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S01.E01: The Crossing

BetterButter

By BetterButter
in Counterpart [V]

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ApathyMonger

ApathyMonger

I'm on board. Great performances by Simmons, and a decent setup.

Nice to see a pilot that actually gets moving quickly, rather than stretching things out for half a season.

I feel if this were a Netflix show, Howard-2 wouldn't show up until the end of the first episode (if then).

The diverging point thing, where the characters had the same lives until ~30 years ago, reminds me of the movie Another Earth.

  • Love 2
Eriu

Eriu

I genuinely thought Badass Howard was gonna get killed because of the flower screwup and Basic Howard was going to have to pretend to be Badass for the rest of the season. I was pleasantly surprised when that didn’t happen, though judging from the previews it looks like we might still get some of that.

Interesting that Badass Howard lied to Basic Howard about his Emily being dead, though they are rather obviously not together. I’ll be interested to see where that goes.

  • Love 4
Real4real

Real4real

(edited)

While I did enjoy this show and plan to watch it, I have one small nitpick--why would the nurse leave the empty vase on the counter?  That just seemed weird to me.  I would have put the old flowers back in the vase--they certainly weren't dead looking after just one day and it would have looked better than just an empty vase sitting there--or moved the empty vase off the counter.  I know that it was critical to the story, but it just bugged me!  Howard throwing out the flowers every day bugged me too come to think of it!  I guess I don't have fresh flowers very often, so I keep them until they are seriously DEAD!

Really great start though!

Edited by Real4real
  • Love 9
shapeshifter

shapeshifter

At last a pilot for which I don't feel I have to make excuses of it being a pilot! 

J.K. Simmons, so, why not? And JKS playing two distinct roles = totally worth watching. 

Reminiscent of Fringe, yes, but also the cancelled-too-soon Rubicon, and the opening credit video art reminded me of that of the excellently done but also cancelled-too-soon Manhattan, and then who should pop up in recognizable form in the last scene but Olivia Williams as Emily, who had a similar role in Manhattan. And then Richard Schiff, whose character in Manhattan was aptly and intriguingly named Occam, and who makes everything better, appears in the previews for later episodes.

I hope they continue to develop the thoughtful, thought provoking, what-is-the-meaning-of-life writing and not spend too much time on the action sequences. 

I'm a time of life and have lived experiences that make this all relevant to me, but I am also not a popular target demographic.  But that's okay. Just give me one good season. 

  • Love 6
CooperTV

CooperTV

This is like every gritty Cold War spy show ever but somehow there are also parallel universes... for some reason Also, of course it's a randomly a power fantasy where boring old dude with boring job could be a badass spy from another dimension.

*sigh*

The harried boss (the creepy boy from Doctor Who's Family of Blood) is currently my favorite. I don't even know why.

marinw

marinw

I love a good parallel universe. I appreciate that the two worlds diverged thirty years ago, which explains why most people have doubles. Reminiscent of Fringe and Another Earth, as the other posters have pointed out.

So which side takes place in “Our” world? The Side that this most of episode takes place has clunky late 90’s or early 00’s computers, where the world in the opening scene  have partially transparent phones. So there’s a technology gap.

  • Love 3
wilnil

wilnil

(edited)
4 hours ago, marinw said:

I love a good parallel universe. I appreciate that the two worlds diverged thirty years ago, which explains why most people have doubles. Reminiscent of Fringe and Another Earth, as the other posters have pointed out.

So which side takes place in “Our” world? The Side that this most of episode takes place has clunky late 90’s or early 00’s computers, where the world in the opening scene  have partially transparent phones. So there’s a technology gap.

Yeah, as the episode went on, I became more and more convinced that Meek Howard's world isn't ours -- either that or his agency got all of its tech budget at its founding and is still running on that original equipment, including honest-to-god reel-to-reel tape recorders.

But it's occurred to me that there's nothing to guarantee that either world is "ours." Howard "Prime's" world sounds like it's more politically & internationally unstable than ours. (The closed captions labeled Badass Howard as "Prime," and so does the show's website; I don't know if that might be a clue that his world is supposed to be the "real" one from our perspective.)

Edited by wilnil
  • Love 5
shapeshifter

shapeshifter

1 hour ago, marinw said:

You’re probably right. Also, what city does Meek Howard live in? There may be some subtle differences to the skyline a resident of that city would notice.

Fringe was very pointed about the differences—both in signaling the viewer with the location word of either "Manhatan" or "Manhattan," and displaying a familiar landscape vs. an apocalyptic one. So far it looks like the differences between the Counterpart verses will be more subtle, and perhaps keep the viewer guessing. Or not. Hopefully they will adjust accordingly to keep the attracted audience engaged without sacrificing intended vision to the point of having discouraged storytellers—which can't end well.

  • Love 4
wilnil

wilnil

4 hours ago, marinw said:

You’re probably right. Also, what city does Meek Howard live in? There may be some subtle differences to the skyline a resident of that city would notice.

I believe it's Berlin for both Howards, though I don't think we've heard yet whether either world still has an East/West split there -- that is, if German reunification never happened there (it happened less than 30 years ago, so that could be one of the differences between worlds).

  • Love 2
wilnil

wilnil

Whoops. Just rewatched, and the low-tech in Meek Howard's world is only in the secure parts of the building where he works. His colleagues are leaving smartphones in their lockers before being signed in; the hospital room where Howard's wife is comatose has modern monitors; etc.

My guess now is that since one of the purposes of this agency is to "trade information" with the Other Side, none of the secure areas can contain devices invented since the worlds diverged, to ensure no one from the Other Side has a chance to steal tech they might not have, rather than trading for it. Likewise with Howard's job -- "communicating" only via prearranged code phrases to ensure no one says anything unauthorized and revealing.

  • Love 9
meira.hand

meira.hand

On first viewing I assumed we only first saw Prime Howard's world at the end (with the Moskva cafe) but on re-watching the episode I realized the first scene is actually also in Prime Howard's world. I like how they let us slowly figure this out without any overt titles or signs or expositions, apart from the bare basics. Like not having the two Howards have any distinguishing physical differences (like hair, glasses etc.) apart from the slight stubble of the Prime one on the first meet. Or the technology difference that Wilnil so observantly explained. I keep discovering nice subtle gems that I missed, like at the closing scene when Meek Howard puts on a record to listen to with his drink. This song remains as the soundtrack for the Prime Howard scene in the Moskva cafe (also with the same drink, not Vodka this time:) and he actually sings a phrase from the song. But in his world its just the soundtrack, not actually playing in his background. A reminder that in his conversation with Meek Howard he claimed not to care for any specific music, so this was another lie on top of his wife being dead.

  • Love 7
mjc570

mjc570

I just watched the pilot, and enjoyed it very much.  Excellent acting from all, especially the always reliable JKS.  So many familiar faces - in addition to Kai Proctor (since it's an alternate world, I guess he made it out of Banshee alive) and Olivia Williams, Harry Lloyd (also Manhattan, as well as GoT), Jamie Bamber.  I was very surprised by the wife reveal - I thought the show may have been setting it up so that badass Howard (Prime) could take over Meek Howard's life (and wife).

I just can't buy that the "Others" would put so much effort in killing Meek Howard's wife, just to "send a message" to Prime.  That makes no sense, although I assume we'll be finding out the real reason, hopefully sooner rather than later.

I know it's a fine line between a show making it easy for viewers to follow and spoon feeding, but I hope this doesn't become TOO confusing. 

  • Love 4
meira.hand

meira.hand

Quote
6 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

I know it's a fine line between a show making it easy for viewers to follow and spoon feeding, but I hope this doesn't become TOO confusing. 

 

Try this interview with the series creator. It elaborates some of the thinking behind the way they decided to go with the show. I found it quite fascinating and it made me want to make the effort. I am now on third re-watch of the pilot and still discovering little details I missed before. What I like about shows that do not explain too much is that it invited audience discussions via forums. 

http://www.slashfilm.com/counterpart-interview/

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mjc570

mjc570

22 minutes ago, meira.hand said:

Try this interview with the series creator. It elaborates some of the thinking behind the way they decided to go with the show. I found it quite fascinating and it made me want to make the effort. I am now on third re-watch of the pilot and still discovering little details I missed before. What I like about shows that do not explain too much is that it invited audience discussions via forums. 

http://www.slashfilm.com/counterpart-interview/

Thanks!

mjc570

mjc570

Just rewatched (and enjoyed), and now have a few questions.  What does Howard do with the rest of his workday when he's not spending 5 minutes "interfacing"?  Speaking of which - what's the point of the prearranged phrases?  I just didn't get the purpose of that,  Also, if the worlds split 30 years ago, and Howard didn't meet Emily until 28 years ago (ie, after the split) - why is Howard prime involved with his world's version?  Another question - when Howard was going up to see Quarles for his interview - was that circle transporting him to the other world?  Or, was it just some kind of security thing, although it didn't seem like he was being scanned. 

Can't wait for the next episode. 

  • Love 1
wilnil

wilnil

2 hours ago, mjc570 said:

Just rewatched (and enjoyed), and now have a few questions.  What does Howard do with the rest of his workday when he's not spending 5 minutes "interfacing"?  Speaking of which - what's the point of the prearranged phrases?  I just didn't get the purpose of that,  Also, if the worlds split 30 years ago, and Howard didn't meet Emily until 28 years ago (ie, after the split) - why is Howard prime involved with his world's version?  Another question - when Howard was going up to see Quarles for his interview - was that circle transporting him to the other world?  Or, was it just some kind of security thing, although it didn't seem like he was being scanned. 

Can't wait for the next episode. 

Mostly guessing here, but:

1. (Howard's workday) Damn good question. Maybe he has several such sessions each day, but we're only shown one so we know what's involved.

2. (prearranged phrases) To communicate this way, senior agents from both sides have to have worked out a "codebook" covering any general situations they might want to discuss. Then they can use flunkies to actually pass the messages and not worry about security being breached. Howard's session could translate as something like this: "We have information on the location of a natural resource to trade." "We are willing to offer technical knowledge in exchange." "We can send a negotiator at noon tomorrow." "Agreed on noon tomorrow." Since information is apparently what they primarily trade, you want communication methods that convey only what you're willing to give.

3. (Emily) It seems like Howard Prime and Emily Prime have a much different relationship than their counterparts do. While both sets may be married (assuming Howard Prime didn't lie about that too), the Howards' conversation at "our" Howard's apartment implied that the two couples married in different ways and times. Probably they met in different ways as well.

4. (circle) My impression was that it was just "stand here where you're in full view of the cameras." His guide was allowed to stand off to the side.

  • Love 4
Haleth

Haleth

That was really good.  I'm surprised there isn't more activity here but hopefully more people will catch on.

I was reminded of the book The City and the City by China Mieville.  Anyone read that?  It's a sci fi story of two adjacent cities (one prosperous, one in an economic decline) and the simmering tension between them.  I'm wondering if that isn't going to be important to the plot here-- one of the Berlins is technologically advanced while the other has developed more slowly.  (I can see similarities to The Man in the High Castle too.)

I loved that meek Howard found a voice and demanded some reciprocity for his help.  Good on you, Howard, but next time don't forget the little details!  I kept shouting at him that he forgot about the nurse's flower but he didn't hear me.

  • Love 9
meira.hand

meira.hand

On 1/27/2018 at 3:31 PM, Haleth said:

That was really good.  I'm surprised there isn't more activity here but hopefully more people will catch on.

it seems to happen a lot with series not on major network/cable/streaming companies or major stars, especially in the beginning. If they are good however, they catch on later by word of mouth. One other such series is Travelers, that thankfully got a second series but still waiting for a renewal for a third. Anyway, there is also an active forum going on on Reddit, so I find myself jumping between the two (after the demise of the IMDb message board, I get it where I can find it:).
https://www.reddit.com/r/Counterpart/

  • Love 4
kenosha kid

kenosha kid

On 28/01/2018 at 12:31 AM, Haleth said:

That was really good.  I'm surprised there isn't more activity here but hopefully more people will catch on.

I was reminded of the book The City and the City by China Mieville.  Anyone read that?  It's a sci fi story of two adjacent cities (one prosperous, one in an economic decline) and the simmering tension between them.  I'm wondering if that isn't going to be important to the plot here-- one of the Berlins is technologically advanced while the other has developed more slowly.  (I can see similarities to The Man in the High Castle too.)

I loved that meek Howard found a voice and demanded some reciprocity for his help.  Good on you, Howard, but next time don't forget the little details!  I kept shouting at him that he forgot about the nurse's flower but he didn't hear me.

The BBC are making a series of The City and the City, due for release this year!

A great book, and probably Mieville's most filmable.

I reckon Embassytown is just as good, but can't see how it could ever be adapted for the screen.

Counterpart does seem to owe an (unacknowledged) debt to Mieville here. I'm still really enjoying the show though.

call me ishmael

call me ishmael

On 12/12/2017 at 11:22 AM, Real4real said:

While I did enjoy this show and plan to watch it, I have one small nitpick--why would the nurse leave the empty vase on the counter?  That just seemed weird to me.  I would have put the old flowers back in the vase--they certainly weren't dead looking after just one day and it would have looked better than just an empty vase sitting there--or moved the empty vase off the counter.  I know that it was critical to the story, but it just bugged me!  Howard throwing out the flowers every day bugged me too come to think of it!  I guess I don't have fresh flowers very often, so I keep them until they are seriously DEAD!

Really great start though!

It was especially weird because she had never done it before. He took the old ones out didn't he?  But I also thought that it was a pretty weak need to pin the shootout on.  Do we have any evidence that Baldwin had been in Meek's world very long? So how had she determined that he did the flowers every night? Are we supposed to assume that she had people following him in advance?

  • Love 1
PreBabylonia

PreBabylonia

(edited)
On 2018-01-08 at 7:49 PM, xaxat said:

I enjoyed it and am intrigued by the premise. In addition to the previously mentioned Fringe, it also reminds me of the dystopian bureaucratic video game "Papers Please."

OMG does ANYONE make it thru the border? Looks like an interesting game though, I always loved the original computer games and it definitely has that retro feel to it. I can definitely see the similarity to Counterpart. I loved the alternate universe in Fringe, I hope this one is ultimately as satisfying.

Edited by PreBabylonia
"a" is not the same as "as"
misstwpherecool

misstwpherecool

On 1/21/2018 at 8:20 PM, jcin617 said:

So if crossing is so strictly regulated and a single crossing, how are all these spies and assasins and what not crossing?   Why let anyone through with “visas”?    I guess inter-world politics and relations will be covered more as time goes on?

What is the eventual goal or end game. Merge back into one world? Are they trying to make everything equal hoping things will merge back into one world?

Are they sure it was an accident or there really is a parallel universe?

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