Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[apinknightmare]

I know the all black outfit and black mask helps, but I like that I can't tell when it's Charlie Cox and when it's his double on DD.

 

I can't tell when anyone is anything on that show it's so damn dark, haha.

[Starfish35]

Ok, I've finished one episode of Daredevil, and......are you guys going to kill me if I say I'm not in love with it?

The acting is fantastic - it's not that. And yes, the fight scenes (what you can see of them) are good. But honestly I felt like it kind of dragged. I don't know why exactly.

Maybe it will get better? I don't know. But I know when the second episode started in medias res, I decided I had other things I'd rather watch tonight.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Starfish35

[calliope1975]

I can't tell when anyone is anything on that show it's so damn dark, haha.

 

Heh! I think after making it through The Walking Dead where there were several scenes that I couldn't see anything on the screen, DD feels like it's shot with a spotlight. :D

 

You don't have to like it Starfish! Not every show is for everybody. (I could never get into or like Seinfeld. Try bringing that up in conversation.) 

[Sakura12]

I didn't like the first few episodes either. But I always give shows at least 5 episodes to convince me to keep watching. After the 5th episode I started enjoying it and now I love it. I have 2 more episodes left.

 

I think what I like is that the fight scenes are more realistic then most comic book show fights. Matt gets winded and tired but just has that inner drive to keep going. It is really dark, probably to hide their low production values. If you adjust the brightness on your tv it helps a bit. 

[tv echo]

Warning!  If you haven't watched Daredevil, episode 1.05, then this will be spoilerish for you (I haven't seen it)...

 

DAREDEVIL 1.05 ‘World on Fire’ Review
April 11th, 2015 Blair Marnell
http://www.craveonline.com/tv/reviews/845773-daredevil-1-05-world-fire-review

 

I'm posting this article because I thought it was funny (and typical) that after kinda dissing "Olicity" on Arrow and the CW, the writer goes on

to enthuse about Matt and Claire's relationship on Daredevil.

Edited April 12, 2015 by tv echo

[tennisgurl]

I`m about six episodes in, and I love Daredevil. I see a lot of people online already comparing it to Arrow, so I want to see where it goes, before I make an official statement! 

 

I do appreciate the lack of an "official love interest" for the hero. As of now, he does not seem to be "destined" to end up with anyone in particular. 

[BkWurm1]

Heh! I think after making it through The Walking Dead where there were several scenes that I couldn't see anything on the screen, DD feels like it's shot with a spotlight. :D

 

You don't have to like it Starfish! Not every show is for everybody. (I could never get into or like Seinfeld. Try bringing that up in conversation.) 

Raises hand.  I couldn't get into Seinfeld either.  Sure it's comedic but the show never managed to make me care about the characters and that makes everything a hell of a lot less interesting or funny.  

[Lokiberry]

I`m about six episodes in, and I love Daredevil. I see a lot of people online already comparing it to Arrow, so I want to see where it goes, before I make an official statement! 

 

I do appreciate the lack of an "official love interest" for the hero. As of now, he does not seem to be "destined" to end up with anyone in particular. 

I've seen the whole thing (what is sleep?), and I think it's just un-freakin-believable. The fight scenes are off. the. hook. The acting is incredible, especially D'onofrio, holy crap! And, the writing; my god, the writing! Daredevil is to Arrow what Arrow is to Saturday morning cartoons. It's not even in the same league.

[FurryFury]

I liked the pilot, although it could some editing (a few scenes felt way too long). Looking forward to continue watching after I'll finish today's work (sigh). I especially loved the balance between the obvious heroism/idealism inherent to superhero genre and the dark, noir-ish setting. This is something I really dig - not too dark, not too cheesy.

Edited April 13, 2015 by FurryFury

[pootlus]

Okay now you've all sold me, I'll check out Daredevil (now that Australia FINALLY has Netflix).

[Ariah]

I'm on the 5th episode of Daredevil right now.

I like it quite a lot.

 

I'd love for the Arrow production team to take notes on the fight scenes - they're smooth and realistic, but still retain some doze of "super" moves, still not over the top.

I must say I'm a bit fed up with Arrow's fight scenes, they're terribly repetitive (even though the extra materials show that they should not be). I guess Oliver's been using the bow as a bludgeoning weapon too much, not doing the actual archery for a while...

 

Anyhow, I'm loving Daredevil, there's not a character who bothers me. Females are great. Villains are good. Keep it up show.

[tv echo]

Maybe the length of the season has something to do with it?  Daredevil is only 13 episodes, I believe.  Arrow is 23 episodes per season.  Similarly, Agent Carter had a much shorter season than - and is much better than (imo) - Agents of SHIELD.  A shorter season means more time to spend on production quality and a tighter storyline.

 

Or it could be like The Flash and a lot of other shows - the first season is good because a lot of prior thought was put into it before it even aired.

Edited April 13, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

I'm finding the fight scenes on Daredevil super incredibly boring. Some of them feel stretched to me, lasting way past what they should. Maybe just so the episodes can clock the 58-60 minute mark? Idk, I keep getting distracted during the fights, and end up fast forwarding them. There's only so much patience I have for dudebros doing stage choreography without music. Especially if I see no narrative purpose on the fights being this long.

[Sakura12]

For me that's what makes them realistic. Fights are not finished that quickly especially if it's a bunch of guys. I like that they show Matt taking hits and getting tired. Arrow's fights may look cooler with all the fancy stunts on rooftops and trucks, but they are over to fast to be realistic. Arrow has no powers or enhancements but they make him appear more super hero then he should.  Not knocking on the show because I did enjoy the stunts last season.

 

What I also like is the women on the show have their own stories and are trying to do their own thing. Their lives don't revolve around the hero even when are attracted to him. Hopefully that continues because that didn't happen on Arrow. In Season 2 Felicity's life was in the lair, she barely did or had anything outside of it and I didn't like that. 

Edited April 13, 2015 by Sakura12

[apinknightmare]

I like that they show Matt taking hits and getting tired. Arrow's fights may look cooler with all the fancy stunts on rooftops and trucks, but they are over to fast to be realistic.

 

 

I'm thankful for that, because while I do appreciate the fact that Matt takes hits and gets tired, like dancingnancy, I think the fight sequences are boring too. 

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, the last thing I want from fictional fights is realism, actually. I want cool slick QUICK so I can go back to actual plotty things, with dialog and good lighting.

Edited April 13, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Ariah]

I get the point about a too long fight sequence, but I was still in awe watching the brawl (because it was a regular brawl, no fancy matrix ballet) in the corridor in episode 1.02.

(Then again, I liked Banshee for it's fight scenes ;))

[Sakura12]

What I also like is Matt isn't running around telling everyone who he is (like Barry) and accidentally told the one of the best people to tell, someone with medical knowledge to patch him up. 

 

As a martial artist myself, I enjoy watching fight scenes. As Ariah mentioned, the corridor fight in 1.02 was one of my favs. I'm a Banshee watcher too, those are brutal yet awesome fight scenes. They have plenty of plotty scenes too, the balance seems fine to me. Plus I also like how we are getting to know the villain as well. He's been used the right amount of time, slow buildup until he's out in the open. 

Edited April 13, 2015 by Sakura12

[tv echo]

Ant-Man's first full trailer...

 

Ant-Man Official Trailer #1 (2015) - Paul Rudd, Evangeline Lilly Marvel Movie HD
Published April 13, 2015

[Sakura12]

When I first heard about this movie, I thought it sounded stupid. But like usual Marvel adds the right amount of humor (like him bashing the name) to get me interested in watching it. The cliche serious and dangerous train fight scene was hilarious when they showed it was a Thomas the Train set. Marvel owns my wallet once again. I will probably go see this movie in the theater.

[dtissagirl]

One thing I'm appreciating about Daredevil is that the episodes aren't written towards the fight/stunt scenes. Arrow and Flash do that all the time, it drives me nuts. The most important scene of every Arrow/Flash episode, from a script and production standpoint, is the big fight/stunt/CGI scenes. Each episode has one or two action scene that the narrative needs to arrive at, and so a whole lot of story beats are set JUST SO they can get the characters to the point where that one scene happens. And these scenes aren't developing anyone, often times aren't even setting up anything else. They're just a point to reach.

 

[And then fandom -- EVERY EPISODE -- appropriates a totally different scene as the most important one. A character/relationship moment, every single time, which is hilarious in multiple ways.]

 

I still have 3 episodes to go, but on Daredevil the stunt-heavy scenes are used as your average regular story beat, not an end point to reach. Bless.

[Carrie Ann]

I'm really into Daredevil. We're on Episode 10, so only four to go and I'm already sad about it. I will say that I've found my attention drifting in the last few episodes and I think there are a few reasons for that.

 

One, I'm not AT ALL interested in Fisk or what D'Onofrio is doing there (based on what I'm seeing online, I think that's an unpopular opinion), so the episode centered on him and his flashbacks was not my favorite.

 

Two, the flashbacks in general are starting to bore me. Hey, guess what, they bore me on Arrow and they always have. I can understand their value, in both cases. I just wish that when it's not strictly necessary for origin story reasons, they'd leave them out, or limit them to just one scene for character development.

 

Three, I'm dissatisfied with what they're doing (or not doing) with the women on this show. I love Claire, I like Karen, I can't stand Vanessa. In general, there are very few women here, and they are all in the love interest position, or in subservient positions to men. And there were a number of places the EPs could have gender-swapped to have more women around. Ben Urich--I'm sure he's a comic character? But he could have been gender-swapped and we would have had another strong female, a women helping women storyline, and passed the Bechdel test.

 

And I fear they are going in a double triangle direction here, and I see nothing on-screen that calls for romance between Karen and Matt. I know it's in the comics, I get it. But they have no chemistry for me, and I actually do like the dynamic with Foggy and Karen. So a triangle with Matt in between them would make me dislike both Matt and Karen more--just like Oliver/Laurel w/r/t Tommy who I liked WAY less than I like Foggy. I have my fingers crossed that the EPs will pay attention to what works on screen and avoid going there in S2.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[dtissagirl]

Oh, definitely, the two women in Fisk's life -- his mother and Vanessa -- are clearly there to suffer so he can manpain to the sound of Yo Yo Ma playing Bach.

 

Fisk is the kind of villain I legit wish would disappear from ALL NARRATIVES ever. Middle aged white man in a powerful position with violent tendencies, but with a sadwoe backstory that ~made~ him like that. Yuck. It's everything I find uninteresting in fiction all packed up in a cliché for a middle aged white actor to chew scenery with. Yawn.

Edited April 13, 2015 by dancingnancy

[manbearpig]

I've seen the first six episodes of Daredevil and I like it. But, truth be told, I'd rather be watching a romantic comedy with Foggy and Karen. They're just so fun together.

[FurryFury]

I really like Karen and the fact she has her own storyline and she decides to be a hero for herself (and by being a hero I mean not dressing up as a vigilante but doing something a normal person can do). I'm not as sold on Claire though, it's annoying all of her screentime is with Matt and I FF the romance scenes, I just don't buy it.

Foggy is also great and I really feel like there is not enough Matt/Karen/Foggy scenes, they are the best part of the show for me.

[kismet]

For Marvel & Avenger fans... Jimmy Kimmel has most of the main cast on right now. He's devoting his show hour to the movie.

[Lokiberry]

I hope Guggenheim, et al, have seen that trailer for Ant Man and are kicking themselves. They could have beat Marvel to the punch. They could have established their own shrinking super hero months before Marvel had a chance, but no, they had to have a third rate Iron Man ripoff instead. Morons.

[MarkHB]

I hope Guggenheim, et al, have seen that trailer for Ant Man and are kicking themselves. They could have beat Marvel to the punch. They could have established their own shrinking super hero months before Marvel had a chance, but no, they had to have a third rate Iron Man ripoff instead. Morons.

 

I think that what happened (and I've said this in other threads, hopefully not in this one) was that they had the whole plotline planned with Ted Kord and Blue Beetle before the moguls said "you can't use Blue Beetle, but how about the Atom?"  So they just swapped in Ray's name and hero-name in place of Beetle's, but kept the concept the same (to date).  So essentially, IMO, their Atom is what they planned for Blue Beetle, except under a different name.  It's somewhat disappointing to me (so far), because except for the Flash crossover I didn't really start watching Arrow until the second half of this season, I'm really just watching for the Atom and at this point he still isn't the (real) Atom.

[Sakura12]

I think DC just really sucks at planning. 

[nksarmi]

I think that what happened (and I've said this in other threads, hopefully not in this one) was that they had the whole plotline planned with Ted Kord and Blue Beetle before the moguls said "you can't use Blue Beetle, but how about the Atom?"  So they just swapped in Ray's name and hero-name in place of Beetle's, but kept the concept the same (to date).  So essentially, IMO, their Atom is what they planned for Blue Beetle, except under a different name.  It's somewhat disappointing to me (so far), because except for the Flash crossover I didn't really start watching Arrow until the second half of this season, I'm really just watching for the Atom and at this point he still isn't the (real) Atom.

I think we will see him shrink though.  They have said over and over again, the suit is just the beginning.  And they already gave us the bit with the nanotechnology that can go in and shrink stuff and make it go away.  I honestly believe the shrinking is coming - just not sure when. 

[dtissagirl]

I think tonight's episode of Flash,

with the robot bees interacting with full sized people

, might be their test run on how to do teeny tiny perspective/interaction on a TV budget, without it looking like Ed Wood had something to do with it.

[CabotCove]

I'm on the 5th episode of Daredevil right now.

 

Has it been airing that long?, I haven't even watched the pilot.

 

I think we will see him shrink though.  They have said over and over again, the suit is just the beginning.  And they already gave us the bit with the nanotechnology that can go in and shrink stuff and make it go away.  I honestly believe the shrinking is coming - just not sure when.

 

I definately agree. With antman's likely upcoming success, it  might be just a matter of time before Ray shrinks

Edited April 14, 2015 by Conell

[apinknightmare]

Has it been airing that long?, I haven't even watched the pilot.

Netflix posts the whole season at once.

[Sakura12]

Has it been airing that long?, I haven't even watched the pilot.

 

It's on Netflix, they release the whole season at once. There is no waiting a week between eps, you can watch them whenever you want.

 

Also the first look at David Tennent as Kilgrave on AKA Jessica Jones.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2015 by Sakura12

[KirkB]

If Ray does shrink, and we don't know that he will because they might be wed to the pseudo-Iron Man thing, he'd better do it before Ant Man comes out or else people who are not comics fans and don't know the characters will complain they're just copying Marvel.

[dtissagirl]

Now that I'm done with Daredevil, all I can think of is how Laurel could have been Matt. Because THIS is how you take a lawyer, give them a backstory that includes terrible loss and martial arts training, emotionally attach them to a disenfranchised neighborhood [Hell's Kitchen = the Glades], and have them pick up vigilantism after tragedy strikes [battle of NY = The Undertaking/Tommy's death].

[Carrie Ann]

Wow, yes! I don't know why I'm so obsessed with alternate Laurel origin stories when I honestly DGAF about her character. Maybe it's because I'm continually astonished at how the writers basically made the wrong choice at every turn with her.

 

But anyway, the Lances should have lived in The Glades. It gives Laurel a stake and an ownership in this fight that Oliver doesn't have. It makes her whole CNRI thing more personal. To live in The Glades, we'd need Dinah to have a lower-paying job. So let's say, maybe a social worker or an agent for CPS or something; and she studied martial arts to protect herself and maybe even some of the people she worked with sometimes. Not a full-blown vigilante, but you know, a few beat-downs here and there. And then she could have taught her kids martial arts (or sent them to lessons) from a young age too--tough neighborhood, tough world, gotta protect yourself. Laurel grows up street-wise. And she and Sara are both scholarship kids at the prep school, and they both have an innate disdain for the rich kids, but then these charming a-holes end up sort of enamored with them, and eventually they come around and accept that some of the rich kids are okay and at least they throw good parties. 

 

And Laurel sees the shit both of her parents have to deal with in getting criminals through the justice system, in helping victims, and decides to go to law school, so she can come back and help people. And the whole time, she's moving up in the ranks of her kung fu school, mentors are taking her under their wing (ha ha), etc, so that she is already doing some vigilante stuff by the time Oliver gets back. They are at the same level, fighting skills-wise, and they each have their own missions and motivations and methods for being vigilantes.

 

Now, the problem still remains that the character I just described would be a poor fit for KC. But yeah, Daredevil gest it right when it comes to a lawyer/vigilante with a believable backstory and personal drive, and it's honestly just not that hard to come up with this stuff. The Arrow trio clearly spent like ZERO time thinking about Laurel/BC when conceiving the show, other than as Oliver's One True Love.

[Velocity23]

Emily Kinney talks about her Flash role

http://www.etonline.com/tv/162719_the_flash_emily_kinney_dishes_on_facing_off_against_felicity/

[statsgirl]

The Arrow trio clearly spent like ZERO time thinking about Laurel/BC when conceiving the show, other than as Oliver's One True Love.

I think that's true about most of their characters though other than Oliver, and then Barry for The Flash.  And they're absolutely floundering with Iris West.  Candace Patton's character is marginally more likable than Laurel but if she were off the show, nothing would fundamentally have changed. Even right now, Barry is the one living with Joe and iris is off with Eddie, who now has joined the rest of the cast in lying to her.

 

It's a strength of the shows that they pick what is good about the actors and run with it (DR's stoicism for Diggle, EBR's cute babbling, Willa Holland's tough act, CL's vulnerable Sara) but it's a weakness that they don't plan ahead for their secondary characters.

[wingster55]

I'd say Iris is more than marginally likable than Laurel.

And her role is quite significant if you look at the story beyond the single episode plot.

[FurryFury]

Not really. She's rather expendable, which is shown by the fact she seems to be the only person in Central City (and beyond, see Captain Cold and the cast of Arrow) to not know about Flash's identity. She doesn't have her own POV (even Laurel did!) or her own story. She's just there to be a love interest. Laurel at least had her BC destiny and lawyer stuff. Iris' journalism feels tacked on, and the show clearly doesn't care about it at all (if it did, they'd give her something similar to Karen's investigation arc on Daredevil).

That said, Iris still manages to be more likable than Laurel, but this is all the actress' achievement, she's doing all she can with this rather thankless character.

Edited April 14, 2015 by FurryFury

[Chaser]

It's interesting to look at S1 Iris and S1 Laurel. I get why Laurel wasn't let in on the secret. Her and Oliver were on (rightfully so) on horrible terms. There wasn't any trust there. And while Laurel wasn't in the DA's office then, she was still an officer of the courts and the daughter of a police officer. No favors were given to Laurel by keeping her in the dark, but it made sense in the narrative.

 

IMO it makes no sense to keep the secret from Iris. She is his best friend, and that isn't just something that has been said but it was shown right from the get go. Iris should have been the first person Barry went to about his powers. Externally we know that Iris is being kept in the dark because you have to add romantic tension. Internally they won't tell her because they have to protect 'poor defenseless Iris.' It's BS. Girl can handle herself just fine.

 

I didn't like Laurel from the start so I was glad they didn't bring her in but I'm Team Iris on Flash because I hate how everyone is lying to her and I hate how Barry isn't respecting her.

[apinknightmare]

I honestly could not care less about Iris, but they've (unsurprisingly, IMO) mishandled her character so far. And I'm on her side just because all these morons who claim to love her keep lying to her for no good reason (yes, I know they have their reasons, and they're all stupid).

[Chaser]

I would really really like to see Iris interact with Team Flash. I want to see the clueless expression on her face when they talk science and I want her to try and make awkward science jokes to fit in with the group. Let her embrace the Lois Lane role and have her and Barry investigate together. Have her find out who the Flash is by Barry before a villain let's her in on it.. But if she does find out about the lies from another source, don't let her be angry right away. Let her be hurt and betrayed.

 

They can fix her narrative, they just have to get her in on the secret.

[bettername2come]

Random observation: I was rewatching Arrow 1x20 and when Yao Fei comes back, we have this exchange:

 

Oliver: How did you escape?

Yao Fei: I didn't.

 

They used the same exchange on The Flash a few episodes ago between Barry and Cisco. Might be a coincidence, but you can never tell with these shows.

Edited April 15, 2015 by bettername2come

[kismet]

They should let Iris in on the secret because it makes no sense to keep her out of it besides plot. Its just like them lying to QL. Lying to main characters makes sense if you are keeping them safe, but then it becomes problematic when you're asking multiple people to lie to the same person to just keep them in the dark. Its just dumb. At least in Arrow, OQ was very hesitant to tell people his secret. He actually only told one person (Thea) willingly and that was only after MM twisted his arm to do it. Everybody else on Arrow found out through urgency d/t medical emergency or a villain told them. So OQ actually demonstrated through his secrecy that he was trying to protect them until it became necessary to tell them. BA on the other hand seems like he basically tells everybody else without much hesitation, so I don't buy that lying to Iris is just too protect her. Someone needs to tell her, or the show is going to be making a huge mistake. Unless of course they have a secret plan as to why they are keeping her in the dark. But yea just tell her by the end of this season, we've already had a reveal that has been taken away.

[wonderwall]

I'm really really confused about the timing of this episode. 

 

It can't be after 3x18 because Felicity wouldn't act like that with a guy she's obviously not in love with (and she even admitted that to herself last episode) also I have a hard time believing she'd leave Starling while Roy is in jail and Quentin is trying to destroy Oliver...

 

It can't be after 3x17 because 3x18 was essentially the next day. 

 

It can't be after 3x16 because Felicity said Oliver was going to join the LoA (or am I mistaken?) even though he clearly decided by the end of the episode that he wasn't going to. 

 

It can't be after 3x15 because this episode is episode 1x18 of the Flash meaning it wasn't intended to take place right after episode 3x15. 

 

--So was this episode supposed to be between episode 3x16? Like Felicity went to Central while she was 'preoccupied' with Ray? THis just doesn't make sense whatsoever. 

[apinknightmare]

It doesn't make sense anywhere in their continuity. It most closely fits in somewhere in 3x16, but she didn't find out Ray's suit was working until 3x17, and she clearly knows it's working here.

[statsgirl]

I think this is supposed to be between the end of 317 when Felicity thanks Oliver, and the end scene with Ray meeting with the mayor, Lance and Laurel and taking an arrow for Felicity.  Ray and Felicity go to Cisco because Oliver short-circuited Ray's suit during 317.

 

Felicity is wearing the same coat but maybe that's the only one they've given her.

Edited April 15, 2015 by statsgirl

[formerlyfreedom]

I'm really really confused about the timing of this episode. 

 

It can't be after 3x18 because Felicity wouldn't act like that with a guy she's obviously not in love with (and she even admitted that to herself last episode) also I have a hard time believing she'd leave Starling while Roy is in jail and Quentin is trying to destroy Oliver...

 

It can't be after 3x17 because 3x18 was essentially the next day. 

 

It can't be after 3x16 because Felicity said Oliver was going to join the LoA (or am I mistaken?) even though he clearly decided by the end of the episode that he wasn't going to. 

 

It can't be after 3x15 because this episode is episode 1x18 of the Flash meaning it wasn't intended to take place right after episode 3x15. 

 

--So was this episode supposed to be between episode 3x16? Like Felicity went to Central while she was 'preoccupied' with Ray? THis just doesn't make sense whatsoever. 

 

The official release said "Note: Flash 1x18 takes places before Arrow 3x18." So we just have to imagine there is a wee bit more time in there somehow.