The Murder of Versace & the life of Cunanan: Full Case Discussion

[Aethera]

Since we're finally getting close to season 2, here's a thread to discuss the entire Versace murder case and all of Cunanan’s spree, so that we don't drop spoilers into the individual Episode Threads.

[Florinaldo]

It was disconcerting at first to see Versace's boyfriend treated so dismissively by people including the sister. It reminds us that gay couples had little status in those days: legal marriage was a long way off and even unconceivable. On top of that, I seem to remember that he got screwed by the family because the property left to him in GV's will actually belonged to the company, so he got only a fraction what had been provided for him. No legal standing meant no valid claim. Perhaps the prospect of a depiction of treatment of d'Amico by the Versaces is one reason the family put out those negative press releases before the series aired. Though I do not know if the narrative will get that far in the chonology of post-murder events when it wraps things up and returns to AC'S ultimate fate at the end of the series.

[JakeyJokes]

Florinaldo, we'll see more of that dismissive attitude with the Minnesota murders. No, this show won't hit the hot button topics as hard as S1, but I think this show will have a lot to say about how sometimes we view the '90s as halcyon days (post-AIDS crisis, gay nightlife thriving, gay culture becoming more mainstream), we still had a long way to go.

[AgentRXS]

I think this show will really highlight how far gay rights and gay acceptance has come in the past 20 years. I was a little surprised when people expressed incredulity over the Miami detective's attitude over gay men. In 1997, Ellen was just coming out publicly. Rosie O'Donnell was still trying to convince us all that she was straight and in love with Tom Cruise. Matthew Shepard was still a year away from being murdered himself. Freddie Mercury dying horribly from AIDs was only 6 years in the past. Pedro Zemora, one of the first openly gay men on TV, had also just died of AIDS .  Even in places like Miami, there will still plenty of folks  that carried the  "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" mantra in their personal lives. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by AgentRXS

[Florinaldo]

You are certainly correct JakeyJokes. The shot of all those undistributed posters in the FBI agent's trunk is certainly a big hint that they will pursue the point of investigators being dismissive towards "some gay murders", and RM has made no secret that it one of the issues he wanted to explore in this season. I was wondering mainly about what screen time will be devoted to the negative attitude of the Versaces towards d'Amico as the surviving partner of the designer and the legal maneuvers they used against him in the aftermath of the murder.

[Spartan Girl]

It's awful to think that if they had caught Cunanan sooner, Versace might still be alive.

[SarahPrtr]

They haven't mentioned just how intelligent AC was.  He had a genius-level intellect and was very handsome.  From a young age, he was told how special he was and had a massive sense of entitlement.  He never wanted to work for anything and expected to be given things just because he was told that he was wonderful.  He was given special privileges by his parents without any reason and experienced the finer things in life without actually learning how to achieve them.  His childhood and younger years were kind to him, until his father left the family suddenly. 

 

He tried to cover up his lower class background from people (hence, the name change to Da Silva, who was a prominent art collector).  He was exploring the San Diego gay scene and he was kind of a sugarbaby to older, rich men. 

 

That scene with his college boyfriend who was telling him that he may not be impressive, but is nice, kind and smart, is reflective of how his relationship with David Madson would play out.  David got tired of AC's constant lies and deceit and broke up with him.  When AC bought a ticket to Minneapolis, it was a one-way ticket because he was convinced that he could get David back.  When that didn't work out, in his jealous rage, he killed David.

[JakeyJokes]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

It's awful to think that if they had caught Cunanan sooner, Versace might still be alive.

It is absolutely MADDENING how close they were. The Miami PD had the wanted posters but didn't want to scare the gay community. The pawn shop owner who gave him cash for the old coin did everything right. Like the show said, she sent the PD the fax with Andrew Cunanan's name and address on July 7th. Versace was killed eight days later.

[starri]

On 1/20/2018 at 11:32 AM, Florinaldo said:

It was disconcerting at first to see Versace's boyfriend treated so dismissively by people including the sister.

It went beyond that.  Gianni's will left Antonio a monthly...well, it's referred to as a pension, but it's really more like an allowance of 50 million lira (hard to convert a currency that doesn't exist any more, but I think it's about $50K) for the rest of his life, and the right to live in any of Versace's homes.  Donatella fought with him for years over that, and he ended up getting just a small amount of the money and some limited rights to the living arrangements.

She maintained that she respected the relationship but didn't like Antonio personally, but frankly, not respecting her brother's wishes like that makes me realize that the first part of that statement isn't true.

[Florinaldo]

3 hours ago, starri said:

It went beyond that.  Gianni's will left Antonio a monthly...well, it's referred to as a pension, but it's really more like an allowance of 50 million lira (hard to convert a currency that doesn't exist any more, but I think it's about $50K) for the rest of his life, and the right to live in any of Versace's homes.  Donatella fought with him for years over that, and he ended up getting just a small amount of the money and some limited rights to the living arrangements.

Yes. As I wrote in my post, they argued that the homes in question were the property of the company so GV did not have the power to dispose of them as he wished. Plus, in those days same-sex spouses had very little standing in court, even less than straight spouses who filed "palimony" suits.

[Miles]

7 hours ago, starri said:

It went beyond that.  Gianni's will left Antonio a monthly...well, it's referred to as a pension, but it's really more like an allowance of 50 million lira (hard to convert a currency that doesn't exist any more, but I think it's about $50K) for the rest of his life, and the right to live in any of Versace's homes.  Donatella fought with him for years over that, and he ended up getting just a small amount of the money and some limited rights to the living arrangements.

That's worse than I thought. In the first episode I was still giving her the benefit of the doubt. Her brother had just died and maybe she was just angry and lashing out. But a prolonged legal battle, against the man who was your brothers boyfriend for 15 years, that takes some malice. Especially since what you describe was in the will seems more than reasonable for people this rich. It wouldn't have bankrupted anybody and he didn't get parts of the company or anything. Had they been able to marry back then, he would have gotten soooooooooo much more.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Miles

[JakeyJokes]

I wonder if Donatella never saw Antonio as an in-law and thought of him as a freeloader (he was a beautiful former model, right?) You are so correct that he would have had more rights if same-sex unions would have been recognized in ANY legal form back then. I believe half of Gianni's estate went to Donatella's daughter, Allegra (who, per the real Donatella's wishes, will not be represented on the show, according to an interview with Penelope Cruz last year).

I'm not defending Donatella on any of this. I like ACS because, save for the killers, they often present us with people in shades of grey (like Kardashian and Cochran in S1). I thought the writing -- and especially Cruz, speaking evenly with her eyes brimming with tears -- masterfully showed that while Donatella may have come across as callous/icy, keeping the Versace company successful was to be her final testament of love. They really were going to go public that year, and her taking the offer off the table, despite the likely SHORT-TERM financial windfall, was a gutsy move that paid off.

"Vulgar Favors", the source material, is written by a journalist and the language is very economic and to-the-point. One of its late chapters ends with "Donatella Versace has never returned to South Beach." Seeing that simple but powerful sentence combined with information of how much Gianni loved it there and made it his own, (South Beach finally embraced its decadence in the '90s, with Versace as its pulse), I found it profoundly sad.

Edited January 22, 2018 by JakeyJokes

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, JakeyJokes said:

I believe half of Gianni's estate went to Donatella's daughter, Allegra (who, per the real Donatella's wishes, will not be represented on the show, according to an interview with Penelope Cruz last year).

Rightly so, IMO, as Allegra was a minor when all of this happened and has suffered some emotional/health issues in the ensuing years. 

[vixenbynight]

16 hours ago, JakeyJokes said:

"Vulgar Favors", the source material, is written by a journalist and the language is very economic and to-the-point. One of its late chapters ends with "Donatella Versace has never returned to South Beach." Seeing that simple but powerful sentence combined with information of how much Gianni loved it there and made it his own, (South Beach finally embraced its decadence in the '90s, with Versace as its pulse), I found it profoundly sad.

It is sad, but understandable. Her brother truly thought that he found a home in South Beach and he was killed, due to a deranged man's obsession to be infamous. I would never go back to a place that has such horrible memories for me. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 1/21/2018 at 3:28 PM, starri said:

It went beyond that.  Gianni's will left Antonio a monthly...well, it's referred to as a pension, but it's really more like an allowance of 50 million lira (hard to convert a currency that doesn't exist any more, but I think it's about $50K) for the rest of his life, and the right to live in any of Versace's homes.  Donatella fought with him for years over that, and he ended up getting just a small amount of the money and some limited rights to the living arrangements.

She maintained that she respected the relationship but didn't like Antonio personally, but frankly, not respecting her brother's wishes like that makes me realize that the first part of that statement isn't true.

Was there any backlash when GV's fans/customers learned how Donatella treated Antonio? I would have stopped buying the label. She claims to love her brother but refused to honor GV's wishes. Terrible. 

[dubbel zout]

On 1/21/2018 at 3:28 PM, starri said:

She maintained that she respected the relationship but didn't like Antonio personally, but frankly, not respecting her brother's wishes like that makes me realize that the first part of that statement isn't true.

Yeah, it sounds like "respecting" the relationship meant she didn't trash Antonio to Gianni's face. That's...not how it works.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 1/21/2018 at 2:28 PM, starri said:

It went beyond that.  Gianni's will left Antonio a monthly...well, it's referred to as a pension, but it's really more like an allowance of 50 million lira (hard to convert a currency that doesn't exist any more, but I think it's about $50K) for the rest of his life, and the right to live in any of Versace's homes.  Donatella fought with him for years over that, and he ended up getting just a small amount of the money and some limited rights to the living arrangements.

She maintained that she respected the relationship but didn't like Antonio personally, but frankly, not respecting her brother's wishes like that makes me realize that the first part of that statement isn't true.

 

Yeah....knowing this definitely makes Donatella a less sympathetic character/person....

On 1/22/2018 at 1:12 AM, JakeyJokes said:

I wonder if Donatella never saw Antonio as an in-law and thought of him as a freeloader (he was a beautiful former model, right?) You are so correct that he would have had more rights if same-sex unions would have been recognized in ANY legal form back then. 

I think so, but this is what I don't get:

1) They'd been together around 15 years;

2) Antonio was a former model but he also worked for the Versace label in the design/business part for several years;

and

3) Donatella herself was married for many years to a former model (Paul Beck, her children's father/her ex-husband) who also went to work (and still works for) Versace as well.....SO....what's good for Donatella & her husband apparently wasn't good enough for her brother's (non-legal) husband because...????? I don't know why, but it makes me think a lot less of Donatella as a person.

This article has a lot of good info on the family tensions around the time of Gianni's death, including that:

Quote

Before Gianni's illness, Donatella handled fashion details, such as the models' look, the music, and the famous front row of celebrities for shows. But during Gianni's two years of treatments, Donatella oversaw the design team. When Gianni returned to work, Donatella balked; she loved the power she wielded in the studio and admitted "it was hard to give up." Their fights, in their local Calabrian dialect, were epic, according to witnesses. At one point, the pair didn't speak to each other for several months. In the spring of 1997, friends say Gianni exploded. "Enough!" he shouted at Donatella. "I have decided that we will do things differently. I don't want to do this anymore." In fact, what Gianni wanted to do was get Versace out of his family's hands and list it on the stock market.

http://www.newsweek.com/tragic-decline-house-versace-76845

I think Donatella's main focus was on doing what she thought was best for Donatella, not what Gianni would have wanted (or even what he had clearly stated in his will that he wanted, at least in regards to his partner). 

Edited January 23, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[MaggieG]

On 1/21/2018 at 10:34 AM, JakeyJokes said:

It is absolutely MADDENING how close they were. The Miami PD had the wanted posters but didn't want to scare the gay community. The pawn shop owner who gave him cash for the old coin did everything right. Like the show said, she sent the PD the fax with Andrew Cunanan's name and address on July 7th. Versace was killed eight days later.

Question: Why did the pawnshop wonder send his info to the police? Was the coin stolen?

[Florinaldo]

56 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Question: Why did the pawnshop wonder send his info to the police? Was the coin stolen?

In many (and perhaps all) states in the US, pawn shops are obligated to send reports to the police of which items were pawned in their shop, in case some of them, especially the hot-ticket ones like electronics or collectible coins, might have been reported stolen.

[vixenbynight]

On 1/20/2018 at 6:29 PM, SarahPrtr said:

They haven't mentioned just how intelligent AC was.  He had a genius-level intellect and was very handsome.  From a young age, he was told how special he was and had a massive sense of entitlement.  He never wanted to work for anything and expected to be given things just because he was told that he was wonderful.  He was given special privileges by his parents without any reason and experienced the finer things in life without actually learning how to achieve them.  His childhood and younger years were kind to him, until his father left the family suddenly. 

 

He tried to cover up his lower class background from people (hence, the name change to Da Silva, who was a prominent art collector).  He was exploring the San Diego gay scene and he was kind of a sugarbaby to older, rich men. 

 

That scene with his college boyfriend who was telling him that he may not be impressive, but is nice, kind and smart, is reflective of how his relationship with David Madson would play out.  David got tired of AC's constant lies and deceit and broke up with him.  When AC bought a ticket to Minneapolis, it was a one-way ticket because he was convinced that he could get David back.  When that didn't work out, in his jealous rage, he killed David.

Didn't Cununan murder his first victim and friend Trail inside Madson's home and then killed David after he took him hostage?

[Quiet1ne]

6 minutes ago, vixenbynight said:

Didn't Cununan murder his first victim and friend Trail inside Madson's home and then killed David after he took him hostage?

Yes.  Both were trying to cut him out of their life and he couldn't take the rejection.

[vixenbynight]

1 minute ago, Quiet1ne said:

Yes.  Both were trying to cut him out of their life and he couldn't take the rejection.

So, basically Andrew traveled to Minnesota in order to kill them both. There was never going to be any sort of reconciliation or reunion. Trail and Matson had moved on, to try and distance themselves from him and he just couldn't let them.

It is just so heartbreaking to know that the person that they cared for and loved, had no disregard and respect for their life, future and killed them.

[Emmeline]

On 1/20/2018 at 10:32 AM, Florinaldo said:

It was disconcerting at first to see Versace's boyfriend treated so dismissively by people including the sister. It reminds us that gay couples had little status in those days: legal marriage was a long way off and even unconceivable. On top of that, I seem to remember that he got screwed by the family because the property left to him in GV's will actually belonged to the company, so he got only a fraction what had been provided for him. No legal standing meant no valid claim. Perhaps the prospect of a depiction of treatment of d'Amico by the Versaces is one reason the family put out those negative press releases before the series aired. Though I do not know if the narrative will get that far in the chonology of post-murder events when it wraps things up and returns to AC'S ultimate fate at the end of the series.

Hey Florinaldo:  I read about the problem with the inherited property as well.  The thing that bothers me about this is why the lawyer drawing up the WILL didn’t inform GV about his desire to will a property to his boyfriend that actually belonged to the company.  Certainly with all his money he would have had the best and should have given him better advice.  

[Emmeline]

2 hours ago, Emmeline said:

Hey Florinaldo:  I read about the problem with the inherited property as well.  The thing that bothers me about this is why the lawyer drawing up the WILL didn’t inform GV about his desire to will a property to his boyfriend that actually belonged to the company.  Certainly with all his money he would have had the best and should have given him better advice.  

Actually, after reading more info, I’m not sure he was leaving him the property of his choice.  Only allowing him to live in his property of choice, which is also weird.  Perhaps this is why there have been articles about “the family” having issue with the series.  Donatella is not coming off very well.  She should be thrilled that she is being portrayed by a beautiful actress.  With all that money couldn’t they have provided more for Antonio D’Amico.  Donatella’s daughter is worth billions and billions of dollars.  Where would any of them be without GV.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Emmeline

[JakeyJokes]

12 hours ago, vixenbynight said:

Didn't Cununan murder his first victim and friend Trail inside Madson's home and then killed David after he took him hostage?

This is also why initially police thought Trail was a suspect and Madson the first victim.

[Florinaldo]

On 23/01/2018 at 0:03 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Was there any backlash when GV's fans/customers learned how Donatella treated Antonio? I would have stopped buying the label. She claims to love her brother but refused to honor GV's wishes. Terrible. 

I am not sure that back in the days, an injustice done to a same-sex live in lover would have resulted in any great mobilisation towards a boycott or any other form of backlash; it might have registered only in the gossip pages. Social sensibilities and opinions have evolved greatly over the past 3 decades.

[starri]

I think there was a little discussion in the episode thread about if the Miglins knew Cunanan prior to Lee's murder.

Orth recounts that a Miglin family friend remembered having run into Lee and Marilyn in a First Class lounge in LAX when the latter were on their way to Hawaii.  Since this was pre-9/11, Duke was able to drop in and see them before their flight, and had brought a friend with him.  The family friend, Jack Schaffer, couldn't remember Duke's friend's name, but recognized him as Cunanan when he saw a photo after Lee's murder.

[anyanka323]

On 1/22/2018 at 1:12 AM, JakeyJokes said:

I believe half of Gianni's estate went to Donatella's daughter, Allegra (who, per the real Donatella's wishes, will not be represented on the show, according to an interview with Penelope Cruz last year).

According to another writer, Deborah Ball, Gianni revised his will end of 1995 to give his share of the company to Allegra rather than splitting it between Santo and Donatella as it was before.  They were unaware of his change and rather shocked to say the least.  Gianni clearly thought the world of Allegra, whom his called his principessa, and likely thought that he'd have time to mentor her to take over.  The change to the will also had the effect of the IPO not going forward, because of the complications and uncertainty of having a minor in charge of a multinational company. 

[CofCinci]

I wonder what Allegra’s relationship with her siblings was like after she inherited far much more than they received.  Personally, I think that is very shitty to do to a sibling group, especially since Versace seemed to cherish his relationship with his sister/muse.  They were very young and the imbalance was most likely confusing to the children.

[Rubyslippahz]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

I wonder what Allegra’s relationship with her siblings was like after she inherited far much more than they received.  Personally, I think that is very shitty to do to a sibling group, especially since Versace seemed to cherish his relationship with his sister/muse.  They were very young and the imbalance was most likely confusing to the children.

I think Allegra just has one sib--Daniel.   

Honestly Allegra's life seems very troubled regardless of wealth.  She is 31 now and it doesn't sound like she is able to participate much on the Versace business due to her longstanding struggle with anorexia and mental illness https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/why-producers-scrubbed-versaces-niece-out-of-american-crime-story/

[SmithW6079]

I wanted to learn a little more about Lee Miglin and got caught up reading 20-year-old "Chicago Tribune" stories about the Cunanan case. It's interesting to read what was then current with the perspective of today.

[ktwo]

On 2/3/2018 at 11:50 PM, CofCinci said:

I wonder what Allegra’s relationship with her siblings was like after she inherited far much more than they received.  Personally, I think that is very shitty to do to a sibling group, especially since Versace seemed to cherish his relationship with his sister/muse.  They were very young and the imbalance was most likely confusing to the children.

Wow, weird parallel to Cunanan and his siblings.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

On 1/20/2018 at 2:04 PM, AgentRXS said:

I think this show will really highlight how far gay rights and gay acceptance has come in the past 20 years. I was a little surprised when people expressed incredulity over the Miami detective's attitude over gay men. In 1997, Ellen was just coming out publicly. Rosie O'Donnell was still trying to convince us all that she was straight and in love with Tom Cruise. Matthew Shepard was still a year away from being murdered himself. Freddie Mercury dying horribly from AIDs was only 6 years in the past. Pedro Zemora, one of the first openly gay men on TV, had also just died of AIDS .  Even in places like Miami, there will still plenty of folks  that carried the  "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" mantra in their personal lives. 

Yeah in the first episode when Donatella was upset that people were going to dig up dirt on Versace after he died my husband was like "Why? Did he do anything illegal?" I was like "No, she means like the open relationship and being gay and stuff." And he was like "Why would anyone care about that?" I was like "Back then they did. Now nobody would give a fuck."

On 1/20/2018 at 6:29 PM, SarahPrtr said:

They haven't mentioned just how intelligent AC was.  He had a genius-level intellect and was very handsome.  From a young age, he was told how special he was and had a massive sense of entitlement.  He never wanted to work for anything and expected to be given things just because he was told that he was wonderful.  He was given special privileges by his parents without any reason and experienced the finer things in life without actually learning how to achieve them.  His childhood and younger years were kind to him, until his father left the family suddenly. 

Interesting blog I found: https://andrew-phillip-cunanan.blogspot.com/

(Warning some NSFW/NSFL content) Has a lot of information on the case that I haven't seen anywhere else, including photos of Cunanan in his teens and 20s, photos of his victims, postmortem photos, and most interestingly, a bunch of postcards he sent to David Madsen while traveling in 1995/1996. You can really see how intelligent and knowledgeable he was from his writing. Makes it even sadder that he chose this path when he had a lot of talents.

TBH I think people underestimate how much his drug use most likely played into this. People who knew him said he was clearly unraveling and his drug use was spiraling out of control in the months leading up to it, and that he even exhibited psychotic symptoms at times as a result. He likely had psychopathic tendencies from birth (he never cried as a baby which could indicate a less reactive amygdala) and narcissistic/sociopathic tendencies instilled from upbringing, obviously. But I think the drug use is likely what pushed it over the edge from a guy who was pretty dysfunctional and involved in criminal activities, but was not really a menace to society, to a deranged spree killer.

On 1/21/2018 at 10:34 AM, JakeyJokes said:

It is absolutely MADDENING how close they were. The Miami PD had the wanted posters but didn't want to scare the gay community. The pawn shop owner who gave him cash for the old coin did everything right. Like the show said, she sent the PD the fax with Andrew Cunanan's name and address on July 7th. Versace was killed eight days later.

Didn't want to scare the gay community?? You know what's scary, when the police don't try to catch a murderer on the loose! What a dumb reason. I was really mad when I saw the scene where he pawns the coin and she looks over to the bulletin board and the Wanted flyer is not there...how hard is it to make some mfing copies?!

On 1/23/2018 at 1:24 PM, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

This article has a lot of good info on the family tensions around the time of Gianni's death, including that:

http://www.newsweek.com/tragic-decline-house-versace-76845

I think Donatella's main focus was on doing what she thought was best for Donatella, not what Gianni would have wanted (or even what he had clearly stated in his will that he wanted, at least in regards to his partner). 

Wow, I had no idea their relationship was so strained in real life.

On 2/2/2018 at 9:45 PM, starri said:

I think there was a little discussion in the episode thread about if the Miglins knew Cunanan prior to Lee's murder.

Orth recounts that a Miglin family friend remembered having run into Lee and Marilyn in a First Class lounge in LAX when the latter were on their way to Hawaii.  Since this was pre-9/11, Duke was able to drop in and see them before their flight, and had brought a friend with him.  The family friend, Jack Schaffer, couldn't remember Duke's friend's name, but recognized him as Cunanan when he saw a photo after Lee's murder.

I'm not sure I believe that. Maybe the guy thinks it was Cunanan but how many years prior was this? How would he really remember the face of someone he met briefly once? A lot of people look like each other.

On 2/3/2018 at 11:50 PM, CofCinci said:

I wonder what Allegra’s relationship with her siblings was like after she inherited far much more than they received.  Personally, I think that is very shitty to do to a sibling group, especially since Versace seemed to cherish his relationship with his sister/muse.  They were very young and the imbalance was most likely confusing to the children.

 

On 3/22/2018 at 2:28 PM, ktwo said:

Wow, weird parallel to Cunanan and his siblings.

Was about to say the same thing about the uncanny parallels between the situations.