart.  That's pretty good advice to someone that the day before the wedding has already given up on writing condensed vows.  Not like Oliver is a writer.  And it's not like Oliver got down on one knee during the RD.  That anyone knew what was going on was an accident.  

If Felicity dating Barry was a problem, I don't think Iris would have her as a bridesmaid.  Also, Iris was the one that actually set up their one official date.  The desperation for more to complain about is hilarious.  

[Starfish35]

Reading through the comments ..... gahhh. *shudders* I may not be an Olicity shipper but I will never understand the "emotionally abusive Felicity" argument.  

[insomniadreams88]

25 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

1. Oliver and Felicity waiting until the last minute to RSVP (excuses Legends and Supergirl for doing it)

3. Felicity answering the question about her and Oliver's relationship instead of redirecting the convo like Kara did because this brought down everyone's mood

1. The Legends should be the first ones to RSVP yes to anything because they travel through time. What would their excuse be? "Oh, sorry, we were stuck in the 1700s and just couldn't set the Waverider to go to a specific date in 2017 because we didn't feel like it"?

3. The only thing I didn't get about that was Iris' bachelorette party was, what 3 weeks ago?, and Felicity answered Cecile's Q about her and Oliver getting married. Did Iris really think so much had changed in those weeks especially considering Oliver was just arrested and Felicity mentioned it like it wasn't new news, that Felicity was going to go, "Yep, we're sending out invitations next week! Surprise!"? 

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

If Felicity dating Barry was a problem, I don't think Iris would have her as a bridesmaid.  Also, Iris was the one that actually set up their one official date.  The desperation for more to complain about is hilarious.  

Oh yeah, I totally forgot she was a bridesmaid, so that whole official RSVP thing complaint? Ridiculous. They were already included without RSVPing.

[Starfish35]

The RSVP thing was incredibly stupid anyway.  Oliver and Felicity were in the wedding - of course they were coming!  So stupid.  No one waits until the day before to confirm that your bridesmaids and groomsmen are going to show up. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

The RSVP thing was incredibly stupid anyway.  Oliver and Felicity were in the wedding - of course they were coming!  So stupid.  No one waits until the day before to confirm that your bridesmaids and groomsmen are going to show up. 

That drove me batty.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

3. The only thing I didn't get about that was Iris' bachelorette party was, what 3 weeks ago?, and Felicity answered Cecile's Q about her and Oliver getting married. Did Iris really think so much had changed in those weeks especially considering Oliver was just arrested and Felicity mentioned it like it wasn't new news, that Felicity was going to go, "Yep, we're sending out invitations next week! Surprise!"? 

They had her answer that question so that the Supergirl and Legends viewers - who wouldn't have seen her over on Flash or know about the situation from Arrow - would understand the marriage issue between her and Oliver that was a plot line through the crossover. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

16 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Reading through the comments ..... gahhh. *shudders* I may not be an Olicity shipper but I will never understand the "emotionally abusive Felicity" argument.  

I've seen several posters on Twitter (antis/haters) say her saying no to Oliver at the rehearsal was "emotionally abusive." Uhm, what? 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I've seen several posters on Twitter (antis/haters) say her saying no to Oliver at the rehearsal was "emotionally abusive." Uhm, what? 

Wow. So that totally ignores that Oliver was the one that kind of pushed her too far. She told him she wanted to talk about it later. Yes she didn't have to shout at him and he could have respected that they would talk about it later. Stubborn Oliver is stubborn.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think the line about Iris glowing might have been added because they were introducing their daughter at the wedding so they wanted to give a hint to the audience.

I will never understand why people focus on Barry and Felicity “dating” when it was barely a thing while what’s relevant is their good friendship.

4 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I've seen several posters on Twitter (antis/haters) say her saying no to Oliver at the rehearsal was "emotionally abusive." Uhm, what? 

God forbit women can reject marriage proposals! Hello 2017, lol

[catrox14]

Just now, Midnight Lullaby said:

I will never understand why people focus on Barry and Felicity “dating” when it was barely a thing while what’s relevant is their good friendship.

Because it makes Felicity look like the literal worst in that situation. That somehow her having barely dated Barry, makes her I guess low key jealous so that's why she interrupted? It makes not one bit of sense.

[Chaser]

My favorite comment is the one that states Olicity represents the worst of us and the majority of society.

In an episode of Nazis, this is the hill they choose to die on.

Slow clap it out.

[apinknightmare]

Even if reddit wasn't mentioned in the comments, you could still pick out which people on there frequent that board LOL.

[Mellowyellow]

Why are people even allowed to publish stupid articles like that?

I am not clicking on it but is that even a real journalist or is it the equivalent of an AO3 website where any person and their dog can write "articles".

I am curious though. Is fandom defending Felicity or is this too stupid for people to even bother?

On a different note I thought Iris was very invested in Oliver and Felicity's relationship. They set this up in Girls Night Out and in the crossover. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Oh, look at you, my fellow looney tunes, using logic and common sense. God, I love this board, LOL!

[apinknightmare]

18 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I've seen several posters on Twitter (antis/haters) say her saying no to Oliver at the rehearsal was "emotionally abusive." Uhm, what? 

All the arguments I see about this are examples of Felicity not going along with and supporting Oliver in everything he wants/when he wants it, regardless of the circumstances. And it mostly seems to hinge around the "I don't want to be a woman you love" thing, and her breaking up with Oliver right after he filmed a video saying goodbye to his kid that was none of her business anyway.

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

My favorite part is every article about the wedding is about Olicity. 

Thiiiiis. If there were still doubts about what creates buzz.

[Mellowyellow]

8 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Thiiiiis. If there were still doubts about what creates buzz.

This is why I think we will never get a photo shoot.

They spent no money promoting Olicity in the crossover and now it's everyone's biggest obsession. They don't need to pay for a photo shoot and they won't because people are always going to talk about Olicity whether they love them or hate them. 

[WindofChange]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

This is why I think we will never get a photo shoot.

Don't worry - the fans are paying for the photoshoots through cons now ;)

[Trini]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

10 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I never wrote that it was kidnapping. But Diggle was out there living his own life doing whatever while he was hurt - which Barry knew - and Barry just grabbed him and brought him to Central City without asking him because Barry wanted Diggle to do something for him. Which, if we're talking about people being rude - is incredibly rude.

I don't think I said that you did. I've read it across the forums and threads by others, and just wanted to state that I found it funny, and didn't have a problem with it. 

It's a running gag. Not that big a deal.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

It's a running gag. Not that big a deal.

I didn't write that it was a big deal - I wrote that it was rude. 

[WindofChange]

I have a few questions about the crossover:

• Did anyone ever ask Felicity how she feels about the Nazis? You know considering out of everyone (excluding Stein), she was likely the one most affected by their sudden appearance? 
• Also did anyone else find it jarring and inappropriate that Barry and Iris were talking about their honeymoon after Barry had just witnessed people suffering in the concentration camps? 
• I don't remember this but did we ever see Kara thank Felicity for saving her and protecting her from EX-Oliver? Not that Felicity ever required it but it would've been a nice acknowledgement
• Why do you guys think Barry/Iris' daughter was so insistent on them saying "I do"? Do you think she'll be a more permanent fixture on the show next year?
• Did any of you find it really really odd that they didn't help said people in the concentration camps? But maybe they didn't because they were worried that they'd get killed for trying to escape idk

Edited December 1, 2017 by WindofChange

[Morrigan2575]

In order

No

Not really

No

Because it was a family story that got told forever about how Barry/Iris forgot to say "I Do"

No, I assumed The Ray and the rest of the Resistance Movement would take care of it after the main battle/war was fought.

[ruby24]

I don't know, I kinda thought that "I Do" thing must be significant, actually...especially if she came back specifically to tell him that. I think that's going to come up again. Although I don't know how it could mean that they aren't really married or something, especially if they got their marriage license beforehand, as I assume they did.

[Mellowyellow]

Quote

Felicity saying that Iris is "glowing" since that's a term for pregnant women

I wanted to refrain from commenting but I can't!

If I were a WA fan I would be squeeing my little heart out at this comment as I would be thinking it was a hint for future WA babies! But sure! Use it to diss Felicity cuz that's all that counts right? 

I swear if a comment like that came up about Felicity, even if it was made by bloody BS, you would all have to tranquilize me for the rest of the season because I would not shut up about Olicitots! 

Quote

Did any of you find it really really odd that they didn't help said people in the concentration camps? But maybe they didn't because they were worried that they'd get killed for trying to escape idk

I assumed ExWinn was going to take care of the people left behind because the Resistance had grand plans of their own and our heroes shouldn't be messing with that.

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, WindofChange said:

I have a few questions about the crossover:

• Did anyone ever ask Felicity how she feels about the Nazis? You know considering out of everyone (excluding Stein), she was likely the one most affected by their sudden appearance? 

Since you asked ?

I think her confrontation with Evil Oliver was supposed to cover that? But yeah, I would imagine a Jewish person would be super traumatized by something like that, not even getting into him wearing the face of the man she loves. 

Even though I liked the Jax/Stein story, I actually thought it was really weird that Stein never commented or reacted or had a POV about being a Jewish person put in a concentration camp on Nazi world. It was a pretty glaring omission, though I think the use of Nazis was totally unnecessary, if you are going to use Nazis, you should probably have both of the Jewish characters react. 

I did hate the Nazi storyline and thought it was totally gratuitous but I kind of wish that Felicity-X and Iris-X had been shown as the totally badass leaders of the resistance. More Iris/Felicity teamups! 

ETA: The actress playing the waitress is fairly recognizable so I think she is more than a one-off. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by leopardprint

[way2interested]

25 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Did any of you find it really really odd that they didn't help said people in the concentration camps? But maybe they didn't because they were worried that they'd get killed for trying to escape idk

At the moment they were there no/not really since they were rushing to get back to E-1 because who knows what the Nazi doubles could have been doing there to their own loved ones not to mention other innocent people. After they won and The Ray was going back I did think it was a bit odd but then realized that they did beat a bunch of the troops (in the E-1 battle), Oliver broke their control panel for teleporting to different Earths, the Nazi's big weapon was destroyed, the 3 biggest fighters on the Nazi side were dead or gone, the resistance still have Red Tornado (or at least probably the tech to fix it/make more like it), presumably if E-X Felicity was able to break out she probably took some more down/saved some people, The Ray went back, etc. So in the end I didn't really feel bad about it.

36 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Do you think she'll be a more permanent fixture on the show next year?

Tvline confirmed she'd be back soon but didn't give details of who she was exactly and for how long. 

37 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Did anyone ever ask Felicity how she feels about the Nazis? You know considering out of everyone (excluding Stein), she was likely the one most affected by their sudden appearance? 

No, but I did find it interesting that  they gave Felicity the most visceral reaction of the group. They even kept cutting back to the shot on her disgusted face once they were explaining the whole Nazi regime until she ended the exposition dump with "I think I'm going to be sick."

[Mellowyellow]

One of the reasons I loved the Felicity and EvilOliver face off is because it was extremely in character for her to react the way she did.

Felicity Smoak, for all her cutesy adorableness has nerves of steel. It was very Felicity of her to disregard the fact that he looked identical to her Oliver (the love of her life!!!!!) and just give him hell without blinking.

On the other hand I think that if there was ever an EvilFelicity, Oliver would be much more affected/rattled. 

I started off wanting EarthXFelicity to be some kickass hacker but I kinda loved what they did give us. Even at her lowest, most down trodden EarthXFelicity was kind and tried to help those weaker than her. For me that was so much more moving than her running around kicking ass (which she totally did as Original Felicity anyway).

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, WindofChange said:

• Did any of you find it really really odd that they didn't help said people in the concentration camps? But maybe they didn't because they were worried that they'd get killed for trying to escape idk

Not after the way it ultimately worked out, but I did think it was weird that the first thing Oliver said when they realized they were in a concentration camp was something along the lines of, "We've got to get out of here and get back to the people we love." I don't recall anyone in that group saying that they should help any of those people (although there wouldn't have been much they could do, it would've been nice for someone to voice it).

[KenyaJ]

7 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

On the other hand I think that if there was ever an EvilFelicity, Oliver would be much more affected/rattled. 

Oh, I want to see this desperately now. I want to see Evil Iris too. I think CP would kill that. 

Also, the way that Ray was introduced into the crossover was perfect, but I really wish he'd been around for the earlier parts. I find him so fun and charming now.

[ruby24]

I think CP could pull off an evil Iris. They should have her doppelgänger come to Earth 1, kidnap her other self and try to impersonate her with Barry, that'd be fun.

[wingster55]

3 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Haven't read the article (it's probably just repeating whatever the other one said), but just saw this on Twitter: 

I think my favorite part is that Iris and Barry look happy for Oliver and Felicity in that photo. 

Initial reaction: 

Edited December 1, 2017 by wingster55

[JJ928]

Can I chime in and say I would love evil married SmoakWest? LOL

[Chaser]

A crossover with Evil (not Nazi) E something Counterparts slowly replacing our heroes until it's up SmoakWest to defeat them.

[Mellowyellow]

But what would EvilFelicity want?

Is she with EvilOliver?

Are we talking actually evil or just shady?

[apinknightmare]

27 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

Initial reaction: 

And this 30 seconds of Felicity and Oliver is discussed about 10x more than all the good stuff that happened between Barry and Iris in the previous 3 hours and 59 minutes. It's so weird.

[lemotomato]

6 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

And this 30 seconds of Felicity and Oliver is discussed about 10x more than all the good stuff that happened between Barry and Iris in the previous 3 hours and 59 minutes. It's so weird.

The ironic thing about all articles and comments complaining about Oliver and Felicity making everything about themselves are only making the crossover discussion even more about just Olicity. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

I don't know what you are talking about, WA didn't have any scenes together. Twitter said so.

[ruby24]

They didn't, really. Both their weddings were destroyed. They're not getting a honeymoon. They were shit on, basically.

[wingster55]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

And this 30 seconds of Felicity and Oliver is discussed about 10x more than all the good stuff that happened between Barry and Iris in the previous 3 hours and 59 minutes. It's so weird.

I suggest you look more closely if you want to make that assertion. 

WA fans ARE happy they're married, that we saw Dawn, the entire ceremony. 

But we can also express displeasure at those two essentially being plot devices, no one comforting either about what was supposed to be their happiest day, Barry not saying more than 10 words on his own damn show, Felicity interrupting the wedding, their first kiss being immediately blocked by OF and not even having a wedding party...unlike OF (the last part). 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, lemotomato said:

The ironic thing about all articles and comments complaining about Oliver and Felicity making everything about themselves are only making the crossover discussion even more about just Olicity. 

I just find the focus on Olicity as if they're self-absorbed selfish monsters while everyone else was out selflessly fighting Nazis so strange? Alex had recurring personal drama over her breakup throughout the crossover. Jax and Stein were angsty about being separated throughout the crossover. Even The Ray took some time out — a guy who's part of the resistance — WHO LIVES ON A NAZI EARTH to have some nice moments with his boyfriend? Even Barry and Iris took a minute to lament about their missed honeymoon AFTER BARRY CAME BACK FROM A CONCENTRATION CAMP. Those moments are what made the crossover great - because it WASN'T all Nazi drama all the time.