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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes


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2 hours ago, emarasmoak said:

Yes to all of this. Also I never saw the chemistry with James/ Kara and the love triangle with Lucy was awful to watch. James is the Laurel Lance in Supergirl for me and I don't like anything about Guardian and not much about CatCo.

Said that, I am loving everything else in Supergirl season 2, including Mon-El (which is incredibly charming and funny... his awkwardness sometimes reminds me of Felicity), shipping him with Kara (great chemistry in my opinion and I also love cliché love storylines - tropes are frequently used for a reason) and the potential storylines about Daxam and the dominators. 

Disclaimer: Pardon me if anything I say comes off as rude-presently, I am doped up on painkillerz

First-in total agreement about your first paragraph. Like I posted in theSupergirl thread-this show has made me hate Jimmy Olsen.

As for Mon-El being in any way similar to Felicity? I couldn't disagree more. He is too frat boyish, shallow, thinks only of himself and only wants to be a hero to impress Kara. He has no desire to want to help people unless it makes him look good to her.  And he doesn't want her to help people when she doesn't have her powers.

I'd rather she not have any love interest, but if she has to have one, my vote is for Justice League Unlimited's Brainiac 5!?

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11 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

As for Mon-El being in any way similar to Felicity? I couldn't disagree more. He is too frat boyish, shallow, thinks only of himself and only wants to be a hero to impress Kara. He has no desire to want to help people unless it makes him look good to her.  And he doesn't want her to help people when she doesn't have her powers.

I see this as the the first act of a potential character arc.

Frat boy is his starting point, and he decides he wants to be a hero for the wrong reasons [i.e. to impress the girl]. That's the end of act 1 -- the wanting to change [for whatever reason] is the plot beat that propels his story into Act 2.

I have zero idea whatsoever what's gonna happen next, but if this goes the regular route, then Act 2 is him attempting to change. Then some ~twist~ happens at the end of act 2 [it turns out he's the prince and not the bodyguard, for example], which sets up Act 3. And then act 3 is either frat boy realizing that to be a hero he has to do it for more than a girl, OR he sacrifices himself for the girl thus finally becoming a hero, OR psych! he's actually evil.
 

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46 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I see this as the the first act of a potential character arc.

Frat boy is his starting point, and he decides he wants to be a hero for the wrong reasons [i.e. to impress the girl]. That's the end of act 1 -- the wanting to change [for whatever reason] is the plot beat that propels his story into Act 2.

I have zero idea whatsoever what's gonna happen next, but if this goes the regular route, then Act 2 is him attempting to change. Then some ~twist~ happens at the end of act 2 [it turns out he's the prince and not the bodyguard, for example], which sets up Act 3. And then act 3 is either frat boy realizing that to be a hero he has to do it for more than a girl, OR he sacrifices himself for the girl thus finally becoming a hero, OR psych! he's actually evil.
 

This ^^^ is exactly what I think it is going to happen. I see this as a potential character development (that I happen to enjoy). I like stories about people changing for the better and I think that a big part of Supergirl's power is her capacity to inspire others to be better. I also don't think that this inspiration is exclusively romantic, although his crush has a lot to do with it.

Also, I have seen some interviews that point to this direction (character evolution), so I really think that this is what TPTB or at least the actor have in mind. Example below:

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/supergirl-mon-el-chris-wood-on-series-return/

Quote

RT: Now that Mon-El has had a taste of how good heroism feels, is he jonesing for more?

Wood: Yeah, I think that’s definitely something that he’s going to experience. Every time he’s gotten to see Kara in action, it has a propelling effect on him where he is inspired. That part of him, whether or not — I don’t know if everyone sees it, but there’s something in him that Kara sees, that he can do this. Not that she needs to convince him, but he needs to find that place within himself just like he did. Because she also didn’t just pop down and do this the whole time she was on Earth. She took having an encounter and actually trying to help for the first time, realizing she really wanted to do this.

He still needs to have that ah-ha moment. His isn’t a huge stopping a jet from flying into a bridge moment. His is a series of small inspirations and failing a few times. Ultimately, that thing that Kara sees that makes her think that he can do this is going to be the thing that eventually will wake up. This is one of the steps towards that.

I don't think that Mon-El is in that moment of the story when he wants to be a hero for himself yet. I think that it will happen during this season.

Regarding his initial shallow and frat boy days I have also seen another interview with Chris Wood at the beginning of the season saying that is was deliberate as it would be more fun if he was not someone to like or admire at the beginning (I cannot find the source right now).

I also understand that this evolution may be something that some people are not interested to watch. I definitely are not interested in most of Arrow's newbies (the only one I care about is Ragman), so I totally get that others may feel this plot/ character as something that they do not want.

I am just so happy to be able to enjoy Supergirl now that Arrow is not the show that I used to love anymore...

Edited by emarasmoak
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15 minutes ago, emarasmoak said:

Regarding his initial shallow and frat boy days I have also seen another interview with Chris Wood at the beginning of the season saying that is was deliberate as it would be more fun if he was not someone to like or admire at the beginning (I cannot find the source right now).

I also understand that this evolution may be something that some people are not interested to watch.

Oh, yeah, I get why people might not be interested, but for me -- them deliberately making his starting point be vapid frat boy makes me immediately perk up and be ready to 'ship. Mon-El is basically catnip for my 'shipping tendencies, lol.

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9 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Oh, yeah, I get why people might not be interested, but for me -- them deliberately making his starting point be vapid frat boy makes me immediately perk up and be ready to 'ship. Mon-El is basically catnip for my 'shipping tendencies, lol.

Same. Also full disclaimer - I find Chris Wood very handsome, his acting as Mon-El very charismatic and charming, and his interactions with Melissa sparkling with chemistry

Edited by emarasmoak
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Having mined the Stargate alumni, they're going for Andromeda now.

2 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

Oh, yeah, I get why people might not be interested, but for me -- them deliberately making his starting point be vapid frat boy makes me immediately perk up and be ready to 'ship. Mon-El is basically catnip for my 'shipping tendencies, lol.

The thing about tropes like those is that you have to be careful because people are either all in with the trope or all out.  While it is catnip for those who like it, there's very little room to grow to like a character if you hate the trope.

Oliver Queen also started out as a vapid fratboy but we met him post growth, or rather mid-growth if you listen to the writers.  I wonder how finding out that he hadn't really changed that much and it was Talia who turned him into a vigilante trying to do good not Oliver's own growth, will affect the perception of him.

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4 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Really?!  The ads refer to it as there new hit drama but I guess for CW those are considered good.

Well one could argue that amongst the newest show CW produce this season is the one whose ratings hold up the most and they can put the label of hit on it. 

Why isn't CW releasing the stills for their DCTV shows for next week. Supergirl airs on Monday and no stills out yet. 

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29 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In case anyone cares, the early ratings for last night's Riverdale were 0.4 and 1.34*...
http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/02/ratings-news-3rd-february-2017.html

(* To compare, last week's ratings for its pilot episode were 0.5 and 1.38.)

Maybe the rumors of The CW adding another superhero show aren't so far-fetched.

Hahahahahaha! I watched the pilot, and it was so, so terrible that this feels like justice.

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I am actually alright with Mon-El as a character, mainly because I think the actor is doing a really good job making him likable, while also being kind of an asshole. I'm actually looking forward to seeing his character develop, but my issue is that I hope its not just about Kara. I just don't buy them very much as a possible couple, at least right now. He is WAY too bro for Kara and she is too girl next door for him. Maybe when he becomes a better guy, I`ll buy it more, but I hope his character development goes beyond Kara being his cheerleader, and him trying to impress her. If they want to see us on Mon-El as a hero, I want to see him be a good person because its what HE wants, not what Kara wants.

Last night, I had my yearly viewing of Groundhog Day, the classic Bill Murray comedy about an asshole who gets stuck in the same day over and over. First he uses this to get stuff and screw with people without consequences, and then he tries to pretend to be a good person to get the woman he likes to like him back. However, she's an actual good person who can see right through his bullshit and rejects him over and over. It isn't until he stops trying to pretend to be a good person to impress her, and starts doing good things for other people when she cant even see it, that he really DOES become a good person who cares about and helps people, and that's when she actually falls for him. She inspires him to improve himself, but his change from selfish jerk to heroic and kind person is based around his own realization that he feels better when he's a better person, and that's the person he wants to be, even if it gets him nothing. That's basically the arc I want to see from Mon-El, whether or not he ends up with Kara or not.

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6 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think the only way I can buy NuCanary having the same name is if she's Sara's daughter from the future. And for an Easter Egg they can say Tinah's father is Tim Drake. 

Lol I like it.  Hey if we're going to go comics crazy let's just go all out and embrace the madness. :)

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1 hour ago, tv echo said:

In case anyone cares, the early ratings for last night's Riverdale were 0.4 and 1.34*...
http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/02/ratings-news-3rd-february-2017.html

(* To compare, last week's ratings for its pilot episode were 0.5 and 1.38.)

Maybe the rumors of The CW adding another superhero show aren't so far-fetched.

They need to put LoT back in that slot. It did a lot better. Riverdale would've been better for 9pm Thursday.

I feel like there's going to be a shakeup with the schedule next year...

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Just now, Starfish35 said:

Riverdale IS at 9 pm.  SPN is at 8 pm.  They moved it back an hour.

lol how did I not know this :p

Then yeah I don't think we'll see any schedule shakeups.

Edited by wonderwall
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10 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

 

What I would like to see, ideally, is Sara and Dinah meeting, and after working out the obvious awkwardness, becoming good friends.  I don't know that I'll get that, but I'd really enjoy seeing them bring Sara in for an episode with Dinah (and maybe Felicity - a BOP-type teamup would be fantastic) to acknowledge the whole Canary history, and not just the Laurel of it.  

So I was going to suggest that Sara hooks up with her as well, but then the whole akward thing with her having her mother's name hit me and yeah, not wanting that so much now.  

 

3 hours ago, emarasmoak said:

This ^^^ is exactly what I think it is going to happen. I see this as a potential character development (that I happen to enjoy). I like stories about people changing for the better and I think that a big part of Supergirl's power is her capacity to inspire others to be better. I also don't think that this inspiration is exclusively romantic, although his crush has a lot to do with it.

Also, I have seen some interviews that point to this direction (character evolution), so I really think that this is what TPTB or at least the actor have in mind. Example below:

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/supergirl-mon-el-chris-wood-on-series-return/

I don't think that Mon-El is in that moment of the story when he wants to be a hero for himself yet. I think that it will happen during this season.

Regarding his initial shallow and frat boy days I have also seen another interview with Chris Wood at the beginning of the season saying that is was deliberate as it would be more fun if he was not someone to like or admire at the beginning (I cannot find the source right now).

I also understand that this evolution may be something that some people are not interested to watch. I definitely are not interested in most of Arrow's newbies (the only one I care about is Ragman), so I totally get that others may feel this plot/ character as something that they do not want.

I am just so happy to be able to enjoy Supergirl now that Arrow is not the show that I used to love anymore...

I can see Mon-El growing into that character and just as he and Supergirl are starting something, he is needed to be that hero for his remaining people (who will probably suddenly pop up on some distant planet trying to start over) and thus, now knowing what it is to be a real hero, leaves Earth behind.  

 Almost all the characters on Supergirl are a lighter, but as for him being like Felicity, I can't say that I see it except kind of in his word faux pas, the difference though is Felicity had a mind to mouth filter problem and he just doesn't know enough about Earth's culture to get it right.

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Just now, BkWurm1 said:

So I was going to suggest that Sara hooks up with her as well, but then the whole akward thing with her having her mother's name hit me and yeah, not wanting that so much now.  

Lol yeahhh it would feel kind of incestual, in more than one way.  Like, not only do you have my mom's name, you're my dead sister's replacement.  So yeah.  No.  :) I'll settle for good friends. Lol.

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2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

So I was going to suggest or him being like Felicity, I can't say that I see it except kind of in his word faux pas, the difference though is Felicity had a mind to mouth filter problem and he just doesn't know enough about Earth's culture to get it right.

Well, not all of his akward moments are about not knowing about earthly ways (e.g. "professionally handsome desk person" or "dissaproving non-smile"). The resemblance I see is that both of their characters have sometimes a funny delivery and choice of words.

Weirdly, I also saw an Oliver resemblance when Kara was stressd about Livewire, broke something and he tried to calm her with a shoulder touch and a "hey hey".
 

I am aware that this is probably a "you know that you have seen too much Arrow and are an Olicity shipper when you find O/F everywhere".

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Ranking wise the Top 5 CW shows for this week are as follows:

  • Flash
  • Supergirl
  • LoT (same demo as SG but less viewers)
  • Arrow 
  • Supernatural (same demo as Arrow but less viewers)

Last week

  • Flash
  • Supergirl
  • LoT 
  • Supernatural (same demo as LoT but slightly less viewers)
  • Arrow (same demo as SPN & LOT but less viewers than both shows).
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3 hours ago, Proteus said:

Iris brings the whole show down for me. I'm so over the whole show week after week bring about keeping her alive.

I'm glad that the show is at least going to have a goal for the rest of the season; the back halves of the last two seasons didn't have that -- and it showed.

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8 minutes ago, Trini said:

I'm glad that the show is at least going to have a goal for the rest of the season; the back halves of the last two seasons didn't have that -- and it showed.

They just need to take it easy on pushing too much. Especially if this sl is lasting till season finale. Its not necessary to put Iris in danger every single episode. 

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I wonder if these writers have ever read the fable of the Boy who Cried Wolf. Because at the rate they put IW in danger, at some point a really bad thing is going to happen to her and the audience just won't care either because of fatigue or its just another day in CC.

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20 hours ago, tv echo said:

In case anyone cares, the early ratings for last night's Riverdale were 0.4 and 1.34*...
http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/02/ratings-news-3rd-february-2017.html

(* To compare, last week's ratings for its pilot episode were 0.5 and 1.38.)

Maybe the rumors of The CW adding another superhero show aren't so far-fetched.

Final adjusted ratings reduced the total viewership - so it's 0.4 and 1.15 for Riverdale this week...
http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/02/final-adjusted-tv-ratings-for-sunday.html 

Looking at that same chart, Katrina Law's new show, Training Day, debuted at 0.9 and 4.73. However, that show is on CBS, which means a weak showing on a broadcast network. On the bright side, if that show is cancelled, maybe Nyssa will return to the Arrowverse.

Edited by tv echo
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Greg Berlanti's DC Comics Drama 'Black Lightning' Scores Pilot Order — at The CW
FEBRUARY 03, 2017 11:30am PT by Lesley Goldberg
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/greg-berlantis-dc-comics-drama-black-lightning-scores-pilot-order-at-cw-971745

Quote

DC Comics drama Black Lightning has moved from Fox to The CW with a formal pilot order, The Hollywood Reporter has learned.
*  *  *
One of DC Comics' first major African-American superheroes, Black Lightning was created by Tony Isabella and Trevor Von Eeden and debuted in 1977. The hourlong drama will center on Jefferson Pierce, who hung up his suit and his secret identity years ago. However, with a daughter hell-bent on justice and a star student being recruited by a local gang, he'll be pulled back into the fight as the wanted vigilante and DC legend Black Lightning.

The Akils, who will pen the script, will executive produce the drama alongside Berlanti and his Berlanti Productions topper Sarah Schechter. Black Lightning marks the first pilot pickup to come from the Akils' overall deal with Warner Bros. Television.

Sources say the move to The CW came as Fox is already home to two DC Comics dramas (Batman-themed Gotham and Lucifer). With those, as well as Marvel's live-action X-Men drama and Seth MacFarlane's hourlong space dramedy Orville, Fox opted to pass a formal pickup for Lightning, and producers WBTV — who supply half of The CW's originals as a co-owner of the network — found it a familiar home.
*  *  *
Lightning fills the final pilot slot on The CW's roster this season and arrives after network president Mark Pedowitz was not planning on adding another DC Comics show to his schedule.
*  *  *
Lightning brings The CW's pilot haul to six, even with last year. It joins Dynasty, Insatiable and Valor — all from co-owner CBS Television Studios — and WBTV's Life Sentence and Searchers.

Greg Berlanti’s ‘Black Lightning’ Moves to CW With Pilot Pickup
Elizabeth Wagmeister   Feb. 3, 2017
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/black-lightning-the-cw-greg-berlanti-pilot-order-1201977551/

Quote

Should “Black Lightning” go to series, it would mark the fifth DC superhero show from Berlanti at the CW, which is currently home to “Arrow,” “The Flash,” DC’s Legends of Tomorrow” and Supergirl,” which have all been renewed for the 2017-2018 season.

If “Black Lightning” is greenlit for 2017-2018, sources close to the network explain that the shows would be staggered throughout the year, rather than scheduling five separate nights of superhero programming.

Edited by tv echo
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I'm usually good at quoting others when I'm responding, but I've just come home after surgery and am woozy from my pain meds, and so I can't remember where the original discussion was-it was about Smallville and Chloe kicking Dinah's butt when Allison returned.

Anyhoo. What I want to say is, (and I'm finding it is unpopular) that I LOVED Alaina Huffman's Dinah/Black Canary-not only was she an expert in hand to hand combat, she had her own canary cry, and she ROCKED those fishnet stockings like nobody's bidnez!

She and Oliver never got together and I don't recall anyone getting up in arms about Ollie and Chloe being married. 

So, no, I don't think her Black Canary was bad or the worst and I thought she was awesome.

Not to mention that Chloe had a girl crush on her when they first tussled-Dinah had been duped by Lex into working for him.

So I don't see why these stupid show runners can't subvert and show the story that works, was working. There are enough people that were involved with Smallville that have and are working on this show, to know what happened with the former. And if the COMIC!! is what they wanted, they should have recast Laurel, right after the screen test or pilot because it was clear she wasn't working-just like they recast Martha after the initial pilot with Annette O'Toole.  These assholes had time. They have just proven what liars and hacks they are. In the season four DVD is the ComicCon panel, where they are all happy and gushing that the pairing of Oliver and Felicity won at the MTV or People's Choice award and thanked the fans for making it happen or supporting the pair. 

And a year later, the current back talking and bullshit and shenanigans that is going on.

And this is coming from someone who isn't a shipper, but can see a pairing that was working and didn't need to be destroyed. 

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

She and Oliver never got together and I don't recall anyone getting up in arms about Ollie and Chloe being married. 
 

You must not have hung out on TWOP during Smallville's run. As I recall, Chlarkers were proclaiming Chlollie couldn't/shouldn't happen because Ollie/Dinah were comics (mostly they didn't want Chloe with Ollie because it negated Chlark and Chlois ever happening). Comic fanboys claimed it couldn't happen because Ollie had to be with Dinah AND Clois shippers claimed the same thing because it validated their claim to Clois over Chlark since Comic Pairing had to triumph. Plus there were people who simply hated Chloe because Clark should never need help and how dare this non character person have an important role I'm Clark's story!

Quote

And if the COMIC!! is what they wanted, they should have recast Laurel, right after the screen test or pilot because it was clear she wasn't working-just like they recast Martha after the initial pilot with Annette O'Toole

I've posted this before but waaaay back in the Summer after S1 Y2John (Canadagraphs) posted on IMDb that the EPs wanted to get rid of KC from the start. From what he said, the knew she didn't work after they filmed the pilot and wanted to recast or remove the character entirely from the show but the network (CW or CBS not sure) wouldn't let them.

These idiots have made a lot of mistakes no doubt but, some of their stupidity is based on BTS stuff, like getting stuck with an actress they didn't want. 

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3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

You must not have hung out on TWOP during Smallville's run. As I recall, Chlarkers were proclaiming Chlollie couldn't/shouldn't happen because Ollie/Dinah were comics (mostly they didn't want Chloe with Ollie because it negated Chlark and Chlois ever happening). Comic fanboys claimed it couldn't happen because Ollie had to be with Dinah AND Clois shippers claimed the same thing because it validated their claim to Clois over Chlark since Comic Pairing had to triumph. Plus there were people who simply hated Chloe because Clark should never need help and how dare this non character person have an important role I'm Clark's story!

I've posted this before but waaaay back in the Summer after S1 Y2John (Canadagraphs) posted on IMDb that the EPs wanted to get rid of KC from the start. From what he said, the knew she didn't work after they filmed the pilot and wanted to recast or remove the character entirely from the show but the network (CW or CBS not sure) wouldn't let them.

These idiots have made a lot of mistakes no doubt but, some of their stupidity is based on BTS stuff, like getting stuck with an actress they didn't want. 

Oh I was! I admit I stayed away from the shipping threads.  And I mostly lurked.

I just ranted and bitched about bringing on Doomsday, Darkseid, and the Pink Pestilence.

And swooning over the pretty.

Chloe was one of the best things about Smallville for me.

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2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Once again, I checked to see what clips The CW picked to get people to watch their superhero shows on The CW App (I laughed at the Arrow pick)...

Bahahaha. Gripping stuff.

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6 hours ago, tv echo said:

Once again, I checked to see what clips The CW picked to get people to watch their superhero shows on The CW App (I laughed at the Arrow pick)...

Okay I want to get up to date with LOT simply because of that Malcolm Damien Dharhk clip haha.

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Malcolm Merlyn vs Damian Darhk with Rip manipulating is hilarious.  Rene eating a super big burger?  Explains why Arrow is in the lowest slot of the 4 shows.

Edited by statsgirl
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Malcolm and Darhk were being manipulated by "Phil" which makes it even more hilarious since Rip lost his memories and thinks he's a hippie film maker. 

The villain focused episode of LoT last week was better than I expected since I didn't like those villains on their original shows. It was actually a fun episode and getting to see the motivation of the villains always helps with the story. 

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11 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I've posted this before but waaaay back in the Summer after S1 Y2John (Canadagraphs) posted on IMDb that the EPs wanted to get rid of KC from the start. From what he said, the knew she didn't work after they filmed the pilot and wanted to recast or remove the character entirely from the show but the network (CW or CBS not sure) wouldn't let them.

These idiots have made a lot of mistakes no doubt but, some of their stupidity is based on BTS stuff, like getting stuck with an actress they didn't want. 

I saw him reiterate that story on IMDB a couple of months ago, but this time, he also hinted that something went down that broke the camel's back in season 4 and that's when the network finally gave them the green light to kill her off. Sadly, he didn't elaborate on what 'the final straw' was. Oh, to be a fly on the wall...

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I find it interesting that KC's "Arrowverse series regular" contract is apparently just going to amount to four appearances on Arrow.  Unless it was a multi-year contract.  I mean, she could still appear on Flash, but that's looking less and less likely.

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