S08.E08: How It's Gotta Be

[peach]

Well, if he survives it somehow, it's a good thing he didn't let Negan kill him.  lol  But seriously, I think he's a goner.  He went ahead and cut his hair for a new movie role, he's moving on.

[Kiki777]

15 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

If they re-cast Carl, that would be the worst thing they could do. Holy crap.

Oh I agree, but the show runner is quite capable of pulling crap like that- I know there was an issue with CR aging out of the role.  Maybe they're trading him in for a younger model and that's why CR's dad is pissed and Gimple is being shady about the actual outcome of the bite. 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Kiki777 said:

Oh I agree, but the show runner is quite capable of pulling crap like that- I know there was an issue with CR aging out of the role.  Maybe they're trading him in for a younger model and that's why CR's dad is pissed and Gimple is being shady about the actual outcome of the bite. 

You'd think they would just do a time jump. Make Carl like 15 and looks older you know? It's crazy they haven't done one yet. Like a 3 year time jump.

[Kiki777]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

You'd think they would just do a time jump. Make Carl like 15 and looks older you know? It's crazy they haven't done one yet. Like a 3 year time jump.

Come to think of it, that 'Old Man Rick' sequence from the season premiere (if it was not a dream or fantasy) could be a time jump, and Carl was there but we didn't see his face.  maybe they are planning a switcheroo. 

[catrox14]

Just now, Kiki777 said:

Come to think of it, that 'Old Man Rick' sequence from the season premiere (if it was not a dream or fantasy) could be a time jump, and Carl was there but we didn't see his face.  maybe they are planning a switcheroo. 

Wasn't Judith the age she is now in that sequence? I'm trying to figure out how that will work.

[jls1792]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Wasn't Judith the age she is now in that sequence? I'm trying to figure out how that will work.

In the old man Rick sequence?  The girl in that sequence was probably around 6 or 7 years old.  Judith is probably around 2 in present time

[catrox14]

Just now, jls1792 said:

In the old man Rick sequence?  The girl in that sequence was probably around 6 or 7 years old.  Judith is probably around 2 in present time

Ohhh. Thanks. I only watched that once. So yeah, that could be a time jump there. Huh.

[jls1792]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Ohhh. Thanks. I only watched that once. So yeah, that could be a time jump there. Huh.

The only thing is though that I'm pretty sure Carl was there too.  So either it's a fantasy of what could have been or Rick hallucinates Carl still being there 

Or Carl doesn't die and is there but again, that would be really hard to do now.

[Kiki777]

Yeah hard to tell the timeline - Rick looked waaaay older but Michonne looked the same.

[rmontro]

16 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I've been hearing that Fear the Walking Dead has gotten much better (I don't watch). 

Nope, it's still horrible.

15 hours ago, jcin617 said:

Rick saw a helicopter fly by overhead when he has on his way to visit trash dump people three episodes ago.

They're doing a Fear the Walking Dead crossover, maybe they're going to bring in the Z Nation people also  :)

[Anela]

9 hours ago, peach said:

It seems to be they've turned Negan into the superhero, and Rick into Charlie Brown.  

 

THIS is what makes it so damned aggravating.  If Negan is going to escape Rick's clutches, then at least make it believable.  Why on earth would they construct a scene where Rick actually gets a hold of Lucille and doesn't HIT HIM WITH IT.   Rick is the first person in history to use a bat to hit something with the handle.  And the part he's holding has the barbed wire on it.  Then two seconds later, he does get his gun back...and...runs away.  A point I've harped on numerous times because it's so terrible!  He later says Negan's still out there somewhere.  SOMEWHERE LIKE YOUR HOUSE?  And in the big picture, Michonne and company are just standing around in Alexandria and don't know Negan's coming til HE KNOCKS ON THE GATE.  And then nobody fucking shoots him.  There are no words for how dumb it all is.  Chandler will probably be glad he's gone when watches the remaining seasons.

 

9 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Rick = Charlie Brown going for the kick

Negan = football

GImple & Co - are Lucy pulling it away

Haha! This is the way I pictured it. It reminded me of a Lorelai Gilmore quote, something like, "oh look Lucy, is that a football for me to kick?"

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I don't get that either. I think that for some people it is because Judith is female that people dismiss her existence.

Not for me. It's because she's a baby, and Carl is close to being an adult. He's already dealt with a lot, and I pictured him, Judith, and Maggie's baby running things together.

theres a teen book series out there, that I read a few years ago. I can't remember what it's called, but I think it was recommended here. a zombie series. One character is a girl who raised herself after a certain point, out in the middle of nowhere. She fights zombies. There are people in a town, protected by those who have the weapons, and go out in search of supplies, as well as "putting down" zombies. 

[Anela]

Oh, rot and ruin - that might have been the book. 

[FierceCritter]

Watched a few YouTube channels I frequent re: comics, etc. about this episode. One of them said that Chandler flat out said yes, he dies. There's no immunity to the virus, etc. So that sews that up for me. I can move on from denial to anger and acceptance.

At least one of these YouTubers thinks this is going to kill the show. Supposedly they were shooting for TWENTY seasons. And he thinks without Carl being part of the journey, Rick has no real reason to fight as hard to go on. Yes, there is Judith. But said YouTuber pointed out - his whole thing from episode 1 was find Lori and Carl. Well, both of them are gone now. So... yeah. There's Michonne and Judith still. But it's not the same. If any piece of Officer Friendly still existed in Rick up until now, he can be buried with Carl.

I will probably watch the last half of this season. But I have a feeling I'll just find myself caring less and less and less, and then stop watching altogether. And you know, that makes me really, really sad.

Oh - by the way, watched at least one breakdown video of the ep 9 teaser. Pointed out that yes, Carl does appear in the "Old Man Rick" vision. From what I can tell now, I think that will be Carl envisioning what life will be like for the rest of them after he's gone. Reassuring himself that yes, they'll all be ok.

And damn if I didn't make myself cry just now.

[Yolapukka]

I'm reading this thread to spoil myself so I won't have to watch and waste my time with a formerly good show turning to absolute crap. I'm so glad I stopped watching out of disinterest partway through. I don't even particularly care that much about Carl as a character in and of himself, but his place in relation to others was important. (Especially with Glenn gone.) I'm actually kind of amused that Gimple is justifying the decision to kill him off in order to keep Negan stinking up the joint.  So they're jumping left where the comics went right in order to honour a bad plot point from the comics. That is spectacularly brainless. 

Even if they hadn't decided to kill Carl off I'd have a hard time persuading myself to give the show more of my time after the past year. The writing has been So. Damn. Bad.

Edited December 13, 2017 by yuggapukka

[FierceCritter]

5 minutes ago, yuggapukka said:

I'm reading this thread to spoil myself so I won't have to watch and waste my time with a formerly good show turning to absolute crap

Funny you say this. When season 6 ended, I flat-out asked to be spoiled on here, privately. I just did not feel like dealing with months-long speculation and anxiety about who was going to bite it with that bat. But prior to that, I would get furious if anyone spoiled anything for me. My sister spoiled Carl getting his eye shot out and I about lost it on her.

Just a little while ago, I started watching YouTube commentary videos about this. And not only didn't avoid spoilers, nearly sought them out. Didn't shut off the video if they warned against spoilers. Didn't turn off the video once they got into them.

This is really telling. That I really just don't give a crap anymore. That now that Carl's going to be gone, my personal reason for watching is going to be dead and buried with him early in the last half of s08.

Basically - who. cares.

[Smad]

I don't know why but IMO all people need to watch are the A/B Premieres and Finales. Those are the only episodes that set up plot or have plot and that kills off characters. What's in between is predictable in that there is zero plot and zero character development.

Premiere: Sets up plot of the Season, maybe someone dies, new people added

Episode 2: focus on Community A, little or no plot, Character A does something stupid, Character B does something less stupid, Character C is completely OOC

Episode 3-7:  See Episode 2 but each set in another community

Finale: all the characters come together in a competition for 'who is the dumbest?' while red-shirts get killed and maybe a main character

Lather. Rinse. Repeat. And you have the B part of the Season.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Smad

[jls1792]

4 hours ago, FierceCritter said:

Watched a few YouTube channels I frequent re: comics, etc. about this episode. One of them said that Chandler flat out said yes, he dies. There's no immunity to the virus, etc. So that sews that up for me. I can move on from denial to anger and acceptance.

At least one of these YouTubers thinks this is going to kill the show. Supposedly they were shooting for TWENTY seasons. And he thinks without Carl being part of the journey, Rick has no real reason to fight as hard to go on. Yes, there is Judith. But said YouTuber pointed out - his whole thing from episode 1 was find Lori and Carl. Well, both of them are gone now. So... yeah. There's Michonne and Judith still. But it's not the same. If any piece of Officer Friendly still existed in Rick up until now, he can be buried with Carl.

I will probably watch the last half of this season. But I have a feeling I'll just find myself caring less and less and less, and then stop watching altogether. And you know, that makes me really, really sad.

Oh - by the way, watched at least one breakdown video of the ep 9 teaser. Pointed out that yes, Carl does appear in the "Old Man Rick" vision. From what I can tell now, I think that will be Carl envisioning what life will be like for the rest of them after he's gone. Reassuring himself that yes, they'll all be ok.

And damn if I didn't make myself cry just now.

Regarding Rick losing his reason to fight, Andrew Lincoln actually pretty much said everyone you have in your post that I put in bold.  Andrew has said that he was shocked by the death and said they took away his wife and kid, which were his reason for waking up from the coma and fighting.  He also said that while he has Judith, it's basically not the same and he doesn't know where there going to go with this because Rick just lost what he was fighting for.  

I never thought about the "Old Man Rick" vision being a vision from Carl's perspective.  That's an interesting theory and could work.  

4 hours ago, Smad said:

I don't know why but IMO all people need to watch are the A/B Premieres and Finales. Those are the only episodes that set up plot or have plot and that kills off characters. What's in between is predictable in that there is zero plot and zero character development.

Premiere: Sets up plot of the Season, maybe someone dies, new people added

Episode 2: focus on Community A, little or no plot, Character A does something stupid, Character B does something less stupid, Character C is completely OOC

Episode 3-7:  See Episode 2 but each set in another community

Finale: all the characters come together in a competition for 'who is the dumbest?' while red-shirts get killed and maybe a main character

Lather. Rinse. Repeat. And you have the B part of the Season.

This is pretty spot on.  I've only seen the premiere and clips of the finale, but I know some of what happened in episodes 2-7.  And while you do learn some stuff in those episodes, it mostly is the premieres and finales that move the plot along. 

Chandler wins the internet :D

Quote

Chandler Riggs @chandlerriggs

don't worry guys, i'll be in the 2nd half of the season.  in a white dress on a bridge. 

 

[SimoneS]

18 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

And how about his befuddlement that fans didn't REALIZE when Carl was bitten?

Yeah, I saw the scene and, yeah, I thought "Oh, shit, Carl got bit!," but then...well, no mention was made of it and this show has some pretty craptastic editing at times, so I wrote it off to a poorly edited/choreographed scene.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who did the same thing.

So, Gimple, go fuck yourself.  NOTHING was clear about that scene and it was intentionally choreographed to be vague.  Don't act like the fans are too ignorant to appreciate the wonders of your self-perceived brilliance.  

Agreed. I didn't understand why Gimple refused to be forthright about Carl getting bit. When I saw the scene, I immediately thought that Carl was bit. It looked like the walker that came up from under him on his blind side had bitten him, but the camera blocked the actual bite with the walker that was on top of him. His reaction after also seemed to confirm that he had been bit. I mentioned it when I was commenting on the live thread, but I think only one other poster seemed to think that Carl was bit. On the other forum, I visit there was a debate about whether or not he was bit, with some people agreeing with me that he was and other disagreeing. It is obvious the show was deliberately misleading the audience to make a huge reveal of the bite in the MSF. It did the same thing when both Bob and Deanna when they were bit.  

 

16 hours ago, peach said:

 THIS is what makes it so damned aggravating.  If Negan is going to escape Rick's clutches, then at least make it believable.  Why on earth would they construct a scene where Rick actually gets a hold of Lucille and doesn't HIT HIM WITH IT.   Rick is the first person in history to use a bat to hit something with the handle.  And the part he's holding has the barbed wire on it.  Then two seconds later, he does get his gun back...and...runs away.  A point I've harped on numerous times because it's so terrible!  He later says Negan's still out there somewhere.  SOMEWHERE LIKE YOUR HOUSE?  And in the big picture, Michonne and company are just standing around in Alexandria and don't know Negan's coming til HE KNOCKS ON THE GATE.  And then nobody fucking shoots him.  There are no words for how dumb it all is.  Chandler will probably be glad he's gone when watches the remaining seasons.

If I could give you 100 likes, I would. It is the desperate lengths the show is going to to save Negan that has made me stop loving the show.

Edited December 13, 2017 by SimoneS

[AngelaHunter]

4 hours ago, jls1792 said:

Chandler wins the internet :D

Looks like he might have been reading fanfic, although I sincerely hoped he had not.

[Persnickety1]

14 hours ago, GenerationX said:

Agreed.  When I decide to re-watch the show from Season 1 Episode 1, I'll be stopping at Season 5, Episode 9 "What Happened and What's Going On".  Beth had just died, Tyreese dies, and good storytelling is about to die.

Tyreese's death still pisses me off.   I don't follow the comics, but I was informed he didn't die in such a stupid, senseless way.  This was a guy who just killed numerous walkers with his bare hands to save Judith...and he died with his head up his ass staring at pictures on a wall and totally oblivious to his surroundings.  

And then to add insult to injury, AMC/Gimple bring back a host of ex cast members for his mortal send off.....

Except for Karen, who was supposed to be the love of his life, and after all the fuck-and-awe in the Tyreese/Carol forgiveness story line.  Guess AMC didn't want to loosen up the purse strings to bring the actress back for an episode.  

I'm not sure which death pisses me off more, the death of Tyreese or the death of Carl.  

If Gimple was hell bent on killing off  Carl, why not let him go out protecting  Judith or Michonne instead of being bitten whilst "freeing the souls" of a small group of walkers that weren't even an immediate threat?

Ugh, Gimple, you suck.  

[Mu Shu]

So no one in any of the three communities thought that they should have perimeter lookouts, what with attacking the sanctuary and all .  Negan just rolls up in huge, loud trucks and no one saw it coming.

Why did Daryl, Michonne and whoever else lie in wait and ambush the Dwight brigade, and then go back to Alexandria?  They knew the idiots were on the loose, and should have continued lying in wait.  But no, they’re in the sewer all miserable instead of taking action.  Dumb. 

[Smad]

56 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

I'm not sure which death pisses me off more, the death of Tyreese or the death of Carl.

Boy am I glad that neither makes me feel anything. Being pissed just takes so much energy. Apathy is the better way to go.

59 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

If Gimple was hell bent on killing off  Carl, why not let him go out protecting  Judith or Michonne instead of being bitten whilst "freeing the souls" of a small group of walkers that weren't even an immediate threat?

Nobody stone me but I actually love the irony in Carl's death. He ends up dying like he should have since early on, especially in S2+. Sneaking out of the house, off into the woods, taking unnecessary risks for no good reason...there is only so long that you can do that until luck runs out.

[Persnickety1]

19 minutes ago, Smad said:

Boy am I glad that neither makes me feel anything. Being pissed just takes so much energy. Apathy is the better way to go.

Nobody stone me but I actually love the irony in Carl's death. He ends up dying like he should have since early on, especially in S2+. Sneaking out of the house, off into the woods, taking unnecessary risks for no good reason...there is only so long that you can do that until luck runs out.

I enjoy getting pissed off at this show....It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside (or maybe that's just the wine I'm usually consuming whilst it airs).  

Yeah, you're right about the irony of Carl's death.  Too bad there wasn't a scene where Michonne told him "Stay in the house, Carl" right before he went off in search of Siddiq.  That would have really brought it full circle. 

I'm waiting to see if they bury Carl with the hat or if Rick starts wearing it again.   Maybe Gimple will decide it's time to kill the hat, too.  

[Dobian]

17 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

I think I hate Simon's speechifying more than Negan's. One monologuing villain is enough. The whole lot of them will never STFU. Does Negan put them through some special "I am Negan" training camp where they learn to talk their victims to death with ridiculous, self-important, meant to be intimidating word vomit? Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Save Dwight -- I don't think Dwight got enough training to be a completely annoying "I am Negan" monologist. He's just annoying in other ways. 

I wanted to throw things at my TV this episode just to shut them all up. 

Simon is a redneck idiot.  This show goes out of its way to cast the most boorish and obnoxious villains and force you to watch them.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Persnickety1 said:

Yeah, you're right about the irony of Carl's death.  Too bad there wasn't a scene where Michonne told him "Stay in the house, Carl" right before he went off in search of Siddiq.  That would have really brought it full circle.

It's irony and kind of sadness too I guess. In that Carl died for yet another person's delusion where walkers are concerned. How many times is this nonsense going to happen and why do the 'sane' characters give into other peoples delusions, stupidly putting themselves at risk. And it's also sad because Carl should be perfectly capable to fight off a couple of walkers and have the right weapons with him. But I'm not so much sad because of Carl himself but because it's yet another one of those 'character x gets dumb-ed down and get themselves killed' death ala Beth or Tyreese.

12 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Which pretty much makes Rick a character that isn't going to die anytime within the next decade or so.  Assuming Carl bites the big one, that leaves Rick to raise Judith.  I would also imagine that Carl's death would cause Rick to reevaluate his priorities in terms of leaving to go off and do stupid shit.  He has to be wondering if he had only stayed home more often to keep an eye on Carl, would Carl have gotten bitten.  There are plenty of characters that can be sent off to do stupid shit.  Rick isn't the only character with the stupidity gene.

That's what is so devastating for me where Michonne is concerned. If she hadn't left Alexandria for really, absolutely no good reason at all, then Carl might have not been able to sneak off that easy. Although to be fair, Carl always managed to get away even if his parents were in the vicinity. And Rick will blame himself too, not just for going off constantly and leaving others to take care of his kids but if he hadn't scared off Siddiq by shooting his gun then they might have brought him into Alexandria earlier and it could have been avoided.

[stormy weather]

5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Which pretty much makes Rick a character that isn't going to die anytime within the next decade or so.  

I just hope Carl's death doesn't lead to 8 episodes of either Rick wandering the woods crying, kicking the trees in outbursts of rage and yelling "why me" in hope of falling prey to a zombie and meeting the same fate as his beloved (?) child OR endless interior monologues of Rick sitting on a rocking chair staring into space waiting for Negan to come kill him.

Although, actually, it could be beneficial to have him out of everyone's hair for a while so maybe people will remember they also used to have a brain (oh' Caaaaarol!) and can get shit done faster and more efficiently than Rick ever did while he's wallowing in self pity mourning the death of a son whom I strongly doubt he would even recognize at this point, since the amount of time they spent together in the past 4 seasons probably adds up to 4 hours total, and I'm not talking about screen time.

[DearEvette]

17 hours ago, FierceCritter said:

But nearly EVERYONE who has posted here has done so with MUCH outrage over Carl dying. Not everyone, but most. I can't help but think this MUST be another major fake-out somehow, someway. They can't possibly be THAT out of touch with their viewers, can they?

But if it is another fake=out then they are massively out of touch with their viewers because they already did it once with Glen.  It would absolutely send the message that they aren't trying to tell a story, but are just fucking with their fandom.

I am not so much as outraged that Carl might be dead, I am mad that his death might just be one more death in the show that means nothing except to get fans talking about a major death.  If he is dead, will it galvanize Rick?  Michonne? Will it represent some sort of sea change in the direction of the story?  What does it really accomplish except them being able to say they killed off yet another major character.  What is worse, where is his emotional replacement?  In early seasons before we lost a characters with history, we got introduced to newer characters that we could get to know.  In S2 we lost Shane but we got Maggie, Hershel & Beth.  In S3 we lost Lorie, but we got Michonne, Tyreses and Sasha, in S4 we lost Herschel & Beth but we got Abraham, Eugene and Rosita.  And we actually got a sense of them as characters with some background and built history.  But since the Saviors came we only seem to have gotten Jesus.  (Ha!)  And his characterization is as thin as paper.  I don't feel like we really have anyone to care about anymore because they aren't taking the time to give us a story with stakes to make use care.

 

2 hours ago, Smad said:

Nobody stone me but I actually love the irony in Carl's death. He ends up dying like he should have since early on, especially in S2+. Sneaking out of the house, off into the woods, taking unnecessary risks for no good reason...there is only so long that you can do that until luck runs out.

 

I honestly think they were trying to take a page from The Wire.  The character of Omar was such a bigger than life personality on the show, you just knew that if he was gonna die, he was gonna die spectacular.  But in the end he died kinda ignominiously.  And it was sad but it worked as a great coda for the character.  Like I said above, Carl dying, no matter how great or glorious or little and sad, doesn't really mean anything, because the show itself just feels so diminished.

[Persnickety1]

17 minutes ago, Smad said:

It's irony and kind of sadness too I guess. In that Carl died for yet another person's delusion where walkers are concerned. How many times is this nonsense going to happen and why do the 'sane' characters give into other peoples delusions, stupidly putting themselves at risk. And it's also sad because Carl should be perfectly capable to fight off a couple of walkers and have the right weapons with him. But I'm not so much sad because of Carl himself but because it's yet another one of those 'character x gets dumb-ed down and get themselves killed' death ala Beth or Tyreese.

That's what is so devastating for me where Michonne is concerned. If she hadn't left Alexandria for really, absolutely no good reason at all, then Carl might have not been able to sneak off that easy. Although to be fair, Carl always managed to get away even if his parents were in the vicinity. And Rick will blame himself too, not just for going off constantly and leaving others to take care of his kids but if he hadn't scared off Siddiq by shooting his gun then they might have brought him into Alexandria earlier and it could have been avoided.

Your comment about dumbing down characters reminded me of something else that pissed me off with this episode.

There is a lovely scene of Michonne and Judith by the pond having some quiet time. 

Michonne kisses Judith good bye and goes off on her merry way.   

And then I realize there is absolutely no one else around or anywhere to be seen.  

WTF was up with leaving Judith (who's what, 2 or 3 maybe?) alone, and by a pond no less.  Ye gads...

Previously Michonne would never have done irresponsible shit like that. 

It totally ruined what I had been enjoying as such a sweet (and much needed) scene in this show.  

[Smad]

54 minutes ago, stormy weather said:

I just hope Carl's death doesn't lead to 8 episodes of either Rick wandering the woods crying, kicking the trees in outbursts of rage and yelling "why me" in hope of falling prey to a zombie and meeting the same fate as his beloved (?) child OR endless interior monologues of Rick sitting on a rocking chair staring into space waiting for Negan to come kill him.

Did Carl have the letter he wrote with him underground? Does anyone know? I hope he didn't leave it in the house because then it might be blown up although Negan was in that house last we saw so maybe not. But my guess is Rick will honor Carl's last wishes and whip himself into shape for that. At least I hope so.

54 minutes ago, stormy weather said:

Although, actually, it could be beneficial to have him out of everyone's hair for a while so maybe people will remember they also used to have a brain (oh' Caaaaarol!) and can get shit done faster and more efficiently than Rick ever did while he's wallowing in self pity mourning the death of a son whom I strongly doubt he would even recognize at this point, since the amount of time they spent together in the past 4 seasons probably adds up to 4 hours total, and I'm not talking about screen time.

I don't think it's so much about the brain (although Carol is the only so far this Season from CDB who hasn't been a complete moron) but Team Rick is so fractured with each character indulging and wallowing in their feelings, they really messed it all up. The Kingdom and Hilltop are one unit who have it together because they have leaders who are capable of keeping a group together and functioning. Their people have also been shielded because they didn't have a leader who rushed into this Savior thing completely blind thinking themselves king of the mountain. Rick never had the best people skills and it shows in his team. Everyone has their own agenda or vendetta, a lot of them for perfectly good reasons. But a leader has to be capable of uniting the team in a way that makes people believe it can get done and they all can sort out their sh*t after it's over. Carol can do that, that's how she's always been. Rick is the kind of guy who goes to a group that already betrayed him, get himself locked in a box with really no guarantee he gets out anytime soon, have a fight to the death and then get abandoned by that group the second the battle field isn't what they thought it would be. Is it any surprise that most of his troops go rogue? I mean, that stupidity is their leader. I wouldn't have much faith in that guy.

I honestly think that's one reason why they killed off Carl. The group is so fractured right now, Rick won't be able to fix it because he lacks the skills. But now with Carl's death, I imagine most of them (if not all) will put aside whatever personal issues they have and pull together, for Rick and for Carl. There was no way to fix the mess they had become but an event like this would certainly achieve that. I couldn't see another way out for the writers to achieve getting them all back together and have a plan they all follow for once because they have screwed all these characters over with their nonsensical writing.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Smad

[Smad]

15 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

There is a lovely scene of Michonne and Judith by the pond having some quiet time. 

Michonne kisses Judith good bye and goes off on her merry way.   

And then I realize there is absolutely no one else around or anywhere to be seen.  

WTF was up with leaving Judith (who's what, 2 or 3 maybe?) alone, and by a pond no less.  Ye gads...

Previously Michonne would never have done irresponsible shit like that. 

It totally ruined what I had been enjoying as such a sweet (and much needed) scene in this show.  

Actually Judith is not alone. There is a wideshot before the closeup, left of Judith is a brunette woman/girl.

24 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I honestly think they were trying to take a page from The Wire.  The character of Omar was such a bigger than life personality on the show, you just knew that if he was gonna die, he was gonna die spectacular.  But in the end he died kinda ignominiously.  And it was sad but it worked as a great coda for the character.  Like I said above, Carl dying, no matter how great or glorious or little and sad, doesn't really mean anything, because the show itself just feels so diminished.

But I never saw Carl that way. When he wasn't on screen I forgot he even existed. A larger than life personality is felt even when they aren't there. But again that's me personally, I just don't care about Carl one way or the other. Watching paint dry is more entertaining than CR is as Carl. I feel more strongly about his stupid hair (CUT IT) and the damn hat (BURN IT) than I do the character.

[Palomar]

16 hours ago, rmontro said:

Nope, it's still horrible.

They're doing a Fear the Walking Dead crossover, maybe they're going to bring in the Z Nation people also  :)

I think Fear has gotten better. Hopefully the crossover won't be something that feels too forced.  Still not exactly sure how the timelines line up.

Re: Carl....it was pretty obvious when he started the "heroic arc" what was going down.  Why the 2nd generation...it's not like there are a lot of them?

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, Dobian said:

Simon is a redneck idiot.  This show goes out of its way to cast the most boorish and obnoxious villains and force you to watch them.

Worse, he's boring, like coma-inducing level of boring. Where did Kirkman get this crap? "Villains 101"? Simon can't speak one word without sneering/leering. Human beings don't act this way and you can't do that in live-action shows unless it's parody. Unfortunately, neither he nor Negan are funny enough for that. The writers/Kirkman/Gimble don't seem to know anything about human behavior, so we just get boring and dumb. Not sure why I find that surprising, at this point.

[Smad]

3 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Worse, he's boring, like coma-inducing level of boring. Where did Kirkman get this crap? "Villains 101"? Simon can't speak one word without sneering/leering. Human beings don't act this way and you can't do that in live-action shows unless it's parody. Unfortunately, neither he nor Negan are funny enough for that. The writers/Kirkman/Gimble don't seem to know anything about human behavior, so we just get boring and dumb. Not sure why I find that surprising, at this point.

It's like I said.

Trash People. Writers. Resemble.

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, Palomar said:

Re: Carl....it was pretty obvious when he started the "heroic arc" what was going down.  Why the 2nd generation...it's not like there are a lot of them?

Another thing that bugged me was when Carl was talking with Negan, he was speaking so quietly.  Seems like he'd have to talk more loudly so he could be heard, if not shout.  Negan was projecting his voice.

But yeah, killing off Carl is beyond idiotic.  There's no other male of that age to take over that role.  This may be Gimble's worst mistake, and that's saying something.

I saw an ad for rewatching the finale on demand, and even though I saw the episode, I still couldn't believe how dark the scenes were.  At this rate, they're one step away from making it a radio show.

[FierceCritter]

Googling is hard.

Has anyone ever heard of producers changing direction on a show due to viewer complaint/demand?

And yes, I'm wondering if they might not realize what a ginormous mistake they just made, and call for reshoots in time to change things up before the 2nd half of the season.

According to what I've read, the cast didn't find out about what was going to happen in episode 8 until they were rehearsing episode 6. So obviously there's room for changes if need be.

And yes, I'm back from anger/acceptance to bargaining. :D

I'm not asking if they'd do that in this case. I'm wondering if it's ever happened before.

Edited December 14, 2017 by FierceCritter

[Valmarmar]

My emotional reaction was looking at Michonne's look of true PANIC on her face.  So rare to see that from her that I immediately felt panic in my stomach !!!   

[SnarkyTart]

13 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I still couldn't believe how dark the scenes were.  At this rate, they're one step away from making it a radio show.

Except without closed captioning you wouldn't be able to understand most of the dialogue...such as it is. 

After spending a little time catching up with the last few pages of the thread I was thinking about how the episode threads on PTV are infinitely more interesting than the TWD itself has become.  Unlike Gimple and his stable of TWD writers, the posters here are intelligent, logical, reflective, entertaining, and sometimes uproariously hilarious.  It's also apparent that they once cared much more about this show than Gimple ever did. 

[rmontro]

40 minutes ago, SnarkyTart said:

It's also apparent that they once cared much more about this show than Gimple ever did. 

It's true, I enjoyed the first several seasons so much, and I'm still a big fan of the comic book.  They had a lot of good will there that they had to burn off, but burn it they did.

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Which pretty much makes Rick a character that isn't going to die anytime within the next decade or so.  

A decade?  A DECADE!?!?  No no no no no.

End of this season, maybe next season tops; that’s about all the life I see left to this series now.  

Gimp may seriously have killed the cash cow.

[ShadowSixx]

5 hours ago, Dobian said:

Simon is a redneck idiot.  This show goes out of its way to cast the most boorish and obnoxious villains and force you to watch them.

I can watch Simon when he's interacting with Gregory and for a while Simon was short and to the point. This episode he went into a Neganite rant which isn't good at all. Simon needs to keep it short and simple like he usually does. There was a point when I said Simon should have been the leader of the Saviors because he was a villain without being over the top cheesy like Negan.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, SnarkyTart said:

Except without closed captioning you wouldn't be able to understand most of the dialogue...such as it is. 

It's the only show where I have to use that. Without it, I swear I might catch one word in five. I don't know if the sound sucks, if the actors are mumbling or what, but when I forget to put the CC on, it causes cursing and rapid reaching for the remote.

1 hour ago, SnarkyTart said:

After spending a little time catching up with the last few pages of the thread I was thinking about how the episode threads on PTV are infinitely more interesting than the TWD itself has become.  Unlike Gimple and his stable of TWD writers, the posters here are intelligent, logical, reflective, entertaining, and sometimes uproariously hilarious.

Oh, I've said that before. Without this forum, I wouldn't bother watching the show, since I'd just be left disgusted and even insulted. This forum gives me a reason to watch. I didn't watch Rick's BVD-Gladiator act, but after reading hilarious posts about the ep on this forum, I decided to, just to join in on the fun here.

[mightysparrow]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Which pretty much makes Rick a character that isn't going to die anytime within the next decade or so.  Assuming Carl bites the big one, that leaves Rick to raise Judith.  I would also imagine that Carl's death would cause Rick to reevaluate his priorities in terms of leaving to go off and do stupid shit.  He has to be wondering if he had only stayed home more often to keep an eye on Carl, would Carl have gotten bitten.  There are plenty of characters that can be sent off to do stupid shit.  Rick isn't the only character with the stupidity gene.

One thing is certain:  Rick will NOT be raising Judith.  He hasn't so far.  Judith has been raised by a series of surrogates including Tyreese and Father Gabriel.  Since Morgan is leaving, perhaps Ezekiel will take over Judith-duty.

[Mu Shu]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

It's the only show where I have to use that. Without it, I swear I might catch one word in five. I don't know if the sound sucks, if the actors are mumbling or what, but when I forget to put the CC on, it causes cursing and rapid reaching for the remote.

Oh, I've said that before. Without this forum, I wouldn't bother watching the show, since I'd just be left disgusted and even insulted. This forum gives me a reason to watch. I didn't watch Rick's BVD-Gladiator act, but after reading hilarious posts about the ep on this forum, I decided to, just to join in on the fun here.

Without this forum, I wouldn’t even fucking know what happened on this show, and I watch it most of the time.  Sure I may be an idiot, but the show is also responsible for sucking.  

[AngelaHunter]

53 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

Without this forum, I wouldn’t even fucking know what happened on this show

Hee! That too. It was only from reading here that I knew the GPK ran off.

[tessabq]

Perhaps Aaron & Jesus will raise both Judith & Gracie?

[Smad]

9 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Without this forum, I wouldn’t even fucking know what happened on this show, and I watch it most of the time.  Sure I may be an idiot, but the show is also responsible for sucking.  

I think that's also a side effect of the show. It makes you more stupid the longer you watch it. I sometimes wonder if I were to blow a part of my brain out then maybe the show would make more sense.

[Mu Shu]

6 hours ago, tessabq said:

Perhaps Aaron & Jesus will raise both Judith & Gracie?

Then they can change their names to Shayna and Erika.  Good idea.  

[AngelaHunter]

9 hours ago, tessabq said:

Perhaps Aaron & Jesus will raise both Judith & Gracie?

Speaking of that, can someone remind me where Aaron dumped the baby Rick gave him? Even the parts of the show I can actually see I forget nearly instantly.

[AllyS]

2 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Speaking of that, can someone remind me where Aaron dumped the baby Rick gave him? Even the parts of the show I can actually see I forget nearly instantly.

I think that baby is at Hilltop. Maggie was holding a baby when she in the office talking to Enid and Jesus. After that, for reasons I can't remember, Enid skedaddled  off with Aaron, apparently heading off to Oceanside.

[CletusMusashi]

On 12/12/2017 at 3:34 PM, valandsend said:

How did this not tear up Rick's hands?

Same way he shrugs of nails through the hand, gunshots to the body, et cetera et cetera et cetera.

Rick can only be killed by staking, decapitation, or Andrew Lincoln finding a better job.