Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[tennisgurl]

I really don't get the placing of the cross over either. You would think they would want to hit hard while they had new viewers interested, instead of giving them a long break to forget about the other shows. Of course, I generally think the season breaks are weird and random, so what do I know?

Can I just say that, in my humble opinion, Legends is kicking all kinds of ass this season? The characters are all working (Nate, who was the most pointless character of the season for awhile, is even growing on me), the villains are way more intimidating and competent than they were before, and the plots are lots of comic book fun. No pointless drama, no characters keeping secrets for no reason, its just likable characters hanging out and having adventures. Last nights episode was delightful. I hope its audience grows, it deserves it.

[tv echo]

Interview with MG (also includes LoT 210 spoiler, only transcribed Arrow comments below)...

Legends Getting “Legion of Doom” Episode + Injustice 2 Beta!
Published on Jan 24, 2017, by DC Entertainment

-- On Laurel showing up at the end of 509, MG: "Uh, we always try to end the midseason finale with a little bit of a cliffhanger. I think, for us, our best one was when Ra's, you know, stabbed Oliver and kicked him off a mountaintop... (interviewer interjected, "when he died?") Exactly, exactly. So, you know, we're always looking kind of, you know - that's sort of where the bar is for us. Um, so we thought, 'oh, this will - this will get people curious.'"

-- MG: "You know, the big challenge facing Oliver in the second half of the year is, he's trying to be a more optimistic person. He's trying to evolve and grow, both as a mayor and a man and as a hero, but, uh, the threat of Prometheus and the nature of Prometheus' agenda keeps threatening to sort of pull him back... He's basically a guy who's like trying to take a step forward and the past is like grabbing him by the ankles and yanking him backwards. Uh, so the big question, you know, in everyone's mind is going to be, 'Can Oliver finally break free of his past?'" 

-- Interviewer commented that the character Oliver saw at the end of 509, Laurel, is someone who definitely wants to keep bringing him back into his past, and MG responded: "Very, very true. Very, very true. I will say, there's no - there's no, uh - there's no time travel, uh, explanation there to be had." On whether Laurel is a ghost, MG: "She's not a ghost." 

Edited January 25, 2017 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

Finals:

[Morrigan2575]

Wow, so Flash didn't adjust up. Is this the first official time it's dropped below 1.0 in the demo?

[Starfish35]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Wow, so Flash didn't adjust up. Is this the first official time it's dropped below 1.0 in the demo?

Yes I think so.

Ratings history

Edited January 25, 2017 by Starfish35

[Mellowyellow]

What happened to it? There's nothing offensive about it that would have made people quit!

[Velocity23]

Maybe people gave the show till midseason finale to decide if they are sticking with it or dropping it. 

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Maybe people gave the show till midseason finale to decide if they are sticking with it or dropping it. 

Either this or Chico did a terrible job of reminding people that the shows were coming back...

[Velocity23]

Did they even have a cliffhanger? Because i didnt any chatter about it like i did during 3x09 and 3x10 for Arrow. 

[wonderwall]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

Did they even have a cliffhanger? Because i didnt any chatter about it like i did during 3x09 and 3x10 for Arrow. 

No cliffhanger. Just Iris possibly dying?

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

Did they even have a cliffhanger? Because i didnt any chatter about it like i did during 3x09 and 3x10 for Arrow. 

Barry finds out Iris dies in 5 months.  Gets an apartment and moves in with her. 

I thought it was a really nice mid season finale. 

[Velocity23]

It sounds too nicely packaged honestly.  It should end on a shock note. 

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Either this or Chico did a terrible job of reminding people that the shows were coming back...

But Supergirl didn't really have a drop. They came back in the middle between their last 2 non-crossover episodes (0.7 & 0.9).

Even LoT pulled a normal number as it was hitting between 0.6 - 0.7 for most of the season.

I suppose it could be people didn't realize it was back, or people just didn't care that it was back.

[BkWurm1]

Personally I know I'm not that interested in if they will save Iris since I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, of course, which makes the rest of the season treading water.  Also I'm tired of Barry traveling in time.  Can we just have stuff happening in Central City right now?

[Cleanqueen]

Both 3x09 and 3x10 were a snoozefest, I've never been this bored with flash but at this point I  might just stop watching live. Iris and Barry are so boring together, frankly speaking all the relationships on this show are boring. The only one I somewhat liked is Wally and Jesse, which is odd cause they're kids but they seem to have the best chemistry on the show. At this point I'd like Barry to take a hiatus and Wally run things for a bit. 

[Mellowyellow]

I have a very strange relationship with The Flash. it was the first of the franchise that I watched so I'd never drop it but I'm really detached from it. 

I'm completely neutral about everything that happens on the show but seeing as I'm utterly miserable about Olicity I want the WestAllen fans to be happy. Someone out in shipper world should be happy!

[Trini]

I think there will always be time travel on The Flash. It was there in the pilot; it's kind of built into the fabric of the show.

About the ratings; we'll have to see next week if this is just a dip or a trend. I wasn't expecting it to be as high as before the break.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

 

I think there will always be time travel on The Flash. It was there in the pilot; it's kind of built into the fabric of the show.

 

Yeah, by the bad guy!  I aspire for Barry to be better, lol.  

I just got around to watching the episode today and I was looking at the Barry and Iris's loft.  It looks WAAAY different than it did in the midseason fianle.  I now think that they redressed Arrow's loft only for that episode an then probably finished building another one for The Flash.  There's now extra rooms off the main living area plus stairs for the bedroom where as before it looked like just one big open room.  

[ruby24]

Yeah, I agree about the loft. I think that's a brand new set after all.

Which also reinforces the notion that they're probably not planning to break Barry and Iris up any time soon.

Edited January 26, 2017 by ruby24

[Sakura12]

The problem with the Flash this season is there isn't much mystery, Iris isn't going to die and Barry's going to use time travel shenanigans to "fix" time. Or they'll just do a repeat of the last two season and instead of Barry going back in time to save his mother, he does it for Iris while screwing up everyone's lives all over again. LoT may be cheesy but at least I'm surprised by some of their developments, like last episode with Rip being tortured by the LoD. 

[Proteus]

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

What happened to it? There's nothing offensive about it that would have made people quit!

Maybe some people who have Neilson boxes didn't watch but who knows how many viewers the show still has that don't have those special boxes.

That said,  I do feel Flash is losing its way. They've ruined Barry with all his selfish time traveling. I no longer see him as a hero. I see him as someone who abuses their power for their own selfish gain and then has to clean up their mistakes for a season. Savitar is the weakest big bad so far. Another speedster whose just a CGI image. This show refuses to move past evil speedsters as the big bad. TPTB tried to make it seem like Alchemy would be a major threat this season but he was nothing but Savitars puppet.

I can't believe the whole back half of the season is about SAVE IRIS. I know they don't have the guts to kill her off so I find all of this to be a waste of time. I'm only worried about who will be sacrificed for Iris to live. 

[BkWurm1]

And now I just finished watching LoT and that might have been my favorite episode.   It was hilariously fun, had a lot of stakes, moved the plot ahead, and had great character moment between unexpected characters.  I loved everything about it.  Damien Dahrk and Malcolm Merlyn are total hams and yet still are menacing.  Rip aka Phil was a great twist.  The show even owned it's casting problem  with Vandal Savage in script!   

[kismet]

6 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

I never understood why they do the crossovers right before they go on their winter break. I think they should do the crossovers after they comeback. This way the audience that is staying would be a lot higher. 

I always thought they would be better in January to bring it back, right before sweeps. I also always thought that perhaps if they found a good story that could even extend it beyond just one week. Maybe make it more of an event than just a gimmick, like it feels now. I actually think the smaller crossovers are actually more successful in bringing/retaining audiences like they do with the Chicago Series on NBC. They seem to have croosvers every so many weeks. I know about them and I don't even watch the shows. So have a Arrow one in the fall and then a Flash one in the Spring. With SG & LoT crossovers also spread out.

6 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Yeah, really. I think with audience viewing habits these days, people just can't stand hiatuses and breaks, etc. They ought to plan the big attention getting episodes for after the breaks.

Or have it be the Winter finale for all of them. Finish it off in a bang. But as it is now, not sure what the point of scheduling it in December when people's schedules are all over the place with holidays. Maybe they think it will get the new audiences to binge over the break. But I don't think the way they do the crossovers encourages that.

[kismet]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Which also reinforces the notion that they're probably not planning to break Barry and Iris up any time soon.

I wouldn't bank on a new set meaning anything. When they break-up or take time, one of them will just live there while the other moves out. But I am glad they finally moved out of their Dad's house & couch.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Which also reinforces the notion that they're probably not planning to break Barry and Iris up any time soon.

That, and the fact that she in the show's intro for the rest of the season. There are other clues, but I think those are the bigger ones.

[insomniadreams88]

Question: Was it ever definitively said that KC is going to be on The Flash or is it just because of the deal across all the shows that people are saying she's going to be? I think KC said something at a convention about being BS on both Arrow and The Flash but I could be remembering wrong? 

[Chaser]

It was definitely said. I'm surprised it wasn't a brief appearance to segue to Arrow.

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, Chaser said:

It was definitely said. I'm surprised it wasn't a brief appearance to segue to Arrow.

That's what I thought it would be. Expected the last scene in last night's Flash to be just that, not Gypsy coming for H.R. 

Maybe they'll redeem her on The Flash and prove Oliver right. Or she's going to escape ARGUS and terrorize CC once again, they'll have to lock her back up in the pipeline and Oliver will still say, "But maybe there's some Laurel in her!" (Or more likely, Arrow just won't care about her anymore.) 

[Trini]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

It was definitely said. I'm surprised it wasn't a brief appearance to segue to Arrow.

It's been mentioned by the producers that Cassidy is supposed to appear -- but that's all. No spoilers or anything else has confirmed that.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Trini
Clarify sentence

[BkWurm1]

They used her so much more on Arrow than expected, maybe they don't need to put her on the other shows to fulfill the contract?  

[Proteus]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

That, and the fact that she in the show's intro for the rest of the season. There are other clues, but I think those are the bigger ones.

How does Iris being in the shows recap at the beginning of the show guarantee anything?

KC is supposed to have an arc in LOT according to MG but they are almost finished filming this season so I don't see how she'd fit in.

[Starfish35]

Yeah I don't see any kind of "arc" happening this season.  They're filming episode 15 now and they only have two more to go.  Doesn't mean she can't still show up, but I can't see it being anything major.

[Velocity23]

Was it a storyline for KC or Laurel? Because Laurel can be involved in Saras SL without showing up on screen. 

[bijoux]

9 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

And now I just finished watching LoT and that might have been my favorite episode.   It was hilariously fun, had a lot of stakes, moved the plot ahead, and had great character moment between unexpected characters.  I loved everything about it.  Damien Dahrk and Malcolm Merlyn are total hams and yet still are menacing.  Rip aka Phil was a great twist.  The show even owned it's casting problem  with Vandal Savage in script!   

LoT didn't really work for me the few times I tried it. But now you're making me want to watch it. Why are you being like this?

[Velocity23]

Spoiler

 

returning to LOT. I always think graveyard when they all think on a farm in Langley. 

[emarasmoak]

Yes, I agree with this. The main reason why I find Flash so boring is this. Flash's mission this year is stopping a big bad that he created and focusing in his friends/ family's problems (he needs to save Iris, Wally or his mom, or stop people becoming a meta as in Flashpoint). He is not really a hero saving his city, Is the city really in danger because of Savitar? Barry is just trying to clean up the mess that he created, and that is not that much interesting to me (also applied to Prometheus in Arrow).

Also so bored of all these speedsters and HR. I miss the VOTW

16 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

14 hours ago, Proteus said:

They've ruined Barry with all his selfish time traveling. I no longer see him as a hero. I see him as someone who abuses their power for their own selfish gain and then has to clean up their mistakes for a season. Savitar is the weakest big bad so far. Another speedster whose just a CGI image. This show refuses to move past evil speedsters as the big bad.

 

[Proteus]

7 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah I don't see any kind of "arc" happening this season.  They're filming episode 15 now and they only have two more to go.  Doesn't mean she can't still show up, but I can't see it being anything major.

Yeah. It doesn't seem like they'll have time to write her in.

35 minutes ago, emarasmoak said:

Yes, I agree with this. The main reason why I find Flash so boring is this. Flash's mission this year is stopping a big bad that he created and focusing in his friends/ family's problems (he needs to save Iris, Wally or his mom, or stop people becoming a meta as in Flashpoint). He is not really a hero saving his city, Is the city really in danger because of Savitar? Barry is just trying to clean up the mess that he created, and that is not that much interesting to me (also applied to Prometheus in Arrow).

Also so bored of all these speedsters and HR. I miss the VOTW

It's such a repeat of season 2. The Flash has called into a pattern of doing the same basic plot each season.

14 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

And now I just finished watching LoT and that might have been my favorite episode.   It was hilariously fun, had a lot of stakes, moved the plot ahead, and had great character moment between unexpected characters.  I loved everything about it.  Damien Dahrk and Malcolm Merlyn are total hams and yet still are menacing.  Rip aka Phil was a great twist.  The show even owned it's casting problem  with Vandal Savage in script!   

LOT is my favorite of the DC shows. Sara is my favorite Arrowverse character so I'm glad she's the lead here and team leader. But I'm also so happy to have Rip back. I grew so tired of Darhk and Malcolm on Arrow but I'm enjoying them here. I also loved all the comedy bits this week.

[BkWurm1]

10 hours ago, bijoux said:

LoT didn't really work for me the few times I tried it. But now you're making me want to watch it. Why are you being like this?

Last season was rocky but still had some great character interaction and since I was not super invested, I was able to forgive the more trying aspects of it.  This year, I've really missed Rip but otherwise it's been so much more entertaining, occasionally really goofy but that's part of the charm.  

It doesn't always have the strongest plotting (what Arrowverse show does?) but it really does better with it's ensemble cast than any of the shows.  

7 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

  Hide contents

 

returning to LOT. I always think graveyard when they all think on a farm in Langley. 

Ha!  I always think of the CIA headquarters.  

[tennisgurl]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

but it really does better with it's ensemble cast than any of the shows.  

That's really the thing that I have enjoyed most about LoT, as opposed to the other Arrowverse shows. It always feels like the other shows end up with too many characters, or they get stuck in the background, or hitting the same character or story notes over and over. LoT has the largest ensemble of all the shows, but its also the on that uses its characters the best. It mixes different characters and dynamics, gives most of the main heroes their own storylines, character arcs, and episodes that focus on them. Even in episodes where a character isn't the focus, they get to do something interesting. Maybe because, unlike Flash or Arrow, it doesn't really have a main character. I guess you could make the case that Rip or Sara is the main character, but its really more of an ensemble piece, which works really well here.

Honestly, the whole show has become a sort of character rehabilitation center for me. It takes characters that I either disliked, or had no real opinion of (except for Sara, who I've always loved) and made me like or even love them. Even Malcolm Merlyn, a guy I was 100% sick of, is entertaining this season. Maybe because they spend less time coming up with ways for the main characters to angst, and spend more time having fun and going on comic book adventures.

[Trini]

14 hours ago, Proteus said:

How does Iris being in the shows recap at the beginning of the show guarantee anything?

 

No one said it guarantees anything. However, it's unlikely the showrunners are building the rest the season around Barry saving his ex-girlfriend. I think it does indicate that Iris and the WestAllen relationship will more important and/or prominent going forward.

[wonderwall]

Just now, Trini said:

No one said it guarantees anything. However, it's unlikely the showrunners are building the rest the season around Barry saving his ex-girlfriend. I think it does indicate that Iris and the WestAllen relationship will more important and/or prominent going forward.

No. The show-runners are building the season around Barry saving the woman he loves. Whether they're together or not is semantics.

[Trini]

So, anyone want to bet the Black Siren breakout get only a one line mention (if it gets mentioned at all) on The Flash? Guggenheim didn't bother syncing up Arrow with The Flash's storylines last season with Barry in the cemetery scene; I have a feeling he didn't really talk through how Black Siren would affect both shows.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Trini

[Sakura12]

Is Laurel even going to be on LoT? I haven't heard anything about it. They are filming episode 15 now and they only have 2 more after that. Would they really throw in a Laurel storyline in the last 2 episodes that are going to close out the season? Unless she filmed something when she was last in Vancouver, which seemed like it was for a short visit and would probably only be enough time for quick cameo. 

[kismet]

LL is dead. But I do wonder if part of Legions of Doom's plan is going to undo a part of her death. Therefore, the waverider will rescue her in their finale and they'll find some exhile for her similar to Roy on Arrow. So she'll be alive again, but not able to live in SC.

Or perhaps the lack of buzz and ratings in arrow will dash any plans they might have had.

But there has been no concrete evidence or spoiler that LOT has any plans to utilize LL except as a namedrop plot device for SLs pain and revenge against DD.

[insomniadreams88]

8 minutes ago, kismet said:

LL is dead. But I do wonder if part of Legions of Doom's plan is going to undo a part of her death. Therefore, the waverider will rescue her in their finale and they'll find some exhile for her similar to Roy on Arrow. So she'll be alive again, but not able to live in SC.

It would be hilarious if LoT saves Laurel just like BS said she was ... and then no one believes that it's her. "No, sorry, heard that before. Try again." "But - " "No."  

Edited January 27, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[Starfish35]

Returning ratings for DC shows:

• Supergirl - 0.8, 2.65 million viewers.  Decreased 11% in the demo (from 0.9 to 0.8) but increased 2% in total viewers (from 2.60 million to 2.65 million) from last non-crossover episode (2.07 airing 11/22/16).
• The Flash - 0.9, 2.68 million viewers.  Decreased 25% in the demo (from 1.2 to 0.9) and decreased 15% in total viewers (from 3.14 million viewers to 2.68 million viewers) from mid-season finale (3.09 airing 12/06/16).
• Legends of Tomorrow - 0.6, 1.74 million viewers.  Decreased 14% in the demo (from 0.7 to 0.6) and 13% in total viewers (from 2.00 million viewers to 1.74 million viewers) from mid-season finale (2.08 airing 12/08/16).
• Arrow - 0.6, 1.68 million viewers.  Decreased 14% in the demo (from 0.7 to 0.6) and 13% in total viewers (from 1.94 million viewers to 1.68 million viewers) from mid-season finale (5.09 airing 12/07/16).

Ratings sources:  Spotted Ratings, ShowBuzzDaily.  

If anyone knows where to find the unrounded numbers, I'd be interested to see what changes that made to these results.

[Proteus]

8 hours ago, kismet said:

LL is dead. But I do wonder if part of Legions of Doom's plan is going to undo a part of her death. Therefore, the waverider will rescue her in their finale and they'll find some exhile for her similar to Roy on Arrow. So she'll be alive again, but not able to live in SC.

Or perhaps the lack of buzz and ratings in arrow will dash any plans they might have had.

But there has been no concrete evidence or spoiler that LOT has any plans to utilize LL except as a namedrop plot device for SLs pain and revenge against DD.

I remember them specifically saying Laurel would have an arc on LOT around the 100th episode party for Arrow. I'd guess things changed and they now want to keep BS on Arrow.

Heres the comment of MG's:

https://moviepilot.com/p/black-canary-legends-of-tomorrow-laurel-lance/4145121

"Katie is a far more interesting question because we actually have a story for Katie on “Legends of Tomorrow” that I am super excited about. It could be the thing I’m most excited about. But it’s early, and we’re not ready to spoil what that’s going to be. I think it could be really, really awesome."

Edited January 27, 2017 by Proteus

[Morrigan2575]

That doesn't say Arc, it says Story. She probably gets 1 episode on LoT and 1 episode on Flash.

[Sakura12]

When though? They only have 2 more eps left to film. I can't imagine them using their last 2 eps to do a Laurel storyline when they are probably using those too ramp up the LoT vs LoD. 

[dtissagirl]

I figure they're gonna go after Merlyn, I don't know, maybe time traveling to the recent past [anytime in the past 10 years?], and Laurel happens to be alive there, and Sara will be tempted to save her, and then doesn't.