S02.E08: Chapter Twenty-One: House of the Devil

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

When Jughead learns that F.P. is getting released from prison, he and Betty organize a welcome home party; Archie and Veronica push their relationship issues aside to focus on the Black Hood investigation.

[WhosThatGirl]

Welp. This episode and I’m starting off with dread already. Based on the promo being odd, and Lilis w

Tweets and everything I’ve seen, in more than worried about the state of Bughead. And yes I sound like a crazy shipper but I’m really not. I’m just always expecting them to break up based on what we don’t get and what we do get from this couple. I never expect them to catch a break.  Or stay together for an episode- especially one where it looks like they get some screen time/nice moments.

 

So yeah.. starting this episode with a LOT of nervous energy and most of it bad nervous energy. Because I have really bad feelings before this episode has even started. The tweets from everyone involved all this weekend and today were not helping my feelings. 

 

And we are back to Jugheads monologues. 

 

I couldn’t not care real less about Archie and Veronica and their relationship. So.. that was a blip anytime it was on screen and I really have nothing else to say. They were totally ruined this season by all their scenes being “hot and heavy”.. like really Riverdale? You could have done better and you should have. But this is where we are. So the I love you to her response.. eh? I don’t care.

 

Also adorable diner Bughead scene. Reminds me of season 1 Bughead. I miss them. Where did that couple go? And at least these two may be communicating again. 

 

Aw yay FP is getting out of jail! Also love that these two delegate The Blackhood mystery to Veronica and Archie. Even if they weren’t dealing with the romantic stupid chapter.. really Varchie is no Bughead when it comes to mystery stuff.

 

I can’t watch Cheryl and Josie scenes anymore.  

 

Veronica rules! “I don’t know about those other  people but WE ARE ACTUAL SINNERS” that’s her line. Also odd with her parents being like let your boyfriend stay over. Sure. I guess. 

 

Jughead attempting to be a serpent leader. Sure. Still not buying it. Also.. when FP comes back won’t he be in charge anyway so what is Tall Boy even yelling about? Not that I care. I think I hate this story more and more it goes on.

 

Seriously.. Veronica and Archie trying to be Betty and Jughead is a terrible idea.

 

The scene with Jughead Betty FP and Alice was gold. Again. Season one vibes. But also.. FP wanting to get his life together was a nice moment. 

 

Seriously- what is up with Keller

Giving out all this information to sixteen year olds?!?! I mean.. I know he sucks at his job. But.. really. 

 

Aw. Good scene with Jughead and FP. But ugh. No don’t stay with the gang. I’m so tired of this story. And this is obviously going to cause a wedge with him and FP. Which is terrible.  Also.. seriously.. this is like some of the major character 180s from the first season (which you guys in the timeline has only been about three weeks) that bugs. Jughead now has undying loyalty and feelings towards the serpents? Okay.  Once again I agree with this person who said the show feels like a clip show- we didn’t get any feelings or scenes showing him developing these bonds? We got the gauntlet scenes, the scenes with Toni, the stuff with the Peabody lawyer which didn’t seem warm and fuzzy the sort of school scenes where all the kids just yelled at him, and that’s about it. Nothing that feels very bond like.

 

Cheryl needs to back up a little on her hate of FP. But maybe I’m saying this because they’ve decided to make her a stalker.  Can she burn down another house or something and be awesome? 

 

So when Toni and Betty were talking I was dreading that she was going to admit what happened the night of the gauntlet. But oh god.. Betty wants to join the gang?

 

And this is where the dance from the promo comes in? Ugh. Okay. That’s not.. I’m not a fan. I don’t know. Cringe worthy. 

 

Jughead is an idiot. Didn’t last week when he told the lawyer that he was one and done she told him “uh no” so why say it again this week?  Also.. Jughead was stupid to think that Betty wouldn’t become a pawn somewhere along the way. I’m more surprised it took this long for the show to use it.

 

I know I should have paid attention when Archie and Veronica were searching the house, but I can’t take these two seriously. Veronica is probably wearing heels. How the hell would she run from someone if the killer was actually there?  

 

During the cover girl commercial I realized I kind of miss the random shoehorned cover girl promotions this show had in season 1.  

 

Even Toni knows Penny is a bad idea and that Jughead is dumb. 

 

Okay so based on the diner where she shouted about their kids not making the mistakes they did  I’m thinking Alice and FP are the parents of Betty’s (and how Jugheads)long lost brotherwe heard about in season 1.Which.. ugh. I don’t want that story. I was hoping it would be something different than that. Because really.. let’s give that pairing more and more obstacles! And they did this on Gossip Girl and it was awful. I get it’s a show but it’s gross to me for this to be another obstacle.

 

I knew the creepy janitor was going to come back and haunt us.  But also.. he’s just a trauma survivor. No wonder he’s creepy.  But also Veronica found from zero to 100

On the guy was hilarious too. “You sounded a like the black hood just now.. where.. were YOU THE MORNING FRED ANDREWS WAS SHOT?” Like slow down Ronnie. But it was unintentionally funny.

 

Love that if Alice is going to the serpent bar, she’s going all in her leather.

 

Wow. Archie expecting a I Love You Back is a jerk move.  I was excited when he said to her that those were his feelings and not hers, and then she thanked him and his sour face was just so rude. Jerk. 

 

Wow. Lili has a good voice.  But her stripping was really uncomfortable. Like really uncomfortable. At least it was of her own consent. I think it was. Either way I was not a fan. I wish it hadn’t happened. 

 

And neither was Jughead. Seriously. She should have told him. I know he would have talked her out it more than likely but it’s things like this that make me question why they seem to hate this pairing. Because they really do.

 

FPS speech.. I knew he was going to change his mind about not being part of the gang anymore.  

 

I don’t know. I guess Jughead was disappointed because he probably thinks his dad can’t stay on the straight and narrow if he’s part of the gang.. which.. probably true. But aw he’s doing it to get Jughead out. Which is nice but again FP  is hurt by him. And now FP is drinking again and I’m sad.

 

And Bughead breaks up.. AGAIN! Are you kidding me?!?! This is crap. I’m sorry. 

 

And the door is open for Betty and Archie?!!! Are you kidding? After next week I might be done.

This was the most depressing episode of this show. No one can have nice things. 

[SeanC]

Once the show made Betty/Jughead into a thing, my opinion was that if the writers ever wanted to do anything more with Betty/Archie going forward, the only way to do that without irreparably damaging the various friendships was to have the existing pairings be on the outs for unrelated reasons first.  Which is, indeed, what they did.  I was feeling vindication with the dual breakup scenes at the end, but even I wasn't expecting them to already start signalling the possibility in the final shot.  This show is many things, but slow isn't one of them.

I thought both of the breakups were handled fairly well, on a writing level.  The whole "love" thing with Veronica was a bit last minute, but I think it fits the character well enough.

Alice has been somewhat underused so far this season, so she had a bit more to do here.

This week in "the show conflates the actors' ages with the characters", Betty (who is, what, 16?) does a poledance at a biker bar while a bunch of adults (including her mom and her boyfriend's dad) watch.

This week in the department of tonal shifts, last week the whole Cheryl/Josie thing was very horror-tinged, but this week her efforts to get closer to Josie take the form of rather goofy sitcom ploys like giving her a shoulder massage.

Edited December 7, 2017 by SeanC

[jay741982]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

Once the show made Betty/Jughead into a thing, my opinion was that if the writers ever wanted to do anything more with Betty/Archie going forward, the only way to do that without irreparably damaging the various friendships was to have the existing pairings be on the outs for unrelated reasons first.  Which is, indeed, what they did.  I was feeling vindication with the dual breakup scenes at the end, but even I wasn't expecting them to already start signalling the possibility in the final shot.  This show is many things, but slow isn't one of them.

I thought both of the breakups were handled fairly well, on a writing level.  The whole "love" thing with Veronica was a bit last minute, but I think it fits the character well enough.

Alice has been somewhat underused so far this season, so she had a bit more to do here.

This week in "the show conflates the actors' ages with the characters", Betty (who is, what, 16?) does a poledance at a biker bar while a bunch of adults (including her mom and her boyfriend's dad) watch.

But it is so gross if Barchie happens next episode after. Why do writers have to write couple swapping in these fricking shows its so gross 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, jay741982 said:

But it is so gross if Barchie happens next episode after. Why do writers have to write couple swapping in these fricking shows its so gross 

Yeah. I’m not into it. If they hook up next week I’m done. But then again I don’t get the need for them to at all. Also it would be so apparent and bad that Betty and Archie get to have sex and Jughead and Betty didn’t.

im sorry but the people behind this show have made it obvious to me as a viewer that they didn’t want Bughead to be a big thing. I think they wanted it to be a minor obstacle and it turned into a bigger thing and I don’t think they liked that.

I might watch next week and then be finished.  I’m not sure if any of you will miss me.

[Littlebitofcheese]

1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah. I’m not into it. If they hook up next week I’m done. But then again I don’t get the need for them to at all. Also it would be so apparent and bad that Betty and Archie get to have sex and Jughead and Betty didn’t.

im sorry but the people behind this show have made it obvious to me as a viewer that they didn’t want Bughead to be a big thing. I think they wanted it to be a minor obstacle and it turned into a bigger thing and I don’t think they liked that.

I might watch next week and then be finished.  I’m not sure if any of you will miss me.

I think they will rekindle the close friendship they had before everything... remember we never actually saw that. I think everyone should think along the lines of time apart will actually make both couples stronger rather than " OMG they are going to hook up"

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, Littlebitofcheese said:

I think they will rekindle the close friendship they had before everything... remember we never actually saw that. I think everyone should think along the lines of time apart will actually make both couples stronger rather than " OMG they are going to hook up"

I think it’s hard to believe it will be just be a friendship thing because of Archie’s longing looks at the end of last season and his actuaL behavior towards the opposite sex in general. I want to believe that it’s just friends but I don’t have much faith In that.

And Jugheads vo about Archie seeing the girl next door “maybe for the first time” implies something that doesn’t sound like friendship.

And this way the show can get to the triangle they seemed to always want- Betty Archie Veronica. 

I just don’t see how the friendships will keep working or be okay after it but whatever. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[bettername2come]

I liked Archie and Betty's portion of "Mad World," didn't like Veronica's. That dance was weird, but not as weird as Betty's singing continuing while she was doing it. I'm waiting for Betty to go full on split personality at this point, which just makes the pole dancing teenager even creepier. 

I liked Mrs. Cooper in Serpent gear. I liked FP wanting better for Jughead. That was a nice moment for them. I don't care too much for any of the couples, although the end of Bughead makes me sad. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by bettername2come

[Littlebitofcheese]

Folks the last scene is a play on emotions. I think Archie and Betty regain that close friendship. You have to remember these are supposed to be 16 yr old HS kids. So realistically they could/would/should break up... be apart and then get together a lot. I thought the show got stale for a few episodes but the last 2 have picked it up 2 notches.

Let's let it play out 3-4 episodes and see is all I am saying.... you might be pleasantly surprised.

[jay741982]

2 minutes ago, Littlebitofcheese said:

Folks the last scene is a play on emotions. I think Archie and Betty regain that close friendship. You have to remember these are supposed to be 16 yr old HS kids. So realistically they could/would/should break up... be apart and then get together a lot. I thought the show got stale for a few episodes but the last 2 have picked it up 2 notches.

Let's let it play out 3-4 episodes and see is all I am saying.... you might be pleasantly surprised.

I'm not intrested in breakup mAkeup many times especially Barchie Bughead or Varchie. And if Barchie goes to sex immediately but these writers couldn't bother giving Bughead Sexy times and with Bughead seemingly the most popular couple and they shit over it I bet their ratings go down

11 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I think it’s hard to believe it will be just be a friendship thing because of Archie’s longing looks at the end of last season and his actuaL behavior towards the opposite sex in general. I want to believe that it’s just friends but I don’t have much faith In that.

And Jugheads vo about Archie seeing the girl next door “maybe for the first time” implies something that doesn’t sound like friendship.

And this way the show can get to the triangle they seemed to always want- Betty Archie Veronica. 

I just don’t see how the friendships will keep working or be okay after it but whatever. 

It's gross that Archie sees Betty like this now if true. He didn't notice her until she was unavailable those people are gross to m 

[madhacker]

well if you're watching the show for eye candy tonight was certainly your episode. They managed to get Archie shirtless 3 times in one episode. That's gotta a record for CW.

As for the scene with FP and Juggy in the end, I just hope Jugs doesn't like to go fishing ( everybody here whos seen The Godfather: part 2 knows what I'm talking about)

[Jeddah]

Just now, madhacker said:

As for the scene with FP and Juggy in the end, I just hope Jugs doesn't like to go fishing ( everybody here whos seen The Godfather: part 2 knows what I'm talking about)

That was too funny. Did FP mean to make that reference? Jughead’s a film guy, so I wanted him to say he’s not Fredo. I guess he was too stunned to be his normal smartass self. If anyone asks Jughead to go on a boat ride on Sweetwater River, I hope he says no.

[truthaboutluv]

Also, it's kind of in Archie's ammo to start eyeing another girl as soon as one relationship is done - case in point, Valerie was in his sights as soon as his fling with Grundy ended (while he was still making eyes at Veronica), then it was to Veronica seconds after he and Valerie ended, then he kept giving Betty wistful looks as soon as she announced how in love with Jughead she was. And now he and Veronica are done. Someone has to replace her. I mean god forbid they not parade K.J.'s naked chest around and throw in some makeout/psuedo sex scene with him in it.

Edited December 7, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, truthaboutluv said:

Also, it's kind of in Archie's ammo to start eyeing another girl as soon as one relationship is done - case in point, Valerie was in his sights as soon as his fling with Grundy ended (while he was still making eyes at Veronica), then it was to Veronica seconds after he and Valerie ended, then he kept giving Betty wistful looks as soon as she announced how in love with Jughead she was. And now he and Veronica are done. Someone has to replace her. I mean god forbid they not parade K.J.'s naked chest around and have throw in some makeout/psuedo sex scene with him.

And I feel like we as viewers are supposed to root for this. This is probably why I never find K.J. attractive. I don’t care when he’s shirtless.

[jay741982]

Yeah it's why i can't like Archie that much. I'm not gonna root for a guy who's eyeing other women with he's with one and i defintely am not rooting for him and Betty to hook up especially after both him and Betty just broke up with Jug and Veronica. Plus Betty is Veronicas BFF and I'm pretty sure Jughead still is in love with her.  Im not one of those fools wanting Barchie to rise next week. 

[AdorkableSars]

REALLY, Archie? Veronica can’t say “Love” yet, so you suddenly get goo-goo ga-ga over Betty? REALLY, Betty? Jughead breaks up with you to protect you because you alarmingly did a weird, slutty dance, and the second Archie looks longingly at you, you’re back on the Archie train? REALLY?

Where are Seth Meyers and Amy Poehler when you need them?

Oh DAMN SON. The chemistry between FP and Alice is hella hot and electrifying. Like a portable wok. (Is that a thing?) They definitely have a past, and maybe a future?

This episode legitimately made me cry twice. I’m a big time crier at shows/movies/commercials/etc, just a sensitive freak. But I can honestly say that before tonight, I never once cried at Riverdale. Damn scene where FP told Jughead he came back to the Serpents to protect him from Penny and the scene where Jughead broke up with Betty and told her to leave.

On that note, can Jughead ever catch a break? Every episode, my hearts breaks a little more for him. Tonight was especially rough, because it seemed as though FP was going to turn things after getting out of jail, but now he’s back in the Serpents and back to drinking. And it’s so, SO clear he loves and adores Betty so much, and it’s a soft spot for him, as evidenced when Penny brought her up. And then he felt as though he needed to push her away to protect her. It’s like he lost his Dad all over again and did lose Betty and pardon me while I go get another box of Kleenex...

I liked that this episode actually had quite a few humorous moments, such as the banter between Alice and FP at Pops, and pretty much every Alice scene at the Whyte Wyrm. It was nice to have some genuine laughs amongst all the angst and murdery stuff...

Betty's dance was Cringe City, and I'm the mayor. That was hella uncomfortable to watch. Even Toni told her not to. Hoo boy.

I did like that the tables turned, and that we saw Veronica and Archie sleuthing for once. It was pretty fun to watch.

Where the hell was Kevin this episode/ Also, not enough Cheryl. Enough Core Four drama - focus on some other characters too, pretty please??

[WhosThatGirl]

13 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Yeah it's why i can't like Archie that much. I'm not gonna root for a guy who's eyeing other women with he's with one and i defintely am not rooting for him and Betty to hook up especially after both him and Betty just broke up with Jug and Veronica. Plus Betty is Veronicas BFF and I'm pretty sure Jughead still is in love with her.  Im not one of those fools wanting Barchie to rise next week. 

Yeah. I sort of get why people are nostalgia for it cause comics but as someone who didn’t read said comics and have seen covers of them and what I hear, Archie is a jerk. He strings both girls along- especially Betty. Like really bad. Why would anyone want that? 

And in the show.. he’s much worse. He’s always looking for the next thing. The writers should not go there. But they probably will. But I agree, it would ruin all the friendships and the show would try to pretend that everything would be okay after it all. And nope. I can’t believe that.

And I’m sorry I will continue to say they the people behind this show really don’t like the pairing of Betty and Jughead. At least not this season. This episode we got so many good moments only to end with a breakup. Just like the episode where Betty sent Archie to break up with Jughead, we got such a nice moment only to end with a breakup. What is the point?

I don’t know. I’m not sure if I will watch next week. 

I feel bummed that this might be my swan song of this show.

I might say it ended for me with the deleted scenes of the first season when Jughead moves in with the coopers.

Edited December 7, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[MissL]

Ooh now I can't wait to watch. The sheer hysterics Bughead fans have had the first few episodes (and how they treated  the actress who played Toni) has actually actively turned me against the Bughead relationship myself. Again I'm singing the same old "they rushed that relationship" song I've been singing since last season. I hated the "you'd better keep them together or else" vibes I was getting and thinking about it would take me out of any scenes involving them, AND the Veronica/Archie nothing but sex relationship was also creeping me out.  All that combined  was really starting to color my enjoyment of the show. If both couples are truly broken up I'm excited and I hope all the couples stay apart for a while.  Focus on the friendships. Build that a bit more and then see where the relationships land.

[Artsda]

I loved this episode. 

[WhosThatGirl]

It’s hard for me to trust that writers plan on bringing Bughead back together though. I think they want Betty and Archie and Veronica to be a triangle that runs the show. I don’t know. 

Plus im worried about the core four friendship, once Betty and Archie hook up because they probably will, I doubt the friendship will be okay. Even though the show will probably try to play it off like it’s fine, I never buy that.  It just worries me and I think that’s what bothers me most is that inevitably the friendships with all our main four are going to be though the ringer.

Plus I hate the idea of Betty and Veronica fighting over Archie but that’s just me. I hate when female friendships have to be romantically entangled this way.

[AdorkableSars]

Three of the best parts in this episode:

1. Jughead's glorious hair.

2. FP's pinky raise when drinking his coffee.

3. Jughead calling Tall Boy a bitch. Profanity is a turn on for me, what can I say? 

[CletusMusashi]

During half the time that Betty was singing, it was quite clear that she was dancing around the pole without moving her lips.

So apparently her list of skills now includes ventrilioquism.

Edited December 7, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[Locutus]

Hardly any Black Hood talk. Now I'm wondering if it could be the son of the murderous preacher. He may be going after the children (Fred) and grandchildren  (Midge/Moose) of the men who killed his father.

[Snookums]

Quote

Jughead attempting to be a serpent leader. Sure. Still not buying it.

Neither am I. Because he's SIXTEEN YEARS OLD. What the hell kind of drug running death dealing down and dirty gang listens to a Goddamn teenager who legally can't even be in their headquarters BECAUSE IT'S A BAR? (The entire retirement party had me flinching because if Mayor McCoy wants to shut down the Serpents, a good place to start would be busting that party and all the underage drinkers who were either brought there by their parents, sent unescorted by their parents, or friggin' bartending! Good God, this show. At least last year when Ronnie went clubbing they had fake IDs!)

So, chuck HP onto the "terrible parent who blames their kid for his own choices" pile of Serpent jackets. That whole ersatz Godfather scene where he's all "How dare you, a terrified child abandoned by everyone, believe a lawyer who told you I was beaten up in prison? This is all your fault! Forehead smooch! Now, where's Alice? She and I have to set the entire bar on fire with our chemistry and also I'm drinking again!" was just...

Just, fuck this. I get the adults have to be a mix of crazy and oblivious so that the kids can get away with their outrageous antics but seriously, how are any of these sixteen year olds functional in any way? Cheryl is at least honest in being off the chain crazy and saying so; although they decided to make her a stalker out of nowhere so she's not even really attached to the story except when she's shoving her milkshake glass onto the floor.

So, at least they wrapped up the plot literally no one cared about: The Mystery Janitor! But it sounds like that crime has at least inspired the BH in some way so the whole excuse to break up Arch and Ronnie has something to occupy itself with. 

While the breakups were handled realistically enough--as much as you can expect from this show--and acted well, I'm getting weary from the whole "happy couples equal boredom" formula. Relationship dramas don't have to be endless friction and makeup/breakup cycles, especially when they're fabricated out of thin air. Archie and Ronnie were good together! A bit R rated but at least they seemed to have some connection beyond sex. Archie is actually interesting when he's interwoven with another character, not some standalone hero. Trust chemistry when it happens along, writers!

And that goes double for Betty and Jug. The "star crossed lovers" thing doesn't need this kind of leveling up. It especially doesn't need leveling up with stripping. A minor stripping. IN A BAR.

While I do admire the fact that both Ronnie and Betty were given scenes where they actually think about what they want, and why they find parts of their relationships hard, and I thought Lili played the whole "unsure but going for it" attitude really well, this is unnecessary. 

Quote

Jughead's glorious hair.

God, yes. It is SO UNFAIR that he gets that fabulous pelt! GIVE ME YOUR HAIR, COLE SPROUSE. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Snookums

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, Snookums said:

Neither am I. Because he's SIXTEEN YEARS OLD. What the hell kind of drug running death dealing down and dirty gang listens to a Goddamn teenager who legally can't even be in their headquarters BECAUSE IT'S A BAR? (The entire retirement party had me flinching because if Mayor McCoy wants to shut down the Serpents, a good place to start would be busting that party and all the underage drinkers who were either brought there by their parents, sent unescorted by their parents, or friggin' bartending! Good God, this show. At least last year when Ronnie went clubbing they had fake IDs!)

So, chuck HP onto the "terrible parent who blames their kid for his own choices" pile of Serpent jackets. That whole ersatz Godfather scene where he's all "How dare you, a terrified child abandoned by everyone, believe a lawyer who told you I was beaten up in prison? This is all your fault! Forehead smooch! Now, where's Alice? She and I have to set the entire bar on fire with our chemistry and also I'm drinking again!" was just...

Just, fuck this. I get the adults have to be a mix of crazy and oblivious so that the kids can get away with their outrageous antics but seriously, how are any of these sixteen year olds functional in any way? Cheryl is at least honest in being off the chain crazy and saying so; although they decided to make her a stalker out of nowhere so she's not even really attached to the story except when she's shoving her milkshake glass onto the floor.

So, at least they wrapped up the plot literally no one cared about: The Mystery Janitor! But it sounds like that crime has at least inspired the BH in some way so the whole excuse to break up Arch and Ronnie has something to occupy itself with. 

While the breakups were handled realistically enough--as much as you can expect from this show--and acted well, I'm getting weary from the whole "happy couples equal boredom" formula. Relationship dramas don't have to be endless friction and makeup/breakup cycles, especially when they're fabricated out of thin air. Archie and Ronnie were good together! A bit R rated but at least they seemed to have some connection beyond sex. Archie is actually interesting when he's interwoven with another character, not some standalone hero. Trust chemistry when it happens along, writers!

And that goes double for Betty and Jug. The "star crossed lovers" thing doesn't need this kind of leveling up. It especially doesn't need leveling up with stripping. A minor stripping. IN A BAR.

While I do admire the fact that both Ronnie and Betty were given scenes where they actually think about what they want, and why they find parts of their relationships hard, and I thought Lili played the whole "unsure but going for it" attitude really well, this is unnecessary. 

God, yes. It is SO UNFAIR that he gets that fabulous pelt! GIVE ME YOUR HAIR, COLE SPROUSE. 

Let’s be best friends! Everything your post said. This is a big reason why I’m thinking of bailing on this show. I’m really disliking this season a lot. Not just for the breakups but just because this episode was jam packed with a whole lot that was kind of awful.

I mean.. I’m really uncomfortable with the stripping scene. It was tame I guess but it wasn’t needed if you ask me.

Also why do they feel the need to pile on Jughead as a character? I know some people dislike him and Cole, but damn.. that character never gets anything good. His dad comes home and now  says he broke his heart by joining a gang- the same gang he was in for all of Jugheads life-  and is drinking again and making a point to show

jughead he is. I don’t know. Nothing is really entertaining to me the way season 1 was. 

[thefreeair]

Haha, the absurdity of Jughead being incensed that Cheryl made the guy who covered up her brother's murder clean up a milkshake. And then he's indignant that Father-of-the-year who couldn't keep it together to notice his kid was homeless a few months back was a King (a KING) of some podunk gang like that's something to be proud of. I miss Season 1 when everybody knew FP was a dirtbag and not the long-suffering hero they're trying to pitch him as. My disbelief won't suspend that far, but tell you what, if he wants to make himself useful he can start a sexy affair with Alice Cooper. That I'd buy.

While we're at it, I'm in for Betty and Archie. They've had very little meaningful interaction for kids who are supposed to be best friends and I'm curious to see how they interact emotionally now that we have some remove from the peak dumbass version of Archie from the pilot. Come at me, controversial ship. I'm here for that drama. 

[truthaboutluv]

8 hours ago, Snookums said:

While the breakups were handled realistically enough--as much as you can expect from this show--and acted well, I'm getting weary from the whole "happy couples equal boredom" formula. Relationship dramas don't have to be endless friction and makeup/breakup cycles, especially when they're fabricated out of thin air. Archie and Ronnie were good together! A bit R rated but at least they seemed to have some connection beyond sex. Archie

This so much. I've been saying this forever. There is nothing new, different or novel about doing long drawn out, constant angst and drama with a popular pair. Hell, as soon as I realized how popular Betty/Jughead became, my thought was, "so I wonder how many ways the writers will mess with them next season".

It's been done a thousand times as has the romantic musical chairs on a teen show. There is nothing new and different to see here in my opinion. And kudos to others' optimism but I don't buy that this will facilitate any type of reset and slow build of Betty and Jughead's relationship.

Everything about the show screams writing for convenient's sake. That is, just throw whatever fits whatever motivation they have at that time. In my opinion when they need Betty/Jughead back together it'll be just as rushed and half-assed as everything else.

 

Quote

While we're at it, I'm in for Betty and Archie. They've had very little meaningful interaction for kids who are supposed to be best friends and I'm curious to see how they interact emotionally now that we have some remove from the peak dumbass version of Archie from the pilot. Come at me, controversial ship. I'm here for that drama.

Since when did Betty/Archie become a controversial ship? From day one, there have been purists of the comics who are adamant that a show based on the Archie comics must have the infamous Betty/Archie/Veronica triangle.

Yes, no doubt Betty and Jughead are popular but I see a lot of comments about Betty/Archie online. My issue is that so much of it seems less about the specific characters in this series and more just, "that's how it is in the comics".

Edited December 7, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[AnimeMania]

Cheryl + Josie = Chesie

Goodbye Arronica, Hello Betchie!

I wonder who the guys were in the picture that killed the Riverdale Reaper? I wonder if they will be important?

[jay741982]

7 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

I'm probably in the minority, but I thought the whole dance scene was pretty tame compared to the buildup it was given.  I was disappointed that Alice didn't jump up on stage and put a stop to it.

Josie seems to be finally waking up about Cheryl.  At least twice tonight, she gave her the "bitch, crazy"  side eye.

I figure Barchie was probably the original intended end game (isn't that how it is in the comics?), but the show wasn't expecting Bughead to be as popular as they have become.

Nah in the comics mostly Archie is a flip flopping jerk who uuses as a backup walks all over her bounces between Her and Veronica it's gross 

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. people need to explain me why they want Betty and Archie. In the show he’s awful. As a guy, he’s the worst. He’s not a good boyfriend and he had decent moments with Veronica sometimes but for the most part he was a terrible boyfriend to anyone he dated. So for me since this is my only way of knowing him, it’s not good.

I didn’t read comics but from my bare minimum, he’s just as awful in the comics so I don’t get what this big nostalgia is for that. Why would people want him to be able to flip flop between Betty and Veronica here too? I don’t get it. I also don’t get how through all this bs in the comics Veronica and Betty are supposedly bffs, yet always seem to be competitive with Archie. I don’t want that in the show. I think that’s what bothers me the most is that somehow I fear the Barchie

element is going to ruin the show.

 

As I said previously.. I think I’m going to be done with the show. I’m not real interested in watching next week which looks like Archie and Betty are sleuthing which used to be a Jughead and Betty thing and that annoys. And I’m just bot

real interested in what else might happen this season.

Edited December 7, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[absnow54]

I'm probably in the minority, but I thought the whole dance scene was pretty tame compared to the buildup it was given. I was disappointed that Alice didn't jump up on stage and put a stop to it.

The weirdest part of that scene was that FP was halfway through his speech before Alice reacted to the fact that her daughter, who was standing right next to her, was wearing nothing but lingerie and a leather jacket. It was cool to see Serpant!Alice, but it threw the entire pacing of that scene off.

[AdorkableSars]

9 hours ago, Snookums said:

So, chuck HP onto the "terrible parent who blames their kid for his own choices" pile of Serpent jackets. That whole ersatz Godfather scene where he's all "How dare you, a terrified child abandoned by everyone, believe a lawyer who told you I was beaten up in prison? This is all your fault! Forehead smooch! Now, where's Alice? She and I have to set the entire bar on fire with our chemistry and also I'm drinking again!" was just...

Just, fuck this. I get the adults have to be a mix of crazy and oblivious so that the kids can get away with their outrageous antics but seriously, how are any of these sixteen year olds functional in any way? Cheryl is at least honest in being off the chain crazy and saying so; although they decided to make her a stalker out of nowhere so she's not even really attached to the story except when she's shoving her milkshake glass onto the floor.

 

9 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Also why do they feel the need to pile on Jughead as a character? I know some people dislike him and Cole, but damn.. that character never gets anything good. His dad comes home and now  says he broke his heart by joining a gang- the same gang he was in for all of Jugheads life-  and is drinking again and making a point to show

jughead he is. I don’t know. Nothing is really entertaining to me the way season 1 was. 

Ughhhhhh.......this just made me sad for Jughead all over again. Everyone says that FP is a great dad who obviously cares about Jughead and his well-being, and to an extent, that is true. But then, there's also FP being an alcoholic gang leader, who's lifestyle made Jughead decide that being homeless was better than being at home. This FP behaviour also drove away Jughead's mom and sister. Any chance he had at the semblance of a normal life was screwed with all of FP's doings. And then this episode, where FP basically told Jughead that it was his fault that FP was back with the Serpents. And made eye contact while taking his stupid shot. As if to say "look what you made me do". And great point about FP's hypocrisy regarding Jughead joining the Serpents. The whole reason Jughead did it was to try and calm them down from turning into bomb-planting and violent and (stupider) imbeciles because their leader/Jughead's father (one FP Jones) was in PRISON. This is what propelled Jughead to join the gang. So basically, it was FP's doing, yet he turns the tables on Jughead. No. NO!!!! 

 

Quote

While the breakups were handled realistically enough--as much as you can expect from this show--and acted well, I'm getting weary from the whole "happy couples equal boredom" formula. Relationship dramas don't have to be endless friction and makeup/breakup cycles, especially when they're fabricated out of thin air. Archie and Ronnie were good together! A bit R rated but at least they seemed to have some connection beyond sex. Archie is actually interesting when he's interwoven with another character, not some standalone hero. Trust chemistry when it happens along, writers!

And that goes double for Betty and Jug. The "star crossed lovers" thing doesn't need this kind of leveling up. It especially doesn't need leveling up with stripping. A minor stripping. IN A BAR.

Word. Cory and Topanga on Boy Meets World - example of a teenage relationship that actually stood the test of time, and got through their troubles and tribulations by communicating like normal people and working through it. And ended up married with a family, still going strong years later. Granted, they didn't have criminal parents, Black Hoods, dead siblings, gang initiations, etc. to deal with. And also granted, that was a sitcom. But ALSO, how much shit can these high school kids go through? Can they have anything nice, ever?

[WhosThatGirl]

38 minutes ago, AdorkableSars said:

 

Ughhhhhh.......this just made me sad for Jughead all over again. Everyone says that FP is a great dad who obviously cares about Jughead and his well-being, and to an extent, that is true. But then, there's also FP being an alcoholic gang leader, who's lifestyle made Jughead decide that being homeless was better than being at home. This FP behaviour also drove away Jughead's mom and sister. Any chance he had at the semblance of a normal life was screwed with all of FP's doings. And then this episode, where FP basically told Jughead that it was his fault that FP was back with the Serpents. And made eye contact while taking his stupid shot. As if to say "look what you made me do". And great point about FP's hypocrisy regarding Jughead joining the Serpents. The whole reason Jughead did it was to try and calm them down from turning into bomb-planting and violent and (stupider) imbeciles because their leader/Jughead's father (one FP Jones) was in PRISON. This is what propelled Jughead to join the gang. So basically, it was FP's doing, yet he turns the tables on Jughead. No. NO!!!! 

 

Word. Cory and Topanga on Boy Meets World - example of a teenage relationship that actually stood the test of time, and got through their troubles and tribulations by communicating like normal people and working through it. And ended up married with a family, still going strong years later. Granted, they didn't have criminal parents, Black Hoods, dead siblings, gang initiations, etc. to deal with. And also granted, that was a sitcom. But ALSO, how much shit can these high school kids go through? Can they have anything nice, ever?

Short answer; No. not this season anyway. 

Wasnt this show kind of fun last season? I remember it being dramatic but also a little fun. Am I misremembering it? Because everything this season is way too dark and way too uncomfortable and I’m not here for that anymore. 

[maxineofarc]

Okay but at least can we all agree that Alice was awesome this episode?

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, maxineofarc said:

Okay but at least can we all agree that Alice was awesome this episode?

I me yeah. Although I wish she had stopped Betty’s dance. I think I keep finding it uncomfortable the more I think about it because she was doing it in front of a group of older men. I just don’t get why the show felt the need to do it; it may have been tame but not my thing.

[Jeddah]

14 minutes ago, maxineofarc said:

Okay but at least can we all agree that Alice was awesome this episode?

I agree! I’m sad that Betty and Jughead broke up, but I now ship the other Cooper/Jones. Alice and FP need to happen.

Overall, Alice is so much more entertaining this season.

 

8 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I me yeah. Although I wish she had stopped Betty’s dance. I think I keep finding it uncomfortable the more I think about it because she was doing it in front of a group of older men. I just don’t get why the show felt the need to do it; it may have been tame but not my thing.

I agree with this too! It really was gross. It seemed out of character that Alice didn’t shut that down immediately.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Jeddah

[WhosThatGirl]

I just don’t understand the point of it. I know the actors themselves are above the age of 18, but even if people call the dance tame, it really was  sexualizinga 16 year old girl in a group of grown men. No matter what, that’s what happened. And look I know Archie and Veronica have sex all the time but something about that and this scene felt way different.

I really didn’t like it and I don’t think I’m a prude- I watch a lot of adult type shows on hbo, showtime, Netflix with plenty of sex scenes you know, but something about this scene really put me off. I don’t know why. It just really bothers me. I don’t know what the show was going for there. 

[kmcarte]

Oh man, this episode.  Why does this show distance itself from reality so hard? I spend half the tie shrieking at the tv, and not in the good way.

What janitor doesn’t knock?!  I guess we’re to assume he was creeping at the door and interrupted to protect Josie’s virtue.

Archie and Veronica –‘OMG there were three children!! This changes everything!!’ yeah guys, which obviously is not news to the people that were investigating the crime, and probably not news to anyone investigating the current crime.  It seems more likely that black hood is the guy that got dragged of into the woods by mob justice.

How did FP and Jug get another bike? those aren't cheap, and Jug was riding FPs while he was in jail.

FP: 'then leave him! ...at home'  that was so great.

I love/hate how Alice has to be the center of attention in every room, regardless of what said room is/who is in it. 

Man, Archie is a toxic little crybaby, he went from ‘it’s okay no pressure, V.’ to ‘that is if your cold dead heart can love anything’ in the space of literally two seconds. 

Betty's dance? Good god, your mom is there, your boyfriend's dad is there!

So much cringing! All the cringing that exists.  I may never watch again, due to the second hand embarrassment.  

Seriously, Skeet out acts so many of his costars, like, the majority of them.

And Betty and Jug are broken up again.  Honestly, I think both of their break ups come down to Betty’s hard core type A personality and inability to stay out of things.  She is so much her mother…And not to be too harsh, but good lord Betty, actions have consequences.  You can’t just run over everyone all the time.

29 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I me yeah. Although I wish she had stopped Betty’s dance. I think I keep finding it uncomfortable the more I think about it because she was doing it in front of a group of older men. I just don’t get why the show felt the need to do it; it may have been tame but not my thing.

I think we were supossed to find it uncomfortable.  It was so quiet when she started stripping.  No whistling, or hoots from the crowd (on a similar note, I will be forever disappointed that the serpents didn't hiss, instead of boo when Veronica and Archie left the stage.) and when she was done, dead silence.  FP had to make them cheer for her. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by kmcarte

[truthaboutluv]

I know the episodes were obviously filmed weeks in advance so all the Hollywood sexual assault scandal may not have snowballed yet but given the current climate, (hell TIME Magazine just named the people who came forward as Person of the Year), yeah it definitely makes the writers seem incredibly tone deaf. Not only is it never a good idea for some teenage high school girl to be stripping in some dingy dive bar filled with guys old enough to be her father, again, given the current climate, it's REALLY not a good idea.

Especially for a show that's still technically viewed as a teen drama. And this is why I've maintained that the biggest issue Riverdale has is that the writers have no real clue what they want this show to be or what really makes it work. Like I said weeks ago, for whatever reason, they got into their head that the Jason murder mystery from last season was so awesome that the direction the show needed to go in was some over the top serial killer dark drama. And yeah, no. YMMV.

Edited December 7, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t know. I still think it’s a odd thing for this show to have done. But this whole episode was a thing and a lot more bothered me.  Not just the break up of Bighead(but that has more to do with this season as a whole and I can’t talk about it anymore) but FPS reaction to Jughead joining the Serpents, the show becoming too dark that now it’s bleeding into I can’t take it serious anymore, it’s beginning to feel like a chore to watch- which to me may be my own personal feelings. But normally this type of feeling doesn’t come way after 2 seasons but I digress. 

22 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I know the episodes were obviously filmed weeks in advance so all the Hollywood sexual assault scandal may not have snowballed yet but given the current climate, (hell TIME Magazine just named the people who came forward as Person of the Year), yeah it definitely makes the writers seem incredibly tone deaf. Not only is it never a good idea for some teenage high school girl to be stripping in some dingy dive bar filled with guys old enough to be her father, again, given the current climate, it's REALLY not a good idea. Especially for a show that's still technically viewed as a teen drama. And this is why I've maintained that the biggest issue Riverdale has is that the writers have no real clue what they want this show to be or what really makes it work. Like I said weeks ago, for whatever reason, they got into their head that the Jason murder mystery from last season was so awesome that the direction the show needed to go in was some over the top serial killer dark drama. And yeah, no. YMMV.

Yeah it’s super gross, given where we are. And yes while this was shot a while ago probably, what writer thought a teenage girl stripping in front of grown men was a good idea? Also I remember LR tweeting we were going to see Betty in a way we’ve never knew we would want. Well sorry Lili I like you but I would have preferred not to have that scene. 

It makes me uncomfortable and the sexy scenes between Archie and Veronica never have maybe because both are teens and it feels somewhat normal. This stripping scene was probably the most uncomfortable thing I’ve ever seen on a tv show. Like.. I’m flabbergasted they even thought it was a good idea. And yes we were probably supposed to feel

Uncomfortable I agree but.. it was bad. 

Also yeah.. this show is still

considered a teen drama right? I’m not so sure anymore. I feel like they’ve never wanted to be considered one. Maybe last season they were cool with it and because of that, they got all these accolades, they cleaned up at the teen choice awards, before this season they got the ew cover battle, and a Teen Vogue cover, but a part of me feels like when the show started to get noticed more, it wanted to be considered less of a teen show. It didn’t want to be considered the new pretty little liars. And I get that. I do. But it is a show about teens primary and putting them in adult situations like this to me is just making me as an adult not want to watch. And yes even if the reactions of everybody in the room was as uncomfortable as us viewers I still feel like this scene was a bad idea.

eta: I miss the fun quirky gothic comedy this show was in season 1, the closest episode we have had to that was probably the drag race episode. And some of episode 2 when they were saving the diner. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[Misty79]

9 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I wonder who the guys were in the picture that killed the Riverdale Reaper? I wonder if they will be important?

My money is one of them being Hal, he's the right age. All season I've thought Hal is the BH. He's a pretty zealous dude after all (see his reaction to Polly and Jason). 

I liked the end of this episode. I'm ready for Betty and Archie and I hope they go there rather than it being yet another tease. I grew up reading Archie comics and shipping those two so I have a strong underlying bias. It pleases my comic book shipper heart. Beyond the very beginning the Bughead thing has never really appealed. 

So they're going there with Cheryl having a crush on Josie. Possessive much? My guess is that all blows up really soon and it's a lead in to an eventual Cheryl and Toni hookup, which I'm down for. 

I agree that the Betty dance scene was really awkward to watch. I think it was meant to be awkward, but still. I actually looked away for most of it!

Edited December 7, 2017 by Misty79

[Dobian]

Uh show, I know these actors are in their early 20s but they're playing 16 years olds...who have wild sex in showers and in front of fireplaces, and sing in clubs in their lingerie.  Has Hollywood completely lost its mind?

[WhosThatGirl]

9 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Uh show, I know these actors are in their early 20s but they're playing 16 years olds...who have wild sex in showers and in front of fireplaces, and sing in clubs in their lingerie.  Has Hollywood completely lost its mind?

Yup. I have never had a problem with the Varchie sex scenes- just that the show only has them doing that all the time- but the stripper pole singing scene was the most uncomfortable thing, but I wrote

paragraphs about it earlier today that you can read. I just don’t understand any part of it. I mean.. yeah the actors are older than the characters they play but that scene was.. as I have said many times really uncomfortable. I don’t know.

Im surprised I haven’t seen back lash from it yet. Other teen dramas have done far less uncomfortable scenes and gotten issues for it like when Glee did a “first time” episode and the day after The View talked about it because people complained. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

Quote

I wonder who the guys were in the picture that killed the Riverdale Reaper?

Good question! The janitor said they never "faced justice," and the case never closed, so they clearly got away with it. I wonder if the BH is a kid of one of them, or drawing inspiration from them?

Quote

I think we were supposed to find it uncomfortable.  It was so quiet when she started stripping.  No whistling, or hoots from the crowd (on a similar note, I will be forever disappointed that the serpents didn't hiss, instead of boo when Veronica and Archie left the stage.) and when she was done, dead silence.  FP had to make them cheer for her. 

All this is true, and FP leaping up to cover her with his jacket, without leering, seemed to signal that we as the viewing audience weren't expected to be 100% behind the strip tease. And as I said before, Lili was at least given as scene (at home in her bedroom when she's getting ready) where she's contemplating being less of a good girl/Nancy Drew and going more physical and seductive--her turn last year as Dark Betty and having Alice for a mom gave her a background for that. 

And the dance itself wasn't performed "professionally." She didn't start twirling on the pole or doing splits; in fact she almost looked like she was in a fugue state. If Archie and Veronica hadn't bugged out of their duet I wonder if she would have done it at all. So I think it was acted in the correct way--how a Type A Good Girl, who wants desperately to be less good, would do that.

But again, I can't get totally beyond the fact that this underage young woman was doing this in a seedy bar, in front of over a hundred people, many of whom were strange men old enough to be her father, and more importantly in front of her mother and her boyfriend's father. The latter of whom had to cover her up and start the clapping from a group who were clearly thinking oh, man, we really need to contemplate our life choices and how we recruit members. 

Plus, JUGHEAD is watching her do this (in front of the gang members and his father) and while I am deeply relieved they didn't have him slut shame her--that really would have been out of character for him--he got all wound up about how "he's" dragging Betty down and refusing to listen when she correctly points out that it isn't his decision to make. She doesn't want to lose him and instead of trying to drag him away she's willing to follow and support him. Now, I've got some issues with that as well (Sixteen year old girls of the world, do not peel off in front of dozens of horny drunken bikers in a bar to show your SO how much you've got his back) but nobody made her do it. Toni called the whole thing sexist and misogynistic, for heaven's sake. 

So you've got this whole young woman's Long Day's Journey Into Night character arc all bent to serve the latest round of breaking up between two high schoolers and it was totally unnecessary. That's the problem with shows like Riverdale that are designed around drama and heightened reality; they start to overload on said drama, and suddenly you've got people that can't so much as make a sandwich or attend English class without having it loaded down with meaning and portent. The characters are solid, the actual plot is fun and twisty, but the nuts and bolts are becoming clogged with maple syrup.

[WhosThatGirl]

See I’m starting to think all this heightens drama is making the plot less fun for me. It’s why I think I’m bailing out next week for sure. I probably won’t even come in to check you guys and your posts(unless you guys tag/mention message me in something you think I might enjoy). And maybe possibly forever. This episode was painful to watch. I know some people liked it and yes the acting was great but everything that happened was really depressing and I’m kind of over watching this show get more and more depressing.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, Snookums said:

So you've got this whole young woman's Long Day's Journey Into Night character arc all bent to serve the latest round of breaking up between two high schoolers and it was totally unnecessary. That's the problem with shows like Riverdale that are designed around drama and heightened reality; they start to overload on said drama, and suddenly you've got people that can't so much as make a sandwich or attend English class without having it loaded down with meaning and portent. The characters are solid, the actual plot is fun and twisty, but the nuts and bolts are becoming clogged with maple syrup.

Well said. That's what I've been saying. There were enough individual parts to organically create drama on the show and make it all work - the who shot Fred question, Veronica and her family's twisted dynamic and shadiness, Jughead's joining the Serpents, Cheryl being Cheryl, etc. All of those elements could have worked to create an interesting show but instead, the writers have taken the elements and added on a bunch of shit that's unnecessary. Not to mention their speeding through everything like the show's on crack or they forgot that they have 22 episodes to work with this season instead of 13.

Everything seems so rushed and more importantly heavy handed. I think that's the biggest issue. It's not enough that Jughead stupidly joins a gang and that naturally puts tension in his relationship with Betty - no, has to be beaten up as part of the initiation, throw in the shady lawyer, then Betty has to do some psuedo striptease to prove she's down with the snake or something. I mean come on. Same with the stupid Black Hood crap. It's not enough to have some mystery surrounding Fred's shooting, instead there's some creepy type serial killer who of course is also maybe possibly obsessed with Betty. It's just all too ridiculous and over the top. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Misty79]

8 minutes ago, Snookums said:

So I think it was acted in the correct way--how a Type A Good Girl, who wants desperately to be less good, would do that.

I think so too, and props to Lili Reinhart for half-saving this storyline. I was just reading the AV Club recap for this episode and I think the author identified the main issue with this scene for me - we're used to Betty being a total badass, the show's hero really, so seeing her reduced to playing Sandy to Jughead's Danny was disappointing. Yet I get that it's the sort of thing a teenage girl might do. And I thought the earlier shot of Betty looking in her mirror, trying to mentally prepare, looking for the girl who could strip and do a pole dance was well acted, because what I saw was someone with an enormous amount of self doubt. 

[paulvdb]

10 minutes ago, Snookums said:

Toni called the whole thing sexist and misogynistic, for heaven's sake.

Which reminds me of something I thought during the episode. How young was Toni when she joined the serpents? Do the serpents have middle school girls strip like that before they can join? Or is there a minimum age for joining the serpents?

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Well said. That's what I've been saying. There were enough individual parts to organically create drama on the show and make it all work - the who shot Fred question, Veronica and her family's twisted dynamic and shadiness, Jughead's joining the Serpents, Cheryl being Cheryl, etc. All of those elements could have worked to create an interesting show but instead, the writers have taken the elements and added on a bunch of shit that's unnecessary. Not to mention their speeding through everything like the show's on crack or they forgot that they have 22 episodes to work with this season instead of 13.

Everything seems so rushed and more importantly heavy handed. I think that's the biggest issue. It's not enough that Jughead stupidly joins a gang and that naturally puts tension in his relationship with Betty - no, has to be beaten up as part of the initiation, throw in the shady lawyer, then Betty has to do some psuedo striptease to prove she's down with the snake or something. I mean come on. Same with the stupid Black Hood crap. It's not enough to have some mystery surrounding Fred's shooting, instead there's some creepy type serial killer who of course is also maybe possibly obsessed with Betty. It's just all too ridiculous and over the top. 

This. They really have so much going on, not to mention they adding new characters left and right. 

I also keep needing to mention that a lot of the characters have class is over a 180 on themselves since season one. Like they’ve all changed personalities and it’s annoying because in timeline it’s only been like four weeks.

It doesn’t make sense, this season at all. Probably because as you said they seem to be rushing through plots and not giving anything a chance to breathe and settle. It really is ridiculous.

And also a lot of people say season one was rushed.. really? I thought it flowed quite well actually. Not like this at all. It’s making it hard for me to want to watch when I can’t get invested.

Plus I don’t know.. watching people be depressed every week is a lot. It’s like a mental torture hour every week and I don’t know. That’s why I can’t do it next week. 

[Mabinogia]

Are they trying to character assassinate the boys? Jughead the gang leader? WTeverlovingF? That is the single worst storyline imaginable. My heart broke for FP when he had to go back to the gang, and the drinking, to bail out his dumb as shit son. And Archie...you JUST told Veronica you loved her and then a day or two latter you're checking out Betty like she's the next window in the red light district.

Archie really is the worst character on the show right now. I'm pretty sure sex is all he cares about and he just hops from bed to bed looking for his next fix. Oooh, maybe they should have a storyline about how he's a sex addict and can't help himself.

The only good parts of this ep for me were everything with FP and Alice, both together and separate. FP's storyline is the reason I'm going to try to stick around. I really want to see him get out of that world. He deserves better. Let Jughead clean up his own mess.

And how did no one stop Betty's worlds lamest striptease? Oh, probably because it was just too pathetic they were all momentarily stunned.

I did like the stuff with the janitor. That was mildly interest.

Oh, and when did Cheryl become obsessed with Josie? It just feels like it came out of nowhere for this stalker storyline.