S04.E03: And the Christmas Thief / S04.E04: And the Silver Screen

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

When Santa takes Flynn, Baird and Jenkins on his first vacation in centuries, he leaves his beloved sleigh in the care of the Librarians. But when Ezekiel's career criminal mother steals the magic door, they must use the sleigh to save her, as well as Christmas itself, from Santa's Grinch of a brother, the Patron Saint of Thieves.

and

When Flynn and Baird are sucked into Baird’s favorite classic Film Noir movie, the Librarians are drawn into the world of movie magic – literally – where they’ll need to perfect their lassoing skills, sharpshooting, and snappy dialogue if they’re going to make it out alive.

[johntfs]

Patron Saint of Thieves?  Now I kind of want a Preacher/Librarians crossover featuring the Saint of Killers.  Except now that I think about it, that would be a really short episode.  BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!....BLAM!  And no more Librarians.

[Loandbehold]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

Patron Saint of Thieves?  Now I kind of want a Preacher/Librarians crossover featuring the Saint of Killers.  Except now that I think about it, that would be a really short episode.  BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!BLAM!....BLAM!  And no more Librarians.

And here I was thinking it could be a battle b/w Santa and Autolycus (the King of Thieves) w/ both being played by Bruce Campbell.

Edited to get the correct title for Autoluycus.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Loandbehold

[AnimeMania]

There will be 2 episodes that day, so make sure you see both. "And the Christmas Thief" followed by "And the Silver Screen".

[johntfs]

Good lord, if they're still only doing 10 episodes in a season, that's going to burn through this season fast.  I was kind of counting on it to get me over the hump until LoT and my other shows came back.

Yes, according to the TV-guide online listings, they're showing "And the Bleeding Crown" and "And the Grave of Time" back to back on Dec. 27.

Edited December 17, 2017 by johntfs

[Machiabelly]

Who is playing Ezekiel mom

[Chaos Theory]

I didn’t really care for the first episode with Ezekiel and his mom.  The second episode was hilarious.  Of course Jake likes cowboys movies and any time Christian Kane gets a chance to sing is tops by me.  Is anyone surprised that Cassandra likes old science fiction movies?  Only thing missing was a genre Ezekiel likes.

Plus watching Flynn and Eve in one of those old timy gumshoe movies was entertaining  in a way i can’t really explain.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Chaos Theory
Typing on my phone is no good

[Mojeaux]

2 hours ago, Machiabelly said:

Who is playing Ezekiel mom

Gia Carides. She played Liz Holt in Strictly Ballroom. I KNEW I knew her from somewhere!

Edited December 21, 2017 by Mojeaux
Fact-checker went on strike.

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

40 minutes ago, Mojeaux said:

Gia Carides. She played Liz Holt in Strictly Ballroom. I KNEW I knew her from somewhere!

I would never have recognized her but I love knowing it’s her!!!! Thoroughly enjoyed both episodes.  But I think I’ll pace myself and not watch both, next week. Save some for later!

[Maelstrom]

Yay, we finally get some backstory on Ezekiel! I thought they did a wonderful job fleshing out his character, and JHK was excellent, especially in his scenes with his mother in the bank. I’m glad they touched on why the Library chose him - sometimes IMO they can go overboard in ragging on him for being selfish and egotistical, so I’m always happy when they delve a little deeper to the real Ezekiel beneath the bravado. The video game ep from season two remains one of my top faves for that very reason.

Gia Carides was a lot of fun as his mother (I knew I’d seen her in a ton of things but couldn’t remember what, so I had to look her up too!)

I see Noah Wyle directed this one. I thought for the most part he did a better job than his last foray into directing (last season’s troll reunion ep) though I wish Steven Webber had been encouraged to tone down the OTT hamminess instead of amping it up, but whatever. Also, it looks like Santa souped up his sleigh from season one, the fancy dashboard lights are new.

As for the second episode, it was a mixed bag for me. I loved the adventures of the three “kids” (I’m torn between whether Cassandra’s magic shotgun or Jake’s magically appearing guitar were my favorite parts of the ep - though kudos to Jonathan Frakes for fitting in a Wilhelm scream) and had to chuckle at Jenkins’ irritation when he looked up from his big tracking contraption to find them long gone. And I got a kick out of the three of them still being in color when they showed up in the noir. As for Flynn and Eve’s story, well, I continue to wish NW and Flynn had stayed far away from the show and gone back to movies instead. I just can’t with him, and unfortunately it brings down Eve and RR too.

[AnimeMania]

S04.E04: AND THE SILVER SCREEN

Spoiler

The girl's father died in 1979, why did she wait 40 years later to reveal that she was her mother?

 

It was funny when Ezekiel stuck the bandana in his ears during the singing.

[johntfs]

5 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

As for Flynn and Eve’s story, well, I continue to wish NW and Flynn had stayed far away from the show and gone back to movies instead. I just can’t with him, and unfortunately it brings down Eve and RR too.

It's a bit hard for me to buy Colonel Eve Baird tolerating Flynn, much less dating him.  I don't mind Flynn too much in small doses, it's when he's the focus (as in the season premiere) that I wish we were shut of him.  There's an old episode movie that has Batman dealing with a mystery with the Scooby-Doo gang.  It was cute for that episode, but this show takes the idea and makes it into a series.  Like every episode would be "I noticed the smell of phosphorescent paint on the "swamp monster."  After that I simply sidekicked his knee and delivered a focused strike just below his T-8 vertebrae.  Old Man Jenkins'  fraud of using a monster costume to scare people into the selling their mineral rights regarding the gold mine will land him in prison for perhaps five years, but he'll be in that wheelchair for the rest of his life.  Justice is served.  I am the night."

[ChelseaNH]

First ep:  The voice over was a bridge too far for me.  I'm not a big fan of "the true meaning of Christmas" messages, and vastly prefer a lighter touch.

Second ep:  The yodeling -- I died. 

[libgirl2]

On 12/17/2017 at 1:45 PM, johntfs said:

Good lord, if they're still only doing 10 episodes in a season, that's going to burn through this season fast.  I was kind of counting on it to get me over the hump until LoT and my other shows came back.

Yes, according to the TV-guide online listings, they're showing "And the Bleeding Crown" and "And the Grave of Time" back to back on Dec. 27.

I agree. At this rate there is going to be a "desert" after the holidays. Glad I have 3 seasons of DVDs to get me through the time. 

[Mojeaux]

8 hours ago, johntfs said:

It's a bit hard for me to buy Colonel Eve Baird tolerating Flynn, much less dating him. 

Completely agree.

[rove4]

13 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

As for Flynn and Eve’s story, well, I continue to wish NW and Flynn had stayed far away from the show and gone back to movies instead. I just can’t with him, and unfortunately it brings down Eve and RR too.

That's funny because I only tune into this show when Flynn is in the episode.  I like Eve, Jenkins, and Stone but I find both Cassandra and Ezekiel unbearably annoying.  Plus I don't think either actor is very good. 

[tennisgurl]

I think the first one was probably my favorite, mainly because it was mostly about "the kids" and their wacky shenanigans, and we got some decent backstory for Ezekiel. I liked his mom (I knew that I recognized her from somewhere!) and learning more about him and his family. The three of them are always a lot of fun together. Plus, I thought how they solved the problem with the Saint of Thieves was pretty clever and well set up. Plus, I cracked up over how happy the three of them were when Jenkins showed up. "Jenkins is here!!!!" 

The second one had a lot of really good stuff in it, but was filled with a little bit too much Flynn for my taste. I like Flynn just fine as a reoccurring character, and I appreciate that he has been toned down a bit from previous seasons, but I still prefer the shows characters and when the focus is on them. And, why did the woman wait so long to reveal himself to her daughter, exactly? Her dad had been dead for years, why not show up earlier? Why come back now? But, we got Christian Kane singing and dressing like a cowboy, and that music being played turning the B movie sci fy movie was hilariously accurate to the genre, so who am I to complain? 

I did enjoy that Eve got to be the knowledge and passion for some niche thing, instead of one of the Librarians. Speaking of, so your the only Librarian, Flynn? What are the rest of the gang, your unpaid interns? And why are they showing two episodes at once? This show has to last me until the winter TV break is over!

[Maelstrom]

54 minutes ago, rove4 said:

That's funny because I only tune into this show when Flynn is in the episode.  I like Eve, Jenkins, and Stone but I find both Cassandra and Ezekiel unbearably annoying.  Plus I don't think either actor is very good. 

Another reason I feel Flynn would work better back in his own movies, with only a very occasional crossover with the show - Flynn fans such as yourself get cheated out of your favorite character, and viewers such as myself who prefer the other characters feel shorted too. Seems like this way doesn't quite satisfy anyone.

It is odd they're burning off the season at two eps a week. What gives, TNT?

[AnimeMania]

I don't understand why the sleigh wasn't charging faster, Christmas hype is starting earlier and earlier each year. Right now it the hype seems to starts a little before Halloween, you have Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Green Monday, etc., yet the sleigh is still almost empty of Christmas Cheer. When exactly is ThanksTaking Day, as soon as the thieves returned the Christmas presents, you saw people opening them like it was Christmas Day. So do you think the rest of the Jones family stopped being thieves or are they still thieves, but no longer "petty" thieves.

[Chaos Theory]

10 hours ago, johntfs said:

It's a bit hard for me to buy Colonel Eve Baird tolerating Flynn, much less dating him.  

It’s funny but Flynn and Eve are probably one of the few pairings I do enjoy.  I like the opposites attract and yet they respect what the other brings to the table nature of the relationship.  

That being said I do prefer episides  focus on the kids as a group or Eve or Cassandra.  Eve and Cassandra are my favorites.  

Well Jenkins is my favorite but they are two and three.

[jbrecken]

Would have been nice if someone had mentioned Eve's birthday.

[ganesh]

Overall the first episode was too wacky for me. Too many contrivances. 

I can get behind an Ezekiel shows his mother who he really is plot, but I can't buy he'd drag her to the library and take his eyes off her to let her steal the globe. Then they brought her to the bank? I can also buy that the globe breaks and they have to use the sleigh. Through it all together and it just didn't work.

The mother grated and seemed abusive, condescending, and selfish. How good of a thief are you if you don't know what a faberge egg is anyway?  

The whole mirror gag killed though, and the end was clever.

Definitely blew it by not casting Bruce Campbell though. 

Eve is my favorite, so a whole episode without bothered me.

10 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Another reason I feel Flynn would work better back in his own movies, with only a very occasional crossover with the show - Flynn fans such as yourself get cheated out of your favorite character, and viewers such as myself who prefer the other characters feel shorted too. Seems like this way doesn't quite satisfy anyone.

I feel like when Flynn is a 'regular' they don't know what to do with the cast as a whole. The strength of Leverage and one of the reasons I was excited that TPTBs were producing Librarians was the teamwork aspect. And they've done a great job with it when it's Eve et al. The show knows its characters: Flynn calling himself *the* Librarian; he's not going to be a team player and take orders from Eve. It's almost like Flynn doesn't know what to do. And I do like the character; the movies were great. 

RR looked great in the noir movie, and Flynn was really funny. Kitty is the perfect name. "Doctor J and Lady Gaga will be at the bar." 

Every time Eve said "Trapeeeze Anyone?" she did a wave with her hand and said it in a weird way.

I liked how in the bowboy movie all the bad guys missed but Stone and Cassie hit them all in the hand and never ran out of bullets.

9 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So do you think the rest of the Jones family stopped being thieves or are they still thieves, but no longer "petty" thieves.

Having the mother do a huge turnaround bothered me. I don't really care for xmas schmaltz. I would have preferred if they just had a better respect for Jones' skills and maybe still are thieves, but secretly donate some of their gains. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by ganesh

[thuganomics85]

As soon as I saw Steven Weber with that hilarious goatee and over-the-top British accent, I was already cackling.  I love him in almost everything, but there is something about him going full-blown hammy evil (Helix, iZombie), that really delights me.  

I enjoyed the first episode due to the Librarians taking front and center, while Bard, Flynn, and Jenkins were on "vacation", and I enjoyed seeing Ezekiel's backstory, even if his mother was pretty grating.  I was also bummed that they couldn't (or didn't want to) bring Bruce Campbell back as Santa again.

The second episode was pretty fun too, but it did go back into the "too much Flynn" territory.  In past seasons, he was usually off the screen at this point, so I'm kind of surprising he's been around a lot more here.  Still, I loved all the old film stuff and everyone have to react certain scenes (and Ezekiel/Jake/Cassandra even going between films.)  And Rebecca Romjin was looking extra gorgeous in that 1940s attire.

I noticed Noah Wyle directed the first episode and wrote the second one.  Must be fun for him to get to work behind the scenes like this.  And good old Jonathan Frakes directed the second episode!

Looks like TNT is just going to keep airing episodes back to back?  They're really going to blow through this season quickly.  Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad one. 

[GaT]

I haven't watched the 2nd episode yet, but the first one had to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen.

[Clanstarling]

18 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I don't understand why the sleigh wasn't charging faster, Christmas hype is starting earlier and earlier each year. Right now it the hype seems to starts a little before Halloween, you have Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Green Monday, etc., yet the sleigh is still almost empty of Christmas Cheer. When exactly is ThanksTaking Day, as soon as the thieves returned the Christmas presents, you saw people opening them like it was Christmas Day. So do you think the rest of the Jones family stopped being thieves or are they still thieves, but no longer "petty" thieves.

I was a little confused about the timing, but my take on it was that it was the day AFTER Christmas, since Santa was going on vacation. But the bit with the presents didn't quite line up with that, I agree, since the presents would already have been opened...unless Christmas and Takesgiving are the same day, and she stole the presents before they were opened, but after Santa had finished delivery? (different time zones and all) So they were able to return them in time? Well....blah blah blah magic cakes, I guess.

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

The mother grated and seemed abusive, condescending, and selfish. How good of a thief are you if you don't know what a faberge egg is anyway?  

Every time Eve said "Trapeeeze Anyone?" she did a wave with her hand and said it in a weird way.

Well, she was a pretty low end thief, after all. As was Fagin (who it seems she's modeled after).

Eve was mimicing the stance of trapeze artists (before or after a stunt, I don't recall anymore, it's been awhile). I assumed the way she said it had to do with how it was said in the movie. I certainly say catch phrases from movies the way they're said (and when it's from the Pink Panther movies - they end up sounding very weird).

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

As soon as I saw Steven Weber with that hilarious goatee and over-the-top British accent, I was already cackling.  I love him in almost everything, but there is something about him going full-blown hammy evil (Helix, iZombie), that really delights me.  

I loved him too. He seemed to be having fun in this one - in a different way than in iZombie. But I love him in pretty much everything, like you.

I liked the first episode the best because I loved the Ezekial backstory (I've always liked him), even if it was a bit much. The idea of him being the world's best thief and his mother not having a clue and thinking he was a terrible thief was pretty funny - and actually not unlikely in many family dynamics.

Also, it had just the right enough amount of Flynn. I never saw the movies, so I never developed an affection for the character.  I don't dislike Noah Wyle, just the character.

I liked the second movie, though at first I thought "I've seen this plot before" (without remembering where - Warehouse 13? Haven?) but they put in some nice touches, and I did enjoy the singing cowboy and old time sci fi elements.  But too much Flynn for my tastes.

[Loandbehold]

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Looks like TNT is just going to keep airing episodes back to back?  They're really going to blow through this season quickly.  Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad one. 

I don't recall where, but I believe I read that the first 3 weeks would be two episodes a week and thereafter it's one a week.

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I liked the first episode the best because I loved the Ezekial backstory (I've always liked him), even if it was a bit much. The idea of him being the world's best thief and his mother not having a clue and thinking he was a terrible thief was pretty funny - and actually not unlikely in many family dynamics.

I liked this, but I thought Ezekiel giving away what he stole didn't fit the character we were introduced to. I liked that we've seen him develop and grow as a person. Now, it turns out that he was pulling the wool over everyone's eyes and for what reason? In the first Santa episode, Ezekiel is upset about being nice and giving away money after he puts on Santa's hat. Why, if he's really a good guy who just does Robin Hood thievery? And, by the way, even if he did give away all the stolen items to help the less fortunate, how many people lost their jobs b/c they weren't able to prevent the thefts? Should we ignore that (and, yes, I know light TV, etc., etc.)? And, did he give the stolen items to the charities or did he fence the items so he could give them cash? Or, did he return the items for the reward money? See, w/ Parker on Leverage, I could accept that she just kept the items that she stole. It wasn't the money, but the rush that was important to her. That was made clear in the story and wasn't retconned. If they wanted Ezekiel to be like that, then fine. I also liked the video game loop episode, and, even there, at the end, he (now supposedly) didn't remember what happened. If they wanted this to be his backstory, then they needed to introduce something earlier. It could have been Jenkins who discovered this and let Ezekiel know that he would keep his secret, but that Ezekiel should learn to trust the others and tell them.

I liked the second episode better. Even though Flynn goes over-the-top, I enjoyed when he was more in the noir character. Plus, him getting upset over people not taking it too seriously when he's been shot and beaten up was fun. Eve's love of noir was a good touch and the others dropping into other movie genres was a good time.

[johntfs]

14 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

In the first Santa episode, Ezekiel is upset about being nice and giving away money after he puts on Santa's hat. Why, if he's really a good guy who just does Robin Hood thievery?

Maybe because he was being forced to do it by a magic artifact instead of being able to make that choice himself.

[Machiabelly]

Cassandra looked like someone from Westworld when she was firing that gun.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Machiabelly
Spelling

[andromeda331]

I liked the second episode then the first. The first it didn't feel real when Ezekiel said he stole and gave all the money away. Send people to school and built hospitals. It doesn't make sense with the character they introduce and all the jokes of him already being the worse version of himself. I also hated his mother. It wasn't funny the way she kept selling Ezekiel out and treated him like crap.          

I loved the second episode. It was so much fun. I liked Flynn and Eve in the silver screen. How excited Eve was to see the movie and be in the movie. She looked like she was having the time of her life. I loved the Lady Gaga comment, and Flynn remarking that he'd been beaten up and now was going to be tossed overboard.  I loved seeing the other three in the Western. The guitar just appearing in Stone's hands and he started singing. I loved how Stone knew it was coming too. They all looked like they were having fun.       

[Chaos Theory]

The first episode characterization of Ezekiel seemed kinda weird to me.   I did like the early stuff though of his family being petty thieves and them thinking that he was a bad thief because he stole things that didn't have a price tag attached to it.  The concept of "priceless" was lost on them.   And I kinda did think that the last moments of bonding between Ezekiel and his mom was sweet but the middle part just didn't work.   There was nothing in any of the episodes that showed him being anything other then Ezekiel best thief in the world.  If they want to go with Ezekiel Robin Hood then they need to give me more.   It was the wrong amount of what the show does right.  

While the second episode was fun on every level.  I like the pairing of Flynn and Eve.  When it is done right it truly shines and this episode it was done really really right.   Plus watching the three kids movie hop was hilarious.  There was a lot of zany fun and with the right amount of all the actors strengths.  And everyone got a moment to shine.   It was the right amount of what the show does right.  

Edited December 23, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[netlyon2]

On 12/22/2017 at 11:56 AM, Loandbehold said:

I don't recall where, but I believe I read that the first 3 weeks would be two episodes a week and thereafter it's one a week.

Confirmed:

[Skyfall]

Is there no overall big bad this season?

[johntfs]

5 minutes ago, Skyfall said:

Is there no overall big bad this season?

Maybe Nicole, which would suck, but as far as I can tell, no.  The closest to that is the Order of Shadows from the first episode, but their leader's in another dimension and they otherwise lost pretty badly.

[ganesh]

No, I don't think there's a big bad, but they've continually mentioned the tethering ceremony so that might be the season theme. 

[Skyfall]

10 hours ago, johntfs said:

Maybe Nicole, which would suck, but as far as I can tell, no.  The closest to that is the Order of Shadows from the first episode, but their leader's in another dimension and they otherwise lost pretty badly.

At first I thought the Order and the blocks was going to be the season long arc but they crammed that into one episode. Would’ve loved to see that cat and mouse. I wonder if TNT told them to go more “case of the week.”

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

No, I don't think there's a big bad, but they've continually mentioned the tethering ceremony so that might be the season theme. 

Makes you wonder if they are banking on this being the final season.

[ChelseaNH]

On 12/21/2017 at 2:57 PM, AnimeMania said:

I don't understand why the sleigh wasn't charging faster, Christmas hype is starting earlier and earlier each year.

Christmas hype is kind of the opposite of Christmas cheer.  The sleigh runs on genuine good feelings, not commercialization and pressure to measure up.

[Hanahope]

I liked getting more back story on Ezekiel, since he was a thief, there had to be more that made him Librarian material.  And I lol'd at the "behind every asshole of a man is a petulent little boy" or words to that effect.  Ah, so true, so true, in so many cases.  I wish we could have seen Santa again.

And Silver Screen episode was fun in execution, though the back story was weak, and obvious.  Still, loved the way they got Christian Kane's singing into the show.  Yay!

[LisaM]

I liked the Christmas episode even though I think that the actor playing Ezekiel overacts and hams it up too much. I love Steven Weber and he was quite good. Eve is my favorite character so I was not pleased that she was absent for most of the episode.

I just could not get into the second episode and turned it off after 15 minutes. Can't stand Flynn.

[lizzyp]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:56 AM, Loandbehold said:

I don't recall where, but I believe I read that the first 3 weeks would be two episodes a week and thereafter it's one a week.

I liked this, but I thought Ezekiel giving away what he stole didn't fit the character we were introduced to. I liked that we've seen him develop and grow as a person. Now, it turns out that he was pulling the wool over everyone's eyes and for what reason? In the first Santa episode, Ezekiel is upset about being nice and giving away money after he puts on Santa's hat. Why, if he's really a good guy who just does Robin Hood thievery? And, by the way, even if he did give away all the stolen items to help the less fortunate, how many people lost their jobs b/c they weren't able to prevent the thefts? Should we ignore that (and, yes, I know light TV, etc., etc.)? And, did he give the stolen items to the charities or did he fence the items so he could give them cash? Or, did he return the items for the reward money? See, w/ Parker on Leverage, I could accept that she just kept the items that she stole. It wasn't the money, but the rush that was important to her. That was made clear in the story and wasn't retconned. If they wanted Ezekiel to be like that, then fine. I also liked the video game loop episode, and, even there, at the end, he (now supposedly) didn't remember what happened. If they wanted this to be his backstory, then they needed to introduce something earlier. It could have been Jenkins who discovered this and let Ezekiel know that he would keep his secret, but that Ezekiel should learn to trust the others and tell them.

I liked the second episode better. Even though Flynn goes over-the-top, I enjoyed when he was more in the noir character. Plus, him getting upset over people not taking it too seriously when he's been shot and beaten up was fun. Eve's love of noir was a good touch and the others dropping into other movie genres was a good time.

That bothered me a lot.  The whole first season set him up as a happy go lucky, no-conscience thief.  He was immune to the Apple of Discord because he was already the worst version of himself.  Had they chosen to have him develop into a caring, generous soul over the course of the show that would be one thing, but don't tell me in season 4 that what you told me in season 1 was wrong or that it didn't happen.  That's an insult to long time watchers.